Re: Stus-List Can recommend it

[Allan Rheaume via CnC-List]

Thanks for that Stu, you are correct it didn't come from me.
Al RheaumeDrumroll 30-2 # 90

  From: Stu via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Stu 
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 6:17 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Can recommend it
   
I think Allan’s email account has been hacked and he did not send it. Do 
yourself a favor and delete it. Stu

|  | Virus-free. www.avg.com  |

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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C&C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind. 

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C&C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.

Joe

Coquina

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years

Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI 




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Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

The original post is below.

My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and painting
with AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder coat.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g

A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The
fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is apparently
called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.

There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' is
Hull 83.

Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should look
like.  Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  The two
plates mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum plates
with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr

Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h

One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside down
from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a big
deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.

I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still
finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to be
very uncomfortable working in there.

I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the middle
piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder post
gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to the hull.
I will probably also make it with the athwartships gussets in place so all
I need do is tab them to the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due
to the side loading of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the
easier it will be.

I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll
document the process and provide a link.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
> overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
> Touche's steering system is by Morch.
>
> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you
> to do so.
>
> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx
>
> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
>
> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
>- The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
>quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
>- See:
>
> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
>- A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
>Christian 38 said he saw the same on his
>
> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This
> was a complete surprise.
>
>- See:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
>- And:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
>- This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made stops to limit
>the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
>bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
>- Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
>chain here:
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
>
> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
> sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
> started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
> remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
>
> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
>
> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
>
>- Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
>screws.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
>- Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever out.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
>- Then remove the other lever.
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjlIMBqk3lTdZ0vtSWg6TfnNFOcpXQZY
>
> Next steps.
>
>- Strip powder coat off the pedestal and associated parts and paint
>with AwlGrip.  Buddy of mine has leftover paint from painting his mast.
>- Replace both cables.  I'm deciding on this.  Edson's cable and wire
>kits look like

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

To me it is like racing horses around a track vs. racing motorcycles,. They are 
both sport for sure, but they are not the SAME sport. I agree about iceboating. 
IIRC, iceboats were going over 100 knots when nothing else on the planet could 
go that fast.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind.

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C&C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

I’m with Joe, not the same.

I like the races where every boat is the same and the winner is the best crew.  
That’s true racing.  Skill versus Technology.

Neil Andersen
1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:49 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

To me it is like racing horses around a track vs. racing motorcycles,. They are 
both sport for sure, but they are not the SAME sport. I agree about iceboating. 
IIRC, iceboats were going over 100 knots when nothing else on the planet could 
go that fast.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind.

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C&C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Can recommend it

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

Al,

Actually it did come from “you”, you just didn’t personally send it.  Your 
account has been compromised.   Hopefully your system and other accounts 
haven’t been.

Run more than one virus/malware scanner on your computer(s) and make sure ALL 
your passwords are changed AFTER the scans.

You don’t want to change the passwords while there is a key logger or other 
malware infecting your computer...


But you probably already know that.

Neil Andersen, CISM, CISSP
1982 C&C 32, FoxFire

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Allan Rheaume via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 5:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Allan Rheaume
Subject: Re: Stus-List Can recommend it

Thanks for that Stu, you are correct it didn't come from me.

Al Rheaume
Drumroll 30-2 # 90



From: Stu via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Stu 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Can recommend it

I think Allan’s email account has been hacked and he did not send it.  Do 
yourself a favor and delete it.

Stu

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]
 Virus-free. 
www.avg.com

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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . . .
I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For those not 
familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  One 
Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American Club 
and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was involved 
three times.
Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are very 
similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  Both sent 
their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we all say we 
want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh boy, this will 
show how popular this approach really is  . .
And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential groundswell of 
interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .
So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

Cheers,  Rob Ball
Email: r...@edsonintl.com

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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Sounds like a good plan, Dennis.

The quadrant stop on my boat is entirely different, so that a single stop 
pushes backwards instead of two stops pushing inwards (side to side).  Based on 
the photos, I doubt you could configure the style on my boat into your existing 
set-up.

I’m trying to remember what the 35 rudder looks like.  On my boat, the rudder 
sits in a skeg.  I had to modify the stop slightly because the rudder turned 
far enough with the wheel hard over to crack the edge of the skeg.

Matt Wolford
C&C 42 Custom

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:20 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

The original post is below.

My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and painting with 
AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder coat.  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g

A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The fitting on 
the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is apparently called a chain 
eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.

There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' is Hull 83.

Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should look like.  
Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  The two plates 
mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum plates with rubber 
cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr


Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:  

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h

One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside down from 
the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a big deal.  The 
plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.

I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still finalizing 
the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to be very 
uncomfortable working in there.  

I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the middle 
piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder post gusset.  I 
can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to the hull.  I will probably 
also make it with the athwartships gussets in place so all I need do is tab 
them to the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due to the side loading 
of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the easier it will be.

I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll document 
the process and provide a link.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:

  Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng overdue 
maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!  Touche's 
steering system is by Morch.

  If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you to 
do so.

  Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx


  I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

  Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.  
a.. See: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw 
b.. The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the 
quadrant just before the adjusting stud.   
c.. See:  
http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg 
d.. A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans Christian 
38 said he saw the same on his
  Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This was a 
complete surprise.
a.. See:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk 
b.. And:  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8 
c.. This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made stops to limit the 
travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The bolts must 
have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit. 
d.. Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the chain 
here:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
  Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler sheaves 
and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I started to 
remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins, remove the 
sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.

  The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I cleaned 
them and will lube and re-install.

  Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be 
stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
a.. Back off or remove

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Joe,

Having seen J Class boats, 12meter boats, IAC class, non-foiling and foiling AC 
catamarans race, I can attest to the excitement that ALL of them present to 
spectators when watching in person.  I don’t think it truly matters if you 
thought you could put yourself on board as a participant.  Regardless of the 
class yacht being used, I still view the America’s Cup as my all time favorite 
competition in sports.

 

   I grew up fantasizing about the 12 meters, followed the race coverage in the 
New York Times, and thought that the yacht Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle 
of yacht design.  Mind you, I was sailing Sunfish and FJ dinghies at the time.  
As the IAC boats came to pass, I still had the passion to follow the Cup races 
and took a special trip to San Diego right while all the yacht syndicates from 
Japan, Russia, Italy, New Zeeland, and Australia prepared for the regatta.  So 
cool!  When the Cup finally returned to the US, I took my whole family to San 
Francisco to watch the AC72 Cats fly up and down the bay at breathtaking 
speeds.  It was a thrill to see them in action and Yes, there were tacking 
duels and thrilling crosses.  I didn’t get down to Bermuda, but I did see the 
smaller AC Cats race in Newport, and thought the fleet racing was spectacular.  
So maybe I will never sail on a foiler, but after watching several new Cup 
races, my  17 year old son is absolutely psyched up to sail on one of the new 
UFO 10’ foiling cats that our yacht club bought this year for the youth sailing 
program.  He couldn’t be bothered by sailing my Laser, but can’t wait to get 
out on something that flies across the water!  In my mind, that’s what the 
inspiration of the Cup should be.   

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic 

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C&C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.

Joe

Coquina

 

From: CnC-List [  
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years

Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI 

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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Well said Rob.

FWIW, Part of me would love to see the J class racing or the older gaffer 
models like Columbia or Reliance which had crews of 75 guys.
Another part of me is fascinated by the new technology developed recently with 
the foiling boats and I know if Nat Herreshoff was alive he'd be designing 
foilers and using carbon fiber cause he was cutting edge.

I see the Americas Cup as another sport apart from sailing. It's like 
windsurfing in that way, which I enjoy very much. They have sails and get their 
power from the wind, but it's nothing like sitdown sailing at 6 knots. It's a 
different sport entirely. I will be following the races closely, especially if 
they cover it with so many onboard cameras and drones. It's great fun to watch.

Chuck, Resolute C&C 34R, Chesapeake Bay


> On January 29, 2019 at 10:03 AM Rob Ball via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . 
> . .
> 
> I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For 
> those not familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  
> One Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American 
> Club and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was 
> involved three times.
> 
> Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are 
> very similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  
> Both sent their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we 
> all say we want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh 
> boy, this will show how popular this approach really is  . .
> 
> And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential 
> groundswell of interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .
> 
> So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,  Rob Ball
> 
> Email: r...@edsonintl.com mailto:a...@edsonintl.com 
> 
>  
> 
 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

+1 on that.

I did not travel to see AC races (like Chuck did), but the catamaran races were 
an exciting spectator sport and I had many friends who never sail before watch 
them with me and got excited in the process.

I guess you cannot argue about tastes.

I do follow Formula 1 and WRC, even if what I ever raced (and even less what I 
drive) has very little to do with these vehicles.

I believe that the speed is secondary; the thrill of racing is what counts.

just my 2c

Marek

1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:19
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Joe,
Having seen J Class boats, 12meter boats, IAC class, non-foiling and foiling AC 
catamarans race, I can attest to the excitement that ALL of them present to 
spectators when watching in person.  I don’t think it truly matters if you 
thought you could put yourself on board as a participant.  Regardless of the 
class yacht being used, I still view the America’s Cup as my all time favorite 
competition in sports.

   I grew up fantasizing about the 12 meters, followed the race coverage in the 
New York Times, and thought that the yacht Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle 
of yacht design.  Mind you, I was sailing Sunfish and FJ dinghies at the time.  
As the IAC boats came to pass, I still had the passion to follow the Cup races 
and took a special trip to San Diego right while all the yacht syndicates from 
Japan, Russia, Italy, New Zeeland, and Australia prepared for the regatta.  So 
cool!  When the Cup finally returned to the US, I took my whole family to San 
Francisco to watch the AC72 Cats fly up and down the bay at breathtaking 
speeds.  It was a thrill to see them in action and Yes, there were tacking 
duels and thrilling crosses.  I didn’t get down to Bermuda, but I did see the 
smaller AC Cats race in Newport, and thought the fleet racing was spectacular.  
So maybe I will never sail on a foiler, but after watching several new Cup 
races, my  17 year old son is absolutely psyched up to sail on one of the new 
UFO 10’ foiling cats that our yacht club bought this year for the youth sailing 
program.  He couldn’t be bothered by sailing my Laser, but can’t wait to get 
out on something that flies across the water!  In my mind, that’s what the 
inspiration of the Cup should be.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Headstay Bulkhead holding Chainplate Rotten through

[Dan via CnC-List]

I need the collective wisdom on this one.

Pictures here:
 IMG_6750.JPG


 IMG_6747.JPG


On Breakaweigh I discovered my forward bulkhead holding the chain plate for
the headstay was constructed using a plywood core and had been modified
over the years. Of course no one thought to isolate the core in there when
drain holes were drilled and such and now the core material inside the
bulkhead is nearly disintegrated or rotten. There is a front and back
fiberglass layer, each about 1/4" thick and are well tabbed into the hull.

This rot is making me damn nervous and my gut is telling me to cut into the
exposed side, remove the rot, clean it up, sand, etc. and re-bed in
something stronger than wood, then re-glass and re-tab it into the hull.

Before I try anything like that I'm just wondering if cutting then
re-glassing one side of these original hull tabs is a bad idea? will the
new tabs be strong enough to support the re-inforced bulkhead? (using good
quality glass and epoxy)

Thanks guys,

Dan
Breakaweigh
C&C44
Halifax, NS
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[schiller via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Looks very similar to what was on Corsair, Hull #7.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTBZGtbZlym6_0Iw0S5DZOiWYHahCVI7

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028. "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 9:20 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

The original post is below.

My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and 
painting with AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder 
coat. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g


A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The 
fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is 
apparently called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.


There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' 
is Hull 83.


Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should 
look like.  Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  
The two plates mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against 
aluminum plates with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical 
structural member.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr

Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h

One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside 
down from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be 
a big deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the 
quadrant.


I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still 
finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to 
be very uncomfortable working in there.


I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the 
middle piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder 
post gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to 
the hull.  I will probably also make it with the athwartships gussets 
in place so all I need do is tab them to the hull.  The gussets are 
extremely important due to the side loading of the stops.  The more I 
do outside the space the easier it will be.


I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll 
document the process and provide a link.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a
lng overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done
in 47 years!  Touche's steering system is by Morch.

If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will
inspire you to do so.

Oh, no! Someone stole my pedestal!!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx

I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.

  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
  * The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around
the quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
  * See:

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
  * A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
Christian 38 said he saw the same on his

Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.
This was a complete surprise.

  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
  * And:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
  * This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made stops to
limit the travel of the rudder. They put a bolt at each end of
the chain. The bolts must have caused the damage when the
wheel reached its limit.
  * Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of
the chain here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf

Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The
idler sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in
good condition.  I started to remove it but decided it will be
easier to just pull the pins, remove the sheaves, clean, lube and
re-install.

The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition. 
(See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).
I cleaned them and will lube and re-install.

Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can
be stripped and painted. Using guidance from Chuck, here's that
process.

  * Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining
machine screws.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
  * Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever
out.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEH

Re: Stus-List Headstay Bulkhead holding Chainplate Rotten through

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I would think you could replace the rotten core without interfering with the 
existing tabbing if that is a concern.  That said, re-tabbing should not be a 
big deal, provided you grind the surface sufficiently to get to clean glass.  
The main bulkheads on the 34 are subject to tabbing failure, which on my 
previous boat resulted in the salon bulkhead walls shifting a bit (and messing 
with door alignment).  We had no difficulty cleaning things up to re-tab.  
Never had a problem after that.

From: Dan via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 11:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dan 
Subject: Stus-List Headstay Bulkhead holding Chainplate Rotten through

I need the collective wisdom on this one.

Pictures here:
 IMG_6750.JPG

 IMG_6747.JPG

On Breakaweigh I discovered my forward bulkhead holding the chain plate for the 
headstay was constructed using a plywood core and had been modified over the 
years. Of course no one thought to isolate the core in there when drain holes 
were drilled and such and now the core material inside the bulkhead is nearly 
disintegrated or rotten. There is a front and back fiberglass layer, each about 
1/4" thick and are well tabbed into the hull.

This rot is making me damn nervous and my gut is telling me to cut into the 
exposed side, remove the rot, clean it up, sand, etc. and re-bed in something 
stronger than wood, then re-glass and re-tab it into the hull.

Before I try anything like that I'm just wondering if cutting then re-glassing 
one side of these original hull tabs is a bad idea? will the new tabs be strong 
enough to support the re-inforced bulkhead? (using good quality glass and epoxy)

Thanks guys,

Dan
Breakaweigh
C&C44
Halifax, NS




___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Yep.  I wonder what hull number they made the design change?  touche' is
#83.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 10:54 AM schiller via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Looks very similar to what was on Corsair, Hull #7.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTBZGtbZlym6_0Iw0S5DZOiWYHahCVI7
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C&C 35-3, #028. "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
> On 1/29/2019 9:20 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>
> The original post is below.
>
> My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and painting
> with AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder coat.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g
>
> A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The
> fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is apparently
> called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.
>
> There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' is
> Hull 83.
>
> Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should look
> like.  Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  The two
> plates mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum plates
> with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr
>
> Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h
>
> One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside down
> from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a big
> deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.
>
> I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still
> finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to be
> very uncomfortable working in there.
>
> I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the middle
> piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder post
> gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to the hull.
> I will probably also make it with the athwartships gussets in place so all
> I need do is tab them to the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due
> to the side loading of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the
> easier it will be.
>
> I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll
> document the process and provide a link.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
>> overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
>> Touche's steering system is by Morch.
>>
>> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you
>> to do so.
>>
>> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx
>>
>> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
>>
>> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.
>>
>>- See:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
>>- The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
>>quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
>>- See:
>>
>> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
>>- A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
>>Christian 38 said he saw the same on his
>>
>> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This
>> was a complete surprise.
>>
>>- See:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
>>- And:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
>>- This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made stops to limit
>>the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
>>bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
>>- Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
>>chain here:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
>>
>> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
>> sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
>> started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
>> remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
>>
>> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
>> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
>>
>> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
>> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
>>
>>- Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
>>screws.

Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Correction:  Thanks to Neil who sent pics.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 8:21 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The original post is below.
>
> My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and painting
> with AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder coat.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g
>
> A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The
> fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is apparently
> called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.
>
> There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' is
> Hull 83.
>
> Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should look
> like.  Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  The two
> plates mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum plates
> with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr
>
> Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h
>
> One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside down
> from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a big
> deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.
>
> I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still
> finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to be
> very uncomfortable working in there.
>
> I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the middle
> piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder post
> gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to the hull.
> I will probably also make it with the athwartships gussets in place so all
> I need do is tab them to the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due
> to the side loading of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the
> easier it will be.
>
> I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll
> document the process and provide a link.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a lng
>> overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been done in 47 years!
>> Touche's steering system is by Morch.
>>
>> If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will inspire you
>> to do so.
>>
>> Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx
>>
>> I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.
>>
>> Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.
>>
>>- See:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
>>- The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend around the
>>quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
>>- See:
>>
>> http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
>>- A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his Hans
>>Christian 38 said he saw the same on his
>>
>> Concern 2.  Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were damaged.  This
>> was a complete surprise.
>>
>>- See:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
>>- And:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
>>- This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made stops to limit
>>the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt at each end of the chain. The
>>bolts must have caused the damage when the wheel reached its limit.
>>- Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the links of the
>>chain here:
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf
>>
>> Non-concerns.  The rest of the system looked pretty good.  The idler
>> sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be in good condition.  I
>> started to remove it but decided it will be easier to just pull the pins,
>> remove the sheaves, clean, lube and re-install.
>>
>> The turning sheaves and brackets looked to be in good condition.  (See:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jie9IxSqSKorp3FaJtcKjbsNh3nD1TBU).  I
>> cleaned them and will lube and re-install.
>>
>> Next I needed to disassemble the engine control assembly so it can be
>> stripped and painted.  Using guidance from Chuck, here's that process.
>>
>>- Back off or remove the two small Phillips head retaining machine
>>screws.
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VxT_ApckY55M7xXKoctIShPmIKxgrFUj
>>- Move one lever COMPLETELY to one side and push the other lever
>>out.
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nqwnvA1UYDEHFVfuH9xi_-sy6YJrSOLE
>>- Then remove the other lever.
>>https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pjl

Stus-List 35-1 Rudder Stop Design Changeover Point

[Thomas Delaney via CnC-List]

It probably doesn't help narrow it down that much, but Snow Goose (#173)
has the vertical structure like in Russ' photo.

This thread has made me realize I should spend a day shooting photos of
every inch of the boat at some point.

All best,
Tom

Snow Goose
35-1
City Island, NY

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 1:49 PM  wrote:

> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "Dennis C." 
> To: CnClist 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 12:40:06 -0600
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1
> Yep.  I wonder what hull number they made the design change?  touche' is
> #83.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 10:54 AM schiller via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Looks very similar to what was on Corsair, Hull #7.
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTBZGtbZlym6_0Iw0S5DZOiWYHahCVI7
>>
>> Neil Schiller
>> 1983 C&C 35-3, #028. "Grace"
>> Whitehall, Michigan
>> WLYC
>>
>> On 1/29/2019 9:20 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> The original post is below.
>>
>> My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and painting
>> with AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed remove powder coat.
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g
>>
>> A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me.  The
>> fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is apparently
>> called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.
>>
>> There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design.  Touche' is
>> Hull 83.
>>
>> Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop should look
>> like.  Note the strong vertical structural member with gussets.  The two
>> plates mounted to the bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum plates
>> with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr
>>
>> Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h
>>
>> One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed upside down
>> from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a big
>> deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.
>>
>> I am going to have to install a vertical structural member.  Still
>> finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ' boat.  Going to be
>> very uncomfortable working in there.
>>
>> I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with the
>> middle piece shorter so the thing slips down over the existing rudder post
>> gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place and then tab it to the hull.
>> I will probably also make it with the athwartships gussets in place so all
>> I need do is tab them to the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due
>> to the side loading of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the
>> easier it will be.
>>
>> I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing.  I'll
>> document the process and provide a link.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

The one right after C&C learned the chain stops failed.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 1:40 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

Yep.  I wonder what hull number they made the design change?  touche' is #83. 

Dennis C.

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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

My hull number, in the photos, is #202, July '73.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY

On 1/29/2019 1:40 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
Yep.  I wonder what hull number they made the design change?  touche' 
is #83.


Dennis C.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 10:54 AM schiller via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Dennis,

Looks very similar to what was on Corsair, Hull #7.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTBZGtbZlym6_0Iw0S5DZOiWYHahCVI7

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028. "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 9:20 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

The original post is below.

My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts for stripping and
painting with AwlGrip. Aircraft stripper does indeed remove
powder coat.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g

A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire rope cable for me. 
The fitting on the end of the cable that attaches to the chain is
apparently called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or
aircraft eye.

There seems to be a major change in the rudder stop design. 
Touche' is Hull 83.

Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what a rudder stop
should look like.  Note the strong vertical structural member
with gussets.  The two plates mounted to the bottom of the
quadrant stop against aluminum plates with rubber cushions on
either side of the vertical structural member.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr

Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h

One other difference is that Touche's quadrant is installed
upside down from the one on Russ' boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't
seem to be a big deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted
on the top of the quadrant.

I am going to have to install a vertical structural member. 
Still finalizing the design but it will be similar to Russ'
boat.  Going to be very uncomfortable working in there.

I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine ply together with
the middle piece shorter so the thing slips down over the
existing rudder post gusset.  I can then through bolt it in place
and then tab it to the hull.  I will probably also make it with
the athwartships gussets in place so all I need do is tab them to
the hull.  The gussets are extremely important due to the side
loading of the stops.  The more I do outside the space the easier
it will be.

I won't start the job until March after I return from skiing. 
I'll document the process and provide a link.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:50 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Well, I disassembled Touche's steering system yesterday for a
lng overdue maintenance session.  As in it's never been
done in 47 years!  Touche's steering system is by Morch.

If you haven't checked your steering system, maybe this will
inspire you to do so.

Oh, no!  Someone stole my pedestal!!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12p-nlp8FEwqR0zhDrqlHqxkb7UMa0iSx

I hope you find this helpful.  I found some items of concern.

Concern 1.  One of the steering cables had a broken strand.

  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mu-dmCnPnDFdd5jGHnkBAGSqbGL6jnrw
  * The break occurred where the cable made a sharp bend
around the quadrant just before the adjusting stud.
  * See:

http://www.bwsailing.com/bw/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Edson-Quadrant-Dwg.jpg
  * A buddy of mine who recently rebuilt the system in his
Hans Christian 38 said he saw the same on his

Concern 2. Some of the teeth on the chain sprocket were
damaged.  This was a complete surprise.

  * See:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1amngA8i-rm1IkBvn0HhyVGeNrj7T6NSk
  * And:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1a1czFpkvfnyQuFbNIlfHZehhwk-Wyl-8
  * This was apparently caused by the way C&C/Morch made
stops to limit the travel of the rudder.  They put a bolt
at each end of the chain. The bolts must have caused the
damage when the wheel reached its limit.
  * Note the two bolts with washers and nuts through the
links of the chain here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvJzh8xWDgetBCEE8eeOAtz4-up4ZvCf

Non-concerns. The rest of the system looked pretty good. The
idler sheaves and bracket under the pedestal appeared to be
in good condition.  I started to remove it but decided it
will be easier to just pull the pins, remove the sheaves,
clean, lube and re-install.

The turni

Re: Stus-List Any Tampa Bay Listers

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello Ed,
Sorry for not noticing this earlier and responding!
Please feel free to give me a call at the number below regarding Tampa sailing.
Kindest Regards,

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL  34677
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 

On Thursday, December 6, 2018, 10:43:08 AM EST, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Listers,
Anyone on the list located in the Tampa Bay area? 
I’d like to get an idea about the sailing, racing and cruising activity down 
there.  

All the best,
Edd

Edd M. SchillayCaptain of the Starship EnterpriseC&C 37+ | Sail No: 
NCC-1701-BCity Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log





 



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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Joe;

 

I do agree that the foiling cats were radically different than the conventional 
sailboats we are accustomed to. And the crew work and training is more 
demanding than on a monohull. The J class boats have hugely higher sheet 
loadings and hardware that is light years bigger than what we have on your 35 
or my 38, but the boat itself is just bigger and not much faster. Whether a J 
class or a catamaran, the sailing is still pretty much the same as on one of 
our boats.

 

Did you realize that Oracle was actually the faster boat in the AC finals in 
Bermuda? Her average top speed was a smidgen over 41 knots, while the Kiwi boat 
was between 40.5 and 41. Which is, on the whole, pretty cool since none of the 
races was run in over about 12 knots of wind.

 

So why did Oracle lose? Certainly there were slight difference in the foils, 
the soft headsails, and the leg powered hydraulics of the Kiwis gave a lot more 
consistent power for foils and trimmers than the coffee grinders on Oracle. But 
from watching the races on the Jumbo Tron at the AC pavilion, I’m pretty much 
convinced the margin was crew practice and work load management.

 

The skipper  of Oracle was driving. He was calling tactics. He was trimming the 
foils. He had a really cool steering wheel designed by BMW to control all that, 
plus a suite of gauges and Heads-Up displays that would probably rival an F18 
fighter/bomber. In one race Oracle lost because, when they tacked the boat, 
they went about 15’ outside the boundary of the race course and had to do a 
360. (The promo stuff in the BMW display area talked about how the boat positon 
on the race course and other tactical data was updated like 1000 times per 
minute. How could you run outside the boundary?) In pretty much every race they 
fell off the foils once or twice while tacking and jibing. And every time they 
fell off the foils (and dropped to about 9 knots) the Kiwis picked up a couple 
of hundred yards before Oracle got back up to speed. Spithill was just flat too 
busy and had too many tasks to manage.

 

The Kiwis almost never fell off the foils. The race commentators thought the 
bicycle powered hydraulics had something to do with it because trimming and 
changing foils was faster and perhaps had more reserve pressure in the 
accumulators. But the skipper of the Kiwi boat was calling tactics and trimming 
the foils. The helmsman was doing only that – driving. Someone else was 
trimming the main. When the helmsman ran to the cockpit on the other side of 
the boat a few seconds before each tack or jibe, the skipper held the wheel to 
keep the boat in a straight line until the helmsman was back in place. So I 
think superior crew work and coordination, and probably more practice during 
the LV Cup races, was the winning margin for the Kiwis.

 

Pretty similar to the J Class or 12 meter boats – just about 4 or 5 times 
faster.

 

Three of us on the list went out into the sound to watch the J Class races in 
Bermuda. And I’ll admit that it was probably my most favorite part of the trip. 
We are all familiar with the groaning of a loaded jib sheet when you are 
grinding in those last few inches. Well, on a J class the winch is about 4 feet 
tall and the sheet is an inch or more in diameter. And the groaning of the 
winch was loud enough the be heard from my boat 100 or more yards away. The J 
boats are romantic – majestic even – but one of them blew out a spinnaker just 
after rounding the windward mark we were near – and the spin that exploded 
probably cost $50 0r $60K.  “Real” sailors can only fantasize about sailing 
one. Hull speed on my boat is a bit over 7 knots – on a J class about 40% more. 
Romantic as it is, J class or 12 meter racing is basically a very expensive, 
though sexy and more closely competitive, version of the beer can racing we all 
do.

 

Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE options: a 
Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau announced it planned to 
build, an A Cat (think 40%  scale AC catamaran, 20+ knots in 12 knots of wind, 
and a race ready used one can be had for about 20K), whatever the new maker 
calls the Gunboat G4 (though a Gunboat 55 or 60 might be cool if I ever win big 
in the lottery). Those boats are just too athletic for a fat 68 year old 
cruiser, and take too much practice and crew work for racing in the occasional 
charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To each his own”.

 

The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the skills 
needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant. 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport 

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I don’t think there is any question that the recent Americas Cup competitions, 
and the AC45 race series around the world, has exposed a lot of non-sailors to 
sailboat racing – even if they’re not “real”sailboats. Probably similar to the 
exposure NASCAR racing gets vs hobby stock cars racing on the dirt track just 
outside of town.

 

And I’ve got to admit that watching the AC75 fly by 200 yards or so away  (and 
finish a couple hundred feet out from the bleachers) in the Goslings Lounge – 
while sipping a Dark and Stormy and enjoying lunch – was a lot more enjoyable 
than watching Dennis Conner get his butt kicked a few mile offshore on a small 
screen TV when I was in San Diego in the 80s. The new boats do lend themselves 
to an exciting racing format.

 

BTW, is Conner the leader of the Stars & Stripes syndicate challenging in the 
next Americas Cup?

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ball via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:04 AM
To: Della Barba, Joe ; 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 

Cc: Rob Ball 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . . .

I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For those not 
familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  One 
Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American Club 
and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was involved 
three times.

Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are very 
similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  Both sent 
their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we all say we 
want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh boy, this will 
show how popular this approach really is  . .

And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential groundswell of 
interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .

So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

 

Cheers,  Rob Ball

Email:   r...@edsonintl.com

 

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Re: Stus-List Headstay Bulkhead holding Chainplate Rotten through

[G Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Dan

Were it mine I'd cut out everything but the forward tabbing.  Cut a new piece 
of ply (or foam core if you are drastically against ply) to shape.  glass the 
forward side.  Remove the new core and replace with solid glass/epoxy in the 
area where the bolts will go thru for the plate.  glass the aft surface.  Glue 
this to the tabbing left behind, and then generously tab on the exposed side.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2019-01-29 12:48 p.m., Dan via CnC-List wrote:
I need the collective wisdom on this one.

Pictures here:
[https://drive-thirdparty.googleusercontent.com/16/type/image/jpeg] 
IMG_6750.JPG

[https://drive-thirdparty.googleusercontent.com/16/type/image/jpeg] 
IMG_6747.JPG

On Breakaweigh I discovered my forward bulkhead holding the chain plate for the 
headstay was constructed using a plywood core and had been modified over the 
years. Of course no one thought to isolate the core in there when drain holes 
were drilled and such and now the core material inside the bulkhead is nearly 
disintegrated or rotten. There is a front and back fiberglass layer, each about 
1/4" thick and are well tabbed into the hull.

This rot is making me damn nervous and my gut is telling me to cut into the 
exposed side, remove the rot, clean it up, sand, etc. and re-bed in something 
stronger than wood, then re-glass and re-tab it into the hull.

Before I try anything like that I'm just wondering if cutting then re-glassing 
one side of these original hull tabs is a bad idea? will the new tabs be strong 
enough to support the re-inforced bulkhead? (using good quality glass and epoxy)

Thanks guys,

Dan
Breakaweigh
C&C44
Halifax, NS



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Re: Stus-List Headstay Bulkhead holding Chainplate Rotten through

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I'd use 1/2" G10 FRP.  Tabbing from the back/bow side might be a trick.
I'd cut the exposed tab, remove rot, grind to clean fiberglass.  Generously
goop thickened epoxy onto the remaining tabs and clamp your pre-fabbed G10
into place.  Then filet and tab on the exposed side.

Be sure to inspect thoroughly for cracking in the SS fasteners and chain
plates... Or simply replace.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 11:49 AM Dan via CnC-List  I need the collective wisdom on this one.
>
> Pictures here:
>  IMG_6750.JPG
> 
>
>  IMG_6747.JPG
> 
>
> On Breakaweigh I discovered my forward bulkhead holding the chain plate
> for the headstay was constructed using a plywood core and had been modified
> over the years. Of course no one thought to isolate the core in there when
> drain holes were drilled and such and now the core material inside the
> bulkhead is nearly disintegrated or rotten. There is a front and back
> fiberglass layer, each about 1/4" thick and are well tabbed into the hull.
>
> This rot is making me damn nervous and my gut is telling me to cut into
> the exposed side, remove the rot, clean it up, sand, etc. and re-bed in
> something stronger than wood, then re-glass and re-tab it into the hull.
>
> Before I try anything like that I'm just wondering if cutting then
> re-glassing one side of these original hull tabs is a bad idea? will the
> new tabs be strong enough to support the re-inforced bulkhead? (using good
> quality glass and epoxy)
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Dan
> Breakaweigh
> C&C44
> Halifax, NS
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[schiller via CnC-List]

Rick,

That 50-60K spin is pocket change relative to the cost of the hydraulic 
pumps that we designed for the AC boats.  2 speed, 9 piston axial 
pumps.  Coffee grinder driven.  The components were literally made by 
the providers of F-18 flight controls, engine controls and engine 
accessories.  My team designed the pumps and the DC motor pumps used for 
the practice boats.


The Electro Hydraulic Servo Valves (EHSV) that my former division 
provided for Formula one racing were used for one race and replaced.  We 
sold about 50-100 units for a season of racing (depending on whether 
they controlled fuel, suspension or both).


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 8:45 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List wrote:


Joe;

I do agree that the foiling cats were radically different than the 
conventional sailboats we are accustomed to. And the crew work and 
training is more demanding than on a monohull. The J class boats have 
hugely higher sheet loadings and hardware that is light years bigger 
than what we have on your 35 or my 38, but the boat itself is just 
bigger and not much faster. Whether a J class or a catamaran, the 
sailing is still pretty much the same as on one of our boats.


Did you realize that Oracle was actually the faster boat in the AC 
finals in Bermuda? Her average top speed was a smidgen over 41 knots, 
while the Kiwi boat was between 40.5 and 41. Which is, on the whole, 
pretty cool since none of the races was run in over about 12 knots of 
wind.


So why did Oracle lose? Certainly there were slight difference in the 
foils, the soft headsails, and the leg powered hydraulics of the Kiwis 
gave a lot more consistent power for foils and trimmers than the 
coffee grinders on Oracle. But from watching the races on the Jumbo 
Tron at the AC pavilion, I’m pretty much convinced the margin was crew 
practice and work load management.


The skipper  of Oracle was driving. He was calling tactics. He was 
trimming the foils. He had a really cool steering wheel designed by 
BMW to control all that, plus a suite of gauges and Heads-Up displays 
that would probably rival an F18 fighter/bomber. In one race Oracle 
lost because, when they tacked the boat, they went about 15’ outside 
the boundary of the race course and had to do a 360. (The promo stuff 
in the BMW display area talked about how the boat positon on the race 
course and other tactical data was updated like 1000 times per minute. 
How could you run outside the boundary?) In pretty much every race 
they fell off the foils once or twice while tacking and jibing. And 
every time they fell off the foils (and dropped to about 9 knots) the 
Kiwis picked up a couple of hundred yards before Oracle got back up to 
speed. Spithill was just flat too busy and had too many tasks to manage.


The Kiwis almost never fell off the foils. The race commentators 
thought the bicycle powered hydraulics had something to do with it 
because trimming and changing foils was faster and perhaps had more 
reserve pressure in the accumulators. But the skipper of the Kiwi boat 
was calling tactics and trimming the foils. The helmsman was doing 
only that – driving. Someone else was trimming the main. When the 
helmsman ran to the cockpit on the other side of the boat a few 
seconds before each tack or jibe, the skipper held the wheel to keep 
the boat in a straight line until the helmsman was back in place. So I 
think superior crew work and coordination, and probably more practice 
during the LV Cup races, was the winning margin for the Kiwis.


Pretty similar to the J Class or 12 meter boats – just about 4 or 5 
times faster.


Three of us on the list went out into the sound to watch the J Class 
races in Bermuda. And I’ll admit that it was probably my most favorite 
part of the trip. We are all familiar with the groaning of a loaded 
jib sheet when you are grinding in those last few inches. Well, on a J 
class the winch is about 4 feet tall and the sheet is an inch or more 
in diameter. And the groaning of the winch was loud enough the be 
heard from my boat 100 or more yards away. The J boats are romantic – 
majestic even – but one of them blew out a spinnaker just after 
rounding the windward mark we were near – and the spin that exploded 
probably cost $50 0r $60K.  “Real” sailors can only fantasize about 
sailing one. Hull speed on my boat is a bit over 7 knots – on a J 
class about 40% more. Romantic as it is, J class or 12 meter racing is 
basically a very expensive, though sexy and more closely competitive, 
version of the beer can racing we all do.


Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE 
options: a Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau 
announced it planned to build, an A Cat (think 40%  scale AC 
catamaran, 20+ knots in 12 knots of wind, and a race ready used one 
can be had for about 20K), whatever the new maker calls the Gunboat G4 
(though a Gunboat 55 or 60 might be cool

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[schiller via CnC-List]

Rob,

Where is the Canada Cup held?  I would definitely follow it given the 
chance.  There has to be some press coverage to generate interest.  I 
always follow the Chi-Mac race and have competed in several Queen's Cup 
(Milwaukee to St. Joe/Grand Haven/South Haven/Muskegon) and Clipper Cup 
(Muskegon to Port Washington) but these are straight drag races with a 
couple races not even requiring a tack.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 10:03 AM, Rob Ball via CnC-List wrote:


Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . 
. . . .


I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For 
those not familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s 
Cup.  One Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between 
one American Club and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar 
history also . . . I was involved three times.


Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they 
are very similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection 
series. Both sent their candidate to the match race series.  It was 
EXACTLY what we all say we want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . 
. . I thought – Oh boy, this will show how popular this approach 
really is  . .


And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential 
groundswell of interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .


So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

Cheers, /Rob Ball/

Email:r...@edsonintl.com 


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Re: Stus-List Touche' steering system rebuild - update 1

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Dennis,

I had hull #111, 1972 and the rudder log support 
arrangement is just like that shown for Touch


é

including the three short plywood exposed gussets and grey paint.  :)

Okay, I changed the water-pump grease cup to an 
industrial style spring loaded unit for auto feed.


The "Red & White" aft cockpit scupper valves are 
evil, in my humble consideration (photo 
DSCF0042.jpg). The valve stem will d'zinc-ti-fy 
in salt water and break when you try to close it. 
To check it, take the valve apart and see if the 
valve stem is showing pink. Pink is bad in this case.


I had good intentions to equip Sweet with a 
rudder stop configuration but never got around to 
it ( 'round tuit ). Part of the justification on 
procrastination was recognizing the only two 
times you need rudder stop on these boats is being hove-to or backing down.


So I became very vigilant for the helmsman to 
hold firm, okay a nag, if the Admiral was backing 
down and we also sailed instead of heaving-to... 
entirely practical for our area.


At one time I thought about putting nylon 
pendants from 'rib structure" to each side of 
quadrant to limit movement but never got around to verifying if practical.


Cheers, Russ
ex - Sweet 35 mk-1


At 12:14 PM 1/29/2019, you wrote:


My hull number, in the photos, is #202, July '73.

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY

On 1/29/2019 1:40 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
Yep.  I wonder what hull number they made the 
design change?  touche' is #83.


Dennis C.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 10:54 AM schiller via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Dennis,

Looks very similar to what was on Corsair, Hull #7.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sTBZGtbZlym6_0Iw0S5DZOiWYHahCVI7

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028. "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 9:20 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:

The original post is below.

My buddy has the pedestal and associated parts 
for stripping and painting with 
AwlGrip.  Aircraft stripper does indeed 
remove powder coat.  
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OgW3dWk9fqRkoQwowu_fwg5fGehKcd_g


A local rigging shop is duplicating the wire 
rope cable for me.  The fitting on the end of 
the cable that attaches to the chain is 
apparently called a chain eye as opposed to a marine eye or aircraft eye.


There seems to be a major change in the rudder 
stop design.  Touche' is Hull 83.


Thanks to Russ, I have a good example of what 
a rudder stop should look like.  Note the 
strong vertical structural member with 
gussets.  The two plates mounted to the 
bottom of the quadrant stop against aluminum 
plates with rubber cushions on either side of the vertical structural member.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_9BPN1H7YXs586x93QLT8saZVIKJxDSr

Unfortunately, Touche' only has a thin gusset for the rudder tube:Â Â

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jaJX92DAx9vOgV2TWk-fchKrc3k3Zj2h

One other difference is that Touche's quadrant 
is installed upside down from the one on Russ' 
boat.  Go figure.  That doesn't seem to be a 
big deal.  The plates will just have to be mounted on the top of the quadrant.


I am going to have to install a vertical 
structural member.  Still finalizing the 
design but it will be similar to Russ' 
boat.  Going to be very uncomfortable working in there. Â


I'm thinking about bonding 3 pieces of marine 
ply together with the middle piece shorter so 
the thing slips down over the existing rudder 
post gusset.  I can then through bolt it in 
place and then tab it to the hull.  I will 
probably also make it with the athwartships 
gussets in place so all I need do is tab them 
to the hull.  The gussets are extremely 
important due to the side loading of the 
stops.  The more I do outside the space the easier it will be.


I won't start the job until March after I 
return from skiing.  I'll document the process and provide a link.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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