[gentoo-user] Showing installed packages that aren't in portage tree(s)
I used to think that eix did that.
After eixing back and forth for some non-existent
app-office/{kugar,koshell,kexi} (wouldn't show up on my eixes) that
was holding back my --depcleans of kdelibs:3.5 and
koffice-{libs,data}:3.5, then doubling back on the manual page, I
discovered it didn't :D
Is there an option or filter I could pass to qlist to find out which
packages are installed but not in the portage tree(s)? The qlist -ICv
suggestion from the eix man page only shows all installed packages. My
goal is to either remove them or put them in the local overlay.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Portage GUI interfaces...
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, BRM wrote: > I am interested in finding a GUI interface for working with portage, > preferably for KDE4. > Namely b/c I am getting a little tired of having konsole windows open and not > being able to keep track of where I am in the emerge update process - > something a GUI _ought_ to be able to resolve. This is one place where those quake-like terminals comes in handy. I use tilda, for KDE there's yakuake. Basically they allow you to press a single key and a terminal pops down from the top of the screen. I usually have one of those running all the time: I have a tab or two devote to emerges, another tab handling an SSH -X session to some other computer, and maybe a tab or two devoted to some command line tasks. Press a single key and it all goes out of sight. You'll probably want to run the compile in one screen session, then tail -f the emerge log in one of the tabs. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [x] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Showing installed packages that aren't in portage tree(s)
Just what I needed. Thanks!
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Dale wrote:
> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
>>
>> I used to think that eix did that.
>>
>> After eixing back and forth for some non-existent
>> app-office/{kugar,koshell,kexi} (wouldn't show up on my eixes) that
>> was holding back my --depcleans of kdelibs:3.5 and
>> koffice-{libs,data}:3.5, then doubling back on the manual page, I
>> discovered it didn't :D
>>
>> Is there an option or filter I could pass to qlist to find out which
>> packages are installed but not in the portage tree(s)? The qlist -ICv
>> suggestion from the eix man page only shows all installed packages. My
>> goal is to either remove them or put them in the local overlay.
>>
>
> I think "eix-test-obsolete -d" will do that. I don't have any installed
> that are not in portage at the moment so I can't test it to be sure.
>
> Be warned, this thing can output a LOT of stuff. If you are in a console,
> you may want to pipe to a text file or to less or something.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>
>
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Re: [gentoo-user] Showing installed packages that aren't in portage tree(s)
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Dale wrote: > chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: >> >> Just what I needed. Thanks! >> >> > > Let me also add that the output has changed. I tried to clean up some > package.* files a while back and it turned into a mess. Before you change a > file, make a backup just in case. It seems to list some things that maybe > it shouldn't. Maybe I am missing something somewhere but it isn't the way > it used to be. I need to run it and just sit and study the list and test > some things. There may be some rhyme or reason for what it is doing that I > just don't see yet Fear not, the redundant / missing flags in my package.xxx files are more of an out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing for me. I figure they're not breaking anything nor adding that much cruft by just being there. Crufty packages though, bug me, especially when they block my upgrades/revdeps/uninstalls. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [x] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
[gentoo-user] Any nice tools for emerge dependency resolution listing?
Hi! I'm wondering if anyone's written a script that looks deep into the build dependencies of some package foo, and gives you a list of ebuilds you need to unmask to build it. Immediate build dependencies could easily be shown using the ebuild itself, and deep dependencies could be shown using equery something, but I just want to focus on dependencies you need to unmask when building. I usually just manually iterate through emerge -uDNtav world/something to make something like that happen, and it's just hit me that this sounds like a chore that's bound to have bugged someone. I'm not looking for a tool that writes my package.keywords/* for me, I'd like to do that myself, but the iteration process is more painful than it should be "manually". If there's none I was wondering what kinds of challenges would it take to write one in python as that sounds like a cool exercise to try out. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Any nice tools for emerge dependency resolution listing?
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Wagener wrote: > > autounmask --pretend maybe? > > Thanks guys, I'll look into that a little later :) -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [ ] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Any nice tools for emerge dependency resolution listing?
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Dale wrote: > I'll add this as well. If you use autounmask and you have portage.unmask > and friends as a directory, it names each file and does them separately. > So, if you use it and don't like it, just delete the file and do something > else. > > If you still have package.unmask and friends as a file, it separates each > run into the file. It tells where it starts and where it ends so it is a > lot easier to delete things if you don't like or want something there > anymore. > > It's pretty neat. Beautiful! I'm trying it out right now... autounmask may be more organized than I ever was if I just keep targetting meta packages and manually unblocking key blockers. Anyone else have neat package.*/ organization tricks I haven't heard of? > > Dale > > :-) :-) > > -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [ ] none
[gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
Hi guys, Eix is one of those packages where you just set it and forget it, and apparently I've forgotten there was even anything to set. I have a home PC running gentoo. If I do eix foo, and foo happens to be keyworded unmasked in my package.keywords, I get for instance: [I] dev-python/snakeoil Available versions: (~)0.3.6.4 (~)0.3.6.5 (~)0.3.7 Installed versions: 0.3.7(07:34:54 PHT Saturday, 10 July, 2010) Homepage:http://www.pkgcore.org/ Description: Miscellaneous python utility code. I try the same on a relatively young gentoo server I'm managing and * dev-python/snakeoil Available versions: ~0.3.6.4 ~0.3.6.5 ~0.3.7 Homepage:http://www.pkgcore.org/ Description: Miscellaneous python utility code. It's unkeyworded, however, in my package.keywords in both machines: (home machine) madum...@trixie ~ $ grep snakeoil -r /etc/portage/package.keywords/ /etc/portage/package.keywords/autounmask-pkgcore:dev-python/snakeoil ~amd64 (server) mas...@zen ~ $ sudo grep -r snakeoil /etc/portage/package.keywords/ /etc/portage/package.keywords/system.keywords:dev-python/snakeoil ~x86 Apparently I'm missing some environment variable, but I can't for the life of me imagine how I've set it. madum...@trixie ~/store/HeCares/Photo upload functionality $ cat /etc/eixrc # /etc/eixrc # # In this file system-wide defaults for variables related to eix binaries # are stored, i.e. the variables set in this file override the built-in # defaults. Both can be overridden by ~/.eixrc and by environment variables. # # It is strongly recommended to set here only those variables which you # want to *differ* from the built-in defaults (or for which you have a # particular reason why the default should never change with an eix update). # # *Otherwise you might miss changes in the defaults in newer eix versions* # which may result in confusing behavior of the eix binaries. # # ebuilds of <=eix-0.10.3 (and >=eix-0.7.4) used to set *all* variables in # /etc/eixrc which is not recommended anymore. If you want to get such a file # (i.e. a file where all variables are described and set to the current # values resp. to the built-in default values) you can redirect the output # of the options --dump or --dump-defaults, respectively. # # However once more: To avoid unexpected problems # # *IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO SET _ALL_ VARIABLES* in /etc/eixrc # # Only set those for which you have a reason to do so! # # For the available variables and their defaults, see the output of the # options --dump or --dump-defaults. # For more detailed explanations see the manpage of eix. madum...@trixie ~/store/HeCares/Photo upload functionality $ cat /etc/eix-sync.conf # eix-sync.conf ## defines options to eix-sync, caching system for portage #layman overlays to be synced (* means all) * mas...@zen ~ $ cat /etc/eixrc # /etc/eixrc # # In this file system-wide defaults for variables related to eix binaries # are stored, i.e. the variables set in this file override the built-in # defaults. Both can be overridden by ~/.eixrc and by environment variables. # # It is strongly recommended to set here only those variables which you # want to *differ* from the built-in defaults (or for which you have a # particular reason why the default should never change with an eix update). # # *Otherwise you might miss changes in the defaults in newer eix versions* # which may result in confusing behavior of the eix binaries. # # ebuilds of <=eix-0.10.3 (and >=eix-0.7.4) used to set *all* variables in # /etc/eixrc which is not recommended anymore. If you want to get such a file # (i.e. a file where all variables are described and set to the current # values resp. to the built-in default values) you can redirect the output # of the options --dump or --dump-defaults, respectively. # # However once more: To avoid unexpected problems # # *IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO SET _ALL_ VARIABLES* in /etc/eixrc # # Only set those for which you have a reason to do so! # # For the available variables and their defaults, see the output of the # options --dump or --dump-defaults. # For more detailed explanations see the manpage of eix. mas...@zen ~ $ cat /etc/eix-sync.conf cat: /etc/eix-sync.conf: No such file or directory All comments for the both of them, so it must be a default I'm missing that's different for the 2 machines. Any ideas? -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
Re: [gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
diff between the eix --dump of my PC and the server
===
madum...@trixie ~ $ diff -Naur PC server
--- PC 2010-07-30 19:54:38.0 +0800
+++ server 2010-07-30 19:55:05.0 +0800
@@ -126,7 +126,7 @@
# STRING
# The path to the ebuild.sh executable.
-EXEC_EBUILD_SH="%{EPREFIX_PORTAGE_EXEC}/usr/lib64/portage/bin/ebuild.sh"
+EXEC_EBUILD_SH="%{EPREFIX_PORTAGE_EXEC}/usr/lib/portage/bin/ebuild.sh"
# STRING
# The path to the tempfile generated by "ebuild depend".
@@ -177,7 +177,7 @@
# STRING
# This variable is passed unchanged to ebuild.sh
# Usually ebuild.sh uses it to calculate the PATH.
-PORTAGE_ROOTPATH="/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.4"
+PORTAGE_ROOTPATH="/opt/bin:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.4:/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.4.4"
# STRING
# This variable is passed unchanged to ebuild.sh
===
Seems to be just paths, don't see why that would cause a problem.
Both machines are using portage 2.1.8.3
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Eix is one of those packages where you just set it and forget it, and
> apparently I've forgotten there was even anything to set.
>
> I have a home PC running gentoo. If I do eix foo, and foo happens to
> be keyworded unmasked in my package.keywords, I get for instance:
> [I] dev-python/snakeoil
> Available versions: (~)0.3.6.4 (~)0.3.6.5
> (~)0.3.7
> Installed versions: 0.3.7(07:34:54 PHT Saturday, 10 July, 2010)
> Homepage: http://www.pkgcore.org/
> Description: Miscellaneous python utility code.
>
> I try the same on a relatively young gentoo server I'm managing and
> * dev-python/snakeoil
> Available versions: ~0.3.6.4 ~0.3.6.5 ~0.3.7
> Homepage: http://www.pkgcore.org/
> Description: Miscellaneous python utility code.
>
> It's unkeyworded, however, in my package.keywords in both machines:
> (home machine)
> madum...@trixie ~ $ grep snakeoil -r /etc/portage/package.keywords/
> /etc/portage/package.keywords/autounmask-pkgcore:dev-python/snakeoil ~amd64
>
> (server)
> mas...@zen ~ $ sudo grep -r snakeoil /etc/portage/package.keywords/
> /etc/portage/package.keywords/system.keywords:dev-python/snakeoil ~x86
>
> Apparently I'm missing some environment variable, but I can't for the
> life of me imagine how I've set it.
>
> madum...@trixie ~/store/HeCares/Photo upload functionality $ cat /etc/eixrc
> # /etc/eixrc
> #
> # In this file system-wide defaults for variables related to eix binaries
> # are stored, i.e. the variables set in this file override the built-in
> # defaults. Both can be overridden by ~/.eixrc and by environment variables.
> #
> # It is strongly recommended to set here only those variables which you
> # want to *differ* from the built-in defaults (or for which you have a
> # particular reason why the default should never change with an eix update).
> #
> # *Otherwise you might miss changes in the defaults in newer eix versions*
> # which may result in confusing behavior of the eix binaries.
> #
> # ebuilds of <=eix-0.10.3 (and >=eix-0.7.4) used to set *all* variables in
> # /etc/eixrc which is not recommended anymore. If you want to get such a file
> # (i.e. a file where all variables are described and set to the current
> # values resp. to the built-in default values) you can redirect the output
> # of the options --dump or --dump-defaults, respectively.
> #
> # However once more: To avoid unexpected problems
> #
> # *IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO SET _ALL_ VARIABLES* in /etc/eixrc
> #
> # Only set those for which you have a reason to do so!
> #
> # For the available variables and their defaults, see the output of the
> # options --dump or --dump-defaults.
> # For more detailed explanations see the manpage of eix.
>
> madum...@trixie ~/store/HeCares/Photo upload functionality $ cat
> /etc/eix-sync.conf
> # eix-sync.conf
> ## defines options to eix-sync, caching system for portage
>
>
> #layman overlays to be synced (* means all)
> *
>
>
>
> mas...@zen ~ $ cat /etc/eixrc
> # /etc/eixrc
> #
> # In this file system-wide defaults for variables related to eix binaries
> # are stored, i.e. the variables set in this file override the built-in
> # defaults. Both can be overridden by ~/.eixrc and by environment variables.
> #
> # It is strongly recommended to set here only those variables which you
> # want to *differ* from the built-in defaults (or for which you have a
> # particular reason why the default should never change with an eix update).
> #
> # *Otherwise you might miss changes in the defaults in newer eix versions*
> # which may result in confu
Re: [gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Bill Longman wrote: > What does "eselect profile list" show you on both hosts? home PC madum...@trixie ~ $ eselect profile list Available profile symlink targets: [1] default/linux/amd64/10.0 [2] default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop * [3] default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop/gnome [4] default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop/kde [5] default/linux/amd64/10.0/developer [6] default/linux/amd64/10.0/no-multilib [7] default/linux/amd64/10.0/server [8] hardened/linux/amd64/10.0 [9] hardened/linux/amd64/10.0/no-multilib [10] selinux/2007.0/amd64 [11] selinux/2007.0/amd64/hardened [12] selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64 [13] selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/desktop [14] selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/developer [15] selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/hardened [16] selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/server server mas...@zen ~ $ sudo eselect profile list Available profile symlink targets: [1] default/linux/x86/10.0 * [2] default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop [3] default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/gnome [4] default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde [5] default/linux/x86/10.0/developer [6] default/linux/x86/10.0/server [7] hardened/linux/x86/10.0 [8] selinux/2007.0/x86 [9] selinux/2007.0/x86/hardened [10] selinux/v2refpolicy/x86 [11] selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/desktop [12] selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/developer [13] selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/hardened [14] selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/server I'm not that familiar with how the profile affects eix though.
Re: [gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Bill Longman wrote: > The profile affects the default USE settings. This is a very important > Gentoo concept. emerge --info eix on both machines: PC: app-portage/eix-0.20.5 was built with the following: USE="bzip2 (multilib) nls sqlite -debug -doc -hardened -optimization -strong-optimization -tools" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1" server: app-portage/eix-0.20.5 was built with the following: USE="bzip2 nls sqlite -debug -doc -hardened -optimization -strong-optimization -tools" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1" The only difference between the USE flags of both machines is that my local eix was built with multilib. I don't know any documentation references that say how that should affect eix output settings, which shouldn't be related. Just to clarify, emerge detects that the packages are keyworded on both machines. It's just not being outputted by eix. And there's no reason why multilib should cause eix to change the output settings. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
Re: [gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Bill Longman wrote: > I mean to say that the profile sets the *global* USE settings. If you > were to compare "euse -i" between the two machines, you would see that > some flags are "+D" and some are "+C", for instance. The ones that are > set by the profile are "+D". If you peruse the portage/profiles you'll > see that the make.defaults files are setting different USE values. Not > to mention that you are on different architectures between the two, so > some packages will be masked and some not depending upon the > architecture. It's not a matter of how eix was built, it's a matter of > the configuration of the host. > > Is that what you were trying to resolve? Or do I not understand your > question? Can you put a package mask in just *any* file below > package.keywords/ and as long as it matches it will be valid? I'm sorry, I think I wasn't very good at describing the problem. Let's say there is a package foo. Foo is keyworded, so if I try building it on either machine, portage complains saying it's masked. Now I unkeyword foo on both machines by adding it to /etc/portage/package.keywords/foo.keywords. When I run emerge on both machines portage will no longer complain and will build the keyworded package as intended. All's well. However, on one machine, eix reports that I have unkeyworded the package foo by printing parens around the keyword marker ~. On the other machine, eix does not report it. That is, the package is being effectively unmasked for emerge, but eix is not reporting the unmasking to me. So that's why I think it's either an eix configuration issue, or when you mentioned profile, checked the eix use flags. So my question was "what could I be missing in eix?" but if I'm wrong and it's not an eix thing then I'll happily take any suggestions.
Re: [gentoo-user] eix shows keyworded packages on home PC, but not on server
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Vaeth wrote: > [I know that the headers are wrong; sorry for that] > >> I try the same on a relatively young gentoo server I'm managing and >> * dev-python/snakeoil >> Available versions: ~0.3.6.4 ~0.3.6.5 ~0.3.7 > [...] >> It's unkeyworded, however > As I understand, you already compared the output of eix --dump. > I suppose you verified that this output was created in the same > environment (i.e. with the same user and the same environment > variables) in which you call eix later on? Thanks for the user tip. I forgot that I "hardened" the server by default umasking all accounts to 007 (something I don't do on the desktop), so eix couldn't read the /etc/portage/ files as a regular user, because I wrote them as root. So if I eix as root or using sudo (which I don't do), I get the parens, but if I don't, eix can't read the keyword files, so no parens. Interesting. So this one's solved now. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [x] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
[gentoo-user] layman -L does not show ecatmur, but I can layman -a ecatmur.
I'm currently dual-booting a machine that I'd like to shift completely to gentoo, but I left an ubuntu installaiton in the other disk (where I hope to transfer my gentoo). However, my brother has been downloading some torrents for weeks on end, and their sessions have been left alive in the gnome-btdownload interface. It gets annoying when he boots up to ubuntu sometimes because I often remotely login to my machine and all. So I thought to install gnome-btdownload. Unfortunately I couldnt find it in portage a few weeks ago, and I just forgot about it. Today I logged in remotely to my machine, remembered my old problem, and decided to hunt for an ebuild. I noticed that it's in the ecatmur tree, so I thought just to add it on layman and get it done with. TOTALLY WEIRD. I do a layman -L on my machine and strangely enough, ecatmur isn't listed. I think I've used it beore on layman though, so I look up the overlays listing on the gentoo overlays list, here: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/layman-global.txt Sure enough, ecatmur is present. So I just blindly go layman -a ecatmur and he gets added. I don't understand why layman wouldn't report ecatmur in his listing but accepts ecatmur there anyway when I add? Is this a bug? trixie / # layman --version 1.1.1 trixie / # emerge --version Portage 2.1.3.19 (default-linux/amd64/2007.0/desktop, gcc-4.1.2, glibc-2.6.1-r0, 2.6.22-ck1 x86_64) weird? I remember somewhere that there was something you had to edit to make the overlays appear in the listing, (the stock layman would only show a few entries I think). Maybe this is an extension of that idea but I couldn't find what to edit in the documentation. Any ideas? -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] layman -L does not show ecatmur, but I can layman -a ecatmur.
On Feb 12, 2008 10:52 PM, Willie Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 05:37:16PM +0800, Penguin Lover Mark David Dumlao > squawked: > > TOTALLY WEIRD. I do a layman -L on my machine and strangely enough, > ecatmur > > isn't listed. I think I've used it beore on layman though, so I look up > the > > overlays listing on the gentoo overlays list, here: > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/layman-global.txt > > > > Sure enough, ecatmur is present. So I just blindly go layman -a ecatmur > and > > he gets added. > > Did you run layman --fetch to update the overlays? > yep, and I'm still getting nothing doing with layman -L. -- thing.
[gentoo-user] gnome-btdownload and overlays
Hi guys I've been trying to get gnome-btdownload running off and on for a while now but no joy. I saw an ebuild in the ecatmur overlay, but i noticed that every once in a while ecatmur is down, so i figured it's a bit risky. Also, it doesn't work. Some questions: 1) is there any other overlay that comes with gnome-btdownload? Something stabler than ecatmur? Or an ebuild for it maybe? 2) gnome-btdownload dies with the following error on startup. === gnome-btdownload error message [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ gnome-btdownload Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/gnome-btdownload", line 3, in ? import sys, gnomebtdownload File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gnomebtdownload/__init__.py", line 18, in ? from client import * File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gnomebtdownload/client.py", line 22, in ? import BitTorrent.download, BitTorrent.bencode ImportError: No module named download /=== Where or how do I configure my system to get this stuff? my gnome-btdownload version is thus === gnome-btdownload version [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ equery list gnome-btdownload [ Searching for package 'gnome-btdownload' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ ~] net-p2p/gnome-btdownload-0.0.31 (0) /=== What do I need to post? world file? use flags? clueless here. Ever since i added ecatmmur, revdep-rebuild keeps rebuilding pygobject. I figured it's a broken dependency in ecatmur, so I removed both that and gnome-btdownload for now. Has anyone gotten gnome-btdownload working? -- thing.
[gentoo-user] revdep-rebuild keeps rebuilding gcc o__o
here is a sample snippet of the tail of a revdep-rebuild followed by another one === * Messages for package sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2: * If you have issues with packages unable to locate libstdc++.la, * then try running 'fix_libtool_files.sh' on the old gcc versions. * GNU info directory index is up-to-date. Build finished correctly. Removing temporary files... You can re-run revdep-rebuild to verify that all libraries and binaries are fixed. If some inconsistency remains, it can be orphaned file, deep dependency, binary package or specially evaluated library. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo revdep-rebuild -av Password: Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild Checking reverse dependencies... Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package update will be emerged. Collecting system binaries and libraries... done. (/home/markd/.revdep-rebuild.1_files) Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH... done. (/home/markd/.revdep-rebuild.2_ldpath) Checking dynamic linking consistency... broken /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgcjawt.la (requires /usr/lib/../lib64/lib-gnu-java-awt-peer-gtk.la) broken /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgij.la (requires /usr/lib/../lib64/libgcj.la) broken /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgcjawt.la (requires /usr/lib/../lib64/lib-gnu-java-awt-peer-gtk.la) broken /usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libgij.la (requires /usr/lib/../lib64/libgcj.la) done. (/home/markd/.revdep-rebuild.3_rebuild) Assigning files to ebuilds... done. (/home/markd/.revdep-rebuild.4_ebuilds) Evaluating package order... done. (/home/markd/.revdep-rebuild.5_order) All prepared. Starting rebuild... emerge --oneshot -av =sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2 .. These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild R ] sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2 USE="d fortran gcj gtk libffi mudflap nls objc objc++ objc-gc (-altivec) -bootstrap -build -doc (-hardened) -ip28 -ip32r10k (-multilib) -multislot (-n32) (-n64) -nocxx -test -vanilla" 0 kB Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No] /=== What could i have broken this time? Shouldn't subsequent revdep-rebuilds be doing nothing? This is my fourth consecutive revdep-rebuild... I am using overlays. I just recently removed the ecatmur overlay from my listing, so I didn't think it would be causing problems === [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ layman -l * roslin[Rsync ] (source: rsync://roslin.kicks- ass.n...) * sabayon [Subversion] (source: http://svn.sabayonlinux.or...) * sunrise [Subversion] (source: http://overlays.gentoo.org...) /=== The roslin overlay was used primarily for frostwire, i can't remember what the other two were for. But if it were an overlay issue, wouldn't revdep-rebuild be saying that it uses the overlays right after the build list? What could be going on? -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] revdep-rebuild keeps rebuilding gcc o__o
thanks! I'll try that now and rebuild On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Erik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just disable the USE-flag gcj, see > [http://www.nabble.com/forum/PrintPost.jtp?post=14429644]. > -- > gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list > > -- thing.
[gentoo-user] Gnome CD automount fails without error
Hi guys I'm using GNOME on gentoo and I like the behavior where usb drives will pop up a nautilus window on plugin. I always expected this behavior on CDs as well, but for some reason, I only noticed today (after quite a while of using, since I haven't plugged in a CD for quite a while) that it doesn't work. So I've been investigating a bit on some things to check. 1) my cdrom mount point. the cdrom mount point is owned by root.cdrom and has rwx,rx,- permisions All relevant users are members of the root.cdrom group. however this seems to me completely irrelevant since as far as i recall, gnome-volume-manager should automatically just create a mount point for the cdrom. 2) my fstab entry I've tried without an fstab entry, and with. When I work with an entry, it looks like this: /dev/cdrom /media/cdrom udf,iso9660 users,noauto 0 0 again, this looks irrelevant to me since my alternate system (ubuntu) uses almost the same fstab with just root partitions switched around and the automount seems to work fine. 3) plugdev membership. all relevant users are members of plugdev. plugdev seems to properly create USB devices when things are pluggied in. 4) device file my hard disks are /dev/sda and /dev/sdb my cdrom is in /dev/hdb cdrom permissions give me [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls /dev/hdb -l brw-rw 1 root cdrom 3, 64 Mar 6 2008 /dev/hdb this is i think statically created by udev. 5) kernel and stuff [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -r 2.6.23-gentoo-r3 6) gnome-volume-manager -d no (runs gnome-volume-manager in the foreground) is completely silent. 7) The CDs themselves. They seem to work when I do a mount from the command line. Is there anything else I need to check? I want the cdrom to pop up correctly. On a tangent, i noticed that all my partitions are appearing in the nautilus sidebar bookmarks and also my desktop. I have quite a number of partitions, so this isn't the behavior I expect. When I click my Places menu, I notice that my partitions are listed in removable media. How do I take them out? -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gnome CD automount fails without error
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:43 AM, cypherstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Could you go on Desktop / Preferences / Removable Drives and Media ??? > > Check any option there, and try again > under removable storage, (checked) mount removable drives when hot-plugged (checked) mount removable media when inserted (checked) browse removeable media when inserted autorun programs on new drives and media autoopen files on new drives and media under blank CD and DVD discs burn a CD or DVD when a blank disc is inserted seems just about right to me, but still, no joy. -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] How to do port-based routing?
to be accurate, Netfilter is the internal name of the Linux subsystem that plays around with packets. ipchains and iptables are specific implementations of Netfilter. They also just happen to be the names of the programs that edit Netfilter rules as well. -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop: Thinkpad T43: Disks Very Slow Under Load, Were Fast in the Past
maybe your partitions are near full? -- thing.
[gentoo-user] What use flags/build settings should I use to get audio CDs to play in totem?
DISCLAIMER
I have spent the past 3 hours reading mail archives on gentoo-user
about, erm, certain sensitive people and topics and their feelings
about cd software. In fact I am *still* reading. I realize, though,
that it would probably be much faster to parallelize my information
gathering by directly asking the group.
Hi Gentoo-user!
I just recently discovered some of my old video game CDs (FYI: Might
and Magic 6-8) that have mixed data and audio tracks. I am a GNOME
user. Unfortunately, as I put the CD on, I got GNOME errors saying
"unable to mount audio CD". hmm-hmm, sounds trivial enough.
I do a grep on use.desc and use.local.desc for cd stuff and I see cdda
as a use flag. Google calls it CD Digital Audio, so my brain connects
says "sounds like the guy". Hastily I add it to my make.conf and
emerge -uDNtav world, see cdda pop up in some places, and press enter.
Later after dinnertime I notice the compiling's done, so I pop in the
game CD to see if audio CD is alright.
Joy! GNOME shows two icons on the desktop when I put the CD in. One
obviously shows the data track, labeled "MM7_Disk2" or something
similar. The other says "audio CD", which, when double clicked, shows
me a cdda://sr0/ URL opened in Nautilus, with a bunch of files from
Track 2.wav to Track 20.wav.
Now, here's the issue: I can drag the files from the window to another
folder and they get, intuitively, ripped from the CD as wav files
which play. But when I try to play them in totem, I get nothing.
Specifically, totem says:
---
totem cdda://sr0/
** Message: Error: A Audio CD source plugin is required to play this
stream, but not installed.
gstplaybasebin.c(1673): gen_source_element (): /GstPlayBin:play:
No URI handler for cdda
** Message: Missing plugin: gstreamer|0.10|totem|Audio CD
source|urisource-cdda (Audio CD source)
** Message: Automatic missing codec installation not supported (helper
script missing)
** Message: Error: A Audio CD source plugin is required to play this
stream, but not installed.
---
Popup:
"The playback of this movie requires a Audio CD source plugin which is
not installed"
---
Also, the Movie->Play Disc 'Audio Disc'
is grayed out.
My rhythmbox also now sees my audio CD's tracks 2 and above (which
makes sense), but plays painful static when I double click on the
tracks.
vlc gives me the same static on tracks 2 and above.
Clearly, I'm only getting somewhere half-right here. I want to be able
to play CD audio from mixed audio/data disks and I can get both data
and audio to appear. I can also rip the audio from the disks
themselves, which works fine. So all that seems to be missing is
getting my desktop apps to play the CD from the disks, and I am just
suspecting (as reported by my apps) that one of my plugins is missing
or wrong.
Thinking it's a gstreamer thing, here's my gst-plugins search:
---
madum...@trixie ~/Might and Magic 7 $ eix gst-plugins cd
* media-plugins/gst-plugins-cdio
Available versions: (0.10) 0.10.8 (~)0.10.10 (~)0.10.11
Homepage:http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/
Description: plugin for gstreamer
[I] media-plugins/gst-plugins-cdparanoia
Available versions: (0.10) 0.10.14 0.10.20 (~)0.10.21 (~)0.10.22
Installed versions: 0.10.22(0.10)(09:27:01 PHT Sunday, 12 April, 2009)
Homepage:http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/
Description: plugin for gstreamer
madum...@trixie ~/Might and Magic 7 $ eix cdparanoia
[I] media-plugins/gst-plugins-cdparanoia
Available versions: (0.10) 0.10.14 0.10.20 (~)0.10.21 (~)0.10.22
Installed versions: 0.10.22(0.10)(09:27:01 PHT Sunday, 12 April, 2009)
Homepage:http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/
Description: plugin for gstreamer
[I] media-sound/cdparanoia
Available versions: 3.10_pre2 ~3.10.2-r2
Installed versions: 3.10_pre2(12:58:56 PHT Monday, 13 October, 2008)
Homepage:http://www.xiph.org/paranoia
Description: an advanced CDDA reader with error correction
---
It would seem to me that cdparanoia should be the one doing the job of
reading audio CDs for my gstreamer-based apps, and there seems to be a
gst-plugin for it, which is installed. But apparently whatever they're
doing is not turning out right, and whatever nautilus is doing when
copying tracks seems to be turning out okay.
Just in advance, peace and flowers and hugs and puppies and ice cream
to the readers. :D But here's what my system says about cdrkit /
cdrtools:
madum...@trixie ~/Might and Magic 7 $ eix cdrtools
* app-cdr/cdrtools
Available versions: 2.01.01_alpha34 2.01.01_alpha51
(~)2.01.01_alpha53 (~)2.01.01_alpha57-r1 {acl unicode}
Homepage:http://cdrecord.berlios.de/
Description: A set of tools for CD/DVD reading and
recording, including cdrecord
madum...@trixie ~/Might and Magic 7 $ eix -n cdrkit
[I] app-cdr/cdrkit
Available versions: 1.1.6 1.1.8 1.1.9 {hfs kernel_FreeBSD
kernel_linux unicode}
Re: [gentoo-user] What use flags/build settings should I use to get audio CDs to play in totem?
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Paul Hartman wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Paul Hartman > wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Mark David Dumlao >> wrote: >>> media-plugins/gst-plugins-cdio >> >> I think that one should do it. >> > > Also, according to > http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html there is a > cd-audio plugin which is part of gst-plugins-bad which might be an > even better choice :) > I'm going to go with this one. I'm writing/testing a gst-plugins-bad ebuild right now :)
Re: [gentoo-user] What use flags/build settings should I use to get audio CDs to play in totem?
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > I'm going to go with this one. I'm writing/testing a gst-plugins-bad > ebuild right now :) Taking this one back. Playing around using gst-launch-0.10 with various cd reading sources (cdiocddasrc, cdparanoiasrc, cdaudio) tells me (1) i probably dont need cdio, and (2) cdaudio doesn't "feel" like it's doing the right thing (hardcoded /dev/cdrom name). Also, what appears to be the case (and probably what confused me) is that cdparanoia and friends CAN read audio CDs. It just seems to fess up when it's reading mixed data/audio CDs and outputs me garbage. Now I don't yet know if this is because it can't read mixed data/audio tracks or because the Might and Magic CDs are in a not-exactlly-compliant format that just happens to read fine on windows. I'll pop in a few playstation CDs and see how that works out. At any rate, though, it seems to doubly stump me that totem isn't registering the gstreamer cdda source even though rhythmbox is reading it just fine. I'll double check the totem ebuild and check if there's a configure option that's not in the use flags. Sane?
Re: [gentoo-user] What use flags/build settings should I use to get audio CDs to play in totem?
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > Also, what appears to be the case (and probably what confused me) is > that cdparanoia and friends CAN read audio CDs. It just seems to fess > up when it's reading mixed data/audio CDs and outputs me garbage. Oh, and not to derail my own topic, but it's been a while since I've listened to Ozzy :D
[gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver
I did a recent emerge -uDNav world and most of my gnome packages are 2.24 now.2 issues: 1) Logout, shutdown, restart commands from gnome menu don't seem to be working. Nothing happens, no menu appears. Same goes for using the Power button applet. I can manually log myself out, of course, by doing "killall gnome-session" but that can't possibly be the Right Thing (tm). :) 2) The Lock Screen command, however, works and sends me to my screensaver. However, when I move the mouse and the password dialog reappears, the background is the default green splashscreen that comes with a new user. Weird. I don't know where to hunt to change the lock screen background, and I was pretty sure it was supposed to just be gnome-screensaver with a dialog on top. 3) While I'm at it, does anyone know a way to get the "random pictures" screen saver to select a specific folder without making a folder mess in my home folder called Pictures? I have my own sorting scheme of things and it's getting to me, also I don't want all of my pictures flying out on the screensaver ;D
Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver
er, anyone? On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > I did a recent emerge -uDNav world and most of my gnome packages are 2.24 > now.2 issues: > 1) Logout, shutdown, restart commands from gnome menu don't seem to be > working. Nothing happens, no menu appears. Same goes for using the Power > button applet. > > I can manually log myself out, of course, by doing "killall gnome-session" > but that can't possibly be the Right Thing (tm). :) > > 2) The Lock Screen command, however, works and sends me to my screensaver. > However, when I move the mouse and the password dialog reappears, the > background is the default green splashscreen that comes with a new user. > Weird. I don't know where to hunt to change the lock screen background, and > I was pretty sure it was supposed to just be gnome-screensaver with a dialog > on top. > > 3) While I'm at it, does anyone know a way to get the "random pictures" > screen saver to select a specific folder without making a folder mess in my > home folder called Pictures? I have my own sorting scheme of things and it's > getting to me, also I don't want all of my pictures flying out on the > screensaver ;D > >
[gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Hi gentoo-user, The previous week I asked a little something about some gnome problems and was surprised that while other mails were getting responses within hours, even minutes, of posting, I had posted and reposted the same message three times over the span of a week - to no joy. I figured that the volume of the mailing list made it highly improbable for there to be not even 1 answer to what seems to be a well-formed question, so a problem was at hand. Thinking it had to do with mailing list subscription issues (I've changed emails in the past), I unsubscribed, resubscribed and reposted, to no avail. On perhaps my third or fourth repost, I found a shocking answer: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:06:26PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > >er, anyone? > > You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML > one. I don't read more than one line when it's written in HTML. I > suspect that a lot of contributors do the same here. > > Please, conform to the netiquette. That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told, years later, that wearing shoes there meant "I'm not serious, so please ignore my opinions.". The funny thing is, I have been subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since I usually got one or two answers. I would like to express must-needed-to-be-expressed frustration, as there is place for it, and to make aware that that is a serious problem. I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point where it is almost invisible. Here's the gentoo mailing lists list for reference: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml Here's what the mlmm welcome email looks like === snip Welcome! You have been subscribed to the gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailinglist. To unsubscribe send a message to: gentoo-user+unsubscr...@lists.gentoo.org And for help send a message to: gentoo-user+h...@lists.gentoo.org === /snip And of course the confirmation email === snip i, this is the mlmmj program managing the mailinglist gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org To confirm you want the address f...@doman added to this list, please send a reply to gentoo-user+confsub-gibberishcode-foo=dom...@lists.gentoo.org This confirmation serves two purposes. It tests that mail can be sent to your address. Secondly it makes sure someone else did not try and subscribe your email address without your permission. Your mailer may automatically reply to the confirmation address when you hit the reply button. The subject and the body of the mail can be anything. === /snip This is a _community-wide_bug_, if ever there was a place to file it. I don't recall it being rude to send html emails anywhere else without it appearing in bold letters. Had I known, I would have always used plain formatting. If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now that I'm looking for it. What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail by default, and one imagines that there would be a wide range of capabilities from the readers in the portage tree... (btw, I'm already having leads on my GNOME problem, something about some packages coming from overlays and some packages coming from portage, perhaps some kind of mismatch).
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a > no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than > readership, you are on your own. Hey I don't need that tone. As I said if I knew the informal rule I'd follow it, no issue. It's just that many mail readers make it transparent to the user whether mail is being read or written in plaintext or html, although of course there are obvious and easy to click options to do both. > Also every month is a lenghty thread where people tell someone to stop using > html. You must have skipped that threads. Like I said, I usually just use the list to ask a question or two every once in a while. In-material prefiltered content is probably the wrong place to put advice like that, because by then it's already too late and many people just skim through content till they see something interesting anyway. It's like getting a message about not using an all lowercase password hidden in your system logs. Yes, technically you're supposed to read your logs every once in a while, but most people filter their use of such logs only for specific problems and would transparently miss it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
User Relations bug 251931 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> User Relations bug 251931 >> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931 > > Access Denied > You are not authorized to access bug #251931. > Please press Back and try again. Wow. I didn't expect user...@gentoo.org bugs to be private. I can't find a user interface mechanism to make it public (the checkbox is grayed out), and even ended up accidentally restricting myself from viewing it. I ended up duplicating it in as bug 252102... Here's the bug report in plain: === report Summary:html emails silently ignored on gentoo mailing lists without needed prior warnings to subscription e-mails on various gentoo mailing lists are silently ignored if they are available in html format. No or insufficient prior warnings against html e-mails are part of the mailing list subscription process, the mailing list pages, or documentation pointing to the mailing lists. Because they are ignored silently, senders are not even aware that there is a communication issue at all, and by default will assume that people are just uninterested in their particular thread or topic. duplicate of bug 251931, after bugzilla user error rendering bug inaccessible to reporter. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: Case 1: Mailing list background information 1. Look for a mailing list to subscribe to at the gentoo website (http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml) 2. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails. === Case 2: Mailing list subscription information 1. Send a subscription email to listname+subscr...@lists.gentoo.org 2. Receive your confirmation mail. 3. Send a subscription confirmation / reply to the mail. 4. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails. === Case 3: Every day usage 1. Formulate an interesting, solvable question giving plenty of information. 2. Post the question to a subscribed gentoo mailing list 3. Observe a marked difference in reply volume / rate to other posts compared to your post, typicaly at zero. Actual Results: Users do not read or reply to mails sent in html format. Postings get silently ignored. There are no warnings against sending html formats. Expected Results: Warnings at the mailing list listing, subscription process, and possibly when sending regarding sending html emails. Possibly a published netiquette guide for the gentoo mailing list. I have been informed that there are periodic anti-html postings in the mailing list itself. This is a wrong solution, because the usage patterns of a developer mailing list have to do with software-based skimming and filtering for topics. It is especially relevant for users to be aware of an effective community-wide html embargo, since many mail readers transparently read and write plain and html emails, and many even default to them. === /report
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually > someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part. It is in this particular case where the people _are_ the system. It just so happens that the interface to the system - the mailing list subscription - isn't too clear on the characteristics and behaviors of the system, in a way that ordinary usage results in silent errors.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant > thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do > it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never > was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one > cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and > ask you not to. At which point you should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know > that..." That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet didn't stop growing 10 years ago. It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed. The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html mails. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear for everyone else - there isn't a way for a user to find out they're being ignored. That's all that needs to be said.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin wrote: > b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't > mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks > a question and the answer is, "search the archives for XYZ, we already > covered this, and please search before asking". This is one of those > threads This isn't one of those threads. In the vast majority of those cases, there is at least the item to search for. There wasn't one in this case. > c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very > people who you're asking for help. Shake up who needs to be shaken up. If people get offended by even getting suggested to the fact that their rules are hard to detect, they are going to be offended by a lot of things anyway, and questions are going to be some of them. > I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a > community and we all agree to abide by certain rules. The rules don't > change every time a new person joins the community. I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going to be a problem for any user community.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin wrote: > I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post > and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as > this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some people do ignore > posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I > can do about it. I don't like defeatist attitudes just because they're related to community changes. There are certain parts of the community that can be readily improved (typically relating to centralized rules, FAQs, etc) and certain parts that are very difficult to improve (typically relating to the users' attitudes). If someone makes even a passing note of this on the website, then my single bug report might do the work of several dozen "dont post in html" mails over time. > Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing > something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care > about? That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some > people "don't care" for html formatted email. That's a pretty easy question to answer and substantiate. Yes. Posts are typically discriminated upon based on their content. On the other hand, html posts are discriminated based upon their formatting. This means questions that people would otherwise have answered get ignored. Content discrimination is a null transaction. Formatting discrimination is at some times a null transaction and at some times negative (friction).
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Eric Martin wrote: > this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads. > There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives > of gentoo-user. The link below is the search I used, sorted by date > (descending). As I said there aren't even any terms to search for when you're getting ignored. If I had known that the problem was html mails from the start, then i would have already corrected the issue before searching the archive.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Eric Martin wrote: > I don't know if he could have made that any clearer. That being said, > I'm done contributing to spam on the list. Please bottom post and post > in a text only format. For many people (myself included) this is the > first mailing list they joined. Nobody was handed a manual up front, > for the most part you learn as you go. The bug report is not about the clarity of an already-late reminder. The problem is that it was late for me, it will be late for a few hundred other posters after me, and it will be late for a few hundred posters after them unless something is done about it. Hence the bug report. Hopefully a presubscription FAQ or guide could at least curb such problems.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Willie Wong wrote: > So don't be such a pompous ass. We didn't ignore you because we don't > like you. There's never a policy by the gentoo-user mailing list to > automatically, collectively ignore all e-mails sent in HTML. We are > not that well organized. And we are certainly not the borg collective. > It is a lot more likely that your query received no response because > no one know how to answer or how to diagnose your problem. > > What do you in fact propose the FAQ say? That we prefer plain-text > emails? Or that "if you post in HTML, there's a chance that some > members may ignore your posts"? It sounds to me from this thread that > you are advocating more of the latter rather than the former (that you > are pissed off because your post may have been ignored because of > formatting and not of content). And to me a warning like that is just > plain silly. You can equally well add a disclaimer that "Joerg > Schilling will chew you out if you use cdrkit instead of cdrtools" > (Joerg, no disrespect meant at all by that, just stating a fact that > you will in fact do so). > > So you are pissed that you got ignored. Well, tough. Stop making it > sound like hordes of people have came before you and were ignored > because of their HTML e-mails, and that unless this reform passes > hordes more of people will suffer the same fate. It just ain't true. > While I agree that it may be a good idea to have an FAQ somewhere > for the mailing lists discussion basic netiquette, your rather > personal vendetta is blowing this way out of proportion. Pompous ass? Personal Vendetta? Pissed off? What world is this? One bug report is just an announcement that there is a problem. It might seem to you that people get on a high horse when they say that, but a lot of us like solving problems. It's the first few reactions here that were too pompous for taste. Why, the OP was a _question_.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >> Please. He's completely right in demanding apologies and a swift >> reaction to the problem -because if users cannot access the list due to >> undocumented stuff, it's a problem. > > no, he is absolutly wrong in demanding everything. Nobody is paid to be here > or answer his mails. He asked something nobody was able to or willing to > answer. The html mails were a different problem. And now he thinks that his > problem was caused by html - instead it was caused by a lack of > knowledge/willingness in participation. Guys I think you need to take a breather. I didn't demand an apology. I didn't even demand an answer. Go look at the OP and the replies and take an objective look at the words. Whatever the venomous, naggy, pompous, self-righteous - or even injured - attitude it is you might be projecting just isn't present at all. I just said "hey, look around you guys, here's a problem, and here's some proof that we have it." btw, why is it a problem? If I was just as surprised at the unexpected tones of the responses then, I'm not now. Whatever's been said has been said, and this is the Internet after all. If it explodes so quickly in everyone's face just to see an issue even mentioned - then I'm apologizing on behalf of everyone. As far as I'm concerned, the problem is identified and the obvious solution - some subscription-level FAQ/warning - works and has already been suggested to the bugs people. There's no need for the rest of this.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Stroller wrote: > You are not stupid. I think your use of English is excellent, you just have > to decide upon how you wish to present yourself. Stroller, all I can say is that you are reading too much into my posts and trying to second-guess my intentions. Yes I did express some sentiments of frustration - I made that quite plain, I gave the reason why, I described what probably caused it, substantiated that there is something that could be done about it, and even was the one that took action on it. True, I expressed some shock when the answers weren't as polite as I imagined, and yes, I did actively respond to any specific dismissives of what I thought was the problem. But no, I did not address the "community at large" in some sort of "you owe me" attitude. You've already noted that any nuances in my posts are subtle at best, and it would be fine for you to take your own advice and not assume like a problem exists before you should. I just think you're projecting your previous frustrations at people who are asking for apologies into my posts. Everyone has their bad day. But I think it's misguided. For one, I just described above that there aren't any. For two, I really do write like that, almost all the time, and I think many other people do, and I think it would be a much finer world if we all wrote as civil as we could despite any feelings about the situation. If you're that emotionally invested in getting offended by my style, then have a nice day. You're not solving anything. Sounds funny coming from me, but you should probably just ignore the posts then.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Oh and just to make it clear once and for all, I was perfectly fine with the idea that my problems might go ignored, and in fact my running assumption all this time was that nobody knew or was interested in my particular problems. That's how mailing lists work. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Half the fun of Gentoo is knowing that you're kinda on your own. What I just wanted to talk about was an additional factor that could make the situation worse. It's entirely besides the point why I actually was ignored. Think of it like someone reporting a trivial buffer overflow in an edge use-case of a program. Fixing the issue might still not make his particular use-case work, and the fact is the buffer overflow might still be hard to take advantage of or even encounter anyway. Still needs to be reported though.
Re: [gentoo-user] Mnemonics for everyday stuff
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > DSA / RSA > tun / tap tun - to uniplexed node? tap - to any person? it makes some vague sense
Re: [gentoo-user] oocalc document always needs recovery when opened
A very very quick fix: rename or move your ~/.openoffice directory and openoffice should start out with fresh everything. I don't know how openoffice handles backups and caching though, so if you'd like to preserve your settings maybe you could look into the subfolders there and see if the backuped/cached document is there somewhere.
Re: [gentoo-user] Mnemonics for everyday stuff
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> > tun - to uniplexed node? >> > tap - to any person? > As I used them they are not related. DSA and RSA are key hash algorithms, I > can never tell them apart and have to haul out the man page to rediscover > which one I tell my users to use :-) > > tun & tap - same thing. One is routed, one is more like level 2. Do you think > I can ever remember which is which when I need to? The original meanings are tunnel and tap, I just made up acronyms for them. tun would be the routed one, tap would be the broadcast one, which is why I used unicast and any.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 2:07 AM, Mick wrote: > On Saturday 27 December 2008, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >> Another reason I >> >> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming >> >> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags >> >> in Counter-Strike :P >> > >> > set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf >> >> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it >> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. > > Is that measurable? Niceness effects are most easily noticeable for CPU bottlenecks, because context switching CPUs is relatively painless. Server loads are probably more of Memory / IO bottlenecks, and context switching between that involves disk swaps and disk prereads. If it is anything more than trivial prereads / swaps, then even a 19-niced app can cause noticeable bursts of slowdown on a modern system. Niceness isn't magic, and compiling, which could easily max out all 3 resources (CPU, memory, disk access, 4 if you add network), probably gets the least bump from niceness. Although that isn't to say that PORTAGE_NICENESS doesn't take effect. Desktop machines with a single user will probably have speed bursts small enough that it wouldn't matter. But I'd think twice if there was something intensive supposed to be done on the server.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > The cynic in me wants to say that Colin Kolivas tried telling the kernel devs > for years about it and got stone-walled and ignored for years, despite > maintaining a set of desktop patches that worked really well. Eventually he > gave up and walked away in disgust when Ingo Molnar submitted scheduler > patches that looked awfully like Colin's, and his were accepted > > I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a set of > desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The kernel devs > are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest in having Linux > work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus will tend to go. I read the Con Kolivas story some time ago, although frankly I didn't know what to do about it since I wanted a newer kernel after that. Any recommendations for a similar ck-like patchset or anything like it for desktop performance on later kernels? I doubt my toy boxes will really hit server bottlenecks anyway :)
[gentoo-user] Any advice on using postgresql-{base,server} ebuilds?
I've looked around a bit and various sources, and some
experimentation, seem to say that the new
postgresql-{base,server}-8.3.5 ebuilds for 8.3.5 don't play well with
some packages, particularly, php-5.2.8-r1 seems to be unable to run or
build against it when called with postgres flag.
I'm considering manually rolling out postgresql (I've already
downloaded source) if at the very least just to check which files it
can't find.
=== trying to run php-cli
madum...@trixie /usr/portage/sys-kernel $ php
php: error while loading shared libraries: libpq.so.4: cannot open
shared object file: No such file or directory
=== /trying to run php-cli
Now libpq is part of the old postgres packages and they seemed to work
out just fine, so I wondered, maybe I should just make overlay ebuilds
using the postgresql/libpq form, then just version bump them to 8.3.5?
That's probably going to take me a while though to compile though, so
I wonder if anyone has done this?
=== emerging php
madum...@trixie /usr/portage/sys-kernel $ tail -n 40
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/temp/build.log
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function '_php_pgsql_notice_handler':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:362:
warning: passing argument 2 of '_php_pgsql_trim_message' from
incompatible pointer type
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:366:
warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'php_pgsql_do_connect':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:747:
error: 'PG_VERSION' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:747:
error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:747:
error: for each function it appears in.)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:770:
warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'php_pgsql_get_link_info':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:958:
error: 'PG_VERSION' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'php_pgsql_get_field_info':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:1863:
warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'zif_pg_lo_create':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2559:
error: 'INV_READ' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2559:
error: 'INV_WRITE' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2563:
warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'zif_pg_lo_open':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2707:
error: 'INV_READ' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2709:
error: 'INV_WRITE' undeclared (first use in this function)
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'zif_pg_lo_import':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:2947:
warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:
In function 'php_pgsql_result2array':
/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/work/php-5.2.8/ext/pgsql/pgsql.c:5791:
warning: passing argument 3 of 'php_addslashes' from incompatible
pointer type
make: *** [ext/pgsql/pgsql.lo] Error 1
*
* ERROR: dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile
* environment, line 4483: Called src_compile_normal
* environment, line 4602: Called php5_2-sapi_src_compile
* environment, line 3516: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* emake || die "make failed"
* The die message:
* make failed
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call
stack if relevant.
* A complete build log is located at
'/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located at
'/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/php-5.2.8-r1/temp/environment'.
*
=== /emerging php
Or maybe it's the php ebuild that needs some help. I've recently had
some trouble getting it to compile against >readline-5.
Re: [gentoo-user] Any advice on using postgresql-{base,server} ebuilds?
Found it. The clue was the libpq.so.4, which as Dirk said, was from an older postgresql build. I wondered why my postgres kept reporting version 4 rather than the 5 I had installed, and searched the build logs. It seems that the library information is reported by pg_config, and that my /usr/bin/pg_config was left over from the old install and not deleted/clobbered by eselect-postgresql. An eselect postgresql reset-all / set-all / update got me back in action.
[gentoo-user] Gentoo Installer and Handbook (Was: Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?)
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Sebastian Günther wrote: > * Nikos Chantziaras (rea...@arcor.de) [05.02.09 09:12]: >> >> Than I'll rephrase my statement: Gentoo would need a non-bugged GUI >> installer ;) >> > No, Gentoo needs no GUI or CLI installer. It is very good, that if you > install Gentoo for the first time, you must actually read the > documentation, because it introduces you in the whole managing Gentoo > stuff. What is important in the Handbook are not the commandline > examples, but the surrunding text. A student of the path heard about Ubuntu, and wanted to try it, and learn about it. He asked his friend, a Linux guru, about it. "Where can I find an installer of Ubuntu?", he asked. Rummaging about his stuff, his friend replied: "Here, I have an extra Ubuntu CD for you.". After thanking his friend, he got about his business and went to install Ubuntu on a spare machine. After a while, he wanted to install other applications on his Ubuntu machine, but he didn't know how to do it. He quickly called up his friend and asked about it. "Where can I find the official documentation for Ubuntu?", he asked. "Read the documentation and manuals at these links," said his friend, who pointed at the site containing the offiicial documentation. After thanking his friend, he got about his business and learned a bit about his Ubuntu machine. Several months later, at the Ubuntu forums, he notices several users mentioning Gentoo over and over again. He quickly decides to give this Gentoo a try, and asks his friend where to get an installer. "Read the documentation and manuals at these links," said his friend, who pointed at the site containing the official documentation. This answer confused the student, and after skimming the pages for a while, he notices that the documentation is too huge for him to read in a single sitting. He then asks his friend if he has a copy of the documentation for reference when he gets home. Rummaging about his stuff, his friend replied: "Here, I have an extra Gentoo CD for you." The student was even more confused. "Why is it that when I asked you for an installer, you pointed me to the documentation, but when I asked you for the documentation, you gave me a CD? Why didn't you give me a CD installer the first time around?" To which the guru replied: "If you just want a CD installer, then you can have this.", and he gave the student another Ubuntu CD. At this point the student was enlightened.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Installer and Handbook (Was: Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?)
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 2:29 AM, James Homuth wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Mark David Dumlao [mailto:madum...@gmail.com] > Sent: February 21, 2009 1:12 PM > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Installer and Handbook (Was: Re: Gentoo's > advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?) > > I think you just outlined the exact kind of "help" that keeps most people > from switching to Gentoo. If that had been, for example, you and I having > that particular conversation, I'd of probably smacked you with the CD and > got my answers from somewhere else. You don't like my koan? Originally I wanted it to be an LFS koan, but then I figured it wouldn't be half as subtle.
[gentoo-user] udev 140 showing spikes of cpu usage
Hi guys, Not particularly a show-stopper, but I recently did an emerge, and one of the packages that was upgraded was udev. Intermittently, at least since the upgrade, my udev has been giving me prolonged spikes of cpu usage. It doesn't hog the whole cpu or anything, but it does use up some 60-70% of my running cpu. This is when my actual CPU (3.0GHz P4 HT) is about 60-70% also, so the actual CPU% used by udev is something close to maybe 25-30%. Normally, udev is about 6% of 60% though. Now most of the time, just like now, I'm logged in to my PC from my weaktop accross the room, and my other user, my brother, physically sits on the machine, meaning there's two of us. We've been doing this for several months now without complaint, so I'm pretty sure it's good enough to handle us both. However, recently, at least since my last emerge, my brother says that the responsiveness sometimes goes down at certain points and when I go top from across the room I see udev going to about 60-something mph. So what I do is I just restart udev, music dies for about half a second, but everything goes back immediately without problems. Essentially painless. The second time I had to restart udev I suspected something was wrong, so I set my udev.conf to go udev_log="err info debug" And restarted it. So the third and fourth time udev gave me a spike, I checked my system logs for anything related. Nope, nothing doing. This usually only happens when my other user is around, not when I'm just sitting across the room. Most of what we do is just firefox, although just recently I've been using digikam (which takes forever to start up because of the sheer size of my pictures collection, but hey, I'm not one to complain). I figure this may probably be related to my udev version bump. I forget my previous version, so it might be even a lower version bump than 140. Or maybe it's been going on for a while and I just didn't notice it. Anyhows, has anyone (if anyone has) noticed any strange udev CPU activity before? What have your experiences been with it and what do you think it's usually related to? === some out-of-the-ordinary things that might be related, but I don't think so - we did buy a new hard drive just last month. No problems with that one so far. - now that I think of it, my xorg drivers and other stuff probably also got bumped with udev. - i've been ignoring a bunch of tracker segmentation faults in my /var/log/messages, related to extracting exifs - a bunch of samba shares - we haven't logged out of our xsession in about a week.
[gentoo-user] umask 002 in /etc/profile
You know, I was thinking a bit, What with usergroups being the default behavior, do you think it's quite reasonable to use 002 as a default umask? Most group-sharing use-cases I've encountered have people that are sharing groups share files as read-write anyways, and by default, users have their own private group which nobody else is a member of; i.e. g+rw still won't allow others to write them.
Re: [gentoo-user] umask 002 in /etc/profile
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Steven Lembark wrote: > That was the idea, RH did it that way a dozen > years ago for exactly the reason you mention: > dir mods of 02770 make it easy to share files > but require 002 umask. Fix was to set the > per-user group, allowing private dir's (largely > $HOME) to have tighter mods with files below > them "group readable" by a single-user group. Hey, I use 2770 for directories too, but I notice there's one problem with that setup. If a user moves or copies a directory to a share that with 2770 mods, the files under moved directory retain their old group. Which is technically correct: small, tightly managed shares (I'm thinking programmers and code) probably need user-intervention for keeping permissions in check. But I'm doing a bunch of really large data shares on the order of several thousand pictures, sounds, clips, etc that are meant to have essentially free-for-all permissions, and having to manually have all users change the group of copied/moved files to the shared group wasn't acceptable. So I did a workaround for it so that files under my shares are correctly group-owned after default copy/move operations. The workaround I did? The "real" share is under /store, but the shares being directly accessed by the users are actually samba exports which force the user and group permissions to be correct for sharing via force user mask and friends. Unfortunately, this workaround doesn't help with a shared winedrive (I figure wine does weird things with opening files multiple times or something, which makes sense, it's a bunch of programs/libraries). What does work though, is to create a shared winedrive under an NTFS partition and to mount that using the users group. I'm not too amenable to creating a shared NTFS drive for everything else though! It's ext3 for me. Does that sound like an overly roundabout way to do things? My smbd's system use doesn't bother me. The "there must be a better way to do it" voice at the back of my head sometimes does, though.
Re: [gentoo-user] umask 002 in /etc/profile
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Steven Lembark wrote: > The scheme works rather nicely in nearly > every situation (POSIX ACL's play hell with > the scheme, but, then, they are supposed to). That being said, is there anyone who swears by ACLs here? I've never tried them on (except in a couple of "classroom exercises" years ago), so I don't know if they're any joy. Would they allow me to force all files under a directory, for instance, to be something like g+rw and at the same time be enrolled in a shared group?
Re: [gentoo-user] umask 002 in /etc/profile
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Wednesday 01 April 2009 16:55:31 Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Steven Lembark wrote: >> > That was the idea, RH did it that way a dozen >> > years ago for exactly the reason you mention: >> > dir mods of 02770 make it easy to share files >> > but require 002 umask. Fix was to set the >> > per-user group, allowing private dir's (largely >> > $HOME) to have tighter mods with files below >> > them "group readable" by a single-user group. >> >> Hey, I use 2770 for directories too, but I notice there's one problem >> with that setup. If a user moves or copies a directory to a share that >> with 2770 mods, the files under moved directory retain their old >> group. >> >> Which is technically correct: small, tightly managed shares (I'm >> thinking programmers and code) probably need user-intervention for >> keeping permissions in check. But I'm doing a bunch of really large >> data shares on the order of several thousand pictures, sounds, clips, >> etc that are meant to have essentially free-for-all permissions, and >> having to manually have all users change the group of copied/moved >> files to the shared group wasn't acceptable. So I did a workaround for >> it so that files under my shares are correctly group-owned after >> default copy/move operations. > > Wow. That's convulted. Simply setgid on the top-most directory that stuff is > copied into, and all files and dirs created in it are owned by the same group > that owns the top directory: > > chmod g+s /path/to/dest/dir/ Nope, that doesn't do at all. Try copying/moving a directory with files in it, and the files inside won't have the correct group. Their group will always belong to the group of the original owner, not the group of the shared directory.
Re: [gentoo-user] How to "freeze" my Gentoo system
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Thursday 12 March 2009 10:07:03 Dale wrote: >> I do understand that getting something stable and working then wanting >> to keep it that way. I'm just wondering what his mileage may be in the >> long run. > > I can only imagine what will happen if he forgets that package.mask and then > removes it six months later:-) I too, have spent a couple of days wondering what was masking a package before remembering that it was me.
Re: [gentoo-user] What annoys you?
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Wyatt Epp wrote: > Greets, > > So while gearing up for the Summer of Code, I noted a lot of things that I > had come to accept as normal that I feel should not be so. Things like the > danger of depclean or the way portage will only show one mask at a time. So I always did want an emerge option or frontend that showed the tree of blockers and masks when doing emerge -a and friends and suggested resolution paths. aptitude works it pretty fine.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What annoys you?
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Saturday 04 April 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> And besides, what >> have the clueless done to you? :D Just let them be. > > well, I try to be a good member of the community - and that means helping in > the forum. And it sucks to deal with the complete clueless. Even worse are > people who are clueless and become aggressive when pointed to the > documentation. > > When I started with Linux 'RTFM' was seen as an appropriate answer - but today > you could hurt someones precious feelings - and not hurting an imbecile is > very, very hard and taxing. "The goal of Gentoo is to design tools and systems that allow a user to do that work as pleasantly and efficiently as possible, as /they/ see fit. Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software. This is only possible when the tool is designed to reflect and transmit the will of the user, and leave the possibilities open as to the final form of the raw materials (the source code.) If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user. We have all experienced situations where tools seem to be imposing their respective wills on us. This is backwards, and contrary to the Gentoo philosophy." I have been using gentoo for quite a while and I like the way it does things. However, is that because the tools have allowed me to work as _I_ see fit, or is it because I have adapted to the workflow that the developers have seen fit for me? Gentoo is a set of tools for advanced users. Some of us love poking around, solving puzzles and tweaking things to no end. Some of us just want things done. I am of the first kind, but I do not believe that I am some "special, priviledged member" of the community that should be catered to at the expense of the other. I don't care if users flood the forums or the community just because the tools are sufficiently complete and correct, as they were originally supposed to be, currently strive to be, and eventually in the future should be. If that hurts people who believe that gentoo only belongs to them, then tough luck for them. They are wrong. As for the specific question at hand, the question is not "should there be a gentoo installer", but "are we ready for one?" and "what form should it take?". I believe a gentoo installer that is actually just a guided handbook might be all that we are ready to develop - and support - at the present moment.
[gentoo-user] Non-case sensitive alphabetical sorting
When ordering items by name, a separate and distinct sequence is scene for A-Z before the sequence for a-z. This is the expected behavior. What might i need to look up to intermix [Aa]-[Zz]?
Re: [gentoo-user] Non-case sensitive alphabetical sorting
I'm sorry, I wasnt clear in my original post.
When using gnome in ubuntu, clicking the sort by name in nautilus sorts using
[Aa]-[Zz]
When using gnome in gentoo, clicking the sort by name in nautilus yields
A-Z-a-z.
The same thing happens for coreutils ls, and so on.
Is there any file or configuration I have to check to use case
insensitive sorting
in gnome?
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Steven Lembark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>>
>> When ordering items by name, a separate and distinct sequence is scene for
>> A-Z before the sequence for a-z. This is the expected behavior. What might i
>> need to look up to intermix [Aa]-[Zz]?
>
>
> Schwartzian Transform is the perlish version of a
> technique from LISP: create a compound structure
> with the output as payload:
>
>my @sorted
>= map
>{
>$_->[-1]
>}
>sort
>{
>$a->[0] cmp $b->[0]
>}
>map
>{
>my $sortval = uc $_;
>
>[ $sortval, $_ ]
>}
>@unsorted_text;
>
> You can use the basic technique to sort anything
> (multi-level sorts, numeric, whatever). Same basic
> process works in other languages that support anon
> arrays or structs.
>
>
> --
> Steven Lembark85-09 90th St.
> Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY, 11421
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 888 359 3508
>
>
--
thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Non-case sensitive alphabetical sorting
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Albert Hopkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Check your LC_ALL environment variable. > > [~]$ LC_ALL=en_US ls > total 56K > 4.0K bin/4.0K exclude4.0K Private/ 4.0K Templates/ > 4.0K Desktop/4.0K Media/ 4.0K Projects/ 4.0K Virtual_Machines/ > 4.0K Documents/ 4.0K Music/ 4.0K python/ > 4.0K Downloads/ 4.0K Pictures/ 4.0K Python/ > > [~]$ LC_ALL=C ls > total 56K > 4.0K Desktop/4.0K Music/ 4.0K Python/4.0K exclude > 4.0K Documents/ 4.0K Pictures/ 4.0K Templates/ 4.0K python/ > 4.0K Downloads/ 4.0K Private/ 4.0K Virtual_Machines/ > 4.0K Media/ 4.0K Projects/ 4.0K bin/ great! what's the correct place to set this globally so that both terminal and gnome will see it? -- thing.
[gentoo-user] Suggestions for a version-control/storage/synchronization software to use?
I have a laptop where I keep writing stuff. "Writing stuff" includes a vast, mixed collection of essays, freemind mindmaps, downloaded pictures, clips, some programs, and generally - a heterogenous collection of various ideas that I might find "useful". I also have a computer at home, where I intend to keep that stuff. My home computer has a more extensive collection of the heavy media such as clips and pics, and as such, the folders to clips and pics are actually symlinks to different partitions specialized for that media. By contrast, my laptop (mobile collection) has a more updated collection of the light media such as essays, mindmaps, outlines and plans and keeps the whole structure under a single filesystem which is much smaller than my home collection. I have previously used rsync to synchronize the contents of either one, but I am running under some constraints. 1) the soft collection (essays, mindmaps, etc) is always more updated on my laptop 2) the pics collection sometimes is more updated on the laptop, and is sometimes more updated on the desktop. 3) every once in a while, I refactor all or part of my collection - moving/renaming files and folders around. A naive rsync will cause those folders to be retransmitted, wasting a considerable amount of time / bandwidth. 4) the heavy media are huge - on the order of 1-4 gigabytes a subfolder - and cannot easily be moved around via the internet. I would ideally want something that allows offline / delayed synchronization. 5) I don't intend to carry the entire collection on to my laptop - only the bits and pieces that will fit. But I want deletions and removals from my laptop to carry on to my desktop. At the same time, I don't want a synchronization from my laptop to my desktop to (what a nightmare!) erase the bits on my desktop that I didn't intend to carry at all. I was looking at various software for the job and I eventually thought of settling down on a 3rd generation distributed version control system. bzr and mercurial come to mind, but I'm not sure how to take any one. How would I do this?
[gentoo-user] Numpad keys behaving strange after system-wide update
Hi, I noticed my numpad keys stopped working after doing a system update. The thing is I can't pinpoint what exacly I changed since I did an emerge -uDnav world. I'm sure its some file somewhere... Pressing numpad keys in X doesnt seem to produce results or nothing at all. However, presisng numpad keys seems to work fine on the (non xterm) command line. Did anyone else's numpad appear to break? What do you think I should look up?
[gentoo-user] Sharing of wine drives between different users of same machine
After an (in?)convenient crash of a particular operating system which I have dual-booted with Gentoo for a while; I am going to reinstall it. My main issue though, for that particular operating system is that the shared c_drive of different wine users was shared there, and it annoys me that certain games now need some reinstalling (fortunately, the save files are in a safe place). Well since I'm going to go and do something a bit tedious anyway, I might as well do it right. I was wondering what strategies you guys use for sharing wine drives between different users. I have 3 kids using the same box for games; wine was one of the main features of using that box. I have previously done some of the following: (1) Everyone's .wine -> c:\wine (ntfs drive) which makes some sense, but the bad thing is that usernames are preserved across users. (2) Everyone's c_drive -> c:\wine (ntfs drive) Which also makes some sense, but I wonder if registry issues that are user specific point to the wrong places. (3) Everyone's program files -> c:\wine (ntfs drive) Which does solve the issue of saving space; but the problem is that registry entries from installing programs don't get shared. What's the proper way to multi-seat wine to make it behave like a multi-user Windows environment?
[gentoo-user] Rhythmbox gnome shortcuts not working after portage update
Here I go again, breaking stuff without knowing what's going on! ^___^'
As the topic title says, my rhythmbox's gnome shortcuts aren't working
after running uDNav world. It's been a while since I ran uDNav, so the
jump must have been somewhat major... I'm guessing some default
configuration or use flag was stepped on, but I don't know what use
flag or config I should be looking for!
Rhytmbox shortcuts!
I'm a gnome fan and I use the keyboard shortcuts to give me media
player control. Using gnome,
under System->Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts,
I give myself various keyboard shortcuts.
They are all working, except...
Keyboard shortcuts has a "Previous Track" and "Next Track" bindings,
along with play/pause and other things used to control media players.
Prior to my update, I assigned Ctrl + Alt + PageUp / PageDown /
Spacebar for previous, next and play/pause. None of them are working
after my update - I press the shortcuts and nothing happens. I
rechecked the keyboard shortcut dialogue after the update, and sure
enough the bindings haven't changed, and changing them to some other
combination results in any joy.
Where do I look? It's gotta be a use flag I think...
===
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ eix rhythmbox
[I] media-sound/rhythmbox
Available versions: 0.10.1-r1 ~0.11.2-r1 ~0.11.5 ~0.11.5-r1
~0.11.6 {X cdr daap dbus debug doc flac gnome-keyring hal ipod
libnotify lirc mad mtp musicbrainz python tagwriting vorbis}
Installed versions: 0.10.1-r1(08:17:54 PHT Wednesday, 30 July,
2008)(dbus flac hal libnotify mad musicbrainz python tagwriting vorbis
-daap -debug -doc -gnome-keyring -ipod -lirc)
Homepage:http://www.rhythmbox.org/
Description: Music management and playback software for GNOME
Re: [gentoo-user] Rhythmbox gnome shortcuts not working after portage update
bump
On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Mark David Dumlao
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here I go again, breaking stuff without knowing what's going on! ^___^'
>
> As the topic title says, my rhythmbox's gnome shortcuts aren't working
> after running uDNav world. It's been a while since I ran uDNav, so the
> jump must have been somewhat major... I'm guessing some default
> configuration or use flag was stepped on, but I don't know what use
> flag or config I should be looking for!
>
> Rhytmbox shortcuts!
> I'm a gnome fan and I use the keyboard shortcuts to give me media
> player control. Using gnome,
> under System->Preferences->Keyboard Shortcuts,
> I give myself various keyboard shortcuts.
>
> They are all working, except...
> Keyboard shortcuts has a "Previous Track" and "Next Track" bindings,
> along with play/pause and other things used to control media players.
> Prior to my update, I assigned Ctrl + Alt + PageUp / PageDown /
> Spacebar for previous, next and play/pause. None of them are working
> after my update - I press the shortcuts and nothing happens. I
> rechecked the keyboard shortcut dialogue after the update, and sure
> enough the bindings haven't changed, and changing them to some other
> combination results in any joy.
>
> Where do I look? It's gotta be a use flag I think...
>
> ===
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ eix rhythmbox
> [I] media-sound/rhythmbox
> Available versions: 0.10.1-r1 ~0.11.2-r1 ~0.11.5 ~0.11.5-r1
> ~0.11.6 {X cdr daap dbus debug doc flac gnome-keyring hal ipod
> libnotify lirc mad mtp musicbrainz python tagwriting vorbis}
> Installed versions: 0.10.1-r1(08:17:54 PHT Wednesday, 30 July,
> 2008)(dbus flac hal libnotify mad musicbrainz python tagwriting vorbis
> -daap -debug -doc -gnome-keyring -ipod -lirc)
> Homepage:http://www.rhythmbox.org/
> Description: Music management and playback software for GNOME
>
[gentoo-user] virtual/libstdc++ keeps trying to pull in gcc-3.3 :(
I did an emerge --update --newuse world and it keeps trying to build gcc-3.3.4 and ends in errors. Upon further inspection, I found that I already have gcc-4.1.1-r3. Everything was working prior to that, and I couldn't understand why it kept asking for gcc-3.3. I went through a whole lot of equeries and headbanging to find the package that wanted gcc-3.3. libstdc++ itself didn't seem to want it, but im not that good at reading ebuilds just yet. I checked the ebuild of virtual/libstdc++ and it gives me an rdepends of = gcc-3.3.* But I already have >gcc-4.1. Nothing seemed to be not working with my system then prior to the upgrade. So I made an overlay with anrdepends of =gcc-3.3. I continued trying to emerge and voila gcc-3.3 wasnt in the list anymore. I wonder if I'll break something this way. playing with libstdc++ sounds scary, but I don't want to compile gcc when I already have a working one. any ideas why virtual/libstdc++ asks specifically for 3.3? And was it a bad idea for me to do what I just did? -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] virtual/libstdc++ keeps trying to pull in gcc-3.3 :(
> I checked the ebuild of virtual/libstdc++ and it gives me an rdepends > of = gcc-3.3.* The full depend is RDEPEND="|| ( =sys-libs/libstdc++-v3-3.3* =sys-devel/gcc-3.3* )" This means either =sys-libs/libstdc++-v3-3.3* or =sys-devel/gcc-3.3*. If neither is installed the first listed will be used. this indicates that you already have gcc-3.3* installed. If you have nothing that needs it (very few packages fail to compile on 4.1 now), you can unmerge gcc-3.3 and the next emerge world will install sys-libs/libstdc++ instead. hey thanks. So I think the more elegant solution is to install sys-libs/libstdc++, unmerge my overlayed virtual/libstdc++, delete my overlayed virtual/libstdc++, then reemerge --oneshot virtual/libstdc++ again, this time using the one in the portage tree. I don't think I can just delete my overlay before then or it might fess up unmerging. -- thing.
[gentoo-user] Compiz keeps putting titlebars under gnome-panel
I have a button on my desktop that runs compiz-start if compiz is off and metacity --replace if compiz is off. I'm having fun playing wtih this thing except one annoying feature is when I switch from metacity to compiz all existing windows are bumped up by one titlebar's worth. this means that all windows that are maximized or at the top will have their titlebars undder the gnome-panel. An easy start+down with the place plugin moves the window down, else an alt drag will also do. But is there any way to prevent compiz from putting titilebars under the gnome-panel at the top of the screen? -- thing.
[gentoo-user] FN+keys on my dell inspiron 2200 keyboard
Hi! I just got my multimedia keys up and running on my inspiron 2200 keyboard by following this guide and using xbindkeys. http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Use_Multimedia_Keys I'm using a dell inspiron 2200 and I got my volume up and down keys recognized using the ff xbindkeys rules. Pretty cool, actually. "amixer sset Master 1+" XF86AudioRaiseVolume "amixer sset Master 1-" XF86AudioLowerVolume "amixer sset Master toggle" XF86AudioMute my keyboard looks like this http://www.laptopreparatie.nl/webshop/catalog/images/i1200_keyboard.jpg http://stephan-i.com/osc/images/D8883KB.jpg I'm basically not having any trouble with the volume keys. However, there are also keys for fn+eject fn+crt/lcd fn+wireless fn+hibernate fn+standy that don't seem to work firstly, I turn on my xev and press them. I get no response. watching my kernel messages, I get to see their keycodes in a message like this: Mar 7 04:00:31 titusx [11428.51] atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated s et 2, code 0x85 on isa0060/serio0). Mar 7 04:00:31 titusx [11428.51] atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e005 ' to make it known. I tracked down all the keycodes and was able to make a script of keycodes in my /etc/conf.d/local.start setkeycodes e005 133 setkeycodes e006 134 setkeycodes e007 135 setkeycodes e008 136 setkeycodes e009 137 setkeycodes e00a 138 setkeycodes e00b 139 (except for fn+standby, which neither gives a keycode in xev nor is detected by the kernel in its logs) I test these out in xev. But I get funky behavior. 1) the keycode that appears does not match the keycode I gave the fn+eject key, for example, I think is e00b. So it should be giving me keycode 139. However, xev detects keycode 188. 2) xev reports the key repeatedly being pressed and released endlessly even after I press it only once. KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x5d, subw 0x0, time 2603599, (589,435), root:(599,532), state 0x0, keycode 192 (keysym 0x0, NoSymbol), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 bytes: XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes: XFilterEvent returns: False KeyRelease event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x5d, subw 0x0, time 2603634, (589,435), root:(599,532), state 0x0, keycode 192 (keysym 0x0, NoSymbol), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 bytes: XFilterEvent returns: False KeyPress event, serial 29, synthetic NO, window 0x321, root 0x5d, subw 0x0, time 2603634, (589,435), root:(599,532), state 0x0, keycode 192 (keysym 0x0, NoSymbol), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 bytes: XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes: XFilterEvent returns: False on and on and on forever, until I click on another window to make it lose focus or I press another key. Assigning an action to the key confirms my suspicion. I try setting "eject" XF86Eject and no disc I put in stays in. XD Any ideas? -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Any Flash editor with gui?
unfortunately, I don't know any gui flash editors yet. However, since Adobe flash player 9 works on Linux now, there's probably a higher chance that the good old macromedia studio will work on wine (IIRC, macromedia studio [eww] runs on its own flash...?) Havent the time to check it myself, though. On 3/17/07, Mick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi All, I am looking for a flash editor like e.g. (Adobe) Macromedia Flash is for M$Windoze and AppleMac. My wife needs to learn how to create flash animations and I can't find anything in portage . . . Google tells me that F4L is a flash GUI editor, but probably needs some more development. I keep telling her to pull her finger out and learn some raw action script, but her M$Windoze-GUI dependency is hard to overcome. What do Gentoo people use to develop flash stuff? -- Regards, Mick -- thing.
Re: [gentoo-user] Any Flash editor with gui?
On 3/17/07, James Lockie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A lot of Linux users don't like Flash because it is not a standard. When Adobe makes the player source available, I bet we will see Flash compilers for other platforms. :-) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list Yeah, but I think in the long run, 'not liking flash' is a 'bad thing'. There's a lot of good blood in the flash community that is both willing and able to spontaneously develop 2 things Linux users want: games and User Interfaces. No I'm not saying do flash. I'm saying there's a substantial community base that's alienated by Linux users, and they have a lot to bring to the table if only there were 'liberated'. -- thing.
[gentoo-user] x11-terms/terminator and hide_window shortcut key
Terminator is a nice app that allows you to have multiple terminals in a single window, paned, tabbed, searchable, grouped to receive a single input, etc etc. It also advertizes that it allows you to show/hide window with a global shortcut key, essentially making it a quake-style terminal replacement++. I've been using it for quite a while but I haven't actually gotten the shortcut key to work. Even without the shortcut key, it's all kinds of awesome, though. Terminator claims it depends on python-keybinder for the show/hide function to work, but even after installing dev-libs/keybinder +python, pressing the show/hide window shortcut doesnt seem to do anything. Well, today's not a bad day to try something new: does anyone use terminator, and if so, has anyone ever gotten the show/hide shortcut key to work? -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
[gentoo-user] How does autotools/emerge/revdep-rebuild pick libraries when dependency-checking/compiling? (libpng12/14)
I'm installing a 3rd party binary on my system (odesk team) from here: http://www.odesk.com/community/linux I remember last time I just picked the latest 64bit fedora version, extracted their stuff, and placed it somewhere in opt. Recently though, the app has been giving me some trouble, so I checked if there was a later version and I was 3 minor revisions behind. Whoops! The latest fc version depends on libpng12. I still remember that whole libpng12 recompile nightmare a couple months back that forced me to do a near equivalent of emerge -e... hundreds of compiles, circular fails, some manual sedding, lafilefixer, revdeps, and all that gentoo fun later and I've gotten me to a pure libpng14 system in about a week. whoopee! I'll probably try the arch version instead, but I'm curious now. If ever I should install libpng12 (slotted to 1.2), what happens on my next emerge? Configure will use a libpng version to use for compiles, but which one will it use? Will my system still be mostly on libpng14 or is there a chance that some recompiles go back to libpng12? Havng spent so much energy getting it one way I'd rather not have it reversed. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
[gentoo-user] firefox-bin optimizations?
Heya, I noticed that my firefox-bin is a lot smaller in memory footprint compared to ordinary gentoo-compiled firefox. Does anyone know what compiler flags upstream applies to their firefox? I turned off the custom-optimization USE on mine assuming that it would follow upstream optimizations, but maybe it doesn't. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
Re: [gentoo-user] firefox-bin optimizations?
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Johannes Kimmel wrote: > On 09/30/2010 12:58 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> >> Heya, >> I noticed that my firefox-bin is a lot smaller in memory footprint >> compared to ordinary gentoo-compiled firefox. >> >> Does anyone know what compiler flags upstream applies to their >> firefox? I turned off the custom-optimization USE on mine assuming >> that it would follow upstream optimizations, but maybe it doesn't. >> > > I thought firefox-bin is a 32-bit binary. If you are using a 64-bit gentoo > it is likely you self compiled version is a lot bigger. That's right, firefox-bin is a 32bit binary, but I didn't expect the Virt size to have a nearly 3x difference (855MB vs 355MB) when loading the same tabs and running the same profile, or the Res size to have nearly double (200MB vs 130MB). Is this a speed vs size tradeoff thing? Because I noticed that my compiled firefox is doing something like 10-30 points higher in the google v8 benchmark than firefox-bin. But that's relatively a small improvement, I think my system would do better overall with the giant memory use reduction. Or is there an issue with having both firefoxes using the same profile dirs (not at the same time though). -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: firefox-bin optimizations?
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:37 AM, walt wrote: > On 09/30/2010 05:30 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Johannes Kimmel >> wrote: >>> >>> On 09/30/2010 12:58 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >>>> >>>> Heya, >>>> I noticed that my firefox-bin is a lot smaller in memory footprint >>>> compared to ordinary gentoo-compiled firefox. >>>> >>>> Does anyone know what compiler flags upstream applies to their >>>> firefox? > > Try entering about:buildconfig in the URL bar. Thanks! that's totally what I was looking for. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [ ] none
[gentoo-user] pam_permit on optional by default on pambase-20101024, but documentation says very dangerous
Hi. I'm usually slow at updating my gentoo machine, and I think I was behind by about a month from last update. Anyways, I noticed that the recent pambase-20101024 has pam_permit optional on for auth, account and password in /etc/pam.d/system-auth. That didn't sound real neat, so Iooked it up in the manual and it says "very dangerous, use with extreme caution." Following their advice, I look up pam_permit and try to understand why anyone would put it on by default, but the google hits I get on pam_permit are very terse. What does pam_permit do when set to optional for auth, account, password and session? Clearly I don't want my pam to start letting in everybody, but I doubt the gentoo team would either, so maybe I'm just misunderstanding. In the meantime I didn't allow it in. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none
[gentoo-user] Is there a standard sysctl-like way to modify sysfs files at boot time?
I want to do this: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2010/11/forget-200-lines-red-hat-speed.html in userspace, but automate it at boot time. it requires that I create and mount the cgroup subsystem in sysfs and sounds a lot like something that I'd do in sysctl for /proc/sys, but for sysfs rather than procfs. The only thing that comes to mind is to append to the local init script, but it's so close to what sysctl does that I feel like someone's probably written some tool for it. Is there one? -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [x] yes [ ] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a standard sysctl-like way to modify sysfs files at boot time?
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Monday 27 December 2010 19:37:29 Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > I want to do this: > > http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2010/11/forget-200-lines-red-hat-speed. > > html > > > > in userspace, but automate it at boot time. it requires that I create and > > mount the cgroup subsystem in sysfs and sounds a lot like something that I'd > > do in sysctl for /proc/sys, but for sysfs rather than procfs. > > > > The only thing that comes to mind is to append to the local init script, but > > it's so close to what sysctl does that I feel like someone's probably > > written some tool for it. Is there one? > > why? > > why not just patch the kernel? or wait for 2.6.37? Why trying the easily > broken userspace approach? I disagree. I think userspace is the best place to do this, not kernelspace, especially as I'm considering customizing the cgroup behavior further than that. I'm not sure why I'd call the userspace approach broken. It's different, not broken. > > btw - patch or userspace - what happens with apps not started from a shell? > Well according to the wiki article posted uses shell, and it doesn't affect non-shell behavior. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a standard sysctl-like way to modify sysfs files at boot time?
Neat thing, after I finished my kernel compile and did a reboot, the /sys/fs/cgroup directory appears by default, so I don't need to mkdir and can directly just place it in fstab. With zen-sources, at least, but it sounds like what upstream behavior should do. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [x] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [x] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] dual monitors and dual desktops
On Oct 25, 2012 8:45 PM, "Kfir Lavi" wrote: > > Hi, > I have a laptop and an external monitor. > I would like to have both monitors showing different desktops. > My aim is to have IRC and Email client on one side, and my shell and programming stuff on the other side. > Currently I managed to do a big virtual workspace with XRANDR, but it stretches the browser and it is hard to setup correctly. > I'm a Fluxbox user, and didn't find a way to define that starching the window, will not stretch outside of the monitor I'm on. If I recall correctly, USE=xinerama informs X clients to take multiple monitors into account when maximising. I have it enabled globally but i not sure which packages really need it. > This is why I would like each monitor have it's own desktop. > > Thanks, > Kfir > > virtual dual monitors: > xrandr --output LVDS1 --primary --mode 1280x800 --pos 0x0 --auto --output VGA1 --mode 1920x1080 --pos 448x0 --primary
Re: [gentoo-user] genkernel compile only one new module
make was specifically designed so that by default, it would only compile things whose dependencies had changed since last run. If your kernel config had not selected the object before, and all you do is add it as a module, then when you rerun make, only that module should be recompiled. However if you do built-in to module or vice versa, you're out of luck. On Nov 9, 2012 12:58 AM, ifj. Stefán István wrote: > Hello! > > I have a quite good kernel, but today I realised that I need a kernel > module that hadn't been compiled before. > Is there any way to compile only that new module, and not compiling the > whole kernel and all of the modules again? > > Thanks, > István > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 10:16:05 +0200 > nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva) wrote: > > > On 2012-12-14, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > > > I guess the other question that's lurking here for me is why do you > > > have /usr on a separate partition? What's the usage model that > > > drives a person to do that? The most I've ever done is > > > move /usr/portage and /usr/src to other places. My /usr never has > > > all that much in it beyond those two directories, along with > > > maybe /usr/share. Would it not be easier for you in the long run to > > > move /usr back to / and not have to deal with this question at all? > > > > I may be wrong in this one, but the idea I have is that your regular > > applications (so, most of them) all lie under /usr/ -- /lib /bin and > > others are for essential system tools. > > > > That was the original reason for having / and /usr separate, and it > dates back to the early 70s. The other reason that stems from that time > period is the size of disks we had back then - they were tiny and often > a minimal / was all that could really fit on the primary system drive. I'm sorry, but I just can't let this one go. The reasons are backwards. The limitation in free space was the original reason [1] why / and /usr were separated. In fact, /usr was supposed to serve the same purpose as /home - it was originally a directory for users. It's only a quirk of history that served to keep most of the binaries in /usr when the home directories were moved elsewhere to /home. Long story short, Unix, too, has its share of old farts that are unwilling to embrace change at anything faster than a glacier's pace. Just ask the Plan 9 folks. [1] http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html -- This email is:[ ] actionable [x] fyi[ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [x] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Gnome-Keyring not unlocking with Slim Autologin
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Stephen Griffiths wrote: > Is there some kind of rule where if you AutoLogin, you require some kind of > authentication when it comes to unlocking the keyring? That's how the keyring works, in principle. The keyring is a password-protected secret, and a typical desktop system would be setup so that the login password you used was also used to unlock the keyring. With autologin, no password is typed in, so gnome-keyring has no way of being unlocked without asking you for a password. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [x] fyi[ ] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:02:54 +0800 > Mark David Dumlao wrote: > >> > That was the original reason for having / and /usr separate, and it >> > dates back to the early 70s. The other reason that stems from that >> > time period is the size of disks we had back then - they were tiny >> > and often a minimal / was all that could really fit on the primary >> > system drive. >> >> I'm sorry, but I just can't let this one go. The reasons are >> backwards. The limitation in free space was the original reason [1] >> why / and /usr were separated. In fact, /usr was supposed to serve the >> same purpose as /home - it was originally a directory for users. It's >> only a quirk of history that served to keep most of the binaries in >> /usr when the home directories were moved elsewhere to /home. >> >> Long story short, Unix, too, has its share of old farts that are >> unwilling to embrace change at anything faster than a glacier's pace. >> Just ask the Plan 9 folks. >> >> [1] >> http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html > > Well fair enough. This stuff is becoming more myth than fact as less > and less people are around to remember how it really went. There may > even have been to-ing and fro-ing moving bits around till Ken and > Dennis settled on the eventual outcome in that post. > > Either way, we still agree. A separate /usr is, *for the most part*, a > tradition applied without much understanding of the reason (most > traditions are exactly like this). Most people do not actually need > it. The sweet irony here is that Poettering - the cause for all this mess - likely understood the logistics and rationale of the / and /usr split better than most of his detractors - I'm pretty sure I landed on that link by starting from one of his systemd tutorial pages, though I can't exactly remember which one. Thankfully, I've never had to maintain systems whose disks were small and low performing enough that it actually mattered to separate / from /usr. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > with redhat's push to move everything into /usr - why not stop right there and > move everything back into /? I originally thought this way, but they actually reviewed the technical and historical merits for all the use cases and and found /usr to be superior. Straight out of the freedesktop wiki: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge 0) If / and /usr are kept separate, programs in /usr can't be updated independently of programs in /, because the libraries they depend on might break compatibility. If the binaries and libraries were *all* in /usr, then the entire system's binaries would always be consistent regardless of where /usr were sourced from (config files in /etc, however, would still break). 1) There is historical precedent in Unix for /usr-centric systems, notably Solaris. 2) If /usr were separated from /, then /usr could be mounted read-only, with / being mounted "normally". Which makes sense, as / does have bits that are meant to be read-write. 3) Most software packagers write their binaries to a PREFIX defaulting to /usr/local, or /usr, as opposed to /. Determining which ones belong in / or /usr can sometimes be dependent on the distro and/or sysad. But since more of them default to /usr, if everything were in /usr it'd be a saner default. (0) basically says that keeping them separate only works as intended if the both the sysad and the distro upstream work together for their shared /usr mount. In many cases, however, sysads have to do a lot of working around and careful planning to get /usr mounted remotely. (1), (2), and (3) provide advantages to mounting the binaries and libraries separately from the / filesystem, which mounting them as part of / does not provide.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:01 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:42 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann >> wrote: >> > with redhat's push to move everything into /usr - why not stop right there >> > and >> > move everything back into /? >> >> I originally thought this way, but they actually reviewed the >> technical and historical merits for all the use cases and and found >> /usr to be superior. Straight out of the freedesktop wiki: >> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge >> >> 0) If / and /usr are kept separate, programs in /usr can't be updated >> independently of programs in /, because the libraries they depend on >> might break compatibility. If the binaries and libraries were *all* in >> /usr, then the entire system's binaries would always be consistent >> regardless of where /usr were sourced from (config files in /etc, >> however, would still break). > > Complete rubbish. If something in / needs something it should be in / > if something is in / that isn't critical it shouldn't be there and > won't matter. In all other cases everything exists. If you want some > special feature that adds complexity to your early boot up stage > or single user then that should be an optional package that installs > into /. Similar to ssh enabled grub, it's optional. Key here being "should" be. In theory, that's what should happen. In practice, either the sysad or the upstream fails to keep it that way. Here's a quick test: $ equery belongs /lib shows a list of packages installing to /lib. On my system, that's a lot, including ncurses, readline, glibc, consolekit, and god knows what other "basic" libraries a lot of programs are bound to depend on. Wouldn't it be fun if my / filesystem got updated to a new, oh I dunno, glibc, and my /usr filesystem didn't know all about it? _In theory_, such programs should be independent. But to implement this theory, either or both the sysad and the distro needs to ensure that (1) both / and /usr get duplicate essential libraries (2) no programs in /usr ever depend on any libraries in / i.e., _in practice_, the / and /usr split isn't being properly delivered by distros anyway. And Gentoo is no exception to that. My /usr/lib's libraries are just symlinks to the libraries in /, so I can't trust a system where the binaries and libraries in both filesystems aren't updated _together_. > >> 2) If /usr were separated from /, then /usr could be mounted >> read-only, with / being mounted "normally". Which makes sense, as / >> does have bits that are meant to be read-write. > > It certainly does not. There are packages that fix dhcp. I haven't ever > setup a system that needed to do that. Updates get temporary > controlled access. You're already assuming that all the other read-write folders (/var and /tmp) are sent off to different filesystems. That is definitely good practice, but is not a given. And /etc is config files, which is at least "semantically" a read-write thing - and in practice ALSO written to by packages like *cough* *cough* networkmanager. i.e., you're comparing / rw /usr ro to a series of bind mounts and/or extra filesystems or symlinking magic. Well yes, those can _still_ be done if /usr contained all the binaries, though. But combining the binaries and libs into /usr makes the simpler setup above possible. It isn't possible right now without some painstaking sysad work. > >> 3) Most software packagers write their binaries to a PREFIX defaulting >> to /usr/local, or /usr, as opposed to /. Determining which ones belong >> in / or /usr can sometimes be dependent on the distro and/or sysad. >> But since more of them default to /usr, if everything were in /usr >> it'd be a saner default. >> > > A concensus would be good. A right consensus is more likely to get a > consensus. This has no bearing on the matters at hand. /usr as the default prefix for installed packages is the "consensus" of the vast majority of packages out there. Why do you think this has no bearing on their consideration? -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:46:33 +0800 > Mark David Dumlao wrote: > >> > >> > A concensus would be good. A right consensus is more likely to get a >> > consensus. This has no bearing on the matters at hand. >> >> /usr as the default prefix for installed packages is the "consensus" >> of the vast majority of packages out there. Why do you think this has >> no bearing on their consideration? > > I'm just pointing out that despite what many seem to state there are > losses and unclear/non forth coming positive reasons or real benefits > to the current apparently to be imposed or your doomed "consensus" of > consolidating data. Once your at multi-user the whole filesystem is one > for all intensive purposes anyway and so much of what you have said is > misleading. It really shouldn't be a difficult problem to fix, it is > just data after all. I'm having trouble understanding the whole paragraph - my English parser must have been broken with my last emerge -uDNtav world. I'd revdep-rebuild, but my /usr is on nfs and rebuilding the binaries there would break them for the other shared clients. ;) -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 08:39:41PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote > >> You are only considering the case of /usr being on a plain hard disk >> partition, what if it in on an LVM volume, or encrypted (or both) >> of mounted over the network? All of these require something to be >> run before they can be mounted, and if that cannot be run until udev >> has started, we have been painted into a corner. > > I agree that there will always be a small number of corner-cases where > an initr* is required. What annoys me, and probably a lot of other > people, is the-dog-in-the-manger attitude > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_in_the_Manger where some people > seem to say "If my weirdo, corner-case system can't boot a separate /usr > without an initr* then, by-golly, I'll see to it that *NOBODY* can boot > a separate /usr without an initr*". This is misleading in two ways. 1) You're talking as if having a functionally merged /usr and / system (i.e., many programs needed by the sysad to fix a non-booting system are in /usr, and programs in /usr will break if /usr is not in sync with /) is a weirdo corner case. It is NOT. It is very likely how the vast majority of Linux systems on the planet work. Separate /usr is itself the weirdo corner case. It was in fact a weirdo corner case since day 1. 2) You're talking as if Lennart or whoever is breaking into your systems and actively preventing you from customizing it to boot a separate /usr. If this is the case you _really_ need to change your ssh keys, they wiped that vulnerability a couple years ago. Nobody's preventing you from building a custom system that cleanly separates / and /usr. But hey, don't pretend that even Gentoo does it correctly. Besides the equery tests in this thread, I've never personally confirmed that any other distro does - and Fedora cleanly admits that they don't.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Dec 24, 2012 10:00 PM, "Dale" wrote: > I have not > tested the theory but that is what people have been saying. Not only is > my /usr separate but it is on LVM partitons too. If I recall correctly, easy repartitioning was supposed to be one of the main reasons wy LVM was made in the first place. ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Bruce Hill wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:05:25AM -0600, Dale wrote: >> Bruce Hill wrote: >> >> <<< SNIP >>> >> > No initrd... >> >> YET!!! ROFL >> >> When eudev goes stable, then we can disregard that yet. ;-) >> >> Dale > > devfs still works wonderfully ... for principle, if no other reason, that file > server will *NEVER* have an initrd image You shouldn't need to wait for eudev. Technically any early mount system configured and done _before_ udev should do the trick. I mean, it's not like udev is even *essential* for boot - that we happen to depend on it is just a matter of convenience. Shouldn't be hard to write an rc script that does just that for anyone that hates init thingies bad enough. Just hardcode an n-second sleep and plug in the kernel detected device name. Do rc scripts count as "init thingies"? :) -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 4:00 AM, Dale wrote: > If I put / on LVM, I need a init thingy. No you don't. You could use a boot partition. Or grub2. > So, worked for ages, then it breaks when people change where they put > things. Answer is, don't change where you put things. Then things > still work for most everyone, including me. I'm not a programmer nor am > I a rocket scientist but even I can see that. If I can see it, I have > no idea why a programmer can't other than being willingly blinded. ;-) You have no idea why it's being deprecated because you STAUNCHLY REFUSE TO READ why so, even when it's blatantly being spelled out over and over again why it's being done that way. recap: many packages depending on udev keep putting stuff in their udev rules that depend on binaries in /usr. It's not udev's responsibility to fix or maintain these packages. Does it work for you? Ok. That doesn't mean it isn't broken. There's a couple of documents [1] [2] that spell out what /usr is supposed to be, and for many distros, it's _failing_ to meet those standards. [1] http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/usr.html [2] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEUSRHIERARCHY Again: /usr, according to what it's supposed to be, is deeply broken for a large number of distros. Even when it works - for you. / merging with /usr (or /, wherever the rest of the programs are supposed to be) actually fixes the breakage, because then udev or whatever programs in / can't be out of sync with the programs it depends on. The analogy here is like when people complained to Ted Tso that ext4 was not as stable was ext3 (exhibiting the same corruption problems as seen in xfs). No, that's not true. ext3 just happened to have a quirky behavior that gave the illusion of stability (the writes still failed to reach the disk) _for programs that were written broken_. Come ext4, which actually behaves as the standard is supposed to, and people complain that ext4 is the broken one. It isn't. Hm, was that a knock from the ghost of Unix past? > Since there is a way to continue > with the old way, which has worked for decades, Yes there is one. An "init thingy" is just one of them and the means to automatically make one is already available to all distros. Another thing you could do is run an early mount script prior to running udev. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Dale wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Bruce Hill >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:05:25AM -0600, Dale wrote: >>>> Bruce Hill wrote: >>>> >>>> <<< SNIP >>> >>>>> No initrd... >>>> YET!!! ROFL >>>> >>>> When eudev goes stable, then we can disregard that yet. ;-) >>>> >>>> Dale >>> devfs still works wonderfully ... for principle, if no other reason, that >>> file >>> server will *NEVER* have an initrd image >> You shouldn't need to wait for eudev. >> >> Technically any early mount system configured and done _before_ udev >> should do the trick. I mean, it's not like udev is even *essential* >> for boot - that we happen to depend on it is just a matter of >> convenience. Shouldn't be hard to write an rc script that does just >> that for anyone that hates init thingies bad enough. Just hardcode an >> n-second sleep and plug in the kernel detected device name. Do rc >> scripts count as "init thingies"? :) > > Is that what eudev is going to do? I follow -dev and according to the > eudev people they are going to support a separate /usr with no init > thingy. So, they have a plan to do this. From what they were posting, > they seem pretty sure they can do this. Contrary to all the noise in this topic, udev itself works on /. The thing is this: udev is now being _installed to_ /usr instead of /. This is an upstream decision. See, there's a common bug with a lot of programs using udev. They are also installed to /usr instead of to /. And so those programs will _silently_ fail when /usr isn't mounted. Silent failures are deemed a bad thing by some people, worse so than noisy failures, something to do with the Unix philosophy of failing early and loudly. Now, you can install udev to / if you want - by writing a custom ebuild that does just that. And it should, in theory, work. But if you want it to run without hitches, you _must_ make sure /usr is mounted in time for all the rules to run. That's why an early mount script will fix any issues with udev. One way of getting an early mount script - the most reliable and comprehensively tested one - is to use an "init thingy". I haven't used one in a long time, but you generally just run a script, mkinitrd/mkinitramfs/dracut, that generates it for you. The init thingy is a compressed filesystem that contains just enough tools and modules you need to test and mount your filesystems. Which, conspicuously, was supposed to be the reason for the / being separated from the /usr filesystem. But besides the point - it's not the only way. You could just write a mount script yourself, and force your mount script to run before udev does, by editing udev's dependencies in /etc/conf.d/udev. That will also fix any issues udev has with /usr. The eudev team did a different thing. They forked udev and changed some bits around that they didn't like. But the one thing they didn't fix - which by definition they cannot fix - is the fact that programs depending on eudev - and installed to /usr - will _still_ need /usr mounted beforehand to function properly. A lot of us don't have those programs, or invoke those programs late enough in the system uptime that /usr is guaranteed to be mounted. So we just coincidentally happen to not run into any trouble. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Dale wrote: > Feel free to set me straight tho. As long as you don't tell me my > system is broken and has not been able to boot for the last 9 years > without one of those things. ROFL Nobody's telling you _your_ system, as in the collection of programs you use for your productivity, is broken. What we're saying is that _the_ system, as in the general practice as compared to the specification, is broken. Those are two _very_ different things. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Dale wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Dale wrote: >>> Feel free to set me straight tho. As long as you don't tell me my >>> system is broken and has not been able to boot for the last 9 years >>> without one of those things. ROFL >> Nobody's telling you _your_ system, as in the collection of programs >> you use for your productivity, is broken. What we're saying is that >> _the_ system, as in the general practice as compared to the >> specification, is broken. Those are two _very_ different things. > > From what I have read, they are saying what has worked for decades has > been broken the whole time. Doesn't matter that it works for millions > of users, its broken. Yes, that is exactly what they are saying. What I am pointing out, however, is that there is, informally, a _technical meaning_ for the word "broken", which is that "the specs don't match the implementation". And in the case of /usr, the specs don't match the implementation. For like, maybe all of the Linuxen. > They say it is broken so they can "fix it" with a > init thingy for EVERYONE. Sorry, that's like telling me my car has been > broken for the last ten years when I have been driving it to town and it > runs just fine. NOBODY is telling you your system or that the systems of millions of users out there aren't booting. You're assigning emotional baggage to technical language. To push your analogy, oh, your car is working just fine. Now anyone with a pair of spark plugs and a few tools may be able to start it without you, but your startup _works_. Now imagine some German engineer caring nothing about you lowly driver, and caring more about the car as a system, and he goes using fancy words like "authentication systems" and declaring that "all cars have a flaw", or more incensingly, "car security is fundamentally broken" (Cue angry hordes of owners pitchfork and torching his house). Thing is, he's right, and if he worked out some way for software to verify that machine startup was done using the keys rather than spark plugs, he'd be doing future generations a favor in a dramatic reduction of carjackings. And if somehow it became mandated for future cars to have this added in addition to airbags and whatnot, it'd annoy the hell out of car makers but overall still be a good thing. And here the analogy is holding up: NOBODY is breaking into your car and forcefully installing some authentication system in its startup. And NOBODY is breaking into your servers and forcing you to switch to udev/systemd or merged /usr. You can still happily plow along with your system as is. Heck, you can even install current udev without changing your partition setup. Just modify the ebuild and have it install it into / instead of /usr. Or use an early bootup script. Or use an init thingy. > > The udev/systemd people sound like politicians. If anything, Lennart is the worst possible politician on the planet. He makes unpopular decisions, mucks around in stuff people don't want touched, talks snide and derisively, etc etc etc, because he's a nerd's nerd that knows nothing about PR and goodwill. The software is good, but that's about all he knows how to write. He's like DJB on crack. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Dale wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Dale wrote: >>> Mark David Dumlao wrote: >>>> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Dale wrote: >>>>> Feel free to set me straight tho. As long as you don't tell me my >>>>> system is broken and has not been able to boot for the last 9 years >>>>> without one of those things. ROFL >>>> Nobody's telling you _your_ system, as in the collection of programs >>>> you use for your productivity, is broken. What we're saying is that >>>> _the_ system, as in the general practice as compared to the >>>> specification, is broken. Those are two _very_ different things. >>> From what I have read, they are saying what has worked for decades has >>> been broken the whole time. Doesn't matter that it works for millions >>> of users, its broken. >> Yes, that is exactly what they are saying. What I am pointing out, >> however, is that there is, informally, a _technical meaning_ for the >> word "broken", which is that "the specs don't match the >> implementation". And in the case of /usr, the specs don't match the >> implementation. For like, maybe all of the Linuxen. >> >>> They say it is broken so they can "fix it" with a >>> init thingy for EVERYONE. Sorry, that's like telling me my car has been >>> broken for the last ten years when I have been driving it to town and it >>> runs just fine. >> NOBODY is telling you your system or that the systems of millions of >> users out there aren't booting. You're assigning emotional baggage to >> technical language. >> >> To push your analogy, oh, your car is working just fine. Now anyone >> with a pair of spark plugs and a few tools may be able to start it >> without you, but your startup _works_. Now imagine some German >> engineer caring nothing about you lowly driver, and caring more about >> the car as a system, and he goes using fancy words like >> "authentication systems" and declaring that "all cars have a flaw", or >> more incensingly, "car security is fundamentally broken" (Cue angry >> hordes of owners pitchfork and torching his house). >> >> Thing is, he's right, and if he worked out some way for software to >> verify that machine startup was done using the keys rather than spark >> plugs, he'd be doing future generations a favor in a dramatic >> reduction of carjackings. And if somehow it became mandated for future >> cars to have this added in addition to airbags and whatnot, it'd annoy >> the hell out of car makers but overall still be a good thing. > > I think your analogy actually proves my point. Instead of just getting > in the car and turning the key, they want to reinvent the engine and how > it works. It doesn't matter that it is and has been working for decades, I think your reaction proves my point about angry mobs torching his home without understanding what's being proposed. Your fine reading comprehension once again failed to catch the notion that in my analogy, all he invented was a mechanism that makes sure it was a key, not a spark plug, that did the starting. i.e., you're asking literally for a turnkey system, and that's literally what he invented, except that the system guarantees that it's a key that was turned. You have not said a THING about your misunderstanding of the use of the word _broken_ and you're continuing to peddle your hate-boner even after it's been shown that you're confused. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [Bulk] Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > > Again you don't break the spec unless you have to and you don't change > the spec unless it is an improvement or you have no choice. Non of > which is the case. Just like you do not mould a mail RFC to a > widely used technically inferior hotmail implementation. The spec - or implementation - of / and /usr separation is broken and has been for quite a while now. Nobody here's even bothered answering how the modern Gentoo distro / sysad would survive /usr being out of sync with /, for instance, or the fact that some udev programs tend to be located in /usr, or even just a solid detailed specification on the precise criteria for inclusion into /. Even the FHS is mum on all the extra crap we randomly decide between / and /usr to land in. You'd think, for instance, something as clear cut as filesystem manipulation tools, e.g., xfs_admin, would belong in /sbin rather than /usr/sbin. But no it's not. Or - for crying out loud, at least a text editor that isn't ed. Again, the broken state of the / and /usr split is a different thing from the usefulness state of your own already installed distro. TLDR: The spec is broken. > >> He's like DJB on crack. > > Except DJB made every Linux system on this planet more reliable simple > and secure through better coding practices and pointing out how buggy > sendmail was. Lennart if anything will accomplish the exact opposite > where systemd is used. If you have something more than FUD to back up your technical claims, go ahead. You're directly claiming that wherever systemd is used, the system will be less reliable and secure, and that Lennart isn't pointing out buggy behaviors in - what's the analogue for sendmail? oh yeah - SysVInit scripts. To carry the analogy, DJB's main point was that the size of the code was one of - if not the - most important factors in increasing code quality and security, and worked to make qmail and its configuration about as spartan as you can get. That's kind of the point of systemd unit files, trimming the boilerplate size to reduce gotchas like init scripts failing to detect whether a service is running or not, or if its dependencies have been started. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
