Lion: imap mailboxes being read as blank

[Brett C.]

I have a couple of gmail imap accounts.  In the list of mailboxes, the name of 
the accounts are read in the list of inboxes, however when I navigate to the 
bottom of the column of mailboxes to access the other folders, VoiceOver just 
says "blank collapsed" instead of the account name.  Is anyone else 
experiencing this?


Brett C.

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Re: performance issues in Mail being reported - wide spread?

[Shen]

Hello,
I am also experiencing sluggishness with Mail. Especially when I am arrowing up 
and down the messages table, sometimes it takes VoiceOver 2 seconds to respond. 
The sluggishness is not always there, but is most definitely noticeable.
I am also finding that the usual tab key is no longer working for me. It used 
to be that I can interact with the mailboxes, select the mailbox I want to 
read, press tab and go straight to the messages table. This is no longer the 
case. Also, when in the messages table, if I press tab on a message, I 
automatically go to the body of the message and VoiceOver starts reading. It's 
not doing that exactly anymore. Now it puts me in the message header first and 
reads that before the message content.
I know I can use VO-J to jump from messages table to message content. But who 
wants to keep hearing VoiceOver say "Interact with" blah blah blah.
I wish the tab key would still work. It was the best method to read messages.

On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:27 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> I am seeing some sluggishness.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Jeff Bishop wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>  
>> People on Twitter are reporting major sluggishness issues in Mail and other 
>> areas. Are others seeing this? I upgraded this morning but then had to go to 
>> work so will play later this evening. I am just curious what others are 
>> seeing pertaining to this?
>>  
>> Jeff
>>  
>> 
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Re: Turning off and on VO speech

[Georges Zaynoun]

I am wondering if there is a command from the keyboard to toggle speech 
on and off without using the trackpad.

Original message:

Hi,



Yup,


You can turn the trackpad commander off by holding down  control and  
option an placing 2 fingers on the trackpad and turning them counter clockwise.

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:31 AM, Cakes wrote:



Hi Ricardo and all,



Thanks for helping me out once again.  You guys are great!



Is there a hotkey for turning off and on the trackpad?  Great idea of course.



Johnny "Cakes" Chilelli



On 7/21/2011 12:25 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

Hi,


And you might want to just turn trackpad commander off when not using 
it to prevent accidental gestures.

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Cakes wrote:



Hi folks,



Help!


First of all, every once and a while I somehow mute VO by simply 
accidentally touching the track pad.  I think the way to unmute VO on a 
13" mbp is by hitting the fourth button from the top right corner of 
the keyboard.  Right?  But this time; and I think it happened one other 
time, I somehow shut off vO speech altogether.  Oh my!  Hitting cmd F5 
turned VO on but then it reported that VO speech is off.  Now I am 
unable to get VO to speak at all.  Any help is always appreciated.



Thanks,



Johnny



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Re: conversations in mail

[Shen]

I think you and I are having the same issue.
Although I specifically went to classic view.
I normally have all my messages sorted in ascending order, oldest at the top 
and newest at the bottom. When I expand a conversation, for some reason, all 
the messages in that conversation are sorted in descending order, newest at top 
and oldest at the bottom.
This is very confusing. In the previous Mail, it didn't do this.

On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> I believe there are shortcuts you might want to look into, such as 
> cmd-shift-k to select all messages in a particular conversation.  There are 
> others in the View menu under the select submenu.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
> 
>> Yea I see that now.  It just seems weird that you have to deal with each 
>> message individually and there is no way to see all messages at once easily. 
>>  Just have to get used to the new way of doing things.
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> By default, conversations are sorted in reverse chronological order, newest 
>>> message first.  You can change this in the View menu I believe.  I use left 
>>> and right arrow to open and close conversations.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
>>> 
 This whole conversation business in mail doesn't seem to make sense 
 anymore.  It used to be that when I hit enter on a conversation all the 
 messages would open up and I could just delete them one by one and here 
 the next message.  Now when I hit enter it just seems to read the last 
 one.  I know I can do vo+space and read each message individually, but 
 that seems like more of a pain.  am I missing something?  Guess I could go 
 back to classic layout, but would like to at least learn the new interface 
 since I'm sure that will be taken away at some point.
 
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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[James Malone]

Once I learn it a bit, I'll probably do a general overview, opinions
and thoughts. From what I'm hearing, it sounds great, but something
that will be a bit of a cakewalk. Also, don't forget that this really
is 10.7, and no updates have been posted yet. Still, we will see.

On 7/21/11, Austin Seraphin  wrote:
> Hi. I've just installed Lion on both my iMac and my MacBook Air. Of course
> things seem a little different, but I feel glad I upgraded. Over all
> VoiceOver seems more responsive, Safari too. It seems to load pages more
> quickly, and it has more accessibility options and improvements. For
> example, a friend invited me to Google Plus. I couldn't post a status under
> SL, but with Lion I can at least write something. True things still act a
> little odd, but it shows some sort of improvement. I also enjoy having
> Samantha.
>
> I do notice that in mail, it says "Misspelled" warnings when reading message
> text, I'd rather just get that when editing text. I'll post more as I think
> of it. All and all I say go for it!
>
>  - Austin
>
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>
>> Hi Donna,
>>
>> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile
>> for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate
>> the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of
>> pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just
>> press the letter H.
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bryan,
>>>
>>> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other
>>> languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>
 I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought
 to
 download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
 those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
 benefits?

 I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.

 What happens if I don't download it?

 Brian Miller

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Re: one bad thing I've found in mail

[Shen]

It looks like the only way to go to the top or bottom of the messages list is 
to use VO-Shift-Home and VO-Shift-End. It's too bad the jump command is no 
longer there.
I prefer to use the jump command because at least I would stay in the same 
column. Using VO-Shift-Home and End, you jump to the very beginning of the 
table, meaning column 1 row 1, and the very last column and row.
Also, in the mailboxes list, option up arrow and down arrow no longer lets me 
jump to the top and bottom of the list.


On Jul 20, 2011, at 7:11 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi Carolyn,
> 
> Yeah, that's why I never use VO-lock. :)
> 
> Don't be too envious, so far, I'm not enamored.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:49 PM, carolyn Haas wrote:
> 
>> Hey c'mon Donna, that's not what i've heard. Jus teasing you.:)
>> I know Melissa always tells me to employ the VO-lock.  Then I forget it's on 
>> and get myself all messed up because nothing works normally until it's 
>> unlocked again.
>> It's interesting to be able to stand by and be just a little envious as 
>> everyone dives in and I wait for  financial skies to clear a little. (HMM, 
>> may be into bears by that time.:)
>> 
>> Take care.
>> 
>> Carolyn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, but that requires pressing fifty gazillion keys.  I don't have that 
>>> many fingers.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:01 PM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>>> 
 VO+home and VO+end will do that. 
 
 
 
 In the Journey, 
 
 Ron
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I'm sad to say that the Option Down arrow command that used to move 
> you to the top and bottom of the message list is now gone. (sigh)
> Best,
> Donna
> 
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Re: trying to download lion?

I was told by a rep in the store that I would get an email.  What the rep 
didn't tell me is that I had to go to 
apple.com/macosx/uptodate
Notice the spelling.  Once on this page you will need to fill in a form that 
will ask you for the date you bought your mac, the serial number, and your 
apple ID and password.  ONce you do this, and you meet the qualifications, it 
will display your redemption code, as well as emailing it to you.  As for 
downloading it without installing, just cancel installation once the down load 
is complete, and then go find the proper file and burn it to disk.  I did this 
as well as saving it to another external hard drive.  HTH Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:58 AM, Cakes wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I got my new mbp 13: about three weeks ago.  I was told by a couple of Apple 
> reps on the 1-800-My Apple line that lion was not yet released. But you guys 
> obviously got it.  When was it released?  I should be able to get it free 
> right?  Also, can it be downloaded to your MacBook and not installed yet?  
> Any special download instructions for me to know?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Johnny
> 
> On 7/20/2011 6:41 PM, matthew Dyer wrote:
>> CMD+a will take you to the apps folder.  HTH.
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> P.s.  I have yet to pertchus lion as I do not have the funs a the moment.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Tammy wrote:
>> 
>>> What’s the best way to get to the aps folder?  It’s in the doc but it 
>>> appears you can’t get there via that shortcut.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> \Tammy
>>> From: Zachary Kline
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:41 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: trying to download lion?
>>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> THe installer is put in the Applications folder, but after it is used to 
>>> install the system it self-destructs.  To prevent this you can quit it 
>>> initially with cmd-q, and you'll find it in there.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>> 
 Has anyone yet been able to figure out where in the heck the app store 
 actually puts the installer for Lion?  What if I wanted to back the 
 installer up on a dvd?  Is the installer not a .app file etc?
 
 Chris
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
> Hi Dona,
> Yes, this is the what happens.  You can monitor the progress of the 
> download via the purchases button in the toolbar.  Also, the installer 
> will open automatically when the download finishes.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:20 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> So I went to the app store, clicked to purchase Lion, and clicked 
>> Confirm Purchase.  It now says "Installing Lion", but nothing else is 
>> happening.  The downloads folder hasn't opened, and I'm still on the 
>> page with the info about Lion.  It's been like this for about five 
>> minutes.  Is this what should be happening?  If not, any suggestions for 
>> next steps?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Midi playback in lion

[Missy Hoppe]

Hello, all! Like many of you, I ended up installing Lion yesterday. Everything 
went surprisingly smoothly, and on the whole,
I don't regret the update at all. I switched mail to the classic view for now, 
and once things slow down a bit on this list,
I will probably transfer my membership to my gmail address so that I can get a 
bit of practice using apple mail. I'm writing
this on the PC, though, so that if I get a response, I'll be able to find and 
archive it a bit more easily. Anyway, I
digress.
So far, in my admittedly limited playing around with Lion, I'm very impressed. 
Boot time seems a bit slower than it used to
be, and I really wish there was a way to regain the space created by that 
recovery partician, but neither of those things are
particularly bothering me at this point. I am, however, having 1 frustrating 
problem which is slightly bizarre, and is
probably concerning me a lot more than it really should.
I still enjoy listening to midi files quite often. I don't play a keyboard, but 
I used to have fun changing instruments in
midis to make them sound better. I understand that that particular hobby isn't 
an option as there is probably no affordible
software out there that will let me do what I want, but that's not important 
right now. When I first got my macbook in May, I
learned that I could use quicklook and/or quicktime 7 to play midis. I was 
very, very impressed with the way midis played on
the mac; they sounded better than they did on my PC. Unfortunately, this is no 
longer the case under Lion. I have no idea
what changed, but midi volume is very quiet. It almost sounds as though the 
files are being played through non-existent rear
speakers or something. It's hard to explain, but it's almost like the volume is 
being kept low by some kind of AGC leveling
software. Every time a note tries to play normally, it quickly fades away. I 
think the only way to fully appreciate the
problem is to hear it in person. I've checked volume everywhere, and it's all 
set to 100 percent so far as I can tell. This
problem doesn't occur when playing mp3 files or anything else so far as I can 
tell, which makes it all the more baffling. I
tried going into audio midi configuration in the utilities apps, but I only got 
confused, and VO crashed a couple of times.
So, if anyone has any ideas what might be happening, I'd really appreciate some 
help with this. I'm not saying the problem is
bad enough that I'd go back to snow leopard to fix it, but so far, it's the 
only disappointment that I've found with Lion.
As I said, any assistance you can provide would be extremely appreciated. Thank 
you very much for your time, and I hope that
everyone is having a wonderful day!
Missy

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<>

Re: conversations in mail

YOu have to go change it in preferences, once you do this it will be the way 
you like it.
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:37 AM, Shen wrote:

> I think you and I are having the same issue.
> Although I specifically went to classic view.
> I normally have all my messages sorted in ascending order, oldest at the top 
> and newest at the bottom. When I expand a conversation, for some reason, all 
> the messages in that conversation are sorted in descending order, newest at 
> top and oldest at the bottom.
> This is very confusing. In the previous Mail, it didn't do this.
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> I believe there are shortcuts you might want to look into, such as 
>> cmd-shift-k to select all messages in a particular conversation.  There are 
>> others in the View menu under the select submenu.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
>> 
>>> Yea I see that now.  It just seems weird that you have to deal with each 
>>> message individually and there is no way to see all messages at once 
>>> easily.  Just have to get used to the new way of doing things.
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Chris,
 By default, conversations are sorted in reverse chronological order, 
 newest message first.  You can change this in the View menu I believe.  I 
 use left and right arrow to open and close conversations.
 Hope this helps,
 Zack.
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Chris Westbrook wrote:
 
> This whole conversation business in mail doesn't seem to make sense 
> anymore.  It used to be that when I hit enter on a conversation all the 
> messages would open up and I could just delete them one by one and here 
> the next message.  Now when I hit enter it just seems to read the last 
> one.  I know I can do vo+space and read each message individually, but 
> that seems like more of a pain.  am I missing something?  Guess I could 
> go back to classic layout, but would like to at least learn the new 
> interface since I'm sure that will be taken away at some point.
> 
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VMWare Fusion and Lion

[Emilio S. Hernandez]

Hello everyone,

Enjoying the lion discussion so far.
Does anyone happen to know if VMWare works with lion?

Thanks

Sent from Emilio's iPhone.

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What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make it go away?

[Missy Hoppe]

Hello, all. I completely forgot about the 1 other thing that's frustrating me 
with regards to lion. I suspect this might be
part of what's slowing down boot-up times, but could be totally wrong about 
that, of course. Anyway, when the mac first
starts up, I'm in this thing that says com.apple.doc.extra has no windows. I 
don't know what it is, but command-tab takes me
back to the finder. Is there any way to permenantly get rid of this thing, 
whatever it is?
Also, I haven't noticed any issues with mail at all; have played with it a bit, 
and it works just fine. So, apart from the
problem with midi I wrote in about earlier, and this com.apple.doc.extra thing, 
I'm over all satisfied with lion, but am
happy to know that I've got sl backed up on my external hard drive, just in 
case things get too weird. As always, thank you
very much for your time, and I hope that everyone is having a great day!
Missy
 

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<>

Mail Impressions in Lion

[Zachary Kline]

Hi All,
I wanted to give my impressions of the new OS X Mail, which I'm slowly coming 
to grips with.  I've decided to force myself to use it in the new layout, and 
have actually had some success with it.
To begin with, the VoiceOver Getting started guide suggests using it with the 
VO cursor, and I have to agree.  Doing it this way seems to be quite fast, and 
is working quite well for me.  You can jump quickly between the table of 
messages and the message proper with vo-j.
Conversations can either be expanded or not, depending on whether you need to 
work with the individual messages in them.  By default it seems the focus is on 
the first unread message of every conversation, and they are displayed in 
reverse-chronological order, which makes sense to me as you're likely to be 
concerned with the recent messages over the older ones.
Attachments work pretty much as they always have.  You'll find a popup button 
in the message headers allowing you to save them, and a Quick-look button 
allowing you to preview them.  This all requires the VO cursor for navigation, 
of course, but thus far I've had no real problems with it and in fact it is 
quite similar to how I used mail in SL.
I hope you all give the new Mail a chance to work as intended before 
immediately jumping into the classic layout, as effective as that still is.
Best,
Zack.

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RE: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make it go away?

[Daniel Miller]

Missy,

 

I don't know what it is either, but it's really really annoying. Also, has
anyone noticed that VO randomly won't tell you when it's on, and you have to
press CMD-tab to get to the Finder before it will start speaking? I emailed
apple accessibility yesterday, but haven't heard anything back from them.
Once I do, I'l post the response on this list since I felt there were some
concerns that needed to be addressed.

Also, I know this is straying off the subject, but has anyone noticed slow
response times with VO and iTunes 10.4?

 

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Missy Hoppe
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make
it go away?

 

Hello, all. I completely forgot about the 1 other thing that's frustrating
me with regards to lion. I suspect this might be part of what's slowing down
boot-up times, but could be totally wrong about that, of course. Anyway,
when the mac first starts up, I'm in this thing that says
com.apple.doc.extra has no windows. I don't know what it is, but command-tab
takes me back to the finder. Is there any way to permenantly get rid of this
thing, whatever it is?

Also, I haven't noticed any issues with mail at all; have played with it a
bit, and it works just fine. So, apart from the problem with midi I wrote in
about earlier, and this com.apple.doc.extra thing, I'm over all satisfied
with lion, but am happy to know that I've got sl backed up on my external
hard drive, just in case things get too weird. As always, thank you very
much for your time, and I hope that everyone is having a great day!

Missy

 

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<>

Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Donna Goodin]

Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my mind. 
 The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi Donna,
> 
> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile for 
> individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate the web 
> with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of pressing VO 
> command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just press the 
> letter H.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bryan,
>> 
>> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other 
>> languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought to
>>> download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
>>> those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
>>> benefits?  
>>> 
>>> I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
>>> 
>>> What happens if I don't download it?
>>> 
>>> Brian Miller
>>> 
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Re: Am I crazy, or is there now no way to view an attachment in mail?

[Donna Goodin]

Did that. *grin*
Donna
On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi donna,
> 
> Are you using standard Mail or classic?  You might want to revert to the 
> classic view.  It might give you less trouble.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 11:29 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> OK, so I have another gripe with the new mail.  It appears that there is no 
>> way to view a pdf other than Quicklook.  The context menu is no longer 
>> there, and the only way I can open a PDF is with quick look.  There is no 
>> other option for opening a PDF attachment.
>> 
>> I hate to be a naysayer, but for those of you who have not yet upgraded, 
>> stick with SL.  I'm actually thinking about restoring my SL  backup, I 
>> dislike Lion so much at this point.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
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sleepless night with activities

[Yuma Decaux]

Hey all,

Jumping in here, cuz i'm in the middle of configuring all activities for all my 
applications in a logical fashion, and i have to admit that though it's a 
daunting task, i'm utterly grateful for the amount of time saving it's going to 
entail once all my custom gestures, shortcuts and activities with all their 
settings are made.

Only hope here is that the settings don't pop every now and then like they used 
to in SL.


Anyway, need more coffee :)


Best regaerds,

Yuma 


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Re: sleepless night with activities

[Dan]

Hello Yuma,
After you get it all done, please let us know how the different activities work 
and if you do or don't loose the settings. I started to play around with 2 
activities that I now have set and so far, so good. In a few days, if things 
don't change or I lose my settings, I'll really get in to this and hopefully 
make some really cool VoiceOver environments.

Dan

On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:54 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> Jumping in here, cuz i'm in the middle of configuring all activities for all 
> my applications in a logical fashion, and i have to admit that though it's a 
> daunting task, i'm utterly grateful for the amount of time saving it's going 
> to entail once all my custom gestures, shortcuts and activities with all 
> their settings are made.
> 
> Only hope here is that the settings don't pop every now and then like they 
> used to in SL.
> 
> 
> Anyway, need more coffee :)
> 
> 
> Best regaerds,
> 
> Yuma 
> 
> 
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Re: Mail Impressions in Lion

[David Taylor]

Hi,

I'm playing with the new layout too. I just use Quick Nav a lot more than I 
used to in mail. I wonder if quite a few of the changes will make me default to 
having quick nav switched on most of the time now. I certainly like the way the 
preview is working for me as there are quite a few messages I would probably 
have opened before that I am not doing now.

Cheers
Dave

On 21 Jul 2011, at 11:56, Zachary Kline wrote:

> Hi All,
> I wanted to give my impressions of the new OS X Mail, which I'm slowly coming 
> to grips with.  I've decided to force myself to use it in the new layout, and 
> have actually had some success with it.
> To begin with, the VoiceOver Getting started guide suggests using it with the 
> VO cursor, and I have to agree.  Doing it this way seems to be quite fast, 
> and is working quite well for me.  You can jump quickly between the table of 
> messages and the message proper with vo-j.
> Conversations can either be expanded or not, depending on whether you need to 
> work with the individual messages in them.  By default it seems the focus is 
> on the first unread message of every conversation, and they are displayed in 
> reverse-chronological order, which makes sense to me as you're likely to be 
> concerned with the recent messages over the older ones.
> Attachments work pretty much as they always have.  You'll find a popup button 
> in the message headers allowing you to save them, and a Quick-look button 
> allowing you to preview them.  This all requires the VO cursor for 
> navigation, of course, but thus far I've had no real problems with it and in 
> fact it is quite similar to how I used mail in SL.
> I hope you all give the new Mail a chance to work as intended before 
> immediately jumping into the classic layout, as effective as that still is.
> Best,
> Zack.
> 
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Re: Turning off and on VO speech

[Mark BurningHawk Baxter]

That "fourth from the right button on the keyboard," is also and more generally 
known as F10. It's a toggle that's native to OS10, that is, it mutes 
*EVERYTHING* from the sound card, including VO, Itunes, whatever.  Hitting it 
again un-mutes it.  Just wanted to chime in with that detail in case it hasn't 
been repeated ad nauseum yet. G'day.


 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
 • My home page:
 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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Re: safari question in lion

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I don't think so.  They've seemed to totally revamp the downloads window, 
and frankly, I don't exactly like what they've done with it.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kimberly thurman" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: safari question in lion


Doesn't command/option/L while in Safari to get to the downloads list work 
in Lion?  I haven't updated yet.  I'm taking the wait and see approach. 
:)

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:

To get to the downloads in Safari, go to the Google search box with 
Cmd-Option-f then VO-Right arrow once and you're on the Downloads button.


Cheers,

Anne


On 20 Jul 2011, at 21:53, chad baker wrote:

hi does anyone know where the download progress is in safari when 
downloading something

can't find it
thanks

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Re: sleepless night with activities

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

Why not just export your settings and save them somewhere?
On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Dan wrote:

> Hello Yuma,
> After you get it all done, please let us know how the different activities 
> work and if you do or don't loose the settings. I started to play around with 
> 2 activities that I now have set and so far, so good. In a few days, if 
> things don't change or I lose my settings, I'll really get in to this and 
> hopefully make some really cool VoiceOver environments.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:54 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote:
> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Jumping in here, cuz i'm in the middle of configuring all activities for all 
>> my applications in a logical fashion, and i have to admit that though it's a 
>> daunting task, i'm utterly grateful for the amount of time saving it's going 
>> to entail once all my custom gestures, shortcuts and activities with all 
>> their settings are made.
>> 
>> Only hope here is that the settings don't pop every now and then like they 
>> used to in SL.
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, need more coffee :)
>> 
>> 
>> Best regaerds,
>> 
>> Yuma 
>> 
>> 
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Re: safari question in lion

[Ricardo Walker]

Right,

Now downloads is like a pop up.  When your downloading something, stop 
interacting with the html content and go to the toolbar and interact.  You will 
find the download button in here.  Press it and the familiar downloads window 
will appear.  I've set a hot spot on the download button to get to it quicker.

hth
On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:24 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> I don't think so.  They've seemed to totally revamp the downloads window, and 
> frankly, I don't exactly like what they've done with it.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Kimberly thurman" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: safari question in lion
> 
> 
>> Doesn't command/option/L while in Safari to get to the downloads list work 
>> in Lion?  I haven't updated yet.  I'm taking the wait and see approach. :)
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Anne Robertson wrote:
>> 
>>> To get to the downloads in Safari, go to the Google search box with 
>>> Cmd-Option-f then VO-Right arrow once and you're on the Downloads button.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 20 Jul 2011, at 21:53, chad baker wrote:
>>> 
 hi does anyone know where the download progress is in safari when 
 downloading something
 can't find it
 thanks
 
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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Ricardo Walker]

Ah.

I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad experiences are 
you having?
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my 
> mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
> disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
> Donna
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> 
>> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
>> for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
>> the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
>> pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
>> press the letter H.
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Bryan,
>>> 
>>> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other 
>>> languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
>>> 
 I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought to
 download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
 those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
 benefits?  
 
 I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
 
 What happens if I don't download it?
 
 Brian Miller
 
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Re: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make it go away?

[Ricardo Walker]

It will probably just go away by itself.  This is what happened for me at least.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 6:07 AM, Missy Hoppe wrote:

> Hello, all. I completely forgot about the 1 other thing that's frustrating me 
> with regards to lion. I suspect this might be part of what's slowing down 
> boot-up times, but could be totally wrong about that, of course. Anyway, when 
> the mac first starts up, I'm in this thing that says com.apple.doc.extra has 
> no windows. I don't know what it is, but command-tab takes me back to the 
> finder. Is there any way to permenantly get rid of this thing, whatever it is?
> Also, I haven't noticed any issues with mail at all; have played with it a 
> bit, and it works just fine. So, apart from the problem with midi I wrote in 
> about earlier, and this com.apple.doc.extra thing, I'm over all satisfied 
> with lion, but am happy to know that I've got sl backed up on my external 
> hard drive, just in case things get too weird. As always, thank you very much 
> for your time, and I hope that everyone is having a great day!
> Missy
>  
> 
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Re: performance issues in Mail being reported - wide spread?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I was going to start another thread, but seeing you mention about sluggishness, 
I figured I'd go 'head and chime in.

I hate! the new ITunes!  May I add, I hate! the new ITunes, and oh, did I 
mention by chance?  I hate! the new ITunes!  I have probably about 12 thousand 
tracks all total in my library.  It's fine both in grid and list view if I 
search for things in the library, and narrow down my search, but if I have it 
populating in list view all 12 something odd thousand of my tracks, I think 
even in grid view, ITunes just sits there and hangs busy busy busy until I tab, 
notice I didn't say vo  away, I said quote: tab! away from the table/grid.  So, 
yeah, I don't think this is just! a Mail thing.  I'm seeing sluggishness here 
as well.  NOrmally it seems way more fast and snappy than SL did, but not? in 
thi9s case, that's for sure!

Has anyone else in ITunes noticed this, yet?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Bishop 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:19 PM
  Subject: performance issues in Mail being reported - wide spread?


  Hello,

   

  People on Twitter are reporting major sluggishness issues in Mail and other 
areas. Are others seeing this? I upgraded this morning but then had to go to 
work so will play later this evening. I am just curious what others are seeing 
pertaining to this?

   

  Jeff

   


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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

What exactly is this new favorites bar thing supposed to do.  I fiddled with 
it a bit and I see the check boxes for inbox, and for sent items, but 
nothing apparet is seeming to really happen when I check/uncheck these 
items.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail


Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. 
You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with 
the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to the 
message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do that 
anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble some, and 
I liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 tables, guess I 
got to get use to it.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


It's in the view menu.
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:


Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? 
For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there 
are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
preferences, if you feel so inclined.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Zack,

I'm doing the same thing you are.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi Dona,
How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys alone, 
without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too bad. 
Similarly, I don't interact with the list.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described earlier. 
Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the status 
information.

Best,
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
just fine, though the status does change because of the way I have 
my preview pane set up.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
noticed this?

Best,
Donna

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Re: performance issues in Mail being reported - wide spread?

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Chris,
I can't speak to iTunes 10.4, seeing as I'm in the iOS 5 beta and thus using 
10.5.  I noticed sluggishness in the early 10.5 beta which was fixed in a 
subsequent release, so would expect this to also go away in time on the normal 
track too.  In the meantime, I search for things to narrow them down as a 
matter of course, so don't have issues anyway.
Best,
Zack.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:30 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> I was going to start another thread, but seeing you mention about 
> sluggishness, I figured I'd go 'head and chime in.
>  
> I hate! the new ITunes!  May I add, I hate! the new ITunes, and oh, did I 
> mention by chance?  I hate! the new ITunes!  I have probably about 12 
> thousand tracks all total in my library.  It's fine both in grid and list 
> view if I search for things in the library, and narrow down my search, but if 
> I have it populating in list view all 12 something odd thousand of my tracks, 
> I think even in grid view, ITunes just sits there and hangs busy busy busy 
> until I tab, notice I didn't say vo  away, I said quote: tab! away from the 
> table/grid.  So, yeah, I don't think this is just! a Mail thing.  I'm seeing 
> sluggishness here as well.  NOrmally it seems way more fast and snappy than 
> SL did, but not? in thi9s case, that's for sure!
>  
> Has anyone else in ITunes noticed this, yet?
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Jeff Bishop
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:19 PM
> Subject: performance issues in Mail being reported - wide spread?
> 
> Hello,
>  
> People on Twitter are reporting major sluggishness issues in Mail and other 
> areas. Are others seeing this? I upgraded this morning but then had to go to 
> work so will play later this evening. I am just curious what others are 
> seeing pertaining to this?
>  
> Jeff
>  
> 
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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, Zack, please do, as I'm just not getting it.  Like I said, I know 
there's a button under there to hid/show your mailbox list, but as for the 
other two check boxes, I'm not quite following what that's supposed to do.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail


Hi,
I think there's a new concept of favorite mailboxes, but haven't explored it 
thoroughly yet.  I'll let you know if I figure more out.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

The only way I could see my personal mailboxes was to switch back to 
classic view.

Cheers,
Donna
Donna Goodin, M.A., Ph.D.
Dissertation and Career Coach
Phone: 734-506-8579
Email: do...@yourdonedissertation.com
do...@idealpathcoaching.com
Web: httP://www.yourdonedissertation.com
http://www.idealpathcoaching.com

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. 
You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with 
the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to 
the message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do 
that anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble 
some, and I liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 
tables, guess I got to get use to it.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


It's in the view menu.
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:


Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? 
For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there 
are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
preferences, if you feel so inclined.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Zack,

I'm doing the same thing you are.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi Dona,
How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys 
alone, without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too 
bad.  Similarly, I don't interact with the list.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described 
earlier.  Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the 
status information.

Best,
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
just fine, though the status does change because of the way I 
have my preview pane set up.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
noticed this?

Best,
Donna

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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Zachary Kline]

Hi CHris,
I think calling them checkboxes is a bit of a misnomer.  They really let you 
quickly jump between mailboxes.  Notice that when you have a draft in progress, 
the drafts mailbox is also listed there.
Best,
Zack.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> What exactly is this new favorites bar thing supposed to do.  I fiddled with 
> it a bit and I see the check boxes for inbox, and for sent items, but nothing 
> apparet is seeming to really happen when I check/uncheck these items.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail
> 
> 
> Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. You 
> can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
> 
>> Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with the 
>> mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to the 
>> message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do that 
>> anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble some, and I 
>> liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 tables, guess I got 
>> to get use to it.
>> Kliphton SR
>> (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
>> (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
>> Sent from my IMac
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> It's in the view menu.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
>>> 
 Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
 Kliphton SR
 (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
 (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
 Sent from my IMac
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
> Hi DOnna,
> Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? For 
> instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there are 
> unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
> You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
> identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing preferences, 
> if you feel so inclined.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Zack,
>> 
>> I'm doing the same thing you are.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Dona,
>>> How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys alone, 
>>> without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too bad. 
>>> Similarly, I don't interact with the list.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described earlier. 
 Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the status 
 information.
 Best,
 Donna
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
> Hi DOnna,
> Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
> just fine, though the status does change because of the way I have my 
> preview pane set up.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else noticed 
>> this?
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
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> 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: conversations in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

No no no no no.  Hit right arrow and left arrow to expand or collapse.  Not 
vo+left or right, I'm saying, leave the vo keys out.


In other words, once you're on the message thread, hit your right arrow by 
itself to expand.  Then down arrow by itself to go to the next message in 
the thread.  when done, just hit left arrow by itself, and the thread should 
collapse.  Then you can hit delete like normal to kill the whole thread.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Westbrook" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
Subject: conversations in mail


This whole conversation business in mail doesn't seem to make sense anymore. 
It used to be that when I hit enter on a conversation all the messages would 
open up and I could just delete them one by one and here the next message. 
Now when I hit enter it just seems to read the last one.  I know I can do 
vo+space and read each message individually, but that seems like more of a 
pain.  am I missing something?  Guess I could go back to classic layout, but 
would like to at least learn the new interface since I'm sure that will be 
taken away at some point.


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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Well, you got lucky then.  Must of us had to go in there and un-hide it, 
including myself.  LOL!


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kliph&Sharrie" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail


I didn't have to do this, it's right next to the favorites bar, your mail 
box list that is.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

The only way I could see my personal mailboxes was to switch back to 
classic view.

Cheers,
Donna
Donna Goodin, M.A., Ph.D.
Dissertation and Career Coach
Phone: 734-506-8579
Email: do...@yourdonedissertation.com
do...@idealpathcoaching.com
Web: httP://www.yourdonedissertation.com
http://www.idealpathcoaching.com

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. 
You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with 
the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to 
the message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do 
that anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble 
some, and I liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 
tables, guess I got to get use to it.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


It's in the view menu.
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:


Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? 
For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there 
are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
preferences, if you feel so inclined.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Zack,

I'm doing the same thing you are.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi Dona,
How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys 
alone, without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too 
bad.  Similarly, I don't interact with the list.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described 
earlier.  Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the 
status information.

Best,
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
just fine, though the status does change because of the way I 
have my preview pane set up.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
noticed this?

Best,
Donna

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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Oh, Cliff.  that's cause your quick nav's on.  No wonder.  Hit your left and 
right arrow keys together to turn that off.  Then! try to left and right 
arrow by itself.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kliph&Sharrie" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail


Also, arrowing to the right does not open my conversations.  Hitting up and 
down arrow together does.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

I imagine it's a per mailbox setting.  I wouldn't know, since I don't use 
mailboxes all that much.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Strange thing is happening, in my in box the messages are being shown by 
conversation, but in my

other mailboxes they are not.  Any idea why?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi,
There's a favorites bar above the messages column you can investigate. 
There's a button to let you show or hide the mailbox list.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:


How is this done?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:30 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is 
hidden.  You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact 
with the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to 
get to the message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let 
you do that anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of 
trouble some, and I liked being able to tab back and forth between 
these 2 tables, guess I got to get use to it.

Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


It's in the view menu.
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:


Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same 
thing?  For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed 
and there are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or 
less identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
preferences, if you feel so inclined.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Zack,

I'm doing the same thing you are.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi Dona,
How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys 
alone, without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't 
too bad.  Similarly, I don't interact with the list.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described 
earlier.  Basically, I hear all the usual message info except 
the status information.

Best,
Donna

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:


Hi DOnna,
Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message 
status just fine, though the status does change because of the 
way I have my preview pane set up.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
noticed this?

Best,
Donna

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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Donna Goodin]

Basically, mailboxes like inbox, drafts, sent are already there.  But for that 
to be a useful feature, there needs to be a way to add user-created mailboxes 
that one uses frequently.  That's what I'm not finding.
Best,
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Yeah, Zack, please do, as I'm just not getting it.  Like I said, I know 
> there's a button under there to hid/show your mailbox list, but as for the 
> other two check boxes, I'm not quite following what that's supposed to do.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I think there's a new concept of favorite mailboxes, but haven't explored it 
> thoroughly yet.  I'll let you know if I figure more out.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> The only way I could see my personal mailboxes was to switch back to classic 
>> view.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> Donna Goodin, M.A., Ph.D.
>> Dissertation and Career Coach
>> Phone: 734-506-8579
>> Email: do...@yourdonedissertation.com
>> do...@idealpathcoaching.com
>> Web: httP://www.yourdonedissertation.com
>> http://www.idealpathcoaching.com
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> 
>>> Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. 
>>> You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
>>> 
 Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with 
 the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to the 
 message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do that 
 anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble some, and 
 I liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 tables, guess I 
 got to get use to it.
 Kliphton SR
 (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
 (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
 Sent from my IMac
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> It's in the view menu.
> Donna
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
> 
>> Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
>> Kliphton SR
>> (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
>> (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
>> Sent from my IMac
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi DOnna,
>>> Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? 
>>> For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there 
>>> are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
>>> You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
>>> identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
>>> preferences, if you feel so inclined.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Zack,
 
 I'm doing the same thing you are.
 Best,
 Donna
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
 
> Hi Dona,
> How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys alone, 
> without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too bad.  
> Similarly, I don't interact with the list.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described earlier. 
>>  Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the status 
>> information.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi DOnna,
>>> Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
>>> just fine, though the status does change because of the way I have 
>>> my preview pane set up.
>>> Best,
>>> Zack.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
 noticed this?
 Best,
 Donna
 
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>>> 
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" 

Re: VO documentation for Lion?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

New finder?  Someone fill me in?  I've not seen anything different really 
with the Finder... or at least... nothing apparent that just jumps right out 
at me.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Otten" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:08 PM
Subject: VO documentation for Lion?


I'd like to be able to read about VO and Lion before trying the download. I 
haven't seen anything on the Apple site. Am I missing it? Or is it not there 
yet? With all the new touch-based interactions, new finder etc, I think 
there must be some new ways of interacting between vo and the os, no?


Mary
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: updates for Itunes and Iwork

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Dono about IWorks, but man they really! broke the list  view for larger 
libraries in ITunes.  See my previous post for more detail.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Otten" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:25 PM
Subject: updates for Itunes and Iwork


In all the Lion excitement, people may have missed the updates to ITunes 
and IWork that came out today. Both applications can now be run full 
screen if you have Lion. No clue what bugs might have been fixed.


Mary

Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: ICloud?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I could be wrong, but I heard that the ICloud wouldn't be totally ready until 
this Fall.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kliph&Sharrie 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 7:42 PM
  Subject: ICloud?


  Okay, when I bought my Mac back in june.  The store rep told me that ICloud 
would be free for all those who bought lion.  Is this true, and if so how do 
you set it up?  Thanks.


  Kliphton SR
  (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
  (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
  Sent from my IMac



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Re: VO documentation for Lion?

[Ricardo Walker]

No,

What ever changes were made are visual in nature and don't effect the behavior 
a voiceover user on snow leopard expects.  Most of that gesture based stuff is 
for sighted folks.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:40 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> New finder?  Someone fill me in?  I've not seen anything different really 
> with the Finder... or at least... nothing apparent that just jumps right out 
> at me.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:08 PM
> Subject: VO documentation for Lion?
> 
> 
> I'd like to be able to read about VO and Lion before trying the download. I 
> haven't seen anything on the Apple site. Am I missing it? Or is it not there 
> yet? With all the new touch-based interactions, new finder etc, I think there 
> must be some new ways of interacting between vo and the os, no?
> 
> Mary
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: ICloud?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Speaking of I O S, it's not V5, be aware, but I hear there is! an I O S 4.X 
update for IPod/IPhone and IPad users.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: ICloud?



Hi,
iCloud is not yet ready for prime time.  It will be released in the fall, 
presumably along with iOS 5.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Matthew Campbell wrote:


Hi.
It will be free accept that it's not out yet. It won't be out until the 
fall.


On 2011-07-20, at 7:42 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:

Okay, when I bought my Mac back in june.  The store rep told me that 
ICloud would be free for all those who bought lion.  Is this true, and 
if so how do you set it up?  Thanks.


Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac


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Re: updates for Itunes and Iwork

[Ricardo Walker]

Yup,

I have over 15,500 songs in iTunes and I'm not a happy camper. lol

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Dono about IWorks, but man they really! broke the list  view for larger 
> libraries in ITunes.  See my previous post for more detail.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:25 PM
> Subject: updates for Itunes and Iwork
> 
> 
>> In all the Lion excitement, people may have missed the updates to ITunes and 
>> IWork that came out today. Both applications can now be run full screen if 
>> you have Lion. No clue what bugs might have been fixed.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> Mary Otten
>> motte...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: question about keyboard commands

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Easy!  And no, this isn't a stupid question.  When I was first starting last 
April, I had the same question.


Here ya go.

Home=FN+Up arrow

End="FN+Down arrow

Page Up=FN+Left Arrow

Page Down=FN+Right Arrow.

Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: "Shannon Dyer" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:01 PM
Subject: question about keyboard commands


I have sort of a stupid question. I'm using a MacBook, and don't have a home 
or an end key. Neither do I have page up or page down. I imagine there is 
some sort of key combo that will perform these functions. Can someone 
enlighten me?


Shannon
Are you a fan of women's music? If so, join me each Thursday from noon until 
three for the Eclectic Collection: a Celebration of Women In Music. Point 
your media player to:

http://mojoradio.us/listen
or
www.mintfm.net

On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Ronald McEwan wrote:


Sorry that should be vo+shift+home and vo+shift+end.


In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Marc Workman wrote:

VO home/end is not working for me.  I've tried interacting in various 
ways, but all that happens when I press VO home/end is that focus is 
moved by a few messages.  If I keep pressing VO home/end, focus stays on 
that message, yet if I move up or down once, and then press VO home/end, 
it again shifts several messages.  I can't determine any pattern 
explaining why it stops at the messages it stops at.


Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Marc
- Original Message - From: "Ronald McEwan" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: one bad thing I've found in mail



VO+home and VO+end will do that.



In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi all,

Well, I'm sad to say that the Option Down arrow command that used to 
move you to the top and bottom of the message list is now gone. (sigh)

Best,
Donna

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Re: one more bad thing in mail

[Zachary Kline]

Hi Donna,
This is one area where the new VO drag and drop feature comes in handy.  What 
you can do is select a mailbox in the sidebar--note that you may need to 
interact with it in order to do this, and hit vo-comma.  That marks an item for 
drag and drop.  Then you interact the favorites bar and decide where you want 
it, and hit vo-period.  As an added bonus, you can use cmcd-1, cmd2-, etc. to 
go to the first, second, etc. items in the bar.
Hope this helps,
Zack.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:43 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Basically, mailboxes like inbox, drafts, sent are already there.  But for 
> that to be a useful feature, there needs to be a way to add user-created 
> mailboxes that one uses frequently.  That's what I'm not finding.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, Zack, please do, as I'm just not getting it.  Like I said, I know 
>> there's a button under there to hid/show your mailbox list, but as for the 
>> other two check boxes, I'm not quite following what that's supposed to do.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: one more bad thing in mail
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I think there's a new concept of favorite mailboxes, but haven't explored it 
>> thoroughly yet.  I'll let you know if I figure more out.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> The only way I could see my personal mailboxes was to switch back to 
>>> classic view.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> Donna Goodin, M.A., Ph.D.
>>> Dissertation and Career Coach
>>> Phone: 734-506-8579
>>> Email: do...@yourdonedissertation.com
>>> do...@idealpathcoaching.com
>>> Web: httP://www.yourdonedissertation.com
>>> http://www.idealpathcoaching.com
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>>> 
 Unless I'm missing something, by default the mailboxes column is hidden. 
 You can restore it and then should be able to tab as usual.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
 
> Another thing that has gone away is, instead of having to interact with 
> the mailbox and message column, all I had to do is press tab to get to 
> the message list from the mailbox list, it doesn't seem to let you do 
> that anymore either.  Interacting back and forth was kind of trouble 
> some, and I liked being able to tab back and forth between these 2 
> tables, guess I got to get use to it.
> Kliphton SR
> (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
> (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
> Sent from my IMac
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> It's in the view menu.
>> Donna
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote:
>> 
>>> Where do you adjust the conversation or thread view?
>>> Kliphton SR
>>> (twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
>>> (Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
>>> Sent from my IMac
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>>> 
 Hi DOnna,
 Very odd.  WHen you say "status" are we talking about the same thing? 
 For instance, when I view this conversation if it's closed and there 
 are unread messages I hear "unread" before opening it.
 You might want to switch to the classic layout, which is more or less 
 identical to the way Mail behaved in SL.  THat's in Viewing 
 preferences, if you feel so inclined.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> Hi Zack,
> 
> I'm doing the same thing you are.
> Best,
> Donna
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:50 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
> 
>> Hi Dona,
>> How are you moving between messages?  I'm using the arrow keys 
>> alone, without the VO keys.  a bit more verbose, but it isn't too 
>> bad.  Similarly, I don't interact with the list.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:52 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, I took the preview pane down to zero as was described 
>>> earlier.  Basically, I hear all the usual message info except the 
>>> status information.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:45 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:
>>> 
 Hi DOnna,
 Can you clarify this a bit?  I see unread and read message status 
 just fine, though the status does change because of the way I have 
 my preview pane set up.
 Best,
 Zack.
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> VO has also stopped reading the message status.  Anyone else 
> noticed this?
> Best,
> Donn

Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You wrote:

I can't see any reason not to upgrade unless there is some important app you 
use that is not Lion compatible.


I have quite a few apps on my system, and I've not found a single one yet 
that doesn't work.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ricardo Walker" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: The lion sleeps tonight


Hi,

If your a voiceover user, its a great deal for $30 in my opinion.  We now 
have 1 letter navigation in the web browser, profiles you can set up for 
different apps.  A boat load of new high quality voices for no extra charge. 
And I'm sure I'm missing some new features.  I can't see any reason not to 
upgrade unless there is some important app you use that is not Lion 
compatible.

On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:


I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought to
download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
benefits?

I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.

What happens if I don't download it?

Brian Miller

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Re: single letter navigation

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hey there.
I would love to get my head around this quicknav thingy, but it just confuses 
me to no end. I know the basics of it, but i sorta forget i have it on and 
suddenly my arrows do strange things unless i turn the quicknav off. I assume 
there are ways to use the quick nav but well i just don't know enough about it.
/Krister 
21 jul 2011 kl. 02:24 skrev Ricardo Walker:

> Hi,
> 
> you activate it in VO utilities in the commander category.  Select quick nav 
> and then you will find the option.  Remember, quick nav needs to be on to use 
> it.
> 
> hth  under 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 8:20 PM, chad baker wrote:
> 
>> hi is there a way to do single letter navigation can't find it
>> thanks
>> 
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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Ricardo,

I'm finding VO to be *very sluggish.  It seems like its speaking items a good 
half second after I initiate an action.

I also don't seem to be able to close apps any more.  When I think I've closed 
an app, if I try and open it later, VO says "App x is running in the 
background."  I presume one has to close apps from the launchpad now or 
something, but that seems much more cumbersome than just being able to press 
Cmd-Q.

iTunes is *ungodly slow, honestly, it's as bad as being on a Windows machine.  
And you don't seem to be able to scroll down through your list of songs any 
more, though this may be part of the speed issue.

Lastly, VO doesn't seem to track very well.  For example, when I open an app, 
I'm taken to the desktop, and have to perform a Cmd-tab to actually get myself 
into the app.

Lastly, I installed Samantha, but gave up on her.  I'm now back with Victoria.  
Samantha was not indicating sentence endings at all.  If there was a period, 
she just went right on reading with no pause or inflection, as though the 
period wasn't even there.
As I've said, I was gone most of last night, so haven't had a ton of time to 
sort through things yet.  But those are some of the things I'm not liking at 
the moment.  As I think Zack said, hopefully there will be an update that will 
address some of these things.
Best,
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Ah.
> 
> I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad experiences 
> are you having?
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my 
>> mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
>> disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
>> Donna
>> 
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> 
>>> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
>>> for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
>>> the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
>>> pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
>>> press the letter H.
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Bryan,
 
 At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other 
 languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
 Best,
 Donna
 
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
 
> I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought to
> download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
> those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
> benefits?  
> 
> I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
> 
> What happens if I don't download it?
> 
> Brian Miller
> 
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Re: one new feature of Lion I absolutely love!

[Krister Ekstrom]

Wow! that sounds like a really cool feature, this must be investigated. Me, i 
played a bit with the drag and drop yesterday. Not so much that i know that it 
works in *all* situations, but i can say that it works for say dragging 
something from the finder to mail. I don't know the commands on keyboards with 
english layout though so can't say how you are doing it.
/Krister

21 jul 2011 kl. 02:42 skrev Peggy Fleischer:

> I have installed Lion and I'm beginning to play around with the new features 
> and found one that I absolutely love. I've found that if you select several 
> files in a folder and want to put them in a new folder you can just select 
> the files as usual and then  do vo shift m and down arrow to "new folder with 
> selected items" and your files are placed in to the new folder and you are 
> given a text box to name the folder. I'm sure there is a keyboard shortcut 
> for this so you may not have to do the vo m but I haven't gotten that far 
> yet. Very cool!
> 
> 
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Re: single letter navigation

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, here's what you do.

Firwstly and foremost, bring up Safari.

Now, there's a little gotcha to this.  Let me see if I can explain this.

The problem you're gonna have is Under the voiceover utility, there is a 
category called commanders.  Now, you have a fourth tab under there called 
quick nav.  The problem is If you simply go under here and check the box to 
enable quick nav, what this does is, it sets things so that quick nav is by 
default enabled.  This would mean it would be as if you had hit the 
left/right arrows together and turned it on.  Now that it's enabled you can 
also vo+down in this screen and tell it to use single letter navigation. 
Now this all looks great doesn't it.  Well, there's a little catch to this 
though that most people don't think about.


Maybe I'm just too thorough, but I caught this issue pretty well, right 
away.


Here's the thing.  If you enable quick nav through here.  You're doing it 
globally.


In other words, If you enable quick nav through here, that's gonna turn it 
on regardless! where in lion you are.  this can be incredibly! annoying! 
There surely are some apps you don't want/need quick nav enabled.  Well, so 
fine, turn it off in those apps.  Yeah, you say that... then try going back 
to Safari, and watch.  There goes your quick nav in there, too.  Now your 
letter nav doesn't work anymore.


So, what's the sollution?  Simple!

What I've! done, personally, is I've opened up Safari, then made an Activity 
and attached it to Safari individually.  Then when setting it up, I chose to 
keep other settings.  It's a check box in there.  Once I checked that box 
under the activity category, I hit vo+right arrow, and went over to quick 
nav and checked the box.  Then I hit vo+space on the set quick nav button. 
Now in here, I told it to use Quick nav, and letter navigation.  Then I 
attached the activity to safari.app.  So, now, what happens is, if I am not 
in Safari, quick nav isn't on.  the minute I either launch it, or command 
tab, or whatever into it, magically, Quick nav now is enabled and my single 
letters work.


One more thing to know.

If you have quick nav on in Safari, then as soon as you reach a text box, 
say like the google search box, or say, a place to enter on a form your 
name, etc.  If you have quick nav on but single letter off, this problem 
won't exist, same goes if quick nav's off totally.  but if quick nav, *and!* 
single letter are on, as most people would probably want it to be, then, 
what you're gonna have to do is, you're gonna have to, once vo is focused on 
the text box, then, vo+shift+down arrow, and interact with the text box.  I 
know, normally, you don't interact with text boxes, but trust me with this. 
If you don't do that first, then voiceover is going to intercept everything 
you type as a quick nav command.  When done typing, stop interacting with 
vo+shift+up arrow, then you're on your merry way, and can continue 
navigating as normal.


The final thing is, when  quick nav and single letter both are on, if you 
vo+space, or up+down arrow, either/or, on a popup menu in a web site, be 
aware that first letter navigation won't work.  For this, I suggest once the 
box is opened and dropped down, hit left+right arrows to turn off quick nav. 
Hit your first letter navigation or whatever, pick your option with 
vo+space, then turn quick nav back on with left+right arrows.  Again, that's 
only if you obviously want! to use first letter nav in a popup that may be 
really big.


Otherwise, don't worry about it.

Hope this helps.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "chad baker" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:20 PM
Subject: single letter navigation



hi is there a way to do single letter navigation can't find it
thanks

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Re: one new feature of Lion I absolutely love!

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Here ya go, cliff.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html#accessibility

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kliph&Sharrie" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: one new feature of Lion I absolutely love!


Where can I get the documentation for new featers and how to use them for 
Lion?


Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 20, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Peggy Fleischer wrote:

I have installed Lion and I'm beginning to play around with the new 
features and found one that I absolutely love. I've found that if you 
select several files in a folder and want to put them in a new folder you 
can just select the files as usual and then  do vo shift m and down arrow 
to "new folder with selected items" and your files are placed in to the 
new folder and you are given a text box to name the folder. I'm sure there 
is a keyboard shortcut for this so you may not have to do the vo m but I 
haven't gotten that far yet. Very cool!



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Re: one bad thing I've found in mail

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

It's just 4 fingers, big deal, and Carolyn's right.  do vo+simmi colon and 
lock your keys if you must, then just remember to unlock them when done. 
Also for nuby's be aware, no, this is not the same as quick nav.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "carolyn Haas" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: one bad thing I've found in mail



Hey c'mon Donna, that's not what i've heard. Jus teasing you.:)
I know Melissa always tells me to employ the VO-lock.  Then I forget it's 
on and get myself all messed up because nothing works normally until it's 
unlocked again.
It's interesting to be able to stand by and be just a little envious as 
everyone dives in and I wait for  financial skies to clear a little. (HMM, 
may be into bears by that time.:)


Take care.

Carolyn




On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Yes, but that requires pressing fifty gazillion keys.  I don't have that 
many fingers.

Donna


On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:01 PM, Ronald McEwan wrote:


VO+home and VO+end will do that.



In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi all,

Well, I'm sad to say that the Option Down arrow command that used to 
move you to the top and bottom of the message list is now gone. (sigh)

Best,
Donna

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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Ricardo Walker]

OMG Donna!  What a horror show.

It sounds like you might want to do a clean install of Lion.  This isn't normal 
behavior at all.

The only one of your experiences I've shared is the butchering of iTunes.  I 
think this is more do to the new iTunes than Lion though. 

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi Ricardo,
> 
> I'm finding VO to be *very sluggish.  It seems like its speaking items a good 
> half second after I initiate an action.
> 
> I also don't seem to be able to close apps any more.  When I think I've 
> closed an app, if I try and open it later, VO says "App x is running in the 
> background."  I presume one has to close apps from the launchpad now or 
> something, but that seems much more cumbersome than just being able to press 
> Cmd-Q.
> 
> iTunes is *ungodly slow, honestly, it's as bad as being on a Windows machine. 
>  And you don't seem to be able to scroll down through your list of songs any 
> more, though this may be part of the speed issue.
> 
> Lastly, VO doesn't seem to track very well.  For example, when I open an app, 
> I'm taken to the desktop, and have to perform a Cmd-tab to actually get 
> myself into the app.
> 
> Lastly, I installed Samantha, but gave up on her.  I'm now back with 
> Victoria.  Samantha was not indicating sentence endings at all.  If there was 
> a period, she just went right on reading with no pause or inflection, as 
> though the period wasn't even there.
> As I've said, I was gone most of last night, so haven't had a ton of time to 
> sort through things yet.  But those are some of the things I'm not liking at 
> the moment.  As I think Zack said, hopefully there will be an update that 
> will address some of these things.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Ah.
>> 
>> I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad experiences 
>> are you having?
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my 
>>> mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
>>> disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Donna,
 
 What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
 for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
 the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
 pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
 press the letter H.
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> Hi Bryan,
> 
> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other 
> languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
> 
>> I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought 
>> to
>> download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
>> those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
>> benefits?  
>> 
>> I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
>> 
>> What happens if I don't download it?
>> 
>> Brian Miller
>> 
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Re: how long to charge amacbook?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Generally, you're looking at around two to three hours to fully charge when 
almost drained.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Karen Lewellen" 

To: "list voiceover" 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:23 AM
Subject: how long to charge amacbook?


I realize most of you are playing in the jungle with Lion, but if someone 
can tell me how long it takes to do this I would appreciate it.

taking my loan of a macbook to play at Starbucks tomorrow.
thanks,
Karen

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Re: how long to charge amacbook?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, coffee is bad for Macbooks.  My friend found that out about a month 
ago the hard way.  LOL!  Thank god Norma had Warranty.  LOL!


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Isaac Obie" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: how long to charge amacbook?



Hi Karen,
I should think three hours would do it. But why not leave it pluged in 
overnight? And don't give the Macbook any coffee! 

I have a Macbook!
Isaac
- Original Message - 
From: "Karen Lewellen" 

To: "list voiceover" 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:23 AM
Subject: how long to charge amacbook?


I realize most of you are playing in the jungle with Lion, but if someone 
can tell me how long it takes to do this I would appreciate it.

taking my loan of a macbook to play at Starbucks tomorrow.
thanks,
Karen

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Re: one bad thing I've found in mail

[Donna Goodin]

And I should do this because they, in their infinite wisdom took away the very 
simple, quick and effective Cmd-up and down arrow.  Sorry, but  that's crazy!
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> It's just 4 fingers, big deal, and Carolyn's right.  do vo+simmi colon and 
> lock your keys if you must, then just remember to unlock them when done. Also 
> for nuby's be aware, no, this is not the same as quick nav.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "carolyn Haas" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: one bad thing I've found in mail
> 
> 
>> Hey c'mon Donna, that's not what i've heard. Jus teasing you.:)
>> I know Melissa always tells me to employ the VO-lock.  Then I forget it's on 
>> and get myself all messed up because nothing works normally until it's 
>> unlocked again.
>> It's interesting to be able to stand by and be just a little envious as 
>> everyone dives in and I wait for  financial skies to clear a little. (HMM, 
>> may be into bears by that time.:)
>> 
>> Take care.
>> 
>> Carolyn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, but that requires pressing fifty gazillion keys.  I don't have that 
>>> many fingers.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 4:01 PM, Ronald McEwan wrote:
>>> 
 VO+home and VO+end will do that.
 
 
 
 In the Journey,
 
 Ron
 
 On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I'm sad to say that the Option Down arrow command that used to move 
> you to the top and bottom of the message list is now gone. (sigh)
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, to turn the auto spell feature off, go to system preferences, then 
language and keyboard I think it's called.  Then under there, go to the text 
tab.  Down near the bottom you'll see the box to automatically correct 
spelling as you type.  Uncheck that, hit command+W, and boom!  You're all 
set.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Austin Seraphin" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: The lion sleeps tonight


Hi. I've just installed Lion on both my iMac and my MacBook Air. Of course 
things seem a little different, but I feel glad I upgraded. Over all 
VoiceOver seems more responsive, Safari too. It seems to load pages more 
quickly, and it has more accessibility options and improvements. For 
example, a friend invited me to Google Plus. I couldn't post a status under 
SL, but with Lion I can at least write something. True things still act a 
little odd, but it shows some sort of improvement. I also enjoy having 
Samantha.


I do notice that in mail, it says "Misspelled" warnings when reading message 
text, I'd rather just get that when editing text. I'll post more as I think 
of it. All and all I say go for it!


- Austin

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:


Hi Donna,

What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
press the letter H.

On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Bryan,

At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in other 
languages.  Just my opinion, of course.

Best,
Donna


On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:

I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought 
to

download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
benefits?

I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.

What happens if I don't download it?

Brian Miller

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Lion Install File

[Steve Vandecar]

Hello,

I have downloaded and installed Lion and everything is ok there but I didn't 
save the file so I could make a DVD.  How do I re download the file?  It 
doesn't seem to work from the app store.

Thanks
Steve

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Re: Launchpad

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Aa!  Vo+Comma and period!  I wondered how to do that!

Nice!

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Austin Seraphin" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:50 AM
Subject: Launchpad


Ok so has anyone figured this out? I really hoped for an iOS-style home 
screen, and it definitely seems similar. But how does one move apps around 
with VoiceOver? I tried dragging and dropping, including with the cool new 
commands VO-comma to mark and VO-period to drop. Nothing worked. I really 
really hoped that a double-tap and hold would work, like in iOS, but no such 
luck. Any clues?


- Austin
ROAR!

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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Donna Goodin]

Hey Ricardo,

Well, I'm glad to hear that this isn't normal.  I may see if I can do  a clean 
install, and hopefully some of this will go a way.  Do you happen to know how 
one can do a second install?  I didn't make a DVD, so the executable install 
app is now gone.
Thanks,
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:12 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> OMG Donna!  What a horror show.
> 
> It sounds like you might want to do a clean install of Lion.  This isn't 
> normal behavior at all.
> 
> The only one of your experiences I've shared is the butchering of iTunes.  I 
> think this is more do to the new iTunes than Lion though. 
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ricardo,
>> 
>> I'm finding VO to be *very sluggish.  It seems like its speaking items a 
>> good half second after I initiate an action.
>> 
>> I also don't seem to be able to close apps any more.  When I think I've 
>> closed an app, if I try and open it later, VO says "App x is running in the 
>> background."  I presume one has to close apps from the launchpad now or 
>> something, but that seems much more cumbersome than just being able to press 
>> Cmd-Q.
>> 
>> iTunes is *ungodly slow, honestly, it's as bad as being on a Windows 
>> machine.  And you don't seem to be able to scroll down through your list of 
>> songs any more, though this may be part of the speed issue.
>> 
>> Lastly, VO doesn't seem to track very well.  For example, when I open an 
>> app, I'm taken to the desktop, and have to perform a Cmd-tab to actually get 
>> myself into the app.
>> 
>> Lastly, I installed Samantha, but gave up on her.  I'm now back with 
>> Victoria.  Samantha was not indicating sentence endings at all.  If there 
>> was a period, she just went right on reading with no pause or inflection, as 
>> though the period wasn't even there.
>> As I've said, I was gone most of last night, so haven't had a ton of time to 
>> sort through things yet.  But those are some of the things I'm not liking at 
>> the moment.  As I think Zack said, hopefully there will be an update that 
>> will address some of these things.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah.
>>> 
>>> I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad experiences 
>>> are you having?
>>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my 
 mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
 disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
 Donna
 
 On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
> for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
> the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
> pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
> press the letter H.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bryan,
>> 
>> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in 
>> other languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought 
>>> to
>>> download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
>>> those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
>>> benefits?  
>>> 
>>> I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
>>> 
>>> What happens if I don't download it?
>>> 
>>> Brian Miller
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Could you not hit escape to get out of Launchpad?

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marc Workman" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: Launchpad


After playing with this for a bit, there seem to be some accessibility 
problems.  Though, that said, this doesn't strike me as a very useful tool 
for blind people.


First off, you don't seem to be able to navigate by pressing letters.  If 
I could find an app or a folder by pressing the first few letters, that 
might be useful, but this doesn't work as far as I can tell.


Secondly, you can't command tab or command accent your way away from 
launchpad.  In fact, I wasn't even able to navigate away using the 
application chooser.  I could only move away by choosing an app.


Honestly, for a blind person that is comfortable with using the keyboard, 
there are faster ways of launching apps.  You could get to finder with the 
application chooser, hit command shift A to bring up the applications 
menu, and type the first few letters to find the app.  Or you could use 
the doc with VO D and then use keyboard navigation to find the app.  Or, 
what I do, use keyboard maestro to set a macro that launches the 
applications folder and frequently used apps.


Launchpad seems to me to be one of several Lion features, including 
full-screen apps, mission control, and new gestures, that do little if 
anything at all for blind people.


Still, I think there's enough accessibility enhancements and other 
features that justify the low price tag.


Cheers,

Marc
- Original Message - 
From: "Austin Seraphin" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:50 PM
Subject: Launchpad


Ok so has anyone figured this out? I really hoped for an iOS-style home 
screen, and it definitely seems similar. But how does one move apps around 
with VoiceOver? I tried dragging and dropping, including with the cool new 
commands VO-comma to mark and VO-period to drop. Nothing worked. I really 
really hoped that a double-tap and hold would work, like in iOS, but no 
such luck. Any clues?


- Austin
ROAR!

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Re: Midi playback in lion

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Hi Missy, I am having a good morning actually, thanks for commenting.  Have you 
thought about trying to use Garage Band to play your midi files?  by far and 
away, it works perfectly!  It takes a lot of getting used to, I won't deny it, 
but once you get the hang of it, it's the best thing since white on rice!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Missy Hoppe 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:40 AM
  Subject: Midi playback in lion


  Hello, all! Like many of you, I ended up installing Lion yesterday. 
Everything went surprisingly smoothly, and on the whole, I don't regret the 
update at all. I switched mail to the classic view for now, and once things 
slow down a bit on this list, I will probably transfer my membership to my 
gmail address so that I can get a bit of practice using apple mail. I'm writing 
this on the PC, though, so that if I get a response, I'll be able to find and 
archive it a bit more easily. Anyway, I digress.
  So far, in my admittedly limited playing around with Lion, I'm very 
impressed. Boot time seems a bit slower than it used to be, and I really wish 
there was a way to regain the space created by that recovery partician, but 
neither of those things are particularly bothering me at this point. I am, 
however, having 1 frustrating problem which is slightly bizarre, and is 
probably concerning me a lot more than it really should.
  I still enjoy listening to midi files quite often. I don't play a keyboard, 
but I used to have fun changing instruments in midis to make them sound better. 
I understand that that particular hobby isn't an option as there is probably no 
affordible software out there that will let me do what I want, but that's not 
important right now. When I first got my macbook in May, I learned that I could 
use quicklook and/or quicktime 7 to play midis. I was very, very impressed with 
the way midis played on the mac; they sounded better than they did on my PC. 
Unfortunately, this is no longer the case under Lion. I have no idea what 
changed, but midi volume is very quiet. It almost sounds as though the files 
are being played through non-existent rear speakers or something. It's hard to 
explain, but it's almost like the volume is being kept low by some kind of AGC 
leveling software. Every time a note tries to play normally, it quickly fades 
away. I think the only way to fully appreciate the problem is to hear it in 
person. I've checked volume everywhere, and it's all set to 100 percent so far 
as I can tell. This problem doesn't occur when playing mp3 files or anything 
else so far as I can tell, which makes it all the more baffling. I tried going 
into audio midi configuration in the utilities apps, but I only got confused, 
and VO crashed a couple of times.
  So, if anyone has any ideas what might be happening, I'd really appreciate 
some help with this. I'm not saying the problem is bad enough that I'd go back 
to snow leopard to fix it, but so far, it's the only disappointment that I've 
found with Lion.
  As I said, any assistance you can provide would be extremely appreciated. 
Thank you very much for your time, and I hope that everyone is having a 
wonderful day!
  Missy

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<>

Re: VMWare Fusion and Lion

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

What I wonder is, have they fixed the issue of not being able to install XP 
under BootCamp?  I highly doubt it.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Emilio S. Hernandez" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:23 AM
Subject: VMWare Fusion and Lion



Hello everyone,

Enjoying the lion discussion so far.
Does anyone happen to know if VMWare works with lion?

Thanks

Sent from Emilio's iPhone.

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Re: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make it go away?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yes, on your ITunes thing!  I flippen! hate it!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Daniel Miller 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:16 AM
  Subject: RE: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to 
make it go away?



  Missy,

   

  I don't know what it is either, but it's really really annoying. Also, has 
anyone noticed that VO randomly won't tell you when it's on, and you have to 
press CMD-tab to get to the Finder before it will start speaking? I emailed 
apple accessibility yesterday, but haven't heard anything back from them.  Once 
I do, I'l post the response on this list since I felt there were some concerns 
that needed to be addressed.

  Also, I know this is straying off the subject, but has anyone noticed slow 
response times with VO and iTunes 10.4?

   

   

   

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Missy Hoppe
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:07 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: What the heck is com.apple.doc.extra, and is there any way to make 
it go away?

   

  Hello, all. I completely forgot about the 1 other thing that's frustrating me 
with regards to lion. I suspect this might be part of what's slowing down 
boot-up times, but could be totally wrong about that, of course. Anyway, when 
the mac first starts up, I'm in this thing that says com.apple.doc.extra has no 
windows. I don't know what it is, but command-tab takes me back to the finder. 
Is there any way to permenantly get rid of this thing, whatever it is?

  Also, I haven't noticed any issues with mail at all; have played with it a 
bit, and it works just fine. So, apart from the problem with midi I wrote in 
about earlier, and this com.apple.doc.extra thing, I'm over all satisfied with 
lion, but am happy to know that I've got sl backed up on my external hard 
drive, just in case things get too weird. As always, thank you very much for 
your time, and I hope that everyone is having a great day!

  Missy

   

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<>

Re: Launchpad

[Donna Goodin]

Escape to exit did not work for me.
Donna
Donna Goodin, M.A., Ph.D.
Dissertation and Career Coach
Phone: 734-506-8579
Email: do...@yourdonedissertation.com
do...@idealpathcoaching.com
Web: httP://www.yourdonedissertation.com
http://www.idealpathcoaching.com

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Could you not hit escape to get out of Launchpad?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Marc Workman" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 2:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Launchpad
> 
> 
>> After playing with this for a bit, there seem to be some accessibility 
>> problems.  Though, that said, this doesn't strike me as a very useful tool 
>> for blind people.
>> 
>> First off, you don't seem to be able to navigate by pressing letters.  If I 
>> could find an app or a folder by pressing the first few letters, that might 
>> be useful, but this doesn't work as far as I can tell.
>> 
>> Secondly, you can't command tab or command accent your way away from 
>> launchpad.  In fact, I wasn't even able to navigate away using the 
>> application chooser.  I could only move away by choosing an app.
>> 
>> Honestly, for a blind person that is comfortable with using the keyboard, 
>> there are faster ways of launching apps.  You could get to finder with the 
>> application chooser, hit command shift A to bring up the applications menu, 
>> and type the first few letters to find the app.  Or you could use the doc 
>> with VO D and then use keyboard navigation to find the app.  Or, what I do, 
>> use keyboard maestro to set a macro that launches the applications folder 
>> and frequently used apps.
>> 
>> Launchpad seems to me to be one of several Lion features, including 
>> full-screen apps, mission control, and new gestures, that do little if 
>> anything at all for blind people.
>> 
>> Still, I think there's enough accessibility enhancements and other features 
>> that justify the low price tag.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Marc
>> - Original Message - From: "Austin Seraphin" 
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:50 PM
>> Subject: Launchpad
>> 
>> 
>> Ok so has anyone figured this out? I really hoped for an iOS-style home 
>> screen, and it definitely seems similar. But how does one move apps around 
>> with VoiceOver? I tried dragging and dropping, including with the cool new 
>> commands VO-comma to mark and VO-period to drop. Nothing worked. I really 
>> really hoped that a double-tap and hold would work, like in iOS, but no such 
>> luck. Any clues?
>> 
>> - Austin
>> ROAR!
>> 
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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

And I thrid, that ITunes is being a pain in a place where the sun don't shine.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ricardo Walker 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:12 AM
  Subject: Re: The lion sleeps tonight


  OMG Donna!  What a horror show.


  It sounds like you might want to do a clean install of Lion.  This isn't 
normal behavior at all.


  The only one of your experiences I've shared is the butchering of iTunes.  I 
think this is more do to the new iTunes than Lion though. 


  Ricardo Walker
  rwalker...@gmail.com
  Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
  www.mobileaccess.org


  On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:


Hi Ricardo,

I'm finding VO to be *very sluggish.  It seems like its speaking items a 
good half second after I initiate an action.

I also don't seem to be able to close apps any more.  When I think I've 
closed an app, if I try and open it later, VO says "App x is running in the 
background."  I presume one has to close apps from the launchpad now or 
something, but that seems much more cumbersome than just being able to press 
Cmd-Q.

iTunes is *ungodly slow, honestly, it's as bad as being on a Windows 
machine.  And you don't seem to be able to scroll down through your list of 
songs any more, though this may be part of the speed issue.

Lastly, VO doesn't seem to track very well.  For example, when I open an 
app, I'm taken to the desktop, and have to perform a Cmd-tab to actually get 
myself into the app.

Lastly, I installed Samantha, but gave up on her.  I'm now back with 
Victoria.  Samantha was not indicating sentence endings at all.  If there was a 
period, she just went right on reading with no pause or inflection, as though 
the period wasn't even there.
As I've said, I was gone most of last night, so haven't had a ton of time 
to sort through things yet.  But those are some of the things I'm not liking at 
the moment.  As I think Zack said, hopefully there will be an update that will 
address some of these things.
Best,
Donna

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:


  Ah.



  I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad 
experiences are you having?

  On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:



Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed 
my mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.

Donna



On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:



  Hi Donna,



  What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover 
profile for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to 
navigate the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just press 
the letter H.

  On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:



Hi Bryan,



At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in 
other languages.  Just my opinion, of course.

Best,

Donna





On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:



  I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one 
ought to

  download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best 
thing for

  those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are 
the

  benefits?  



  I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there. 
 



  What happens if I don't download it?



  Brian Miller



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Re: Lion Install File

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Can you not in the app store go to the store menu, then go under purchases?

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Vandecar" 

To: "Mac Vissionaries Vissionaries" 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:18 AM
Subject: Lion Install File



Hello,

I have downloaded and installed Lion and everything is ok there but I 
didn't save the file so I could make a DVD.  How do I re download the 
file?  It doesn't seem to work from the app store.


Thanks
Steve

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Re: how long to charge amacbook?

[Tammy]

Hi,

Leave it on charge over night and you should be fine.

hth

Tammy

From: Karen Lewellen 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:23 AM
To: list voiceover 
Subject: how long to charge amacbook?

I realize most of you are playing in the jungle with Lion, but if someone 
can tell me how long it takes to do this I would appreciate it.
taking my loan of a macbook to play at Starbucks tomorrow.
thanks,
Karen

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Re: VMWare Fusion and Lion

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
VMware 2 doesn't seem to work, but Vmware 3 does work. But I do have a question 
about something with fusion 3. When I booted into my virtual machine under 
fusion 3, I got a message that my Vmware tools was out of date, and to click 
install. That's fine, but I left it in the installing state for about 7 and a 
half hours, and still no progress. Since this isn't really mac-related, can 
someone possibly email me offlist with a solution for this problem?
Thanks, 
Courtney
On Jul 21, 2011, at 5:23 AM, Emilio S. Hernandez wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Enjoying the lion discussion so far.
> Does anyone happen to know if VMWare works with lion?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from Emilio's iPhone.
> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Mary Otten]

I'm sorry to hear that launch pad does not work with VO. I had hoped that this 
would be the way to get access to applications which don't show their icons in 
the menu bar, such as the drop box. It seems like the next innovation for VO 
might be some way to use the track pad like you can on an I-device touch 
surface, that is, have a truly talking mouse.
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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all these issues

[Ray Foret Jr]

To speak frankly, all these issues I'm reading about, (especially the issues 
with mail) make me wonder now just whether or not I should pay $29.95 and 
upgrade to Lion or not.  Could it quite possibly be that all these problems 
people are having result from trying to learn a new OS without having much in 
the way of manuals or guidance?  Could it quite possibly be that there are 
faster and better ways of doing things than have been found so far?  Now 
somewhat skeptical.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1



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RE: Launchpad

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,
Launchpad does indeed work with VoiceOver. Where did you hear that it
didn't?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:50 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Launchpad

I'm sorry to hear that launch pad does not work with VO. I had hoped that
this would be the way to get access to applications which don't show their
icons in the menu bar, such as the drop box. It seems like the next
innovation for VO might be some way to use the track pad like you can on an
I-device touch surface, that is, have a truly talking mouse.
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Mary Otten]

Daniel,
There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't seem 
to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of his 
reasons.
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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RE: Launchpad

[Daniel Miller]

Mary,
Could you direct me to this post? I must have overlooked it when going
through my thousands of messages. From what I've used of it, Launchpad can
be quite useful, especially if you have over 100 apps on your mac like I do.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Launchpad

Daniel,
There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't
seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of
his reasons.
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Tammy]

Hi,

We’ve all tried it and had no luck getting things to work.  Maybe you could 
tell us how to get it to work since you’ve obviously gotten it to?

Thanks,

Tammy

From: Daniel Miller 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: RE: Launchpad

Hi,
Launchpad does indeed work with VoiceOver. Where did you hear that it
didn't?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:50 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Launchpad

I'm sorry to hear that launch pad does not work with VO. I had hoped that
this would be the way to get access to applications which don't show their
icons in the menu bar, such as the drop box. It seems like the next
innovation for VO might be some way to use the track pad like you can on an
I-device touch surface, that is, have a truly talking mouse.
Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Ronald McEwan]

That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't usually 
have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around with my finger 
finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab.  It worked just fine. 


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

> Daniel,
> There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't 
> seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of 
> his reasons.
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Mary Otten]

Hi Daniel,
We are actually in the same thread that contained the first two posts on the 
topic of launch pad, one from Mark Workman and the one that originated the 
thread from I think Austin? Some of the problems mentioned are:
no first letter navigation among apps
no way to navigate away from the launch pad except by choosing an app
no way to move applications around

Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Mary Otten]

Ok, so if you have a bunch of applications on your mac, I would think you'd 
want to organize those in the launch pad like you can with the IOS devices. It 
has been stated that drag and drop doesn't work in there, nor does the familiar 
double tap and hold to move an app. So how do you move apps? Also, have you 
found that the launch pad gives you access to those troublesome apps whose 
icons don't show up for voice over in the apple menu bar?

Mary

Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Ronald McEwan]

Escape does indeed dismiss LaunchPad.  


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> We are actually in the same thread that contained the first two posts on the 
> topic of launch pad, one from Mark Workman and the one that originated the 
> thread from I think Austin? Some of the problems mentioned are:
> no first letter navigation among apps
> no way to navigate away from the launch pad except by choosing an app
> no way to move applications around
> 
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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RE: Launchpad

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,
Yes, escape does indeed dismiss it. Also, give apple some time to publish
the getting started guide for Lion with Voiceover, perhaps that will ease
some of your concerns.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ronald McEwan
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Launchpad

Escape does indeed dismiss LaunchPad.  


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> We are actually in the same thread that contained the first two posts on
the topic of launch pad, one from Mark Workman and the one that originated
the thread from I think Austin? Some of the problems mentioned are:
> no first letter navigation among apps
> no way to navigate away from the launch pad except by choosing an app 
> no way to move applications around
> 
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: Lion Install File

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

You should be able to go into the App Store, under the Purchases tab and then 
Interact with the Purchases Table.  Locate your Lion purchase then navigate 
right to the Install button.  After you enter your password, the instal will 
start and place the file in the Applications folder.

HTH.

Later…

On 2011-07-21, at 7:18 AM, Steve Vandecar wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have downloaded and installed Lion and everything is ok there but I didn't 
> save the file so I could make a DVD.  How do I re download the file?  It 
> doesn't seem to work from the app store.
> 
> Thanks
> Steve
> 
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Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

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helpful VO MP3 files

[Ronald McEwan]

Please find attached documentation pointing to some useful tips for using VO 
with lion. 

In the Journey, 

Ron

{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\cocoartf1138
{\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Helvetica;}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;\red20\green77\blue230;}
\paperw11905\paperh16837\margl1440\margr1440\vieww10800\viewh8400\viewkind0
\deftab720
\pard\pardeftab720

\f0\fs24 \cf0 Lion and VoiceOver demos July 2011\
\
Here's a link to "What Is New In Lion And VoiceOver.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\tx566\tx1133\tx1700\tx2267\tx2834\tx3401\tx3968\tx4535\tx5102\tx5669\tx6236\tx6803\pardeftab720\pardirnatural
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/28mWKuo"}}{\fldrslt \cf0 http://db.tt/28mWKuo}}\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Lion Premium Voices demo - Man From Snowy River.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/VKWN3Wv"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/VKWN3Wv}}\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Downloading Premium Voices for VoiceOver In Lion.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/dW57wT0"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/dW57wT0}}\cf2 \ul \ulc2  \cf0 \ulnone \
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Using Launchpad in Lion With VoiceOver.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/lZlMS3L"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/lZlMS3L}}\
\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 Here's a link to "Using Mission Control In Lion with VoiceOver.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/oo00QyV"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/oo00QyV}}\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Using VoiceOver Activities In Lion.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/DYuvU5z"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/DYuvU5z}}\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Lion system volume and VoiceOver volume.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/c2SpcQl"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/c2SpcQl}}\
\pard\pardeftab720
\cf0 \
Here's a link to "Using Letter Navigation in Lion Safari.mp3" in my Dropbox:\
\pard\pardeftab720\sa240
{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK "http://db.tt/HpyTJNF"}}{\fldrslt \cf2 \ul \ulc2 http://db.tt/HpyTJNF}}\
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Re: Launchpad

[Krister Ekstrom]

Ok, pardon my total and utter ignorance here, but are we *really* supposed to 
be able to move applications around? After all, they are all placed in the same 
folder and the launch pad should reflect that folder, right? Or is there 
something obvious i have missed as usual?
/Krister
21 jul 2011 kl. 16:00 skrev Ronald McEwan:

> That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't 
> usually have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around with my 
> finger finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab.  It worked 
> just fine. 
> 
> 
> In the Journey, 
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> 
>> Daniel,
>> There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't 
>> seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of 
>> his reasons.
>> Mary Otten
>> motte...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: conversations in mail

[Chris Westbrook]

I personally think dealing with conversations is more clumsy now.  It used to 
be that all messages would open up when you hit enter on a conversation.  I 
would read one message, hit delete, and the next message would basically start 
reading.  Now, I have to go to the preview pane, read the message, hit delete, 
and then I'm back in the message list again so I have to go to the preview pane 
again.  I wish it would just stay in the preview pane so I could just here the 
next message.  If I hit enter on a message in the thread and open it in a new 
window when I hit delete I'm back in the message list again.  How are others 
dealing with list threads?  am I missing something obvious?

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> No no no no no.  Hit right arrow and left arrow to expand or collapse.  Not 
> vo+left or right, I'm saying, leave the vo keys out.
> 
> In other words, once you're on the message thread, hit your right arrow by 
> itself to expand.  Then down arrow by itself to go to the next message in the 
> thread.  when done, just hit left arrow by itself, and the thread should 
> collapse.  Then you can hit delete like normal to kill the whole thread.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Chris Westbrook" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
> Subject: conversations in mail
> 
> 
> This whole conversation business in mail doesn't seem to make sense anymore. 
> It used to be that when I hit enter on a conversation all the messages would 
> open up and I could just delete them one by one and here the next message. 
> Now when I hit enter it just seems to read the last one.  I know I can do 
> vo+space and read each message individually, but that seems like more of a 
> pain.  am I missing something?  Guess I could go back to classic layout, but 
> would like to at least learn the new interface since I'm sure that will be 
> taken away at some point.
> 
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Re: Mail Impressions in Lion

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi there.
Could you please give an example of how you're using quick nav now compared to 
before? I have never gotten into that quicknav thing, even since the beginning 
of Snow leopard. Can't seem to get the hang of it. Maybe that it's true, that 
you can't teach an old dog new tricks.:-)
/Krister
21 jul 2011 kl. 14:11 skrev David Taylor:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm playing with the new layout too. I just use Quick Nav a lot more than I 
> used to in mail. I wonder if quite a few of the changes will make me default 
> to having quick nav switched on most of the time now. I certainly like the 
> way the preview is working for me as there are quite a few messages I would 
> probably have opened before that I am not doing now.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> On 21 Jul 2011, at 11:56, Zachary Kline wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> I wanted to give my impressions of the new OS X Mail, which I'm slowly 
>> coming to grips with.  I've decided to force myself to use it in the new 
>> layout, and have actually had some success with it.
>> To begin with, the VoiceOver Getting started guide suggests using it with 
>> the VO cursor, and I have to agree.  Doing it this way seems to be quite 
>> fast, and is working quite well for me.  You can jump quickly between the 
>> table of messages and the message proper with vo-j.
>> Conversations can either be expanded or not, depending on whether you need 
>> to work with the individual messages in them.  By default it seems the focus 
>> is on the first unread message of every conversation, and they are displayed 
>> in reverse-chronological order, which makes sense to me as you're likely to 
>> be concerned with the recent messages over the older ones.
>> Attachments work pretty much as they always have.  You'll find a popup 
>> button in the message headers allowing you to save them, and a Quick-look 
>> button allowing you to preview them.  This all requires the VO cursor for 
>> navigation, of course, but thus far I've had no real problems with it and in 
>> fact it is quite similar to how I used mail in SL.
>> I hope you all give the new Mail a chance to work as intended before 
>> immediately jumping into the classic layout, as effective as that still is.
>> Best,
>> Zack.
>> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Teresa Cochran]

I'm inclined simply to use the dock instead of the launchpad, but I may still 
explore it and see how it works.

Teresa
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:18 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

> Ok, pardon my total and utter ignorance here, but are we *really* supposed to 
> be able to move applications around? After all, they are all placed in the 
> same folder and the launch pad should reflect that folder, right? Or is there 
> something obvious i have missed as usual?
> /Krister
> 21 jul 2011 kl. 16:00 skrev Ronald McEwan:
> 
>> That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't 
>> usually have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around with 
>> my finger finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab.  It worked 
>> just fine. 
>> 
>> 
>> In the Journey, 
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> 
>>> Daniel,
>>> There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't 
>>> seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of 
>>> his reasons.
>>> Mary Otten
>>> motte...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Zachary Kline]

Hi,
THe Dock itself has some improvements in Lion as well, such as the reading of 
iOS-like badges and access to stacks in other modes than simply via a menu.  I 
highly recommend it.
Best,
Zack.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:32 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

> I'm inclined simply to use the dock instead of the launchpad, but I may still 
> explore it and see how it works.
> 
> Teresa
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:18 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
> 
>> Ok, pardon my total and utter ignorance here, but are we *really* supposed 
>> to be able to move applications around? After all, they are all placed in 
>> the same folder and the launch pad should reflect that folder, right? Or is 
>> there something obvious i have missed as usual?
>> /Krister
>> 21 jul 2011 kl. 16:00 skrev Ronald McEwan:
>> 
>>> That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't 
>>> usually have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around with 
>>> my finger finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab.  It 
>>> worked just fine. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the Journey, 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> 
 Daniel,
 There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't 
 seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some 
 of his reasons.
 Mary Otten
 motte...@gmail.com
 
 
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Re: getting more voices for 10.7

[Christopher Peppel]

Hi there,

Hate to ask, but does it cost anymore for the extra voices?

As far as Lion goes, I think it is a matter of getting used to some of the 
changes.

Chris
On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:03 PM, David Tanner wrote:

> Well, I got there by going to System Preferences and then to the Speech 
> settings.  When I got the list of voice choices I chose a voice that had not 
> been available in Snow Leopard to be my System voice.  Once I took an OK on 
> the change I was prompted whether I wanted to download that voice.  I 
> answered yes and the entire group of voices apparently got downloaded since 
> it was almost a 400 meg download.  Once it was downloaded I was prompted as 
> to whether I wanted to go ahead and install them or install them later. I 
> answered yes to go ahead and install the package and the "multi-lingual" 
> package was installed.
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Ed Worrell" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
> Subject: getting more voices for 10.7
> 
> 
>> Hello, I was wundering if anyone knew where to find, the place to download 
>> the new voices for Lion.
>> 
>> Thanks ED
>> 
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Re: getting more voices for 10.7

[Teresa Cochran]

Nope. I just downloaded eleven voices for free, including the English Indian 
one and the Scottish and Irish. Also, I downloaded Italian, since I'm learning 
some Italian songs. Very fun. :) They do take up quite a bit of space, however.

Teresa
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:43 AM, Christopher Peppel wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> Hate to ask, but does it cost anymore for the extra voices?
> 
> As far as Lion goes, I think it is a matter of getting used to some of the 
> changes.
> 
> Chris
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:03 PM, David Tanner wrote:
> 
>> Well, I got there by going to System Preferences and then to the Speech 
>> settings.  When I got the list of voice choices I chose a voice that had not 
>> been available in Snow Leopard to be my System voice.  Once I took an OK on 
>> the change I was prompted whether I wanted to download that voice.  I 
>> answered yes and the entire group of voices apparently got downloaded since 
>> it was almost a 400 meg download.  Once it was downloaded I was prompted as 
>> to whether I wanted to go ahead and install them or install them later. I 
>> answered yes to go ahead and install the package and the "multi-lingual" 
>> package was installed.
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Ed Worrell" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:42 PM
>> Subject: getting more voices for 10.7
>> 
>> 
>>> Hello, I was wundering if anyone knew where to find, the place to download 
>>> the new voices for Lion.
>>> 
>>> Thanks ED
>>> 
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drag and drop

[Ronald McEwan]

I cannot find the documentation on the new drag & drop.  Can someone point me 
to the details not the overview that states you can do it? 



In the Journey, 

Ron

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Re: all these issues

[Ricardo Walker]

In a word, No.  lol.  At least in my opinion.  The mail issues are very real.  
You can get around most of them but issues they are.  But besides mail, I don't 
think there's much to complain about.  And keep in mind, one something as big 
as a new OS comes out, most posts are going to be people needing help.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:

> To speak frankly, all these issues I'm reading about, (especially the issues 
> with mail) make me wonder now just whether or not I should pay $29.95 and 
> upgrade to Lion or not.  Could it quite possibly be that all these problems 
> people are having result from trying to learn a new OS without having much in 
> the way of manuals or guidance?  Could it quite possibly be that there are 
> faster and better ways of doing things than have been found so far?  Now 
> somewhat skeptical.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> 
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> 
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
> 
> Facebook:
> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Is there a quick and easy way aside from the obvious of launching it from 
the application's folder, to bring up launch pad?


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Zachary Kline" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Launchpad


Hi,
THe Dock itself has some improvements in Lion as well, such as the reading 
of iOS-like badges and access to stacks in other modes than simply via a 
menu.  I highly recommend it.

Best,
Zack.
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:32 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

I'm inclined simply to use the dock instead of the launchpad, but I may 
still explore it and see how it works.


Teresa
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:18 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

Ok, pardon my total and utter ignorance here, but are we *really* 
supposed to be able to move applications around? After all, they are all 
placed in the same folder and the launch pad should reflect that folder, 
right? Or is there something obvious i have missed as usual?

/Krister
21 jul 2011 kl. 16:00 skrev Ronald McEwan:

That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't 
usually have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around 
with my finger finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab. 
It worked just fine.



In the Journey,

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:


Daniel,
There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad 
doesn't seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he 
detailed some of his reasons.

Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: Launchpad

[Ricardo Walker]

Yup,

It works its just worthless.  lol.  Its just basically viewing apps in a grid 
view.

Ricardo Walker
rwalker...@gmail.com
Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
www.mobileaccess.org

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

> Daniel,
> There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad doesn't 
> seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he detailed some of 
> his reasons.
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: Launchpad

[Ronald McEwan]

Set it up as a commander option in which ever one you like. 



In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:52 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Is there a quick and easy way aside from the obvious of launching it from the 
> application's folder, to bring up launch pad?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Zachary Kline" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Launchpad
> 
> 
> Hi,
> THe Dock itself has some improvements in Lion as well, such as the reading of 
> iOS-like badges and access to stacks in other modes than simply via a menu.  
> I highly recommend it.
> Best,
> Zack.
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:32 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
>> I'm inclined simply to use the dock instead of the launchpad, but I may 
>> still explore it and see how it works.
>> 
>> Teresa
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:18 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, pardon my total and utter ignorance here, but are we *really* supposed 
>>> to be able to move applications around? After all, they are all placed in 
>>> the same folder and the launch pad should reflect that folder, right? Or is 
>>> there something obvious i have missed as usual?
>>> /Krister
>>> 21 jul 2011 kl. 16:00 skrev Ronald McEwan:
>>> 
 That was one persons oppinion.  I just turned on track commander, don't 
 usually have it on, and went to LaunchPad.  I was able to move around with 
 my finger finding the app I wanted to launch and then double tab. It 
 worked just fine.
 
 
 In the Journey,
 
 Ron
 
 On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:57 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
 
> Daniel,
> There was a post on this list from someone who said that launchpad 
> doesn't seem to be a very useful tool for blind folks, and then he 
> detailed some of his reasons.
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
 
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Re: drag and drop

[Teresa Cochran]

Hi, Ron,

It's in the VO online help, under drag and drop. It was simply added there, it 
looks like. Mark what you want to drag with VO-comma, go to the place you want 
to put it, and place it with VO-period. You can place it before an item with 
VO-less-than-sign, or after with VO-greater-than.

HTH,
Teresa
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Ronald McEwan wrote:

> I cannot find the documentation on the new drag & drop.  Can someone point me 
> to the details not the overview that states you can do it? 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Journey, 
> 
> Ron
> 
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Re: all these issues

[Teresa Cochran]

I think it's simply a matter of getting used to new ways of doing things, as 
happens with any change. I'm quite happy, even with mail. I like the new way of 
navigating it. It's more like navigating a webpage in Safari now. I know I can 
change it, but I'm going to keep using it this way and see if I get used to it. 
The only problem I'm having is downloading the install again, so I can put it 
onto a DVD. I didn't realize it would self-destruct. I've gotten download 
errors, but assume that's the servers going nuts.

Anyway, the gist is that change is always a gamble, IMO …

Teresa
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> In a word, No.  lol.  At least in my opinion.  The mail issues are very real. 
>  You can get around most of them but issues they are.  But besides mail, I 
> don't think there's much to complain about.  And keep in mind, one something 
> as big as a new OS comes out, most posts are going to be people needing help.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> 
>> To speak frankly, all these issues I'm reading about, (especially the issues 
>> with mail) make me wonder now just whether or not I should pay $29.95 and 
>> upgrade to Lion or not.  Could it quite possibly be that all these problems 
>> people are having result from trying to learn a new OS without having much 
>> in the way of manuals or guidance?  Could it quite possibly be that there 
>> are faster and better ways of doing things than have been found so far?  Now 
>> somewhat skeptical.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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RE: Midi playback in lion

[Missy Hoppe]

Hi there! I'd love to try that, but unfortunately, I've never gotten garage 
band to open a midi. it just won't do it; doesn't
seem to recognize them at all. If you could please tell me what I'm missing, 
I'd really appreciate it. I'm still baffled with
regards to what changed in quicktime or just the quick view to make the 
playback quality so awful, though. It just doesn't
make sense especially since no other audio seems to be affected. Thank you very 
much for your suggestion, and I hope that
you're still having a wonderful day!
Missy

  _  

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:26 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Midi playback in lion


Hi Missy, I am having a good morning actually, thanks for commenting.  Have you 
thought about trying to use Garage Band to
play your midi files?  by far and away, it works perfectly!  It takes a lot of 
getting used to, I won't deny it, but once you
get the hang of it, it's the best thing since white on rice!
 
Chris.
 

- Original Message - 
From: Missy Hoppe   
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:40 AM
Subject: Midi playback in lion

Hello, all! Like many of you, I ended up installing Lion yesterday. Everything 
went surprisingly smoothly, and on the whole,
I don't regret the update at all. I switched mail to the classic view for now, 
and once things slow down a bit on this list,
I will probably transfer my membership to my gmail address so that I can get a 
bit of practice using apple mail. I'm writing
this on the PC, though, so that if I get a response, I'll be able to find and 
archive it a bit more easily. Anyway, I
digress.
So far, in my admittedly limited playing around with Lion, I'm very impressed. 
Boot time seems a bit slower than it used to
be, and I really wish there was a way to regain the space created by that 
recovery partician, but neither of those things are
particularly bothering me at this point. I am, however, having 1 frustrating 
problem which is slightly bizarre, and is
probably concerning me a lot more than it really should.
I still enjoy listening to midi files quite often. I don't play a keyboard, but 
I used to have fun changing instruments in
midis to make them sound better. I understand that that particular hobby isn't 
an option as there is probably no affordible
software out there that will let me do what I want, but that's not important 
right now. When I first got my macbook in May, I
learned that I could use quicklook and/or quicktime 7 to play midis. I was 
very, very impressed with the way midis played on
the mac; they sounded better than they did on my PC. Unfortunately, this is no 
longer the case under Lion. I have no idea
what changed, but midi volume is very quiet. It almost sounds as though the 
files are being played through non-existent rear
speakers or something. It's hard to explain, but it's almost like the volume is 
being kept low by some kind of AGC leveling
software. Every time a note tries to play normally, it quickly fades away. I 
think the only way to fully appreciate the
problem is to hear it in person. I've checked volume everywhere, and it's all 
set to 100 percent so far as I can tell. This
problem doesn't occur when playing mp3 files or anything else so far as I can 
tell, which makes it all the more baffling. I
tried going into audio midi configuration in the utilities apps, but I only got 
confused, and VO crashed a couple of times.
So, if anyone has any ideas what might be happening, I'd really appreciate some 
help with this. I'm not saying the problem is
bad enough that I'd go back to snow leopard to fix it, but so far, it's the 
only disappointment that I've found with Lion.
As I said, any assistance you can provide would be extremely appreciated. Thank 
you very much for your time, and I hope that
everyone is having a wonderful day!
Missy



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Re: VMWare Fusion and Lion

working just fine over here
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:23 AM, Emilio S. Hernandez wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Enjoying the lion discussion so far.
> Does anyone happen to know if VMWare works with lion?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from Emilio's iPhone.
> 
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Re: helpful VO MP3 files

[Mary Otten]

Thank you, Ron, for posting the helpful demo files. I am impressed with the 
implementation of Samantha. I never thought I'd say that. She's never been a 
favorite of mine. I prefer male voices and still like Alex. But she didn't 
sound so angry on the demo you posted as she does on the I-devices or even the 
Kindle for pc. 

Mary

Mary Otten
motte...@gmail.com


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Re: helpful VO MP3 files

[Ronald McEwan]

Samantha with the upcoming Ios 5 is much better also.  


In the Journey, 

Ron

On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

> Thank you, Ron, for posting the helpful demo files. I am impressed with the 
> implementation of Samantha. I never thought I'd say that. She's never been a 
> favorite of mine. I prefer male voices and still like Alex. But she didn't 
> sound so angry on the demo you posted as she does on the I-devices or even 
> the Kindle for pc. 
> 
> Mary
> 
> Mary Otten
> motte...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Lion has potential, but...

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I will start by saying, at this given time, I see no reason for me to 
downgrade back to 10.6, however, I do have some initial thoughts.


I am not exactly the most fond either of how Mail now works.  It's ok, I 
recken, but it takes some getting used to.  I don't think I can really be 
specific.  I think it's more just a different look/feel in general, more in 
a whole, and thus it's just a little bit awquard.  I'll get it, it's just 
gonna take a little bit of time.


I love! ab, suh, lootly? love!  the new single letter navigation with Quick 
Nav.  The only thing I do not like is I've noticed when navigating headings 
on a web page, if I hit h then very quickly interupt speech, and hit it 
again, it usually doesn't move, unless I wait about 2 or so seconds between 
hitting the key.  This I find somewhat annoying.


ITunes is now a complete mess! in my view.  You cannot hear the content of 
your text view list in your music table, unless you interact with the table, 
then vo+right arrow over to the name column.  The grid view tends to be a 
bit sluggish when navigating the whole library without narrowing things down 
with the search box.  Unless you narrow things down with a search, you might 
as well totally! forget navigating the music text view table area unless 
your library is fairly small.  I'm unsure at this time if maybe it has to 
migrate your library and is re-encoding things, or maybe redownloading 
artwork, etc.  I doubt it though as if I don't play anything but just open 
the app, there isn't an LCD section to interact with, which tells me it's 
really not doing anything.


I love the ability of the new voices.  I'm not so fond of their size, and 
how much quality you lose through the compact versions, but, I do have to 
give credit to the fact these voices are high quality, so they're not 
exactly meant! to be small, in Apple's defense, and in all fairness.


I've not tested the Adium issue people stated earlier about if the new 
voices are loaded, events not reading.  That would be really aggervating if 
so.  I wonder if there is maybe an Adium update that may  fix this.  I'm not 
even sure Apple needs to fix this issue.  that might be more on the Adium 
developers.


I've never noticed that apple.com whatever thing coming up at start up that 
you all mention.


The ability to remember window states upon quitting is down, flippen right, 
the worst thing I think they've done.  What if a program is in an 
unopperable state.  OK, just quit it, right?...


Wrong!

Yeah, you try that and see what it does!  You'll land right back where you 
were before you quit the app.  O, K. Yes, I have heard about hitting 
option+command+Q instead of just command+Q, but that doesn't work.  the only 
way to get around this that I have found is to make sure you're not 
interacting with a single thing in the entire app, then vo+home, and then 
vo+left arrow until you get to the close button.  Once there, route the 
mouse with vo+command+F5, then, while holding the option key down, again, I 
said option, not control, that was notta typo.  I meant what I said very 
purposefully.  While holding the option key down, click the actual physical 
mouse/track pad with track pad commander turned off.  If you don't havfe a 
mouse, oh, jee, well, I'm sorry to inform you, you're s o l, then.  So, on 
that note, gag me with a spoon, why don't ya!  Oh yeah, there is the check 
box you can uncheck to remember restored windows states which is in system 
prefs/general, but I'm telling you now, don't even attempt.  You're waisting 
your time.  The box seems to be broken something fierce.  I have! escolated 
this to Apple engineering, and I have a senior advisor who's suposed to be 
getting back with me at some point in time with a hopeful resolution.  For 
now though, it's broken, trust me.  Frankly, not to brag, but right now, I 
got everyone at apple in that particular call center pretty stumped 
according to what the advisor told me.


Finally, I have a friend who's got a packmate 40 braille display.  He tells 
me that he has to stop voiceover and unload then reload it to switch braille 
tables, and when switching to a language that doesn't use the A B C latin 
based alphabet, he's seeing nothing but question marks on the display.  He 
tried this both with the Greek, and with the Arabic tables using scriptural 
texts found on biblegateway.org


I love! the way Alix now pronounces things a bit more clearly.  It's suddle, 
yes, but it is there.


Did anyone notice? Though spelled the same way, v, e, r, b, o, c, i, t, y, 
that normally alex says "verbocity" just like before, but that if you go 
into the activity area of the Vo utility he'll say it more verbawlcity? 
Why!  Is that not bazaar?


Anyway, so those are my first impressions.

Chris. 


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Re: The lion sleeps tonight

Now how would one do a clean install of Lion?  I have a friend who would like 
to do this, and I helped him burn lion to a DVD, now what does he do? Thanks.
Kliphton SR
(twitter) http://twitter.com/kliphton72
(Marriage Blog) http://cm-i-t-real-world.blogspot.com
Sent from my IMac

On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> OMG Donna!  What a horror show.
> 
> It sounds like you might want to do a clean install of Lion.  This isn't 
> normal behavior at all.
> 
> The only one of your experiences I've shared is the butchering of iTunes.  I 
> think this is more do to the new iTunes than Lion though. 
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rwalker...@gmail.com
> Twitter & Skype: rwalker296
> www.mobileaccess.org
> 
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ricardo,
>> 
>> I'm finding VO to be *very sluggish.  It seems like its speaking items a 
>> good half second after I initiate an action.
>> 
>> I also don't seem to be able to close apps any more.  When I think I've 
>> closed an app, if I try and open it later, VO says "App x is running in the 
>> background."  I presume one has to close apps from the launchpad now or 
>> something, but that seems much more cumbersome than just being able to press 
>> Cmd-Q.
>> 
>> iTunes is *ungodly slow, honestly, it's as bad as being on a Windows 
>> machine.  And you don't seem to be able to scroll down through your list of 
>> songs any more, though this may be part of the speed issue.
>> 
>> Lastly, VO doesn't seem to track very well.  For example, when I open an 
>> app, I'm taken to the desktop, and have to perform a Cmd-tab to actually get 
>> myself into the app.
>> 
>> Lastly, I installed Samantha, but gave up on her.  I'm now back with 
>> Victoria.  Samantha was not indicating sentence endings at all.  If there 
>> was a period, she just went right on reading with no pause or inflection, as 
>> though the period wasn't even there.
>> As I've said, I was gone most of last night, so haven't had a ton of time to 
>> sort through things yet.  But those are some of the things I'm not liking at 
>> the moment.  As I think Zack said, hopefully there will be an update that 
>> will address some of these things.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:28 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah.
>>> 
>>> I've caught this thread in the middle.  besides Mail, what bad experiences 
>>> are you having?
>>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> 
 Well, that is why I said at this point.  But so far, I haven't changed my 
 mind.  The features you mentioned are nice, but not sure they outweigh the 
 disadvantages I've seen so far.  Again, JMO.
 Donna
 
 On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:22 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> What about activities?  I think the ability to create a voiceover profile 
> for individual apps is a really good feature.  And being able to navigate 
> the web with 1 letter navigation when using quick nav.  So instead of 
> pressing VO command H to go to the next heading for example, you can just 
> press the letter H.
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bryan,
>> 
>> At this point, the only reason I see for upgrading is the voices in 
>> other languages.  Just my opinion, of course.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 20, 2011, at 6:40 PM, Brian Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> I haven't seen anyone say one way or the other whether or not one ought 
>>> to
>>> download and install Lion... Can we be certain it is the best thing for
>>> those of us who use Voice Over?  What are the changes?  What are the
>>> benefits?  
>>> 
>>> I'm a little reluctant to just download Lion because it is there.  
>>> 
>>> What happens if I don't download it?
>>> 
>>> Brian Miller
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>>

Re: Lion has potential, but...

[Krister Ekstrom]

I haven't noticed anything that could be wrong with ITunes, other than that 
letter navigation in the browser seems to be broken. It has been so before. Was 
it a dealb breaker then? No it wasn't. Is it a deal breaker now? No it isn't. 
iTunes seems to be very sluggish sometimes, but then again, it has never been 
the fastest program in the world.
That remembering the window position, i haven't seen, but then again i haven't 
seen everything, and probably never will.:-)
/Krister

21 jul 2011 kl. 17:19 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland:

> I will start by saying, at this given time, I see no reason for me to 
> downgrade back to 10.6, however, I do have some initial thoughts.
> 
> I am not exactly the most fond either of how Mail now works.  It's ok, I 
> recken, but it takes some getting used to.  I don't think I can really be 
> specific.  I think it's more just a different look/feel in general, more in a 
> whole, and thus it's just a little bit awquard.  I'll get it, it's just gonna 
> take a little bit of time.
> 
> I love! ab, suh, lootly? love!  the new single letter navigation with Quick 
> Nav.  The only thing I do not like is I've noticed when navigating headings 
> on a web page, if I hit h then very quickly interupt speech, and hit it 
> again, it usually doesn't move, unless I wait about 2 or so seconds between 
> hitting the key.  This I find somewhat annoying.
> 
> ITunes is now a complete mess! in my view.  You cannot hear the content of 
> your text view list in your music table, unless you interact with the table, 
> then vo+right arrow over to the name column.  The grid view tends to be a bit 
> sluggish when navigating the whole library without narrowing things down with 
> the search box.  Unless you narrow things down with a search, you might as 
> well totally! forget navigating the music text view table area unless your 
> library is fairly small.  I'm unsure at this time if maybe it has to migrate 
> your library and is re-encoding things, or maybe redownloading artwork, etc.  
> I doubt it though as if I don't play anything but just open the app, there 
> isn't an LCD section to interact with, which tells me it's really not doing 
> anything.
> 
> I love the ability of the new voices.  I'm not so fond of their size, and how 
> much quality you lose through the compact versions, but, I do have to give 
> credit to the fact these voices are high quality, so they're not exactly 
> meant! to be small, in Apple's defense, and in all fairness.
> 
> I've not tested the Adium issue people stated earlier about if the new voices 
> are loaded, events not reading.  That would be really aggervating if so.  I 
> wonder if there is maybe an Adium update that may  fix this.  I'm not even 
> sure Apple needs to fix this issue.  that might be more on the Adium 
> developers.
> 
> I've never noticed that apple.com whatever thing coming up at start up that 
> you all mention.
> 
> The ability to remember window states upon quitting is down, flippen right, 
> the worst thing I think they've done.  What if a program is in an unopperable 
> state.  OK, just quit it, right?...
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> Yeah, you try that and see what it does!  You'll land right back where you 
> were before you quit the app.  O, K. Yes, I have heard about hitting 
> option+command+Q instead of just command+Q, but that doesn't work.  the only 
> way to get around this that I have found is to make sure you're not 
> interacting with a single thing in the entire app, then vo+home, and then 
> vo+left arrow until you get to the close button.  Once there, route the mouse 
> with vo+command+F5, then, while holding the option key down, again, I said 
> option, not control, that was notta typo.  I meant what I said very 
> purposefully.  While holding the option key down, click the actual physical 
> mouse/track pad with track pad commander turned off.  If you don't havfe a 
> mouse, oh, jee, well, I'm sorry to inform you, you're s o l, then.  So, on 
> that note, gag me with a spoon, why don't ya!  Oh yeah, there is the check 
> box you can uncheck to remember restored windows states which is in system 
> prefs/general, but I'm telling you now, don't even attempt.  You're waisting 
> your time.  The box seems to be broken something fierce.  I have! escolated 
> this to Apple engineering, and I have a senior advisor who's suposed to be 
> getting back with me at some point in time with a hopeful resolution.  For 
> now though, it's broken, trust me.  Frankly, not to brag, but right now, I 
> got everyone at apple in that particular call center pretty stumped according 
> to what the advisor told me.
> 
> Finally, I have a friend who's got a packmate 40 braille display.  He tells 
> me that he has to stop voiceover and unload then reload it to switch braille 
> tables, and when switching to a language that doesn't use the A B C latin 
> based alphabet, he's seeing nothing but question marks on the display.  He 
> tried this both with the Gre

RE: Lion has potential, but...

[Missy Hoppe]

Hi! Thanks for sharing your first impressions. I don't use itunes; 
haven't quite figured that out yet, so I can't
testify to the issues with that. I'm using mail just fine, although I confess 
that I did switch to classic view. It doesn't
seem sluggish at all, but then again, I only have a single pop 3 account, and 
for now, minimal messages go to that account.
Once I'm more comfortable with using it, I plan to route my messages from this 
list to the mac, but I want to be more
familiar with things first. I haven't tried saphari yet, but plan to do so 
later.
I love the new voices, Lee and Karen in particular, although I find it humorous 
that Karen can't pronounce her own name.
Typing echo with Alex seems a bit quirky, but the new voices keep up fairly 
well. I am going to go and disable autocorrect as
soon as I post this message, though; it's very annoying, especially if I'm 
trying to type a tweet.
I've already started threads regarding my two biggest concerns, and those 
issues still hold true. Over all, I don't regret
updating, and probably won't go back to SL because I'm too much of an apple 
newbie to spot most of the issues mentioned here.
With that being said, however, there is a part of me that is wishing I would 
have stuck with my original plan of giving it a
few days/weeks and waiting for some tutorials and stuff to be released. Still, 
I made a DVD  and even a flashdrive backup of
the lion install, and have a CCC backup of my HD immediately prior to the lion 
install, so if things get too unbearable, I
can always  revert to SL. Like I said, though, I probably won't do that as 
neither of my issues are deal breakers, exactly,
just major annoyances. I will probably call my cousin who works for apple at 
some point, but at  the moment, I'm not exactly
sure what I'd ask him about. I'm sorry that you and some other folks are having 
much more serious issues with Lion than the
ones I've discovered, but hopefully apple will get everything fixed fairly soon.
For now, I'm off to listen to these files that were just posted.
Missy


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Lion has potential, but...

I will start by saying, at this given time, I see no reason for me to
downgrade back to 10.6, however, I do have some initial thoughts.

I am not exactly the most fond either of how Mail now works.  It's ok, I
recken, but it takes some getting used to.  I don't think I can really be
specific.  I think it's more just a different look/feel in general, more in
a whole, and thus it's just a little bit awquard.  I'll get it, it's just
gonna take a little bit of time.

I love! ab, suh, lootly? love!  the new single letter navigation with Quick
Nav.  The only thing I do not like is I've noticed when navigating headings
on a web page, if I hit h then very quickly interupt speech, and hit it
again, it usually doesn't move, unless I wait about 2 or so seconds between
hitting the key.  This I find somewhat annoying.

ITunes is now a complete mess! in my view.  You cannot hear the content of
your text view list in your music table, unless you interact with the table,
then vo+right arrow over to the name column.  The grid view tends to be a
bit sluggish when navigating the whole library without narrowing things down
with the search box.  Unless you narrow things down with a search, you might
as well totally! forget navigating the music text view table area unless
your library is fairly small.  I'm unsure at this time if maybe it has to
migrate your library and is re-encoding things, or maybe redownloading
artwork, etc.  I doubt it though as if I don't play anything but just open
the app, there isn't an LCD section to interact with, which tells me it's
really not doing anything.

I love the ability of the new voices.  I'm not so fond of their size, and
how much quality you lose through the compact versions, but, I do have to
give credit to the fact these voices are high quality, so they're not
exactly meant! to be small, in Apple's defense, and in all fairness.

I've not tested the Adium issue people stated earlier about if the new
voices are loaded, events not reading.  That would be really aggervating if
so.  I wonder if there is maybe an Adium update that may  fix this.  I'm not
even sure Apple needs to fix this issue.  that might be more on the Adium
developers.

I've never noticed that apple.com whatever thing coming up at start up that
you all mention.

The ability to remember window states upon quitting is down, flippen right,
the worst thing I think they've done.  What if a program is in an
unopperable state.  OK, just quit it, right?...

Wrong!

Yeah, you try that and see what it does!  You'll land right back where you
were before you quit the app.  O, K. Yes, I have heard about hitting
option+command+Q instead of just