Re: [Possible Incubation] Apache Repo
On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: It has already been done there, at http://www.krysalis.org/ruper/ . Wasn't it already done with jjar and whatever the thingy in Maven is called? The developers of Ruper in the meantime have become Apache committers (two for Gump and one is coming in with JUDDI). The issue here is that Maven already has some code for this, and http://greebo.sourceforge.net/ is partecipating too. If you want to call it "Incubating Ruper and have others join" it's ok for me, as my initial idea is to use Ruper as a starting codebase, and have others add stuff, but I didn't want to make this a prerequisite for a Repo project. Maybe I should kick a release of jjar out :) geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Possible Incubation] Apache Repo
On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 09:02 AM, peter royal wrote: On Nov 9, 2003, at 1:52 AM, Roy T. Fielding wrote: We need CPAN, or apt-get, or fink, or something slightly more dependency aware but not so much so that we sit on our thumbs waiting for it to happen. ... there are no methods of storing large objects more efficient than a modern filesystem. Start simple and layer on top of that. +1 That's all the Repo needs to be. A filesystem layout and naming convention. That's all. With a spec, people are then free to go implement whatever they want to access it. And historically, much success have been derived from such simplicity. Barring their Z-80 card for the Apple IIe, Microsoft's fortune was initially based on a glorified program loader and file system specification, namely "DOS". :D -pete - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Possible Incubation] Apache Repo
On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 02:50 AM, Stephen McConnell wrote: Jason van Zyl wrote: On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 01:08, Stephen McConnell wrote: Jason van Zyl wrote: On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 00:35, Stephen McConnell wrote: Jason: I must confess that I am intrigued by your approach to collaboration! That's because you're at least as deficient as I am in the realm of collaboration. Neither you or I are any great shining examples of an ideal collaborator. You'll have to bear with me while I try to make ammends. I will try to bear with you. Oh really - take a break Jason! You idea of collaboration is very clear: http://lists.codehaus.org/pipermail/plexus-dev/2003q3/03.html How does Plexus staying at Codehaus have any bearing on the notion of my collaboration? ROTFL - and you can't figure this out for yourself? I can't. Can you explain? -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: incubator website is hosed
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 02:51 AM, Henri Yandell wrote: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Roy T. Fielding wrote: Personally, I've had my fill of this kind of crap being left on our public infrastructure. I shouldn't have to wait days to update a trivial website. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I am going to replace it with Anakia tomorrow. Slightly off topic, but isn't it about time that cvs.apache.org/anakia existed? And that the xdocs notation got standardised in some way? I'm using it in a bunch of places, but still have no real clue where the real anakia lives etc. It's a part of velocity. And quite frankly, the better solution is DVSL, also from Velocity - it's 100% compatible with the xdocs digested by Anakia, and easier to write. It's declarative like XSLT, but lets you do procedural Velocity wherever you want. geir Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Possible Incubation] Apache Repo
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 03:21 AM, Stephen McConnell wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I can't. Can you explain? Geir: I could - but to be honest I'm flat out on some really important stuff that I have to close. Can we come back to this in maybe at the end of this week? I'm sorry - but to answer your question properly and completely, I have to take into consideration several non-trivial aspect. I would simple prefer to do this properly and with due care. There are certainly some interesting social aspects that are worth documenting. Stephen. Fine by me. We all have real lives outside of here. Thanks. -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: incubator website is hosed
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 05:35 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Roy T. Fielding wrote: The /www/incubator.apache.org/ directory tree on minotaur contains both a checked-out incubator-site *and* the generated output of a forrestbot via incubator. It obviously can't be both. ... /geronimo (old CVS dirs) Wait a sec, you mean that Geronimo has a website that that it's hosed? http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo/ Well, i thought they had just a wiki, as have just a foo.txt file there. If they want to publish the site they have to check it into the incubator-site CVS AFAIK. I'm fine for them to also hand-publish it, but the yhave to make sure that every time I will do a cvs update, be it Anakia, Forrest, or you-name-it, there are not problems. No - there was a real site at one point, and even done in forrest. It wasn't the incubator boilerplate. I know because I did it (along with some others) when geronimo started. It's really important right now that we have a site to deal with the JBoss assertion that Geronimo developers took JBoss code and relicensed it. geir -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cvs commit: incubator/site/projects/geronimo index.xml
What happened to the stuff that we did have? On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 06:15 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: fielding2003/11/10 18:22:27 Modified:site/projects index.xml site/projects/geronimo index.xml Log: projects need a directory to place stuff on their website I have explicitly moved the status files in the projects/ dir so that they don't interfere with the websites that projects publish from their CVS contents. In this case IMHO the index page should simply reside in their CVS module and the proposal should be included in the single status document. But yes, we have to see where to put extra docs that are needed for incubation, like Geronimo has shown. I had thought that a single status file would have sufficed but it's not the case. Hence I'd go with this layout if nobody objects. incubator/ status/ index.xml geronimo.cwiki projectX.cwiki ... geronimo/ eventual extra stuff projectX/ eventual extra stuff ... projects/ geronimo/ (project site, use their CVS preferably) projectX/ (project site, use their CVS preferably) ... -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: incubator website is hosed
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 09:12 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... No - there was a real site at one point, and even done in forrest. It wasn't the incubator boilerplate. I know because I did it (along with some others) when geronimo started. It's really important right now that we have a site to deal with the JBoss assertion that Geronimo developers took JBoss code and relicensed it. IMHO the project websited do not belong to the "incubator" CVS, but the the project CVS. Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: > What happened to the stuff that we did have? You mean geronimo/index.html? It's in CVS, but not linked from anywhere, hence not on the site. I'm fixing it right now. I mean there was a page that had some simple FAQs answered, a pointer to the wiki, a pointer to the maven-generated site that James was playing with, etc. That would have been the ideal place to put the JBoss letter, so we can show we are actively working to address their issues. geir -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: incubator website is hosed
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 09:54 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... No - there was a real site at one point, and even done in forrest. It wasn't the incubator boilerplate. I know because I did it (along with some others) when geronimo started. It's really important right now that we have a site to deal with the JBoss assertion that Geronimo developers took JBoss code and relicensed it. Is this what you were looking for? http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator/site/projects/geronimo/ index.xml Judging from the change log (there are copies of that file in one form or another all over the attics, but people did a good job of keeping the CVS history), that is the file I remember seeing. Yep. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RT] Multiple Mentors
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 05:46 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Jochen Wiedmann wrote: Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: From the current incubations, it's becoming quite clear IMO that a single Mentor is not enough for most, if not all, incubated >>> projects. As far as JaxMe is concerned, we had so far more problems with missing replies on [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] The pmc issues have partially been addressed, and other changes are on the way. Now we have more real active committers and things are changing. In any case, the Mentors are on teh PMC, so the PMC responsiveness would increase with more Mentors that are active on the projects being there. Am I on the incubator PMC? I'm now assisting Jim in mentoring Geronimo... Dims, our mentor, is always replying. Excellent :-) I don't want to imply that Mentors are not doing their work, just that more of them would ease the burden. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Resolution of inconsistencies in CVS
On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, an inconsistency was noted in the Geronimo CVS, and thus it was taken offline for examination. Once all data was captured and a cursory examination was made, it was determined that the CVS repository was able to be returned to public access. The issue was that a jboss package name was noticed in a commit message but could not be found in the CVS history. The reference is in the file Strings.java, the code snippet : public static final String NEWLINE = org.jboss.util.platform.Constants.LINE_SEPARATOR; and can be found in this commit : http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=geronimo- [EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=105 This was in the first version of Strings.java imported by Jason Dillon. This class was one from a previous project of his, and had been contributed by him to Jboss as well. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jboss/jboss-common/src/main/org/ jboss/util/Strings.java?rev=1.1&view=markup The two files are identical except that there is a compare() method added to the Geronimo file, and some additional methods related to making URLs. These two differences are accounted for in the subsequent patches to the Jboss version, committed by Jason. Thus, it appears that Jason does have the right to re-license this code under the ASL for Geronimo. The referenced file, org.jboss.util.platform.Constants, was also contributed from by Jason to JBoss, and thus can also be relicensed under the ASL. After investigating (thanks for help and input from Noel, Dirk and others who might want to remain nameless), and a conversation with Jason, I draw the following conclusions : 1) Jason contributed the code to the Geronimo project and had the right to do so. 2) He made the mistake of forgetting to change the package name for the LINE_SEPARATOR constant in Strings.java before he imported the code. 3) Once he noticed the problem, he felt the best course was to simply remove the ,v file and re-import to reduce the chance of confusion and questions later. [hah!] Thus, I believe that we have no problem. My guess is that if he had brought up the issue when he first imported, he would have been advised to do generally the same thing : remove the ,v, and on the subsequent import note that this was the a 're-import', so that any future reviews of the commit stream and CVS history could account for the discrepancy. Thanks again for all the work contributed by everyone to solve this. I'm especially sorry that this interfered with the demonstration of the Pet Store running in Geronimo, but given the uncertainty at the time, we had no choice. Onwards to certification! geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Official Name for "Geronimo" Project
On Nov 29, 2003, at 2:20 PM, Henri Yandell wrote: On 29 Nov 2003, Jason van Zyl wrote: It's not like it's "Geronimo: the society of baby seal clubbers" or something nasty like that. It's a piece of free software that gives people some choice and it uses the name of a native indian hero. So some coke and twinkie consuming, pasty white programmer might actually learn something from looking up Geronimo. It's also a word that has entered the English language [probably via TV?] as something you shout while leaping whole-heartedly into something. Unless, of course, you *are* Geronimo, in which case you just yell "M!" (sorry - couldn't resist) geir Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Incubate Apache Repo
"Depot" On Nov 24, 2003, at 4:41 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote: -1: Repo is an American colloquialism that is short for "Repossession", which is not something you want in a distribution tool. You need to find a neutral name. Roy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Incubate Apache Repo
On Nov 24, 2003, at 5:29 PM, Adam R. B. Jack wrote: -1: Repo is an American colloquialism that is short for "Repossession", which is not something you want in a distribution tool. You need to find a neutral name. Ok, let's put the name as a "to be determined". "Geronimo" might be free soon... maybe you could use that... regards Adam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Incubate Apache Repo
On Nov 30, 2003, at 8:53 PM, Nick Chalko wrote: Stephen McConnell wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: "Depot" +1 +1 I like it. The sense of gathering and movement. with a Industrial feel. Nice. And whoever is in charge can be the "Depot Despot" geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Official Name for "Geronimo" Project
On Dec 1, 2003, at 12:53 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: In any event, I would table this to be resolved by the Geronimo what-ever-we-call-this-thing-currently-labelled-PPMC. Yikes. We don't have enough bicyles for this. Can we just call it the PPMC, until we decide to change the ASF bylaws and remove "PMC" from the lexicon? Or, does anyone mind if I resubmit the proposal/vote and add a subvote for what we will call it so we can get this out of the way and get $NAME_THINGY on it's way for the-project-that-might-be-called-Geronimo and others in incubation? geir P.S. Hey! I have an idea! instead of renaming the Geronimo project, why don't we make up a symbol that will mean "The Project Formerly Known as Geronimo" -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Official Name for "Geronimo" Project
On Dec 1, 2003, at 4:18 PM, Brian McCallister wrote:
Hmm, how about:
Apache ctx.lookup("apache/j2ee/name");
It's unpronounceable, but so is httpd ;-)
I can pronounce it, but I then have to wipe my screen :D
geir
-Brian
On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:18:15AM -0800, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On 12/1/03 12:16 AM, "Greg Stein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 07:10:16PM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
...
Appropriating the name "Geronimo" for our uses will cause, and has
caused, controversy.
I believe the only controversy has been from people who state that
the
name will cause controversy. IOW, it is entirely self-generated,
rather
than any *actual* problem.
Have we actually seen legitimate complaints? Or just *belief* that
they
will occur?
Could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a legitimate
complaint?
Somebody who is actually affected by the name. e.g. in this case, one
of
Geronimo's heirs or another custodian.
I think Sam is right: this is really just a bikeshed. Everybody has
their
particular color they want, and they feel they can contribute by
ensuring
their color is selected.
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: [ROADMAP] Incubator Reorganization and getting *real* stuff done
On Dec 2, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote: On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:58:02AM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: IMNSHO Geronimo can easily go on without a logo or a final name for a couple of weeks if needed, so I'll wait to get 3 done after 1 and 2 are done. Please don't postpone this any longer. Right - lets get the PPMC setup and have *them* deal with it. We have had a vote. Which of these are binding votes? ;) I would like to hear what the current Geronimo committers think about the vote, and if they are ok with selecting a new name (or if they are vehemently opposed to choosing a new name). I realize that a discussion about the name has already occured within the committers, but I don't know if that decision was unanimous. Can we get the committers to vote/voice their opinion here so we can finally wrap this up? They would in the PPMC. If you feel that it would be valid to have the committers decide - something I'm really glad to see - lets use this as a motivation to get the PPMC structure setup, get a mail list for them, and watch them go. Given that PPMC decisions are subject to PMC and board oversight, there's no risk in doing it this way. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ROADMAP] Incubator Reorganization and getting *real* stuff done
On Dec 3, 2003, at 12:27 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote: On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:04:58PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: On Dec 2, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote: [...] I would like to hear what the current Geronimo committers think about the vote, and if they are ok with selecting a new name (or if they are vehemently opposed to choosing a new name). I realize that a discussion about the name has already occured within the committers, but I don't know if that decision was unanimous. Can we get the committers to vote/voice their opinion here so we can finally wrap this up? They would in the PPMC. If you feel that it would be valid to have the committers decide - something I'm really glad to see - lets use this as a motivation to get the PPMC structure setup, get a mail list for them, and watch them go. Given that PPMC decisions are subject to PMC and board oversight, there's no risk in doing it this way. There most certainly is risk here. People want to get to work on their project, and they need to know the name is set in stone. We can't have people making logos and webpages and o.a.geronimo.foo classes when at the end of it all when it comes time to exit the incubator, they have to change everything they've been working on. I'm thinking you are confusing my point with someone else's comment, and also going beyond what we're supposed to do here. The Geronomo project is well w/in their right to change the name at the last moment, by the letter of the law. It would be momentously stupid to do that, of course. I didn't say "Give to PPMC and let them sit on it". I just think it's a tad arrogant for us to declare the game over w/o ONE project committer voting. Maybe you'd rather just use the PPMC as an avenue to ignore the votes of the Incubator PMC and those members who have said they want the name to change? Please, take a moment and reread everything I've posted on the subject. I suggested creating the PPMC in the first place to make sure that the project members are involved in the governance of their own project and cement the understanding that it must align with the ASF. I think that the incubator PMC dictating a change on a project that didn't get a chance to resolve an issue itself is exactly the opposite of what we want to teach people the ASF is about. I want the Geronimo PPMC to be formed, and given the chance to address the question. We can beat them about the head and neck with a stick later if we don't like their decision. But let them try to work it out. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ROADMAP] Incubator Reorganization and getting *real* stuff done
On Dec 3, 2003, at 3:55 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Aaron Bannert wrote: ... Can we get the committers to vote/voice their opinion here so we can finally wrap this up? We have decided that the name must be reconsidered by the project. IIRC, the Geronimo project is obligated to reconsider their project name as one of the conditions of Incubation. I have no idea why we had to vote on it... geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Re: request for incubation: axion database project
On Dec 18, 2003, at 2:02 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Now ... if you want to stop hand waving, and get down to brass tacks, my idea is that we would use [EMAIL PROTECTED] (with or without projects-ppmc@) for most projects like Axion that have a well-defined destination, a community, and are expected to sail through. We need to complete a STATUS page, especially regarding the IP, and vote on it. So you tell me, Jason, where is this all-consuming hinderance of which you speak? The preceding is my proposal for handling all such projects. Do we have to vote on that as a proposal, or can we move forward with it to test it to see if Jason's is right about endless process? I suggest we try it. Who would fill in the status page? -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Re: request for incubation: axion database project
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:58 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: ... Do we have to vote on that as a proposal, or can we move forward with it to test it to see if Jason's is right about endless process? I suggest we try it. Who would fill in the status page? Anyone. Why do you think that *all* incubating project committers have access to the incubator CVS? :-) There is also already a status page template: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/incubation- status-template.cwiki?view=markup My point was to get this going -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Granting committer status to log4net developers
On Jan 12, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Ceki Gülcü wrote: All the developers who have expressed an opinion on the matter so far were inclined to have separate repositories with separate access rights. The exact internal organization of the Logging Services is something that should be left for the Logging Services project to decide. The organization of your TLP is your choice. I was simply trying to point out an implication as I see it in terms of how a project's organization can effect Incubation. If a TLP treated itself as a single project with multiple shared codebases, then it may be easier to show that a codebase had a larger, more diverse, community than if each codebase were treated as a separate community. Eh. I think community doesn't matter at all when the Incubator is simply performing accountable legal oversight. If a TLP says they want a codebase from the outside, and we have determined that there are no legal impediments to that codebase from entering the ASF, then that should be that... geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Undermining the Incubator
On Jan 13, 2004, at 7:33 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Andrew C. Oliver wrote: All legal matters are for the Board and the Foundation's attorneys to address. Regarding audits ... There is a presumption of innocence in our legal system. I do not believe that due diligence requires an a priori presumption of fraud, and a investigation to "prove" its absence. Nor do I believe that due diligence requires all code to be subjected to http://www.catb.org/~esr/comparator/ across all published codebases, although that would be an interesting project. As I understand it, if we receive a signed CLA or Software Grant, there is a presumption that they had the right to provide it. Yes, because it would be fraud otherwise on the part of the signer or grantor. Of course, IANAL, but I think that there is no other rational way to operate. When you get that stolen car that's been reasonably represented as legit, you don't do extensive searches for indications of VIN alteration, do you? No? You do the basic due diligence (All papers appear to be in order?) and move on. If the car was stolen and the police find it, you may be out of the money given to the fraudster, but you aren't going to jail for grand theft. In this case, we'd be out of the codebase and the time spent around it, but we probably aren't liable if we had no inkling there was a problem and documented good faith efforts. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] graduate MerlinDeveloper from incubation
+1 -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Granting committer status to log4net developers
On Jan 14, 2004, at 6:09 PM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Eh. I think community doesn't matter at all when the Incubator is simply performing accountable legal oversight. If a TLP says they want a codebase from the outside, and we have determined that there are no legal impediments to that codebase from entering the ASF, then that should be that... but that's *not* all it's supposed to be doing. that's the stuff it *must* do for the legal well-being of the asf. for the social well-being, it also is supposed to ensure that people coming in with a new codebase understand how the asf works, how the voting model functions, the release process, peer review, et cetera. one of the reasons the incubator came into existence was because apparently a *lot* of people had become committers withoug any of that ever being made clear. ref the 'why the hell should i want to be an asf member' discussion last year. Community is important. I think that there are at least two categories of activity that the Inubator must do : 1) IP Vetting for largish software grants from outside coming into healthy active PMCs, to make sure that the code is unencumbered and properly licensed. I think MerlinDeveloper would be such an example? Or recent additions to Maven? 2) Community establishment for something new, like Geronomio, where you are bootstrapping a project from the ground up, or when bringing in an existing community from outside. I will agree that my comment was poorly placed, thread-wise, as the thread name has to do w/ what appears to be a #2 situation, bringing in log4microsoft :). However, my intent was to address issue #1, where it is possible for incubator just to preform the legal audit functions. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RESULT] JaxMe has now graduated (Fwd: Re: [VOTE] Graduate JaxMe from incubation)
I voted privately, but here's my public +1 On Mar 9, 2004, at 9:04 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote: There was a VOTE on [EMAIL PROTECTED] and we are VOTE'd to graduate JaxMe. Please go ahead and adjust the web site and wish you all best of luck :) thanks, dims Dims, as I have mentioned before, we cannot vote on such things on a private list, which is why I did not vote and why you did not receive sufficient +1s to graduate from incubator. I have no objection to moving ahead, but right now the only vote you have is my +1. Please record the votes by incubator PMC members on the public list. Private voting is only allowed for personnel issues, NDA-covered issues, and security-related issues prior to their public release. Roy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Upcoming Incubator PMC Chair Election
On Mar 18, 2004, at 5:11 AM, Greg Stein wrote: On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 08:17:30PM +1100, Berin Lautenbach wrote: OK. I'll start off by nominating Noel (although I think that was already done elsewhere?) Yup. Both Noel and Ken Coar threw their hats in the ring on the PMC list. and I second both Noel and Ken, if that's necessary. If not, just ignore me... geir I'd also suggest we timebox this. Can we allow a week for nominations? Yup. Then maybe a week for votes within the PMC? 72 hours is typical. I don't see much reason to draw it out. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Last Call for Nominations
Who is on the list? I recall Noel and Ken... On Mar 24, 2004, at 1:36 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: The period for Incubator PMC Chair nominations closes Thursday. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
+1 On Apr 21, 2004, at 1:17 PM, David Sean Taylor wrote: The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the Apache Portals project. My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as stated here: http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/ Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator -- David Sean Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apache Portals http://portals.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Beehive
On May 17, 2004, at 3:21 AM, Cliff Schmidt wrote: Incubator PMC folks, I would like to propose a new Apache project named Beehive. The proposal can be found at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BeehiveProposal. Since the project is being proposed as a TLP with three subprojects, I've requested that the Board consider this proposal at their next meeting. However, it is my understanding that the proposal should first be voted on by the Incubator PMC. I think that procedurally, it would first be accepted into the incubator, live there for a while, and then after the Incubator PMC votes it out of the incubator, it then would come under a vote by the Board for TLP status. Craig McClanahan has offered to be the Champion and Mentor for this project (as defined in http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/ Roles_and_Responsibilities.html). Davanum Srinivas is also interested in the project, particularly with the web services component. If this proposal is approved for incubation, I'd like to start a PPMC composed of these two Apache members, the other Beehive committers, and any Incubator PMC member who is interested in helping guide the project. I volunteer to help. geir Please let me know if you see any issues with this proposal that call into question whether it would be appropriate for incubation. Thanks, Cliff - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Beehive Incubation
+1 On May 18, 2004, at 8:48 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: I'm changing the subject to make it clear to those skimming their mail that this is a VOTE to incubate Beehive, based upon their proposal. See: http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList? [EMAIL PROTECTED] tor.apache.org&by=thread&from=769038 -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[NOTICE] Geronimo as TLP
All, The Geronimo team will be working over the next week to try to become an Apache top-level project. We would like all members of the community, including all interested Incubator PMC members, to participate in this process. We plan to do the following, in parallel: 1) Have a PPMC vote for graduation of the Geronimo project from incubation and be proposed to the Apache Board as a TLP. Specifically, we are looking to see if, in the opinion of the Geronimo PPMC (which includes the Incubator PMC), that the Geronimo community : o does collaborative development according to the ASF's philosophy and guidelines o has a codebase that is properly licensed, has clear provenance, and conforms to the ASF's legal requirements for contributions o should be recommended to the board as a top-level project I propose that we initiate the vote tomorrow evening on the Geronimo PPMC list after discussing any feedback and resolving any concerns. 2) Work as a community to create a proposal for the board and a supporting charter ready by 0500 GMT, Tuesday May 25th (monday midnight my time :) in order to give the board time to add to their agenda for Wednesday, May 26th. This proposal will, upon a successful 'graduation' vote by the PPMC, be submitted to the board as the formal proposal for creation of an Apache top-level project. The proposal will be of the conventional ASF format and detail : o The basic purpose and scope of the top-level Apache Geronimo project o The initial PMC o The names of one or more individuals that we recommend to be the PMC chair The supporting charter document will be additional details about the project that were not appropriate for the board proposal. This charter will be referenced by the board proposal. I will start both the proposal and charter work tomorrow with a 'seed' for each as two separate threads on the geronimo-dev mail list. Comments? geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[VOTE] Graduate Geronimo from Incubator and recommend as top-level project
The Geronimo project has been in Incubation for almost 10 months. In those 10 months, the Geronimo project has developed a community, developed a new codebase in an open and collaborative fashion, weathered problems both internal and external, formed a functioning group of committers to manage the day to day affairs of the project (the PPMC), demonstrated collaboration with other OSS groups in the enterprise software domain, and produced a milestone release of software. Therefore, I believe the Geronimo project has satisfied the requirements of the Apache Incubation process, namely : o does collaborative development according to the ASF's philosophy and guidelines o has a codebase that is properly licensed, has clear provenance, and conforms to the ASF's legal requirements for contributions Furthermore, I believe that the Incubator PMC, on behalf of the Geronimo PPMC and the entire Geronimo community, should recommend to the Apache Board of Directors to make the Geronimo project a top-level Apache project. If this pleases the chair of the Incubator PMC, I request that members of the Geronimo PPMC (which is the Incubator PMC and the Geronimo committers) please vote : [ ] +1 - The Geronimo project has met the requirements for incubation and will be recommended to the board for TLP status [ ] -1 - The Geronimo project as not met the requirements for incubation This vote will run ~72 hours, closing at 23:59 EDT, Sunday May 23, 2004. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Geronimo from Incubator and recommend as top-level project
+ 1 (of course) On May 20, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: The Geronimo project has been in Incubation for almost 10 months. In those 10 months, the Geronimo project has developed a community, developed a new codebase in an open and collaborative fashion, weathered problems both internal and external, formed a functioning group of committers to manage the day to day affairs of the project (the PPMC), demonstrated collaboration with other OSS groups in the enterprise software domain, and produced a milestone release of software. Therefore, I believe the Geronimo project has satisfied the requirements of the Apache Incubation process, namely : o does collaborative development according to the ASF's philosophy and guidelines o has a codebase that is properly licensed, has clear provenance, and conforms to the ASF's legal requirements for contributions Furthermore, I believe that the Incubator PMC, on behalf of the Geronimo PPMC and the entire Geronimo community, should recommend to the Apache Board of Directors to make the Geronimo project a top-level Apache project. If this pleases the chair of the Incubator PMC, I request that members of the Geronimo PPMC (which is the Incubator PMC and the Geronimo committers) please vote : [X] +1 - The Geronimo project has met the requirements for incubation and will be recommended to the board for TLP status [ ] -1 - The Geronimo project as not met the requirements for incubation This vote will run ~72 hours, closing at 23:59 EDT, Sunday May 23, 2004. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Geronimo from Incubator and recommend as top-level project
On May 20, 2004, at 11:49 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Geir : If this pleases the chair of the Incubator PMC *I* know that you're just having fun, but that phrase really sets the wrong tone for an organization of peers, and I wouldn't want anyone to perceive it as having any relationship to reality. You are right - this is an organization of peers, and I was just having fun. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: stop CCing the pmc lists
On May 21, 2004, at 3:43 AM, Roy T. Fielding wrote: Under no circumstance is it ever appropriate to cc the pmc list when talking on a public list. Just don't do it. The only reason we have that list is to talk about things that cannot be discussed in public. It is not "where the PMC lives". It is not necessary to get the "PMC's attention". The PMC are the people paying attention to the general/dev list *and* recognized as having binding votes -- anyone not paying attention to general is considered absent from the project until they have more time to get involved. I was just trying to make sure that it was seen :) thx geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Geronimo from Incubator and recommend as top-level project
On May 21, 2004, at 6:18 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote: +1 Many thanks to Geronimo's resident nudniks Geir and Noel. Nah. this is all possible and only possible because of the work and dedication of the geronimo community. geir -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [VOTE] Graduate Geronimo from Incubator and recommend as top- level project The Geronimo project has been in Incubation for almost 10 months. In those 10 months, the Geronimo project has developed a community, developed a new codebase in an open and collaborative fashion, weathered problems both internal and external, formed a functioning group of committers to manage the day to day affairs of the project (the PPMC), demonstrated collaboration with other OSS groups in the enterprise software domain, and produced a milestone release of software. Therefore, I believe the Geronimo project has satisfied the requirements of the Apache Incubation process, namely : o does collaborative development according to the ASF's philosophy and guidelines o has a codebase that is properly licensed, has clear provenance, and conforms to the ASF's legal requirements for contributions Furthermore, I believe that the Incubator PMC, on behalf of the Geronimo PPMC and the entire Geronimo community, should recommend to the Apache Board of Directors to make the Geronimo project a top-level Apache project. If this pleases the chair of the Incubator PMC, I request that members of the Geronimo PPMC (which is the Incubator PMC and the Geronimo committers) please vote : [ ] +1 - The Geronimo project has met the requirements for incubation and will be recommended to the board for TLP status [ ] -1 - The Geronimo project as not met the requirements for incubation This vote will run ~72 hours, closing at 23:59 EDT, Sunday May 23, 2004. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Apache Geronimo is a top-level Apache project
I'm happy to announce that the board today approved the proposal to make the Geronimo project a top-level Apache project. We'll be discussing the next steps later, but I wanted everyone to hear the good news here first. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: please update incubator info
On Jun 10, 2004, at 6:52 AM, Leo Simons wrote: Hi gang! someone still needs to go in and update the details related to geronimo in the incubator cvs module. Thx. I'll take care of it. geir cheers, - Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Anyone wants to incubate MyFaces?
On Jun 15, 2004, at 1:14 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Martin, Fine to hear that some interest is there! So far, I have heard from Dain Sundstrom (Geronimo) and James Holmes (Struts) that they are interested in participating on a MyFaces PPMC. I expect we'll hear from others, and ought to be able to decide this week about Incubation. I'll be happy to participate on the PPMC. It's not clear to me that Geronimo is the best place for it - Jakarta and Struts come to mind - but that's something for us to discuss over on Geronimo-land and get back to the Incubator about us being a sponsoring PMC. geir --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Summary ]Re: [TEST+VOTE] Lenya 1.2 Release
On Jun 15, 2004, at 2:46 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Mind you, building an end-user community is not an incubation priority. We care about IP and development community, and the latter ought to be able to participate directly from source control. Specifically, a comment like "it is important to get out official (incubation) release files soon since users and developers are waiting for a release to base their productive environments on" makes me nervous. We don't want people assuming that code in the Incubator has the same imprimatur as code from ASF projects. I try to avoid the term "release" in connection with anything related to the Incubator because in Jakarta terminology, a "Release Build" is an official production package, and that is not going to come from the Incubator. The focus ought to be on being able to leave the incubator, not putting out builds. But insofar as having feedback helps to build the developer community, that's worth supporting, IMO, so long as the nature of being in the Incubator is properly marked and explained. Perfect. I was reading through this thread and going to make the point if no one else did, but you did it as I would have, so I'll just add... +1 geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate XMLBeans from Incubator and recommend as top-level project
On Jun 18, 2004, at 9:59 PM, Cliff Schmidt wrote: [X] +1 - The XMLBeans project has met the requirements for incubation and will be recommended to the board for TLP status -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate SpamAssassin from Incubator, recommend TLP
On Jun 21, 2004, at 4:38 PM, Sander Striker wrote: [x] +1 - The SpamAssassin project has met the requirements for incubation and will be recommended to the board for TLP status -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Download location for Incubator distributions
On Jun 20, 2004, at 1:43 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: As per Cliff's previous email, files will be moved on www.apache.org/dist and the XMLBeans website will be updated. Since XMLBeans appears to be about to leave the Incubator, this needn't apply to it, but as we examine Incubator policies, I'm wondering if we should make it a policy that all distributions will go under http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/, which is what we did with Geronimo, and now with Lenya. Comments? +1 As for XMLBeans, 1.03 is already under http://cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/, so why move it now? Especially since XMLBeans will have to move stuff again within the next week or so. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Lenya 1.2 incubation distribution
I missed the deadline, but here it is anyway :) +1 On Jun 17, 2004, at 3:11 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Is it already possible to end and summarize this vote? There is a request that we approve clearly marked incubation distribution of Lenya to help further community development. The request has the support for Steven Noels and others in the Lenya community. There has been considerable discussion on the state of the community in conjunction with this request. [ ] Yes, allow Lenya to put out a clearly marked incubation distribution [ ] No, I object to such a distribution, on the grounds that: This vote will end Sat 2100 EDT. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Accept MyFaces for Incubation
On Jul 9, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: See: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MyFacesProposal [+1] Accept MyFaces into the Incubator [ ] Reject MyFaces Vote ends Midnight EDT (between Monday and Tuesday), Monday July 12, 2004. --- Noel Additionally : [+1] Voting templates :) -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal: modify incubation application process to require a reference to the code itself
On Jul 12, 2004, at 5:39 PM, Brian Behlendorf wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Brian Behlendorf wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: why? if the idea excites people but the code sucks, are we going to turn it down? In that case, we might decide to accept a new project into the incubator for the same purpose, but decide not to accept the sucky code. java.apache.org history shows a long history of failures in incubating projects without code. jakarta doesn't, exactly because we established that rule. It would be a *major* step back if we lifted that requirement. Keep in mind that availablility of the code is a requirement during incubation, of course. The question is what's an appropriate bar to set *before* a project is accepted into the incubator. I can imagine cases where it might be reasonable to suggest such a thing ;) geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Accept JCR for Incubation
nced with working in a distributed environment. 1.1.2.4. Reliance on salaried developers JSR 170 is supported by over 22 independent companies. It is hoped that they will all want to participate in this project as well once incubation is under way. The initial committers include individuals from seven independent organizations. 1.1.2.5. No ties to other Apache products This work has been envisioned from its beginning to become an Apache project, within the constraints imposed by the Java Community Process (argh!). We have kept the RI development visible through parallel commits to the Slide CVS. As described above, we expect this implementation to be used by several existing Apache projects. A software grant will be signed to allow Apache to distribute the entire code base under the Apache License 2.0. 1.1.2.6. A fascination with the Apache brand The committers are intent on developing a strong open source community around JCR. Apache was chosen because of the people involved and the emphasis on collaboration. Day Software is committed to supporting the future open source development of JCR and to distributing the result of that development as the official RI and TCK for JSR-170. 1.2. Scope of the subprojects RI, TCK, related tools, and website. 1.3. Identify the initial source from which the subproject is to be populated All code is currently licensed under the Day RI License 2.0, the same addendums to the Apache License 2.0 that have been discussed on Apache licensing lists. The code base will be licensed to the ASF using a software grant from Day, allowing Apache to relicense as pure Apache License 2.0 code. A factual notice should be added to the distribution to indicate that only the official version of the TCK can be used to "pass the TCK", but that will not be a condition on the software grant. 1.4. Identify the ASF resources to be created 1.4.1. mailing list(s) * jcr-ppmc via incubator.apache.org (with moderated subscriptions) * jcr-dev via incubator.apache.org * jcr-commits via incubator.apache.org 1.4.2. CVS repositories * incubator-jcr 1.4.3. Jira * JCR project with categories for RI, TCK, Tools, Docs 1.5. Identify the initial set of committers +-+ |Roy T. Fielding |Day |ASF, httpd, APR, incubator| |-++--| |Stefan Guggisberg|Day |Slide | |-++--| |Stefano Mazzocchi|MIT |ASF, Board, Cocoon, Gump | |-++--| |David Nuescheler |Day | | |-++--| |Peeter Piegaze |Day | | |-++--| |Gianugo Rabellino|Pro-netics |ASF, Cocoon, Xindice | |-++--| |Tim Reilly |Independent |Jakarta-Commons | |-++--| |Marcel Reutegger |Day | | |-++--| |Paul Russell |Independent |Cocoon | |-++--| |Andrew Savory|Luminas |Cocoon | |-++--| |Tobias Strasser |Day | | |-++--| |Sylvain Wallez |Anyware Technologies|ASF, Cocoon, Avalon | +-+ 1.6. Identify Apache sponsoring individual * Roy T. Fielding, champion and mentor for the project, (as defined in <http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/ Roles_and_Responsibilities.html>) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Accept iBATIS for Incubation
+1 On Aug 22, 2004, at 9:52 PM, Clinton Begin wrote: See: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IbatisProposal [ ] Accept iBATIS into the Incubator [ ] Reject iBATIS Vote ends 12pm (Noon) EDT, Thursday August 26, 2004. Clinton - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Derby code copyright question
I've been lurking on the Derby list, and there's a discussion about code copyright. Why isn't all the code (c) ASF? -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Derby code copyright question
Thanks for taking care of this, but there's something I don't understand : Once all the copyright at the top of files are converted to (c) ASF, which portions would still be (c) IBM? geir On Sep 24, 2004, at 7:27 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- okey, after discussing this in seven different directions, we have a clear conclusion, which i'll summarise here: 1. the NOTICE file (or NOTICE.txt) gets created if it doesn't already exist, and this gets added to it: Portions of Apache Derby are © Copyright 2004 International Business Machines Corporation. All rights reserved. if there are earlier copyright years in any any of the main files, the earliest one of all should be taken and used to change the notice to 'Copyright , 2004 International ..'. in other words, the range of copyright years in the NOTICE file should be the earliest one with IBM's name on it in the sources, followed by ', 2004'. 2. the ibm copyright in the individual files gets replaced with Apache Derby © Copyright 2004 The Apache Software Foundation. All rights reserved. and reference to the apache licence added as described in http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html#apply et vóilà! that item can then get checked off the incubation goal list and we can focus on *real* code issues. :-) see also http://www.apache.org/dev/apply-license.html for common questions about this stuff. the procedure above, which has finally been clarified, should be used by the incubator folks to update that file at some point. - -- #ken P-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBQVQEoprNPMCpn3XdAQFadwP9GvqVgzI6tUffUeJh80QofQ5kmQr4hq7K NKDjnZHzjbMH5aGrximoeXSly9L/a96/7r0ESfBRI+xoy4NQZ0C9ebuj41qeO0DU jAxE4tE0bLZx+kvZ0VwyjbBI095I9hy3b2D7hOMuUTBTJGvaYztlQYiZjqr+d5HT tuj9tNE4Xj8= =Lg7h -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Agile
On Oct 11, 2004, at 5:36 AM, Sarel Botha wrote: Hi everyone Is the source code to projects in the incubator not available for download yet? Not yet - it's not in yet. Coming. Please keep watching this space. Also, we can discuss any questions, ideas, and things you want to see before hand... geir Thanks, Sarel Botha Document Advantage Corporation 595 Cypress Gardens Blvd. Suite 310 Winter Haven, FL 33880 863.326.6360 x229 <http://www.docuvantage.com/> www.docuvantage.com Improving the Way you Manage your Documents -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: intesets in Apache Agila
On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Cooke, Matt wrote: Hi, we are building the same kind of code. I was wondering if I could join in and see what this project is all about. Of course! Given the absence of the code, do you want to just chat about what you'll be looking for? I can provide answers as to what this code will do so far. I was hoping to get the code in this week, but it's not going to happen. Next week. There are minor administrative and logistical issues I'm resolving, in parallel with some work responsibilities that came up. I apologize for the delay. geir Matt Cooke (239) 598-3131 x 2355 -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Donation of JAXP 1.3 Sources to Apache
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Apache Agila : BPM engine
All, The Jakarta PMC has voted to accept in Jakarta the contribution of a BPM engine from Gluecode, my employer, and I am starting the basic work of getting it into [and out of] incubation. Currently called "Apache Agila", it is a small, lightweight BPM engine that we have developed as the core of our BPM product. BPM is an important part of the Java server-side stack, and we feel that this contribution will be a great 'seed' for a full-fledged BPM project at Apache. At the ASF, you can find a fairly rich set of parts for an enterprise application stack, such as Geronimo, Tomcat, Derby, Jetspeed, Pluto et al, and now there's the addition of BPM. The engine has no dependencies upon platform (like J2EE), and I'm guessing that it's easy to embed this engine into the popular framworks and platforms, such as hivemind, spring, struts, pico, etc. Agila will arrive with simple HTML GUI via a servlet, and JDBC-based persistence, but these are services that can be replaced with other implementations. For example, the Gluecode product does a JSR-168 portals and J2EE-based implementation of the services. Anyway, this is a notice of what's happening, and an invitation to all to come and participate in the project. I've CC-ed [EMAIL PROTECTED], but lets keep the conversation about it here in the incubator for now. I'll be setting up the mail-lists first, and will note when that happens so we can switch . Thanks geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
On Sep 30, 2004, at 7:12 AM, Endre Stølsvik wrote: On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: | All, | | The Jakarta PMC has voted to accept in Jakarta the contribution of a | BPM engine from Gluecode, my employer, and I am starting the basic work | of getting it into [and out of] incubation. BPM.. Rite. DJ-lingo: "Beats Per Minute" Some journal: "British Postgraduate Musicology" BSD: "BSD Ports Manipulator" Here we got it, I guess: "Business Process Management" ? Sounds cool! What is it? BPM is the [IMO] overused, general term for a whole host of technologies and systems to automate business processes. In this case, it's a small execution engine and simple services that process 'workflows'. A workflow, or business process, is a set of activities and tasks that are connected to complete a larger task. For example, processing a loan application may take may people many steps, and a workflow system allows that step sequence to be constructed and executed. it will be easier to explain when I get the code in there. I'm offline this weekend, but we're working on moving the code to teh Apache license, doing the paperwork, and will be bringing the code here ASAP. geir Endre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
On Sep 30, 2004, at 3:50 AM, Paul Russell wrote: Geir, On 29 Sep 2004, at 19:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Currently called "Apache Agila", it is a small, lightweight BPM engine that we have developed as the core of our BPM product. BPM is an important part of the Java server-side stack, and we feel that this contribution will be a great 'seed' for a full-fledged BPM project at Apache. At the ASF, you can find a fairly rich set of parts for an enterprise application stack, such as Geronimo, Tomcat, Derby, Jetspeed, Pluto et al, and now there's the addition of BPM. [...] Anyway, this is a notice of what's happening, and an invitation to all to come and participate in the project. If you're looking for volunteers, Count Me In..! I've been hoping Apache would get into the BPM space, as I have an ongoing project which is going to need a reliable BPM engine in the not-too-distant future. I wouldn't claim to be a BPM expert, but I understand the fundamentals, and have a very good grasp of what large enterprises need in a BPM product. Fantastic. Having you driven by 'user need' will be great. I've been on the user side - I architected and built two systems before - but now I'm on the vendor side, so it will be good to have the balance :) geir Cheers, Paul -- Paul Russell E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] iChat/AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
On Oct 3, 2004, at 5:57 AM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote: This is the current URL (and it exists!) - but there is not much info there at the moment: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/ No - I got caught by surprise with some work things, and a wedding. We're working to get more info here, and the code to the ASF as fast as possible. geir Andreas - Original Message - From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 4:09 AM Subject: RE: Apache Agila : BPM engine There's more info posted on the Agila Incubator site at the following URL: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila.html That is only the status. The site's URL, when there is one, would be: http://incubator.apache.org/agila/ --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/
On Oct 3, 2004, at 1:24 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Geir, That's not where the project's own web-site goes. I'm sure that you copied from what you saw, but there are some artifacts from older projects that did things differently, and we now have a convention for where things go. :-) We should create https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila, and move https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/site-publish/ project s/agila to wherever under the agila project's structure you want to keep your site sources. The same is true of the generated artifacts, which you will want to check out under /www/incubator.apache.org/agila/, so that the URL is incubator.apache.org/agila/. Thx Noel. Will do. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
On Oct 1, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: There's more info posted on the Agila Incubator site at the following URL: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila.html That is only the status. The site's URL, when there is one, would be: http://incubator.apache.org/agila/ Oh. I have the site going to incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/ I can move it if your URL is the new required format. geir --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
On Oct 1, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Julian wrote: Geir, I have been evaluating BPM for some time now, and was just about to implement one when this happened. I am now very curious and excited to see how Gluecode's engine was constructed. There is little documentation on Gluecode's site so I would greatly appreciate any answers you can give to the following: Yes - Gluecode is the entity donating the software, and it will be here at the ASF. Note that this isn't Gluecode's commercial product, but the core engine the product is based on. 1) Does the engine run standalone or in a servlet container? It was designed with this question in mind :) The core engine is simple J2SE, depending on a set of services to provide functionality. You can choose to implement those services in whatever technology you choose. Agila will come with 'in-memory' services - non-persistent - as well as JDBC-based services as well. it also comes w/ a servlet UI that it 'hangs' in, for users to upload processes, start instances, view instances, and interact w/ notifications and tasks. But that servlet based UI is there to help humans interact w/ the engine. The engine has no servlet dependencies. 2) What process definition languages are supported (i.e. XPDL, BPEL-WS, etc.)? None of the above :) We looked at several, and decided the best way for us was to do our own. The reason is that our current customer-base is very 'human task' focused, rather than webservice orchestration focused. However, BPEL is on our product roadmap, and thus we have an interest as Agila community participants to get it into Agila somehow, if the rest of the community agrees. 3) Is there a graphical process designer? We have one in our commercial product, and will not be giving that to the ASF. However, that means that there's plenty of room in the project for one :) I'm totally +1 for seeing one created here in the project. 4) Is there a webapp that can be prototyped? If so, can it manage "process driven wizards" (i.e. affect the page flow based on decisions made by the engine)? I don't think I fully understand what you mean, but right now, you can create a workflow which does web-based UI to allow the engine to solicit input from humans and act on that input. So, while I never thought of it that way, yes - you could produce a workflow that just produces tasks for a user to do. The current UI is generic - the user logs in and gets to see the list of tasks waiting for the user. However, a servlet could easily use the engine's taskservice to drive a sequence of pages based on those tasks. The task model goes something like this : 1) for a 'node' of activity in the workflow, the engine calls a 'begin' method. This method gets to analyze the instance data, and maybe do something, like assign a task to the user, fling a request via WS or soemthing else to another machine, etc. Then it indicates to the engine to wait for the 'outside' to trigger advancement. When the user decides to do a task, the framework solicits from the activity that assigned the task a 'Renderer' that produces the UI for doing the task. Our product uses JSR168 portlets, but this is an implementation extention, and you could choose whatever you wanted. Once the user completes the form (for example), the activity is then asked to validate the data, indicating if the input is enough, or the UI needs to be rendered again for correction. If ok, the data is sent into the engine via a 'continue' message for that instance, and the engine calls the 'end' method for the activity, in which it can process the data that was input. We do this present/gather/passByMsg thing to ensure that we aren't modifying the instance state in the UI transaction, but rather inside the engine. 5) Does the code support any of Wil van der Aalst's patterns (http://tmitwww.tm.tue.nl/research/patterns/)? If so how many? I've gone through them a little, but not in detail. There is a fork/join, for example. Again, please feel free to answer any of my questions. I apologize for not being patient, but I find this terribly exciting!! I'm sorry about the delay in answering. I was offline this weekend at a wedding, forgetting about code for 2 days :) geir -Julian --- Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sep 30, 2004, at 7:12 AM, Endre Stølsvik wrote: On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: | All, | | The Jakarta PMC has voted to accept in Jakarta the contribution of a | BPM engine from Gluecode, my employer, and I am starting the basic work | of getting it into [and out of] incubation. BPM.. Rite. DJ-lingo: "Beats Per Minute" Some journal: "British Postgraduate Musicology" BSD: "BSD Ports Manipulator" Here we got it, I guess: "Business Process Management
Re: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/
On Oct 3, 2004, at 6:27 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Roy T. Fielding wrote: It is better to have incubator/agila/trunk ../tags ../branches ../site-publish That is a suitable variation on the theme. I expect that we'll continue to refine best practices for how the repositories are organized. Ok! Will do this then! geir --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
Sorry about delay - on the road this week... On Oct 4, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Julian wrote: Geir, Thanks for the response. Could you clarify a few more things for me? The core engine is simple J2SE, depending on a set of services to provide functionality. So how hard would it be to make the system J2EE compliant? Depends what you mean by "J2EE complaint". I use the core engine Gluecode's commercial product, which is J2EE. I don't think it's hard. JMS for the message pump, SLSBs for the services, and will do EJBs for persistence. I don't think it's hard :) 3) Is there a graphical process designer? We have one in our commercial product, and will not be giving that to the ASF. However, that means that there's plenty of room in the project for one :) I'm totally +1 for seeing one created here in the project. sorry to hear that...it seems like this would really help foster adoption especially since the flow lanuage is not standards based. any chances of changing your mind ;) ? No :) I must admit I find the jBPM server very attractive and am curious why one should choose this over jBPM. Could you help me out with some differentiating points? I don't want to do that :) Look at both, and choose which you want to use. jBPM is more mature, certainly, but Agaila presents quite a bit of opportunity to shape into what's new and current. Choose what makes you happy. Otherwise thanks a lot! I can't wait to take a look at the code. -Julian __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Agila - BPM
On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:45 AM, Robin Antony wrote:
What is the status of the Agila project? Are the requirements specs
done? Is there any initial source code available?
Is this part of any JSR implementation? Good Luck for this project!
I am currently in the process of getting some nips and tucks done
before delivering the code. It will be here next week.
Currently, there is no JSR impl, although we should look at 208 :)
geir
Best Regards,
Robin Antony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bruce Snyder wrote:
This one time, at band camp, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
What is BPM? You might at least explain the acronym on your index
page!
Geir explained in previous messages that he is working on getting
the site in place.
FWIW, BPM = Business Process Management (i.e. workflow)
Bruce
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http://www.castor.org/
Apache Geronimo
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo.html
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Re: Apache Agila : BPM engine
Yes - this is currently at the Apache Incubator as it goes through IP checking and such - I added agila to the incubator site last night, and will be creating the mail lists later this weekend. Until then, lets bring discussion over to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mail list. geir On Sep 29, 2004, at 3:41 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote: Sounds interesting. Is a more detailed description availiable somewhere ? Andreas - Original Message - From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: Apache Agila : BPM engine All, The Jakarta PMC has voted to accept in Jakarta the contribution of a BPM engine from Gluecode, my employer, and I am starting the basic work of getting it into [and out of] incubation. Currently called "Apache Agila", it is a small, lightweight BPM engine that we have developed as the core of our BPM product. BPM is an important part of the Java server-side stack, and we feel that this contribution will be a great 'seed' for a full-fledged BPM project at Apache. At the ASF, you can find a fairly rich set of parts for an enterprise application stack, such as Geronimo, Tomcat, Derby, Jetspeed, Pluto et al, and now there's the addition of BPM. The engine has no dependencies upon platform (like J2EE), and I'm guessing that it's easy to embed this engine into the popular framworks and platforms, such as hivemind, spring, struts, pico, etc. Agila will arrive with simple HTML GUI via a servlet, and JDBC-based persistence, but these are services that can be replaced with other implementations. For example, the Gluecode product does a JSR-168 portals and J2EE-based implementation of the services. Anyway, this is a notice of what's happening, and an invitation to all to come and participate in the project. I've CC-ed [EMAIL PROTECTED], but lets keep the conversation about it here in the incubator for now. I'll be setting up the mail-lists first, and will note when that happens so we can switch . Thanks geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Donation of JAXP 1.3 Sources to Apache
On Oct 19, 2004, at 1:40 AM, Neeraj Bajaj wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: This is an update to the existing code that is already there. It is, I suppose, a new grant of software to an existing community, so I think that what we need is the grant documentation from Sun*, have that entered into the incubator, and move from there. Code grant details can be found at : http://www.apache.org/licenses/#grants I checked on this one, This work involves legal and is being worked with legal now. Please don't have them use that. We are working on a new version. Who in Sun legal is doing this? I've worked w/ a few people there for various projects, and happy to talk to them. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BPEL
On Oct 18, 2004, at 8:50 AM, Hookom, Jacob wrote: Is there anything going on with the Business Process project? I just got the first drop of code in svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila/trunk/ There is no docs, and pieces are still missing, but we'll keep contributing here :) I was going to add a simple readme.txt before announcing... Jacob Hookom Senior Analyst/Programmer McKesson Medical-Surgical, Minnesota - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Percentage of projects using Subversion was Re: Donation of JAXP 1.3 Sources to Apache
On Oct 19, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: --On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:56 PM -0400 Neil Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd also be curious to know what proportion of Apache projects have migrated to SVN so far? There would be a significantly higher amount of churn caused to the community by an SVN migration than was caused by our earlier Jira migration; so I'd prefer to go down a well-trod path than be on the bleeding edge in this particular instance. <http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/> A fair number of projects have already converted and a few more (such as httpd) have already agreed to convert, but are waiting for the 'right' time to convert. (My hunch is a bunch more might migrate at upcoming AC'04.) For more info, please see: <http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html> I'm happy w/ svn. I really wish I had some minimal support in IDEA, but "svn stat" and "svn move" make up for it :) geir HTH. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BPEL
On Oct 19, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Uijin Hong (홍의진) wrote: I'v just checked out the source and hanging around with the maven configurations. And I found that 'gluecode' is being used as maven group-id and artifact-id is missing. I think we should remove the 'gluecode' from agila, isn't it? Yes - thanks, and it's done. geir On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:26:44 -0700, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Oct 18, 2004, at 8:50 AM, Hookom, Jacob wrote: Is there anything going on with the Business Process project? I just got the first drop of code in svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila/trunk/ There is no docs, and pieces are still missing, but we'll keep contributing here :) I was going to add a simple readme.txt before announcing... Jacob Hookom Senior Analyst/Programmer McKesson Medical-Surgical, Minnesota - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Uijin Hong (홍의진) http://runeconsulting.com/heartbit/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
This is great. We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila. I'll take a look. We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to make a workflow that mixes them. So it was planned that we'd get BPEL support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila workflow using a namespace or something. Of course, we can decide if we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling arguments for that kind of approach... geir On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: Hello, I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More can be found about Twister here: http://www.smartcomps.org/twister I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more users and contributors to Agila. Regards, Matthieu Riou - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 20, 2004, at 7:03 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: I'm going to have a closer look at Agila to see how Twister can fit here. Is there anything I should look at beside the Subversion repository? Twister's engine core is somewhat tied to WS-BPEL. Our approach was a bit different, we didn't try to build a meta-model or anything too generic. Our plan was just to extend the engine if other workflow patterns were needed and not included in BPEL and stick with the specs for the rest. Anyway I'll just check Agila and see how Twister and WS-BPEL could be integrated into it. We could work out a way to stick with your original plan which, I agree, may be better for a generic workflow implementation. If you have any question about Twister, just let me know. We have a model of 'activities' in the workflow graph that generally can do what they want as part of their action. They are 'two phase' - when execution gets to that node, a start method is called, in which the activity can "do something" - trigger an external action on another system, create a task for a user - and then indicate to the engine if execution should continue to the activities doEnd() method, or just stop and wait for an external message to trigger continuation to the doEnd() method. To illustrate for a task, where the activity sets a task for a user, waits for the user to do the task, and then with the data from the task (say the user had to fill in a form), process the data and continue. So for example, the flow for a simple task is : - engine calls 'doStart()' - doStart() does whatever and then adds a task for a user. - doStart() returns 'false', indicating that the engine should not continue execution - some time later, the user does the task, which results in a message going to the engine w/ the data entered by the user - the engine gets the message, calls doEnd() to allow the activity to process the data, and continue based on state data and task data This allows for activities that are asynchronous, which I imagine would be perfect for asynch webservices. To contrast to an activity that doesn't need input from outside, like adding a notification for a user, or getting data from somewhere synchronously : - engine calls 'doStart()' - doStart() does whatever - doStart() returns 'true', indicating that the engine should continue execution - the engine immediately calls doEnd() so in this, an activity can do a synchronous call to the outside, although synchronous external execution can be a performance killer... Anyway, given this, I thought BPEL execution could be taken care of by one or more activities that do the WS execution. Now, I'm fairly ignorant about BPEL, so I'm interested in what kind of execution model you'd need. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LGPL / Apache (Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila)
On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote: I noticed that Twister is licensed under the LGPL. Is it possible to merge that code with Apache Agila ? No, unless it's relicensed. geir Andreas - Original Message - From: "Matthieu Riou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila Hello, I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More can be found about Twister here: http://www.smartcomps.org/twister I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more users and contributors to Agila. Regards, Matthieu Riou - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:48 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: I proposed to combine Twister into Agila to avoid overlapping. I thought the main goal of Agila was to develop a BPEL engine. Now if you think it's more appropriate, I wouldn't mind contributing Twister as itself. The goal is to do BPM, not specifically BPEL. BPEL support is certainly welcome, but should be a part of the overall project, not the dominant focus. There's more to BPM than BPEL :) A workflow engine and a web service orchestration engine have a bit of overlap but are usually used in different use cases, architecture and offer different features. So if Agila is meant as a workflow engine more than a web service orchestration solution, it may make sense to have two separate projects. What do everybody else think? Geir? I think that bringing the two concepts together - workflow and WS orchestration - would be a great goal :) geir On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:59:31 +0900, 홍의진 Uijin Hong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here is another '+1' for having a BPEL engine inside Apache domain. BTW, is it legitimately possible to combine Twister(which is not proposed and review by Apache PMC) into Agila? How about proposing contribution of Twsiter as itself? On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:24:23 -0500, Aleksander Slominski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: +1 for merging in BPEL support using Twister. Geir, I'd like to understand the BPEL plans for Agila a bit more. I'm a co-author of the BPEL spec and have done an impl of it in IBM (BPWS4J- which was released via alphaworks a while back). My intuition is that a solid impl of BPEL needs to work very closely with the Web service layer. AFAIK there hasn't been that kind of interaction between Agila and the Axis community yet. Dims and I can easily support/facilitate that! Matthieu- how does Twister do its SOAP, WSDL etc. stuff? Do you support non-SOAP bindings? (BPWS4J used WSIF, for example.) i think Mathieu is already aware of this but current WSIF needs upgrade ... http://smartcomps.kgbinternet.com/confluence/display/twister/2004/ 08/13/WSIF+and+adding+bindings+to+WSDL alek - Original Message - From: "Geir Magnusson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila This is great. We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila. I'll take a look. We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to make a workflow that mixes them. So it was planned that we'd get BPEL support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila workflow using a namespace or something. Of course, we can decide if we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling arguments for that kind of approach... geir On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: Hello, I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More can be found about Twister here: http://www.smartcomps.org/twister I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more users and contributors to Agila. Regards, Matthieu Riou -- --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Uijin Hong (홍의진) http://runeconsulting.com/heartbit/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 21, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: "Geir Magnusson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The goal is to do BPM, not specifically BPEL. BPEL support is certainly welcome, but should be a part of the overall project, not the dominant focus. There's more to BPM than BPEL :) Absolutely :). However, I think there's room in the WS project for an effort focused purely on implementing BPEL. BPEL is a key component of the WS-* stack and I for one would be happy to see a pure BPEL effort in Apache. I think that bringing the two concepts together - workflow and WS orchestration - would be a great goal :) So as a co-author of BPEL I have to say that that was indeed one of our objectives .. clearly we have failed at least by you :). Yah, well, I've been clear that I don't know much :) so I'm doing a bit more homework. I'll come back and apologize if I'm wrong, or else clearly explain what I think it's missing. [SNIP] However, I am willing to accept that BPEL is by no means sufficient for all BPM scenarios and that there is indeed room for other work and implementations. I'm not trying to force Agila to abandon its model here .. So maybe the idea of a separate effort for BPEL is not a bad idea. Dims, what do you think? Geir, is the plan for Agila to go for a new TLP after incubation or go to one of the existing projects? Right now, the Jakarta PMC has voted to accept us once we complete incubation. However, I think that this would be a stronger community and better software stack if we could bring all together into one project, and then apply for TLP. I'd really like to see Agila include BPEL, and make it such that a pure BPEL workflow is just an agila workflow w/o non-BPEL activities, if you get what I mean. Make it so that people who just want to write/use BPEL, people who want to mix, and people who don't want BPEL can all use the same thing. There's lots of commonality - with a full system, we'll all need the reporting, logging, administration, etc, and no need to duplicate... geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache Agila Project
On Oct 21, 2004, at 5:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I would like to receive information about how could I get involved to this project development. Could you please share with me the contacts of people involved directly with this project so I could talk and offer my help to them? The best place to discuss is right here on the incubator list. I'll be setting up the mail lists this weekend, and we can switch to there. What is your interest? You help is very welcome :) geir respectfully yours, Fernando Tavares __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Uijin Hong (홍의진) wrote: I hope to see Agila(or Apache-BPM-engine) could run both BPEL and WS-CDL. +1! -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release of Agila
On Oct 23, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Laurent Ghio wrote: We are thinking of using this new module Agila in our Software and were wondering when you would release it? Do you have a roadmap? How can we be involved in the development? 1) Release : we can't really do a release while in incubator, but we can certainly do milestone feature sets, which may be good enough for you 2) Roadmap : sort of, but that's going to change as the community grows around it. What do you need to see in it? 3) Involvement : just join in! geir Thanks in advance for your prompt reply Regards Laurent - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release of Agila
On Oct 25, 2004, at 8:12 PM, Cliff Schmidt wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr wrote on Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:49 AM: 1) Release : we can't really do a release while in incubator, but we can certainly do milestone feature sets, which may be good enough for you Geir, Just to make sure we're all on the same page here (and just for the enjoyment of bringing this topic up once again ;-)... There's nothing to stop an incubating project from doing a release as long as they follow the incubator policies*, which basically require 1. getting Incubator PMC approval (often done through a vote of the project's PPMC, which should include interested Incubator PMC members ) 2. labeling all downloads with the token 'incubating' somewhere in the filename. 3. including the incubator disclaimer text in the README document and also on Web site pages that link to the download. Agree? Yah - IMO, this really isn't a release, since releases are technically endorsed by the ASF. But as there is this process of getting code out, I'm more than happy to call it a 'release'. :) geir Cliff * http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/ Incubation_Policy.html#Releases%0A - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 26, 2004, at 3:27 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: Very practically, what is the conclusion of this discussion ? :) Not sure if one is required. I don't think solving the TLP problem is a good idea now because we're going to learn a lot more as time goes on. I'm optimistic that we'll go that way at the end, but lets decide that later. If we have enough size and strength to be a TLP, we do it. If not, we don't. Until then, lets try and build some really great software and a great community. I do think that working to have BPEL implementation at the ASF is a great idea, and while I'm 100% committed to seeing it a part of Agila, it doesn't have to only be in Agila. For example, we could have a BPEL engine as part of the project that can be used standalone or inside Agila. I've been staring at the BPEL spec, on and off, and I have to admit, I just don't grok it beyond the fundamental motivation to define processes. My major stumbling point is why this was done in XML. I'll start another thread so we can have a technical discussion. I'll do my best to get the mail lists setup so we can have the discussion there, rather than here on the general list. geir Matthieu. On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:59:17 -0500, Aleksander Slominski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: i agree that TLP is very important and very good for visibility that apache has now place for workflows but i look on it more like umbrella TLP with many subprojects? the reason for this is that i have a different opinion about BPEL. i think there is a clear need *now* for apache-licensed BPEL specific engine (there is more than one LGPLed) moreover building a complete BPEL engine is challenge enough - this observation is based on my own experience building BPEL-like engine but i think Mathieu and Sanjiva may agree based on their experience? it seems to me that building BPEL engine on top of another workflow execution model (mappings!) that has no web services support looks like a very large task so the question really is: what is expected timeline? should apache have BPEL engine implementation now or next year (or later...)? just my .02c thanks, alek Paul Russell wrote: Guys, On 22 Oct 2004, at 02:13, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: On Oct 21, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: "Geir Magnusson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I think that bringing the two concepts together - workflow and WS orchestration - would be a great goal :) So as a co-author of BPEL I have to say that that was indeed one of our objectives .. clearly we have failed at least by you :). Yah, well, I've been clear that I don't know much :) so I'm doing a bit more homework. I'll come back and apologize if I'm wrong, or else clearly explain what I think it's missing. I must confess, I've always had the impression that BPEL is /capable/ of participating in full BPM, but that it is only a /part/ of the solution. Gier: I'd be very interested to know what your perception of what's missing is -- it's funny, every time I talk to people about BPM/workflow, I get a different definition of what's in and what's out of scope ;) My perception is that BPEL is capable of handling everything except human interaction, but I treat (and so do IBM, as it happens) human interactions as 'just another ASYNC service call', so BPEL fits nicely into BPM provided you provide a staff resolution architecture (who can do this task?) and an interface to allow tasks to be allocated to people and processed etc. That said, while I believe that BPEL is capable of acting as the 'core' of a BPM project, I'm all for a layered architecture. I've not had a chance to look at Agila yet, but I'm assuming it's based on petri-nets or similar, so it should be perfectly possible to implement BPEL over the top of this (hopefully by merging in Twister, but replacing its execution core with Agila), and this gives us the opportunity to implement other BPM/orchestration languages in the future when this becomes desirable. So maybe the idea of a separate effort for BPEL is not a bad idea. Dims, what do you think? Personally, i would prefer the solutions to be merged -- my view is that they'll have such crossover functionally, it wouldn't make sense to treat them separately. Geir, is the plan for Agila to go for a new TLP after incubation or go to one of the existing projects? Right now, the Jakarta PMC has voted to accept us once we complete incubation. However, I think that this would be a stronger community and better software stack if we could bring all together into one project, and then apply for TLP. I'd really like to see Agila include BPEL, and make it such that a pure BPEL workflow is just an agila workflow w/o non-BPEL activities, if you get what I mean. Make it so that people who just want to write/use BPEL,
Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila
On Oct 29, 2004, at 4:43 PM, Paul Russell wrote: Guys, On 26 Oct 2004, at 09:02, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: On Oct 26, 2004, at 3:27 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote: Very practically, what is the conclusion of this discussion ? :) Not sure if one is required. I don't think solving the TLP problem is a good idea now because we're going to learn a lot more as time goes on. I'm optimistic that we'll go that way at the end, but lets decide that later. If we have enough size and strength to be a TLP, we do it. If not, we don't. Until then, lets try and build some really great software and a great community. I do think that working to have BPEL implementation at the ASF is a great idea, and while I'm 100% committed to seeing it a part of Agila, it doesn't have to only be in Agila. For example, we could have a BPEL engine as part of the project that can be used standalone or inside Agila. Indeed! I might have missed some mails on this (personal infrastructure problems -- was dropping lots of mails the beginning half of this week), so forgive me if I'm covering old ground, but I'd advocate a 'test and learn' approach here -- Why don't we incubate the two projects separately for a while. It'll become obvious if they should be merged or not, and I can't see any reason why merging two projects in the incubator would be a problem? Does that seem reasonable, or am I being dumb? I'd do it the other way :) We'd have better strength in numbers as a community, and we don't have to glom the codebases together, so neither identity is "lost" to the other. We can always split later geir Paul -- Paul Russell E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] iChat/AIM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PATCH][Agila] fixing insert/update of tasks
done On Nov 8, 2004, at 6:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've attached a patch which fixes up the Task insert so that when you assign a task to a user you can capture the TaskID for the task. It also avoids the hacky try/catch solution to try update first and only insert if that fails. James --- http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PATCH][Agila] new test case
done On Nov 8, 2004, at 6:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In an attempt to comprehend what the bindings are and how they work for static versus EL types (static appears to be read-only, rather than a static expression) I hacked up this extra test case which might be interesting for others... James --- http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PATCH][Agila] bug fix for instance persistence
done. added a test case to prove it as well On Nov 9, 2004, at 5:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently without this change, any attempt to change an instance actually changes the status of all instances! :) James --- http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduating log4cxx
+1 On Dec 22, 2004, at 5:22 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Hello all, The log4cxx project has been in incubation since April this year. Given the very healthy and consistent activity shown by the log4cxx community in accordance to Apache's collaborative and consensus-based development processes, the Logging Services PMC approved its graduation to full membership of the Apache Logging Services project. Curt Arnold currently leads the log4cxx effort. He took over from Michael Catanzariti, project founder, who is temporarily absent on a year long trip around the world. The Logging Services PMC found this smooth transition particularly reassuring. Moreover, log4cxx has decided to base its upcoming 0.9.8 "snapshot" on APR which constitutes yet another excellent sign of its integration within the ASF. Here is my emphatic +1 on graduating log4cxx. -- Ceki Gülcü, Chairman, Apache Logging Services - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AGILA
On Dec 27, 2004, at 5:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any word on when Agila will be released ?? It's the SVN (has been for a while), but I've been awfully tardy in setting up lists and site and such. The issues that were interfering are over (a product release and work-related), and I expect that in the next few days all will be up and running. geir Thanks, Rich Halsey - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please check/post your PROJECT RESOURCE REQUESTS
On Jan 4, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Folks, Project resources (mailing lists, etc.) are being created tonight. Please remind us ASAP of any pending requests. JDO and Agila mailing lists should be done. They are done. I just created : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, to subscribe, send an email to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] geir --- Noel -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please check/post your PROJECT RESOURCE REQUESTS
On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:07 PM, Craig Russell wrote: Hi Noel, Geir, So the JDO mailing lists are done and the JIRA has been set up. What's left for JDO I think are a Wiki and an svn repository. After the repository is done we will need to install a web page but since we're going to use maven to create the pages, there will be some other stuff that is needed to actually publish the JDO web site... Yes. I can do the svn repo. I'm sure someone will volunteer to do the wiki. Thanks, Craig On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:13 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Folks, Project resources (mailing lists, etc.) are being created tonight. Please remind us ASAP of any pending requests. JDO and Agila mailing lists should be done. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please check/post your PROJECT RESOURCE REQUESTS
On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:13 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:07 PM, Craig Russell wrote: Hi Noel, Geir, So the JDO mailing lists are done and the JIRA has been set up. What's left for JDO I think are a Wiki and an svn repository. After the repository is done we will need to install a web page but since we're going to use maven to create the pages, there will be some other stuff that is needed to actually publish the JDO web site... Yes. I can do the svn repo. I'm sure someone will volunteer to do the wiki. Wiki done : http://wiki.apache.org/jdo/ Thanks, Craig On Jan 4, 2005, at 5:13 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Folks, Project resources (mailing lists, etc.) are being created tonight. Please remind us ASAP of any pending requests. JDO and Agila mailing lists should be done. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Nutch
+1 from me On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:08 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Doug proposed this a week and change ago (bad timing to do such things around major holidays :-)). So far we have support from Dain, Nicola Ken, Doug, Eric Hatcher, Henning, Roy and myself. Roy, Nicola Ken, and myself provide the minimum 3 +1 from the PMC based upon the current roster. --- Noel (0) rationale Nutch is web search software. It builds on the Apache Lucene search library, adding a crawler, web database (including full link graph), plugins for various document formats, user interface, etc. It is currently used by sites such as http://search.creativecommons.org/, http://library.cornell.edu/, and the Internet Archive. Nutch is a two-year-old open source project, currently hosted at Sourceforge and backed by its own non-profit organization. The non-profit was founded in order to assign copyright, so that we could retain the right to change the license. We have now determined that the Apache license is the appropriate license for Nutch and no longer require the overhead of an independent non-profit organization. Nutch's board of directors and its developers have both been polled and support a move to the Apache foundation. We anticipate that Nutch will join the recently proposed search.apache.org top-level project, with Lucene and its various ports. (0.1) criteria Meritocracy: Nutch's developers are already comfortable operating as a meritocracy. Nutch's current developer policies are a bit more informal than that of Apache, but, then, there have never been any notable conflicts to resolve. Community: Nutch has an established and active developer community. Core Developers: Nutch has four active committers who are experienced open source developers. Alignment: Nutch currently users the following Apache projects: Ant, Lucene, Xerces, POI, commons. (0.2) warning signs Orphaned products: Nutch is not an orphan. It has the same corporate sponsors that it has always had. Inexperience with open source: Nutch's committers are experienced with open source. Homogenous developers: Nutch's committers do not all share an employer or nation. All decisions are made openly on public mailing lists. Reliance on salaried developers: Nutch has no salaried developers. No ties to other Apache products: Nutch has strong ties to Lucene. A fascination with the Apache brand: Nutch has a strong brand already. While the Apache brand will enhance that, that is not a primary motivation for Nutch to join Apache. (1) scope of the subprojects All code is currently licensed under a variant of the Apache License 1.0. The developers have approved a move to the Apache 2.0 license and a re-assignment of copyright to the Apache Foundation. We have signed Contributor License Agreements on file for all developers. (3) identify the ASF resources to be created (3.1) mailing list(s) nutch-dev nutch-commits nutch-user nutch-agent (3.2) Subversion or CVS repositories https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/nutch (3.3) Jira Nutch (NUTCH) (4) identify the initial set of committers Doug Cutting (Lucene committer) Michael Cafarella (current Nutch committer at Sourceforge) Andrzej Bialecki (current Nutch committer at Sourceforge) John Xing (current Nutch committer at Sourceforge) Sami Siren (current Nutch committer at Sourceforge) (5) identify apache sponsoring individual Erik Hatcher, Champion and Mentor Doug Cutting, Mentor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JDO : stop trying to subscribe to PPMC :)
All, I made the mistake of announcing that I created the PPMC lists for JDO and Agila. These are private lists for the use of the embryonic PMC in the case of a 'big' project, and probably pointless in the case of a small one. They are used mainly for private conversation about 'people issues', like voting on new committers. So please don't feel left out when your subscription to the jdo-ppmc is rejected. In the case of JDO, I'll leave it up to the group and the DB PMC to decide if they want to keep it or ignore it. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MyFaces] howto pass TCK for JSF (JSR #127)?
On Jan 15, 2005, at 4:54 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Matthias, first step, join the jcp AT apache.org mailing list and ask for help :) That probably won't work if matthias isn't a member, as we restrict that to members only. However, if you want the TCK, say "yes" and then consider it in progress. :) geir -- dims On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:28:18 +0100, Matthias Wessendorf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jeremy, Noel, thanks! I thought so, but was not sure Since he's involved in Geronimo and the new Apache JDO. -Matthias -Original Message- From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:51 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: [MyFaces] howto pass TCK for JSF (JSR #127)? Matthias Wessendorf wrote: we would like to get some infos on passing TCK for beeing a certified JavaServer Faces implementation. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Geir is our JCP representative, and should be viewed as the point person to whom to address such issues. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE][release] [ApacheDS] 0.8
On Jan 14, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote: I have posted an updated release candidate for the Apache Directory Server here: http://www.apache.org/~akarasulu/dist. The binary distribution includes the full web site, including combined as well as package-specific javadoc. The source distribution does not include javadoc, but does include ant and maven builds (including javadoc targets). FYI, all IP issues and TM issues have been resolved and the status page here has been updated to reflect these changes: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/directory.html --- [ ] +1 I support this release and am willing to help [X] +0 I support this release but am unable to help [ ] -0 I do not support this release [ ] -1 I do not support this release, and here are my reasons --- Here is my own +1. Alex - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Agila
On Jan 13, 2005, at 9:59 PM, David Crossley wrote: Someone should update the Agila project website :-) It still refers people to this general@ mailing list. http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/ http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila.html Yes, will do. --David Christopher Lim wrote: Hi Kumaran, First step is to subscribe on the following mailing lists: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] We'll discuss Agila there. Source is available at: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila/trunk/ Cheers! -- Chris On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:36:46 -0700, kumx thum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi I am new to incubator mailing list. I am interested in participating in agila project. If anyone guide to me how to work with this community, it would be greatful. Thanks, Kumaran. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Agila
yes. I did turn on archiving, but not setup eyebrowse yet. On Jan 14, 2005, at 2:08 AM, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: And perhaps add an archive for the mails :) Carsten David Crossley wrote: Someone should update the Agila project website :-) It still refers people to this general@ mailing list. http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/ http://incubator.apache.org/projects/agila.html --David Christopher Lim wrote: Hi Kumaran, First step is to subscribe on the following mailing lists: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] We'll discuss Agila there. Source is available at: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila/trunk/ Cheers! -- Chris On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:36:46 -0700, kumx thum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi I am new to incubator mailing list. I am interested in participating in agila project. If anyone guide to me how to work with this community, it would be greatful. Thanks, Kumaran. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where, oh where has my Agila gone ? Where, oh where ...
On Jan 26, 2005, at 6:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sure would like to see even a hint of what it is - I have been tracking it since Sept 2004 and have not seen even a trace !! DARN ! The code is in svn (incubator/agila), and there are two mail lists. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been a tad tardy in getting the site updated. My apologies. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Directory exiting Incubator
Congrats guys! On Feb 7, 2005, at 7:00 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote: [X] Graduate the Directory Project [ ] Abstain [ ] Keep incubating the Directory Project -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Lucene4c
On Feb 14, 2005, at 10:23 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: All donated code should really go through the Incubator, even if only to do the required IP checklist. Right. By my question is why doesn't this go through the Lucene project? The Lucene PMC could bring the codebase into their project and register the IP stuff here w/ the incubator. I hope I'm just misunderstanding, but this appears to be a proposal to create a new project at the ASF called "Lucene4c" geir On Feb 14, 2005, at 8:59 AM, Erik Hatcher wrote: I presume this codebase is substantial enough that it requires incubation? Or because it was a single developer, could he contribute it directly to the Lucene project and bypass incubation? Erik On Feb 14, 2005, at 8:35 AM, Garrett Rooney wrote: I'd like to propose the Lucene4c project for incubation. Lucene4c is a port of the Lucene search engine from Java to C, using the Apache Portable Runtime library for portability. The project is far from complete, and code to date is primarily concerned with reading an existing Lucene index, which must be created with another Lucene implementation (currently only Java Lucene has been tested). The plan is to complete support for the rest of the index format and then move on to implementing search functionality (beyond the current proof of concept code anyway). Once we've reached that point work will begin on actual indexing functionality so that Lucene4c can stand alone, without the use of another Lucene implementation for bootstrapping. The project would be part of the new Lucene top leve project, and Erik Hatcher has offerred to serve as a sponsor. While I have yet to expand the community of developers further than myself, I am anxious to do so, and I expect to be able to draw both from people as of yet unassociated with Lucene who have expressed interest in such a project and from existing Lucene developers who have expressed interest in establishing cross-language compatibility tests for the various Lucene ports. Lucene4c already has ties to existing ASF projects, particularly Lucene itself and APR. Bringing it into the ASF would only strengthen those ties. More details, including where to get the current release or development versions of the code can be found at the Lucene4c web site at http://electricjellyfish.net/garrett/lucene4c/ -garrett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ "There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JDO Subversion Repository
On Feb 23, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Brian McCallister wrote: Sorry to bug folks about this again, but could anyone create a subversion repository for the JDO project in incubation? Done. I've created the jdo repo : svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jdo and committers are myself, brian and dain. I'm doing the admin work for those that we have CLAs for, and will pester those others whom we don't. geir Thanks! -Brian -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is a healthy community? WAS: log4net 1.2.9 beta release
On Mar 13, 2005, at 2:26 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Data Point #3: Need clear guidlines "3 people who can +1 a release, from 3 different companies"? That issue was addressed earlier with respect to XMLBeans. I don't know that there really is a definitive answer other than that we want to make sure that there is sufficient oversight and independence from any given employer. The trouble I have here is that I like to believe that company affiliation is left at the door when it comes to governance, and is irrelevant when it comes to technology in that of your employer wants you to implement the Frooble Device driver, you implement it, as long as there aren't valid technical reasons not to. IOW, as long as employment considerations don't enter into decisions about governance, it's fine. If it does happen, the board can step in, or someone can fork it. I think this is even less of an issue when it becomes a part of a larger, healthy PMC. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
