Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business

[Dave S via CnC-List]

To be clear,  my cheeky post was my own announcement, not Raymarine's who
probably feel they are still in the autopilot/instrument business.   Randy,
I'm more or less where you are on this, and I am realizing that the casual,
recreational boating space is no different than many others, where apps,
and fast-moving technology on portable technologies are clearly the
future.  (not talking about a vendee globe racer or coastguard ship)

I suppose to many its obvious, but what had not fully dawned on me when I
bought this Raystuff was that today, unlike in the past, we are buying
software as much as hardware when we buy an autopilot, display, or anything
else.Your example nails it - the software does the job, the transducer
just provides the bits and bites, and has to be good enough not to break.
This frames the firmware (which should really be called an app most of the
time) update discussion very differently, and makes you think a bit
differently about the trajectory of the technology, and about Raymarine's
customer-bruising approach.

I agree with you on the future of this stuff.  Its interesting and it's
happening quickly.

More on my electronics here - stumbles, learnings, mistakes included.
http://cncwindstar.blogspot.ca/

Dave  33-2

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 05:44:58 + (UTC)
From: RANDY 
To: cnc-list 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID:
<1263700711.917947.1474350298433.javamail.zim...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

So, I'm a neophyte compared to you guys when it comes to electronics and
instruments etc. But I wanted an inexpensive electronic wind instrument for
my boat this year, and chose the SailTimer Wind Instrument (
http://www.sailtimerwind.com ) over the basic Raymarine i40. Given
Raymarine's announcement, maybe I made a lucky choice. :) I chose the
SailTimer Wind Instrument because I liked the idea of a solar-powered
bluetooth-enabled (no wires) masthead vane sending data to an inexpensive
iOS app.

I was already familiar with the SailTimer app ( http://www.sailtimerapp.com
) from last year, and sold on its features - optimal tacking routes,
boat-specific (even sail-specific) learned polar diagrams, etc. But to be
most effective, the app needs real-time wind speed and direction
information, so I bought the instrument.

For the kind of sailing I do with my boat - club racing on a lake in
Colorado - it made the most economic sense to have a commodity device and
OS (iPad or iPhone) in the cockpit running an app from a potential
marketplace thereof, consuming an industry standard data stream over
bluetooth, instead of custom display hardware in the cockpit cabled to
sensors and running custom firmware / OS / application software. Who knows,
maybe the SailTimer approach is the way of the future.

I'm just now installing and really learning the whole setup - I ordered the
instrument in April and received it in August. So I'll write a more
thorough review later, once I've had some experience with the app and
instrument together. I'll be using the combined system for the first time
in the coming week (on Friday it's forecast to be blowing 20 gusting 30 at
my lake - woo-hoo!). But the instrument is compact and solid, and the
initial setup has been straightforward.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

- Original Message -

From: "John McKay via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "John McKay" 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:36:48 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot
business!

I bought an EV100 autohelm this spring. A few weeks ago, I got an email
from Raymarine talking about a software update. I call their tech line
asking how I could get the update since the autohelm is stand alone. The
rest of my electronics are Garmin.

He said I was out of luck. I pointed out I could update my Garmin with an
SD card. He did not give a shit!

John on Enterprise
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Dave and all: what “announcement” is this, exactly?  I still get dealer-only 
emails from Raymarine, and I haven’t received any announcements like the one 
you reference.  And as Graham mentioned, Raymarine is NOT the only one who uses 
their MFDs to update other system software.  Simrad, B&G and others do exactly 
the same thing.

Can anyone on the list with a Garmin autopilot update its software with an SD 
card, without having a Garmin MFD on the network?  How about upgrading your 
Furuno instruments?

Getting angry about this doesn’t make much sense to me.  It’s industry-wide.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 12:44 AM, RANDY via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Given Raymarine's announcement, maybe I made a lucky choice. :) 

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

My Garmin GPSMap 740 plotter uses a SD Card to update firmware after 
downloading the file to the SD card from a computer which in turn gets the file 
from the internet.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 11:06 PM
To: C&c Stus List; cnclistforw...@hotmail.com
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business!

LOL, OK, should not have implied ALL other vendors, but my cursory search found 
this this N2K to USB cable for your (?) B&G triton/navico/simrad.  Looks like 
its used in conjunction with a laptop and free dowloadable software.  You can 
also use a MFD,but are not forced to.

http://www.marine-electronics-unlimited.com/blog/?page_id=98
The Windows 8 software tool

http://www.bandg.com/de/Products/Triton-Display/Software-Upgrade-Tool/

I also checked ICOM, Furuno...
It did appear that Airmar required one of their weather stations as an 
interface to update their sensors,but I did not explore this,nor how other 
manufacturers update their Airmar-made sensors.

I'm sure there are situations where manufacturers attempt to promote a 
proprietary, closed-shop approach to updating but most of those i found did not.
Dave.
From: G Collins mailto:cnclistforw...@hotmail.com>>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID:

mailto:bn6pr14mb16342bbd0080c7410736edbad8...@bn6pr14mb1634.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Other vendors don't take this approach?  Sure they do.  I've got B&G Triton 
displays - can't do any updating on them without a B&G MFD.  Same is true with 
all that I'm aware of.  And I'd love to buy a Maretron ultrasonic tank level 
sender, it is N2K - but to calibrate it I also have to buy one of their 
displays, which I have no other use for.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

My ray eS7 does the same ……

Paul Fountain
Perception II
1985 C&C 33-II k/cb
Port Credit Yacht Club

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business!

My Garmin GPSMap 740 plotter uses a SD Card to update firmware after 
downloading the file to the SD card from a computer which in turn gets the file 
from the internet.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave S via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 11:06 PM
To: C&c Stus List; cnclistforw...@hotmail.com
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business!

LOL, OK, should not have implied ALL other vendors, but my cursory search found 
this this N2K to USB cable for your (?) B&G triton/navico/simrad.  Looks like 
its used in conjunction with a laptop and free dowloadable software.  You can 
also use a MFD,but are not forced to.

http://www.marine-electronics-unlimited.com/blog/?page_id=98
The Windows 8 software tool

http://www.bandg.com/de/Products/Triton-Display/Software-Upgrade-Tool/

I also checked ICOM, Furuno...
It did appear that Airmar required one of their weather stations as an 
interface to update their sensors,but I did not explore this,nor how other 
manufacturers update their Airmar-made sensors.

I'm sure there are situations where manufacturers attempt to promote a 
proprietary, closed-shop approach to updating but most of those i found did not.
Dave.
From: G Collins mailto:cnclistforw...@hotmail.com>>
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID:

mailto:bn6pr14mb16342bbd0080c7410736edbad8...@bn6pr14mb1634.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Other vendors don't take this approach?  Sure they do.  I've got B&G Triton 
displays - can't do any updating on them without a B&G MFD.  Same is true with 
all that I'm aware of.  And I'd love to buy a Maretron ultrasonic tank level 
sender, it is N2K - but to calibrate it I also have to buy one of their 
displays, which I have no other use for.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

I think Dave’s gripe had more to do with upgrading things other than the MFD; 
things like instruments and autopilots.  And having to do those through an MFD 
from the same manufacturer.

I don’t think I’d want to be able to upgrade a Raymarine autopilot through a 
Garmin MFD; Garmin might just sabotage the process…   :^)

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 7:26 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My ray eS7 does the same …… <>
>  
> Paul Fountain
> Perception II
> 1985 C&C 33-II k/cb
> Port Credit Yacht Club
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:23 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
> business!
>  
> My Garmin GPSMap 740 plotter uses a SD Card to update firmware after 
> downloading the file to the SD card from a computer which in turn gets the 
> file from the internet.
>  
> Mike
> Persistence
> Halifax, NS

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

You raymarine guys kill me.  Defend it to the end and drag others down when 
it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends don't 
let friends buy raymarine. 
Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to leave 
the raymarine dark side :
"The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network 
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected to. 
The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which will allow 
and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at least 300MB up to 
2GB of space is also required.
To create the update SD card, please follow these instructions:
Download the latest update from the Marine Software Update Page to your 
desktopDouble-click the file on the desktopWhen the window titled Marine 
Product Software Update appears, click the Next buttonChoose the drive letter 
that is assigned to the SD card readerClick the Next buttonOnce the update is 
completed, click the Finish buttonTake the SD card and the NMEA 2000 Network 
Updater to the boat. To connect the NMEA 2000 Network Updater into the NMEA 
2000 network, please follow these instructions:
Connect the NMEA 2000 Network Updater's cable to the T-Connector it came 
withDisconnect two T-Connectors in the NMEA 2000 network on the boatConnect the 
Network Updater's T-Connector to both of the disconnected T-Connectors from 
step 2To update the NMEA 2000 network, power on the NMEA 2000 network and all 
accessories and insert the SD card into the NMEA 2000 Network Updater.
To know when the update is complete, please review the color of the LED on the 
NMEA 2000 Network Updater:
Red - Error, no card inserted, or no update on cardOrange - Update in 
progressGreen - Update completed successfullyOnce the update is complete, the 
SD card can be removed from the Updater and all Garmin NMEA 2000 connected 
devices and accessories will be up to date."
Boom. 


Get Outlook for iOS




On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:40 AM -0500, "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" 
 wrote:










I think Dave’s gripe had more to do with upgrading things other than the MFD; 
things like instruments and autopilots.  And having to do those through an MFD 
from the same manufacturer.
I don’t think I’d want to be able to upgrade a Raymarine autopilot through a 
Garmin MFD; Garmin might just sabotage the process…   :^)


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Sep 20, 2016, at 7:26 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List  
wrote:
My ray eS7 does the same …… Paul FountainPerception II1985 C&C 33-II k/cbPort 
Credit Yacht Club From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business! My Garmin GPSMap 740 plotter uses a SD Card to update firmware after 
downloading the file to the SD card from a computer which in turn gets the file 
from the internet. MikePersistenceHalifax, NS





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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

This is absolutely nothing new at all!
I was a Raytheon dealer back in the day and they were always pulling crap like 
this. Their XX radar series was supposed to transfer a target from radar to 
chart plotter (back when this was a brand new idea). I sold a radar and plotter 
with this as a selling point. It did not work. We sent it back and after a 
month it was returned to us and now the feature was working great.
Fast forward a few months and the boat is hit by lightning. We get a new radar 
and plotter and guess what – waypoints no workee ☹ So I call Raytheon and the 
fix was a custom EPROM for JUST OUR UNIT, they only made one, the change was 
not rolled out to production yet, and the guy that did it was no longer working 
there! The frustrating thing is they make some really innovative stuff now and 
there really is no equivalent to their current wheelpilot. Despite all these 
shenanigans I don’t see an alternative except to keep on repairing my old 1980s 
AH 4000 unit. I think I have 3 drives and 2 course computers right now to swap 
parts around with, but even that won’t last forever. I will talk to my local 
Raytheon dealer, I would think they would be willing to have a shop MFD to 
update customer gear as a service and I would expect it for free if I bought it 
from them recently.
I know back in the day I had loaner instruments and SSBs I loaned out for free 
while the customers gear was sent back for warranty. If they ran off with it, I 
just kept theirs for the next loaner ☺
Joe
Coquina

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Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Dave S via CnC-List]

OK, my cheeky tabloid headline was more provocative than I expected!

This locked down approach is indeed the historic norm, but today it is not
industry-wide, and it is changing fast.  Another example of disruptive
technologies reshaping an industry, and the industry trying to (or trying
not to) adapt..  
For my part, I am far more fascinated than I am angry, its interesting, and
a moment in time in an industry.

Will check Furuno later, (might have been ICOM), I did this quickly and did
not save what I found.   Navico I already posted - needs a cable, software,
PC, and Garmin looks like it needs a chartplotter.

Compared to my '80s B&G hunter stuff, my Raymarine i70 multifunction
instrument is amazing.   I'm starting to realize though, that it
is simply a dumbed-down ruggedized ipod touch with a senior-friendly user
interface that can run only one app.   Forever.   ;-)Ooops, provocative
again!

All playfulness and side debates aside, if the new normal is that software
updates are part of ownership, hardware ownership should not come with
undisclosed hidden costs.

Dave

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:05:37 -0500
From: Frederick G Street 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID: <329cad61-d4a1-44ec-9b6e-c43be1b65...@postaudio.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dave and all: what ?announcement? is this, exactly?  I still get
dealer-only emails from Raymarine, and I haven?t received any announcements
like the one you reference.  And as Graham mentioned, Raymarine is NOT the
only one who uses their MFDs to update other system software.  Simrad, B&G
and others do exactly the same thing.

Can anyone on the list with a Garmin autopilot update its software with an
SD card, without having a Garmin MFD on the network?  How about upgrading
your Furuno instruments?

Getting angry about this doesn?t make much sense to me.  It?s industry-wide.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 12:44 AM, RANDY via CnC-List 
wrote:
>
> Given Raymarine's announcement, maybe I made a lucky choice. :)

-- next part --
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Dave,

Yes, the industry is changing, but it is such a niche market so that
development costs are spread over a small product run.  Signal K and other
protocols may make it easier to mix and match. However, everyone uses
proprietary NMEA sentences for their products.  Besides, no one says you
have to upgrade your software.

Ever try to upload an I app to the Apple store?  You can only do it on a
Mac!

Joel

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> OK, my cheeky tabloid headline was more provocative than I expected!
>
> This locked down approach is indeed the historic norm, but today it is not
> industry-wide, and it is changing fast.  Another example of disruptive
> technologies reshaping an industry, and the industry trying to (or trying
> not to) adapt..  
> For my part, I am far more fascinated than I am angry, its interesting,
> and a moment in time in an industry.
>
> Will check Furuno later, (might have been ICOM), I did this quickly and
> did not save what I found.   Navico I already posted - needs a cable,
> software, PC, and Garmin looks like it needs a chartplotter.
>
> Compared to my '80s B&G hunter stuff, my Raymarine i70 multifunction
> instrument is amazing.   I'm starting to realize though, that it
> is simply a dumbed-down ruggedized ipod touch with a senior-friendly user
> interface that can run only one app.   Forever.   ;-)Ooops, provocative
> again!
>
> All playfulness and side debates aside, if the new normal is that software
> updates are part of ownership, hardware ownership should not come with
> undisclosed hidden costs.
>
> Dave
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 07:05:37 -0500
> From: Frederick G Street 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
> autopilot business!
> Message-ID: <329cad61-d4a1-44ec-9b6e-c43be1b65...@postaudio.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dave and all: what ?announcement? is this, exactly?  I still get
> dealer-only emails from Raymarine, and I haven?t received any announcements
> like the one you reference.  And as Graham mentioned, Raymarine is NOT the
> only one who uses their MFDs to update other system software.  Simrad, B&G
> and others do exactly the same thing.
>
> Can anyone on the list with a Garmin autopilot update its software with an
> SD card, without having a Garmin MFD on the network?  How about upgrading
> your Furuno instruments?
>
> Getting angry about this doesn?t make much sense to me.  It?s
> industry-wide.
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> > On Sep 20, 2016, at 12:44 AM, RANDY via CnC-List 
> wrote:
> >
> > Given Raymarine's announcement, maybe I made a lucky choice. :)
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/
> attachments/20160920/45e51b60/attachment-0001.html>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[David via CnC-List]

Neil,

You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual width 
when hull tucks under).

This is my solution.

Thanks!

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 19:42:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: schil...@bloomingdalecom.net


  

  
  
Glenn Gambell from the list turned me on to using
  electrical tape to mask the boot strip.  extremely flexible and
  cheap, if there is a Harbour Freight nearby.

  

  Neil Schiller

  1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7

  (C&C 35, Mark I)

  "Corsair"



On 9/19/2016 2:44 PM, Andrew Burton via
  CnC-List wrote:



  

  

  
Yes, tape the stripes then sand up to them. I'd say
  wet sand with 220 or 320, depending on how much shine
  you're after. If the tape edge gets messed up, just
  re-tape it before you paint.


I'd use awl grip, again. I would call the techs at the
company and ask if you need to prime over the old awl
grip. Use a decent brush and paint them one at time so
you don't lose your "wet edge" and you should be fine.



  
  Cheers


Andy

  
  C&C 40


Peregrine


  

  

  

 

  

  

  

  
  

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:37 PM, David
  via CnC-List 
  wrote:

  

  Want to freshen up Awlgriped water line
stripes. 



I assume I need to sand it but do not want to sand the
topsides or the blue stripe between the two white
stripes.  I will be taping of course but just sand over
tape?  Wont the sanding affect the tapes edge and
therefore the ultimate paint line will be sloppy?



Paint choice for painting and any other suggestions for
the job?



Thanks in advance



David F. Risch

1981 40-2

(401) 419-4650 (cell)

  



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costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly
appreciated!



  






-- 

Andrew
  Burton

  61 W Narragansett Ave

  Newport, RI

  USA 02840

  http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/

  phone  +401 965 5260
  
  

  
  

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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
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greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

David,

I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Neil,
>
> You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme
> curvature under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to
> maintain visual width when hull tucks under).
>
> This is my solution.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 19:42:14 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: schil...@bloomingdalecom.net
>
> Glenn Gambell from the list turned me on to using electrical tape to mask
> the boot strip.  extremely flexible and cheap, if there is a Harbour
> Freight nearby.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
> (C&C 35, Mark I)
> "Corsair"
>
> On 9/19/2016 2:44 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Yes, tape the stripes then sand up to them. I'd say wet sand with 220 or
> 320, depending on how much shine you're after. If the tape edge gets messed
> up, just re-tape it before you paint.
> I'd use awl grip, again. I would call the techs at the company and ask if
> you need to prime over the old awl grip. Use a decent brush and paint them
> one at time so you don't lose your "wet edge" and you should be fine.
>
> Cheers
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:37 PM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
>
> Want to freshen up Awlgriped water line stripes.
>
> I assume I need to sand it but do not want to sand the topsides or the
> blue stripe between the two white stripes.  I will be taping of course but
> just sand over tape?  Wont the sanding affect the tapes edge and therefore
> the ultimate paint line will be sloppy?
>
> Paint choice for painting and any other suggestions for the job?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> David F. Risch
> 1981 40-2
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone  +401 965 5260
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___ This list is supported by
> the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help
> us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Pete

Have used ST60 speed/depth/wind on the last number of boats that we sailed on 
extensively.  Robust instruments and easy to use.  Only issue was the 
connectors on the back had to be replaced on the wire ends after a few years 
(annoyance).  Used B&G for a bit with current boat when we bought it and really 
did not like them.  Displays were starting to fail and absolutely no way to 
replace with newer model displays so built in obsolescence.  Also very 
expensive.

I won’t speak to the plotters, radars and other instruments but I have always 
liked these three standard sailing instruments.  Our current i50/i60 series are 
also very nice but do not look to be built as ruggedly as the ST50 / ST60 
series.

I am also not a fan of having an iPad floating around in the cockpit.  Nav 
station yes, cockpit no.  If I was to be dependent on a device such as an iPad 
and it got knocked around or overboard in rough weather that would at the very 
least be a distraction.  Very nice for redundant system but I cannot see it 
being a primary system until it is made to the same rugged standards as 
existing instrumentation.

My $0.02

Mike
Persistence

Raymarine i50/i60 speed, depth, wind
Raymarine wheel pilot
Garmin GPSMAP 740
Standard Horizon GX2200 with AIS display and ram mic
Ramarine a65
KVH Sailcomp
Microsoft Surface with Navionics

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Pete 
Shelquist via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:59 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Pete Shelquist
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business!

You raymarine guys kill me.  Defend it to the end and drag others down when 
it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends don't 
let friends buy raymarine.

Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to leave 
the raymarine dark side :

"The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network 
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected to. 
The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which will allow 
and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at least 300MB up to 
2GB of space is also required.

To create the update SD card, please follow these instructions:

Download the latest update from the Marine Software Update Page to your desktop
Double-click the file on the desktop
When the window titled Marine Product Software Update appears, click the Next 
button
Choose the drive letter that is assigned to the SD card reader
Click the Next button
Once the update is completed, click the Finish button
Take the SD card and the NMEA 2000 Network Updater to the boat. To connect the 
NMEA 2000 Network Updater into the NMEA 2000 network, please follow these 
instructions:

Connect the NMEA 2000 Network Updater's cable to the T-Connector it came with
Disconnect two T-Connectors in the NMEA 2000 network on the boat
Connect the Network Updater's T-Connector to both of the disconnected 
T-Connectors from step 2
To update the NMEA 2000 network, power on the NMEA 2000 network and all 
accessories and insert the SD card into the NMEA 2000 Network Updater.

To know when the update is complete, please review the color of the LED on the 
NMEA 2000 Network Updater:

Red - Error, no card inserted, or no update on card
Orange - Update in progress
Green - Update completed successfully
Once the update is complete, the SD card can be removed from the Updater and 
all Garmin NMEA 2000 connected devices and accessories will be up to date."

Boom.


Get Outlook for iOS



On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:40 AM -0500, "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I think Dave’s gripe had more to do with upgrading things other than the MFD; 
things like instruments and autopilots.  And having to do those through an MFD 
from the same manufacturer.

I don’t think I’d want to be able to upgrade a Raymarine autopilot through a 
Garmin MFD; Garmin might just sabotage the process…   :^)

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Sep 20, 2016, at 7:26 AM, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

My ray eS7 does the same ……

Paul Fountain
Perception II
1985 C&C 33-II k/cb
Port Credit Yacht Club

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business!

My Garmin GPSMap 740 plotter uses a SD Card to update firmware after 
downloading the file to the SD card from a computer which in turn gets the file 
from the internet.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

___

This list is supported by the generous

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

David,

I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some Awlcraft 
painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the Awlgrip (and my 
painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the gloss vs. non-skid 
prior to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck sometime this week or 
next and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use. Electrical tape is a bit 
stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.

Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to mark 
the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level 
fore-and-aft and side-to-side.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> Neil,
> 
> You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
> under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual 
> width when hull tucks under).
> 
> This is my solution.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650  (cell)
> 
> 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Raymarine is not so bad.   

When the day comes that you buy a device, which is not from Raymarine, but you 
are required to use a Raymarine MFD to upgrade the software or even use the 
device, then you’ll feel like a Mac(or Linux) user.  As a non-Microsoft 
software user, I feel your pain.But after many years to navigating my C&C 
29 via laptop(my dell hackintosh), iPad, and then iPhone, I finally purchased a 
Raymarine e7D chart plotter for my LF38, and I have to say, I like the kool-aid 
so far.  

-
Paul E.
1981 C&C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Pete - patience man, I'm a 53 year old luddite!

The realization of how all this "fits" is just dawning on me, and many of
the writings I have read on the subject are now making much more sense.
Thanks for the Garmin info, they too have an n2k updater it seems.   They
don't promote these aggressively , but at least they are available.

For the record, the raymarine guys I was connected with were really
helpful, but the situation is what it is. Also for the record, I have zero
brand loyalty/axe to grind for/with anyone.

Had I known then what I know now, I'd have (dispassionately) chosen another
brand.(s)I do think it is something important to consider when
weighting options today.

Dave



PDate: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:58:42 + (UTC)
From: Pete Shelquist 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com,  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
autopilot business!
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You raymarine guys kill me. ?Defend it to the end and drag others down when
it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends
don't let friends buy raymarine.?
Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to
leave the raymarine dark side :
"The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected
to. The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which
will allow and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at
least 300MB up to 2GB of space is also required.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[RANDY via CnC-List]

Mike I would feel the same way (about having an iPad floating around the 
cockpit) if I was critically dependent on the device for navigation while 
sailing on bigger waters than my little lake :) I'm sure there are solutions 
for waterproof-encasing an iPad and mounting it firmly in the cockpit etc. But 
you'd still have to keep it charged if sailing for long time periods, and what 
if a solar-powered bluetooth-enabled instrument failed and could no longer 
transmit, etc. I generally aspire to coastal cruising, and when I do that I 
will want proven ruggedized instrumentation. But for racing Grenadine around 
Chatfield Reservoir, the SailTimer products were very fitting - affordable and 
intriguing. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike via CnC-List Hoyt"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Mike Hoyt"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 8:11:21 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business! 



Pete 



Have used ST60 speed/depth/wind on the last number of boats that we sailed on 
extensively. Robust instruments and easy to use. Only issue was the connectors 
on the back had to be replaced on the wire ends after a few years (annoyance). 
Used B&G for a bit with current boat when we bought it and really did not like 
them. Displays were starting to fail and absolutely no way to replace with 
newer model displays so built in obsolescence. Also very expensive. 



I won’t speak to the plotters, radars and other instruments but I have always 
liked these three standard sailing instruments. Our current i50/i60 series are 
also very nice but do not look to be built as ruggedly as the ST50 / ST60 
series. 



I am also not a fan of having an iPad floating around in the cockpit. Nav 
station yes, cockpit no. If I was to be dependent on a device such as an iPad 
and it got knocked around or overboard in rough weather that would at the very 
least be a distraction. Very nice for redundant system but I cannot see it 
being a primary system until it is made to the same rugged standards as 
existing instrumentation. 



My $0.02 



Mike 

Persistence 



Raymarine i50/i60 speed, depth, wind 

Raymarine wheel pilot 

Garmin GPSMAP 740 

Standard Horizon GX2200 with AIS display and ram mic 

Ramarine a65 

KVH Sailcomp 

Microsoft Surface with Navionics 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Pete 
Shelquist via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:59 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Pete Shelquist 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot 
business! 





You raymarine guys kill me. Defend it to the end and drag others down when it's 
obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends don't let 
friends buy raymarine. 





Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to leave 
the raymarine dark side : 





"The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network 
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected to. 
The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which will allow 
and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at least 300MB up to 
2GB of space is also required. 





To create the update SD card, please follow these instructions: 





Download the latest update from the Marine Software Update Page to your desktop 


Double-click the file on the desktop 


When the window titled Marine Product Software Update appears, click the Next 
button 


Choose the drive letter that is assigned to the SD card reader 


Click the Next button 


Once the update is completed, click the Finish button 


Take the SD card and the NMEA 2000 Network Updater to the boat. To connect the 
NMEA 2000 Network Updater into the NMEA 2000 network, please follow these 
instructions: 





Connect the NMEA 2000 Network Updater's cable to the T-Connector it came with 


Disconnect two T-Connectors in the NMEA 2000 network on the boat 


Connect the Network Updater's T-Connector to both of the disconnected 
T-Connectors from step 2 


To update the NMEA 2000 network, power on the NMEA 2000 network and all 
accessories and insert the SD card into the NMEA 2000 Network Updater. 





To know when the update is complete, please review the color of the LED on the 
NMEA 2000 Network Updater: 





Red - Error, no card inserted, or no update on card 


Orange - Update in progress 


Green - Update completed successfully 


Once the update is complete, the SD card can be removed from the Updater and 
all Garmin NMEA 2000 connected devices and accessories will be up to date." 





Boom. 








Get Outlook for iOS 









On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:40 AM -0500, "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 


I think Dave’s gripe had more to do with upgrading things other than the MFD; 
things like instruments and autopilots. And having to do those through a

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

You can get painter masking tape as think as ¼ inch.  Use that for the 
contoured areas and then put something wider overlapping over that.  Has always 
worked for me when painting decks, etc …

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dave Godwin
Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

David,

I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some Awlcraft 
painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the Awlgrip (and my 
painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the gloss vs. non-skid 
prior to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck sometime this week or 
next and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use. Electrical tape is a bit 
stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.

Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to mark 
the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level 
fore-and-aft and side-to-side.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit

On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

David,

I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Neil,

You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual width 
when hull tucks under).

This is my solution.

Thanks!

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[David via CnC-List]

So bottom line for those who do not want to spend too much time thinking on 
this...

Stick with one manufacturer throughout whether upgrading or buying anew.

Limiting but given the scope and decent reliability of product of the leading 
players not so bad?

(Raymarine by default and still happy)

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:17:18 -0400
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: syerd...@gmail.com


Pete - patience man, I'm a 53 year old luddite!   
The realization of how all this "fits" is just dawning on me, and many of the 
writings I have read on the subject are now making much more sense.   Thanks 
for the Garmin info, they too have an n2k updater it seems.   They don't 
promote these aggressively , but at least they are available.   
For the record, the raymarine guys I was connected with were really helpful, 
but the situation is what it is. Also for the record, I have zero brand 
loyalty/axe to grind for/with anyone.   
Had I known then what I know now, I'd have (dispassionately) chosen another 
brand.(s)I do think it is something important to consider when weighting 
options today.
Dave


PDate: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:58:42 + (UTC)
 From: Pete Shelquist 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com,  
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
 autopilot business!
 Message-ID:
 


 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 You raymarine guys kill me. ?Defend it to the end and drag others down when 
it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends don't 
let friends buy raymarine.?
 Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to leave 
the raymarine dark side :
 "The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network 
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected to. 
The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which will allow 
and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at least 300MB up to 
2GB of space is also required.

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated! ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[David via CnC-List]

My biggest concern is flexibility at the aft end where the strips starts 
curving radically.   1/4" painters tape is flexible?

Thanks in advance

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:50:57 +
Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com









You can get painter masking tape as think as ¼ inch.  Use that for the 
contoured areas and then put something wider overlapping over that.  Has always 
worked
 for me when painting decks, etc …
 


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Godwin via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:45 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Cc: Dave Godwin

Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...


 
David,

 


I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some Awlcraft 
painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the Awlgrip (and my 
painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the gloss vs. non-skid 
prior
 to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck sometime this week or next 
and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use. Electrical tape is a bit 
stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.


 


Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to mark 
the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level 
fore-and-aft and side-to-side.


 


Best,





Dave Godwin

1982 C&C 37 - Ronin

Reedville - Chesapeake Bay


Ronin’s Overdue Refit





 



On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
wrote:

 


David,

 


I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.



 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List  
wrote:


Neil,



You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual width 
when hull tucks under).



This is my solution.



Thanks!



David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)
















 





___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated! ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

David, I use Fine Line tape on my models making the same curves only at
1/2" to the foot! You should be able to make 3/4" tape go around the bends
at full scale.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:01 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My biggest concern is flexibility at the aft end where the strips starts
> curving radically.   1/4" painters tape is flexible?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:50:57 +
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com
>
>
> You can get painter masking tape as think as ¼ inch.  Use that for the
> contoured areas and then put something wider overlapping over that.  Has
> always worked for me when painting decks, etc …
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> Godwin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:45 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Dave Godwin
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some
> Awlcraft painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the
> Awlgrip (and my painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the
> gloss vs. non-skid prior to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck
> sometime this week or next and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use.
> Electrical tape is a bit stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.
>
>
>
> Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to
> mark the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level
> fore-and-aft and side-to-side.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Neil,
>
> You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme
> curvature under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to
> maintain visual width when hull tucks under).
>
> This is my solution.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
> --
>
>
>
> ___ This list is supported by
> the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help
> us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

David,

I’m sure that painter’s tape will be fine but the 3M 218 Fine Line comes in 
1/4” width and it will curve just fine around your stem. The final few inches 
at the end will probably need some piece-work.

I realize the the laser suggestion is not what you were interested in. Thought 
that there was no previous boot stripe. Tip: use your eye when laying out the 
tape over the long runs. Constantly go back and re-adjust the tape as 
necessary. Should be good to go.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:01 AM, David via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> My biggest concern is flexibility at the aft end where the strips starts 
> curving radically.   1/4" painters tape is flexible?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
> 
> 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:50:57 +
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com
> 
> You can get painter masking tape as think as ¼ inch.  Use that for the 
> contoured areas and then put something wider overlapping over that.  Has 
> always worked for me when painting decks, etc …
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
> Godwin via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:45 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Dave Godwin
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
>  
> David,
>  
> I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some 
> Awlcraft painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the Awlgrip 
> (and my painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the gloss vs. 
> non-skid prior to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck sometime this 
> week or next and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use. Electrical tape 
> is a bit stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.
>  
> Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to 
> mark the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level 
> fore-and-aft and side-to-side.
>  
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>  
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>  
> David,
>  
> I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.
>  
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> Neil,
> 
> You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
> under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual 
> width when hull tucks under).
> 
> This is my solution.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 <> (cell)
> 
>  
> 
> ___ This list is supported by the 
> generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay 
> for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

What Andy said. I use 3/4” tape and it works (curves..) just fine. 

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> David, I use Fine Line tape on my models making the same curves only at 1/2" 
> to the foot! You should be able to make 3/4" tape go around the bends at full 
> scale.
> 
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 11:01 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> My biggest concern is flexibility at the aft end where the strips starts 
> curving radically.   1/4" painters tape is flexible?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650  (cell)
> 
> 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 14:50:57 +
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> CC: mike.h...@impgroup.com 
> 
> 
> You can get painter masking tape as think as ¼ inch.  Use that for the 
> contoured areas and then put something wider overlapping over that.  Has 
> always worked for me when painting decks, etc …
> 
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:45 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Dave Godwin
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Repainting Waterline Stripe...
> 
>  
> David,
> 
>  
> I’d spend the few extra bucks and get a good 3M tape. I just did some 
> Awlcraft painting for gloss and non-skid on my hatches and I used the Awlgrip 
> (and my painter) recommended 3M 218 Fine Line tape for masking the gloss vs. 
> non-skid prior to spraying. I’ll be masking off the entire deck sometime this 
> week or next and I find the 218 properties to be easy to use. Electrical tape 
> is a bit stretchy and I’m not fond of the glue used.
> 
>  
> Don’t know what your setup with the boat in the yard is but a good way to 
> mark the waterline and boot stripes is with a laser. Boat’s gotta be level 
> fore-and-aft and side-to-side.
> 
>  
> Best,
> 
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> 
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>  
> On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>  
> David,
> 
>  
> I would check with the manufacturer to see what you can use over AwlGrip.
> 
>  
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
> Neil,
> 
> You are the man...as my next question was how to follow the extreme curvature 
> under the stern (waterline and curves widens radically to maintain visual 
> width when hull tucks under).
> 
> This is my solution.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 <> (cell)
> 
>  
> 
> ___ This list is supported by the 
> generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay 
> for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> 
> phone  +401 965 5260
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Joel,

That's pretty much the nut of it, there is not the same critical mass or
informed user base as with  mainstream mobile computing, (and this IS
mobile computing) and today, the tradeoff exists between the benefits (many
contrived) of single-brand solutions, and the benefits of a more open
approach.  Still, they have to strategize about their new competition - a
$50, full featured chartplotter,   (yes, in a relatively fragile device) on
technologies with very short (relatively) life cycles and blistering
innovation rates.   Amazing really.

I dealt with the fragility issues by buying a lifeproof case and RAM
mount.  Pretty rugged stuff, and fine for my application - summer sailing
on Lake Ontario.

I differ a bit on the software upgrade opinion - as with cars this could be
a safety and liability issue for the manufacturers.   If they make it
unreasonably difficult, they have a problem.  something else for them to
grapple with.

Other than chartplotters, tablet based Apps are thin on the ground so far,
partly because of the small market, partly the "closed shop" of the major
players, and - somewhat related- partly because "open" wireless N2K is in
its infancy, though this is changing.  The next few years will be
interesting!

Dave



Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 09:57:01 -0400
From: Joel Aronson 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dave,

Yes, the industry is changing, but it is such a niche market so that
development costs are spread over a small product run.  Signal K and other
protocols may make it easier to mix and match. However, everyone uses
proprietary NMEA sentences for their products.  Besides, no one says you
have to upgrade your software.

Ever try to upload an I app to the Apple store?  You can only do it on a
Mac!

Joel
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Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had pulled out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and into small dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the ends had worn off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to prop.  Some on list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the dimples, still in place.  
No excessive vibration or anything.  
Bolts still appear tight.
Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, another on top. 
Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience. 
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CNC 36
Pentwater, Michigan
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

One boat that was forever doing this turned out to have a bad motor mount. 
Might want to check that…
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William 
Walker via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 16:17
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling


Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had pulled 
out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and into small 
dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the ends had worn 
off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to prop.  Some on 
list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  
Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the 
dimples, still in place.
No excessive vibration or anything.
Bolts still appear tight.
Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, another 
on top.
Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience.
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CNC 36
Pentwater, Michigan
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[Steve Staten via CnC-List]

Five years ago, on one of my first solo sails on C’est La Vie, I allowed a jib 
sheet to get overboard as I was motoring into the drowned ravine that is the 
marina, here on the reservoir. I was focused on maintaining course. The ravine 
is maybe 30 meters narrow, lined with expensive boats. The sheet and propeller 
became enamored of each other and in taking the relationship to the next level 
(the way snakes do), they managed to pull the propeller shaft free from the 
coupling and the Westerbeke’s transmission. The coupling is a large rubber 
donut about one inch thick and maybe eight inches in diameter. It was all 
chewed up BUT the shaft bearing was not leaking. The boat glided to a complete 
stop about 20 meters from the beginning of the dock.

I had not yet learned to scull so I dropped anchor and swam to shore with my 
phone and wallet in a ziplock bag on top of one of those square floating seat 
cushions pushed gently ahead of me.  It was a Sunday evening with no one around 
and the sun going down behind the trees. The next day, I returned to assess the 
damage. The temperature was in the mid-nineties (F) and the boat was a 
fiberglass sweat lodge. The largest washers available managed to keep enough of 
the torn parts of the coupler together in one piece to allow me to restart the 
engine and ease into my slip.  I was not yet a lister here and had NO idea how 
to replace the coupler.

In despair, I searched local roadsides for blown tires by the side of the road 
(with polyester cords, of course). I finally found a good candidate and 
fashioned a replacement coupler from the tread by dulling many box cutters. The 
bolt holes needed a rat tail file to enlarge the drilled holes.  The tire tread 
has performed just fine since then.

Steve Staten
C’Est La Vie
26’ C&C
Langley, OK, USA

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William 
Walker via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 3:17 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling


Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had pulled 
out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and into small 
dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the ends had worn 
off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to prop.  Some on 
list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  
Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the 
dimples, still in place.
No excessive vibration or anything.
Bolts still appear tight.
Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, another 
on top.
Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience.
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CNC 36
Pentwater, Michigan
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I would take the shaft and coupling to a reputable prop/shaft shop and have
them properly mate the shaft and coupling and drill proper depressions for
the set screws.

I did that when I re-powered Touche' and bought a new shaft as part of the
upgrade.  Did it with the boat in the water.

If you're brave, you can do it without a haul out.  My diver buddy has a
collection of "spare" shafts.  He will loosen the packing, pull the shaft
to be worked on, and temporarily replace it with one of his "spares".

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 3:17 PM, William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had
> pulled out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and
> into small dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time
> the ends had worn off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was
> applied to prop.  Some on list checked and had similar problems.  I was
> surprised so many
> Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.
> Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the
> dimples, still in place.
> No excessive vibration or anything.
> Bolts still appear tight.
> Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged,
> another on top.
> Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience.
> Bill Walker
> Evening Star
> CNC 36
> Pentwater, Michigan
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

I agree with you. If I had known Raymarine's love of proprietary,
lock-you-in, charge-as-much-as-they-please techniques, I probably wouldn't
have bought an i70 and wind instrument.  (It's pretty astounding how much
they charge per foot for a backbone cable, and even the little plastic caps
you use to terminate it)

I can see how for some people that aspect isn't that important though,
there are other things to consider like hardware quality and reliability.

Being in the software industry it was just amazing to see the effort
Raymarine has made to maintain incompatibility / closed systems. In
software if you have a common transfer protocol that companies are building
their own proprietary things on top of, it's either intentional or
incompetence. Raymarine doesn't seem incompetent so I have to conclude it's
intentional.

Apple is actually a good example of a software company that uses similar
proprietary lock-in techniques to create a closed system. Just take for
example their proprietary charging port and the latest iphone decision to
remove an open standard (audio jack) in favor of a closed standard (Apple
charging port with proprietary audio jack adapter).

People that go Apple are deciding that paying a premium for equivalent
hardware is worth it for whatever benefits they believe they get out of it
(ex, better UX design?). With Apple it's not as bad though because they at
least try to make things easier for the consumer.

The good news is I think software updates to an i70 are much less important
than updates to a chartplotter. Wind algorithms don't change that often,
and I'm basically happy with the UI. Charts and charting UI do change
often. My three Android devices cost less than a Raymarine MFD and provide
triple redundancy.

-Patrick
S/V Violet Hour, Seattle, WA
C&C LF38

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:00 AM,  wrote:

> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Dave S 
> To: "C&c Stus List" 
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 11:47:59 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
> Joel,
>
> That's pretty much the nut of it, there is not the same critical mass or
> informed user base as with  mainstream mobile computing, (and this IS
> mobile computing) and today, the tradeoff exists between the benefits (many
> contrived) of single-brand solutions, and the benefits of a more open
> approach.  Still, they have to strategize about their new competition - a
> $50, full featured chartplotter,   (yes, in a relatively fragile device) on
> technologies with very short (relatively) life cycles and blistering
> innovation rates.   Amazing really.
>
> I dealt with the fragility issues by buying a lifeproof case and RAM
> mount.  Pretty rugged stuff, and fine for my application - summer sailing
> on Lake Ontario.
>
> I differ a bit on the software upgrade opinion - as with cars this could
> be a safety and liability issue for the manufacturers.   If they make it
> unreasonably difficult, they have a problem.  something else for them to
> grapple with.
>
> Other than chartplotters, tablet based Apps are thin on the ground so far,
> partly because of the small market, partly the "closed shop" of the major
> players, and - somewhat related- partly because "open" wireless N2K is in
> its infancy, though this is changing.  The next few years will be
> interesting!
>
> Dave
>
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot business!

[G Collins via CnC-List]

You Ray haters kill me...   just kidding!  But sometimes it pays to read 
the manual before you buy, and they are all available online these days.

That Garmin thing is a cool solution, I like it.  The Navico (B&G) 
version doesn't seem to be available anywhere, so that may have been a 
possible route to firmware updates but no longer...

I guess my conclusion early on was to get a MDF that goes with the big 
electronics on the boat, so my a75 MDF can update my EV200 autopilot.  
And IMHO it makes sense to have the same brand of anyway, so that you 
are sure they will work together as best they can.  My wind/speed/depth 
system, since it is B&G, is essentially orphaned.  I'm not so concerned 
with that.  And I am quite happy with my Raymarine gear, whereas I've 
had two Triton displays malfunction on me in the same 3 seasons.

As to why you can't update one companies gear from another companies 
MDF, I can't see any company signing up for that - say I update my B&G 
firmware over my Ray MDF, and next thing my Triton displays are bricks - 
who do I call to get it resolved? That would not be a fun day.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2016-09-20 9:58 AM, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List wrote:
> You raymarine guys kill me.  Defend it to the end and drag others down 
> when it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: 
> friends don't let friends buy raymarine.
>
> Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to 
> leave the raymarine dark side :
>
>


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Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Bill,

 

I’ve had to separate the shaft from my coupling several times.  It has always 
been an long, arduous process.  I can’t imagine how it would ever work its way 
loose.  The first time I had it apart, I even sanded the inside of the coupling 
to allow the shaft to slide back in place without too much effort.

 

With you engine in forward gear, the prop should be trying to push the shaft 
into the coupler.  Do you spend a lot of time in reverse?  ;-) 

 

A deeper dimple might capture the set screws better.  They should never come 
loose.  I recommend Loctite blue.  In this application, you could probably use 
the red variety.  Applying some heat to the screws makes removal fairly easy, 
if it ever needs to be done.

 

I agree with others that the root cause may be vibration.  Pulling the shaft to 
check it would be prudent, if you’re into the project this far.  Also, examine 
the prop for any abnormalities.  Finally, how are the engine mounts, especially 
when the engine is under load?  Excessive movement may exacerbate your coupling 
issue.

 

My $.02 worth.

 

Jake

 

 

Jake Brodersen

C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William 
Walker via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 16:17
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

 

Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had pulled 
out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and into small 
dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the ends had worn 
off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to prop.  Some on 
list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  
Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the 
dimples, still in place.  
No excessive vibration or anything.  
Bolts still appear tight.
Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, another 
on top. 
Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience. 
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CNC 36
Pentwater, Michigan

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

If I may add to it, if I understand correctly, the set screws should not carry 
any load - it should be first, the friction between the coupling and the shaft 
(they should be perfectly mated), and second the key and the keyway.

 

One other thing: the set screws should be used only once. The second time 
around they don’t bite well enough into the shaft.

 

The two set screws in the hole is a method used by the PSS dripless shaft seal. 
One set of set screws goes into the hole all the way and the second is 
tightened above them (to prevent them to undo).

 

My $0.02 (I am not sure if it is worth that much, though)

 

Marek

 

1994 C270 ”Legato”

Ottawa, ON

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jake 
Brodersen via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 20:28
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jake Brodersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

 

Bill,

 

I’ve had to separate the shaft from my coupling several times.  It has always 
been an long, arduous process.  I can’t imagine how it would ever work its way 
loose.  The first time I had it apart, I even sanded the inside of the coupling 
to allow the shaft to slide back in place without too much effort.

 

With you engine in forward gear, the prop should be trying to push the shaft 
into the coupler.  Do you spend a lot of time in reverse?  ;-) 

 

A deeper dimple might capture the set screws better.  They should never come 
loose.  I recommend Loctite blue.  In this application, you could probably use 
the red variety.  Applying some heat to the screws makes removal fairly easy, 
if it ever needs to be done.

 

I agree with others that the root cause may be vibration.  Pulling the shaft to 
check it would be prudent, if you’re into the project this far.  Also, examine 
the prop for any abnormalities.  Finally, how are the engine mounts, especially 
when the engine is under load?  Excessive movement may exacerbate your coupling 
issue.

 

My $.02 worth.

 

Jake

 

 

Jake Brodersen

C&C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William 
Walker via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 16:17
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com  
Subject: Stus-List Prop Shaft coupling

 

Some may remember that around mid summer I posted that my prop shaft had pulled 
out of coupling.  Mine has two bolts which go through coupling and into small 
dimples drilled into shaft.  They were wired in and over time the ends had worn 
off and allowed shaft to pull out when reversed was applied to prop.  Some on 
list checked and had similar problems.  I was surprised so many
Well, on haul out I discover it has happened again, with the new bolts.  
Haven't pulled them yet to see, but shaft pulled enough to show key and the 
dimples, still in place.  
No excessive vibration or anything.  
Bolts still appear tight.
Thinking maybe of going with two set screws in each hole, one snugged, another 
on top. 
Love to hear thoughts from listers with some experience. 
Bill Walker
Evening Star
CNC 36
Pentwater, Michigan

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

Patrick, I have to chime in for Apple here - and not speaking to the iPhone
7 because I haven't been paying attention and I'm an Android guy, but there
is no "hardware lock in" with Apple. "Ecosystem" lock in, absolutely. You
get the iPhone so you're locked to their App store - yes. This is also true
for Android. There are benefits and there are drawbacks, but hardware lock
in - no. They use all the same ports everyone else uses these days. I'm a
Windows, Linux and Mac guy ... Someone wants to take my macbook? - from my
cold dead hands!

The XPS laptops and that come close in industrial design these days - they
have that nice edge display. But it's still Windows and well, Windows was
my first, but it's a total kludge fest compared to the UI in OSX. I use
both, every day and once upon a time, back in the OS9 days, I made fun of
the mac guys.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I agree with you. If I had known Raymarine's love of proprietary,
> lock-you-in, charge-as-much-as-they-please techniques, I probably wouldn't
> have bought an i70 and wind instrument.  (It's pretty astounding how much
> they charge per foot for a backbone cable, and even the little plastic caps
> you use to terminate it)
>
> I can see how for some people that aspect isn't that important though,
> there are other things to consider like hardware quality and reliability.
>
> Being in the software industry it was just amazing to see the effort
> Raymarine has made to maintain incompatibility / closed systems. In
> software if you have a common transfer protocol that companies are building
> their own proprietary things on top of, it's either intentional or
> incompetence. Raymarine doesn't seem incompetent so I have to conclude it's
> intentional.
>
> Apple is actually a good example of a software company that uses similar
> proprietary lock-in techniques to create a closed system. Just take for
> example their proprietary charging port and the latest iphone decision to
> remove an open standard (audio jack) in favor of a closed standard (Apple
> charging port with proprietary audio jack adapter).
>
> People that go Apple are deciding that paying a premium for equivalent
> hardware is worth it for whatever benefits they believe they get out of it
> (ex, better UX design?). With Apple it's not as bad though because they at
> least try to make things easier for the consumer.
>
> The good news is I think software updates to an i70 are much less
> important than updates to a chartplotter. Wind algorithms don't change that
> often, and I'm basically happy with the UI. Charts and charting UI do
> change often. My three Android devices cost less than a Raymarine MFD and
> provide triple redundancy.
>
> -Patrick
> S/V Violet Hour, Seattle, WA
> C&C LF38
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:00 AM,  wrote:
>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Dave S 
>> To: "C&c Stus List" 
>> Cc:
>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 11:47:59 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
>> Joel,
>>
>> That's pretty much the nut of it, there is not the same critical mass or
>> informed user base as with  mainstream mobile computing, (and this IS
>> mobile computing) and today, the tradeoff exists between the benefits (many
>> contrived) of single-brand solutions, and the benefits of a more open
>> approach.  Still, they have to strategize about their new competition - a
>> $50, full featured chartplotter,   (yes, in a relatively fragile device) on
>> technologies with very short (relatively) life cycles and blistering
>> innovation rates.   Amazing really.
>>
>> I dealt with the fragility issues by buying a lifeproof case and RAM
>> mount.  Pretty rugged stuff, and fine for my application - summer sailing
>> on Lake Ontario.
>>
>> I differ a bit on the software upgrade opinion - as with cars this could
>> be a safety and liability issue for the manufacturers.   If they make it
>> unreasonably difficult, they have a problem.  something else for them to
>> grapple with.
>>
>> Other than chartplotters, tablet based Apps are thin on the ground so
>> far, partly because of the small market, partly the "closed shop" of the
>> major players, and - somewhat related- partly because "open" wireless N2K
>> is in its infancy, though this is changing.  The next few years will be
>> interesting!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and

[Daniel Sheer via CnC-List]

When I bought Pegathy, I bought the cheapest Garmin chartplotter. Once you've 
sailed with a chartplotter, you never want to be without. I also have Marine 
Navigator on my smartphone and both the Garmin app (accesses the Active Captain 
data base, a pretty useful piece) and Open GL navigator, both on the boat 
laptop. The next year, I bought the Garmin 10 and mast top and depth finder 
package and added them - same manufacturer, no problem. Changing settings is a 
non-issue, along with updates. The Garmin products work. There are many things 
about them I'm not particularly fond of - one is that the operation is NOT 
intuitive - but they work. The only thing that's failed is the depth transducer 
- an AirMar.

Two years later I bought a Lowrance VHF with AIS on NMEA 2000. The Lowrance 
needs the gps signal from the chartplotter. The original wouldn't read the 
network. Nor would the second. But, they sent a third, and it just plugged in 
and worked, sending AIS target locations to the chartplotter - a wonderful 
thing when sailing at night on the Chesapeake. So, at least some 
interoperability in the NMEA 2000 world works.

When I replace Walter, my Autohelm 3000, I'll likely go Garmin so I can be sure 
it will work. I will do my damndest to ensure that the Garmin Autohelm will 
talk to a tablet. I don't know what I'll do if it won't. Probably find another 
brand that will. I expect that when the Garmin chartplotter goes, or I decide I 
really, really need a bigger screen, I'll go with a tablet mounted at the helm. 
I expect that by that time the standard will work well across all sensors - 
including driver updates. 

Dem's my 2 cents.
Dan SheerPegathy, LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco



  From: "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com" 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:49 AM
 Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 128, Issue 86
   
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re:  Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and (Dave S)
  2. Re:  Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot
      business (Dreuge)
  3. Re:  Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and (David)
  4. Re:  Repainting Waterline Stripe... (Dave Godwin)
  5. Re:  Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and autopilot
      business! (RANDY)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:17:18 -0400
From: Dave S 
To: "C&c Stus List" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Pete - patience man, I'm a 53 year old luddite!

The realization of how all this "fits" is just dawning on me, and many of
the writings I have read on the subject are now making much more sense.
Thanks for the Garmin info, they too have an n2k updater it seems.  They
don't promote these aggressively , but at least they are available.

For the record, the raymarine guys I was connected with were really
helpful, but the situation is what it is. Also for the record, I have zero
brand loyalty/axe to grind for/with anyone.

Had I known then what I know now, I'd have (dispassionately) chosen another
brand.(s)    I do think it is something important to consider when
weighting options today.

Dave



PDate: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:58:42 + (UTC)
From: Pete Shelquist 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com,  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
        autopilot business!
Message-ID:
        

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You raymarine guys kill me. ?Defend it to the end and drag others down when
it's obvious that Ray falls short. I've been saying it for years: friends
don't let friends buy raymarine.?
Dave/others; Per Garmin FAQ, Here's the solution if/when you decide to
leave the raymarine dark side :
"The easiest way to update the device is to purchase a NMEA 2000 Network
Updater and attach it to the NMEA 2000 network that the device is connected
to. The updater will add an SD card slot to the NMEA 2000 network which
will allow and update to be sent to the device. A blank SD card with at
least 300MB up to 2GB of space is also required.
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Message: 2
Date: T

Stus-List (no subject)

[Dave via CnC-List]

Graham/all - to be clear, to me the issue is not so much being able to update 
one Manufacturer's firmware from another's device, it's about not being able to 
update it at all, without a MFD  (hence the 'accessories to MFD subject line'). 
 Raymarine could easily have elected to permit updates by some other means at 
the network level or at the device, but didn't.  

Read the manual before buying?  Just dug them out and here's  what it says in 
my pristine p70 autopilot controller manual:

'- software revision
Raymarine regularly updates product software to add new features and improve 
existing functionality.  This document covers lighthouse version 3.xx which 
should be used in conjunction with ev... Blah blah 
Check the raymarine website to ensure you have the latest software and user 
manuals.'

That's all it says, and I'm a bit surprised.  They address that software 
updates  are part of ownership, and (rightly) offer and encourage the happy new 
autopilot purchaser to update their software, even helpfully directing them to 
the website.(Sounds great, here's my money!). One minor detail seems to 
have been omitted...  

It been an interesting topic to explore, with interesting perspectives.   I'll  
figure out a way to sort it.   I like the raymarine instruments and their 
people were accessible and courteous.  The more I dig into it though, the more 
convinced I am that their approach to this is unethical, irrespective of how 
one might feel about their broader strategy.   (The manual ices it.). Anyway, 
now we know, as will others who read the discussion. 

I didn't hate them, but I'm starting to.

Mic drop... ;-)

Dave



> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 00:02:16 +
> From: G Collins 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine exits the instrument, vhf and
>autopilot business!
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> You Ray haters kill me...   just kidding!  But sometimes it pays to read 
> the manual before you buy, and they are all available online these days.
> 
> That Garmin thing is a cool solution, I like it.  The Navico (B&G) 
> version doesn't seem to be available anywhere, so that may have been a 
> possible route to firmware updates but no longer...
> 
> I guess my conclusion early on was to get a MDF that goes with the big 
> electronics on the boat, so my a75 MDF can update my EV200 autopilot.  
> And IMHO it makes sense to have the same brand of anyway, so that you 
> are sure they will work together as best they can.  My wind/speed/depth 
> system, since it is B&G, is essentially orphaned.  I'm not so concerned 
> with that.  And I am quite happy with my Raymarine gear, whereas I've 
> had two Triton displays malfunction on me in the same 3 seasons.
> 
> As to why you can't update one companies gear from another companies 
> MDF, I can't see any company signing up for that - say I update my B&G 
> firmware over my Ray MDF, and next thing my Triton displays are bricks - 
> who do I call to get it resolved? That would not be a fun day.
> 
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
> 
>> 

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