[DNG] Gnome?
Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200, Narcis wrote in message : > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. ..the only versions I can recommend, are the gnome-1.x-ish versions that came with S.u.S.E.-5.2. It was wonderful back then 19 years ago, and _might_ pass you desktop users snifftest even now. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 21:08:36 -0400, zap wrote in message : > On 09/17/2017 04:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 05:27:19 +0100 > > KatolaZ wrote: > > > >> > >> In many typical Devuan use cases (mission-critical services, > >> for instance), you absolutely don't want the latest "upgrade" of a > >> package, because you can't afford any random upgrade to break your > >> system, even temporarily. > > > > Yes. Why is that so hard to understand? > > > > There are some cases when it's easiest and perhaps best to trust > > that the latest update will always work. But in other situations, > > you prioritize stability, and that's the space Devuan fills. > > I haven't replied for a while. but yeah your probably right. Devuan > is better as is. I would definitely though that being said, hope to > make a not pure rolling release, but one with a stability in the > middle of stable and testing, and then one for unstable and > experimental... ..one early blunder we did, was fork off Debian Jessie rather than Debian Wheezy, a lot of good people we could have used here, got stuck there because they are conservative and slow because they get paid to prioritize stability. ..we could help bridge that "Debian-Wheezy-to-Devuan-Jessie" gap with a _minimal_ "Devuan Wheezy 0.x" fork, if that isn't too much water under the bridge now... -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] unmet package dependencies
On 09/17/2017 02:45 PM, Lars Noodén wrote: > When I try to install the package scdaemon, it wants a different version > of gnupg-agent than what is available in the repository. > So how should I handle the following error? > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: >scdaemon : Depends: gnupg-agent (= 2.1.18-6) > but 2.1.18-8 is to be installed > > This is on Ascii for amd64: > > $ lsb_release -rd; uname -sr; > Description:Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) > Release:2.0 > Linux 4.9.0-3-amd64 > > The system is up to date as far as APT is concerned. > > /Lars > There also this, which is similar and has been around for a while: # apt-get install rsyslog [snip] The following packages have unmet dependencies: rsyslog : Depends: liblognorm2 (>= 1.1.2) but it is not installable E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. Noted in : http://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=96 What kind of work-arounds are possible for either case? /Lars ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:29:35AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: [cut] > > > > I haven't replied for a while. but yeah your probably right. Devuan > > is better as is. I would definitely though that being said, hope to > > make a not pure rolling release, but one with a stability in the > > middle of stable and testing, and then one for unstable and > > experimental... > > ..one early blunder we did, was fork off Debian Jessie rather than > Debian Wheezy, a lot of good people we could have used here, got > stuck there because they are conservative and slow because they > get paid to prioritize stability. > > ..we could help bridge that "Debian-Wheezy-to-Devuan-Jessie" gap > with a _minimal_ "Devuan Wheezy 0.x" fork, if that isn't too much > water under the bridge now... Dear Adrnt, there is no gap at all between Debian Wheezy and Devuan Jessie. You can safely upgrade form Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie, as explained also in the Jessie Release notes. This is probably the most relevant link: https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Upgrade-to-Devuan HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. For a recent version of Gnome: 1- Install systemd .. Cheers, Ron. -- Whenever one person is found adequate to the discharge of a duty by close application thereto, it is worse executed by two persons and scarcely done at all if three or more are employed therein. -- George Washington -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
On Mon, 2017-09-18 at 09:02 +0200, Narcis Garcia wrote: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? > > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. On IRC September 6 somebody (shwsh) reported gnome running on Devuan. He packaged elogind gnome-settings-deamon. For more info see https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1581 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:21:18 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918092118.gh23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:29:35AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > > > I haven't replied for a while. but yeah your probably right. > > > Devuan is better as is. I would definitely though that being > > > said, hope to make a not pure rolling release, but one with a > > > stability in the middle of stable and testing, and then one for > > > unstable and experimental... > > > > ..one early blunder we did, was fork off Debian Jessie rather than > > Debian Wheezy, a lot of good people we could have used here, got > > stuck there because they are conservative and slow because they > > get paid to prioritize stability. > > > > ..we could help bridge that "Debian-Wheezy-to-Devuan-Jessie" gap > > with a _minimal_ "Devuan Wheezy 0.x" fork, if that isn't too much > > water under the bridge now... > > > Dear Adrnt, > > there is no gap at all between Debian Wheezy and Devuan Jessie. You > can safely upgrade form Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie, as explained > also in the Jessie Release notes. This is probably the most relevant > link: > > > https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Upgrade-to-Devuan > > HND > > KatolaZ > ..excellent, we're getting there. :o) Now, can we get the mirror upgrade-to-Devuan as good? I have a partial Debian mirror we can use as a guinea pig. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 01:40:23PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: [cut] > > ..excellent, we're getting there. :o) Now, can we get the > mirror upgrade-to-Devuan as good? > I have a partial Debian mirror we can use as a guinea pig. > uh? What are you talking about, exactly? I am not sure I am following. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] What if...
...I upgrade my Debian Wheezy LTS to Devuan Jessie ? What happens then to those packages I need/use which are not in the Devuan repositories ? Will the older versions still run ? Or will the upgrade remove them ? Or, if they have no systemd dependencies, can I install the Debian Jessie versions ? Worried, on the banks of the Paraguay River -- Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. -- Niels Bohr -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Monday 18 September 2017 at 12:46:34, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > ...I upgrade my Debian Wheezy LTS to Devuan Jessie ? It works for me... > What happens then to those packages I need/use which are not in the Devuan > repositories ? They will not get upgraded. > Will the older versions still run ? Or will the upgrade remove them ? As far as I know, a dist-upgrade *never* removes packages. Especially not packages it doesn't even know about (eg: if they're not part of Devuan Jessie). > Or, if they have no systemd dependencies, can I install the Debian Jessie > versions ? What packages have you found in Debian Jessie which have no systemd dependencies and are not in Devuan Jessie? > Worried, on the banks of the Paraguay River Take a backup and try it :) Create a copy in a VM and try it :) Install a minimal Debian Wheezy, add some of your possibly problematic packages, and try the upgrade :) Antony. -- This email was created using 100% recycled electrons. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:46:34AM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > ...I upgrade my Debian Wheezy LTS to Devuan Jessie ? > ...you get a Devuan Jessie? :D > What happens then to those packages I need/use which are not in the Devuan > repositories ? Everything that is is Debian Jessie in in Devuan Jessie. The opposite is not true, though. > > Will the older versions still run ? Or will the upgrade remove them ? > An "apt-get upgrade" will never remove packages, only replace them with newer versions. An "apt-get dist-upgrade" might remove some packages and replace them with something that does the same job, but is for instance in another package/comboination of packages. You can always check what is going to be installed/upgraded before proceeding. > Or, if they have no systemd dependencies, can I install the Debian Jessie > versions ? > 95% of the packages in Devuan Jessie are the same as in Debian Jessie. So in most cases you will be using packages from Debian Jessie, even if you get those throgh an automatic redirect from the Devuan repo. > Worried, on the banks of the Paraguay River There is no need to be worried. Devuan Jessie is running on thousands of servers out there, as is Devuan ASCII doing. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 12:43:09 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918114309.gi23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 01:40:23PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > ..excellent, we're getting there. :o) Now, can we get the > > mirror upgrade-to-Devuan as good? > > I have a partial Debian mirror we can use as a guinea pig. > > > > uh? What are you talking about, exactly? I am not sure I am > following. ..I have a partial Debian mirror (amd64, i386, i386-hurd, source) which didn't become ftp2.no.debian.org because of my bandwidth, I used it as a lan mirror because my bandwidth too often was 0. ..my first few messages here: https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7 and https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151217.015613.57a0b639.en.html ..now, if we want to be the go-to distro Debian people come to once they find out something half as nefarious as what brought us here, we will need more mirrors, and one good way is come up with a good way to convert a Debian mirror to a Devuan mirror, since we share 95 or 99% or whatever percentage it is now of the packages. ..now these conversion recipes will need to be tested, and such testing will be quicker for me than wiping my Debian mirror and set up a new fresh Devuan mirror, again because of my sucking bandwidth. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 02:52:40PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: [cut] > > ..now these conversion recipes will need to be tested, and such > testing will be quicker for me than wiping my Debian mirror and > set up a new fresh Devuan mirror, again because of my sucking > bandwidth. > Now I understand :) We have been working for a while at the mirror infrastructure, and should be able to start external testing very soon. There is no need at all to convert an existing Debian repo to be used as a back-end of a Devuan repo. Only a few simple http rewrites. StayTuned KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
Finally taking the plunge, and upgrading following Dev1fanboy's howto on https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/Upgrade-to-Devuan Cheers, Ron. -- My karma just ran over your dogma. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 12:59:20 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918115920.gj23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 07:46:34AM -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > > ...I upgrade my Debian Wheezy LTS to Devuan Jessie ? > > > > ...you get a Devuan Jessie? :D > > > What happens then to those packages I need/use which are not in the > > Devuan repositories ? > > Everything that is is Debian Jessie in in Devuan Jessie. The opposite > is not true, though. > > > > > Will the older versions still run ? Or will the upgrade remove > > them ? > > > > An "apt-get upgrade" will never remove packages, only replace them > with newer versions. > > An "apt-get dist-upgrade" might remove some packages and replace them > with something that does the same job, but is for instance in another > package/comboination of packages. ..if you still worry about the ways "apt-get dist-upgrade" want to do things, try e.g. "aptitude safe-upgrade", "Perform a safe upgrade", or "aptitude full-upgrade" "Perform an upgrade, possibly installing and removing packages", these will often solve these things at least slightly differently to apt-get. And there are many other ways to do this, me, I spent my last coupla Debian years in Debian's dpkg version of the rpm dependency hell I endured in my Red Hat 5.2-to-7.3 years. ;o) > You can always check what is going to be installed/upgraded before > proceeding. > > > Or, if they have no systemd dependencies, can I install the Debian > > Jessie versions ? > > > > 95% of the packages in Devuan Jessie are the same as in Debian > Jessie. So in most cases you will be using packages from Debian > Jessie, even if you get those throgh an automatic redirect from the > Devuan repo. > > > Worried, on the banks of the Paraguay River > > There is no need to be worried. Devuan Jessie is running on thousands > of servers out there, as is Devuan ASCII doing. ..for _some_ people, this worry is not just about "whether Devuan Jessie works", this is also about whether they have a job and can pay for their childrens food and home the next few months. Which is exactly why they stuck their neck out and recommended "rock solid" Debian Wheezy _LTS_, years ago when it was rock solid. ..and it's why I voiced my idea of a "Devuan Wheezy LTS 0.x" style fork. We can expect these people to volonteer work for us like what they have for debian.org, once they see us as a viable way forward for themseves, careerwise and financially. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 12:59:20 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message > > > > There is no need to be worried. Devuan Jessie is running on thousands > > of servers out there, as is Devuan ASCII doing. > > ..for _some_ people, this worry is not just about "whether Devuan > Jessie works", this is also about whether they have a job and can > pay for their childrens food and home the next few months. > Which is exactly why they stuck their neck out and recommended > "rock solid" Debian Wheezy _LTS_, years ago when it was rock solid. > > ..and it's why I voiced my idea of a "Devuan Wheezy LTS 0.x" style fork. > We can expect these people to volonteer work for us like what they > have for debian.org, once they see us as a viable way forward for > themseves, careerwise and financially. We have Devuan Jessie LTS. There's a perfectly good migration process from Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie. I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support the outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already offering an escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to stick with Wheezy because they don't want systemd. I'd say there are two categories of people still (deliberately) running Wheezy: 1. Those who would upgrade to Jessie except for systemd. 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no solution for group 2 because they're happy with what they've already got. Antony. -- I wasn't sure about having a beard at first, but then it grew on me. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:56:53 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918125653.gk23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 02:52:40PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > ..now these conversion recipes will need to be tested, and such > > testing will be quicker for me than wiping my Debian mirror and > > set up a new fresh Devuan mirror, again because of my sucking > > bandwidth. > > > > Now I understand :) We have been working for a while at the mirror > infrastructure, and should be able to start external testing very > soon. There is no need at all to convert an existing Debian repo to be > used as a back-end of a Devuan repo. Only a few simple http rewrites. ..aye, that's my current understanding. :o) ..the Debian mirror sizes nowadays are: https://www.debian.org/mirror/size ..what size is http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ now? > StayTuned ..willco. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:37:31, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:56:53 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message > > > There is no need at all to convert an existing Debian repo to be > > used as a back-end of a Devuan repo. Only a few simple http rewrites. > > ..aye, that's my current understanding. :o) > > ..the Debian mirror sizes nowadays are: > https://www.debian.org/mirror/size > > ..what size is http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ now? Well, given that: On Monday 18 September 2017 at 12:59:20, KatolaZ wrote: > 95% of the packages in Devuan Jessie are the same as in Debian > Jessie. So in most cases you will be using packages from Debian > Jessie, even if you get those through an automatic redirect from the > Devuan repo. a first approximation would be that the Devuan repository is 5% of the size of the Debian ones. Antony. -- If you can smile when all about you things are going wrong, you must have someone in mind to take the blame. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 03:37:31PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: [cut] > > > > Now I understand :) We have been working for a while at the mirror > > infrastructure, and should be able to start external testing very > > soon. There is no need at all to convert an existing Debian repo to be > > used as a back-end of a Devuan repo. Only a few simple http rewrites. > > ..aye, that's my current understanding. :o) > > ..the Debian mirror sizes nowadays are: > https://www.debian.org/mirror/size > > ..what size is http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ now? > > About 2GB, which will grow to about 4GB with Contents-*.gz. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
Le 18/09/2017 à 15:35, Antony Stone a écrit : I'd say there are two categories of people still (deliberately) running Wheezy: 1. Those who would upgrade to Jessie except for systemd. 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. I'm keeping Debian Wheezy on one machine for just one thing: apt-file. Not that I use it often, but, sometimes it's very usefull. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 03:52:44PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 18/09/2017 à 15:35, Antony Stone a écrit : > >I'd say there are two categories of people still (deliberately) running > >Wheezy: > > > >1. Those who would upgrade to Jessie except for systemd. > > > >2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. > > I'm keeping Debian Wheezy on one machine for just one thing: apt-file. > Not that I use it often, but, sometimes it's very usefull. > > Didier > Dear Didier, this issue was solved by parazyd in amprolla3, and will become effective on all devuan mirrors soon :) HND Enzo -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Another problem with systemd and I will switch to devuan
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:41:33 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918134133.gm23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 03:37:31PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > > > Now I understand :) We have been working for a while at the mirror > > > infrastructure, and should be able to start external testing very > > > soon. There is no need at all to convert an existing Debian repo > > > to be used as a back-end of a Devuan repo. Only a few simple http > > > rewrites. > > > > ..aye, that's my current understanding. :o) > > > > ..the Debian mirror sizes nowadays are: > > https://www.debian.org/mirror/size > > > > ..what size is http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ now? > > > > > > About 2GB, which will grow to about 4GB with Contents-*.gz. ..these are with all Devuan archs and source? ..4GB, that's like 0.75% of my mirror size. ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
Le 18/09/2017 à 16:00, KatolaZ a écrit : Dear Didier, this issue was solved by parazyd in amprolla3, and will become effective on all devuan mirrors soon:) HND Enzo Dear Enzo, I've read this already; I know it's comming and I'm waiting impatiently for the final announcement, because Wheezy now sucks: I was quasi-forced to upgrade Icedove to Thunderbird and Iceweasel to Firefox-ESR. They're both slower and randomly crash; and clicking on a link in a mail doesn't launch the browser - I need now to copy the address and paste it in the browser. As soon as Amprolla3 is in production, I'll jump :-) Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 15:00:07 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message <20170918140007.gn23...@katolaz.homeunix.net>: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 03:52:44PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 18/09/2017 à 15:35, Antony Stone a écrit : > > >I'd say there are two categories of people still (deliberately) > > >running Wheezy: > > > > > >1. Those who would upgrade to Jessie except for systemd. > > > > > >2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. > > > > I'm keeping Debian Wheezy on one machine for just one thing: > > apt-file. Not that I use it often, but, sometimes it's very usefull. > > > > Didier > > > > Dear Didier, > > this issue was solved by parazyd in amprolla3, and will become > effective on all devuan mirrors soon :) ..keep your Wheezy backups around, we might need them as guineapigs to fix some new problem or at least refute some new bat shit crazy conspiracy theory. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote in message <201709181435.24801.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 12:59:20 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message > > > > > > There is no need to be worried. Devuan Jessie is running on > > > thousands of servers out there, as is Devuan ASCII doing. > > > > ..for _some_ people, this worry is not just about "whether Devuan > > Jessie works", this is also about whether they have a job and can > > pay for their childrens food and home the next few months. > > Which is exactly why they stuck their neck out and recommended > > "rock solid" Debian Wheezy _LTS_, years ago when it was rock solid. > > > > ..and it's why I voiced my idea of a "Devuan Wheezy LTS 0.x" style > > fork. We can expect these people to volonteer work for us like what > > they have for debian.org, once they see us as a viable way forward > > for themseves, careerwise and financially. > > We have Devuan Jessie LTS. > > There's a perfectly good migration process from Debian Wheezy to > Devuan Jessie. ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them. And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit. > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support the > outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already offering an > escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to stick with Wheezy > because they don't want systemd. ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o) I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan Jessie etc. > I'd say there are two categories of people still (deliberately) > running Wheezy: > > 1. Those who would upgrade to Jessie except for systemd. ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had popularity-contest 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more have even older versions, and according to our own http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to http://popcon.debian.org/ we still don't match the 2693 who might still have 1.46 (lenny) installed. ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o) > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. > > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no solution > for group 2 because they're happy with what they've already got. ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind up helping out. Just give it time. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Monday 18 September 2017 at 15:54:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote: > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them. > And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit. So, we focus on getting people to use Devuan Jessie - not Wheezy. > > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support the > > outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already offering an > > escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to stick with Wheezy > > because they don't want systemd. > > ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o) > I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good > manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan > Jessie etc. I don't see the purpose of having a Devuan Wheezy. After all, Debian Wheezy is systemd-free by default (yes, you can install it yourself if you want to, but people who've done that aren't looking for Devuan), so what's the benefit in us advertising a "systemd-free Wheezy" to the world? Anyone doing a review of it would say "this is Debian with some optional packages taken out". > ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had popularity-contest > 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more have even older versions, > and according to our own http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to > http://popcon.debian.org/ we still don't match the 2693 who might > still have 1.46 (lenny) installed. > > ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o) What do you expect that "manpower" to do? Not everyone running Debian as a sysadmin (or end user) is going to contribute to the Devuan project. > > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. > > > > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no solution > > for group 2 because they're happy with what they've already got. > > ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own > merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind > up helping out. Just give it time. ;o) 1. Anyone who's running Debian Squeeze or earlier isn't failing to upgrade because of systemd, therefore Devuan isn't an argument in their case. 2. Anyone running Debian Wheezy is either systemd-free, in which case Devuan Wheezy would be identical, or else they've installed systemd themselves, which presumably means they want to run it, and therefore aren't interested in Devuan. 3. Anyone running Debian Wheezy who wants to upgrade to Jessie can upgrade to Devuan Jessie to avoid systemd. If there are problems with that upgrade process, *that*'s what we need help with debugging and fixing. 4. Anyone running Debian Jessie who wants to get away from systemd can also upgrade to Devuan Jessie. Again, if there are problems with that upgrade, that's where we need help, not with taking Debian Wheezy, stripping out the optional systemd bits, and relabelling it as Devuan. Antony. -- She did not swoon, but she did get a look on her face that said 'This conversation is over', which Jack took as a sign he was going in the right direction. - Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Upgrade to Devuan done.
Two niggles: Is there a way to get rid of, or disable, keyring ? could not find the package that provides it. When I launch EasyABC, which worked under Wheezy this morning, I now get: ron@ron:~/Desktop $ easyabc Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/easyabc/easy_abc.py", line 203, in import wx.media ImportError: No module named media Any idea where to dig ? Cheers, Ron. -- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan ceres has a bug for icedove/thunderbird
thunderbird can be used only if you do it through icedove for some reason... otherwise it crashes. and as for enigmail, it cannot find gnupg's location which can be fixed by: going to enigmail preferences and using override with then /usr/bin/gpg2 just something I felt I should mention. :) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:02:37 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > Is there some published procedure to install Gnome in Devuan 8/9 ? Gnome is so tightly would with systemd that it can't be run on Devuan with reasonable effort. > I need this to migrate desktop users from Debian & Ubuntu. Why in the world would you need Gnome? Copy their home directory, add them to /etc/group and /etc/passwd as on the old machine, assign them temporary passwords which you give them, and have them change their passwords. Set them all up with Xfce, and if they want to migrate to LXDE or Openbox or ctwm let them do it themselves. PS: Do them a favor and incorporate dmenu using an easy hotkey. They'll be so thrilled with the quick and easy user interface that they'll never miss Gnome. SteveT Steve Litt September 2017 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting Brand new, second edition http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan ceres has a bug for icedove/thunderbird
On 2017-09-18 12:41, zap wrote: thunderbird can be used only if you do it through icedove for some reason... otherwise it crashes. and as for enigmail, it cannot find gnupg's location which can be fixed by: going to enigmail preferences and using override with then /usr/bin/gpg2 just something I felt I should mention. :) ___ Known issue: https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=icedove golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Upgrade to Devuan done.
On 18-09-17 19:05, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: import wx.media Is part of wxPython package afaik. Grtz. Nick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Upgrade to Devuan done.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:07:48 +0200 info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > > import wx.media > > Is part of wxPython package afaik. Found it, the upgrade to Devuan had missed python-wxgtk-media3.0 Cheers, Ron. -- If you want creative workers, give them enough time to play. -- John Cleese -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:03:47 +0100, Antony wrote in message <201709181703.47988.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 15:54:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote: > > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them. > > And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit. > > So, we focus on getting people to use Devuan Jessie - not Wheezy. ..correct, we disagree on whether or not a minimal Devuan Wheezy will be an useful tool. > > > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support > > > the outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already > > > offering an escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to stick > > > with Wheezy because they don't want systemd. > > > > ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o) > > I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good > > manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan > > Jessie etc. > > I don't see the purpose of having a Devuan Wheezy. ..then we disagree, I only see it as an useful stepping stone tool to help (convince) people upgrade to Devuan Jessie etc. > After all, Debian Wheezy is systemd-free by default (yes, you can > install it yourself if you want to, but people who've done that > aren't looking for Devuan), so what's the benefit in us advertising a > "systemd-free Wheezy" to the world? ..see above. > Anyone doing a review of it would say "this is Debian with some > optional packages taken out". ..see above. > > ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had > > popularity-contest 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more have > > even older versions, and according to our own > > http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to http://popcon.debian.org/ we still > > don't match the 2693 who might still have 1.46 (lenny) installed. > > > > ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o) > > What do you expect that "manpower" to do? ..some of them will help build Devuan in the same way they have helped build Debian. How many, and who, depends on how we welcome them. > Not everyone running Debian as a sysadmin (or end user) is going to > contribute to the Devuan project. ..correct. > > > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working. > > > > > > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no > > > solution for group 2 because they're happy with what they've > > > already got. > > > > ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own > > merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind > > up helping out. Just give it time. ;o) > > 1. Anyone who's running Debian Squeeze or earlier isn't failing to > upgrade because of systemd, therefore Devuan isn't an argument in > their case. ..correct, they only need upgrades if they somehow are exposed to internet-like threats thru usb-sticks, old floppies, lan wiring, dying BIOS chips (BTDT), UEFI firmware with timeouts etc. > 2. Anyone running Debian Wheezy is either systemd-free, in which case > Devuan Wheezy would be identical, or else they've installed systemd > themselves, which presumably means they want to run it, and therefore > aren't interested in Devuan. ..you forget the kinda people who got stuck with systemd because they trusted Debian to be the good guys. BTDT. ..the only real difference between your vision of Debian Wheezy and Devuan Wheezy is the upgrade path away from systemd. ..the difference between your vision of Devuan Wheezy and mine, is I only want it to contain the bare minimum people might need to _safely_ move on upgrading to Devuan Jessie. ..that bit "_safely_" is what most people hesitating, may wanna see a track record on. And, either way, good or bad, we will build it. > 3. Anyone running Debian Wheezy who wants to upgrade to Jessie can > upgrade to Devuan Jessie to avoid systemd. If there are problems > with that upgrade process, *that*'s what we need help with debugging > and fixing. ..that too, yes. > 4. Anyone running Debian Jessie who wants to get away from systemd > can also upgrade to Devuan Jessie. Again, if there are problems with > that upgrade, that's where we need help, not with taking Debian > Wheezy, stripping out the optional systemd bits, and relabelling it > as Devuan. ..that's why I said "_minimal_", yank out "everything", keep only what people may need to survive upgrading from Debian Wheezy-and-earlier, to Devuan Jessie. ..the smaller it is, the easier it will be to support and maintain. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 22:09:08 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:03:47 +0100, Antony wrote in message > <201709181703.47988.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 15:54:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote: > > > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them. > > > And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit. > > > > So, we focus on getting people to use Devuan Jessie - not Wheezy. > > ..correct, we disagree on whether or not a minimal Devuan Wheezy > will be an useful tool. > > > > > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support > > > > the outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already > > > > offering an escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to > > > > stick with Wheezy because they don't want systemd. > > > > > > ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o) > > > I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good > > > manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan > > > Jessie etc. > > > > I don't see the purpose of having a Devuan Wheezy. > > ..then we disagree, I only see it as an useful stepping stone > tool to help (convince) people upgrade to Devuan Jessie etc. > > > After all, Debian Wheezy is systemd-free by default (yes, you can > > install it yourself if you want to, but people who've done that > > aren't looking for Devuan), so what's the benefit in us advertising > > a "systemd-free Wheezy" to the world? > > ..see above. > > > Anyone doing a review of it would say "this is Debian with some > > optional packages taken out". > > ..see above. > > > > ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had > > > popularity-contest 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more have > > > even older versions, and according to our own > > > http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to http://popcon.debian.org/ we > > > still don't match the 2693 who might still have 1.46 (lenny) > > > installed. > > > > > > ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o) > > > > What do you expect that "manpower" to do? > > ..some of them will help build Devuan in the same way they > have helped build Debian. > How many, and who, depends on how we welcome them. > > > Not everyone running Debian as a sysadmin (or end user) is going to > > contribute to the Devuan project. > > ..correct. > > > > > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still > > > > working. > > > > > > > > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no > > > > solution for group 2 because they're happy with what they've > > > > already got. > > > > > > ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own > > > merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind > > > up helping out. Just give it time. ;o) > > > > 1. Anyone who's running Debian Squeeze or earlier isn't failing to > > upgrade because of systemd, therefore Devuan isn't an argument in > > their case. > > ..correct, they only need upgrades if they somehow are exposed to > internet-like threats thru usb-sticks, old floppies, lan wiring, > dying BIOS chips (BTDT), UEFI firmware with timeouts etc. > > > 2. Anyone running Debian Wheezy is either systemd-free, in which > > case Devuan Wheezy would be identical, or else they've installed > > systemd themselves, which presumably means they want to run it, and > > therefore aren't interested in Devuan. > > ..you forget the kinda people who got stuck with systemd because they > trusted Debian to be the good guys. BTDT. > > ..the only real difference between your vision of Debian Wheezy > and Devuan Wheezy is the upgrade path away from systemd. > > ..the difference between your vision of Devuan Wheezy and mine, > is I only want it to contain the bare minimum people might need > to _safely_ move on upgrading to Devuan Jessie. > > ..that bit "_safely_" is what most people hesitating, may wanna > see a track record on. And, either way, good or bad, we will > build it. > > > 3. Anyone running Debian Wheezy who wants to upgrade to Jessie can > > upgrade to Devuan Jessie to avoid systemd. If there are problems > > with that upgrade process, *that*'s what we need help with debugging > > and fixing. > > ..that too, yes. > > > 4. Anyone running Debian Jessie who wants to get away from systemd > > can also upgrade to Devuan Jessie. Again, if there are problems > > with that upgrade, that's where we need help, not with taking Debian > > Wheezy, stripping out the optional systemd bits, and relabelling it > > as Devuan. > > ..that's why I said "_minimal_", yank out "everything", > keep only what people may need to survive upgrading > from Debian Wheezy-and-earlier, to Devuan Jessie. > > ..the smaller it is, the easier it will be to support > and maintain. > The problem is that wheezy is only supported until May next year a
[DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Anyone know if there is an Apulse package for Devuan? I thought I had it working a couple months back but now, on a different machine, I cannot find the Apulse package. I don't remember how I got it working. Checking google of course brings up the git repo for apulse but there looks like some issues about sandboxing. https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Hi, On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 03:35:12PM -0500, dev wrote: > Anyone know if there is an Apulse package for Devuan? I thought I had it > working a couple months back but now, on a different machine, I > cannot find the Apulse package. I don't remember how I got it working. > > Checking google of course brings up the git repo for apulse but there > looks like some issues about sandboxing. https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse > > Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ? Does FF 55 not support ALSA OOTB? FWIW, Skype-for-Linux, which previously required Pulseaudio, now runs with vanilla ALSA. -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What if...
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:26:24 +0100, Rowland wrote in message <20170918212624.530e2...@devstation.samdom.example.com>: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 22:09:08 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:03:47 +0100, Antony wrote in message > > <201709181703.47988.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > > > > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 15:54:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote: > > > > > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > > > > > > ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them. > > > > And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit. > > > > > > So, we focus on getting people to use Devuan Jessie - not Wheezy. > > > > ..correct, we disagree on whether or not a minimal Devuan Wheezy > > will be an useful tool. > > > > > > > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to > > > > > support the outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are > > > > > already offering an escape route to those syadmins who've > > > > > chosen to stick with Wheezy because they don't want systemd. > > > > > > > > ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o) > > > > I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good > > > > manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan > > > > Jessie etc. > > > > > > I don't see the purpose of having a Devuan Wheezy. > > > > ..then we disagree, I only see it as an useful stepping stone > > tool to help (convince) people upgrade to Devuan Jessie etc. > > > > > After all, Debian Wheezy is systemd-free by default (yes, you can > > > install it yourself if you want to, but people who've done that > > > aren't looking for Devuan), so what's the benefit in us > > > advertising a "systemd-free Wheezy" to the world? > > > > ..see above. > > > > > Anyone doing a review of it would say "this is Debian with some > > > optional packages taken out". > > > > ..see above. > > > > > > ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had > > > > popularity-contest 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more > > > > have even older versions, and according to our own > > > > http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to http://popcon.debian.org/ we > > > > still don't match the 2693 who might still have 1.46 (lenny) > > > > installed. > > > > > > > > ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o) > > > > > > What do you expect that "manpower" to do? > > > > ..some of them will help build Devuan in the same way they > > have helped build Debian. > > How many, and who, depends on how we welcome them. > > > > > Not everyone running Debian as a sysadmin (or end user) is going > > > to contribute to the Devuan project. > > > > ..correct. > > > > > > > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still > > > > > working. > > > > > > > > > > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no > > > > > solution for group 2 because they're happy with what they've > > > > > already got. > > > > > > > > ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own > > > > merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind > > > > up helping out. Just give it time. ;o) > > > > > > 1. Anyone who's running Debian Squeeze or earlier isn't failing to > > > upgrade because of systemd, therefore Devuan isn't an argument in > > > their case. > > > > ..correct, they only need upgrades if they somehow are exposed to > > internet-like threats thru usb-sticks, old floppies, lan wiring, > > dying BIOS chips (BTDT), UEFI firmware with timeouts etc. > > > > > 2. Anyone running Debian Wheezy is either systemd-free, in which > > > case Devuan Wheezy would be identical, or else they've installed > > > systemd themselves, which presumably means they want to run it, > > > and therefore aren't interested in Devuan. > > > > ..you forget the kinda people who got stuck with systemd because > > they trusted Debian to be the good guys. BTDT. > > > > ..the only real difference between your vision of Debian Wheezy > > and Devuan Wheezy is the upgrade path away from systemd. > > > > ..the difference between your vision of Devuan Wheezy and mine, > > is I only want it to contain the bare minimum people might need > > to _safely_ move on upgrading to Devuan Jessie. > > > > ..that bit "_safely_" is what most people hesitating, may wanna > > see a track record on. And, either way, good or bad, we will > > build it. > > > > > 3. Anyone running Debian Wheezy who wants to upgrade to Jessie can > > > upgrade to Devuan Jessie to avoid systemd. If there are problems > > > with that upgrade process, *that*'s what we need help with > > > debugging and fixing. > > > > ..that too, yes. > > > > > 4. Anyone running Debian Jessie who wants to get away from systemd > > > can also upgrade to Devuan Jessie. Again, if there are problems > > > with that upgrade, that's where we need help, not with taking > > > Debian Wheezy, stripping out the optional systemd bits,
Re: [DNG] upgrade from Debian stretch to Devuan ascii?
On 170917-21:39+0100, Antony Stone wrote: > On Sunday 17 September 2017 at 21:30:16, Adam Borowski wrote: > > > With KVM, there's no need for X to run as root. > > I don't see the connection between these two - are you talking about the > virtualisation framework and the graphical windowing environment? > > Unless I've got my abbreviations screwed up, please elaborate on your comment? ... > Antony. Here's a paste, verbatim, a little abbreviated: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:27:11 + (UTC) From root@localdomain Fri Jun 23 23:27:12 2017 From: root To: root@localdomain Subject: apt-listchanges: news for gdOv xorg-server (2:1.18.3-2) unstable; urgency=medium ... xorg-server (2:1.17.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium The Xorg server is no longer setuid root by default. This change reduces the risk of privilege escalation due to X server bugs, but has some side effects: * it relies on logind and libpam-systemd * it relies on a kernel video driver (so the userspace component doesn't touch the hardware directly) * it needs X to run on the virtual console (VT) it was started from * it changes the location for storing the Xorg log from /var/log/ to ~/.local/share/xorg/ On systems where those are not available, the new xserver-xorg-legacy package is needed to allow X to run with elevated privileges. See the Xwrapper.config(5) manual page for configuration details. -- Julien Cristau Tue, 27 Oct 2015 22:54:11 + End of paste. I just couldn't get my (now AMD) ATI-cards to work without xserver-xorg-legacy, i.e. without sticking, as fsmithred writes in his replies to this very topic (citation manual): > - install xserver-xorg-legacy > - [if no display manager] add needs_root_rights=yes to > /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config And it does mean running Xorg as root! And it is vulnerable, like Adam Borowski suggests! Here's what masters of Linux security like no others (spender and PaX Team) stuck in the help for: ( a complete paste but unicode drawing chars replace with some ascii poor replacement, out of concern for mail agents/web representing those poorly ) .config - Linux/x86 4.9.50 Kernel Configuration > Security options > Grsecurity > Customize Configuration > Memory Protections > .- Disable privileged I/O ---. | CONFIG_GRKERNSEC_IO: | | | | If you say Y here, all ioperm and iopl calls will return an error. | | Ioperm and iopl can be used to modify the running kernel. | | Unfortunately, some programs need this access to operate properly, | | the most notable of which are XFree86 and hwclock. hwclock can be | | remedied by having RTC support in the kernel, so real-time | | clock support is enabled if this option is enabled, to ensure | | that hwclock operates correctly. If hwclock still does not work, | | either update udev or symlink /dev/rtc to /dev/rtc0. | | | | If you're using XFree86 or a version of Xorg from 2012 or earlier, | | you may not be able to boot into a graphical environment with this | | option enabled. In this case, you should use the RBAC system instead. | | | | Symbol: GRKERNSEC_IO [=n] | | Type : boolean | | Prompt: Disable privileged I/O | | Location: | | -> Security options | | -> Grsecurity | | -> Grsecurity (GRKERNSEC [=y]) | | -> Customize Configuration | | -> Memory Protections | | Defined at grsecurity/Kconfig:44 | | Depends on: GRKERNSEC [=y] && X86 [=y] | | Selects: RTC_CLASS [=y] && RTC_INTF_DEV [=y] && RTC_DRV_CMOS [=y] | .-( 99%)-. |< Exit > | .. I could onl
[DNG] jessie keyring
Hi folks, is there a package (in dng jessie) w/ the current repo pubkey ? W: GPG error: http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 94532124541922FB --mtx ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] jessie keyring
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 03:36:32AM +, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > is there a package (in dng jessie) w/ the current repo pubkey ? Yes. Install devuan-keyring, and run apt-get update again. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] upgrade from Debian stretch to Devuan ascii?
With a compromised CPU that has questionable smaller cores running a HIDDEN OS, I cannot see what advantages anyone gets by installing grsecurity. This is worse than having a compromised machine that is always connected to your computer. With such hardware around, GNU/Linux has just become yet another Windows. The only advantage _till_now_ is GNU/Linux still allows user-centred configurations and modularity. There is yet the other uncertainty of what ISPs do with data travelling through their systems. Even if users set up completely secure systems, their data still has to travel through an ISPs infrastructure. I am starting to believe computer security is an unattainable Utopia. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
