Re: Stus-List Fenderboards

[cenelson]

Similarly, I have one ~ 8" by 5 feet by 1 " backed by 2 fenders at either the widest beam of the boat or where the nearest fixed object is when in the slip.



I found an unused, white (painted) plywood shelf in the garage, drilled holes in the appropriate top corners for the lines and hang it from the top lifelines. Constructed it in about 10 minutes and it fits in my starboard locker or I leave it at the dock if I am returning after a race or daysail.  When it falls apart or I lose it, I will repeat the above!




If transiting the Panama Canal or docking at some really grungy fuel dock, etc. I might rig 2 of the above or make a longer one.




Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: dwight 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sun, Jan 12, 2014 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fenderboards



























I have one 2x4 fender board for my 35
MKII, I hang the usual fenders against the boat and the fender boards  outside of
those fenders to protect the boat,  the fender boards ride against the rough
stuff that you tie up to…works fine…My fender board is about 5-6 feet long
carried in the port locker



 



 














From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of Gary Nylander

Sent: January 12, 2014 6:52 PM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Subject: Re: Stus-List
Fenderboards






 






I have the 2x4 version. I bought the
ends from West, and they do not hold the board out as far as a real fender
would (as was mentioned in the article), but they also don't get squished
around by the forces - at times I hang a regular fender under the board to
provide more clearance, but the board provides the protection from protrusions.
My slip is rather narrow, so they are on the boat at all times and do the job.
Mine hang just underneath the toe rail at the widest part of the boat.









 









Gary









30-1











- Original Message - 









From: David Knecht 









To: CnC CnC
discussion list 









Sent: Sunday,
January 12, 2014 5:40 PM









Subject: Stus-List
Fenderboards









 






My topsides got scratched
by piers while waiting to be pulled from the water in November.  I did not
realize until we arrived that the place we were bringing the boat to had only
pylons and no dock or fenders on the pylons themselves.  I tried to position
fenders as best I could, but obviously it was not successful (especially since
they pulled the boat 5 days after they said they were going to).   






Since then I have learned
about fenderboards and plan to construct one for spring splash and future
docking adventures.  My question is about construction.  I have read
of both wood and pvc versions.  Some recommend wood up to 2x8 for a boat
of my size (http://www.practical-sailor.com/marine/build_your_own_fender_boards-10681-1.html).
 That would make a pretty heavy piece of wood.  The presumed
advantage of PVC is that it won’t weather or accumulate gunk from pylons.
 It was claimed PVC was lighter, but that depends on the type and size of
wood.  









I can’t see the need for
either wider, heavier wood or big diameter PVC.  It doesn’t seem to me
that the fenderboard  is going to be subject to alot of stress.  The
PVC would be subject to crushing force between the boat and pylon, but the
fenders will absorb alot of that.  Also, I don’t think that 3” PVC
(cheaper and lighter) will be any weaker than 4” PVC (recommended in http://boatingtales.com/making-a-fender-board/)
to a crushing force since the wall diameter is the same.  I also can’t see
why a 2x8 (recommended for my boat size) would be any better than a 2x4.  









My goal is the simplest
and lightest fenderboard that will work. It seems that either wood or pvc will
work and the actual construction is simple, but the size is me concern.









So what is the wisdom of
the list on this topic?  THanks- Dave









 









PS- Any thoughts on the
best way to get the scratches out of the topsides also appreciated









 

















 


















 














David
Knecht









Aries









1990
C&C 34+









New London, CT


















 













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Re: Stus-List folding prop for C&C 40

[cenelson]

I strongly support what Bill and Andy said about a possible different prop. 

One other important consideration for a two bladed prop is the amount of space
between the prop tip and the hull. Most 2 bladed props will be larger in 
diameter
than a 3 blade to make up for the lack of surface area in the blades for 
equivalent thrust.
Depending on the prop rpm and pitch, there needs to be a certain minimum space 
or the 
prop may produce cavitation or otherwise interfere with the hull. 

As you will soon find out, from this list or a vendor, a prop change is hardly 
as straightforward
as pulling the old and installing a different one. 

When I re-propped my 36 (from 3 blade Maxprop to 2 blade folding Gori), I had 
to replace the transmission to get the reduction needed
for good overall efficiency between the motor rpm, the tranny reduction and the 
prop pitch. When these are matched, it should be possible to 
achieve your theoretical hull-speed at or near your engine maximum RPM, at 
least in flat water and with an engine which is appropriate for 
your displacement.

I found Goeff at AB Marine (a Kiwi) to be an excellent source of information on 
all of the above.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
 
  

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List folding prop for C&C 40



That sounds woefullyunderpowered.  That boat should have a 37 – 40 HP engine in 
it. Anyways. Which might explain why it won’t develop full RPM’s
Also need to know what yourreduction is.  Then, after everyone chips in and 
ballparks a prop size& pitch,  you will still need to get the recommendation of 
the Prop vendor– that way, when it is not exactly right, they will, if they 
arereputable, take it back and resize it.
 
Unless you are buying one from athird party, in which case hopefully someone 
with an identical boat, engine andreduction can fill you in.  I suppose that is 
what you were looking forbefore I went and shot off my mouth. ;^ )
 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 

 

From: CnC-List[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of George Cone
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 4:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List folding prop for C&C 40

 
I am considering adding a folding prop for the boat andwanted to know if anyone 
had information on the recommended size of thepropeller and what the size of 
the shaft might be. The boat is a 1981 with the27 hp – yanmar 3HM- the engine 
is rated for 3200 rpm, but normally willonly go to 2600rpm. 
Thanks 
 
George A Cone
gc...@alpinesy.com
 
 


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Re: Stus-List C&C 40, et al, cruising modifications

[cenelson]

By 1993, (when I ordered my 36 XL/kcb), the standard fuel tank on this 
racer/cruiser was 48 gallons and there were 2 approximately 40 gallon water 
tanks under the settees. I added another water tank under the V-berth as an 
option of about 60 gallons. Of course, with all this tankage, there is little 
room to store anything--compromises, compromises!

Since I mostly use the boat for club racing, the water tanks remain empty, 
although I keep the fuel tank at least 1/2 full all the time.

I always tell my crew, I would trust the boat to take me wherever I wanted but 
I sure couldn't take much gear with me!

Charlie Nelson
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Feb 4, 2014 11:08 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40, et al, cruising modifications



18 gallons of fuel and 70 of water here. I think EVERY non-Landfall C&C is 
short on tankage and I have the “extra” water tank too.
 

Joe Della Barba

C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40, et al, cruising modifications

 
While the 40 is a beautiful boat, I’m surprised at the small tankage.  My LF38 
came stock with 105 gals of water, 35 of fuel, and a 35 gal holding tank.  
Nothing like the CSY44 (with 400 gals of water and 200 of fuel…), but much more 
than most C&C’s.  Seems like you have to work pretty hard to get tankage up to 
spec for longer distance cruising.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Feb 4, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:






Skip is also a very experienced offshore sailor.

I like a lot of what he did on Saralane, but most I wouldn't bother with on my 
boat. I like to windows the way they are, and cutting open the transom and 
bridgedeck is more of a project than I want to tackle; it would take too much 
out of my sailing time. The installation of the holding atnk behind the head 
with a gravity feed to empty is the one thing that I can see doing. I also like 
the way he painted the interior. I like the Herreshoff look. And it lightens up 
the interior. I would add dorades and a tent over the forehatch. I might 
convert the forward ports to opening, and, as Dave mentioned, install a few 
fans.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine

 


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Stus-List 30A to 50A adaptors and air conditioners

[cenelson]

Hello all;

My boat is set up with the common 30A plug/cord and this works for almost all 
the local marinas. 

However, occasionally I need to go into a slip that has only a 50A service. 
Sometimes the marina can
supply a 'pigtail' that goes from the 50A plug to 2-30 A female plugs so I can 
use that set-up as well.

Of course sometimes I am out of luck since they have no 'loaner' pigtails.

Thought I would buy an adaptor that would have a female 30A receptacle and a 
50A male plug.

These are available on-line or West Marine but it appears that there are 2 
different 50A male plugs,
one for 125V service and another for 125/250V service and they are not 
interchangeable--the male plugs have
different 'teeth' arrangements. 

My question is what is the most likely male plug that I should have on whatever 
I buy--the 50A/125V or the 50A/125/250V?

Even the on-line versions are not inexpensive so I would like to buy the 
adaptor with the plug which is the 'most common" 50A male.

Or is this marina dependent?

On the air conditioner topic, I have a 16K BTU unit from Dometic which has 
worked like a champ for the past 4-5 years.
Like many C&Cs, room for duct work is somewhere between slim and none. Given 
the rather tight quarters on our racer/cruisers,
I gave up on ducts and plumbed the single inlet through the shower wall blowing 
into the main cabin thru the open
head door with a single return in the aft cabin right next to the unit.

For my use (after race cool downs, occasional overnights on the boat at a 
marina, this 'duct-less' set-up works fine.

YMMV, depending on how you use the boat of course.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb



cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

[cenelson]

A couple of 5 gallon cans of water suspended from the end of a 
whisker/spinnaker pole might be enough to give you the heel you need (if you 
are rigged for either).
This could easily be tested before you leave the dock.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Kim Brown 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:01 pm
Subject: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height


Joel 

took a 2x4 and extended it from deck top at mast base toward dock; using
level to insure 2x4 level with deck and measured between water and bottom of
2x4 = 56"

went up the mast (love atn climbers) extended dummy end of 100' reel tape to
spouse at mast base below= 44' 3" 

Measured from Mast top to tip of Bird spike on Windex=23"

So 56" + 531" + 23" + 610"/12 = 50.83 

Tried to remove windex to pick up a foot (Anemometer is 10" over mast top)
but corroded in place for the moment.

Know I can be tipped but it is $200 a time. IF I can apply that $400 to
drinking in Bahamas so much the better.  Bridge clearance today is 50.7; was
50.83 yesterday  (army corps reports daily) so- If I am accurate I can
currently make it subject to my windex being abused. ($45 windex v. $200
tipping fee). If the anemometer, masthead light and masthead itself are at
risk the economic equation shifts.  While I have carpentered this by
'measuring twice' it just is about a foot shorter than what I was expecting
based on C&C specs. SO was trying to confirm if anyone else had seen that
sort of variance to increase my comfort level with my measurements. Probably
being too type A.
Thanks,

Kim
TrustMe!!! 35-3







Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 21:51:12 -0400
From: Joel Aronson 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height
Message-ID: <680067004522011960@unknownmsgid>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

How did you measure?

Joel
Sent from my iPad



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Re: Stus-List non-skid paint

[cenelson]

Had a yard do my almost all meydeck with Kiwi this spring--looks great and the 
grip was enhanced forward of the mast for spinnaker work,eased somewhat aft for 
sitting, by the rolling technique.

Yard guys had not worked with it before but liked it--plus it will go over 
whatever is there now without much if any surface preparation. I probably could 
have done the job myself and would
certainly touch it up in the future should it need it.

It is pretty rough on bare knees now in the cockpit but I expect it to smooth 
out somewhat with use. My guess is that it is easier to make Kiwi aggressive 
than to make it less so--its all in the roller and the rolling technique.

So far, so good.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Gary Nylander 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 9:18 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List non-skid paint



Penniless had a mat on the cockpit sole when I bought her. It was sticky but 
very hard on the knees when digging items out of the lazerettes or doing any 
work - and a bit ugly.
 
I took it out and there is still some evidence of it nearly 20 years later. 
Just a light image.
 
Two friends have applied KiwiGrip to their decks. A Cal 40 and a J-24. Both are 
happy - the traction is based on how you apply it - it comes with a funny 
looking grippy roller and if you work it hard you get some good spikes - maybe 
a little too much grip. I can report on the grippyness of the J-24 tomorrow, we 
sail it tonight. The Cal 40 is splashing today after a 2+ year refit.
 
So far, the Kiwi seems to be a good answer, despite what PS says about it - and 
comparing it to a mat which will tear the skin off your kneecaps is a bit of a 
stretch.
 
Gary






- Original Message - 
From: Josh Muckley 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List non-skid paint


I've heard good things about kiwi grip.  Anybody try it?  That publication that 
some listers dislike with the initials PS gave kiwi grip third place for 
traction.  If I remember right the ratings were in degrees of incline.  Kiwi 
got 45. This was below two adhesive mat type products that got 50+.  I lean 
away from the mats because I fear how they will wear and what will be left 
behind when they are gone.
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk


-- 
When security matters.
http://www.secure-my-email.com
On May 30, 2013 9:26 PM, "Joel Aronson"  wrote:

I want to paint the cockpit sole with non-skid paint.  The original
fiberglass is fine at 15 degrees of heel, not so grippy at 25 degrees!
 I'd like the color to come as close to the original "almost white" as
possible.  Recommendations?  Tips?

Joel
Sent from my iPad

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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 backing help

[cenelson]

Lots of good advice from many with lots of experience and knowledge. Under the 
conditions you describe, it is probably fair to say that every time you dock 
you will find very different conditions between wind and current.

IMHO the simple solution is (1) LOTS of practice in open water so you can get a 
feel for how your boat responds in reverse as a function of its speed, no 
matter the cause--prop walk, wash, etc. etc.

Once you are "at one with the boat in reverse", (2) KNOW the wind direction at 
or very near your slip by looking at the wind vanes of the boats tied up near 
your slip. You must also KNOW the current direction and speed--can't help you 
much here
as there are neither in my neck of the woods.

(3) Start your approach to the slip from a distance far enough away that you 
have the boat in moving in reverse (couple of knots) and then move the 
transmission to neutral and coast under rudder control. Keep speed up by 
engaging the transmission for short bursts to maintain enough speed to have the 
rudder controlling the boat direction, but mostly keep it in neutral.

The speed you need may be more than you would like but if you move too slow, 
the wind and/or current will take over--it can take pretty big kahunas to do 
this but speed is absolutely necessary for the rudder to work

(4) If you get the stern more or less in the slip (between drifting and 
powering in reverse), you can stop the boat quickly with a switch to forward 
and a burst of throttle. Grabbing a stern line will fix your stern--and if you 
are alone, you will have
to get to the bow to secure it--although others may have betters solutions here.

If all h...breaks loose as you come in and you can manage it safely regarding 
other traffic, put the boat in forward and get out to a distance from the slip 
and repeat beginning at (3) above.

Slow speed maneuvers near a slip between reverse and forward are difficult in 
calm wind and waters. In your situation, you need reverse speed and rudder 
control--neither of which is possible in close quarters unless they are gained 
in relatively open waters away from the slip.

Practice, practice, practice,...and good luck--I have always put my boat in 
stern first, beginning with my Pearson 28 offset folding prop, thru my current 
boat with a Max-Prop and now a folding Gori.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


 

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Curtis 
To: CnC-List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:25 am
Subject: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 backing help


As a new sailboat owner and  no experance backing.
can I get some insite as to how to back one of these boat into a slip.

I am on a inside finger dock in the AICW Is South carolina.
We have 8 foot tides and a 2 knot current at times. My bow faces the
north and we have a predomanently southerl wind 4-12 knots.
Any help would be great.

-- 
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to
change; the realist adjusts the sails.”

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Re: Stus-List MAST STEP MATERIAL

[cenelson]

If you really want to use wood, and can find it, live oak is probably the best 
wood for strength. It was highly sought after for knees, etc. of the wooden 
sailing ships of the 1700-1800s.



Live oak was widely used in early American butt shipbuilding. Because of the 
trees' short height and low-hanging branches, lumber from live oak was 
specifically used to make curved structural members of the hull, such as knee 
braces (single-piece, inverted L-shaped braces that spring inward from the side 
and support a ship's deck). In such cuts of lumber, the line of the grain would 
fall perpendicularly to lines of stress, creating structures of exceptional 
strength. Live oaks were not generally used for planking because the curved and 
often convoluted shape of the tree did not lend itself to be milled to planking 
of any length. Red oak or white oak was generally used for planking on vessels, 
as those trees tended to grow straight and tall and thus would yield straight 
trunk sections of length suitable for milling into plank lengths.
Live oak was largely logged out in Europe by the latter half of the 19th 
century, and was similarly sought after and exported from the United States 
until iron- and steel-hulled commercial vessel construction became the standard 
early in the 20th century. Live oak lumber is rarely used for furniture due to 
warping and twisting while drying.
It continues to be used occasionally when available in shipbuilding, as well as 
for tool handles for its strength, energy absorption, and density, but modern 
composites are often substituted with good effect. Dry southern live oak lumber 
has a specific gravity of 0.88, among the highest of North American hardwoods


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Alex Giannelia 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:15 am
Subject: Stus-List MAST STEP MATERIAL


White Oak is highly rot resistant, not like teak, but similar to mahogany.  Red 
ak gets fungus in it and goes pretty quickly if soaked and should be avoided on 
oat parts unless somewhere unlikely to get wet.
My .02 Cdn worth.
ALEX GIANNELIA
CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED
N THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006
oronto Ontario
-Original Message-
rom: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
nc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
ent: August 7, 2013 9:38 AM
o: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
ubject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 91, Issue 19
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oday's Topics:
   1. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Ed Dooley)
  2. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Sylvain Laplante)
  3. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Sylvain Laplante)
  4. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Colin Kilgour)
  5. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Paul Baker)
  6. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Steve Thomas)
  7. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Della Barba, Joe)
  8. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Stevan Plavsa)
  9. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Joel Aronson)

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Re: Stus-List MAST STEP MATERIAL

[cenelson]

The USS Constitution was built with pine and oak, including "live oak". Her 21 
inch thick wooden hull helped her defeat 5 British ships in the War of 1812! 
 
 
The name Constitution was selected by President George Washington.[14] Her keel 
was laid down on 1 November 1794 at Edmund Hartt's shipyard in Boston, 
Massachusetts, under the supervision of Captain Samuel Nicholson and naval 
constructor Colonel George Claghorn.[15][16] Primary materials used in her 
construction consisted of pine and oak, including southern live oak, which was 
cut and milled near St. Simons, Georgia.[16] Constitution's hull was built 21 
inches (530 mm) thick and her length between perpendiculars was 175 ft (53 m), 
with a 204 ft (62 m) length overall and a width of 43 ft 6 in (13.26 m).[2][4] 
In total, 60 acres (24 ha) of trees were needed for her construction.

Presumably a mast step could be constructed with considerably less than 60 
acres of trees!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
North Carolina
 
 
cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Knowles Rich 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:51 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List MAST STEP MATERIAL



"Live oak". Do you have to plant it in the bilge and wait?


Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax


On 2013-08-07, at 12:36, cenel...@aol.com wrote:



If you really want to use wood, and can find it, live oak is probably the best 
wood for strength. It was highly sought after for knees, etc. of the wooden 
sailing ships of the 1700-1800s.

 
 
Live oak was widely used in early American butt shipbuilding. Because of the 
trees' short height and low-hanging branches, lumber from live oak was 
specifically used to make curved structural members of the hull, such as knee 
braces (single-piece, inverted L-shaped braces that spring inward from the side 
and support a ship's deck). In such cuts of lumber, the line of the grain would 
fall perpendicularly to lines of stress, creating structures of exceptional 
strength. Live oaks were not generally used for planking because the curved and 
often convoluted shape of the tree did not lend itself to be milled to planking 
of any length. Red oak or white oak was generally used for planking on vessels, 
as those trees tended to grow straight and tall and thus would yield straight 
trunk sections of length suitable for milling into plank lengths.
Live oak was largely logged out in Europe by the latter half of the 19th 
century, and was similarly sought after and exported from the United States 
until iron- and steel-hulled commercial vessel construction became the standard 
early in the 20th century. Live oak lumber is rarely used for furniture due to 
warping and twisting while drying.
It continues to be used occasionally when available in shipbuilding, as well as 
for tool handles for its strength, energy absorption, and density, but modern 
composites are often substituted with good effect. Dry southern live oak lumber 
has a specific gravity of 0.88, among the highest of North American hardwoods
 
 
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Alex Giannelia 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:15 am
Subject: Stus-List MAST STEP MATERIAL


White Oak is highly rot resistant, not like teak, but similar to mahogany.  Red 
ak gets fungus in it and goes pretty quickly if soaked and should be avoided on 
oat parts unless somewhere unlikely to get wet.
My .02 Cdn worth.
ALEX GIANNELIA
CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED
N THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006
oronto Ontario
-Original Message-
rom: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
nc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
ent: August 7, 2013 9:38 AM
o: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
ubject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 91, Issue 19
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
han "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."

oday's Topics:
   1. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Ed Dooley)
  2. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Sylvain Laplante)
  3. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Sylvain Laplante)
  4. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Colin Kilgour)
  5. Re:  painting/varnishing wooder oars (Paul Baker)
  6. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Steve Thomas)
  7. Re:  C&C 30 mast step yet again (Della Barba, Joe)
  8. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Stevan Plavsa)
  9. Re:  Waste fitting stuck (Joel Aronson)

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Re: Stus-List BOR

[cenelson]

Can someone please enlighten the dim-witted/not in-the-know/clueless/etc. list 
members WTH it the BOR?

Charlie Nelson
36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Morgenstern, Keith E CIV SEA 08 NR 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 1:13 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List BOR


Hm.
2 C&C 35 skippers on the same boat...and maybe 3...
There's a joke in here somewhere.
Green with envy, 
eith Morgenstern
&C 35-3 cb
eyond the Sea
-Original Message-
rom: Joel Aronson [mailto:joel.aron...@gmail.com] 
ent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 10:16 AM
o: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
ubject: Re: Stus-List BOR
Joe,
I am.  Jake is aboard. Care to join us?
Joel
5/3
he Office
nnapolis

n Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Della Barba, Joe
joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov> wrote:

Is someone on the list doing the 2014 BOR? Can't recall and I
hink someone is.
 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina

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- 
oel 
01 541 8551 
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Re: Stus-List Smile or sump.

[cenelson]

I agree that it definitely needs investigated. 


OTOH, the crack may be in the overlaying fiberglass/gelcoat/paint, assuming 
there is some on your keel--can't see from the picture.


The leading edge of my centerboard trunk is covered with glass/paint and it has 
been removed several times to get to the centerboard pin,
which is under the glass and held in place with 2 SS plates which must be 
accessed (via removing the fiberglass) before they can be 
removed so that the pin can be removed to drop the board.


If the crack is definitely in the lead, it needs fixed and that would likely be 
expensive.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


 


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Derek Leck 
To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2013 2:39 pm
Subject: Stus-List Smile or sump.


Here is best picture I have of my crack from last year.



: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :

Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299

Get Involved!
http://www.metzgers.com/social-media

 
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Re: Stus-List Folding Prop

[cenelson]

Suggest a geared 2-blade so that the blades move together whether so that when 
folded, they both fold.

I changed to a folder 2 years ago and ended up with a Gori racing prop since 
its resistance to flow when sailing
was basically indistinguishable from the resistance of the hull alone. They 
have other 2 blade folding models that
are less expensive.

Plus there are several other manufacturers of 2 blade folding props--can't 
recall their names at present.

Recommend talking to Geoff at AB marine for details on prop diameter, etc. 
since these depend on the room available, the engine and transmission ratios, 
etc.

One of the goals is to increase the diameter as much as practicable so that the 
blade area of the 2 blade is a maximum
given the space available and the pitch is matched to the engine cruising RPM 
and transmission ratio. Each of these (and probably other parameters I've 
forgotten)
influence the prop size/pitch you need.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom



cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: sam.c.salter 
To: CnC 
Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 3:54 pm
Subject: Stus-List Folding Prop


  
‎My 26 currently has a 12" x 8" RH, 3 blade, fixed prop. 7/8" shaft. (2GM20F - 
13 1/2 hp)
It's getting to the stage where I should start looking for a folding or 
feathering prop.


What do I need!
I've got room for up to about 14".
I'm on a mooring, so reverseing is not a big issue. 
sam :-) 403-617-6280


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Stus-List New sheets/halyards

[cenelson]

My crew has convinced me that I need to replace my regular sheets and 
halyards--some have been spliced/end for ended, etc. and its been probably 5+ 
years that they have been in use. For convenience, I like to use the same line 
and color for my jib and main halyards and the jib sheets. The main sheet is 
probably OK but I think it is just something like Sta-Set.


I need something which will work on the Lewmar clutches on my C&C 36 XL/kcb 
Water Phantom so in spite of the increased strength of modern lines, I doubt I 
can go below 3/8" or 5/16" and still have the clutches usable.


I thought I would ask the list for its opinion--I am thinking of something 
medium tech/price for club racing locally and of buying an entire spool of 
whatever I get if it saves me some money on $/foot.


I have used the usual tricks to extend the life (end for ended, taken the 
covers off, used messenger lines to keep the exposed core hidden in the 
mast/boom, etc.) so what I am looking for is a good deal on some good, not 
professional, low stretch line. I now use (I am pretty sure) Endura Braid from 
NER and in spite of its 11,000 lbs breaking strength, I have had it break at 
least twice in use--probably because it had been worn at some points when it 
was in use. This line also 'hockles' easily and the cover is a little slippery.


Of course it should have a reasonable 'hand' as well.


Suggestions of line type and vendors are welcome. 


Thanks,


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb





cenel...@aol.com

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Stus-List Sky-liners

[cenelson]

My 1995 36 XL/kcb has a 'sky liner' also--and it has a few leaks or at least 
the water gets around it into the companionway/cabin.

AFAIK, it looks like I need to remove the entire hatch cover 'cover'/'surround' 
to be able to remove and re bed/clean-up/replace this 'smoked' Lexan/acrylic 
sheet. 

Has any lister found an easier way to do this?--the hatch cover 'cover' is a 
massive, one-piece fiberglass piece that would be a pain to remove and replace 
after
the sky liner was re bedded, etc. 

Or do I have to suck it up and remove the entire frame?

BTW, I have already replaced the sliding piece of the hatch cover after it 
cracked years ago.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb 


cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List C&C 34

[cenelson]

In his second year of sailing!! yikes, I'd be more concerned about his 
capabilities offshore than whether the boat has the capabilities.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Brent Driedger 
To: C&C List Canada 
Sent: Fri, Aug 30, 2013 10:26 pm
Subject: Stus-List C&C 34


Good evening.  
One of my crew has made an offer to purchase a C&C 34 with a centreboard. I'm 
guessing a very early 80s variety. I'm really unfamiliar with these boats. This 
guy is very enthusiastic about cruising, in his 2nd  year of sailing and spent 
his first winter doing 7/10 of the great loop solo in a Paceship 26.
His latest project is to take this C&C 34 across the Atlantic to Europe. This 
wouldn't be my first choice of boat for deep ocean conquests but I'm interested 
to know the opinions from owners etc. on how worthy a 34 cb is as a blue water 
solo boat. Am I under estimating its capabilities or should I provide him with 
caution.  

Cheers
Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List 1990s C&C 36 XL/kcb

[cenelson]

I am trying to locate drawings that give details on the keel/centerboard 
dimensions for my 1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb.

So far the Kingston Maritime Museum has not been able to find any and neither 
does South Shore Yachts. 

If someone on the list has them for this model or the centerboard 
trunk/centerboard , I would be glad to pay to have them copied
and mailed.

OTOH, if a lister has another source of these drawings, I would appreciate a 
link to them.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C XL/kcb





cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List bottom cleaning

[cenelson]

I have mine done before every race (about every 2 weeks) in the Neuse River in 
North Carolina.


On a contract for regular cleaning, I am charged $1.50 per minute of dive + 
prep time or about $40 each time.


Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Chuck S 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 6:00 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List bottom cleaning



Hookah compressor, w hose and regulator cost me $850 brand new.  You can buy 
cheaper ones on Ebay, I'm sure.  We clean our own bottom before each race and 
change zincs, and lend the system to others, it's proven a very good investment.


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


From: "Ed Dooley" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:53:00 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List self-cleaning shaft

My marina here on Lake Champlain charges $4/foot.
Ed


From: Jack Brennan 
Down here in Florida, you really need to have the bottom done every month, even 
after a haulout and repaint. The algae growth is amazing. (The Tampa Bay area 
bans the sale of fertilizer during the summer to protect against major blooms.)
 
So the divers concentrate on a volume business. They try to get a couple of 
dozen boats in one location – they often offer a deal at large marinas – then 
go right down the line and get them all done at once. On a monthly contract, a 
boat won’t accumulate that much growth, so it takes about 30 minutes on a 
30-foot boat.
 
I suspect you folks are partly paying for drive time. Plus, there are a million 
divers here who love to be in the water all of the time, so there is a good 
deal of competition.
 
 
From: Josh Muckley   

$35 is an amazing price, especially in a warm climate where the growth is 
guaranteed to be heavier.  I've heard of others in the Solomons area getting a 
recurrent contract price of $100 per month for biweekly cleanings.  Comes down 
to how often you think it needs done and how good your paint is.

Josh

On Sep 3, 2013 10:18 AM, "Jack Brennan"  wrote:

 $35 for a monthly cleaning on a 30-footer in St. Petersburg, Fl. I paid  $45 
in Pompano Beach, Fl.
 
 At those prices, there’s no way I would ever jump overboard and do it  myself.


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Re: Stus-List Block Island 2015

[cenelson]

I have thought about chartering a local boat for BIRW (hopefully a C&C!). Will 
see what my crew thinks--time permitting I could bring Water Phantom up 'north' 
from North Carolina but
that's a '..fur piece..." to move her.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Oriental/New Bern, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Edd Schillay 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Sep 13, 2013 11:33 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Block Island 2015


Andy,


Love the idea. If I can get another two or three of my crew to commit, we will 
be there. 





All the best,


Edd




Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website


On Sep 13, 2013, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:





Not that I believe in planning ahead or anything, but I just want to broach an 
idea to the group on the east coast that formed in my head yesterday while 
talking to Dave off Corsair and Adam off Double Black, who also have C&C 40s.


Last June, with Peregrine still new to me, I entered the Storm Trysail Club's 
Block Island Race Week. Because we were sailing "navigator's courses" ie one 
race a day around government marks, the entry fee was half. And because we were 
sailing non-spinnaker, I didn't have to house a ton of crew. In fact, we stayed 
aboard Peregrine and another cruising boat rafted next to us, belonging to one 
of my crew. This kept costs down and was a lot of fun. There was plenty of room 
to anchor out in the harbor. We didn't take the racing too seriously and had a 
tremendous time. And with the guys chipping in for food and booze, it didn't 
break the bank.


Why don't we try to get as many C&Cs there for the next event? We can even do 
separate, additional prizes for the C&Cs in our class. The regatta management 
is excellent, the tent parties terrific, the competition keen, but not 
cutthroat, and the courses fun and long enough--but not so long they get 
boring. For sails, I used a 10 year old composite #1, my blown-out foam-luff 
#2, a dacron #3 and the dacron main that I used for cruising all summer, so 
this regatta can be approached in a casual way.


Thoughts? Suggestions? I know the organizers will be pretty flexible in order 
to get as many C&Cs on the line as possible.


Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine





-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260 

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Re: Stus-List 6 part mainsheet and also traveller location

[cenelson]

I recently changed my mainsheet purchase to this arrangement with my traveller located just in front of the binnacle spanning the seats.


 


Originally the factory had a 6:1 coarse on the sheet with a an 8:1 'doubler' within the boom which I now use for the outhaul.


 


Charlie Nelson


Water Phantom


C&C 36 XL/kcb




cenel...@aol.com





-Original Message-
From: Ron Casciato 
To: kenheaton ; cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:12 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List 6 part mainsheet and also traveller location











Ken:  I have the same arrangement on my 38MKII, but I added a 4:1 lighter system in the original line up to the becket of the 6:1 system.  You can find this outline in Harken’s catalogue in the mainsheet drawings.  My system alleviates the rope clutches and winch and allows easy trim and release since the final system is now 24:1.  I think I’m now at 3/8” line for the fine trim arrangement an 7/16” for the mainsheet system.


 


Pics available if interested no additional deck hardware required……….


 


Best


 


Ron C.


Impromptu


C&C 38MKIIC…. ‘77


 









From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 12:13 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List 6 part mainsheet and also traveller location



 




The system David described below is what we have been using for our mainsheet.  Our traveller is in the cockpit on the bridgedeck behind the companionway.  It is double ended with one end running to the rope clutches and winch on the cabintop.  The other end goes to a 6:1 at the traveller.  It works for us.




 





The boat seems to have been built with a double ended system but with one end terminating in a fine tune system like the one Michael Clow shows above, except the fine tune blocks and line were hidden inside the boom.  It was changed to the system we have now by a previous owner.





 





Ken H.




 




On 2 October 2013 21:58, David Knecht  wrote:




Update on my mainsheet rig.  I have altered the arrangement to something I think is dramatically better.  I found that the 6:1 was not sufficient in higher winds, which we have had alot of lately (not complaining). Not only could I not sheet in tight enough, I could not release it from the load on the cam.   I thought I could run the sheet to a coachtop winch to increase power when needed, but the downward angle does not work as the sheet rides up on the winch.  The solution was simple: a hybrid of the new triple and the old system.   I re-rigged the old blocks so that I now have a double ended arrangement.  I don't have the end stopped at the becket on the triple.  I now have the line running 6:1 through the triple/cam on the traveller, then forward along the boom to the block on the mast, down to the deck and back to the clutch as it used to be.  In lighter winds, I use the cam on the 6:1 triple block to control.  In heavier winds I use the clutch end and run it to one of the winches on the coachroof.  Worked great last weekend. The only problem is that the 50' mainsheet I bought is not really long enough.  Dave






 






 





 








David Knecht





Aries





1990 C&C 34+





New London, CT









 





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Re: Stus-List Standing height in C & C 40 1979

[cenelson]

My 1995 36 XL also has standing headroom for 6' 2" within the main and forward 
cabins at least.

Charlie Nelson


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Standing height in C & C 40 1979



My father at 6'3" bought a C&C36 in 1981 because it had standing headroom for 
him
 
That may not be well over 6 feet but is certainly a great amount of headroom on 
a boat


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Standing height in C & C 40 1979



Anders -- if you're well over six feet (180cm) tall, about the only boat C&C 
built that will have enough headroom for you is the Landfall 39. 


Is there a C&C40 in or near Denmark that you're looking at purchasing?






Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI






On Oct 4, 2013, at 7:42 AM, and...@medisoft.dk wrote:



LOL - Ok guys - I'm tall :-)
/Anders
djhaug...@juno.com skrev den 04.10.2013 14:04:

OMG that brought back some memories!!!  LMAO

- Original Message --
rom: Wally Bryant 
o: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Standing height in  C & C 40 1979
ate: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 01:24:48 +
Anders, maybe you should lay down and munch on some chocolate chip 
ookies and milk.

 Anders Brandt wrote:
Does anybody know what the standing height in the salon near the stove is in a 
C & C 40 1979 ? I'm pretty high, so it matters a little:-)





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Re: Stus-List 34 in heavy air

[cenelson]

Some instrument systems will give you VMG to windward via the wind 
direction/speed and boat heading/speed from the knotmeter. For a true W-L 
course, VMG can then be used both upwind and down. IMHO this parameter is more 
important than any other 'velocity'. Of course one must still keep their head 
'out of the boat' and pay attention to a bunch of other issues, many of which
can be more important!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Neuse River, NC






cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: OldSteveH 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Oct 8, 2013 8:35 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List 34 in heavy air


Ok, I get it, the outhauler will work - thanks!
 was thinking snatchblock to the toerail because that's how we sheeted the
eadsail on the old 24.
Thanks for all posts, and reminders about leeway.
e do look at COG, SOG etc. during the race, VMG not so much but will start
o watch it closer to fine tune heavy air sail trimming strategy.
Im an old school racer from 20 years ago where we didn't have all that data
vailable, and just been racing again last 2 summers)
oing forward will try to manage heel`better, although this boat seems to
ike the range of 15-25 degrees.
Cheers,
Steve Hood
/V Diamond Girl
&C 34
ions Head ON


--
Message: 10
ate: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 19:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
rom: "Dennis C." 
o: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
ubject: Stus-List 34 in heavy air
essage-ID:
<1381199159.52619.yahoomail...@web121904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve,
Moving a lead outboard both opens the slot and increases the sheeting
ngle.? That does 2 things, the boat will stand up a bit more due to the
ncreased sheeting angle and more air can squeeze through the slot.? The end
esult is your VMG will probably increase.
It's important to focus on VMG in heavy air.? Simply looking at boat speed
sn't enough.? You might think you have great boat speed but if you're being
arried sideways because your keel isn't working, then you're losing ground.

lso, instead of actually moving the lead to the toe rail, rig an
uthauler.? Put a snatch block on the rail, run a line with a snapshackle to
he clew of the genoa or around the sheet near the clew and carry the other
nd to a winch.? You can play the outhauler and sheet in the puffs and
ulls.
Dennis C.
ouche' 35-1 #83
andeville, LA



 From: OldSteveH 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 93, Issue 15
 

That's a great list Dennis.? I do most of those things but forgot about 
moving the genoa sheet aft, that's a good one.
The other thing I do which is not on your list is to feather off the 
main and carry some luff when we're overpowered, re-trimming as 
opportunity allows. From? now on I will ease the genoa car back first.

Per other comment about heel the 34 seems to be comfortable carrying 20 
degrees of heel and still point and keep up her speed. Guestimating the 
performance at 25 to be similar to 15, I have generally decided to reef 
when I am constantly over 25 and there are no more sail trim 
adjustments available.

Last Sat we were able to keep the #1 up in 20 knots true (25-26 apparent).
I'm certain we could not have placed as well without it. BTW only 4 
aboard, not much railmeat to help out!

Dennis, I have an inboard track and also a coach roof track for the #3.
I'm not seeing what advantage leading the #1 from the toerail will give 
except to limit how close the sail can be sheeted, but also taking away 
my ability to adjust the car position.

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON

BTW DG now has a facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Diamond-Girl/512052355514029




--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 11:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Dennis C." 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 34 heavy weather performance
Message-ID:
??? <1381169919.68075.yahoomail...@web121903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve,

Where is your genoa lead?? Inside track or toerail?

Try these adjustments in order as wind builds.


??? 1. Raise traveler and ease mainsheet to twist off top of main ??? 
2. Move genoa lead aft to twist off top of headsail ??? 3. Reef main 
1st reef, ??? 4. Move genoa lead outboard ??? 5. 2nd reef in main ??? 
6. Change down headsail Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA





>
> From: OldSteveH 
>To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:42 AM
>Subject: Stus-List C&C 34 heavy weather performance
> 
>
>Even though this has been talked about before I am curious to hear about
>others experiences.
>
>I am trying to determine (through trial and error, accent on error) when
>this boat - which is known for its preference to light air - can carry
ore
>sail and when it cannot.
>
>3 weeks ago on a windy day club race we decided on our #3 since DG does
ot
>have a 

Re: Stus-List Racing sail inventory - thoughts

[cenelson]

I second Dennis's optimum inventory--especially for the mostly light air NC 
sounds:

~2-6 true, light #1, light air main

~ 6-15 true, AP #1, AP main

~15-20 true, AP#1, reefed AP main

~20-30, blade/#3, reefed AP main

> 30, stay at dock!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Neuse River, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2013 2:34 pm
Subject: Stus-List Racing sail inventory - thoughts


Sitting on the pier, sunny, mid 70's, debating whether to go for a sail.  In 
the 
eantime, some thoughts on racing sails given the recent 34 sail discussion. 
When I bought Touché the #1 was a 170, #2 a 155, #3 a 125.  The 170 carried a 3 
econd hit. After a distance race where we flew the chute 3/4 of the race, I 
itched the 170 and the penalty. 
OK,   What's on Touché now?  We run a 3 headsail (kinda) program.  Our #1 is a 
ylar/Kevlar 155 which we carry to 10-12 true. Next is the AP1 which is an old 
55 which has had a few inches cut out of the leech. We use it to 15-16 true. 
ext is the #2, a 125.  We carry it from 13-17 true. The #3 is a 95% blade which 
e throw up around 17 true.   What? That's 4 sails!  We rarely put the #1 and 
he AP1 on the boat at the same time. 
Now, having said all that, what would I rather have given more racing 
xperience?  Well, here's what I feel is an optimum inventory for Touché.
#1 light 155 good to 10-12 true
1+ heavy 150 or 145 good to 15-17 true
3 95-110 blade. 
A racing friend once told me "you never change down to the #2.  You always drop 
o the blade".  You know, I think he's right about 95% of the time .  Hence my 
nventory above. No true #2. 
Maybe I'll go for a sail now. :)
Dennis C.
ouché 35-1 #83
andeville, LA
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List Garmin NMEA2K Instruments

[cenelson]

I installed a Garmin 4 display system with their transducers (wind, speed and 
depth) last winter and it has worked well. It is hooked up to a Garman Chart 
Plotter (542?) which serves as one end of the 
backbone (and power source). Of course the hull transducers were not the same 
as my previous Navman stuff/crap so another set of hull 'holes' was 
required--now on my 3rd set!!!ARGHH

Thought about (and may still do) a wifi type multiplexer and use an ipad for 
the display but that is a future project.

Got the Garmin setup for ~$2000 and so far so good.

I think it is fully a NMEA2K system since everyting connects to the backbone  
with screw-type connectors. The backbone cable is about 30 ft.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2013 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Nexus NX2 Instruments


Bob -- what instruments are you replacing?  Speed/depth?  Wind?


If you want true NMEA2K displays, you only have a few choices; Raymarine i70 
(technically SeaTalkNG, but talks to NMEA2K), Garmin GMI10, Furuno FI50 (not 
certified NMEA2000, but will talk to NMEA2K) or Simrad IS40.  As far as I know, 
the Nexus systems still use a central "server" that all displays and 
transducers connect to (Nexus is now owned by Garmin).  A true NMEA2000 system 
would have all the displays and transducers connected to the NMEA2000 backbone.


Raymarine has a reasonably-priced way to do that using older non-NMEA2K 
transducers; it's the ITC-5, and will accept inputs from older Raymarine depth, 
speed, wind and rudder transducers, then put all that data into SeaTalkNG form 
(also readable by NMEA2K).  List is $265 (you can get for under $250).  Add a 
couple of i70 displays for $535 list ($460) and a SeaTalkNG cabling kit and 
you're done, assuming you have the transducers installed in the first place.


Simrad has a depth/speed/wind package with all transducers, backbone cabling 
and ONE IS40 display for a list of $1599 (you can get it for around $1200).  
Add another IS40 display for a list of $599 (around $450).


Furuno doen't have a very good track record so far with their NMEA2K 
instruments; you don't see too many around.  And Garmin has the display, but 
not so much for NMEA2K transducers.


Maybe others on the list have some comments on the Nexus systems; but that's 
NOT going to be a true NMEA2K system as far as the displays go.






Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI






On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Bob Hickson  wrote:


Over the winter, I will be shopping for a new instrument package to replace the 
old Data Marine units on my 29-2.
I would prefer to install an instrument system using the NMEA 2000 / NX2 
protocol.
Does anyone have experience (good or bad) with Nexus instruments
 
http://www.nexusmarine.se/
 
The new “race box” sounds interesting





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Stus-List Booze on board

[cenelson]

Type:  Gin (usually Tanqueray), bourbon (Wild Turkey), rum (crew dependent but 
usually large quantities of bottom shelf stuff!) and (it goes without saying) 
beer.

When:  Nothing before races, only food and 1 beer between races and, subject to 
travel involved, the 'hard stuff' (from 1 or 2 drinks if driving home to 
'riding bicycles off the dock' levels if staying overnight!).

 

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Centerboard models

[cenelson]

I am a little surprised that the cb model has the same PHRF as non-cb. At least 
with my 90s era  keel/cb vs the fin keel, we rate a higher. Further, in a 
reasonable breeze (>6-8 knots), we point with
all the go fast boats with the board down and good sails.

Downwind, we hold our own in such breezes by raising the board and are seldom 
rolled.

In light air, we suffer downwind dragging a keel/cb trunk about 12 inches thick 
thru the water! Upwind we also suffer, but the pain is less since at least we 
still point with the go fast boats (as we fall behind!).

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
1995



cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Joel Aronson 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Halyards


Harold,


I switched to all rope (VPC) using the same sheaves with no issues over 2 
seasons.  If weight were an issue I would go with Dyneema with a cover for the 
clutch.


The PHRF ratings are the same for the 2 models.  I've never sailed against a 
c/b model. (I need to race Chef Dave next year!) I would think that with the 
board down you would point well.  Maybe the main (like many of us) has lost its 
shape over the years?  


Joel
35/3 1983
Annapolis




On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 2:27 PM, patricia barkley-higginbottom 
 wrote:



Have wire to rope halyards exclusively on my 35-3 1986 . What are the 
disadvantages, since it seems most people , when they have to , change to rope 
of various types. One I can think of is end to ending when there is wear, and 
also less weight aloft, although how much difference that makes on a relatively 
heavy boat I dont know. I club race white sail and will have to change fairly 
soon because of wear at the jammers and beginnings of fraying of the wire. I 
would tend to go with wire to rope again partly because of the type of sheaves 
presently employed so need a strong reason to change.
While I am on the site, anyone with a 35-3 full keel who races against a 35-3 
with keel centreboard have any idea of performance comparisons between them. My 
boat is a centre board version. We do well enough, feel that we do not point as 
high as other boats in our PHRF fleet especially in heavier air, no other 35-3s 
in that fleet, but we run well and often overhaul boats that may have got to 
the windward mark before us.
Harold
Celtic Spirit
35-3 1986
 
 


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Joel 
301 541 8551

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Re: Stus-List Now Boat Names

[cenelson]

My centerboard is similar if not identical to those on the 37s--I can't prove 
it but I think its design was copied from the 37s--I don't think an entire new 
trunk/board was designed for the
34/36 of which mine is hull #77.

That said, be sure that the entire cable is inspected during your haul out. 
Without removing the pennant stop on the cabin top, this is impossible since 
this stop prevents the board from
going further down than maximum and at this maximum, it is virtually impossible 
to inspect the cable except by feeling the very end of it near the board via 
the aft end of the trunk. If the cable
is worn somewhere else (besides on what can be seen on the cabin top), it will 
never be found unless the floor boards are removed and the sheaves inspected 
where the cable passes over them while moving the board between the maximum up 
and down positions. This is now my drill during my annual haul-outs.

Further, if you do have a catastrophic failure and the board falls and is 
stopped by the forward part of the trunk, stop sailing immediately and slowly 
motor back to port.

The athwartship pressure on the board when sailing is taken up by the sides of 
the trunk--when it is fully dropped (cable loss), it has NO support from the 
trunk and is hanging
only by the pin. If you continue sailing with the board extended this way, you 
will rip it out of the boat if it is still there. If the board is gone, 
motor/sail home and glass the slot over or rebuild/install a new board!

The latter happened once to me and I built another board. The former happened 
once but while the new board was down so only the pennant needed replaced.

Such are, as you know, the vagaries of owning a centerboard boat. OTOH, with a 
4.5 ft. draft with the board up. I can get into virtually any marina on the NC 
coast/sounds and
still go to weather with the fin keels. Downwind, as they say "...not so 
much..." with my relatively massive centerboard trunk with the board tucked up 
inside it.

Trade-offs, trade-offs, etc.,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 35 XL/kcb
1995





cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Joel Aronson 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Mar 7, 2014 11:02 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Now Boat Names


Edd,


I bet having the cable done when she's hauled is cheaper than the glass job.


I'd have trouble finding a lift that could accommodate 10 foot draft!  I had to 
wait 3 days for the right tide with 6.5 due to a pesky westerly wind blowing 
everything out of the river this fall.


Joel




On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Joel,


You’re right. The cable itself would not be a major expense. 


The hauling the boat 10 feet in the air, perhaps as an emergency 
short-haul, and doing the repairs while in a travel lift, dismantling what’s 
there, snaking a new wire through and everything else gets expensive. And if it 
breaks on its own, I’m looking a major out-of-pocket keel repair. 


I’m not so sure about the resale value part. A shoal-draft keel has its 
advantages, especially for cruising. And, a next owner would not need to 
continually inspect and possibly repair the cable.


Upwind performance is the biggie. But, in less than 10, I find the boat 
runs slower VMG than with the board up. And in Western LI Sound, we don’t get 
above 10 all that often. As I said — playing with the idea. 





All the best,


Edd




Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log





On Mar 7, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:


Edd,


I wouldn't think the cable (or Dyneema) would be a major expense.   You would 
hurt the resale value and upwind performance if you glassed it over.


Joel




On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Dwight,


Initially, I was very enthusiastic about owning a keel/centerboard 
model — better pointing upwind, less drag downwind. The process of lowering and 
raising the board is quiet and it’s great to have some control over how much 
you can have down there depending on wind strength — Then, I joined this list 
and heard some horror stories about the cable breaking and the board doing 
(uninsured) damage to the keel. 


So each year, I have my bottom cleaners lower the board and check the 
cable. So far, each year (8 years running), they have said it was fine, but I 
dread the day where I have to replace the cable ($$$). 


Now that I’m transitioning to a more cruising-oriented sailing 
lifestyle, I have been playing with the idea of just glassing it over, forcing 
it to always remain in the up position and never having to inspect or maintain 
the cable again. 





All the best,


Edd




Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log









___

Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning

[cenelson]

I am sure this has been discussed before, when I wasn't paying attention!

I need recommendations for an ipad/phone app for route planning at home. My 
Garmin 540 works fine on the boat but
I'd like to plan a route in my family room for an upcoming trip to Ocracoke 
from Oriental NC.

The distance is ~ 30-35 nm and there are plenty of government marks to use--I 
just want to try this
without using the paper charts, which are also on the boat!.

I have been to "...this one particular harbor..." before so I have some local 
knowledge.

Just need some hints on which app (or apps) to go with.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom




cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning

[cenelson]

Thanks to all for the advice about route planning. It turns out that I had a 
copy of Mapsource that had been used for a Caribbean trip several years ago. 
Your comments started me on
a search for it.

If I understand the listers correctly, I should be able to use it for route 
planning on my computer and then transfer the routes to my Garmin 540 on board 
via
a standard SD card. Since I had only used it once, I was able to get a code 
from Garmin to use it again (the last time) for no charge. They want more money 
for opening it again!
(Sounds a little old-fashioned by today's standards IMHO).

Ironically, their web-site simply refused to let me "...navigate..." to this 
code--which I pointed out was a little strange for probably the world's largest 
and likely best
source of ...NAVIGATION... gear! :>) 

Of course I could have purchased Homeport and used my 540 for the charts and 
then transferred the planned routes back to the 540 as well--at least I think 
that is the case.

At least I saved a trip to the boat this way.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom



cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Pete Shelquist 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 10:35 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning



FWIW, I use Garmin BlueChart Mobile on an Ipad and have no complaints.  Fast 
and easy to use tools.   Also, it’s easy to connect a remote GPS via Bluetooth 
and use that for live tracking in the car, boat, etc.
 
Good luck.
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning

 


Charlie,

 

As far as Garmin is concerned, I am traditionalist and I like the MapSource the 
best. If you insist on using an iProduct, you are somewhat out of luck (you can 
use BaseCamp, I believe, but I cannot guarantee results). But it works very 
well on any Windows PC and, as some other listers can attest, an old BlueChart 
v.2 can be of great help in planning routes.

 

Marek (in Ottawa)

--

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:43:12 -0400
From: "Rick Brass" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning
Message-ID: <009001cf3e2b$5060c9f0$f1225dd0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Charlie;

 

Since you have a Garmin plotter, have you thought about using Garmin
Homeport software. I know you can load it on a PC, at a cost of $29.00. You
can download the Garmin chart set that is on your 540 at no cost, IIRC. Then
you can not only do the route planning on your laptop, but you can copy the
route to the SD card in your plotter and have the route available on the
plotter to be followed. I think there is a version available for iOS, but
you can't put the route onto an SD card because there is no slot in the iPAD
- at least not on the iPAD that I have.

 

Rick Brass

 




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Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning (now MapSource etc.)

[cenelson]

Thanks Mark--it may reduce the number of trips I need to make to the device on 
the boat.

Per your email, it appears that I should put a blank SD card into my 540 so 
that Garmin can initialize it before I load the routes, etc. on the card
via my computer with MapSource. 

After that, I put the SD card back in the device, which Garmin now recognizes, 
and load the routes onto
the chart buried within the 541. 

Presumably if the card with routes is placed in the device before 
initialization, Garmin might initialize it and write 
over the info on it previously. 

It seems that MapSource could take care of the initialization but then I 
probably need the device serial number, blah, blah...
which still requires a trip to the boat.

Talk about a "...rope-a-dope..."

Anyhow, I did get the unlock code from Garmin and have downloaded the latest 
version of MapSource. I bought an SD card so I guess I can
plan the routes, etc., without loading them on the card until after it is 
initialized by the device.

I wonder if the above procedure is discussed in the MapSource help files or if 
the user is warned to initialize the SD card at the device before loading 
routes on it.

This would seem like a reasonable alert to the user.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson

 



cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Mar 19, 2014 9:38 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning (now MapSource etc.)




Charlie,
 
MapSource is licensed in a funny way (you have to install it from the Garmin CD 
at least once; after that you can upgrade it to the newest version). If you can 
open MapSource on your computer, you can simply download the newest version 
from here: http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=209 and 
upgrade what you have. 
 
The maps are licensed separately. If you have the BlueChart v.2 loaded already, 
nothing to worry. If you don’t, you need to get it unlocked. You can talk to 
Garmin about it or you can find other ways (warning: not all of them perfectly 
legal).
 
If you have a map (of any kind) loaded in your MapSource, BaseCamp etc. you can 
create routes and waypoints (and tracks) and transfer them to your Garmin 
device. I don’t know the 540, but if I can guess from using the 421, the proper 
way to transfer data between your computer and the device is using a SD card. 
The important step that many forget about is to put the _fresh_ card into the 
device _before_ creating routes etc. Garmin device would “initialise” the card 
for you with its serial number and this would allow you to direct the saved 
routes and waypoints to the device. After creating the route, you just move the 
SD Card to the device and “import” user data (this is what I think they call 
it).
 
I hope this helps
 
Marek 
_
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: cenel...@aol.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPad/iPhone app for route planning
Message-ID: <8d110d5fbf5d046-257c-2b...@webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Thanks to all for the advice about route planning. It turns out that I had a 
copy of Mapsource that had been used for a Caribbean trip several years ago. 
Your comments started me on
a search for it.

If I understand the listers correctly, I should be able to use it for route 
planning on my computer and then transfer the routes to my Garmin 540 on board 
via
a standard SD card. Since I had only used it once, I was able to get a code 
from Garmin to use it again (the last time) for no charge. They want more money 
for opening it again!
(Sounds a little old-fashioned by today's standards IMHO).

Ironically, their web-site simply refused to let me "...navigate..." to this 
code--which I pointed out was a little strange for probably the world's largest 
and likely best
source of ...NAVIGATION... gear! :>) 

Of course I could have purchased Homeport and used my 540 for the charts and 
then transferred the planned routes back to the 540 as well--at least I think 
that is the case.

At least I saved a trip to the boat this way.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom



cenel...@aol.com





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Re: Stus-List Fw: Ice Box seal...

[cenelson]

No attachment--I was referring to the string of emails regarding these gas 
cylinders.

I like them but they need to be sized correctly so that the cylinder maximum 
and minimum extent work in the space available 
and that the cylinder has the power to hold up the corresponding chart table, 
lazarette cover or refrigerator lid
to which they are attached.

Charlie Nelson
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb



cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: David 
To: CNC CNC 
Sent: Mon, Apr 21, 2014 11:10 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fw:  Ice Box seal...



Charlie,

Was there an attachment showing "these" or were you referring to an earlier 
e-mail.

Thanks in advance.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)




From: cenel...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:26:12 -0400
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fw:  Ice Box seal...


These were standard on my icebox/refrigerator, my chart table and my lazarette 
hatches with my 1995 XL/kcb. They are great and last approx 4-5 years depending 
on where they are used IIRC.


Charlie Nelson
C&C 36XL/kcb
Water Phantom


Sent from my iPad

On Apr 21, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Frederick G Street  wrote:



Me, too, if you could.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Apr 21, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Persuasion  wrote:




I would
 
Mike
S/V Persuasion
C&C 37 Keel/CB
Long Sault

 

From: Bill Coleman
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 5:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Ice Box seal...

 

I put it on in the middle of 2012. Still going strong.  Would you like to see 
pictures of it in action?
 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39





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Stus-List Battery options

[cenelson]

My Lifeline deep cycle size 31 battery has died after +7 years of use as a 
starting battery. 


I do not cruise, except occasional (mostly motor) trips to different local (< 
25 miles) racing venues. Thus I only carry one
battery in the interests of both weight and use.


Since it died the morning of the first day of a 2 day regatta, I got a size 27 
from Advance Auto just to reduce the drama of the tow or sailing
out/into the slip--although we did that on the return to the slip-had to put 
her in bow-to since sailing backwards is above my skill set!


Anyhow, for how I use the boat, I would appreciate ideas on the battery to buy. 
BTW, I never leave AC power to the boat on 
when I am not on board. 


I use a Zantrex 40 battery charger when plugged in to shore power(and aboard) 
and am thinking of adding a simple solar panel to keep the battery
topped off between race days.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb



cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Battery options

[cenelson]

No plans for offshore racing at present but I get the point; also another 60 
lbs is 'chump change' considering my 13,600 lbs displacement.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions--plus my Lifeline AGM measured 11.17 volts this 
AM (off the boat). Could this mean that it is not really dead?
 
Charlie Nelson
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Ken Heaton 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Apr 29, 2014 8:49 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery options


Charlie,


Do you expect to do any racing that require you to meet ISAF Offshore Special 
Regulations (OSR)?


Regular wet, lead acid batteries are no longer allowed for Category 3 and 
above.  Quoted from the latest edition, for 2014-2015:



3.28.4 Battery Systems 
 a) When an electric starter is the only method for starting the engine, the 
yacht 
shall have a separate battery, the primary purpose of which is to start the 
engine 
MoMu0,1,2,3 
 b) All rechargeable batteries on board shall be of the sealed type from which 
liquid 
electrolyte cannot escape. Other types of battery installed on board at 1/12 
may 
continue in use for the remainder of their service lives. 
MoMu0,1,2,3


Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin
S/V Salazar - Can 54955
C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67
Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia







On 28 April 2014 19:31,   wrote:

My Lifeline deep cycle size 31 battery has died after +7 years of use as a 
starting battery. 


I do not cruise, except occasional (mostly motor) trips to different local (< 
25 miles) racing venues. Thus I only carry one
battery in the interests of both weight and use.


Since it died the morning of the first day of a 2 day regatta, I got a size 27 
from Advance Auto just to reduce the drama of the tow or sailing
out/into the slip--although we did that on the return to the slip-had to put 
her in bow-to since sailing backwards is above my skill set!


Anyhow, for how I use the boat, I would appreciate ideas on the battery to buy. 
BTW, I never leave AC power to the boat on 
when I am not on board. 


I use a Zantrex 40 battery charger when plugged in to shore power(and aboard) 
and am thinking of adding a simple solar panel to keep the battery
topped off between race days.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb



cenel...@aol.com


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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling

[cenelson]

All this talk of spinnaker handling has me wondering.
 
Do most of you use end for end spin pole handling for jibing or dip pole? If 
dip pole, do you use 2 sets of lines?
 
We are trying to get the foredeck dance down with dip pole jibes since it 
should be easier on the foredeck crew, especially in winds above 10 knots.
 
Even with a carbon pole, 14 + feet is a little unwieldy in a breeze for end for 
end jibes.
 
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
 
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Joel Aronson 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Apr 29, 2014 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker handling


Tim.


If you are going to douse and gybe you will need to clear the primary in order 
to sheet the gennie.


Joel




On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:


Primaries would be for the guys.  Should have pointed that part out; we use 
symmetrical chutes.


Thanks,


Tim


On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:28 PM, "Hoyt, Mike"  wrote:



The sheets would still go aft to the same position for block and then bring 
them forward to whatever winch.  I would suggest that you do not need the 
primaries while flying chute and that should be what you use for the spin sheet.



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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[cenelson]

NC-PHRF also gives a single rating and assumes a 155% headsail and a spinnaker 
is used of standard size. However, practically all races have both spinnaker 
and non-spinnaker
classes so there is no 'mixing' of the fleets. 

When an overall race/regatta winner is required/desired or a distance race with 
a pursuit start is scored which has a mixed fleet, a constant +15 second/mile
adjustment is applied to the non-spinnaker fleet PHRF handicap for scoring in 
the mixed fleet. Of course is done only when all boats sail the same course.

It may not be the fairest way to score mised fleets, but it sure is simple!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Joel Aronson 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 9:06 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


I agree, but when is the last time you saw a J30 in a non-spin fleet?  The real 
disadvantage in PHRF goes to the non-planing boats when the wind kicks up.  My 
35 is not planing in 20 knots of wind!



On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Hoyt, Mike  wrote:


Interesting but not really true.  A planing hull loses its ability to plane 
without the spin and a J 30 is far less affected than a boat such as C&C 115 
with a 200% masthead spin and max LP of 108% of J
 
I do like the idea though.  Single rating is so so much simpler.  Also takes 
away the task of having to determine how much of the boat's speed is due to 
spinnaker and attempting to adjust.  Base handicaps are far far easier to set 
than all of these adjustments.
 
I like it!


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:48 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review





PHRF Chesapeake gives a single rating.  Races are either spin or non-spin.  I 
guess they assume that use of a chute benefits everyone equally. 


Joel
35/3
Annapolis




On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Hoyt, Mike  wrote:


Explain how non spin and spin ratings are the same?


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
Brodersen
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 10:00 PM 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review






Tim,
 
I have a base rating of 123, which I think we can sail to pretty well in 
non-spin.  Our boat has the same rating for spin and non-spin.  For comparison, 
the J30 is rated at 141 here.  
 
When we sail with the spin fleet we have worked our way into the middle of the 
pack, which is about where I expect to be, based on our experience.  The J30 
keeps pace with us going upwind.  We tend to do better going downwind.  We do 
have some good local talent that we sail against, including a J30 national 
one-design champion.  Most of our equipment is up to par, although both our .5 
oz. and .75 oz. chutes are over 15 years old.  They are in need of replacement, 
but still hold a pretty good shape.  It's just the material is no longer as 
crisp as it once was.
 
What we really like is the kick ass performance of the boat in the non-spin 
fleet.  The boat is tough to beat in light air and we have plenty of that on 
the Chesapeake.
 
Jake
 
Jake Brodersen
C&C 35 Mk-III
Midnight Mistress
Hampton VA
 
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tim Goodyear
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 8:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Handicap review
 

Eastern Connecticut Sailing Association is planning to review the C&C 35-3 PHRF 
handicap on March 26th.  I've been invited to present our case with the owner 
of the only other 35-3 racing in the area.  

 

35-3 owners (and others), what are your ratings (spinnaker) and how do they 
compare, and how are your results, against boats such as those below that we 
typically race against (I added a couple of other C&C's too)?  The ECSA racing 
area (Long Island Sound) is predominantly light air.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

 



Soverel 33

89


C&C 99

98


Evelyn 32-2

99


Express 34

99


X372

100


Frers 33

108


J/29 MHOB

114


C&C 38-3

115


C&C 35-3

117


Santana 30-30

120


C&C 36

132


J/30

135


C&C 34

144


C&C 33

149


C&C 30-1

168



 

 




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301 541 8551 


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Re: Stus-List Wheel Covers

[cenelson]

 I had it done to mine, in a color to match the hull, for about $250 plus 
shipping 4-5l years ago. Still looks like new--virtually indestructable IMHO in 
the NC sun (no cover).
Not as traditional as the leather but a lot easier on me!
?
Also the local UPS store let me ship it without having it wrapped--which was a 
real time saver with a 54 inch wheel. The company wraps it in cardboard for the 
return trip however.
?
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC
?
?
?

?
cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Edd Schillay 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 1:50 pm
Subject: Stus-List Wheel Covers

   All,

With Tom going the leather route for covering his wheel, has anyone had 
any experience with ColorWheelz? (http://www.colorwheelz.com)?

All the best,


Edd




Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY?

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website?(updated to include the 
Super Bowl)







 
 
On Feb 4, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
Tom,

It all looks great! ?
I can never justify the price of a leather cover, especially since I usually 
wear gloves.


Joel
 35/3
Annapolis



On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Tom Buscaglia  wrote:
   Listers

 Here an update on our current winter projects.? Nothing like what Harry is 
doing with Mirage, but baby steps... ;)?? 

 Partial Sole Refinish.

 After the extended discussions of everything from Varnish to cows, I though I 
would share the result of our partial sole refinish project.? Most of the sole 
on Alera looked great, except for one section at the bottom of the steps down 
into the main cabin.? Lynn pulled that section and did most of the work, 
including the selection of the Deft Polyurethane Semi Gloss finish.? Lynn has 
always handled the bright work on Jubilee (our former 72 MK1). And is now 
started to work her magic on Alera. We did 4 coats and it looks like it will 
match up with the existing finish perfectly.

 Images here -  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8441593815/in/photostream
 
 and here -  http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8441592867/in/photostream
 
 For my part I am in the process of putting a sweet Boatleather cover, with 
padding, on the 48" Edson wheel.? In cold weather the bare metal would just 
leach the heat from my fingers, so this will be a welcome upgrade.? I rigged a 
bicycle stand to hold the wheel so I can do it in the house.? It is a tedious 
job, and I'm about 1/2 done so far.? I plan on finishing it up during the big 
game today.

 Here's how it looks so far -  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37365243@N00/8442678780/in/photostream
 
 Cheers!

 Tom B

  Tom Buscaglia
 SV Alera
 C&C 37+/40
 Vashon Island WA
 
(206) 463-9200
 www.sv-alera.com
 
  
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Re: Stus-List Main Reefing System

[cenelson]

My crew has, with some practice, learned how to fold my main once and roll it 
up to be tied to the boom when at the dock.


Saves some wear and tear on the sail and is probably about as fast as flaking 
it. It takes at least 3 to do this well.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Eric Baumes 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Feb 8, 2013 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Main Reefing System


I have forgone lazy jacks. I like to watch my crew try to flake the laminate 
sail. The more the better. When it is my wife and I do it, no problem.  3 or 
more crew is really fun to watch.


Eric
34+


PS My wife worked in the fashion industry so she knows how to fold :)


On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Andrew Burton  wrote:


Your way is absolutely right, Jonathan. If you tension the clew before the 
halyard, you stand a good chance of ripping the bolt rope or slug out of he 
main.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840


http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260



On Feb 8, 2013, at 5:55 PM, "Indigo"  wrote:




“To reef, lower the main, one person hooks the littlestrap to the hook on the 
gooseneck, and another hauls in the leech line (myboat has a small winch on the 
side of the boom and a cleat just forward ofthat). When the line is tight, then 
secure itand hoist the main back up.”
 
I have always tensioned the halyard first (stops the ring onthe strap falling 
off the hook) and then the leech line. Is this incorrect?
 
Jonathan
35-III – Connecticut in the Blizzard!
 
 



From: CnC-List[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] OnBehalf Of Gary Nylander
Sent: Friday, February 08, 20134:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Main Reefing System

 

There are two ways to go - a single line system which can becontrolled from the 
cockpit or a two-man system.

 

The two man system is easier to rig. Put a reefing cringle about3 feet up the 
luff of the main - my sailmaker then put a short strap throughthe cringle - the 
strap has a ring at each end. Attached to the gooseneck ofthe boom is a hook, 
mine is nearly a circle - of about 1/4 inch stainless.

 

About three feet up on the leech of the main, put anothercringle. On the boom, 
put a flush fitting block on one side and a padeye on theother, about a foot in 
from the end of the boom (make sure when your main isdropped down, these will 
be able to pull back on the main leech).

 

The reefing line is run from the padeye, up to the cringleon the leech, down to 
the block and then forward along the side of the boom(some run it inside - 
maybe that's better if you reef a lot, around here wedon't). 

 

To reef, lower the main, one person hooks the little strapto the hook on the 
gooseneck, and another hauls in the leech line (my boat hasa small winch on the 
side of the boom and a cleat just forward of that). Whenthe line is tight, then 
secure it and hoist the main back up.

 

The single line system just continues the reefing lineforward to the gooseneck 
and then through a block up to the cringle at the luffand back down to 
something to secure it. Sometimes people run this through ablock at the base of 
the mast and then back to the cockpit - to a winch. Thenone person can do the 
whole thing.

 

I hope I explained it OK.

 

Gary


- Original Message - 

From: johnr...@aol.com 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Sent: Friday, February08, 2013 3:53 PM

Subject: Stus-List Main Reefing System

 

I will put a reefing system in for theloose-footed main on my 29-2 this spring. 
 Would appreciate anysuggestions or plans from all you knowledgeable folks out 
there. 

 

John McLaughlin

C&C29 MKII,  "Falcon"



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Re: Stus-List tip clearance

[cenelson]

When my old (15 year with one rebuild) MaxProp was replaced last spring, I went 
with a Gori 2 blade racing prop which was discounted 
at the time I bought it. My research showed that it had barely measurable drag.


After various discussions with Geoff of AB Marine, I got a 16 x 11 (I think) 
for my 36XL/kcb. I had to rely on some sketches from my diver 
regarding prop clearance, etc. so I was a little nervous about ordering it with 
the boat in the water.


Yard installed it, no vibrations, excessive noise, etc. basically no issues at 
all except for me learning that it takes a little more time in reverse
to 'catch' the water and get some flow over the rudder for steerage.


Although there were other issues addressed including a re-faired and new 
centerboard at the same time, I am now competitive with other similarly
rated boats that I was not competitive with prior to this.


She reaches hull speed at the recommended shaft RPM which matches the 
recommended Beta 1005 cruising RPM.


I am completely satisfied with the switch and only hope that the prop life is 
reasonably long.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom 





cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Eric Baumes 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List tip clearance


Chris,


What model do you have?


I just yanked my Gori 2-blade prop off my 34/36. I put it on last year and when 
it first went on the boat shook like crazy. I got 100 yards out of the marina, 
throttled up then turned around. The yard hauled the boat, check the shaft for 
true, put it back in the water, aligned the engine, drove it, aligned the 
engine again. 


I picked the boat up as the racing season had started, and took the boat 9 
hours to a regatta. On the way home I brought it back to the boat yard as the 
vibration was still bad except for a few RPM bands. I talked with AB marine and 
they didn't have a 1 1/8' hub but swapped out the blades. The boat came out of 
the water, blades swapped and went back in. It was better, but when I took the 
boat out on a cruise, I found the vibration/noise and the complaint of my wife 
who sleeps in the aft cabin when I leave anchorage early that it was much 
louder than last year.


As I said, I had the yard pull the prop and I am going to contact AB Marine 
this week. Given everything I went through last year, I am really tempted to 
just get a martec. If they tell me the prop is fine, then I don't want to put 
it back on the boat. If they tell me it had to be balanced, I am not sure I 
trust putting it back on the boat.


Eric 
34/36 #74


On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Chris Tassone  wrote:


Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me.  I doubt getting this Gori 2-blade 16.5 x 11 RH  
prop rebalanced will help since I already did this and the results we're 
negative.  After trying to resolve this for the last three years I think the 
only solution is a new prop.  I relied on your company's expertise to size this 
prop for me and I made a mistake that I will have to live with.  If you know of 
anyone that wants to buy a prop please let me know.  Thanks for your concern.
Chris
  
- Original Message - 
  
From:   Steve   Armitage 
  
To: Chris Tassone 
  
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 12:22   PM
  
Subject: Re: tip clearance
  


Dear   Sir,  


  
Perhaps the thing to do is   have the propeller removed and re-balanced as i 
think you have enough tip   clearance and don't see this as an issue.  Sorry 
that i cannot be more   helpful than that.
  
Regards, Steve Armitage  
AB Marine, Inc
  
747 Aquidneck Ave
  
Middletown, RI 02842
  
sa...@ab-marine.com
  
401-847-7960


  
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Chris Tassone  wrote:
  


Hi Steve,

My name is Chris Tassone.  I spoke with you at  Strictly Sail Chicago 
concerning the noise I get with my Gori 16.5" x 11 x 2rh prop.  You 
suggested that tip clearance could be the culprit.  My tip clearance is 
5-1/2".  I spread the prop by spanning the blades and hub with a strait 
edge and measured this distance.  I also measured the distance on my 1" 
shaft from the cutlass to the front of the prop hub which is 1-3/8".  My 
boat is a 1979 C&C 34 with a Yanmar 2QM.  The noise is really noticeable 
and could be a concern if I ever try to sell the boat.  Would a smaller 
prop solve the problem?  I installed a new shaft and coupling when I 
purchased the Gori.  I lapped the shaft and checked it with a dial 
indicator.  The shaft is aligned.  I really appreciate your attention.

Thanks,

Chris Tassone

231-946-8185 H

231-883-1234   C





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T

Stus-List SS wire or line for lifelines

[cenelson]

I am considering replacing my 17 year old lifelines (wire with white plastic 
cover) this year.

I like the idea of bare SS wire (long lifetime) although the hassle of the 
fittings, swaging, etc. is not appealing.

OTOH, high tech line is begining to be used which eliminates the fittings, 
swaging, etc. but it likely has a limited life exposed to the
North Carolina sun every day.

Opinions and especially experience from the list would be appreciated.

TIA,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin

[cenelson]

As a PHRF racer, I realize that assigning a single rating for a boat sailing in 
various conditions of wind, waves, etc. is a very poor substitute for a more 
complicated and more expensive solution such as IRC, etc. etc.

Adding modifications to this single number to account for sail configurations 
such as spin or non-spin is IMHO similar to adding lipstick to a pig. 

However, for overall winner determinations, a +15 seconds per mile adjustment 
to the rating when sailing non-spin has been used in some local distance races 
in order to award a winner. This seems to work reasonably for our club 
racing--after all this is club racing and our PHRF certificate costs all of ~ 
$20 per year!

However, I have also raced in events where a combined trophy was awarded where 
there were spin, non-spin and cruiser fleets. In these events, sometimes the 
overall award was given to the winner of the most competitive class.  IIRC this 
class was defined as the class in the fleet whose corrected times were the 
closest or with the smallest spread. Presumably this means that the first boat 
in this class had to work very hard to stay there.

This may not work in your case but it is another way to combine the 
fleets--whether it is less arbitrary than a single number adjustment is another 
matter.

FWIW,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36XL/kcb





cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Rick Brass 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 1:46 am
Subject: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin



I help out with a  local charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo.  
http://www.piratesonpungo.org   We are planning to do a couple of special 
trophies this year, one of which will go to the C&C sailboat that finishes 
first in the long pursuit race on the first day of sailing. While we plan to 
have both spin and non-spin classes for the PHRF boats in the regatta (with sub 
classes to keep the competition fair for all size boats), we want the special 
awards to span both spin and non-spin.
 
NCPHRF, unlike some other regional PHRF groups,  does not grant different spin 
and non-spin ratings. And the PHRF base ratings that we use for a lot of the 
casual sailors presume a spinnaker.  
 
So we’re thinking about creating an adjusted  “NON-SPIN” rating for the boats 
in the special trophy groups that will let them compete relatively fairly with 
the spin boats in the same special group.
 
I’ve been told that one of the clubs in Oriental, NC adds an arbitrary 11 
seconds to the NCPHRF spin rating to get a “non-spin” rating – regardless of 
the size or type of boat. That doesn’t sound like it would be fair to the 
smaller boats like the 24, 25, or 27, and it might be generous for the larger 
boats like my own 38 or Charlie Nelson’s 36XL.
 
During the past couple of weeks there was some discussion of how various clubs 
and local groups calculate a “non-spin” rating that lets all boats race in one 
class. I seem to recall one message that indicated 10% or 15% of the normal 
rating was added for a boat racing non-spin. But I think there were other 
methods, too.
 
So the question for the wisdom of the list is this: What is a fair way to 
adjust the normal PHRF rating (which presumes a spinnaker) for a boat that is 
racing non-spin?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 
 
 
 

 
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Re: Stus-List Centerboard 35-3

[cenelson]

1) This looks like you would use the broken pin to hold the board up--if so, a 
little risky IMHO.

3) This could be a lot of lead grinding/dust/hazardous.

4) Good luck with this!!

2) Have had my yard do this when I lost my board a few years ago--not a big 
deal to grind away fiberglass to pin, drive it out, 
raise the boat above the board with travel lift. This is likely to require some 
kind of cradle to hold the board vertical while the boat is suspended above it.
If you have all the parts ready, you/the yard can replace the bolt/straps/etc. 
in the board while the boat is suspended in the lift.

(I don't know about a 35-3 board but mine weighed about 1000 lbs so 'dropping 
the board' requires some kind of cradle, etc. A 1000 lb piece of
lead filled fiberglass shaped like a fin is a little unwieldy to keep in or 
return to its 'normal' position

When the board work is completed, the boat is lowered onto board, pin replaced, 
fiberglass filled in, painted, etc. and off you go--several thousand dollars 
poorer--
but with a permanent fix.

FWIW

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb




cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Kim Brown 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 5:03 pm
Subject: Stus-List Centerboard 35-3


All,
enterboard saga continues. We were able to get the board down and reach the
ttachment point but the pin itself is broken.  There are two straps with
ne on each side of the board, they appear intact. But the pin that runs
etween is broken.  We can grind the remnants out but there appears no easy
ay to replace it? Even with the board down the straps are up in the keel
avity and there is no clearance outboard of the straps. Anyone been down
his path? Possible choices seem to be 1) just pin the board up and forget
bout it (for the moment this is what we are going to do so I can splash);
)punch the pivot pin on the board out and drop it; 3) grind the nose of the
eel a bit to allow the board to pivot forward more than usual and enough to
xpose the strap and replace the pin normally. Not sure it this can be done
ithout getting into the lead too deep-; 4) getting creative on the hardware
ront-some sort of pin/bolt that will fit between the straps (approx 1.5")
nd the then expand (spring? threaded?)to pop into the strap holes on either
ide. Of course it needs to be stainless, handle real weight and stay
xpanded.Thoughts? Voice of experience?  Anyone tried #3?
Kim Brown
rustMe!!! 35-3

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Re: Stus-List Race video

[cenelson]

Good analysis from all IMHO. Several other points might be made:

1. Blue was coming down the line, mostly parallel to it, on a beam or close 
reach at high speed--barging. While not against the rules, it is a risky 
maneuver in any fleet
and the barger has very few 'rights' in any close encounter and is often moving 
too fast too late to change course in a seaman-like manner.

2. The main was apparently never released and in the breeze, it likely was 
controlling the boat direction, mostly independent of the rudder. 

I came very close to T-boning the RC boat in a similar situation a few years 
ago when the main sheet/traveler jammed and my main trimmer only got it freed 
with about a boat-length to spare.
If we hadn't got it free, my 13,500 lb Water Phantom would have gone at least 
half way into the starboard side of the 41 ft. CS committee boat!
That was the last time, for me, of coming down the line at speed. 

I have also been t-boned by an excellent sailor on a Thompson 30 when their his 
crew were all on the rail and the helms person could not release the main 
sheet. His bowsprit plowed into
my stern quarter for about a 4" high x 12 inch long hole. His rudder was 
over-whelmed by the main.

3. In fleets of mixed boats and skipper skill levels, I think most experienced 
crew/skippers will gladly give up a few seconds at the start to avoid 
situations like this. I know I do.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Chuck S 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Apr 11, 2013 10:58 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video


Good calls Rick,
I watched that video three times and the only voice I hear is the tactician who 
talks fairly calmly and steadily.  He several times tells the helm to "come up" 
or "turn up".  She doesn't seem to know what "up" is, turns down at first, 
(maybe used to a tiller?) and then corrects too late, and the boat doesn't 
respond.The whole crew looked rather distracted and inexperienced.  No one 
is looking for traffic.  That's everyone's job.  The Iphone probably has the 
GPS ap running that shows the start line, speed, VMG, etc.  He sees the other 
boat the whole time.  Camelot is to starboard and well ahead when the video 
starts.  She crosses the bow of Blue, and gets leebowed by another boat nearer 
the line, comes over and instigates the manuever that results in collision.  
Awful.  I blame Blue's helmsman for not keeping tabs on competition, and for 
not turning up in time when room was available.   


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Rick Brass" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:18:09 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video


Actually, if you look at the first minute or so of the video, it appears that 
Camelot was being driven up by another boat while jockeying for position near 
the line. In any event, Camelot had right of way.
 
As I watched, I was impressed by how closely the tactician was watching his 
little orange Iphone – or whatever it was. He should have had his head out of 
the boat during a start sequence – particularly when they were trying to snake 
the boat past the committee boat end of the fleet at speed. I know he is 
probably watching the clock – but when they got to the point that they had no 
room to luff up and kill time without hitting the committee boat it was time to 
pay attention to the traffic and not the clock .
 
As Blue approaches Camelot, you can hear someone telling the helmsman to “come 
up”. Even while he is being told to come up, you can see him playing with the 
wheel and actually turning down until he is only a foot or so away from Camelot.
 
Even at that point, I suspect that a collision was avoidable. But the helmsman 
on Camelot seems to have steered away to port quickly – which just swung his 
stern to starboard and caused the aft half of the boats to collide.
 
So Blue violated rules 12 and then 11, and it is easily arguable that she also 
violated rule 14,
 
You could argue that Camelot violated Rule 16.1 “When a right of way boat 
changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.” (Several 
years ago I was chairman of a Protest Committee who’s ruling after a 
collision/protest just like this one was overturned by US Sailing because of 
Rule 16.1)
 
As far as who pays for the damage and injuries, the insurance companies will 
probably end up splitting the expense. Blue clearly violated ColRegs rule 13A 
(I don’t suppose you can cite the tactician for ignoring rule 7, but that is 
probably also a factor). But Camelot violated ColRegs rule 2. So there is 
shared liability and the insurance companies get to duke it out.
 
Rick Brass
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Race video

 

Racing Rules Of Sailing 2009 - 2012 from USSailing (newer version just came out)
Rule 11, Boats on same tack and o

Re: Stus-List Spectra/double braid halyards

[cenelson]

I changed out my mast and boom sheaves after 16 years because they were worn 
out from use and sun exposure, cracked, chipped, etc. 


Certainly at the mast head, these plastic sheaves take a lot of sun exposure, 
at least in NC.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Rick Brass 
To: 'Dennis C.' ; cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 12:51 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spectra/double braid halyards



Dennis, please explain the comment about changing out the sheaves and sheave 
boxes.
 
Both my 25 and 38 – which are about the same vintage as Touche’ – had wire to 
rope halyards. The sheaves were the type with a curved shape for the rope and a 
small curved groove for the wire. Not the type with a v-shaped grove you see in 
some sheaves. I converted to all rope (3/8” in the 25 and 7/16” on the 38 – 
StaSet in both cases) halyards and have seen no deformation or chafe in the 
halyards in 10 years of use on the 38, and more like 15 on the 25. Plus the 
StaSet is just about as strong as the wire part of the wire to rope halyards I 
replaced.
 
If you have the “round groove” type of sheaves, I wonder if you would need to 
change them.
 
In the last few months I’ve bought two sets of spin sheets made of Dyneema or 
Dyneema/MFP blend. Both the 3/8 Salsa sheets and the 5/6 light air Flight-Line 
sheets are far stronger than I really need, but they float – which will avoid 
reoccurrence of an expensive prop shaft and engine repair that resulted from my 
last set of non-floating sheets. I’ve been thinking that my next halyard 
purchase will also be Dyneema.
 
I don’t know what diameter the wire in your current halyard is, but here is a 
comparison of strength of Samson AmSteel Blue with 1x19 304 stainless wire for 
running rigging:
 
Diameter Amsteel   304 Wire
5/32   3600   2500
3/16   4900   3700
¼ 7700   6400
 
Of course 304 wire is stronger than 316 wire of the same diameter.
Amsteel Blue can be routed around sheaves with a diameter 8 times the line 
diameter, so 2” sheaves will do.
Amsteel Blue has elongation of 0.96% at 30% of break strength, while the wire 
varies from 2.3% for 5/32 to 2.4% for ¼”.
 
There is a line supplier in Pennsylvania from whom I have bought a considerable 
amount of running rigging over the years (I used to live in the next town over 
from his warehouse). He’s reliable and Samson dealer. He has ¼” 12-plait 
Dyneema SK75 halyard line on EBay right now for $0.90 per foot. I don’t think 
it is Samson, but it appears to be functionally identical.
 
So I paid $1.60 something a foot for StaSet with a break strength of 7000 
pounds. The stuff has elongation over 2% at 20% load. Or I can buy Dyneema that 
is 10% stronger and about a third the weight ( plus being lighter, 20% 
stronger,  and less than half as stretchy as the wire in the original halyards) 
for about half the cost of StaSet. And splicing 12-plait Dyneema is child’s 
play, a lot like splicing a poly ski rope, so I did it myself on the sheets I 
made from Salsa line and saved that cost.
 
I know I can’t run the ¼ inch line through my cabin top rope clutches. But 
given the strength and low stretch, I don’t see it as a problem to use the 
winch and the companion horn cleat mounted on the mast to raise and secure the 
halyard.
 
It seems like Dyneema halyards are a pretty good option. At least as long as 
there is not something that would require a change to the mast sheaves. Hence 
my question at the top of this long and rambling message.
 
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 
 
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C.
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:37 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spectra/double braid halyards

 

I've been considering a Dyneema/StaSet main halyard for the same reason but I 
will talk with APSLtd instead of Cajun.

To switch to an all rope, one size halyard, I'd have to change out the sheave 
and sheave box.  Not sure I want to spend an hour cutting out the opening in 
the mast to accommodate a wider sheave box.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

 



 





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Re: Stus-List 38 K/CB opinions

[cenelson]

Whisper, a C&C 38/kcb, has raced well at Charleston Race Week for several 
years. The owner is/was from near Jacksonville, Fl.


I met him and his crew a few years ago there. Perhaps he could be reached via 
the CRW web page.


Might be worth contacting him--I spoke with him about 5 years ago but have no 
contact information left.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom 36XL/kcb
New Bern, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. 
To: Cn Clist 
Sent: Sun, Jul 8, 2012 4:50 pm
Subject: Stus-List 38 K/CB opinions



A friend is looking at a 1986 C&C 38 MK3 K/CB.  Any comments (+/-) from 38 
owners and listers I should forward to him?  He's looking at it primarily for 
club racing.



Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


 
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Stus-List Summer racing in the NC heat.

[cenelson]

Water Phantom raced non-spinnaker this past weekend in the Hancock Yacht Club 
Regatta held in the Neuse River off the Marine Air Station Cherry Point. 
Usually I go spinnaker, but the competition was better in  non-spin with 4 
others while the spin fleet only had 2. Since I would rather compete than chase 
trophies, we stayed in non-spin.

My crew of 7 suffered in the 1st no-wind race which began before the sea breeze 
had a chance to arrive but with some luck and persistence we crossed the line 
1st of 5 but were corrected over by 30 seconds by a well sailed Pearson 
30--ended up 2nd in a fleet of 2 P-30s, a San Juan 30 and a P-31. Not too bad 
for the heaviest boat in the fleet.

The second race had a great sea breeze of 8-10 knots, we put the board down to 
good effect and stayed in clear air on the triangle course and did a horizon 
job on the others for 1st place.

The 3rd race we were too aggresive at the start, got there early and as we 
turned to keep the bow behind the line, the midships crossed it early so we had 
to restart, which involved a jibe and tack since we were too far down the line 
to just dip. Never giving up, we got our heads back in the game but fell below 
the layline to the windward mark which required 2 extra tacks. Needless to say, 
we did not finish anywhere but 5th, DFL.

However, on corrected time we were only 9 seconds out of 3rd which would have 
tied us for 1st.

With a 1st and at least a 2nd pretty much assured, it was our regatta to lose 
and we were unnecessarily aggresive at the start. My 36 XL/kcb takes way more 
than 9 seconds to do either a jibe and a tack or 2 tacks! This time we really 
snatched 3rd from a 2nd or 1st--even though the official results were not 
available until after all the races. 

No races on Sunday since the sea breeze was late and so we left with no way to 
redeem our 3rd race.

Moral--don't let short term tactics or the fun of having a great start get in 
the way of the big picture!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Who pays for the food and beer?

[cenelson]

I may be a little generous but as skipper I usually provide lunch sandwiches, 
drinks (water and Gatorade while racing, beer and liquor after racing is over) 
and snacks.

If there is a dinner or party afterward where meal tickets are involved, I buy 
tickets for the crew expected on board usually at least 6. The boat is 
available for them
to sleep on if the regatta is a 2 day affair, although if feasible I often pay 
for a motel room so that some of the crew and I get to crash off the boat. 6-8 
men sleeping on a 
36 footer is a little crowded, even though she is air-conditioned.

I have crew that have been with me since they first came on the boat in 2004 
and others that have joined over the years so that I now have a core crew of 
about
8, the most recent of which has been with me for over 1 year. I have not yet 
lost a good crew to another boat and several of the current crew knew nothing 
about sailing or racing when they joined.
For the top crew, I provide associate memberships in our local, paper only 
racing clubs both to keep them up to date on club activities and to support the 
clubs at $25 per yearly membership.

My crew chief (now in his 9th year on board) is responsible for the email crew 
calls, assigning duties on board and arranging for delivery crew, including 
himself pretty often. He knows the operation of the boat almost at my level and 
has delivered it with crew (without me on board) several times.

I am always willing to have new crew on board and if they 'click' with me and 
the other crew, they get invited back. If not, and there have been a few of 
them, they are not asked back.
The only ones not asked back in recent memory is one who thought he knew more 
about big boat racing than he did and another who was entirely too casual about 
it all. Both were competent sailors, however.

Crew are totally responsible for all sail handling, including folding, rolling, 
removing, stowing, and reattaching, etc. as well as all line handling when I 
take her into the slip in reverse.
Before and after racing, they get a chance to steer her both under sail and 
while motoring. 

Since I will be out of racing for the next 2 weekends for class reunions, the 
crew will race her without me in a ~ 20 mile distance race this Saturday and 
then in a 2 day regatta the following weekend for which I bought the crew 
dinner tickets.

IMHO, I treat them as team mates who allow me to pursue my racing passion. 
Without competent crew, I could not race my 36 footer at all.

This is not to say that they don't take a fair amount of abuse occasionally 
when there are the inevitable foul-ups during racing, nor are they bashful 
about giving the skipper some abuse when I lose concentration at the helm or 
put my skipper/boat owner nose into something that I don't need to while at the 
helm.

We strive to win within our club racing circuit but most importantly we have 
fun. The above philosophy has worked for me since 2004 (when I got a new set of 
racing sails and decided to get 'serious' about my club racing) and we have 
slowly but steadily moved up in the standings as the boat, its handling and the 
skipper and crew have climbed the learning curve while having a great time. 
YMMV.



Charlie Nelson
Skipper
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb  


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Jeffrey Nelson 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Jul 25, 2012 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Who pays for the food and beer?


As crew:
I bring beer for skipper and crew.  Lunch we usually fend for ourselves.
Other crew bring snacks and rhum as required.
Skipper brings boat, wisdom (usually) and a wack load of spare parts.
I find it a great boat to race on, and don't expect anything more than 
everyone's best efforts.

As Skipper:
I usually fill in the blanks on bringing beer and/or Rhum depending on ships 
stores.
I don't think I've ever brought snacks, but I have brought a BBQ once for after 
race raft up.
Crew usually brings beer/rhum and ice and other necessities of life.
I haven't heard any complaints and the core team has been together since I've 
moved to Nova Scotia
two years ago.

Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Muir Caileag
   C&C 30
On 07/24/12, Oban Lambie  wrote:
I've always provided snacks, water, sandwiches and beer for my Tuesday
nite racing crew. My wife just realized this and says I'm too generous
- implying that the crew should bring their own.

Sounds cheap and wrong to me as I'm grateful that the crew comes along
but wanted to know what you other racers do?

Thanks,

- Oban

Circe
C&C 29-1

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Re: Stus-List a $40 life sling? Follow up, it's not!

[cenelson]

Or support your local canvas maker and have one made to match your boat colors 
for ~ 1 boat buck (or less).
 
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb


cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: HONEYSAIL 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List a $40 life sling? Follow up, it's not!

Just bite the bullet and buy the fiberglass LS canister. My is 10 years old and 
still looks great.
 
Jack Fitzgerald
HONEY
C&C 39 TM
 
In a message dated 8/6/2012 12:42:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
paradigmat...@gmail.com writes:
Our "new" Lifesling bag is devolving into a bunch of strings held together with 
bits of crunchy plastic. The replacement bags suck. You'd think you could buy a 
decent Sunbrella bag for the price. 
At least, as Joe says, the Lifesling line is attached to a strong point, not 
the bag itself. 



On 6 August 2012 08:27, Della Barba, Joe  wrote:
 
Wow – that is awful!!
The Lifesling bag isn’t a ton better, but at least they feed the line out of 
the bag and you get to tie it on securely without relying on the bag!
OTOH the Lifesling poly-pro “ski line” will meld itself into a mass that will 
not untangle. I replaced mine with floating dinghy-tow line that is 100 times 
better.
Joe Della Barba  Coquina

 
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of dre...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List a $40 life sling? Follow up, it's not!


 
Hi, 

 

You may recall the discussion on the list back in February regarding the new 
Revere RescueMax.  I was initially pleased with the device, but discover a 
major manufacturing DEFECT with it this weekend.   I purchased the RescueMax in 
February, but did not install it on my stern rail until the end of March.   I 
have discover that after about 4 months of daily sun exposure, the mounting and 
secure strap webbings are disintegrating to dust.    So when the rescueMax is 
deployed, its rope is secured to a ring inside the bag with the mounting and 
secure webbing holding the bag to the boat.  

 

This is a potential life treating DEFECT!     If anyone has a RescueSling, 
check your mounting webbing.

 

 

I called Revere this morning, and they told me that they no longer sell the new 
RescueMax.   I then asked if it was recalled, and they told me that they don't 
do that on discontinued items.  I then kindly told them how silly that 
statement was, and I was then told that if I wanted to return it, I should 
contact the place where I purchased it.   I am not that worried about my lost 
investment, but I am extremely concerned for someone who may rely on this item 
for a rescue and by the lack of concern at Revere.  

 

 

 

-
Paul E.
s/v Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL 

 
 

{Stus-List} a $40 life sling?Colin Kilgour " 
href="mailto:cnc-list%40cnc-list.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%7BStus-List%7D%20a%20%2440%20life%20sling%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CCAKR-nkmjWNXmn5mPg4Vr6_fRu2V4%2BP2hGKZ2GOfSKn7hxow3gw%40mail.gmail.com%3E";
 target=_blank charliekilo552 at gmail.com 
Wed Feb 1 19:54:24 EST 2012
 

Previous message: {Stus-List} a $40 life sling? Next message: {Stus-List} 
Flexofold NA Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

Never heard of it, but Revere is a reputable name in PFD's so I wouldthink it's 
probably fine. Shoot, how wrong can you go for $40?  Buy one, look at it when 
itarrives.  If it looks ok, put it on the rail. (And let us all know).If not 
send it back to Defender. Also, at that price, who cares if it's discontinued?  
The replacementcover for a lifesling is the same price - but doesn't include 
thelifesling! (Or if you're feeling flush, get yourself a MOM8 for about 20x 
the price) CheersColin  On 2/1/12, Paul Eugenio  
wrote:> Hi,> > Has anyone seen or tested RevereRescueMax Inflatable 
ManOverBoard Rescue> System?> > I just came across a link 
(http://www.defender.com/activecaptain.jsp) where> you can get this item for 
$40.  It claims to list for $130, but at $40 I am> concerned that sale is 
too good to be true (i.e., the item is discontinued> and/or has 
problems).> > > > -> Paul E.> s/v Johanna Rose> 
Carrabelle, FL> >  







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-- 
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC



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Re: Stus-List Sailing gloves

[cenelson]

I got badly burned fingers once with half-fingered gloves.

While I should have released the line before I saw my fingers 'smoking', it 
happened too fast for me to let go quickly enough.

I had to retreat below for several hours nursing my blistered inside fingers on 
my hand with ice, ointment, etc.

Decided then and there to "...NEVAHH..." use half-fingered gloves again.

FWIW,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/ldb



cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing gloves


I know people who sail without gloves; I can't.
 
I used Ronstan's that lasted the longest (but I was sailing less then). Gills 
last a season at best (though, they are quite comfortable). I have quite good 
experience with West marine - they were, so far, the best value for the money 
(I bought a couple of pairs when they were at $20 (CAD!)).
 
I also find that the same gloves differ in performance between pairs. This must 
depend on the leather and other materials sued in manufacturing. 
 
I also noticed that it pays to check in what state the gloves are _before_ you 
put them to the test. Wearing gloves and being burnt by the moving line is not 
overly enjoyable.
 
My experience with any work gloves (Home Depot or Canadian Tire) is that they 
are quite good, as long as they are dry. If you get them wet, they don't dry 
that quickly and become a nuisance. 
 
All of the above don't help much when it gets cold. We do our haul out in late 
October and the weather Gods somehow always know about it and send cold and wet 
our way (we have some rain or sleet 8 times out of 10). I once used the 
waterproof gloves during the haul out and they worked quite well (lasted till 
lunch). On the other hand these gloves are not very conducive to doing any 
precise work.
 
When you combine wet and cold you maybe looking at some high performance gloves 
(which means high price, as well). For skiing I always use Auclair gloves (the 
racing kind, leather), but most of the time they don't need to cope with real 
wet (we usually ski way below 0C).
 
Btw. I wonder what people prefer: all fingers cut or just the two? My 
experience is that if you use all cut fingers gloves, you will get burnt, 
eventually.
 
Marek
C&C 24 "Fennel"
Ottawa

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Re: Stus-List Isaac: Lightning on the hard

[cenelson]

And if the bolt doesn't get you or your boat directly, anything that has a few 
coils of wire in it near such a large discharge of current, will have a very 
large electromagnetic pulse generated in it which will likely destroy it and 
anything that it is in the same circuit.


We had a lightening bolt hit a tree about 30 feet from our house a few years 
ago--the pine tree, not unexpectedly, didn't fare too well--basically exploded 
internally from the instantaneous heat/gases produces in the vaporized 
wood/sap. Fortunately it did not fall on our house. 


However, just about every motor in our house (garage door opener, clothes 
dryer, air conditioner/heater fan, washing machine) was destroyed by this 
EMP(electromagnetic pulse).


Furthermore, given the vagaries of where such a bolt would find a path to 
ground, I remain fatalistic. No matter what one does to mitigate its effects, 
IMHO its a crap-shoot if the boat is hit by lightening or not.


In theory, the mast (if properly grounded with a reasonably sharp lightening 
arrestor to bleed accumulated charge away quickly), the boat's extra charge is 
never very large and does not allow a large electrical potential to build up 
between the mast and the atmosphere/clouds. That said, we are talking about 
immense potential and currents which are changing quickly with the local 
weather--and if for only an instant your mast is the preferred path to ground, 
the bolt is going thru your mast--no matter what you have done to reduce the 
attractiveness of your mast as a place for the bolt to strike.


FWIW


Charles Nelson
Water Phantom
 


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Jake Brodersen 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Isaac: Lightning on the hard


Keith,

You're just a regular ray of sunshine here

Points well taken though.  The amperage associated with a lightning strike
is truly phenomenal, although I fortunately have no firsthand experience.

Jake

Jake Brodersen
C&C 35 Mk-III
"Midnight Mistress"
Hampton VA



-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Morgenstern, Keith E CIV SEA 08 NR
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Isaac: Lightning on the hard

I think if your "lightning rod" rig ever did get hit, you'd find that the
heat from the bolt instantaneously melted the halyard to which it was
tied

Which would result in the how rig dropping 50 feet to your deck. Not sure
how the deck would fair...

Add to that injury the insult that the stuff that was dropping (the wood,
the copper, the chain) was probably still on fire or certainly glowing red.
Which may set the deck on fire or at least scar it...

Unless it was a wire halyard.  But the bolt may yet still melt the
nicropress that forms the eye in the halyard.

Food for thought. 

-Keith




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Re: Stus-List Folding/Feathering Prop for 33-1

[cenelson]

I second this regarding 1) what you are looking for and 2) considering a new 
prop.

I re-propped this spring after my 15 year old 3 blade feathering Max-Prop was 
facing its second rebuild. Since I was interested in absolutely minimum drag 
for my club-racing C&C 36 XL/kcb, I investigated this pretty thoroughly. There 
are several articles in the last couple of years that actually compared this 
parameter (among others) between different props in drag tests with the prop 
mounted on a boat. Google will probably find the articles for you.

I ended up with the Gori-racing prop after much discussion with experts (Geoff) 
at AB Marine about prop radius and pitch. This props' drag was the lowest 
(practically immeasurable), it's geared so it always opens and the pull in 
reverse is adequate (but a far cry from my Maxprop) for maneuvering into my 
slip in reverse. Of course, it also had to match the transmission regarding the 
reduction ratio, which needed to 
be consistent with the engine power curve, etc. IMHO, there were enough places 
for an amateur like me to screw up the selection process that it was worth the 
price of a new prop to be sure I didn't make an expensive mistake. 

I don't know about longevity yet but I am pleased with its sailing performance 
and can live with its reverse performance.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb






cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Bruno Lachance 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/Feathering Prop for 33-1



It depends of what you are looking for. I wanted to improve the performance of 
the boat sailing, more power motoring, with good reverse (not being the 
priority), less vibrations and an easy to maintain long term purchase. After a 
good look at what is on the market and a lot of reading i decided to go with a 
3 blades Flex-o-fold. My boat is a 33 mk II that came with a fixed 2 blades 
(16"x10RH). The company recomended 15x11 for the 3 blades and i have a lot of 
power with it (little over 6 knots at 2200 rpm in calm water) so it's economic 
on fuel too.
 
I did the mistake to cheap on a prop before and bought a martec on e-bay, it 
was too small and the performance motoring was crap with close to zero power in 
reverse. Worse summer on the water...
 
Yes buying new is expensive, but you wont regret your choice in the long run. 
After one season i would recommend my prop to anybody looking for the same 
compromise, i think it's a good fit for this racer-cruiser type of boat. It's 
the way i use it.
 
Good luck.
 
Bruno
Bécassine
33 mkII 87


 
 

  


> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 12:36:14 -0400
> From: bobmo...@gmail.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/Feathering Prop for 33-1
> 
> Thanks for all the replies.
> Ebay has a Martec RH 12 x 10P - 1" Shaft for only $195.
> It's right down the road (Green Cove Springs, FL).
> I could haul the boat and install it there.
> I wonder if the 12" diameter is way too small.
> I don't do a lot of motoring, mainly just off and back onto the dock.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martec-Eliptec-Feathering-Folding-Propeller-prop-RH-12-x-10P-1-Shaft-/130755867589?hash=item1e71a833c5&item=130755867589&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr#ht_838wt_169
> 
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Rod randow  wrote:
> > Bob,
> > My C&C 33-1 owner's manual (1976) lists props & engines supplied by C&C
> > Yachts as
> >
> > C&C 33 Std Atomic four - gas 16x10x1 2blade (fixed or
> > folder) (comes with V-drive 2:1 reduction standard)
> >
> > I have inquired at boat show about folding props for my boat and I believe
> > several companies were recommending something like 15x12. It was awhile ago
> > so the pitch may be wrong. I'm still using a fixed 16x10RH.
> >
> > Rod
> > C&C 33-1
> >
> >
> > On 9/4/2012 8:23 PM, Bob Moriarty wrote:
> >
> > I've been off the list for awhile as I was considering going to the
> > dark (non-C&C - but still sail) side. At any rate Ox and I have
> > renewed our vows and I am going to open the ol' checkbook and lavish
> > some attention on my 36 year-old beauty . I've already ordered a new
> > (used) headsail from Minney's. Now I'm thinking about a
> > folding/feathering prop to replace the two-bladed fixed prop I
> > currently have.
> > If there's a way to search the Stu's-List archives for prop
> > info/opinions I will do so.
> >
> > Ox is in the water year-round so it's not easy to verify some of my
> > assumptions. Ox has a rebuilt A4 (for sure, for sure) with a V-drive
> > (for sure) and a 2:1 reduction gear (I'm pretty sure) and a
> > right-hand drive (prop walk is to port). The prop is a fixed two-blade
> > but I have no idea as to it's size or pitch.
> >
> > Flex-o-fold has my attention as a replacement. I'm not into hardcore
> > racing but a 0.5 to 1.0 knot increase would be very satisfying.
> >
> > Opinions, experiences, and suggestions much appreciated.
> >
> > Bob Moriarty
> > Ox 33-1
> > Jax, FL
> >
> > _

Re: Stus-List Head Trouble

[cenelson]

The proposed solutions will probably do the trick. However, having suffered the 
same problem with my jabasco unit, now + 15 years old with several rebuilds, 
I bought the jabasco kit with a new 'locking' pump assembly.

With it is in the locked position, where it stays unless used, no water can 
return from anywhere back to the bowl.

Problem solved for about the cost of he usual rebuild kit cost and it hasn't 
returned in the 3-4 years since I replaced it.

The bolts match exactly so you unbolt/unhose
the old pump assy, pitch it, rebolt/rehose the new one in about 15 minutes.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC

cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Trouble


Steve

We have had a similar problem on the 115 - also a Jabsco manual flush
head.  In our case the water was backflowing from the discharge hose
into the bowl.  Our solution was to over pump for approx 20 seconds on
wet flush before pumping on dry flush.  That way the backflow would at
least be cleaner water!

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of OldSteveH
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Head Trouble

I've had this disgusting problem a few times and attributed it to
someone
over-flushing the head, but I think there's a problem with the head:

After a few days post-pump-out the head has back filled with blackwater
while sailing and once while at anchor.
First few times this happened I chalked it up to a guest over-flushing,
got
it pumped and went on my way.

The Jabsco head is 3 years old. The system was completely redone by
previous
owner.
It was a very well done job, no mickey mouse stuff on the surface, all
new
hoses and recommissioned blackwater tank.
I checked the Jabsco manual and all appears to be piped correctly.

The last trip was the last straw. I had to go below every 10 minutes and
scoop some very disgusting water out of the bowl and pour down sink
drain
otherwise it would have overflowed. After a couple of hours of this the
shine wears off, believe me.

So - my plan is to take out the pump/valve assembly and look for a
failed
seal.
Should the head discharge hose-to-tank have a check valve in it? I think
not
because it would become fouled with solids.
I'm aware of principles of siphoning but short of drawing a diagram I
don't
think siphoning is the problem.
I can't think of anything besides a failed seal.

Help!


Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Stus-List Holes in deck

[cenelson]

I am In the process of replacing my instrument set which is housed in a NavPod 
1x4 above the companionway mounted to a stainless steel
U-shaped pipe bolted to a cross member of the hatch cover assembly.


With some work, I managed to cut a 7/8" hole in this pipe and another in the 
binnacle guard for the Garmin chart-plotter NMEA 2000 network cable.


In order to get the cable from the NavPod below deck, I had previously cut a ~ 
5/8" - 3/4" hole beneath the hatch cover assembly. I lined this with a short 
portion of a plastic hose jammed in and initially above the surface of the deck 
thru which it penetrates. Of course over time its extension above the surface, 
which prevented water from getting into this hole, was broken off so that now 
in any kind of rain, I get lots of water pouring thru this hole.


The single cable which now must go thru this hole is ~ 1/4 to 3/8" and will fit 
but my question is the following:


What is the easiest, semi-permanent solution to seal the hole with the cable in 
it. I could mix up an epoxy/filler and seal it relatively permanently but as 
this is my 3rd set of instruments, I don't think a permanent solution is the 
answer. I could use some butyl tape jammed around the cable or maybe some messy 
silicon caulk.


I haven't come up with anything else, short of repeating my previous method 
with a hose stand-off above the surface to prevent rainwater from entering.


I am sure the list members have likely faced similar problems and come-up with 
alternate solutions.


Suggestions welcome.


Thanks,


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville,NC









cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Holes in deck

[cenelson]

I may have it wrong but from the diagrams on the site, it looks like one drills 
a hole in the deck (or uses one already there), puts the cable thru all the
cable clam pieces and then tightens the screws provided.


This looks like it both compresses and seals the rubber gasket around the cable 
and seals the device to the deck via the
provided flat rubber seal/washer. 


Thus no water can get in via the cable/gasket path nor rubber seal/washer of 
the device to the deck.


OTOH, never having seen the device "...in the flesh...", I could have it wrong.


In any event, I am ordering one tomorrow and will soon find out!


Charlie Nelson





cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck



Since it attachesd to the deck with fasteners and also uses fasteners to 
compress the rubber bushing, one should be able to drill the holes in the deck, 
dry fit it, then pull it up, cut a slot in both pieces and the rubber bushing, 
slide the cable through the slots in all and fasten it to the deck and compress 
it.
 
Dennis C.




From: Rich Knowles 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck


That's fine. Now what about the compression nut?

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2012-09-23, at 17:36, "David Blair"  wrote:

If you can make a clean slit in the rubber bung to the hole you drill for
the wire size it will fit over the wire then seal nicely when compressed -
did that with the radar cable when it had a large plug installed on each
end. They work well. Cheers

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: September-23-12 1:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck

They are excellent, use them all the time, but they have to be installed
over the hole and then run the wires. I understood the challenge to be how
to seal the holes with the wires already run. Hence the goop suggestion. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2012-09-23, at 17:10, Charles Nelson  wrote:

Just what I need!

The list never ceases to come thru!!

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 23, 2012, at 8:09 AM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

> Will one of these things fit?
 ; I have four of them
for various wires that must pass through the deck.  You can add and change
wires over time, and they're *totally* waterproof.  Heck, two of them handle
wires from my solar panels, which pass through the deck by a stanchion base.
Probably the wettest place on the boat when sailing in any kind of swell.
> 
> Wal
> 
> cenel...@aol.com wrote:
>> What is the easiest, semi-permanent solution to seal the hole with the
cable in it.
> 
> 
> --
> s/v Stella Blue
> http://www.wbryant.com/
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Holes in deck

[cenelson]

I may not have been clear regarding the original problem. 

In fact, I am replacing the current wires in the hole with new ones from the 
new, networked instruments. Thus if the cable clam works and fits where I need 
it, it should solve my problem.

Thanks again for the info about these.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Rich Knowles 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck


You are correct. However, unless I'm stunned, the original problem was how to 
seal up a hole in the deck with the wires already installed. Maybe I'm 
stunned Mmmm?


Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax


On 2012-09-23, at 23:43, cenel...@aol.com wrote:


I may have it wrong but from the diagrams on the site, it looks like one drills 
a hole in the deck (or uses one already there), puts the cable thru all the 
cable clam pieces and then tightens the screws provided.


This looks like it both compresses and seals the rubber gasket around the cable 
and seals the device to the deck via the
provided flat rubber seal/washer. 


Thus no water can get in via the cable/gasket path nor rubber seal/washer of 
the device to the deck.


OTOH, never having seen the device "...in the flesh...", I could have it wrong.


In any event, I am ordering one tomorrow and will soon find out!


Charlie Nelson





cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck



Since it attachesd to the deck with fasteners and also uses fasteners to 
compress the rubber bushing, one should be able to drill the holes in the deck, 
dry fit it, then pull it up, cut a slot in both pieces and the rubber bushing, 
slide the cable through the slots in all and fasten it to the deck and compress 
it.
 
Dennis C.




From: Rich Knowles 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck


That's fine. Now what about the compression nut?

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2012-09-23, at 17:36, "David Blair"  wrote:

If you can make a clean slit in the rubber bung to the hole you drill for
the wire size it will fit over the wire then seal nicely when compressed -
did that with the radar cable when it had a large plug installed on each
end. They work well. Cheers

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: September-23-12 1:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck

They are excellent, use them all the time, but they have to be installed
over the hole and then run the wires. I understood the challenge to be how
to seal the holes with the wires already run. Hence the goop suggestion. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2012-09-23, at 17:10, Charles Nelson  wrote:

Just what I need!

The list never ceases to come thru!!

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 23, 2012, at 8:09 AM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

> Will one of these things fit?
< " target="_blank"http://bluesea.com/category/82/productline/overview/1> ; I 
have four of them
for various wires that must pass through the deck.  You can add and change
wires over time, and they're *totally* waterproof.  Heck, two of them handle
wires from my solar panels, which pass through the deck by a stanchion base.
Probably the wettest place on the boat when sailing in any kind of swell.
> 
> Wal
> 
> cenel...@aol.com wrote:
>> What is the easiest, semi-permanent solution to seal the hole with the
cable in it.
> 
> 
> --
> s/v Stella Blue
> http://www.wbryant.com/
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Holes in deck

[cenelson]

Looks like it would do the trick but unfortunately, my Garmin wire has network 
connectors attached which would need to either go thru the piece or be cut and 
redone.

The cable clam appears to allow a connector thru and still be able to tighten 
onto the cable.

Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom 36 XL/kcb




cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:34 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Holes in deck


Have you considered one of these: 
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=35103&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50566&classNum=50567#.UGB8q67UCj0
 (Anchor Marine Through Deck wire seal).
 
I have one on my 24 and it hasn't leaked in 4 years.
 
Marek
s/v Fennel
C&C 24
Ottawa

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Stus-List Winch surfaces

[cenelson]

Hey listers;
?
My primary winches (Lewmar 48-52 (?), grey color, not chrome) have lost most of 
their initial roughness so that now it
takes more turns than it should for the line to not slip. Given that they have 
been used regularly for ~ 17 years for club racing, 
I am not disappointed nor surprised.
?
Inside they are fine for their age and have been more or less regularly 
serviced.
?
My question is what is the best/cheapest/etc. way to get them 'roughed' up 
again. 
?
I?thought that having them sandblasted with coarse sand?could do it or maybe 
just some rough hand sanding.
?
Any others suggestions or thoughts on this problem would be appreciated. New is 
not an option!
?
Thanks,
?
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb 1995
Greenville, NC?


cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List nav station seat

[cenelson]

Haven't done that but been there with my 36 XL/kcb. 


It has a piece of SS tubing surrounded by padding/cover which matches the 
settee's ultrasuede. It is secured
by two SS pipe holders (?) into which it slips tightly which are screwed down 
to the wood beneath the starboard settee and another, higher up, screwed down 
to the
starboard 'ledge' behind the seat back. 


Easily removed for sleeping and very sturdy when in place and leaned on. I 
think it was standard on the 1990's C&C 36 of most variations.


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
Greenville, NC


 


cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Indigo 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Oct 2, 2012 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List nav station seat


My PO left some seats for this purpose but I found them always in the way. But 
how about a stadium seat such as 
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stansport-Folding-Stadium-Seat-with-Arms-Green/10154038


--
Jonathan




On Oct 2, 2012, at 19:52, "Pete Shelquist"  wrote:




I have a ’84 37 in which the nav station seat is the quarter birth – not 
uncommon for a lot of boats this size.  
 
I’ve been kicking around ideas to have some sort of back rest or dedicated seat 
while working at the station.  Anyone been there/done that yet?
 
Thanks,
 
 


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Re: Stus-List Deck Cleaning Help

[cenelson]

I just power washed my 16 year old deck and it cleaned up easily.
?
OTOH, I am looking at pretty 'flat white' (non-painted) gel-coat. 
?
Also, I need to redo my non-skid for the 2nd time soon, probably with the Kiwi
stuff which was well reviewed by Practical Sailor recently. 
?
Ideally this will be my last non-skid application and while I like the presumed 
permanence of the glue-on stuff like Treadmaster, its cost is a lot more than 
the paint-based stuff.
?
In the interim, what does the list like for 'easily' shining up the deck--the 
non-non-skid portion?? Water Phantom takes a lot of NC sun year round and will 
probably need the deck painted when I do the non-skid.
?
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC


cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: dwight veinot 
To: wal ; cnc-list 
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 10:50 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Cleaning Help




I understand that rust stains and those brown stains we see just above the 
water line, at least we get them here in St. Margaret's Bay, are actually 
very fine particulates in nature and these small particles penetrate into 
the gel coat or paint.  Getting rid of them requires more than elbow 
grease...it requires something that can get in there and dissolve those 
micron and submicron sized particles so they can be flushed out...when 
totally broken down into the constituents ions they are colourless in 
solution and acidic solutions or acidic pastes like oxalic, hydrochloric and 
phosphoric acids can dissolve these particles quite readily and presto...the 
stain is gone.  Same for rust and manganese deposits that form in toilets 
that are flushed with water which contains iron and manganese particles like 
iron oxide hydroxide for example.  Useless information maybe but it's a slow 
day here. 
 
Dwight Veinot 
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna 
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS 
-Original Message- 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally 
Bryant 
Sent: October 22, 2012 10:49 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Cleaning Help 
 
Liz - For the rust rings, try FSR (Fiberglass Stain Remover) from Davis  
Instruments.  Google it for a million sources. 
 
I had always assumed it was just Oxalic Acid thickened up a bit, but  
there must be something else in there as it works a lot better than an  
Oxalic Acid paste.  I just tried it on a lark, as I have a tendency to  
develop the worlds worst rust streaks down my transom from the mounting  
hardware on my Monitor and the teak shelf that sits underneath it.  This  
stuff removed the streaks in less than 5 minutes after applying it with  
a paint brush and no scrubbing other than using the brush to keep the  
stain wet. 
 
Wal 
 
  Liz Mather wrote: 
> and secondly he left 
> tools and the setol can (metal) on the deck and obviouly during a rain 
> storm and stained the decks with the metal so I now have a metal ring on 
my 
> deck in two places 
 
 
--  
s/v Stella Blue 
www.wbryant.com 
 
 
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Re: Stus-List 39 Mk1 again - rudder issue

[cenelson]

My C&C 36 XL/kcb has, by necessity, a relatively short rudder so that it is no 
deeper than the keel/cb trunk at ~ 4.5 feet.


In an effort to slightly improve it while maintaining its depth, my sailmaker 
suggested adding small 'winglets' to it near the bottom on both sides, which I 
did.

Don't know if it helped very much but going deeper was not a practical option 
in the the NC sounds.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C XL/kcb
Greenville, NC



cenel...@aol.com




-Original Message-
From: Gary Nylander 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List 39 Mk1 again - rudder issue


I can't comment about a 39, but a friend decided he had enough fun with 
ound-ups and unintentional jibes with his 27-3 (with another friend 
riving, he commented that he was "standing on the mast" during one of these 
ound-ups) and had a deeper and more modern looking rudder put on it. 
mazing difference! The new one was deeper and went straight down instead of 
ooking like a shark fin.
Gary Nylander
hesapeake Bay
 Original Message - 
rom: "Adam Holmstrom" 
o: 
ent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:31 PM
ubject: Stus-List 39 Mk1 again - rudder issue


 Raced By and By for the first time, a round the clock distance race in the 
 Baltic. We went for an offshore distance strategy, to the Island of Gotska 
 Sandön and via various other checkpoints back to the starting point. We 
 did OK, about 140 NM. Half of the time we had a broad reach of about 18 
 kts and approx  2m waves from aft. She was crazy, very very difficult to 
 handle and twice we jived inadvertantly so the question is, has anyone 
 changed rudder, and if so is there a better design around? I am OK with 
 the spade concept but I think it needs to go deeper.

 Adam Holmstrom
 By and By, C&C 39 1972 in Tockholm, Sweden


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Stus-List Centerboard issues

[cenelson]

Mine is a 1995 XL/kcb so YMMV. Plus there are others on the list who may have 
an identical c/b model to yours.

With those caveats, here goes:

Your center board is probably a weighted board--not just a piece of fiberglass. 
If it is anything like mine, it could weigh close to 1000 lbs.
I have a 3:1 purchase and a #30 Lewmar self tailing winch to raise mine and it 
is tiring.

If it isn't weighted, your cb trunk may be filled with living and dead sea 
creatures, especially if it was not moved up and down much in the past.

Of course it could be weighted and filled up with crud as well!.

If it is similar to the design used on my boat, the only way to reach the 
inside of the cb trunk is to lower the board completely until it rests on the 
forward part of the 
trunk with the pennant (cb cable) completely loose. This may mean undoing the 
cable stop mechanism on the cabin top and having the boat in the travel lift 
during this
inspection/clean-out.

Otherwise, the yard will likely need to dig a hole under your keel to let it cb 
down completely. They will likely 'balk' at having your boat up high enough on 
jack stands to do this without a hole.

Of course most yards are not fond of either of these solutions!

If you do lower the board completely, replace the pennant and any fittings 
attached and inspect/replace if necessary all the sheaves and water tight seals 
that define the path
of the pennant as it goes from the board to your cabintop. These may be a 
little 'tired' after all these years!

 Also this is a good time to thoroughly clean/paint/fair/etc. the keel/cb trunk 
and board.

OTOH if you don't need/want the higher pointing ability that the deep board 
provides, you could just 'pin' it in the up position permanently and ...'forget 
about it".

I know several C&C cb cruisers who have done this and never worry about the 
board--especially if the cb trunk also serves as a serious, shoal draft keel in 
its own right.

Good luck and welcome to the list.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
Greenville, NC


cenel...@aol.com



-Original Message-
From: Lisa Lias 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List 39 Mk1 again -> to Mazatlan


Thank you so much! We just got her moved to her new home before Sandy hit. 
Quite a baptism, but she did fine. 

Now here's a question for those with centerboards: ours is tight. It will go up 
and down but it's a bit of a job, (at least compared with our 22 foot Rhodes we 
sold to help pay for this boat.)

The surveyor didn't think it was anything major. But has anyone else had this 
issue? Are we going to need to have the whole thing taken out and out back in? 
If so, what is THAT like?

Any input is appreciated, and thanks again for the welcome.

See some of you on the Bay,

Ron and Lisa
un-named 35 mk III
Rhode River


On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Joel Aronson  wrote:

Ron, Lisa, 
Welcome and congrats!  I have a 35/3 just north of you on Mill Creek, and there 
is another person here with a 35/3 centerboard in Rock Creek.
I've only had mine a year, but I've done a lot of upgrades with a lot of help 
from the list, and would be happy to answer any questions.


Joel
35/3
The Office
Annapolis
301 541 8551




On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Lisa Lias  wrote:

We just got our 35 mk III - Greetings, List! - but this made us drool.

Ron and Lisa
35 mk III, name change pending ceremony 
Rhode River MD



On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Russ & Melody  wrote:



Ditto!

At 10:53 AM 02/11/2012, you wrote:

I'm in.


From: "Frederick G Street"
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 11:48:03 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List 39 Mk1 again - rudder issue

I'm in -- let's everyone on the list go in for a few bucks, and we 
cantimeshare…   :^) 

It's 34F here right now.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield,WI   :^(

On Nov 2, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Jim Watts wrote:


I noticed last week that Outrider is for sale. It's tempting, thatboat has been 
almost totally fixed up, according to the listing.Mazatlan...nice and warm this 
time of year.







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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551


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Stus-List Lewmar Ocean Hatch Lens replacement

[cenelson]

I have size 20 Lewmar Ocean hatch that has a crack near the single handle. I 
have found info 
on the Lewmar site about how to disassemble the lid for possible lens 
replacement.

Anyone done this or should I just bite the bullet and by a replacement lid with 
lens fitted?



Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
 


cenel...@aol.com

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Stus-List Re: need fuel pump for Universal M4-30

[cenelson via CnC-List]

I added a pair of in-line filter/pumps (in parallel and electrically 
switchable).
After multiple engine stalls over many months and the subsequent searches for 
vacuum leaks/fuel starvation/etc. ad nauseam my mechanic suggested I bypass the 
Beta-28 fuel pump. He thought that it was likely working OK but its lift was 
barely enough to reliably deliver fuel under all conditions.
However, between the Racor, fuel pick-up tube, new fuel tank, all new fuel 
hoses, filters, etc. including distorting the Racor top by over tightening and 
then replacing it, the exact cause of the problem may never be known!
Bottom line is that this fuel PITA has not reoccurred since I added the 
electric pumps. Perhaps not totally understood, but the problem is now gone.
FWIW and YMMV
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36XL/kcb



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On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, 11:40 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
 wrote:

All - I will assume this engine consumes less than 1 gal per hour and all that 
the pump does is provide lift - pretty non critical as far as fuel pumps go.
This type is commonly used in smaller displacement vintage car restorations, 
and would assume aircraft.   Reputable brand, very basic.  At C$60  buy two and 
keep one as a spare.  
https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/pnpages/40106.php?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpONQOKjx8iPBFkovKXohPDNEeRiZQF7H6kvcQa4CIHv4rFnw6ryIQaAvV8EALw_wcB
Any reason that this would not be suitable?
FWIW - I replaced my original 2GM20 yanmar mechanical fuel pump this season, 
and only after the priming shaft O-ring began to seep.    Didn't really see the 
need to go to an electric pump and I like the integral priming lever.  Not sure 
why folks seem to convert these to electric pumps if the OE pump is long lived, 
self powered and integrated with the engine?  Any thoughts?
Dave





On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 at 09:35, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

   Hey Dwight, 
   
   Back in 2003, I got a fuel booster pump from NAPA.  It cost around $110 
then.  
   The original on my boat was black and had no markings so the counter guy 
selected a pump with low a pressure rating which matched one used by Nissan 
pickups. 
   
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R
  
  On 08/17/2021 1:35 AM Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   

   Universal (westerbeke now) has them, but the prices are quite high.   In the 
US, a NAPA store can get them for about half the price.  Mine was about 125$.   
Now I'm waiting for a cool day to get below and install.  My engine is the 
M25XP but I would imagine that it wouldn't be any harder for the M4-30.   Ron   
Wild Cheri   C&C 30-1   STL   
  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Painting cabin headliner

[cenelson via CnC-List]

I had my main cabin head/ceiling brush painted with 1 part Brightsides 
(Pettit?) White and it looks better than new—especially the plastic hole covers 
which now finally match the ceiling. Amazing how much nicer/finished this looks 
compared to the original. 
Of course about 25 years have gone by since the boat was new—that might have 
something to do with it! :>)
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom


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On Wednesday, August 25, 2021, 10:28 AM, WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

On my 1981 C n C 36 the cabin interior headliner is a vinyl glued to a thin 
sheet of Luan plywood.  I have removed all and am going to seal coat the 
plywood with epoxy.  Wondering if anyone painted theirs and how it turned out 
and lasted.  I see some spray paint for plastics and wonder if that might work. 
  I could remove the vinyl and start over but that seems like a lot of 
work...Bill WalkerEvening StarPENTWATER, Mi.Thanks to all of the subscribers 
that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to 
show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Another Solar question

[cenelson via CnC-List]

I use a ~ 30 watt solar to keep my batteries topped off without using shore 
power even when it is available. It is wired directly to my start battery and 
my ACR keeps both batteries topped off.
My question is should I put a fuse in the positive output from the solar 
controller—IIRC it has a MPPT controller—to prevent a disaster in case a short 
develops anywhere in the panel/controller/hook-up/ etc.?
If so, about what size fuse?
Thanks,
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom

My question is should 


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On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 4:39 PM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Does your bilge pump run that much in a week to drain your batteries. Must be a 
lot of water getting in
On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 4:35 PM Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Hi all, 
So, I took the solar panels and the Bimini in for the hurricane that was coming 
least week. And I had to keep them off for the week because I couldn't get back 
to the boat, and the batteries went down to 11.4 I guess running the bilge pump 
all week. I put the panels back up and I'm getting the voltage out of them but 
the victron is not charging the batteries.  Would this be an indication that 
the batteries charge has gotten too low and that the Charger won't start the 
charge?


Thanks, Danny
 Original message From: Stu via CnC-List 
 Date: 8/29/21 12:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: C&C Email List 
 Cc: Stu  Subject: Stus-List Don't 
forget the upcoming rendezvous 
Good afternoon Don’t forget our next online/virtual rendezvous on Tuesday,Aug 
31, 2021 07:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada). You must register in advance 
for this 
meeting:https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZUtdeGrpj0iGNCGFaM3Jukol37WHaa09Z9e
  After registering, you will receive information about joining the meeting. 
Hope to see you there. Stay safe ‘n’ healthyStuThanks to all of the subscribers 
that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to 
show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
-- 
Sent from Gmail MobileThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the 
list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: universal M20 diesel question

[cenelson via CnC-List]

If it runs freely and rpms increase normally w/o trans engaged, I would look at 
the trans, packing gland too tight/shaft not aligned/cutless 
bearing/etc.——-something that is ‘aft’ of the engine.
Charlie Nelson


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On Wednesday, September 8, 2021, 1:43 AM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I’d go with injectors.

Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660


On Sep 7, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Dave via CnC-List  wrote:





Evening all.   Trying to help a neighbour here with a diesel issue.   His 
engine will rev freely at idle but with the transmission engaged in either 
forward or reverse, revs increase very  slowly and only to 1800-2000 RPM on the 
tach.   (whether tach is accurate or not, RPM under load is much lower than 
no-load, and  RPM increases quite slowly.)

We have verified that neither the exhaust system nor the fuel supply to the 
high pressure pump is obstructed.  Air Intake is clear.  The speed lever works 
smoothly to its full travel.   The compression release is not engaged.  The 
engine runs a new facet electric fuel pump with plenty of flow.

When the engine is running, no fuel returns to the tank via the return line.  
The return line is not blocked, at least not downstream from the return barb at 
the injector.  I am not sure under what circumstances the fuel should return to 
the tank in a diesel, as the return occurs after the high pressure pump.  

  

All This leads me to suspect a fuel (volume) problem but i am not exactly sure 
where to look next.      I believe all that’s left are injectors and high 
pressure pump.  The high pressure pump has a governor, not sure if that 
functions by restricting fuel flow.

  

Any thoughts?

  

Many thanks!   Dave 33-2

  

Sent from Mail for Windows

  
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to 
all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs 
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contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


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Stus-List Re: C&C 25 mast fittings

[cenelson via CnC-List]

My local rigger is taking no chances re-rigging my 95 C&C 36XL. He sent it all 
to Rigging Only(?) in Rhode Is and will reinstall with new which has been 
matched exactly.
Some parts of older rigging are often not available and must be replaced with 
similar or manufactured ($$$) to match.  
I bit the bullet and paid an expert to reduce the chance of a personal gravity 
storm!!
CharlieWater Phantom


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On Wednesday, September 8, 2021, 4:49 PM, MICHAEL BRANNON via CnC-List 
 wrote:

You really need to disassemble the rigging and measure the fittings to ensure 
you get the correct size T-Ball fittings and that they fit into the backing 
plates.   On most boats I re-rig I don’t order parts until I have disassembled 
the rigging and know exactly what I  need.   If you are going to do it yourself 
I’d recommend that you use either Sta-Lok  or Hayn Hi-Mod fittings.  
Mike 
Mike BrannonVirginia Lee 932951978 C&C 36 CBVirginia Beach, VA




On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Stephen Kidd via CnC-List  
wrote:
Greetings,
We are planning to replace our standing rigging this fall and I'm trying to 
figure out what type of upper fitting is needed for the shrouds. The owner's 
manual (1980 C&C 25 mkII) simply says "T-ball" for the forestay and upper/lower 
shrouds. Looking around, it appears there are a number of variants out there. 
Assuming that T-ball and T-bar are the same in this case (please correct me if 
I'm wrong on this point), I'm thinking they would be of the "old style" since 
it is a 1980 model. Does anyone happen to know what sort of fittings we'll need 
for the upper ends? We'll be ordering (local riggers seem to be unavailable and 
the only estimate I got was $6,000), which leaves us on the hook for figuring 
out the details. 
We're planning on sending a GoPro up to take some pictures and look around at 
things later this week, but we really don't know what to look for (any 
identifying characteristics?). Step ladders make me nervous, so I'm happy to 
let the camera make the first ascent. 
Thank You!Stephen KiddC&C 25 - Sweet ChariotWashington DCThanks to all of the 
subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If 
you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --  
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: C&C 33-II vs 35-II now race course design

[cenelson via CnC-List]

W/L racing is also ‘encouraged’ by some PROs when their mark boats are limited 
to only 1. Much easier to adjust the course if you only need to either adjust 
the line or move only 1 or at most 2 marks (W and L).
Moving a jibe mark efficiently to provide a ‘more perfect’ triangle usually 
requires another mark boat.
If your PRO is on the ‘perfect’ side, 
He/she will insist on moving all marks if the wind shifts significantly—more 
difficult and time consuming with a jibe mark.
Such a PRO lets ‘..the perfect be the enemy of the good..’ IMHO.
As a club PHRF racer and a sailor, I never expect a perfect course, W/L or 
triangle—you deal with what you have from nature,a shifting wind, waves, 
etc.Those sailors who adapt to conditions, including a skewed course, either 
better or faster or both or with a different sail, etc. will often be in the 
podium, not whining about the skewed course from their position in the audience.
If the sailors of long ago waited for perfect conditions, they would rarely 
been able to leave their home port!!
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom


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On Friday, September 10, 2021, 12:55 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 The problem is with the handicap numbers.  A triangle course has only  33% 
beat, if equilateral.  The more you spread out the offset mark, the less 
percentage the beat; the more you pull it in, the higher percentage beat.For 
PHRF to work, I believe they recommend at least a 40% beat.  Preferred is a 50% 
beat like a windward/leeward or a triangle with an extra beat.On a dead 
downwind course one should sail their best angle for the wind speed, not go 
dead downwind.  That's true even for the white sail fleet.  There was a great 
article decades ago about the pole adjusted forward to improve the broad reach 
for white sailed boats.  But with my filing system, I'll never be able to 
produce it if asked.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL

On Friday, September 10, 2021, 11:31:22 AM CDT, Della Barba, Joe via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
  
This is an ongoing issue with racing, everything is W/L dinghy racing no matter 
if your boat is 10 feet long or 110 feet long. Back in the day when men were 
men and sheep were scared we used government marks and you got what you got, 
reaches, beats, runs, whatever.
 
When I used to RC C&C races I decided dead downwind on a hot day was misery for 
the white sail fleet, so the spinnaker boats went on a W/L course and the 
non-spin fleet used the same windward mark but had an offset somewhere, say 
beam reach to the offset and then broad reach to finish. Less tactics but less 
heatstroke too!
 


  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: 36' wheel to tiller conversion?

[cenelson via CnC-List]

FWIW, I advise careful consideration of a hydraulic steering system.
I have only helmed one boat with such a system which we tried unsuccessfully to 
sail to Bermuda in November. 
Notwithstanding the folly of attempting such a crossing from NC after hurricane 
season (early November) but with nor’easters aplenty in this time frame, our 
Whitby 42 full keel cruiser was hydraulically steered. 
This steering was perhaps easy on the upper body but I found it to be a PITA in 
practice. The most annoying characteristic was the lag time/delay between a 
turn of the wheel and the subsequent response of the rudder/boat. I was only 
one of the crew and the boat was rigged for serious cruising but I never was 
able to get ‘in tune’ with this delay. 
Of course I was a novice steering a full keel (13000 lb) boat that displaced 
>30,000 lb so that contributed to my difficulties and never mind that the 
nor’easter we encountered a few days off NC destroyed our anemometer at 41 
knots.
YMMV but IMHO, hydraulic steering is an oxymoron!
Charlie Nelson

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, September 11, 2021, 5:36 PM, jacob fuerst via CnC-List 
 wrote:

It's currently chain and cable not hydraulic but I definitely feel the wheel 
load up in reverse and if you're not careful could whip a tiller over

 Jacob Fuerst
303-520-4669
On Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 9:41 AM Korbey Hunt via CnC-List  
wrote:

When using the engine there is a lot of torque on the tiller.  I suspect a 
hudraulic wheel system would be much easier to operate.
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 

Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 8:21:29 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: j...@dellabarba.com 
Subject: Stus-List Re: 36' wheel to tiller conversion? 
I used to sail my 35 with a tiller when it was raining until I got an 
autopilot. The tiller allowed me to get under the dodger.

I cannot see how the rudder stock would be under any more or less strain than 
with the wheel.

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C&C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

 

From: jacob fuerst via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 3:28 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: jacob fuerst 
Subject: Stus-List 36' wheel to tiller conversion?

 

Hi All,

 

Just thinking through converting my 1978 36 wheel to tiller. It seems very 
simple. The rudder stock is accessible on the cockpit floor and has a 1 1/4" 
square head where the emergency tiller goes. Many considerations but my 
question to you is if the factory floor and head and bearing construction are 
sufficiently strong to handle the regular forces of tiller steering or only for 
the forces to be through the quadrant below deck?

 

-- 

Jacob Fuerst

    303-520-4669
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Boat Donation to Charity?

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Where can I find more boat info—is she on a listing somewhere?
In particular, how has her cb been ‘permanently’ raised? What might be involved 
in making it retractable again?
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom



Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, September 11, 2021, 6:31 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Joe,
 No dead bodies. She surveyed great two years ago. 
The only thing she may need now is bottom paint. And that could wait a while. 

All the best, 
Edd
———-Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the “Starship Enterprise”C&C 37+ | 
Sail No.: NCC-1701-BVenice Yacht Club | Venice Island, 
FL———-914.774.9767   | Mobile———-Sent via iPhone 11 
ProiPhone. iTypos. iApologize

On Sep 11, 2021, at 2:50 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:

#yiv7901418626 #yiv7901418626 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered 
{}#yiv7901418626 #yiv7901418626 p.yiv7901418626MsoNormal, #yiv7901418626 
li.yiv7901418626MsoNormal, #yiv7901418626 div.yiv7901418626MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv7901418626 
span.yiv7901418626apple-tab-span {}#yiv7901418626 
span.yiv7901418626EmailStyle19 
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv7901418626 
.yiv7901418626MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv7901418626 
div.yiv7901418626WordSection1 {}#yiv7901418626 
Ed – gotta ask – is there a dead body in the boat? Core saturated? Seems like a 
nice boat.

  

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Stus-List Boat Donation to Charity?

  

Listers,

  

Any suggestions on a good charity to donate a boat to? Preferably one that will 
actually use the boat instead of selling it for charity funds (Fair market 
value deduction)

  

It looks like things are moving forward with the next Enterprise and I’d like 
to avoid paying two insurance and slip bills. 

  

(Meaning: Yes, I will sell this boat for dirt cheap at this point. Bring 
offers!)


All the best,

  

Edd

  

  

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL

  




    

  






  
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - StuThanks to 
all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs 
involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send 
contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: anyone gone lithium?

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Agree with Chuck and Randy.
The DIY approach many of us have with regard to our boat systems is not likely 
to be adequate for current Li batteries of which I know nothing except they can 
be charged rapidly and they keep going rather well until they don’t!
When the battery and charger manufacturers agree on some standard that a boater 
can understand without an EE degree, it might be time for Li. Until then, I 
will pass.
 I will stay with my simple Lead-acid batteries and standard battery 
chargers/alternators whose ‘bugs’ have been virtually eliminated during the 
last CENTURY of improvements to both.
OTOH, when Li batteries are as straightforward to hook up and charge as 
lead-acid, reasonably priced compared to lead-acid, available everywhere, etc. 
I will buy them as a better solution—not just because they are the ‘latest’ in 
battery technology.
FWIW,
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom



Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Tuesday, September 14, 2021, 12:17 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Agree with Randy.  The cost of Lithium batteries and all the necessary 
power/charging management devices, prohibits the purchase unless you plan to 
keep the boat for twenty or thirty years.  I would only do it for a newer, 
bigger boat that can support enough Solar Panels to be off grid, like a big 
cat.  Otherwise, keep it simple. 
   
   Several YouTube sailors have installed the system and I can find those links 
if interested.  Or google "Sailing Uma", "Ran Sailing", and/or "Sail Life" 
along with "lithium batteries"
   
   Chuck S
  
  On 09/14/2021 11:52 AM Randal Stafford via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
 What’s the upside?  
   I got seven years out of a pair of group 29s Everstarts from Walmart, just 
replaced for $90 each.  And I just replaced the alternator on my A4, which 
lasted 49 years.   
   But the way I use my boat doesn’t require having a state-of-the-art battery 
system.   
   Cheers,   Randy 
  
 
  On Sep 14, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
My batteries are about shot and I am thinking of going to lithium 
batteries. I have to say I thought I knew this stuff and it seems massively 
confusing with a ton of directly contradictory information. One big issue seems 
that if the BMS disconnects for any reason, that will do a lot of damage to 
your alternator and perhaps other equipment too. Add to that my regulator does 
not have a specific lithium setting, I would need to get into the custom menus 
and try and make one.   What seems to be the best bet is just to connect the 
alternator to the start battery and use a DC-DC charger to charge the lithium 
bank. Some of them also take solar input, so that saves me buying a solar 
controller with lithium settings, which is something else I don’t currently 
have.       Joe   Coquina  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to 
the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to 
the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
 Thanks - Stu  
  
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Eva faux decking

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Yes— but only the below deck stuff which is glued on—not sure if it’s the same 
stuff you are referring to.
Charlie Nelson


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Monday, September 20, 2021, 7:55 AM, Rod Stright via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Has anyone use the EVA teak marine decking?  If so do you recommend it and are 
you aware of a supplier here in Canada and/or Nova Scotia?

  

Rod

Halifax 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Fuel pump

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Had a similar problem to yours several years ago. After doing most of what you 
have done, my diesel mechanic suggested just replacing the Racor MA 500(?) top 
plate since even a little over tightening can push the middle down enough that 
the O-ring on the circumference will leak enough that after running for a while 
the air inside it gets into the fuel lines. 
This was a cheap enough thing to do that I did it—along with a few other 
‘fixes’ and the problem went away. 
Since it was not the only change I made, I can’t be certain that the new top 
plate solved the problem or if it was something else. 
Note I am pretty sure that the instructions for the Racor say to only hand 
tighten this plate or something similar—I now know why! 
Given how little extra tightening it would take at the Center to deflect the 
circumference/O-ring joint enough to suck air in, (probably a few microns could 
break the vacuum seal) and over time you have air bubbles that get to the 
engine or at least prevent fuel from getting to the engine.
FWIW,
Charlie Nelson


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 12:36 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I meant bypass the Racor, turn on the pump and collect fuel into a secondary 
container to test.  I agree that I would not run the engine that way.  I am 
presuming that the flow of fuel through the filter should be a good test of the 
system since the problem was I was getting air into the primary Racor holder, 
so a vacuum leak likely somewhere.  Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


On Sep 23, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Neil Andersen  wrote:

I would think that risky.  If the Racor is the issue because it is doing its 
job and there is particulate matter coming from the tank, bypassing it will 
allow the matter to get to the engine. 
Neil Andersen1982 C&C 32, FoxFireRock Hall, MD 21661484-354-8800From: David 
Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 9:36:44 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Fuel pump Hi Dennis- The Racor looks OK, but of course 
that says nothing.  I don’t know the Racor model but it is older since it does 
not have the threaded top that you can add a gauge to.  Since that is a more 
expensive alteration, I thought I would replace the fuel lines first and see if 
that fixes the problem.  If not, I thought I would bypass the Racor and see if 
it works that way and if so, replace the Racor itself.  Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


On Sep 23, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:
What type of fuel filter do you have?  If it's a Racor MA500, the top may be 
warped or the gasket may be cracked or displaced.  Those are not infrequent 
issues with that filter.  Either condition could result in air inleakage.

-- 
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAThanks to all of the subscribers that 
contributed to the list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show 
your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Bed-It Butyl Tape

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Try RV outfitters—Camping World carries wider and thicker butyl tape.
Charlie Nelson 


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, October 2, 2021, 9:29 AM, Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

A related question: does anyone know of a comparable butyl tape that is 
wider?


On 02.10.2021 08:14, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
> https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/butyl-tape-bed-it-1-2--x-50--roll-4482.html
> [3]
> 
> --
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 5:15 AM DJ via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> 
>> So,  marine-how-to is run by just one man and he had a stroke a few
>> weeks ago (I posted about it, here, at the time).  Last I heard he
>> was alert but had a long recovery ahead of him.  There is no one to
>> service the site or the store right now.  So, I believe they just
>> disabled the whole thing. 
>> 
>> It's going to take some searching to find the right stuff. 
>> 
>> Please, let us all know if you're able to find a source. 
>> 
>> Danny
>> 
>> On Oct 2, 2021 2:19 AM, Donald Kern via CnC-List
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I went to the web site  that
>>> this forum recommended to purchase a roll of Bed-It tape and did
>>> not find that the tape was available.  Did _Marine how to_ get
>>> out of the Butyl tape business?  Is there a recommended alternate
>>> ?
>>> 
>>> Don Kern
>>> _Fireball,_ C&C35 Mk2
>>> Bristol, RI
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to
>> help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to
>> the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
>>  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray [2]  Thanks - Stu
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> --
> [1] http://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape
> [2] https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> [3]
> https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/butyl-tape-bed-it-1-2--x-50--roll-4482.html
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list
> - use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


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costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: help with hull numbers

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Has it been determined that C&C never skipped some hull numbers as different 
modifications to say a 30 Mk I were incorporated.
In that case perhaps hull number 129 was followed by hull #200 which was the 
same ‘model’ but incorporated a new/improved something or other.
Skipping numbers in a sequence is not unheard of in many industries.
Charlie Nelson




Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Friday, October 8, 2021, 9:03 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I think 351 C&C 35 MKI and MK II combined. Only 147 MKII’s and 204 MKl’s.  And 
the marine carpenters did real nice teak work back in the mid 70’s and the 
hulls are thick solid polyester resin with glass fibre. No coring like balsa 
below the toe rail. Heavy and tough yet sleek looking and fast. No 
characteristic sword and dagger but unmistakable C&C quality.  I love the shear 
lines of my MKII and the extensive teak carpentry below decks. However, 
Considering the work required nowadays and the type of sailing I enjoy, I think 
I would trade my 35MKII for a good 30 MKI with diesel auxiliary power. On Fri, 
Oct 8, 2021 at 8:53 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
wrote:


I have a 1973 C&C 35 Mk I, so in 73 they were not on MK IIs yet. I am hull 
number 179. The number of boats they built seems inconceivable today and they 
weren’t cheap, we paid more for our USED 35 than we did for our house!

 

Joe

Coquina

 

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 5:37 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: help with hull numbers

 

I think you got it right. The C&C 30 MKI was a very popular design and my 
experience she is one helluva good boat. The company was turning out a lot of 
boats in 1974. My 35MK II hull 242 was also a 1974 model. I am not sure if 
there was a 1973 35MKII. Your 30 is one of the stiffest designs in the C&C line 
and slippery too. Good accommodations below as well. Congrats you got a good 
one. 

 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
-- 
Sent from Gmail MobileThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the 
list to help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
Thanks - Stu


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costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Insurance

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Will do—the agent was independent and perhaps under different rules from 
Progressive. I tried with him since the on-line process was a PITA but if I can 
save some money, I can take a little PITA.
Charlie Nelson


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 3:31 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:


>From their website:

Sailboat insurance limitations

We insure most sailboats and even cover racing usage, but we do have some 
limitations including:
   
   - Sailboats over 50 feet in length and valued at more than $350,000
   - Sailboats used as a primary residence (live aboards)
   - Sailboats that don’t meet published U.S. Coast Guard standards
   - Wood or steel hulls

I just upped my liability insurance cover to $500K for an extra $88 a year with 
no issues. Are you SURE about this? It took me about 10 minutes to get coverage 
online, try going straight to their website. 

  

Joe

Coquina

  

  

  

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:52 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

  

Info for the list--at least those in NC and maybe the rest of the US. 

  

Tried to get a Progressive policy for Water Phantom last week and after some 
delay, the independent agent said that Progressive no longer insures boats (or 
at least will not write new policies) for boats over 27 feet. 

  

Back to square one for me--Water Phantom is 36 ft!

  

Charlie Nelson



-Original Message-
From: Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Doug Robinson 
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

OOps,

Checked in with Progressive this morning and the lad that insisted I was 
covered for storing in Canada was wrong.  Refund will take 12 to 14 days and 
required some work to unwind in my paypal account.   So I will move my search 
to Canadian underwriters, anyone have a favorite in the Niagara or GTA area.  
Need to check to see if they will cover a 1976 C&C29 Mk1 before wasting our  
time...

FDR

On 9/29/21 9:25 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

I've had Progressive for the last twelve years.  Never had a claim.  No survey 
required during that time.  I got it mostly for liability and becasue marinas 
require it, but my policy also has a stated "cash value" in case of loss.  Each 
year the premium drops a little, (like $20) so I always renew.   

  

Chuck S


On 09/27/2021 4:11 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List  
wrote: 

  

  

I too am considering moving to Progressive to save ~ $1200 per year. 

  

I have never had a claim except for towing and now I use Boat-US for 
that--$250/year which I may drop. 

  

Before I switch, has anyone had any experience with the claims 
procedure/reimbursement from Progressive--good, bad or indifferent? 

  

Saving money on insurance is a fools errand if you have to hire a lawyer to get 
them to pay a claim. 

  

Charlie Nelson 

36 XL/kcb Water Phantom 

Greenville, NC 



-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
Sent: Mon, Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance

They didn't ask me for a survey. 


Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

  

  

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:48 AM Matthew via CnC-List  
wrote: 


When I switched to Progressive this year, I was told that the underwriting 
department would review the application and decide if a survey was needed.  
After reviewing the application, they decided a survey was not needed. 

  

Matt Wolford 

1976 C&C 42 Custom 

  

From: Glenn Henderson via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 10:57 AM 
To: Stus-List  
Cc: Glenn Henderson  
Subject: Stus-List Re: Insurance 

  

Did they require a full survey? 

  

Glenn and Lindsey Henderson 

C&C 41 

WeGo 

  

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:48 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 wrote: 


I recently received a renewal notice from GEICO (BoatUS). They said my 
insurance premium was reduced (from $1256 to $1226/year). Just for a check, I 
asked Progressive for a quote. Their price for the same amount of insurance was 
$487/year. I am now a Progressive customer. 

  

Alan Bergen 

35 Mk III Thirsty 

Rose City YC 

Portland, OR 

  

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!7MqgDHdT_VmgVntkqgpVX2PLoZU-m4LEgxz6ik17i-lnVDTWNuAjh_EHOC7KWmzP91g$
   Thanks - Stu 


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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Stus-List Re: Bottom Paints Again

[cenelson via CnC-List]

I hope my experience in brackish NC sound/rivers is similar. Tried it for first 
time this past spring.
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC&C 36 XL/kcb


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, October 23, 2021, 2:17 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

#yiv4134281910 #yiv4134281910 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered 
{}#yiv4134281910 #yiv4134281910 p.yiv4134281910MsoNormal, #yiv4134281910 
li.yiv4134281910MsoNormal, #yiv4134281910 div.yiv4134281910MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv4134281910
 a:link, #yiv4134281910 span.yiv4134281910MsoHyperlink 
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I know thissubject is as old as boats, but I think I commented in the spring 
that I wastrying a brand new paint and would report in the fall, so here it is. 
 It israining and chilly and not much else going on in the NE, so . ..
 
  
 
The paintis Pettit Odyssey Trinidad, and when I hauled a week ago the results 
were nothingless than amazing. All of the clubs haul out guys (and girl) were 
in awe, andsaid it was the cleanest boat the have hauled this year.
 
  
 
There wassome scum from the bow back amidships and going down a few inches, 
mostly onthe north side, oddly enough.  But the rest was amazingly clean. Of 
note, herein the Great Lakes over the last 10 years or so there has been some 
new growththat no one seems to know anything about, looks like a spider web 
growing allover the bottom, and there was NONE of that. No Zebra Mussels, 
nothing.
 
It iscalled ablative, but it is nowhere near as ablative as the previous 
year’spaint, very little came off with the pressure washer. Also, it called for 
twoinitial coats, I only used one. It goes on nice, and what I liked is that 
thereis no heavy copper falling out, you don’t seem to need to keep stirring it 
asyou go. In fact, I don’t think it has copper as we know it, Three 
Ingredients, CopperThiocyanate, Econea, and Zinc Pyrithione.   I wouldn’t 
consider it a racingpaint, but after a month, I might. One of the guys hauled 
his First 40 out andcleaned it (VC17) for the last race two weeks before his 
final haulout, and hisbottom was a mess, complete with ‘spiderwebs’ and Zebra 
Mussels. He was amazedto see how much scum was back on 2 weeks later.
 
  
 
I think it’sthe Zinc . .  . .Also, a $30 rebate going on.
 
  
 
Bill Coleman
 
Entrada, Erie, PA

  
 
  
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Temperature gauge on Yanmar

[cenelson via CnC-List]

Sounds like a great idea—I look forward to list ideas. One key is to place 
gauge where it can be seen easily—on the engine control panel is not ideal 
considering the contortions one must endure to read anything in most engine 
panels placed down low and with barely enough room to get your head in front of 
the gauges to read them!
Mostly thru ‘pilot error’, I destroyed my Yanmar 30 GMF? head when I lost all 
cooling water somehow and no alarm sounded—the stock temp sensor apparently 
needs water to work—no water, no alarm, no problem until the head gasket/head 
itself cracks!!
I now have an overflow tank on my Beta 28 that I check before any motor use to 
be sure there is water in the system.
YMMV,
Charlie NelsonWater OhantonC&C 36XL/kcb 




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On Wednesday, October 27, 2021, 1:37 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 
Has anyone installed a dedicated temperature gauge on a yanmar engine similar 
to 3GM30F?  Can it be as simple as attaching to the sender unit that goes to 
the idiot light on the control panel?
 
  
 
When a panel alarm goes off I usually shut down the engine immediately and 
forget to check which lamp was lit.  Would be nice to have a temp gauge for 
reference.  I do have an oil pressure gauge and would love to have both
 
  
 
Thanks
 
  
 
Mike Persistence
 
Haliofax
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Whisker pole with a 37/40+?

[cenelson via CnC-List]

You might also consider a Forte whisker or spin pole. I have both on Water 
Phantom and they have worked well for almost 20 years. 
When I bought mine (spin first) they were less expensive than the Forespar 
equivalent and the were made on a mandrel with biaxial carbon fiber impregnated 
with resin so they are both very strong—back then they were considered stronger 
than the Forespar equivalent.
Your current mileage may vary of course!
Charlie Nelson


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On Thursday, November 18, 2021, 2:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Bruce,
I have installed a whisker pole.  The link below is a folder for pictures of 
the entire mast project.  Inside is a folder for the whisker pole.  Forespar 
makes the telescoping pole with the adjustable T-track fitting and jaw.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1eSqX7wZP1r77hD84wDmGAQSI0Tqbn9xm
More details available upon request. 
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+Solomons, MD 
On Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 09:28 Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hello all,
I was wondering if you folks can give me some advice as to rigging a whisker 
pole on our 37/40+.  The boat, which has spent a good part of its time on the 
west coast of Florida, was previously named "Dagny" and saw its share of races. 
 Yet, the boat does not have a whisker pole ring/car on the front of the mast, 
and does not have a whisker pole onboard.  Nor does it have the equipment for a 
spinnaker pole, though the boat came with a symmetrical spinnaker.
I'd like to rig a whisker pole for use with our 150 Genoa and a large 
asymmetrical spinnaker.  
Funny thing is, at the gooseneck, there is a bolt that holds the two pieces 
together that has a ring mounted at the bottom.  I don't think it would get the 
perfect angle, but would it be that easy to rig the pole to that ring?  A photo 
of that bolt/ring can be found here:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5kalfn9slfidr/Gooseneck%20Fitting.jpg?dl=0
The 150 and the asymmetrical will both have the clew behind the mast most if 
not all the time I would be using it.  In the case of the big asymmetrical, I 
think it might be so far back as to bank up against the rigging, though 
obviously I haven't used one on this boat as of yet.

Can anyone provide any insights?  
Thank you!!!
Bruce Whitmore1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Looking for a transmission for a yanmar

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Joel:
I may have one that might work—came from Beta 28 that needed a different 
reduction ratio for the folding prop I installed.
If there is a chance it would work (need details of reduction ratio, etc.) it’s 
his for the shipping cost.
I can check out what this transmission’s specs are by middle of Jan—it’s nearer 
boat than I am currently!
OTOH, AFAIK it was the standard trans used on the Beta 28 in ~ early 2000s 
which was a drop in replacement for my the Yanmar 30 GFH(?—don’t remember these 
letter details!).
FWIW,
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36XL/kcb


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On Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 3:43 PM, Joel Delamirande via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Good afternoon sailors I have a sailor looking to buy a transmission For a 
yanmar 3HM35F or a replacement transmission Joel -- 
Joel Delamirandewww.jdroofing.ca
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Fwd: Forestay Backing Plate

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

This looks like a serious repair that involves the forestay which is essential 
for rig stability and boat/crew safety—much more than cosmetic IMHO.
I have done many cosmetic repairs to my boat, including some serious 
fibreglass/epoxy work as well as building a wooden dinghy with the stitch and 
glue/epoxy method so I have what I call some serious experience, albeit 
‘amateur’ with this stuff.
FWIW, I would hand this serious structural repair off to a professional.
As a club racer, I and my crew have put my 1995 C&C XL/kcb in some pretty awful 
situations, mostly involving a kite, but I have never worried about a ‘gravity 
storm’, even with the boat on her side with 2 ft of water in the cockpit! 
Our boats were designed to be smarter than their owners (IMHO) and messing with 
structural issues might be unwise without professional input or repair. 
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36XL/kcb  



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On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 2:31 PM, Brian Morrison via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 


From: Brian Morrison 
Date: February 7, 2022 at 11:59:05 PM EST
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Forestay Backing Plate



 Hello All,
As I shared back in the summer I had an untimely rendezvous with a buoy that 
caused some pretty severe damage to the bow of my 1979 C&C 34. I am in the 
process of purchasing parts and supplies so when the weather permits I’ll be 
ready to work. I’m in need of advice as I have never done any extensive 
fiberglass work. What “system” should I use to make the strongest repair and 
best way to do it? Where can I obtain a new backing plate to attach the 
forestay or any recommendations on where I can have one made? Hopefully the 
pics won’t be too large to share. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks

Brian
Morrison

Stus-List Re: Cutting Board Sale

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

If actually used as a cutting board, is there a recommended stain/varnish/etc. 
to apply to the board to enhance its longevity?
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom


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On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 2:39 PM, Stu via CnC-List 
 wrote:


On Monday, 21st of February, most of us will be celebrating Family Day
in Canada and Presidents' Day in the USA.

In recognition of these holidays, the price for the customized cutting
boards is reduced -- no charge for boat name or special font.  A savings
up to $8.00.

This is a 1 day only sale.

Impress you wife, the admiral, your crew and dock mates with a
one-of-a-kind charcuterie/cutting board.

Stu

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/cutting_boards

cnc-list@cnc-list.com   cnc-list


cnc-list@cnc-list.com   cnc-list

Stus-List Keel wobble

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

1+ to recommendations for a serious evaluation of this issue by someone who 
really knows boats—naval engineer, architect, whatever, unless of course your 
sailing venue (current and future) is inshore in reasonable temperature waters 
and perhaps within easy reach of rescue and that you require all on board to 
wear PFDs all the time, etc.
Like most on this list, I am game to tackle most any boat repair, upgrade, 
modification, etc. However, and often at significant cost, I pay a professional 
to do jobs that are either beyond my wheelhouse or would require so much prep 
and research that it would take forever(allowing for amateur mistakes and 
redoing certain jobs when the first attempt goes ‘awry’ for one reason or 
another).
For any repair or upgrade that might send the boat to the bottom if it went 
awry (standing rigging replacement, hull deck joint refurbishment, centerboard 
pennant replacement, stuffing box issues, cutlass bearing replacement, etc.) I 
use a pro.
Of course with a ‘well found’ boat like C&Cs, there is seldom an issue with a 
design flaw at the seaworthy level—in fact I am confident that my boat design, 
whatever the details, resulted in a boat that is ‘smarter’ than her skipper and 
she will only permit me to screw things up but so far before her design saves 
my a— once again!

Most boat issues really aren’t ‘rocket science’ and are amenable to reasonable 
DIY fixes. IMHO, this keel wobble issue probably requires a nautical ‘rocket 
scientist’ (naval engineer, architect, etc. to have a look!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1985 C&C XL/kcb
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

Stus-List Re: Recommendation: Osprey Composites - Herrington Harbor, area Riggers

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Depending on your DIY skills and the local rigger fees, etc. you might consider 
the following which I recentlyhad done on my 27 yr old rod rigging on my C&C 36 
XL/kcb.
A local rigger removed and shipped my original rod rigging to BSI or Rigging 
Only (?) for them to duplicate exactly. He then installed the new rigging, 
tuned it and it was done— no issues at all with adjustments beyond normal 
tuning.
The local rigger figured that the shipping costs for the old rigging was worth 
it compared to a possible measurement error (on his dime) that could lead to a 
big mistake.
FWIW,
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/KobeWater Phantom

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On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 2:43 PM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
 wrote:


We recently looked at a boat on the Chesapeake which would need some deck balsa 
replacement work and a rigging inspection and possibly replacement of some / 
all (?) of the rod rigging.  

  

Osprey Composites at Herrington Harbor / Tracy’s Landing was recommended.  
Anybody have any information / opinion on them? 

  

The boat has 19 year old rod rigging and do not have firm information on the 
last time a rigging inspection was made – probably not in the past 11 - 12 
years when the current owner purchased the boat.  Can anyone recommend a good 
rigger who could do an inspection in the West River to Herrington Harbor 
vicinity?  The ability to inspect, and possibly fabricate new rod rigging is 
needed.  “The Rigging Company” is one name that keeps coming up.  Another is M 
Yacht Services rigging. Both seem to be on the higher end of the pricing 
spectrum.  Eastcoast Marine Rigging was another name, but am not certain if 
they have the capability / experience to fab new rod rigging.  Am not looking 
to change to wire.  Any opinions / suggestions on these two ? 

  

Many thanks,

Brian

Stus-List Re: butyl tape supplier

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I have used bed-it butyl tape for many bedding applications such as winches, 
ports, etc. with success, although I often wished it was available in thicker 
and wider dimensions. 
OTOH, butyl tape (not bed-it) is available at most RV stores and I have used 
this version with equal success.
The RV variety is both thicker and wider than bed-it but not as ‘sticky/tacky’ 
which can be a plus.(Bed-it stickiness can be a PITA getting it off its paper 
protective layer and your fingers).
YMMV,
Charlie Nelson Water PhantomC&C 36 XL/kcb 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Sunday, April 24, 2022, 8:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 You can get it here: 
https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?page=search&eSearch1=Butyl+tape+
It is a bit silly to get it from a store north of the border (that tape would 
be well traveled), but at least it is there.
The original source is no longer there (he had a bad stroke).
Hope this works
Marek
Ottawa, ON
Sent from my Android-based can on a string



 Original message From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 Date: 2022-04-24 17:54 (GMT-05:00) To: "CNC boat 
owners, cnc-list"  Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
 Subject: Stus-List butyl tape supplier 
 Original message From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 Date: 2022-04-24 17:54 (GMT-05:00) To: "CNC boat 
owners, cnc-list"  Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
 Subject: Stus-List butyl tape supplier 
Anyone know where to order Bed-It butyl tape?  Everything I tried was deadend.  
Please share a working link.

Chuck S

Stus-List Re: Batteries again

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I agree!
You might also look at Northstar (?) all virgin lead AGM batteries that come 
with (or used to) a very good warranty—full replacement up to 3 yrs IIRC.
Sold at Batteries plus stores (and probably others). One of my crew left the 
fridge on when he left the boat and ruined 2 31 size Northstar near the end of 
the full replacement date and they were replaced with NEW ones at no charge.
With that kind of customer service, I bought another Northstar from them for my 
start battery.
YMMV but I would buy them again when necessary.
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 11:40 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote:


There is a lot of reason to be concerned about off brands. Pretty much all 
cycling batteries of the same size will be about the same AH rating. There is 
no magic in lead batteries, the AH per pound is pretty consistent.  What 
matters *hugely* is the number of cycles that they can endure before being 
trashed. The various cheap Chinese imports are highly variable to say the 
least, their reviews are all over the place. Lifeline is usually considered the 
best AGM maker. 

FYI – Deka makes all the West Marine AGMs, you might call around your local 
battery shop and see what they charge. They are worse than Lifelines, but if 
they crap out after a week at least you can return them to the store 😉

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C&C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

  

  

  

From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:25 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Batteries again

  

I have been following the battery discussion and have a question.  I need to 
replace my two 9 year old AGM batteries this season.  I have separate start and 
house batteries which can be combined if needed.  I don’t have large power 
needs (electronics, autopilot and fridge when cruising).  I have been reading 
and researching this and I am unsure of what to purchase.  From what I have 
read, AH is the important number to focus on.  Last time, I got Lifeline AGM 
group 27 from Defender.  Defender has 3 different group 27 batteries

Powertech rated at 92AH  which cost about $330

Lifeline      rated at 100AH for 432

Northstar   rated at 92AH for 457

  

>From Amazon, I can get a VMAX group 27 with 100AH for $289 or a Universal with 
>110 AH for $239.  Is there any reason to be concerned about less known (to me) 
>brands from Amazon or does it make sense to just focus on the numbers?  
>Thanks- Dave  

  

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




  

Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

A great idea although my mast is not routinely removed—twice since new in 1995.
At least this solution allows the cable to be disconnected and reconnected 
without cutting it, which the Shakespeare connector requires.
Of course, I would need a ‘crimper’ for the male connectors—as another poster 
proclaimed “…it never ends…”
Charlie
PS: I am going to lean hard on the yard to do this fix—they were the one who 
broke it—as other listers have suggested!


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Monday, May 30, 2022, 8:57 AM, Hoyt, Mike  wrote:


You should put a connector there anyway so that you can remove the mast in the 
future.  Majority of boats at our club take down mast every year and are set up 
this way.  Basically same connector as at radio and antenna ends of the cable 
with a  barrel connector
 
  
 
From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: May 28, 2022 7:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes
 
  
 
About 8" from where it enters the bottom of the mast in the bilge (dry). Except 
for working on my old knees and removing part of the sole, it is reachable. I 
have not found the other end that goes to the radio but I suspect it is hidden 
under the sole that I must remove to see/find it. 
 
  
 
Charlie


 
-Original Message-
From: Andy Frame via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Andy Frame 
Sent: Sat, May 28, 2022 4:26 pm
Subject: Stus-List Re: Antenna cable woes
 

Where is the cut?
 

On 5/28/2022 12:07 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
> The yard that removed my mast to replace the rod rigging just cut the
> mast antenna cable and so I either have to have another cable run or
> 'splice' the current cable using one of the Sheakspeare fittings that
> claim to connect the shield and the conductor without solder, etc.
>
> Has any one on the list used such connectors and had any luck (or hints
> on how to proceed!) or am I faced with running new cable and the expense
> of someone to climb the mast, etc. The connector was only $16 so I
> figured it was worth that much to give it a try.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom C&C 36 XL/kcb
> New Bern, NC
 

>
>
>

--
s/v MaryMe
1975 C&C 24
Port Labelle, FL USA
Amateur Radio WD4RCC 
 
  
 

Stus-List Re: air conditioner pump

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

+1 on Dometic.
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36XL/kcb


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On Tuesday, June 14, 2022, 11:45 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:

March/Dometic.  Most reliable in my opinion.
--
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 10:16 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

   Hey guys, 
   
   I need to replace the air conditioner pump and wondered if anybody has 
recommendations.
   
   Chuck
  

Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

OTOH, as I age I often forget that I fixed/replaced/rebuilt/etc. a particular 
piece of gear previously—often even forgetting how I fixed it before.
Thus most projects are ‘new’ to my aging brain!
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC&C 36XL/kcb


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 7:54 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 
I think I am going to use the sew-on cover again, the sock seems a little 
involved. Last time I had a UV cover done it was $500 or so, inflation sucks. I 
am going to ask around a few places. One thing that can bug you about an old 
boat is fixing the same stuff over and over. I am after batteries again and 
that isn’t going to be cheap either just like the last time or the one before 
that or the one before that….
 
  
 
To make it even worse, going to Saint Michael’s on Saturday the wind was 
CRANKING from astern, way too much for the spinnaker, the genoa is in the shop, 
and I don’t even have my working jib anymore. We ended up using just the main 
and that was good for hitting 8 knots, but the balance was terrible. Steering a 
straight line and not rounding up was a bit of a challenge.
 
In hindsight dragging out the storm jib would have been worth it for balance.
 
Joe
 
Coquina
 
  
 

Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

In my case, the sheets are led down to the tack as the sleeve is hoisted over 
the sail.
Charlie


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On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 8:24 AM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

So, do you zip down to your sheets, and zip up to them, or do you take the 
sheets off altogether and just zip with one zipper? 

Bill ColemanEntrada Erie PA 
On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 21:55 Bob Mann via CnC-List  wrote:

   Do away with the sacrificial altogether!  I bought a jib sock for my 35 in 
December 2017 for $580 from a small, local sailmaker.  A few tears in it but 
still going strong! 
   
   Bob Mann   Detroit  
  On 06/20/2022 9:45 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
 I had a “stick on” sacrificial cover attached to my 150 years ago.  I was 
rounding Bloody Point on the Chesapeake in fairly strong winds when the cover 
got attached to the shrouds instead of the sail.  Not a lot of fun as we could 
only adjust our heading so much, we’re running out of “runway”, and the sail 
was basically glued to the shroud.   I will NEVER use a glue on item like that 
unless it is also sewn on as well.  
   Neil Andersen, W3NEA    Rock Hall, MD 21661   484-354-8800  From: Joel 
Aronson via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 8:28:31 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Cost to replace UV cover  
 U V cover replacement is by the foot. What else did they recommend?  New 
webbing? Restitching?   
   On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 7:34 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote: 
  
  Maybe it's time for a SailRite machine!  On the other hand, isn't there some 
kind of a white sticky material you can buy and just put it on yourself? It 
sticks like the numbers or graphics. I'm pretty sure I had that on one of my 
leeches. 
 
  Bill Coleman   Entrada Erie PA 
   On Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 19:08 Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
 wrote: 
  
   
 
 
The UV cover on my genoa is starting to fail, so I took it to Bacons to get 
repaired. I figured 5 or 6 boat bucks maybe. Well I figured wrong, the estimate 
came back at $1350! Yikes!
 
Are they nuts or is this the going rate now? That seems like a pretty good 
chunk of an entire sail!
 
 
 
 
 
Joe Della Barba
 
Coquina C&C 35 MK I
 
Kent Island MD USA
 
 
 
 
   
  
  -- 
Joel 
 
 
 

Stus-List Re: Winches in use for dip pole jibes.

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Great info and from someone who knows about dip pole or other kite maneuvers!
If the after guard, including the trimmers, are paying attention the 
appropriate sheets and guys are in their proper places, just displaced from 
each other fore and aft as my tactician prefers.
I am now convinced that the sheets and guys will be in their proper places 
after the kite is hoisted and doused as described for port rounding—thus there 
is not likely that keeping the guys forward and sheets aft will be 
significantly slower than having them paired athwartship.
Thanks for your reply—it has converted me!!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom



Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Thursday, December 1, 2022, 3:34 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I have been doing dip pole gybes for forty + years. My primary winches are 
forward on the coaming and secondaries are aft (like yours). The primaries are 
always used for the guys and the genoa sheets and the secondaries are always 
used for the spinnaker sheets. Since you are rounding the windward mark on 
starboard tack, the genoa sheet is on the port primary, and the starboard 
primary is free to use for the spinnaker guy. When you round the leeward mark 
on starboard tack, the port primary is free to use for the genoa sheet. As soon 
as you round at either the windward or leeward mark, the port primary is free 
if you want to tack or gybe. If you use a spinnaker staysail, the primary is 
used for the staysail sheet, after the genoa is dropped or furled. Try this the 
next time you're out and you'll see how simple it is.
Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR



On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:42 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

My tactician and I have a friendly disagreement on which winches to use when 
doing dip pole jibes with lazy sheets and 'guys' on my masthead rig C&C 36 
XL/kcb:
On Water Phantom, I have moved the initial primary winches (Lewmar ST 50s) 
forward on the cockpit coaming and added another secondary winch pair (Lewmar 
ST 44s) at the aft end of the cockpit coaming. Thus my secondaries are hardly 
secondary in strength and power ratios, etc.
All our races have port roundings and most are W-L. Thus we are on starboard 
tack at either the windward or leeward mark. I am no expert on dip-pole jibes 
but as I thought thru the sequence of events at the turning mark on starboard 
tack, it seemed intuitive to me to rig the kite with a starboard pole always 
(we never do jib sets!), using the aft secondary winches for both the sheet and 
the guy on the kite. This leaves the forward primary winches committed to the 
headsail as we make the turn at the mark.
After the turn, the primary winches can be cleared of the headsail sheets and 
the other set of kite lines (sheet and guy) can be rigged on these primary 
winches. When it comes time to jibe, the aft secondary kite lines become lazy 
and the trimmers use the primary winches--note the primary and secondary 
winches are only about 2 feet apart. For the next jibe, the trimmers move to 
the aft secondary winches and so on...
At the leeward mark, always on starboard for port roundings, the kite is back 
to being controlled by the aft secondaries (as at the windward mark) and the 
forward primaries can be loaded with the headsail sheets in anticipation of the 
beat to windward just as they were positioned at the windward mark. I like this 
symmetry (but then I am mostly a left-hander!) and think it involves less line 
switching, less time and might be faster than using a forward set of winches 
for both guys, etc.
OTOH, my tactician races mainly in a one design Beneteau 41S fleet in Chicago 
where the primary forward winches have both guys on them, the aft secondary 
winches are used for both sheets always. (I think this is because the 
secondaries might be pretty small on the 41S and they and/or the crew may not 
be able to handle the guys on the secondary aft winches). 
Since I have no problem with using Lewmar 44s as primary winches, I have the 
option to do the winches ala the Chicago way or the Water Phantom way. Before I 
commit to having the crew learn how to do these winch swaps as we go from jibe 
to jibe, I want to choose the best way to handle the winches and stick with it 
through the season.
What do the list racers think of these alternatives?
Thanks in advance,

Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbNew Bern, NC
 

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Thanks for your help.
Alan Bergen
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Thanks for your help.
Charlie Nelson


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Stus-List Boatyards in SE

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Also consider yards in coastal or the sounds of NC. Plenty of DIY yards in the 
Pamlico Sound, Neuse River, Albemarle Sound, Southport, NC. 
Those away from the Atlantic coast are mostly very reasonable in cost with 
decent amenities and most allow DIY work although boats with drafts of ~ 5+ ft 
may have difficulties in or getting to some facilities.
Yard fees are much higher near the coast but if you want to mostly work on the 
boat, you can save big away from the coast—plus within a days sail/motor you 
can be on the ocean.
The winds up in the rivers/sounds are on the lighter side but for all practical 
purposes there are no tides, currents, fog and the bottom is soft but very 
black mud. 
FWIW
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater PhantomNew Bern, NC


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Stus-List Re: Replacing Original Boom

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Love my in-boom purchase! 
My 1995 36 XL has a ‘magic’ 2, 3 or 4 purchase within the boom for the out 
haul.(can’t recall exactly). Whatever it is, it can be used in any breeze in 
which we do not need to reef our main (our go-to reefing). 
Once we need to reef the main, there is no need for this purchase since once 
reefed, the outhaul cannot be usedand the leech is effectively ‘flattened’ by 
the aft forces on the reef crinkle.
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb


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On Thursday, January 5, 2023, 12:44 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 wrote:

In addition to what I said about the gooseneck matching the boom, my boom came 
with a 3:1 or 4:1 in-boom purchase for the outhaul. A cabin top winch is used 
for reefing and for the outhaul (when needed in heavier air).
Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR



On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 9:14 AM Novabraid via CnC-List  
wrote:

Randy,
While I've never experienced a Selden boom on any C&C, I've been racing on a 
Beneteau First 40 (Farr Yacht Design) for the past few years which has a Selden 
spar set up.   I do "pit" on race nights.   The in-boom outhaul, reef lines, 
and vang controls work seamlessly and can be adjusted in most reasonable wind 
conditions.  With regards to the outhaul, there's a winch just aft of the rope 
clutches and I don't think I could pull on the outhaul by hand in anything more 
than 10kts of breeze (it’s a really big main on the Beneteau).  It really wants 
to be on the winch.
Like everything else, it’s a matter of getting the proper sized lines to work 
with the sheave sizes in the boom assembly along with periodic maintenance of 
the lines and sheaves involved.  Also, gooseneck fittings are not universal so 
if you have bits of the gooseneck welded to the mast, make sure that the new 
one is compatible with mast fitting.
Good luck with the upgrade!
Chuck Gilchrest
Half Magic
1983 Landfall 35
Padanaram, MA

-Original Message-
From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 10:57 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: Stus-List Replacing Original Boom

Happy New Year Listers.

I’m contemplating replacing the original boom on my 30 MK I with a new Selden 
BS120-03B.  This is an outgrowth of my offseason project to replace sheaves & 
halyards, add deck organizers and rope clutches to lead lines aft, etc.

What attracts me to a new modern boom is being able to run the outhaul and reef 
lines through sheaves at its aft end, through the boom, through sheaves at its 
forward end, down to turning blocks on the mast at the collar, then aft via 
deck organizers to rope clutches.  The Selden booms also have a pretty slick 
internal single-line reefing system for two reef points.

I’ve requested a few quotes and so far the price is less than I feared - 
reasonable enough to actually do it.

Have any of y’all done this before, and have any experience to report?

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
SV Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
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Stu
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Thanks for your help.
Stu
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Stus-List Re: TowBoatUS is it worth it?

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Note that on my recent renewal with Boat/US there were mileage limits on the 
tow depending on the level of insurance. 
The old unlimited may still be available but don’t assume that your coverage 
includes it——“caveat emptor” or something like that!!
OTOH, before I returned to Boat/US, my towing coverage had a $1000 deductible. 
The one time I used it for a tow of about 1/8 mile (board problem had it down 
in a channel into marina),guess what the tow cost—exactly $1000!
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom


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On Saturday, January 14, 2023, 3:27 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Yep...it is cheap even  if you only use it once every 10 years.

Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660


On Jan 14, 2023, at 12:17 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
 wrote:



I would never own a boat without it. 
Danny
On Jan 14, 2023 1:56 PM, Bob Mann via CnC-List  wrote:

  Chuck, 
   
   unless you're going far and need a tow, it sounds like you've got your 
situations covered.  I've used them once, when I couldn't start the engine 
after a race. Of course, I was all of 1.5 miles off shore :(   
   I'm now doing longer races, including Port Huron to Mackinac.  A tow from 
anywhere back to my home port is well worth the cost of the insurance.   
   Bob   Mystic   Detroit  
  On 01/14/2023 1:50 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  
wrote:   
   
   Hi Guys, 
   Got a question for the shallow water sailors like those in Chesapeake Bay.   
   I'm thinking whether to buy TowBoatUS for peace of mind this coming season.  
I've owned my boat for twenty years and though I do run aground a few times 
each year, I always get off faily easily by backing out or spinning the keel 
free.    My batteries are older and I might need a jump start after anchoring 
out.  I keep a jumpstarter aboard for that situation and can easily check the 
charge.
   
   Are there any benefits I am missing that the membership provides?  TowBoatUS 
requires thirty days before benefits are effective, so February looks a good 
time to join if I do.
   
   Thanks,
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C&C 34R, Annapolis
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Thanks for your help. 
Stu 
 

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Stus-List Re: Racing at night

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I don’t do much night racing but when I did, I found stanchion flashlight 
mounts very useful.
Aim the pair at your favorite tell tales (or at all of the tell tales if you 
have multiple pairs of mounts and flashlights) with a red filter on them and 
you’re good to go. Don’t remember where I got them any longer.
With more recent led flashlights, the batteries would easily last the night—the 
older non led flashlights usually only lasted until dawn—barely!

FWIW
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb
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On Sunday, February 26, 2023, 12:01 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I just read an interesting article in Practical Sailor on red vs. white lights 
and night vision.  It reminded me to ask a question of those more experienced 
about night racing.  I have only done this a few times and found upwind 
steering at night to be a real challenge.  I normally steer by the genoa 
telltales.  In light, shifting winds which we inevitably encounter at the 
darkest hours, it is especially important to steer well to keep the boat 
moving, but it is hard.   We used a hand held spotlight to periodically check 
the telltales, but that destroys night vision.  Are there better solutions?  
Thanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Stus-List Re: Best Telltale Treatment

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Great idea Alan, esp. attaching them ‘backwards’!
I will have to use some old cassette tapes instead. 
What do you use to attach/stick  them to the sail?
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom


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On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 12:32 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I Found the best telltales are made from reel to reel recording tape. Attach 
the tape as though it were streaming forward. Then when you are sailing the 
tape will stream aft, and it won't lie flat against the sail, preventing it 
from sticking.

Alan


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 8:59 AM Matt Janssen via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Randy, 
On most race boats i've been on, the standby is coating the telltale in McLube 
or a similar dry silicone lubricant. 
However, this does not work for my laminated No 1. The edge of the 
panels/stitching always seemed to catch the yarn. This causes pulls in the yarn 
further exacerbating the problem. This was especially true near the telltale 
windows. 
I only had success after swapping the yarn tell tales for a lightweight nylon 
material. The ones from Robship worked well for me. 
https://www.amazon.com/Robship-Telltale-Dinghy-Small-Multi/dp/B09SZM291Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Robship&qid=1677599220&sr=8-1
For the tells I did not swap, I trimmed their length to keep the tell from 
snagging on the stitching. I only needed to trim 1" to 1.5".   
If your issue is mostly moisture or static, McLube or similar may work.  
If you have a laminate or dark colored sail, whatever you do, resist the urge 
to coat the sail itself. Frustrated at a regatta last year i did just this... 
and had to live with unsightly white clouds on the sail. Adding insult to 
injury, the tells were stuck again by the windward mark. (see lower window)
mattEduamC&C 27 MkV
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 10:17 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Listers-

What, in your experience, has been the best treatment to apply to telltales to 
keep them from sticking from sails?  I’m talking mostly about yarn telltales 
along a headsail’s luff, but also ripstop nylon telltales on a mainsail’s 
leech?  I’ve noticed that sometimes yarn telltales will stick due to static or 
moisture.  I’d like to find the right magic potion or pixie dust to apply to 
give them the greatest ability possible to fly without sticking.  Then, making 
them fly properly is of course up to the crew.

Cheers,
Randy
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Thanks for your help.
Stu
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Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: UV Strip

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Given the light weight of ‘Sticky back’( presumed to be plastic type film that 
serves as a sail cover when the head sail is furled), I doubt that it is the 
problem with your leech. (Before I went with a furling sock, I had new carbon 
sails that had something similar on them for UV protection— very thin clear 
plastic stuck to the sail).
I suspect that your frizbee type leech curl is a result of a tired sail that 
has lost its shape or it was cut improperly. 
I once had a Dacron 155% reinforced with technora fibers that had a similar 
leech (which ‘bowed’ to weather!) that could only be removed be recutting it to 
about 140%.
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb

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On Thursday, March 2, 2023, 6:43 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

My current Dacron Jib has Insignia sticky-back on the leech, which I am not 
happy with.  I wonder if anyone else following this has Sticky-Back as a UV, 
and if they have noticed they have a frisbee leech? I would have expected the 
leech to be needing some leech line adjustment by now, but I have it all the 
way off and still can't get the cup out of the leech. I am afraid if I take it 
off I will be stuck with sticky crap that I cannot remove. 

Bill ColemanEntrada, Erie PA

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023 at 10:57 AM Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Also has the benefit that it doesn't add weight to the leach of the sail, 
which can be important in light wind.  As well,
 there is less of a chance your furled sail will unwind in a wind...because it 
is encased in the sockso the sock has to fail as well.
 
 The drawback of course is you have to put the sock on and off...but having 
used both, my boat with leach UV protection
 and J-105 with sock.  The extra 5 minutes doesn't kill me.   If you sailed 
alone a lot, might be more of a nuisance but I try to
 avoid that as I am more of a social person so I prefer to find anybody to go 
sailing with.
 
 My future sails will be sock based.
 Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C&C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C. On 2023-03-02 11:44, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:
  
  
Bacon’s told me their price for the material had recently doubled, so socks 
probably cost more too.
 
On the other hand a sock works for ALL sails, not just one, and you can get it 
repaired without dragging the whole sail into the loft.
 
 
 
Joe
 
Coquina
 
 
  
From: Richard Servance via CnC-List  
 Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 9:58 AM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: Richard Servance 
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: UV Strip
  
 
   
I just had North replace the UV cover on my 135%. It was a boat buck ($1k). 
Hadn't heard of the sock method; so not sure if it's still an option from them.
  

 Sail safe,
 
 
 Richard Servance
 
 S/V Blue Heaven (C&C 34+)
 
 757-995-3416
 @svblueheaven
 Seattle, WA
 
     
  

 
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Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Last things first, my rule of thumb (origin lost to memory) is to have enough 
threads to match the diameter of the bolt: thus a 1/4 x 20 bolt should have a 
minimum of 5 threads (20/4 = 5). Threads beyond that are overkill.
Next I would consider using a oscillating tool to cut away the inner liner in 
the shower so that you could reach all the bolts without drilling individual 
holes to match. You can easily cover the opening you create with a piece of 
teak or something that looks like it. Modern oscillating tools can easily cut 
through the liner.
Lastly, I would use a a starboard type plate vs. aluminium and forget about 
tapping an aluminium plate. Just use thru bolts and, if necessary, make the 
starboard thick enough so that the nuts used on the thru bolts can sit in 
recessed holes in the starboard.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson 


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On Saturday, March 11, 2023, 12:50 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I would love some feedback on a project since my initial plan went awry and 
hope others can help me from making any more mistakes.  I keep making small 
tweaks to make life easier for short-handed sailing.  Since I am usually alone, 
raising the main is a process.  I raise it most of the way by hand at the mast 
and have a clam cleat mounted there to hold it in place.  Then I feed the 
halyard through the blocks and then though the jammer on the coachroof and 
clamp it.  Then I use the winch to fully hoist and make adjustments.  The 
problem is that the only winch on the starboard side is a non-self tailing 
Barient 18.  Using that without someone to tail can be done, but is not easy 
and must be one handed.  
So I had to bright idea this winter to replace the winch with a self-tailing 
version to make adjustments easier once the sail is raised.  It seemed a 
relatively straightforward project at the time.  I have periodically had those, 
and I always assume the next one will be.  I found a used Harken winch in good 
condition at a reasonable price on Ebay and bought it and took it to the boat.  
I presumed I would have to redrill some holes to mount it, but did not realize 
how limited the space actually was. The new winch is not much larger, but 
enough to be a problem.  Because the winch is at the back of the coachroof, and 
behind the shower hatch, the space is very tight and I would not be able to fit 
all the screws of the new base, not to mention I would have to drill a new set 
of access points in the shower ceiling panel.
So two options:1.  Try to find a comparably sized Barient 21 or 22 ST that has 
a smaller base (none have the same hole pattern).  I think one would fit, but 
have not found any used ones yet so those appear hard to find.2.  Create an 
adapter plate.  My thought was to buy a round aluminum(?) stock plate the size 
of the new winch base.  Drill a set of countersunk holes matching the existing 
pattern and tap a set of holes for the new winch.  The plate would be held by 
the old through bolts.  The new by the tapped holes.  This would raise the 
winch somewhat depending on the thickness of the plate.  How thick to make it 
so the threads are sufficiently strong is a worry.  I don’t think the raised 
angle would be a problem, since genoa winches are much higher than the lead 
block and work fine.  
My temptation is to go with option 2.  Thoughts?  Thanks as always- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Stus-List Re: Sail costs

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Similar to my recent (2020/2021) 155% 3Di from North. No luff cover-I use a 
sleeve—and IIRC it was ~$6600 all in.
It was of medium weight for potential racing near the ocean and hopefully for 
better longevity!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb


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On Saturday, March 18, 2023, 2:46 PM, Ted Drossos via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I had a new 155% made by Quantum for my C&C 110 in 2020 . It was a carbon fiber 
tri-radial with Liteskin.  $6300 plus tax and delivery.
Ted DrossosC&C 110Lady in RedLong Island, NY

-Original Message-
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: Sat, Mar 18, 2023 9:54 am
Subject: Stus-List Sail costs

   Sail costs:  A new light air genoa was quoted at $5200 for my 36 footer, so 
I decided instead to have repairs made to my old sails.   They repaired my #2 
for $700.  They will alter my #3 for a little more.  They are removing 
horizontal battens and installing vertical battens, and adding UV, so it can be 
furled.  I've chosen to use Chesapeake Sailmakers because they are service 
oriented, came out and measured my rig before I spent any money, and they took 
time to evaluate my sails and offer options. 
   
   Wonder what others are paying for new sails and/or repairs.  
   
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R, Annapolis  Please show your 
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StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
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Thanks for your help.
Stu


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me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sail costs

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I have always had a sailmaker/salesperson measure my boat for any sail—whether 
national (Hood, North) or local. Given the sail costs for my 36 XL and the 
limited number of hulls made, I didn’t trust myself to make the measurements or 
to rely on some sail database.
For my latest 3Di 155%, the North rep spent a couple of hours measuring, 
including the slight curvature of my Genoa tracks as they move aft, following 
the curve of the cabin.Not a DIY project for me.
Since the sail has its curvatures built in from the 3d mold, its shape really 
cannot be adjusted. 
When delivered and hoisted , it fit perfectly, including the spreader and 
stanchion patches and most importantly, to my amateur eyes, it has a perfect 
shape.

My hope is that between the medium weight (true winds 15-20) and the sail 
material itself it will outlast my ability to race with it—or at least longer 
than it’s 3DL predecessor!
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC&C 36 XL/kcb

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On Saturday, March 18, 2023, 11:37 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Anywhere from $850 to $2500 for a cruising (inshore) Dacron furling 135% genoa 
for my Catalina 270 (summer 2022).
 
  
 
You have to shop around (get quotes) and insist on comparing oranges to oranges.
 
  
 
I had very good experience with a small sail loft round Buffalo and with an 
offshore company; both in the lower range of prices. Some larger companies 
offered to send a rep to the boat, but this added a substantial premium and did 
not seem to offer too much benefit.
 
  
 
Marek
 
  
 
1994 C270 ”Legato”
 
Ottawa, ON
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2023 9:55 AM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Sail costs
 
  
 
Sail costs:  A new light air genoa was quoted at $5200 for my 36 footer, so I 
decided instead to have repairs made to my old sails.   They repaired my #2 for 
$700.  They will alter my #3 for a little more.  They are removing horizontal 
battens and installing vertical battens, and adding UV, so it can be furled.  
I've chosen to use Chesapeake Sailmakers because they are service oriented, 
came out and measured my rig before I spent any money, and they took time to 
evaluate my sails and offer options. 
 
  
 
Wonder what others are paying for new sails and/or repairs. 
 
  
 
Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R, Annapolis
 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

If you have been keeping up with your filter changes (primary, secondary, 
Racor, etc.) and the boat is used regularly, my bet is on an air leak somewhere 
in the fuel system, perhaps generated by changing your filters.
An overtightened Racor can deform the lid and allow air in and any change in 
the mechanical fuel pump may reduce what fuel it can deliver especially at high 
rpm.
As others have suggested, it could be fuel crud as well. 
Either way I would follow the KISS principle and check the simplest possible 
solution first before proceeding to more complicated solutions—something I have 
a tendency to do! (e.g. if you hear the sounds of a stampede, assume they are 
horses and not hippos).
It took my mechanic and myself several years to determine that my similar fuel 
delivery problem was likely caused by a mechanical lift pump barely able to 
deliver enough fuel at high rpm ( Beta engine replaced original Yanmar and the 
Beta pump was barely able to left the fuel to the engine compounded by air 
leaks, etc.)
Ultimately after a few years of erratic operation he bypassed the mechanical 
pump and added a simple electric fuel pumps (x2) for redundancy and they were 
cheap!) and problem was solved—although we never confirmed with confidence what 
the original problem(s) were.
Charlie Nelson1995 C&C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom

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On Friday, June 9, 2023, 1:36 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Loose wire or bad terminal?       My Universal M4-30 has an electric fuel 
booster pump.  A dirty ground connection caused a problem called; speed up and 
die, or lack of fuel.  Ours always restarted however and then cut out above 
half throttle.  The wire terminal was green.  Cleaned it with emery cloth and 
she ran fine for the next 12 hours.  Once home, I changed the pump and hoses 
and remounted the water separater to it was easier to work on.           Chuck 
S  
  On 06/09/2023 12:43 PM EDT Neil Andersen via CnC-List  
wrote:          My similar issue was due to a fuel pump issue.     
Neil Andersen, W3NEA   Formerly 1982 C&C 32, FoxFire   Rock Hall, MD 21661   
484-354-8800   From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2023 11:40:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dreuge 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness   I once had a similar engine 
issue.  It would run fine one day (or half) and constant stall upon or shortly 
after restarts.  It turned out that my Racor was not full tightened.  Easy fix 
once found.  
   - 
Paul E.   1981 C&C Landfall 38  
S/V Johanna Rose 
Fort Walton Beach, FL       http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
 
  On Jun 9, 2023, at 11:27 AM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
wrote:  
   
On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 7:22 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 I am out for the first time this season. Engine started right up. Motored out 
of harbor for two hours. Turned engine off for a while waiting for wind. 
Started back up. Ran for 15-30 sec and died. Started up and ran for a bit 
longer then died. Pulled bed to get access and fuel pressure and level in racor 
look fine. Started up and ran fine for 40 min. WTF?  Dave 
  
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks for your help. 
Stu 
 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I also suffer from engine anxiety after dealing with unreliable diesel 
operation over about 2 years, during which time it would quit, usually 
immediately restart, run for several minutes or several hours and then quit, 
repeat, etc.
The most recent fix (electric fuel pump x2, switchable) with the lift pump 
bypassed entirely has kept it running regularly for 2+ years. 
As a result of my post diesel failure anxiety (PDFA!), I can’t bring myself to 
call this fix the ‘last fix’. I consider it only a long pause before the next 
failure of some system on board.
On the plus side, I know my way around my diesel almost as well as my mechanic 
and have proven to my crew that I am capable of ALL routine engine  maintenance 
while underway or drifting depending on the breeze!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36/XL/kcb


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On Monday, June 12, 2023, 1:47 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Thanks for all the thoughts and stories.  The engine has run fine now for many 
hours since that incident, so I am going to ignore it for now.  You can’t fix a 
problem that happens once and doesn’t repeat.  To answer some questions: M4-30 
diesel, new Racor unit and filters, some new fuel lines.  I have a pressure 
gauge on top of the Racor, so I know if filters are clogged and they are not.  
Like Chuck, I have an electric fuel pump which eliminates a bunch of possible 
causes.  If the problem recurs, I will deal with it, but motoring most of the 
way to Block Island and back with no trouble easies my mind.  However, I have 
to say, I will never be fully comfortable or trusting of engines in general.  
Whenever I have a long motoring to do, I am never happy or confident in my 
engine.  I guess that’s why I have a sailboat and sail it most of the time.  
Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


On Jun 11, 2023, at 12:24 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:
Let's just be thankful we're not flying airplanes!

Bill Coleman 
On Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 09:42 Korbey Hunt via CnC-List  
wrote:

I have a 1980 34 C&C located in Ketchikan, AK.  I only use it in the summer.  
It has a new Yanmar 30 hp engine with 300 hrs.  Last year when returning from a 
long cruise at good speed and running well for many hours the engine suddenly 
slowed and died.  We were in a channel and began drifting towards the beach.  
After a few minutes I restarted the motor and it ran fine.  I suspect a fuel 
problem but never found the cause.  I changed the engine filter but it did not 
look dirty.
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 10:24:48 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Martin DeYoung 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Engine strangeness Transitory engine issues can create 
drama quickly.  Back in 1992 we had just taken possession of a 1981 C&C 36 and 
departed Seattle's Lake Union heading out to our saltwater moorage at Shilshole 
Bay Marina. This trip takes us west through the Lake Washington Ship Canal, 
under the Fremont and Ballard Bridges (needed to open them), and through the 
Ballard locks. The Ship Canal is narrow enough that it is rare to sail through 
it. It was also calm that day.  The engine ran just fine through the transit to 
and into the locks (approx. first hour of ownership). It is common to shut down 
the engine while locking through as it can take enough time to expose a few 
people to the exhaust fumes.
So, the lock gates open, the C&C 36's Yanmar 3-cylinder diesel fires up and 
aidedby the outgoing current we departed the lock. Now it worth noting there is 
an opening single leafed Bascule train bridge with a clearance of +-48' at that 
moment's tide height a short distance west of the lock. Our 36's air draft was 
a little over 50'.Given how the gods watching over errant sailors enjoy a good 
laugh from time to time the engine chooses that moment to shut down. It shut 
down in that way that indicates a restart is unlikely. The train bridge is also 
down. The current coming out of the locks is relentlessly pushing us towards 
the closed bridge. I am suddenly very concerned for the top few feet of the 
mast.
I immediately sounded the signal asking for an opening. I asked the boat's new 
co-owner to make ready to anchor.  I hit the starter to see if the engine would 
restart. It sputtered and died again.  I sounded for an opening again. Nothing 
promising was happening up on the bow in way of an anchor being deployed. I 
attempted another restart this time with the reduction gear in reverse to make 
use of any rotation of the prop.  I get maybe 15 to 20 seconds of run time 
which slowed our progress slightly. The bridge operator made the horn signal 
indicating he was able to open the bridge, no trains were in route.  I headed 
for the side of the bridge that opens first and hit the starter again hoping 
for another few seconds of reverse.
Fortunately, the bridge opened just enough and our path close to the opening 
end of the bridge equaled just enough clearance