'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

Hello,

I would like to have a custom accidental style acting like manuscripts 
and first editions of Seb. Bach do:

– do not remember accidentals*
– unless a pitch is immediately repeated
– or with chromatic steps: an accidental should always be printed if the 
previous note has the same pitch, but a different alteration.
I find the mechanism for defining accidental styles difficult (see 
); can 
anyone help with this? It might be a modification of 'forget.


Yours, Simon

* except of course those in the key signature

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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

I am not sure what you want to get. For a modern piece of music I have 
tried some different styles of accidentials that LP provides. In this 
example I used a part of Satie theme (as far as I remember?).


%%%

\\version "2.16.2"

Noten = {

\relative c' {

\time 2/4

{

ais4 cis |

ges4 dis'4|

{gis,8 d'} c dis |

}

}

}

\new Staff {

\tempo "default"

%# (set-accidental-style 'default)

\accidentalStyle default

\Noten

}

\new Staff {

\tempo "modern"

%# (set-accidental-style 'modern)

\accidentalStyle modern

\Noten

}

\new Staff {

\tempo "dodecaphonic"

%# (set-accidental-style 'dodecaphonic)

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

\Noten

}

\new Staff {

\tempo "teaching"

%# (set-accidental-style 'teaching)

\accidentalStyle teaching

\Noten

}

%%%






On 06.12.2015 15:31, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Hello,

I would like to have a custom accidental style acting like manuscripts 
and first editions of Seb. Bach do:

– do not remember accidentals*
– unless a pitch is immediately repeated
– or with chromatic steps: an accidental should always be printed if 
the previous note has the same pitch, but a different alteration.
I find the mechanism for defining accidental styles difficult (see 
); 
can anyone help with this? It might be a modification of 'forget.


Yours, Simon

* except of course those in the key signature

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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:
I am not sure what you want to get. For a modern piece of music I have 
tried some different styles of accidentials that LP provides. In this 
example I used a part of Satie theme (as far as I remember?).


Sorry, there is an error in the first line of my example code, may cause 
trouble:


\\version "2.16.2"


Must read
\version ...




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Re: 'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, as 
may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In other 
words, it should behave like forget in the first measure (i.e. not 
remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. distinguish 
chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on subsequent notes with 
identical pitch). (The last note only shows that it’s not dodecaphonic 
what I want.)


Yours, Simon

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Re: 'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

On 06.12.2015 15:31, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Hello,

I would like to have a custom accidental style acting like manuscripts 
and first editions of Seb. Bach do:
and, in fact, was common at the time. I think the assumption of our docs 
that the default style were corresponding to 18th century usage rather 
refers to 19th/20th century editions of 18th century music.

– do not remember accidentals*
– unless a pitch is immediately repeated
– or with chromatic steps: an accidental should always be printed if 
the previous note has the same pitch, but a different alteration.

To be more precise: the same _step_, but a different alteration.
I find the mechanism for defining accidental styles difficult (see 
); 
can anyone help with this? It might be a modification of 'forget.


Yours, Simon

* except of course those in the key signature

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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, as 
may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure (i.e. 
not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on subsequent 
notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows that it’s not 
dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon


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Re: 'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

On 06.12.2015 16:28, BB wrote:

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



My goodness, that was an _example_! No, the whole point of this is to 
_not_ make any changes to the actual music, but having _one_ accidental 
style to do it automatically. Else I’d be using explicit accidentals, 
but that’s tedious and inflexible.


Yours, Simon




On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, as 
may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure (i.e. 
not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on subsequent 
notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows that it’s not 
dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon





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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm

...
In 18th century music-writing, an accidental was not in effect for an 
entire measure but applied only to the note immediately following the 
accidental. This has caused some confusion in many editions. Bach 
occasionally forgot to write the accidentals himself and added them 
later below the notes when there was not room to write them before the 
notes.

...


On 06.12.2015 16:35, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 16:28, BB wrote:

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



My goodness, that was an _example_! No, the whole point of this is to 
_not_ make any changes to the actual music, but having _one_ 
accidental style to do it automatically. Else I’d be using explicit 
accidentals, but that’s tedious and inflexible.


Yours, Simon




On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, 
as may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure (i.e. 
not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on subsequent 
notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows that it’s not 
dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon







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Re: 'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

From studying Bach’s Clavierübung III from a first edition facsimile 
[1] I am well aware of the conventions.


On 06.12.2015 16:40, BB wrote:

http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm

...
In 18th century music-writing, an accidental was not in effect for an 
entire measure but applied only to the note immediately following the 
accidental.


If this were true, we could indeed just use \accidentalStyle forget. But 
there are the two exceptions, which I already described in my initial 
post. Sigh.


This has caused some confusion in many editions. Bach occasionally 
forgot to write the accidentals himself and added them later below the 
notes when there was not room to write them before the notes.


Often it has nothing to do with him ‘forgetting’ the accidentals, but 
with saving space.
But I’m less interested in discussing the notational convention. My 
request was about the technical implementation, in case you didn’t notice.


Yours, Simon


...


On 06.12.2015 16:35, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 16:28, BB wrote:

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



My goodness, that was an _example_! No, the whole point of this is to 
_not_ make any changes to the actual music, but having _one_ 
accidental style to do it automatically. Else I’d be using explicit 
accidentals, but that’s tedious and inflexible.


Yours, Simon




On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, 
as may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure 
(i.e. not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on 
subsequent notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows 
that it’s not dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon









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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

On 06.12.2015 16:40, BB wrote:

http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm

...
In 18th century music-writing, an accidental was not in effect for an 
entire measure but applied only to the note immediately following the 
accidental. This has caused some confusion in many editions. Bach 
occasionally forgot to write the accidentals himself and added them 
later below the notes when there was not room to write them before the 
notes.

...


Soem more information about baroque notation from my link archive

http://www.henle.de/blog/en/2014/05/12/best-until-how-long-does-an-accidental-last/ 



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Re: 'bach accidental style

[Simon Albrecht]

On 06.12.2015 16:47, Simon Albrecht wrote:
From studying Bach’s Clavierübung III from a first edition facsimile 
[1] I am well aware of the conventions.
Forgot the footnote: 



On 06.12.2015 16:40, BB wrote:

http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm

...
In 18th century music-writing, an accidental was not in effect for an 
entire measure but applied only to the note immediately following the 
accidental.


If this were true, we could indeed just use \accidentalStyle forget. 
But there are the two exceptions, which I already described in my 
initial post. Sigh.


This has caused some confusion in many editions. Bach occasionally 
forgot to write the accidentals himself and added them later below 
the notes when there was not room to write them before the notes.


Often it has nothing to do with him ‘forgetting’ the accidentals, but 
with saving space.
But I’m less interested in discussing the notational convention. My 
request was about the technical implementation, in case you didn’t 
notice.


Yours, Simon


...


On 06.12.2015 16:35, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 16:28, BB wrote:

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



My goodness, that was an _example_! No, the whole point of this is 
to _not_ make any changes to the actual music, but having _one_ 
accidental style to do it automatically. Else I’d be using explicit 
accidentals, but that’s tedious and inflexible.


Yours, Simon




On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already available, 
as may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure 
(i.e. not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on 
subsequent notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows 
that it’s not dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon









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Re: 'bach accidental style

[BB]

Sorry for noise.

On 06.12.2015 16:48, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 16:47, Simon Albrecht wrote:
From studying Bach’s Clavierübung III from a first edition facsimile 
[1] I am well aware of the conventions.
Forgot the footnote: 



On 06.12.2015 16:40, BB wrote:

http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm

...
In 18th century music-writing, an accidental was not in effect for 
an entire measure but applied only to the note immediately following 
the accidental.


If this were true, we could indeed just use \accidentalStyle forget. 
But there are the two exceptions, which I already described in my 
initial post. Sigh.


This has caused some confusion in many editions. Bach occasionally 
forgot to write the accidentals himself and added them later below 
the notes when there was not room to write them before the notes.


Often it has nothing to do with him ‘forgetting’ the accidentals, but 
with saving space.
But I’m less interested in discussing the notational convention. My 
request was about the technical implementation, in case you didn’t 
notice.


Yours, Simon


...


On 06.12.2015 16:35, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 16:28, BB wrote:

May be like this?
%

\version "2.19.32"

\relative {

%\accidentalStyle baroque

\accidentalStyle dodecaphonic

dis'4 cis dis fis

\accidentalStyle default

dis d cis c

dis dis e

} 



My goodness, that was an _example_! No, the whole point of this is 
to _not_ make any changes to the actual music, but having _one_ 
accidental style to do it automatically. Else I’d be using explicit 
accidentals, but that’s tedious and inflexible.


Yours, Simon




On 06.12.2015 16:12, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 06.12.2015 15:59, BB wrote:

I am not sure what you want to get.


What I want is not one of the accidental styles already 
available, as may be read from the word ‘custom’.

Let me give an example: this
%%
\version "2.19.32"
\relative {
  \accidentalStyle baroque
  dis'4 cis dis fis
  dis d cis c
  dis dis e
}
%%%

should print accidentals on all notes except for the last two. In 
other words, it should behave like forget in the first measure 
(i.e. not remember the dis), and from there on like default (i.e. 
distinguish chromatic pitches, and drop the accidental on 
subsequent notes with identical pitch). (The last note only shows 
that it’s not dodecaphonic what I want.)


Yours, Simon









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How to get predicates from markup-commands?

[Thomas Morley]

Hi all,

as an example I use the markup-command `with-color', which is defined
as (pseude-code)

(define-markup-command (with-color layout props color arg)
  (color? markup?)
  #:category other
  "DOC-STRING"
  
)

I can quite easily display:
(display (procedure-source with-color-markup))
though I'm interested in the predicates, i.e. (color? markup?)

Is there any way?


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: How to get predicates from markup-commands?

[David Kastrup]

Thomas Morley  writes:

> Hi all,
>
> as an example I use the markup-command `with-color', which is defined
> as (pseude-code)
>
> (define-markup-command (with-color layout props color arg)
>   (color? markup?)
>   #:category other
>   "DOC-STRING"
>   
> )
>
> I can quite easily display:
> (display (procedure-source with-color-markup))
> though I'm interested in the predicates, i.e. (color? markup?)
>
> Is there any way?

(markup-command-signature with-color-markup)

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: How to get predicates from markup-commands?

[Thomas Morley]

2015-12-06 19:09 GMT+01:00 David Kastrup :
> Thomas Morley  writes:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> as an example I use the markup-command `with-color', which is defined
>> as (pseude-code)
>>
>> (define-markup-command (with-color layout props color arg)
>>   (color? markup?)
>>   #:category other
>>   "DOC-STRING"
>>   
>> )
>>
>> I can quite easily display:
>> (display (procedure-source with-color-markup))
>> though I'm interested in the predicates, i.e. (color? markup?)
>>
>> Is there any way?
>
> (markup-command-signature with-color-markup)
>
> --
> David Kastrup

Works as:
(display (markup-command-signature with-color-markup))
or
(display (map procedure-name (markup-command-signature with-color-markup)))


Thanks,
  Harm

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Shrinking a part with its lyrics

[David Wright]

Hi, I sometimes set an accompanist's copy (merging/separating the
pedal, unfolding repeats, improving pageturns etc) and reduce the
pagecount by shrinking the vocal parts. The lyrics say it all: I'm
perplexed as to why they remain at full size in just the last
fragment. The notes shrink, as does the instrumentName, but not
the lyrics.

Cheers,
David.
\version "2.18.2"

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\override SystemStartBar.collapse-height = #1
  }
  \context {
\ChoirStaff
\override SystemStartBracket.collapse-height = #1
  }
}

top = { b4 d' f' a' }
bot = { b4 d' f' a' }
text = \lyricmode { \set stanza = "1." These are the words. }
whytext = \lyricmode { \set stanza = "2." Why are these big? }

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff \with {
fontSize = #-4 \override StaffSymbol.staff-space = #(magstep -4)
instrumentName = \markup { "A" }
  } <<
\new Staff \with {
  instrumentName = \markup { "B" }
} <<
  \new Voice { \top }
  \addlyrics { \text }
>>
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = \markup { "C" }
  \new Voice { \bot }
  \addlyrics { \text }
>>
  >>
}

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff \with {
fontSize = #-4 \override StaffSymbol.staff-space = #(magstep -4)
  } <<
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = \markup { "D" }
  \new Voice { \top }
  \addlyrics { \text }
>>
  >>
}

\score {
  \new Staff \with {
fontSize = #-4 \override StaffSymbol.staff-space = #(magstep -4)
  } <<
\set Staff.instrumentName = \markup { "E" }
\new Voice { \top }
\addlyrics { \whytext }
  >>
}


shrink.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: Shrinking a part with its lyrics

[Trevor Daniels]

David Wright wrote Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:11 PM


> Hi, I sometimes set an accompanist's copy (merging/separating the
> pedal, unfolding repeats, improving pageturns etc) and reduce the
> pagecount by shrinking the vocal parts. The lyrics say it all: I'm
> perplexed as to why they remain at full size in just the last
> fragment. The notes shrink, as does the instrumentName, but not
> the lyrics.

Because the Lyrics context is a child of the ChoirStaff context
but is not a child of the Staff context.  So properties assigned
to ChoirStaff are passed down to Lyrics, but this does not happen
for properties assigned to Staff.

Trevor
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Re: Why break doesn't work?

[Knute Snortum]

I can testify that about half of the time I'm creating a tiny example for
this list, I figure out the problem.


Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Simon Albrecht 
wrote:

> On 06.12.2015 02:12, Luca Danieli wrote:
>
>> Thank you Brian for your help.
>>
>> I tried to add \bar "" \break and still didn't have any effect.
>>
>> Just to understand, so to behave correctly in possible future questions:
>> what part of code should I post? All the 450 lines of my script?
>>
>
> Of course not, unless it’s the very minimum amount of code required to
> trigger the problem. Noeck already gave the link to the relevant
> instruction on ‘tiny examples’ on our website, which is just a very useful
> tool. Anyone from the list who will try to help (unless they see the
> problem at a glance) will have to do just the same. Often you’ll find the
> solution yourself while reducing the example, or at least understand better
> what the problem actually is.
> And, yes, it is a tedious task, especially with large scores… but you
> can’t expect others to fix your issue if you weren’t prepared to invest
> time yourself.
> I hope this makes clear that we are not being strict in order to scare you
> away, but that this is just the most sensible way to do it.
>
> Best, Simon
>
>
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Re: Shrinking a part with its lyrics

[David Wright]

On Sun 06 Dec 2015 at 23:49:57 (-), Trevor Daniels wrote:
> David Wright wrote Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:11 PM
> > Hi, I sometimes set an accompanist's copy (merging/separating the
> > pedal, unfolding repeats, improving pageturns etc) and reduce the
> > pagecount by shrinking the vocal parts. The lyrics say it all: I'm
> > perplexed as to why they remain at full size in just the last
> > fragment. The notes shrink, as does the instrumentName, but not
> > the lyrics.
> 
> Because the Lyrics context is a child of the ChoirStaff context
> but is not a child of the Staff context.  So properties assigned
> to ChoirStaff are passed down to Lyrics, but this does not happen
> for properties assigned to Staff.

OK, thanks; I've got some reading to do on inheritance. (I'm trying to
learn a bit more about the way LP is organised rather than just
boilerplating together what seems to work. Perhaps eventually I'll
even get into scheme a bit.)

Cheers,
David.

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putting music functions in markup

[Ryan Michael]

I would like to add  the engraving of

 in an editorial note
within the markup below an actual note event.

It simply needs to show the interval of a fifth and that the top
note has the harmonic note head.
How can I do that?
The following throws an error saying you can't add music functions in the
\markup{}
tag

-\markup{\italic "sempre" }

-- 
ॐ नमः शिवाय
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Re: putting music functions in markup

[Nick Payne]

On 7/12/2015 4:12 PM, Ryan Michael wrote:

I would like to add  the engraving of

 in an editorial note
within the markup below an actual note event.

It simply needs to show the interval of a fifth and that the top
note has the harmonic note head.
How can I do that?
The following throws an error saying you can't add music functions in 
the \markup{}

tag

-\markup{\italic "sempre" }


This is something I had as a footnote, but it works the same when 
attached as markup to a note:


\version "2.19.32"

\relative c''
{
  c4\prall_\markup\tiny {
"Execute all ornaments shown as" \raise #0.5 \musicglyph 
#"scripts.prall"

\translate #'(-0.5 . 0) "thus:" \raise #0.5
\score {
  \new Staff \with {
\remove "Time_signature_engraver"
fontSize = #-4
\override StaffSymbol.staff-space = #(magstep -4)
\override StaffSymbol.thickness = #(magstep -4)
firstClef = ##f
  }
  \relative c'' {
\slurDashed
\appoggiatura { d16[ c d] } c4
  }
  \layout {
indent = 0\cm
ragged-last = ##t
  }
}
  }
}

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