Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 07:57:54AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:43:09PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > Hi, I got it. It it possible to run from qemu? Running with
> > this vanilla command line panics with message "no working init found".
> > 
> > sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
> > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
> >
> 
> Hi Joel,
> 
> I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:
> 
> qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom 
> devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso -boot d -m 256\
>-localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
> 
> and it works...

For me, too :-) 
> 
> > > HND
> > 
> > Holy North Dakota?
> > Happy New Devuan?
> > Hope now does?
> > Horizontal Naked Dance?
> > Haneda Airport?
> >  
> 
> Have a Nice Day ;)
 

> HND
 
HND2 :^)

> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:20:06PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 07:57:54AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 08:43:09PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > 
> > [cut]
> > 
> > > 
> > > Hi, I got it. It it possible to run from qemu? Running with
> > > this vanilla command line panics with message "no working init found".
> > > 
> > > sudo qemu-system-x86_64 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
> > > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso
> > >
> > 
> > Hi Joel,
> > 
> > I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:
> > 
> > qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom 
> > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso -boot d -m 256\
> >-localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
> > 
> > and it works...
> 
> For me, too :-) 


Great. Any feedback will be very welcome. Yesterday I worked a bit on
a version with framebuffer support and a few more utils suggested by
other devuaners. I have also put together an i386 image, which I am
now uploading. I will post an update in due course.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
[snip]
> > > I am currently running it mainly from qemu. My line looks like this:
> > > 
> > > qemu-system-x86_64 -cdrom 
> > > devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso -boot d -m 256\
> > >-localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22
> > > 
> > > and it works...
> > 
> > For me, too :-) 
> 
> 
> Great. Any feedback will be very welcome. Yesterday I worked a bit on
> a version with framebuffer support and a few more utils suggested by
> other devuaners. I have also put together an i386 image, which I am
> now uploading. I will post an update in due course.

Documenting the qemu invocation will help. I haven't used
qemu lately and had forgotten about the -boot d argument,
which is probably what makes the difference here.

I was interested to learn that I can likely boot linux
liveCDs on Intel Macs, and look forward to adding this small
distro to my backup and rescue tools.

Joel
 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Jaromil]

ahoy,

On Wed, 11 May 2016, KatolaZ wrote:

> The results of those experiments can be found here:
> 
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/

happy to see this :^)

one Q: can you change the format of the list here
http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/old/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso_dpkg_get_selections

and include package versions on the second column?

ciao!

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Jaromil]

hi Joel,

On Thu, 12 May 2016, Joel Roth wrote:

> On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 11:43:48AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
> > If someone want to see what Devuan-Jessie beta looks like without
> > installing it, I made some live isos. I expect that there will eventually
> > be an official Devuan-Live, but this is not it. HTH.
> > 
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/unofficial_devuan_live/
> 
> I found this:
> 
> unofficial_live_devuan_beta_amd64_snapshot-20160506_1604.iso

yes, this is the Refracta live iso BASE (not minimal) by fsmithred


> Can it be booted with qemu?

for some reason, not. I had this problem too, asked and was told to
use virtualbox for these snapshots. I haven't found the time to
investigate further why such an iso wouldn't work on qemu/kvm

ciao
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[DNG] Torrents for every single install image

[info at smallinnovations.nl]

Hi All,

I have created a single torrent file for every installation image inside 
the 10 Gb and are actively seeding.
Is there a way to add them to a website or wiki for easy access for 
everyone?


HND

Nick
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".

My hardware can't handle kvm.

D

On 13 May 2016 at 10:16, Jaromil  wrote:
>
>
> ahoy,
>
> On Wed, 11 May 2016, KatolaZ wrote:
>
>> The results of those experiments can be found here:
>>
>>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/
>
> happy to see this :^)
>
> one Q: can you change the format of the list here
> http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/iso/old/devuan-1.0-beta-minimal-unofficial-20160511_1204.iso_dpkg_get_selections
>
> and include package versions on the second column?
>
> ciao!
>
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[DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[KatolaZ]

Dear Devuaners,

I have worked a bit more on the unofficial minimal images of Devuan
Beta. I have tried to incorporate all the comments I received, except
those which would have resulted in a substantial increase of the
image footprint.

The updated stuff can be foud at:

  http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu

We now have both amd64 and i386 images, and I have also included some
info to run the images on qemu. If you happen to use those images
successfully on another virtual machine environment, just let me know
how you did and I can update the webpage with the relevant info.

This new version has support for framebuffer (but you can also choose
to boot without framebuffer support, if you like), locales, keymaps,
mouse (via gpm), and a few more utils suggested by some of you. The
cost is that both images are slightly larger than 250MB (that was my
target upper bound), but I hope you would forgive me for the
annoyance. I will probably work on trimming more fat to stay within
the quarter-GigaByte in the next few days.

I have also added both a list of packages with version numbers (as
required by jaromil) aside with the result of "dpkg --get-selections",
which can be readily used to replicate the experiment on any other
system (i.e., by dselect update && dpkg --clear-selections && dpkg
--set-selections < FILE && dselect).

My plan is to have a new release per week, if apt-get upgrade install
new packages, until we get to stable.

Comments, suggestions, and critics are welcome.

HH

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Joel Roth]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 11:20:41AM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> hi Joel,
> 
> On Thu, 12 May 2016, Joel Roth wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 11:43:48AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
> > > If someone want to see what Devuan-Jessie beta looks like without
> > > installing it, I made some live isos. I expect that there will eventually
> > > be an official Devuan-Live, but this is not it. HTH.
> > > 
> > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/unofficial_devuan_live/
> > 
> > I found this:
> > 
> > unofficial_live_devuan_beta_amd64_snapshot-20160506_1604.iso
> 
> yes, this is the Refracta live iso BASE (not minimal) by fsmithred
> 
> 
> > Can it be booted with qemu?
> 
> for some reason, not. I had this problem too, asked and was told to
> use virtualbox for these snapshots. I haven't found the time to
> investigate further why such an iso wouldn't work on qemu/kvm

Hi Jaromil,

Katolaz's invocation works for me:

system-x86_64 -boot d -m 256 -localtime --enable-kvm -net nic -net 
user,hostfwd=tcp::5556-:22 -cdrom
unofficial_live_devuan_beta_amd64_snapshot-20160506_1604.iso

Minimally, -m 256, -boot d, and -cdrom options are needed.

system-x86_64 -boot d -m 256 --enable-kvm -cdrom 
unofficial_live_devuan_beta_amd64_snapshot-20160506_1604.iso

Seems like wiki material everyone needs to be able
to test stuff via qemu where possible.

Thanks,

Joel

> ciao
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

David Hare wrote:
> This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> 
> My hardware can't handle kvm.

Even running as root?

> D
> 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> David Hare wrote:
> > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> > 
> > My hardware can't handle kvm.
> 
> Even running as root?
> 

Well, it should be sufficient to

# chmod 666 /dev/kvm

in order to provide kvm support to regular users.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:56:01PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> > David Hare wrote:
> > > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
> > > 
> > > My hardware can't handle kvm.
> > 
> > Even running as root?
> > 
> 
> Well, it should be sufficient to
> 
> # chmod 666 /dev/kvm
> 
> in order to provide kvm support to regular users.

An article points out that allowing users to allocate
arbitrary amounts of physical memory may not be the best
policy in some environments.
 
You can also join the user to the kvm group:

ls -l /dev/kvm

crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm


btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 

Joel

> My2Cents
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:11:53AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]

> 
> An article points out that allowing users to allocate
> arbitrary amounts of physical memory may not be the best
> policy in some environments.
>  
> You can also join the user to the kvm group:
> 
> ls -l /dev/kvm
> 
> crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
> 
> 
> btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
> the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 
> 

The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.

HND

KatolaZ

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[DNG] Keep the friendsofdevuan site or not?

[David Harrison]

Hi all,

I just had a renewal notice for friendsofdevuan.org. Nothing expensive, 
and I can just let it sit there, but the email set me thinking...


Is it worth keeping a friends-of site? It was mildly useful while Devuan 
had a single-page site, but that's no longer the state of affairs. Nice 
people posted various how-tos on installation and configuration, but of 
those posts must be obsolete now the beta is out.


What purpose might an unofficial site like friendsof serve? I was 
thinking of user artwork, the more experimental 
don't-try-this-at-home-kids tutorials, unofficial mirror lists and the 
like. Do you have any other ideas? Please let me know off-list.


Thanks,

David Harrison/FlibberTGibbet

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[Irrwahn]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 12:28:24 +0100, Katolaz wrote:
> Dear Devuaners,
> 
> I have worked a bit more on the unofficial minimal images of Devuan
> Beta. I have tried to incorporate all the comments I received, except
> those which would have resulted in a substantial increase of the
> image footprint.
> 
> The updated stuff can be foud at:
> 
>   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
> 
> We now have both amd64 and i386 images, and I have also included some
> info to run the images on qemu. If you happen to use those images
> successfully on another virtual machine environment, just let me know
> how you did and I can update the webpage with the relevant info.
 

Hi Katolaz,

I did a *very quick* check of your live images on VirtualBox. Both 
amd64 and i386 versions boot fine on a diskless VM created with the 
"Debian (64-bit)" preset. I could log in, ping a machine on the 
internet and perform a clean shutdown.

However, when I tried the i386 image on a VM created with the 
"Debian (32-bit)" preset, I got the following error message right 
after hitting enter on the boot menu screen: 
+-- 
| This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
| pae
| Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
+-- 

One minor cosmetic quibble for all cases: The boot menu looked 
truncated. E.g., what presumably should read "(default)" read just 
"(defa" instead. 

HTH, HAND
Urban

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
Joel Roth wrote:

> > You can also join the user to the kvm group:
> > 
> > ls -l /dev/kvm
> > 
> > crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
> > 
> > btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
> > the '+' suffix means, and how you set it? 
> > 
> 
> The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
> file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.

Interesting, because of the ACL settings I didn't need to
use root nor join the kvm group:

$ getfacl /dev/kvm
getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names
# file: dev/kvm
# owner: root
# group: kvm
user::rw-
user:jroth:rw-
group::rw-
mask::rw-
other::---

I hope these ACLs are used sparingly in Devuan/Debian. The permissions model
itself has taken a long time for me to grok.

Hmm, so why do files like /etc/apt/sources.list have ACLs?
Oh, I see they change automagically when permissions change.
Guess I'll look for a tutorial somewheres.

I'd thought ACL was something I could ignore, like selinux,
without consequence.

I think of the analogy with the suprise nay frustration I
faced when settings in /etc/someapp not working as expected
because of stuff in /etc/default/someapp I hadn't known
about.

cheers,

Joel
 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[. fsmithred]

To boot the i386 iso in virtualbox, you need to go into the settings for
System, Processor, and check the box for "Enable PAE/NX". I just did it,
and it works great. One thing I had to do was hit TAB at the boot menu and
change the vga setting to vga=788 so it would fit on this small laptop
screen (1280x800).

The truncated items in the boot menu can be fixed by changing some of the
settings in the isolinux config files. I don't remember which ones, and I
generally do it by trial and error. If you comment out the rsync line that
copies the system in refractasnapshot, you'll end up with an iso that just
has the boot menu. It's a much faster way to test. (Or, you could just
shorten the menu entries.)

-fsr (aka .fsr)


On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Irrwahn  wrote:

> On Fri, 13 May 2016 12:28:24 +0100, Katolaz wrote:
> > Dear Devuaners,
> >
> > I have worked a bit more on the unofficial minimal images of Devuan
> > Beta. I have tried to incorporate all the comments I received, except
> > those which would have resulted in a substantial increase of the
> > image footprint.
> >
> > The updated stuff can be foud at:
> >
> >   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
> >
> > We now have both amd64 and i386 images, and I have also included some
> > info to run the images on qemu. If you happen to use those images
> > successfully on another virtual machine environment, just let me know
> > how you did and I can update the webpage with the relevant info.
> 
>
> Hi Katolaz,
>
> I did a *very quick* check of your live images on VirtualBox. Both
> amd64 and i386 versions boot fine on a diskless VM created with the
> "Debian (64-bit)" preset. I could log in, ping a machine on the
> internet and perform a clean shutdown.
>
> However, when I tried the i386 image on a VM created with the
> "Debian (32-bit)" preset, I got the following error message right
> after hitting enter on the boot menu screen:
> +--
> | This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
> | pae
> | Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
> +--
>
> One minor cosmetic quibble for all cases: The boot menu looked
> truncated. E.g., what presumably should read "(default)" read just
> "(defa" instead.
>
> HTH, HAND
> Urban
>
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[Irrwahn]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 08:52:42 -0400,   Fsmithred wrote:
> To boot the i386 iso in virtualbox, you need to go into the settings for 
> System, Processor, and check the box for "Enable PAE/NX". I just did it, and 
> it works great. 

That makes sense. As I wrote, it was just a very quick check 
using default presets. Didn't go as far as configure anything 
at all. Thanks for the heads up!

Regards
Urban

> One thing I had to do was hit TAB at the boot menu and change the vga setting 
> to vga=788 so it would fit on this small laptop screen (1280x800).

> The truncated items in the boot menu can be fixed by changing some of the 
> settings in the isolinux config files. I don't remember which ones, and I 
> generally do it by trial and error. If you comment out the rsync line that 
> copies the system in refractasnapshot, you'll end up with an iso that just 
> has the boot menu. It's a much faster way to test. (Or, you could just 
> shorten the menu entries.)
> 
> -fsr (aka .fsr)
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Irrwahn  > wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 13 May 2016 12:28:24 +0100, Katolaz wrote:
> > Dear Devuaners,
> >
> > I have worked a bit more on the unofficial minimal images of Devuan
> > Beta. I have tried to incorporate all the comments I received, except
> > those which would have resulted in a substantial increase of the
> > image footprint.
> >
> > The updated stuff can be foud at:
> >
> >   http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
> >
> > We now have both amd64 and i386 images, and I have also included some
> > info to run the images on qemu. If you happen to use those images
> > successfully on another virtual machine environment, just let me know
> > how you did and I can update the webpage with the relevant info.
> 
> 
> Hi Katolaz,
> 
> I did a *very quick* check of your live images on VirtualBox. Both
> amd64 and i386 versions boot fine on a diskless VM created with the
> "Debian (64-bit)" preset. I could log in, ping a machine on the
> internet and perform a clean shutdown.
> 
> However, when I tried the i386 image on a VM created with the
> "Debian (32-bit)" preset, I got the following error message right
> after hitting enter on the boot menu screen:
> +--
> | This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
> | pae
> | Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
> +--
> 
> One minor cosmetic quibble for all cases: The boot menu looked
> truncated. E.g., what presumably should read "(default)" read just
> "(defa" instead.
> 
> HTH, HAND
> Urban
> 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 08:52:42AM -0400, . fsmithred wrote:
> To boot the i386 iso in virtualbox, you need to go into the settings for
> System, Processor, and check the box for "Enable PAE/NX". I just did it,
> and it works great. One thing I had to do was hit TAB at the boot menu and
> change the vga setting to vga=788 so it would fit on this small laptop
> screen (1280x800).
>

Yep, or you could also boot without framebuffer support (second
option). I had considered using "vga=scan", but this might be annoying
on some old BIOS. I don't remember if it is possible to set multiple
resolutions with vga= (e.g., vga=792,788,normal), and I never liked
vga=ask. Suggestions on this point are welcome.


> The truncated items in the boot menu can be fixed by changing some of the
> settings in the isolinux config files. I don't remember which ones, and I
> generally do it by trial and error. If you comment out the rsync line that
> copies the system in refractasnapshot, you'll end up with an iso that just
> has the boot menu. It's a much faster way to test. (Or, you could just
> shorten the menu entries.)
> 

Yep, I have to edit live.cfg in iso/isolinux/, which is somehting I
will do for future snapshots.

Thanks for the fedback.

HND

KatolaZ

P.S.:@fsmithred, I belive you are one of those in the refracta team I
should thank for refractasnapshot :)

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:31:49PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Hi Katolaz,
> 
> I did a *very quick* check of your live images on VirtualBox. Both 
> amd64 and i386 versions boot fine on a diskless VM created with the 
> "Debian (64-bit)" preset. I could log in, ping a machine on the 
> internet and perform a clean shutdown.
> 
> However, when I tried the i386 image on a VM created with the 
> "Debian (32-bit)" preset, I got the following error message right 
> after hitting enter on the boot menu screen: 
> +-- 
> | This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
> | pae
> | Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
> +-- 
>

This is something I didn't think about. It might be better to have a
i686 kernel image without PAE. I don't even know if there is still a
kernel image without PAE in the official repos :D

Thanks

HND

KatolaZ

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[DNG] Fwd: Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE

[. fsmithred]

-- Forwarded message --
From: . fsmithred 
Date: Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Beta Live Minimal -- UPDATE
To: KatolaZ 


That would be the i586 kernel.

linux-image-3.16.0-4-586- Linux 3.16 for older PCs
linux-image-586 - Linux for older PCs (meta-package)

-fsr


On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:31:49PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> >
> > Hi Katolaz,
> >
> > I did a *very quick* check of your live images on VirtualBox. Both
> > amd64 and i386 versions boot fine on a diskless VM created with the
> > "Debian (64-bit)" preset. I could log in, ping a machine on the
> > internet and perform a clean shutdown.
> >
> > However, when I tried the i386 image on a VM created with the
> > "Debian (32-bit)" preset, I got the following error message right
> > after hitting enter on the boot menu screen:
> > +--
> > | This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU:
> > | pae
> > | Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
> > +--
> >
>
> This is something I didn't think about. It might be better to have a
> i686 kernel image without PAE. I don't even know if there is still a
> kernel image without PAE in the official repos :D
>
> Thanks
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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[DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
> 
> In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded purple
> is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in a tiny VM.
> And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused window is an
> extremely different color than those without focus. I'm a production
> man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance which window has
> focus.
> 
> Great job on the UI.
> 
> SteveT

Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having 
it after I log in.

But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt 
yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can 
use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and they'rre 
still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to have no 
effect on the actual screen. 

I can use geeqie to set a background image, but I have to do that every 
time I start up.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:

 Subject: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 9:37 AM
 
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
>>
>> In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded purple
>> is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in a tiny VM.
>> And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused window is an
>> extremely different color than those without focus. I'm a production
>> man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance which window has
>> focus.
>>
>> Great job on the UI.
>>
>> SteveT
>
> Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
> it after I log in.
> 
> But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
> yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
> use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and they'rre
> still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to have no
> effect on the actual screen.
> 
> I can use geeqie to set a background image, but I have to do that every
> time I start up.
> 
> -- hendrik
> 

Unfortunately the slim login is still leafy color.  Once you get to the 
desktop, you should have the purpy wallpaper but with the unintended blue icons 
and incorrect adwaita pointer.  All that should have been fixed by now but 
there have been more important issues than cosmetics.  It really is on the todo 
list.  At least the boot screen is getting there . . .

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
>> David Hare wrote:
>> > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
>> >
>> > My hardware can't handle kvm.
>>
>> Even running as root?
>>

>Well, it should be sufficient to

># chmod 666 /dev/kvm

>in order to provide kvm support to regular users.

>My2Cents

/proc/cpuinfo must show the vmx flag to use kvm. Here it does not and
there is no option in bios to enable it. Older Intel core2.
http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Processor_support

Never mind, I can still use qemu as far as the iso's menu otherwise
boot them fully and usably with "findiso" from grub.

D

On 13 May 2016 at 13:48, Joel Roth  wrote:
> KatolaZ wrote:
> Joel Roth wrote:
>
>> > You can also join the user to the kvm group:
>> >
>> > ls -l /dev/kvm
>> >
>> > crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
>> >
>> > btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
>> > the '+' suffix means, and how you set it?
>> >
>>
>> The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
>> file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.
>
> Interesting, because of the ACL settings I didn't need to
> use root nor join the kvm group:
>
> $ getfacl /dev/kvm
> getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names
> # file: dev/kvm
> # owner: root
> # group: kvm
> user::rw-
> user:jroth:rw-
> group::rw-
> mask::rw-
> other::---
>
> I hope these ACLs are used sparingly in Devuan/Debian. The permissions model
> itself has taken a long time for me to grok.
>
> Hmm, so why do files like /etc/apt/sources.list have ACLs?
> Oh, I see they change automagically when permissions change.
> Guess I'll look for a tutorial somewheres.
>
> I'd thought ACL was something I could ignore, like selinux,
> without consequence.
>
> I think of the analogy with the suprise nay frustration I
> faced when settings in /etc/someapp not working as expected
> because of stuff in /etc/default/someapp I hadn't known
> about.
>
> cheers,
>
> Joel
>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
>>
>> --
>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>
> --
> Joel Roth
>
>
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Boruch Baum]

@'Hendrik Bloom':
I no longer have SliM installed on my Devuan machine, but I remember
that the background image was set in a file named something like
'/etc/slim.conf' or '/etc/slim/slim.conf' or
'/usr/share/slim/slim.conf'

@'Go Linux':
Why not just tell Hendrik how to change the background himself? It's a
trivial change to a text config file. I no longer have the package
installed and don't remember the file name.


On 2016-05-13 15:20, Go Linux wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 9:37 AM
>  
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
> >>
> >> In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded purple
> >> is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in a tiny VM.
> >> And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused window is an
> >> extremely different color than those without focus. I'm a production
> >> man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance which window has
> >> focus.
> >>
> >> Great job on the UI.
> >>
> >> SteveT
> >
> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
> > it after I log in.
> > 
> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and they'rre
> > still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to have no
> > effect on the actual screen.
> > 
> > I can use geeqie to set a background image, but I have to do that every
> > time I start up.
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> > 
> 
> Unfortunately the slim login is still leafy color.  Once you get to the 
> desktop, you should have the purpy wallpaper but with the unintended blue 
> icons and incorrect adwaita pointer.  All that should have been fixed by now 
> but there have been more important issues than cosmetics.  It really is on 
> the todo list.  At least the boot screen is getting there . . .
> 
> golinux
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 5/13/16, Boruch Baum  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 10:34 AM
 
On 2016-05-13 15:20, Go Linux wrote:
>
> 
> On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
>  Subject: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 9:37 AM
> 
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
>> >>
>> >> In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded purple
>> >> is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in a tiny VM.
>> >> And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused window is an
>> >> extremely different color than those without focus. I'm a production
>> >> man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance which window has
>> >> focus.
>> >>
>> >> Great job on the UI.
>> >>
>> >> SteveT
>> >
>> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
>> > it after I log in.
>> >
>> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
>> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
>> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and they'rre
>> > still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to have no
>> > effect on the actual screen.
>> >
>> > I can use geeqie to set a background image, but I have to do that every
>> > time I start up.
>> >
>> > -- hendrik
> >
>>
>> Unfortunately the slim login is still leafy color.  Once you get to the 
>> desktop, you should have the purpy wallpaper but with the unintended blue 
>> icons and incorrect adwaita pointer.  All that should have been fixed by now 
>> but there have been more important issues than cosmetics.  It really is on 
>> the todo list.  At least the boot screen is getting there . . .
>>
>> golinux
> 
> @'Hendrik Bloom':
> I no longer have SliM installed on my Devuan machine, but I remember
> that the background image was set in a file named something like
> '/etc/slim.conf' or '/etc/slim/slim.conf' or
> '/usr/share/slim/slim.conf'
> 
> @'Go Linux':
> Why not just tell Hendrik how to change the background himself? It's a
> trivial change to a text config file. I no longer have the package
> installed and don't remember the file name.
> 



Why? Because I have never done it myself!  Here's the link to your notes:

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/slim/issues/10

golinux





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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[David Hare]

I'm working on a script to generate the files to support efi boot with
generic shell commands. This one works in qemu and booted an actual cd
on a uefi machine. This may be of interest for those doing live builds
or installers. http://paste.debian.net/683478

This should also work for a fat-fomatted live usb (if you use
syslinux,for now a dummy /isolinux/isolinux.cfg in the usb's root is
needed )

D

On 13 May 2016 at 16:27, David Hare  wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
>>> David Hare wrote:
>>> > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
>>> >
>>> > My hardware can't handle kvm.
>>>
>>> Even running as root?
>>>
>
>>Well, it should be sufficient to
>
>># chmod 666 /dev/kvm
>
>>in order to provide kvm support to regular users.
>
>>My2Cents
>
> /proc/cpuinfo must show the vmx flag to use kvm. Here it does not and
> there is no option in bios to enable it. Older Intel core2.
> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Processor_support
>
> Never mind, I can still use qemu as far as the iso's menu otherwise
> boot them fully and usably with "findiso" from grub.
>
> D
>
> On 13 May 2016 at 13:48, Joel Roth  wrote:
>> KatolaZ wrote:
>> Joel Roth wrote:
>>
>>> > You can also join the user to the kvm group:
>>> >
>>> > ls -l /dev/kvm
>>> >
>>> > crw-rw+ 1 root kvm 10, 232 May 11 11:02 /dev/kvm
>>> >
>>> > btw, 'c' means character mode device. Does anyone know what
>>> > the '+' suffix means, and how you set it?
>>> >
>>>
>>> The "+" means that you have an ACL (Access Control List) set for that
>>> file. You manage ACLs with setfacl and getfacl.
>>
>> Interesting, because of the ACL settings I didn't need to
>> use root nor join the kvm group:
>>
>> $ getfacl /dev/kvm
>> getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names
>> # file: dev/kvm
>> # owner: root
>> # group: kvm
>> user::rw-
>> user:jroth:rw-
>> group::rw-
>> mask::rw-
>> other::---
>>
>> I hope these ACLs are used sparingly in Devuan/Debian. The permissions model
>> itself has taken a long time for me to grok.
>>
>> Hmm, so why do files like /etc/apt/sources.list have ACLs?
>> Oh, I see they change automagically when permissions change.
>> Guess I'll look for a tutorial somewheres.
>>
>> I'd thought ACL was something I could ignore, like selinux,
>> without consequence.
>>
>> I think of the analogy with the suprise nay frustration I
>> faced when settings in /etc/someapp not working as expected
>> because of stuff in /etc/default/someapp I hadn't known
>> about.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Joel
>>
>>> HND
>>>
>>> KatolaZ
>>>
>>> --
>>> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
>>> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
>>> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
>>> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>>
>> --
>> Joel Roth
>>
>>
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Boruch Baum]

On 2016-05-13 16:21, Go Linux wrote:
> On Fri, 5/13/16, Boruch Baum  wrote:
> > On 2016-05-13 15:20, Go Linux wrote:
> >> On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> >> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
> >> > it after I log in.
> >> >
> >> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
> >> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
> >> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and they'rre
> >> > still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to have no
> >> > effect on the actual screen.
> >> >
> >> > I can use geeqie to set a background image, but I have to do that every
> >> > time I start up.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately the slim login is still leafy color. Once you get
> >> to the desktop, you should have the purpy wallpaper but with the
> >> unintended blue icons and incorrect adwaita pointer. All that
> >> should have been fixed by now but there have been more important
> >> issues than cosmetics. It really is on the todo list. At least
> >> the boot screen is getting there . . .
> >>
> > @'Hendrik Bloom':
> > I no longer have SliM installed on my Devuan machine, but I remember
> > that the background image was set in a file named something like
> > '/etc/slim.conf' or '/etc/slim/slim.conf' or
> > '/usr/share/slim/slim.conf'
> >
> > @'Go Linux':
> > Why not just tell Hendrik how to change the background himself? It's a
> > trivial change to a text config file. I no longer have the package
> > installed and don't remember the file name.
> >
> Why? Because I have never done it myself!  Here's the link to your notes:
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/slim/issues/10
Oops, Sorry.

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 06:59:37 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> please try the iso linked from http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu


However, due to the size of the ramdisk used at boot time, 256 MB of
RAM are currently necessary to boot.


That's messed up. Your subdistro runs in 37MB of RAM, but the initramfs
requires 256MB. I'd suggest adding another initramfs that assumes a
no-encryption, no-lvm ext4 root partition, and does nothing but get
that root partition mounted.

I bet you can put it on even more of a diet if you use busybox to do
most of the work.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Keep the friendsofdevuan site or not?

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 13:20:44 +0100
David Harrison  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I just had a renewal notice for friendsofdevuan.org. Nothing
> expensive, and I can just let it sit there, but the email set me
> thinking...
> 
> Is it worth keeping a friends-of site? It was mildly useful while
> Devuan had a single-page site, but that's no longer the state of
> affairs. Nice people posted various how-tos on installation and
> configuration, but of those posts must be obsolete now the beta is
> out.
> 
> What purpose might an unofficial site like friendsof serve? I was 
> thinking of user artwork, the more experimental 
> don't-try-this-at-home-kids tutorials, unofficial mirror lists and
> the like. Do you have any other ideas? Please let me know off-list.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David Harrison/FlibberTGibbet

If I had that domain, I'd pay to keep it.

* Prevent systemd trolls from getting control of it

* Put up useful auxiliary information

* Put stuff that isn't in the package system, but is useful

* Put howtos
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:37:20 -0400
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
> > 
> > In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded
> > purple is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in
> > a tiny VM. And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused
> > window is an extremely different color than those without focus.
> > I'm a production man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance
> > which window has focus.
> > 
> > Great job on the UI.
> > 
> > SteveT  
> 
> Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having 
> it after I log in.
> 
> But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt 
> yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can 
> use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and
> they'rre still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to
> have no effect on the actual screen. 

Yes. That nauseating rotten mustard color occurs on the login screen.
On LXDE, it disappears and is replaced by the colors I described
earlier in this thread. So the Xfce implementation fails to load the
desktop graphic. Probably it's missing a command in ~/.xinitrc or its
equivalent for display managers.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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[DNG] Intel: was Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 16:27:06 +0100
David Hare  wrote:


> /proc/cpuinfo must show the vmx flag to use kvm. Here it does not and
> there is no option in bios to enable it. Older Intel core2.
> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Processor_support

This is why I always buy AMD. My friends tell me that all AMD
processors from the last 6 years support kvm, whereas my friends tell
me Intel *still* makes processors without this capability.

I would have never found the route to escape from systemd if I didn't
have VMs to work with.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:06:27PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2016 06:59:37 +0100
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
> > please try the iso linked from http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
> 
> 
> However, due to the size of the ramdisk used at boot time, 256 MB of
> RAM are currently necessary to boot.
> 
> 
> That's messed up. Your subdistro runs in 37MB of RAM, but the initramfs
> requires 256MB. I'd suggest adding another initramfs that assumes a
> no-encryption, no-lvm ext4 root partition, and does nothing but get
> that root partition mounted.
> 
> I bet you can put it on even more of a diet if you use busybox to do
> most of the work.
> 

Steve, I cannot (and I don't want to) make any assumption on behalf of
potential users of a minimal live system :) The initramfs contains all
the modules shipped with the standard Devuan kernel, that's why it is
so fat. In fact, "du -ch /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel" says that
those sum up to 159 MB, which account for most of the space required
by the initramfs.

Now, it is obviously possible to strip it down to the bare minimum,
removing most of those modules, but then the corresponding live
images, which should run, by definition, on a relatively wide number
of machines, with heterogeneous hw configurations, will be mostly
useless.

Imagine a case in which you, the user, would like to boot from a live
image, e.g. for rescue purposes, only to find out that your live CD
does not recognise your disk controller, or your graphic adapter, or
your ethernet card. Well, that image might be perfectly slim, and
optimal, and everyting, but completely useless if it cannot help you
performing the rescue task...

I am interested in finding possible solutions to this problem, but I
am unable to find one that makes more sense than the current one.

One possibility is to create your own image containing only the
modules needed by your machine, but this is not a solution which works
for everybody. I could have done that, and in that case those images
would have run only on relatively recent lenovo laptops. Period. You,
and most of the others, would have complained that I had to consider a
wider number of hw configurations. Specifically, each person would
have complained about the fact that *his* or *her* own hardware was
not supported...

Another possibility is to decide which sets of modules can be removed,
but then you will still have unhappy users, namely those who possess
hardware for which we don't provide a kernel module.

Compiling everything into a static kernel is not a viable option
either, IMHO.

I am open to comments and suggestions on this matter, but please do
not forget that a live image does not know in advance where it will be
run, or for which reason.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:17:50PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:37:20 -0400
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
> > > 
> > > In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded
> > > purple is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in
> > > a tiny VM. And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused
> > > window is an extremely different color than those without focus.
> > > I'm a production man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance
> > > which window has focus.
> > > 
> > > Great job on the UI.
> > > 
> > > SteveT  
> > 
> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having 
> > it after I log in.
> > 
> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt 
> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can 
> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and
> > they'rre still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to
> > have no effect on the actual screen. 
> 
> Yes. That nauseating rotten mustard color occurs on the login screen.
> On LXDE, it disappears and is replaced by the colors I described
> earlier in this thread. So the Xfce implementation fails to load the
> desktop graphic. Probably it's missing a command in ~/.xinitrc or its
> equivalent for display managers.

I'm getting light purple on the login screen, but not in xfce.  Could 
it xfce is still depending on an systemd-ism that isn't there in 
order to talk to itself? 

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 07:31:28PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Steve, I cannot (and I don't want to) make any assumption on behalf of
> potential users of a minimal live system :) The initramfs contains all
> the modules shipped with the standard Devuan kernel, that's why it is
> so fat. In fact, "du -ch /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel" says that
> those sum up to 159 MB, which account for most of the space required
> by the initramfs.
>

Anyway, I have just started working on stripping down the
initramfs. This will probably go on an "experimental" branch, and I
will need people to test the resulting images on as many hw
configurations as possible. I will keep you posted, hopefully with
good news :)

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
[ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 2:06 PM
 
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:17:50PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:37:20 -0400
> Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
>> > >
>> > > In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded
>> > > purple is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in
>> > > a tiny VM. And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused
>> > > window is an extremely different color than those without focus.
>> > > I'm a production man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance
>> > > which window has focus.
>> > >
>> > > Great job on the UI.
>> > >
>> > > SteveT 
>> >
>> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
>> > it after I log in.
>> >
>> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
>> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
>> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and
>> > they'rre still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to
>> > have no effect on the actual screen.
>>
>> Yes. That nauseating rotten mustard color occurs on the login screen.
>> On LXDE, it disappears and is replaced by the colors I described
>> earlier in this thread. So the Xfce implementation fails to load the
>> desktop graphic. Probably it's missing a command in ~/.xinitrc or its
>> equivalent for display managers.
>
> I'm getting light purple on the login screen, but not in xfce.  Could
> it xfce is still depending on an systemd-ism that isn't there in
> order to talk to itself?
> 


Do you have the purpy background(s) in /use/share/backgrounds?  You can get 
them here:

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/desktop-base/tree/master/backgrounds

Then select the one that best fits you screen size from the desktop settings.

golinux


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[DNG] Some questions re the devuan release

[emninger]

Finally i succeeded in installing devuan to this odd samsung ultrabook
(it's nice but beeing amd based it's getting crazily hot with the
standard free video drivers) and now i have some questions:

Is there a place where to ask "dumb" questions (let's say, simple user
related). I don't want to disturb the experts in their
discussions  ... ?

Some considerations and suggestions regard the installer iso:

1) May be it would be good to declare in the installer windows that the
devuan desktop is xfce based.

2) I love it's using slim (and not lightdm) as default login manager.

3) May be for wireless there could be used some wpa_supplicant based
tool (like ceni e.g.)? In any case wicd is way better and less
intrusive than nm.

4) As for the desktop: On another machine i use Manjaro JWM Open-RC -
and from a functional (and esthetical!) point of view it's marvellous.
Why not as default desktop for Devuan? If you add a nice conky for
controlling and checking the system performance and net activities and
the confortable configuration tool it is as handy as any standard DE
but way way lighter.

Ok, not a critic at all, just my 2c as a suggestion.

Cheers and thanks for the good work!

Ah, i forgot: Is there a way to get a more advanced kernel? Or would
that break philosophy and setup?
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Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in

[Go Linux]

On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
 To: "Go Linux" 
 Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 9:34 PM
 
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 10:11:16PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> On Fri, 5/13/16, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] but I lose it once I log in
>  To: dng@lists.dyne.org
>  Date: Friday, May 13, 2016, 2:06 PM
> 
>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 02:17:50PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> > On Fri, 13 May 2016 10:37:20 -0400
>> > Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 09:40:04PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> >> > > Hi all,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I just installed the beta, in a VM, using the x64 DVD iso.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In my opinion, the user interface was very pleasing. The faded
>> >> > > purple is very relaxing. The fonts are all crisp and clear, even in
>> >> > > a tiny VM. And I **LOVE** the fact that the titlebar of the focused
>> >> > > window is an extremely different color than those without focus.
>> >> > > I'm a production man, and appreciate knowing at the quickest glance
>> >> > > which window has focus.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Great job on the UI.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > SteveT
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes that's a nice colour I see at start-up.  I wouldn't mind having
>> >> > it after I log in.
>> >> >
>> >> > But once things are going -- I use xfce -- I have a brighgt
>> >> > yellow-green screen.   I seem to have nno way t change it.  I can
>> >> > use Applicatinos Menu -> settings to change the settings, and
>> >> > they'rre still there the next time I adjust settings, but the seem to
>> >> > have no effect on the actual screen.
>> >>
>> >> Yes. That nauseating rotten mustard color occurs on the login screen.
>> >> On LXDE, it disappears and is replaced by the colors I described
>> >> earlier in this thread. So the Xfce implementation fails to load the
>> >> desktop graphic. Probably it's missing a command in ~/.xinitrc or its
>> >> equivalent for display managers.
>> >
>> > I'm getting light purple on the login screen, but not in xfce.  Could
>> > it xfce is still depending on an systemd-ism that isn't there in
>> > order to talk to itself?
>> >
>> 
>>
>> Do you have the purpy background(s) in /use/share/backgrounds?  You can get 
>> them here:
>>
>> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/desktop-base/tree/master/backgrounds
>>
>> Then select the one that best fits you screen size from the desktop settings.

> All I have in /usr/share/backgrounds is an xfce directory.  It has
> only one background, which *is* one of the backgrounds that the xfce
> settings tool offers me.  Even when I pick it I instead get a plain green
> background, which is *not* on the list of offered backgrounds.
> 
> Even when I ask for a solid single-colout and specify the colour, it
> ignores me and instead gives me a solid green background.
> 
> So it looks as the problem lies elsewhere.  Once I get the background
> to conform to the settings tool, perhaps it will be time to find and
> install purpy.
> 
> My guess is that xfce is relying on some other tool to set the
> background colour, and that other tool isn't there.
> 
> 
> -- hendrik
> 



Something is fubared for sure.  Setting backgrounds has always worked ootb for 
me on Xfce even when they were in various locations. Why don't you boot the 
refracta unofficial-devuan-live iso and see if you can change the bg there: 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/unofficial_devuan_live/

If that works, it's something specific to your setup.

golinux



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Re: [DNG] Some questions re the devuan release

[Irrwahn]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 00:13:28 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> Finally i succeeded in installing devuan to this odd samsung ultrabook
> (it's nice but beeing amd based it's getting crazily hot with the
> standard free video drivers) and now i have some questions:
> 
> Is there a place where to ask "dumb" questions (let's say, simple user
> related). I don't want to disturb the experts in their
> discussions  ... ?

Welcome aboard!

AIUI, this list is as good a place you can get to ask _any_ 
question about Devuan. (Cue "there are are no dumb questions.")
It's not a place for experts only. I'm certainly not an expert, 
but I hope you don't mind if I comment on some of your points.

> Some considerations and suggestions regard the installer iso:
> 
> 1) May be it would be good to declare in the installer windows that the
> devuan desktop is xfce based.

Sounds reasonable to mention the default desktop flavor. It 
really doesn't already? (I didn't pay attention last time I 
installed.)

> 2) I love it's using slim (and not lightdm) as default login manager.

However, there are problems with SLiM. Foremost, the project seems 
to be abandoned. So I'd expect it to be replaced in future Devuan 
releases. BTW, I've been using lightdm for years and it never really 
let me down, save some cosmetic issues. YMMV, etc. pp.

> 3) May be for wireless there could be used some wpa_supplicant based
> tool (like ceni e.g.)? In any case wicd is way better and less
> intrusive than nm.

IIRC Devuan even has its own GUI wrapper for wpa_supplicant. As I 
am fine with just wpa_supplicant or wpa_gui myself, I never used 
that tool and unfortunately cannot locate the package for it ATM. 

> 4) As for the desktop: On another machine i use Manjaro JWM Open-RC -
> and from a functional (and esthetical!) point of view it's marvellous.
> Why not as default desktop for Devuan? If you add a nice conky for
> controlling and checking the system performance and net activities and
> the confortable configuration tool it is as handy as any standard DE
> but way way lighter.
>
> Ok, not a critic at all, just my 2c as a suggestion.

Add my 0.5¢:
Ask 5 users and learn about 11+ preferred desktop environments. :)
On a more serious note, there have been lots of suggestions and 
discussions around the default DE, and I honestly think that Xfce 
makes a passable tradeoff between usability and resource footprint. 
Plus, it's already in the repositories. The "power users" and the 
"productivity monsters" usually know where and how to get their 
preferred GUI components (if any at all).

> Cheers and thanks for the good work!

+1. 

> Ah, i forgot: Is there a way to get a more advanced kernel? Or would
> that break philosophy and setup?

Devuan Jessie is in sync with Debian Jessie, so you will get the 
same version general purpose kernel as in Debian. You can get a 
more recent version from e.g. Devuan testing, codename Ascii. 
On a personal note: IMHO, as long as nothing is seriously broken, 
there is no need to closely follow kernel updates (modulo security 
fixes, of course). FWIW, I am running Devuan Ascii with a 3.16 
kernel and an 1.17 Xorg to keep the ... um ... "fine" AMD 
proprietary drivers working. (Inb4 others commenting on that last 
bit: No, the free drivers don't cut it, in my case at least.)

Regards, 
Urban

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