Great info and from someone who knows about dip pole or other kite maneuvers! If the after guard, including the trimmers, are paying attention the appropriate sheets and guys are in their proper places, just displaced from each other fore and aft as my tactician prefers. I am now convinced that the sheets and guys will be in their proper places after the kite is hoisted and doused as described for port rounding—thus there is not likely that keeping the guys forward and sheets aft will be significantly slower than having them paired athwartship. Thanks for your reply—it has converted me!! Charlie NelsonWater Phantom
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Thursday, December 1, 2022, 3:34 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: I have been doing dip pole gybes for forty + years. My primary winches are forward on the coaming and secondaries are aft (like yours). The primaries are always used for the guys and the genoa sheets and the secondaries are always used for the spinnaker sheets. Since you are rounding the windward mark on starboard tack, the genoa sheet is on the port primary, and the starboard primary is free to use for the spinnaker guy. When you round the leeward mark on starboard tack, the port primary is free to use for the genoa sheet. As soon as you round at either the windward or leeward mark, the port primary is free if you want to tack or gybe. If you use a spinnaker staysail, the primary is used for the staysail sheet, after the genoa is dropped or furled. Try this the next time you're out and you'll see how simple it is. Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:42 AM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: My tactician and I have a friendly disagreement on which winches to use when doing dip pole jibes with lazy sheets and 'guys' on my masthead rig C&C 36 XL/kcb: On Water Phantom, I have moved the initial primary winches (Lewmar ST 50s) forward on the cockpit coaming and added another secondary winch pair (Lewmar ST 44s) at the aft end of the cockpit coaming. Thus my secondaries are hardly secondary in strength and power ratios, etc. All our races have port roundings and most are W-L. Thus we are on starboard tack at either the windward or leeward mark. I am no expert on dip-pole jibes but as I thought thru the sequence of events at the turning mark on starboard tack, it seemed intuitive to me to rig the kite with a starboard pole always (we never do jib sets!), using the aft secondary winches for both the sheet and the guy on the kite. This leaves the forward primary winches committed to the headsail as we make the turn at the mark. After the turn, the primary winches can be cleared of the headsail sheets and the other set of kite lines (sheet and guy) can be rigged on these primary winches. When it comes time to jibe, the aft secondary kite lines become lazy and the trimmers use the primary winches--note the primary and secondary winches are only about 2 feet apart. For the next jibe, the trimmers move to the aft secondary winches and so on... At the leeward mark, always on starboard for port roundings, the kite is back to being controlled by the aft secondaries (as at the windward mark) and the forward primaries can be loaded with the headsail sheets in anticipation of the beat to windward just as they were positioned at the windward mark. I like this symmetry (but then I am mostly a left-hander!) and think it involves less line switching, less time and might be faster than using a forward set of winches for both guys, etc. OTOH, my tactician races mainly in a one design Beneteau 41S fleet in Chicago where the primary forward winches have both guys on them, the aft secondary winches are used for both sheets always. (I think this is because the secondaries might be pretty small on the 41S and they and/or the crew may not be able to handle the guys on the secondary aft winches). Since I have no problem with using Lewmar 44s as primary winches, I have the option to do the winches ala the Chicago way or the Water Phantom way. Before I commit to having the crew learn how to do these winch swaps as we go from jibe to jibe, I want to choose the best way to handle the winches and stick with it through the season. What do the list racers think of these alternatives? Thanks in advance, Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C&C 36 XL/kcbNew Bern, NC Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!vUPc2BB4BPbQ2KTBeNNg8NMnuKVmashBtlisYX9auO-GBORHm6GeHlV0qLlNN59vn4fVJla0BlJTwUGH0bqT1Hc$ Thanks for your help. Alan Bergen Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Charlie Nelson
Don't forget to show your appreciation and help pay the bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help.
