Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[Don Newman via CnC-List]

Ed
I highly recommend installing an access hatch on the fourth side. It will save 
your bacon some day when you need access to the alternator. My water pump 
impeller is on the same side and adding that hatch eliminated impeller rage. 


Don Newman
C&C 44
905 547 1750

> On Mar 1, 2015, at 13:21, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Listers,
> 
> As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery 
> configuration. 
> 
> On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only side 
> without access is the side with the starter and the alternator. 
> 
> From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the 
> starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best 
> practice is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a new 
> wire from the alternator output to the house bank. 
> 
> This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which is 
> a little out of my comfort zone given the access. 
> 
> I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo charger 
> (planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The charge 
> from the alternator would go to the starting battery and then, through the 
> ACR, charge the house bank. 
> 
> The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways. 
> 
> My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up (Trojan 
> flooded). 
> 
> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest 
> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why. 
> 
> So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is or 
> do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if the 
> latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises? 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> ---
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> NCC-1701-B
> C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
> www.StarshipSailing.com
> ---
> 914.332.4400  | Office
> 914.774.9767  | Mobile
> ---
> Sent via iPhone 6
> iPhone. iTypos. iApologize
> ___
> 
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Stus-List Auto helm and Raymarine

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

I'm trying to understand the whole auto helm thing and what works with what. 
1985 C&C 33 with auto helm 4000, and Loran, obviously a problem. Purchased 
Raymarine I50/I60 instrument package and A95 chartplotter (not delivered yet) 
Spoke to a RayMarine rep at Toronto Boat Show who thought there wouldn't be any 
issue hooking up and functioning, and the dealer I purchased from spoke to 
Raymarine rep who said not likely, have to replace auto helm as its too old 
(different language) I have no idea how old the autohelm is. Is it "Autohelm" 
then "Raytheon" then "Raymarine" What is "seatalk" and does that play into the 
language issue? Anyone have any experience with all this? It's all new to me.
Thanks
Brad
C&C 33 MK II

Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
from my iPad!
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Re: Stus-List Auto helm and Raymarine

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You need to figure out what language each component is speaking.  Most
likely you will have NMEA 0183, NMEA2000 (N2K), and possibly 1 or 2
variants of Seatalk.

There is a reasonable chance that all of your components have the ability
to use NMEA 0183.  You may have some "special" features limited by not
using a proprietary language like Seatalk but the autohelm would work.

Seatalk is nice cause it works and looks similar to ethernet.

N2K is nice cause it has the universalness of NMEA 0183 but with expanded
functionality and a simpler "backbone" connection infrastructure.

Figure out what you have and then you can see if they'll talk to one
another.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 2, 2015 10:19 AM, "Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to understand the whole auto helm thing and what works with
> what. 1985 C&C 33 with auto helm 4000, and Loran, obviously a problem.
> Purchased Raymarine I50/I60 instrument package and A95 chartplotter (not
> delivered yet) Spoke to a RayMarine rep at Toronto Boat Show who thought
> there wouldn't be any issue hooking up and functioning, and the dealer I
> purchased from spoke to Raymarine rep who said not likely, have to replace
> auto helm as its too old (different language) I have no idea how old the
> autohelm is. Is it "Autohelm" then "Raytheon" then "Raymarine" What is
> "seatalk" and does that play into the language issue? Anyone have any
> experience with all this? It's all new to me.
> Thanks
> Brad
> C&C 33 MK II
>
> Sent, miraculously through cyberspace,
> from my iPad!
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
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Re: Stus-List Auto helm and Raymarine

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Brad.  In a previous life, I was a certified Raymarine dealer/installer and 
ABYC/NMEA-certified in marine electrical and electronics, so maybe I can help 
out.

First off, yes, it was Autohelm, then Raytheon, then Raymarine; and Raymarine 
went through several ownership iterations since, now being owned by FLIR.

Because you’ve got the Autohelm autopilot, you won’t be able to control the 
pilot from the a95 (I’m assuming you meant little “a”, not big “A”, as that’s a 
different and older Raymarine series of MFDs); nor will you be able to 
integrate it into the instruments.  They will need to be interface via 
SeaTalkNG.

If you had a newer Raymarine wheelpilot like the ST4000, ST4000+ or newer, you 
could interface it with the MFD and the instruments; but you would need the 
SeaTalkNG to SeaTalk 1 converter kit to get everything to talk.

Email me off the list if I can help you further.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Mar 2, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List 
 wrote:

> I'm trying to understand the whole auto helm thing and what works with what. 
> 1985 C&C 33 with auto helm 4000, and Loran, obviously a problem. Purchased 
> Raymarine I50/I60 instrument package and A95 chartplotter (not delivered yet) 
> Spoke to a RayMarine rep at Toronto Boat Show who thought there wouldn't be 
> any issue hooking up and functioning, and the dealer I purchased from spoke 
> to Raymarine rep who said not likely, have to replace auto helm as its too 
> old (different language) I have no idea how old the autohelm is. Is it 
> "Autohelm" then "Raytheon" then "Raymarine" What is "seatalk" and does that 
> play into the language issue? Anyone have any experience with all this? It's 
> all new to me.
> Thanks
> Brad
> C&C 33 MK II
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Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[John Kirkman via CnC-List]

Complex systems that are not fully understood may not be something one should 
use, or more especially, be dependent on.

“. . . you need access to the alternator. My water pump impeller . . .”

Ships batteries and the engine may be where fate is seeking adventure, so 
Newman’s advice is outstanding IMHO.

John Kirkman

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Newman 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 8:17 AM
To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

 

Ed

I highly recommend installing an access hatch on the fourth side. It will save 
your bacon some day when you need access to the alternator. My water pump 
impeller is on the same side and adding that hatch eliminated impeller rage. 

 


Don Newman

C&C 44

905 547 1750


On Mar 1, 2015, at 13:21, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:

Listers,

 

As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery 
configuration. 

 

On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only side 
without access is the side with the starter and the alternator. 

 

>From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the 
>starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best practice 
>is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a new wire from 
>the alternator output to the house bank. 

 

This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which is a 
little out of my comfort zone given the access. 

 

I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo charger 
(planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The charge from 
the alternator would go to the starting battery and then, through the ACR, 
charge the house bank. 

 

The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways. 

 

My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up (Trojan 
flooded). 

 

I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest bank, 
but can't find any explanation as to why. 

 

So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is or 
do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if the 
latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises? 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

---

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

NCC-1701-B

C&C 37+ | City Island, NY

www.StarshipSailing.com

---

914.332.4400  | Office

914.774.9767  | Mobile

---

Sent via iPhone 6

iPhone. iTypos. iApologize

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Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

Don:  Any chance of a picture of the access hatch you installed in you 44?

Fred Hazzard
C&C 44
Portland, Or

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Don Newman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ed
> I highly recommend installing an access hatch on the fourth side. It will
> save your bacon some day when you need access to the alternator. My water
> pump impeller is on the same side and adding that hatch eliminated impeller
> rage.
>
>
> Don Newman
> C&C 44
> 905 547 1750
>
> On Mar 1, 2015, at 13:21, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery
> configuration.
>
> On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only
> side without access is the side with the starter and the alternator.
>
> From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the
> starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best
> practice is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a
> new wire from the alternator output to the house bank.
>
> This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which
> is a little out of my comfort zone given the access.
>
> I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo
> charger (planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The
> charge from the alternator would go to the starting battery and then,
> through the ACR, charge the house bank.
>
> The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways.
>
> My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up
> (Trojan flooded).
>
> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest
> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why.
>
> So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is
> or do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if
> the latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises?
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
> ---
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> NCC-1701-B
> C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
> www.StarshipSailing.com
> ---
> 914.332.4400  | Office
> 914.774.9767  | Mobile
> ---
> Sent via iPhone 6
> iPhone. iTypos. iApologize
>
> ___
>
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>
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Stus-List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[PME via CnC-List]

Hi,


I will be stepping my mast within the next week or two.  One of the folks at my 
marina asked if I was going to slather the bottom of the mast with Dolfinite.  
I have never heard of this stuff before.   I looked into it and it looks 
reasonable.  What do other apply or use when stepping their mast?   I already 
have the silver dollar I found under the mast back in place


Thanks for any insight. 



-
Paul Eugenio
1981 C&C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL



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Re: Stus-List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

I don't see why you would want to bed the base of the mast. I think letting
any water which gets inside the mast into the bilge is best. Maybe to
reduce corrosion ...

Ed

Prime Interest
1982 Landfall 38
On Mar 2, 2015 11:55 AM, "PME via CnC-List"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> I will be stepping my mast within the next week or two.  One of the folks
> at my marina asked if I was going to slather the bottom of the mast with
> Dolfinite.  I have never heard of this stuff before.   I looked into it and
> it looks reasonable.  What do other apply or use when stepping their mast?
>   I already have the silver dollar I found under the mast back in place
>
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
>
>
> -
> Paul Eugenio
> 1981 C&C 38 Landfall
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Access Hatch

[Alan Bergen via CnC-List]

I cut an access hatch in the quarter berth, several years ago, to make it 
easier to get to the oil dipstick and secondary filter. It was especially 
handy, last week when I had to replace the mixing elbow. 

Alan Bergen 
35 Mk III Thirsty 
Rose City YC 
Portland, OR 
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Re: Stus-List Auto helm and Raymarine

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

Well that's pretty clear.  You Raymarine guys got it going on.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick
G Street via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 9:48 AM
To: Bradley Lumgair; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Auto helm and Raymarine

 

Hi, Brad.  In a previous life, I was a certified Raymarine dealer/installer
and ABYC/NMEA-certified in marine electrical and electronics, so maybe I can
help out.

 

First off, yes, it was Autohelm, then Raytheon, then Raymarine; and
Raymarine went through several ownership iterations since, now being owned
by FLIR.

 

Because you've got the Autohelm autopilot, you won't be able to control the
pilot from the a95 (I'm assuming you meant little "a", not big "A", as
that's a different and older Raymarine series of MFDs); nor will you be able
to integrate it into the instruments.  They will need to be interface via
SeaTalkNG.

 

If you had a newer Raymarine wheelpilot like the ST4000, ST4000+ or newer,
you could interface it with the MFD and the instruments; but you would need
the SeaTalkNG to SeaTalk 1 converter kit to get everything to talk.

 

Email me off the list if I can help you further.

 


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Mar 2, 2015, at 9:18 AM, Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List
 wrote:





I'm trying to understand the whole auto helm thing and what works with what.
1985 C&C 33 with auto helm 4000, and Loran, obviously a problem. Purchased
Raymarine I50/I60 instrument package and A95 chartplotter (not delivered
yet) Spoke to a RayMarine rep at Toronto Boat Show who thought there
wouldn't be any issue hooking up and functioning, and the dealer I purchased
from spoke to Raymarine rep who said not likely, have to replace auto helm
as its too old (different language) I have no idea how old the autohelm is.
Is it "Autohelm" then "Raytheon" then "Raymarine" What is "seatalk" and does
that play into the language issue? Anyone have any experience with all this?
It's all new to me.
Thanks
Brad
C&C 33 MK II

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Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[PME via CnC-List]

> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest 
> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why. 

Hi Edd, 

Here is my understanding.  The ACR will combine a second battery while there is 
a voltage present on the first battery.  The alternator's voltage regulator  
will shut off the charging when the first battery is full.  The second battery 
may still need some charging.   Therefore it is better to have the alternator 
charge  the battery which is being drained the most, i.e. the house battery.

On the same note, most starters draw about 150Amps for less than 10 seconds.  
This amounts to 150A*10s*1hr/3600s = 0.4 A*hr which  should be restored within 
a minute of charging.  


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL




> On Mar 2, 2015, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 13:21:04 -0500
> From: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Alternator Output Question
> Message-ID: <5a4d6fa4-5e07-41c8-8468-ab498e809...@schillay.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Listers,
> 
> As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery 
> configuration. 
> 
> On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only side 
> without access is the side with the starter and the alternator. 
> 
> From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the 
> starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best 
> practice is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a new 
> wire from the alternator output to the house bank. 
> 
> This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which is 
> a little out of my comfort zone given the access. 
> 
> I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo charger 
> (planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The charge 
> from the alternator would go to the starting battery and then, through the 
> ACR, charge the house bank. 
> 
> The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways. 
> 
> My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up (Trojan 
> flooded). 
> 
> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest 
> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why. 
> 
> So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is or 
> do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if the 
> latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises? 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd

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Re: Stus-List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Interesting. Not familiar with Dolfinite. Would TefGel work here?

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 2, 2015, at 10:21 AM, ed vanderkruk via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't see why you would want to bed the base of the mast. I think letting 
> any water which gets inside the mast into the bilge is best. Maybe to reduce 
> corrosion ... 
> 
> Ed
> 
> Prime Interest
> 1982 Landfall 38
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2015 11:55 AM, "PME via CnC-List"  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> I will be stepping my mast within the next week or two.  One of the folks at 
>> my marina asked if I was going to slather the bottom of the mast with 
>> Dolfinite.  I have never heard of this stuff before.   I looked into it and 
>> it looks reasonable.  What do other apply or use when stepping their mast?   
>> I already have the silver dollar I found under the mast back in place
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for any insight. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Paul Eugenio
>> 1981 C&C 38 Landfall
>> S/V Johanna Rose
>> Carrabelle, FL
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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> 
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Stus-List List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[robert via CnC-List]

Paul:

Quite honestly, I have never seen a mast bonded to the mast step, 
whether 'keel stepped' or 'deck stepped'.  If the mast bottom is 
'bonded', what happens to the water that undoubtedly makes its way down 
the inside of the mast?


I'm with Ed on this one.why would you even consider applying an 
'adhesive' to the bottom of the mast?  I have stepped masts, my own and 
others, and have never seen the need to bond the bottom of the mast.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 1984
Halifax, N.S.


On 2015-03-02 1:21 PM, ed vanderkruk via CnC-List wrote:


I don't see why you would want to bed the base of the mast. I think 
letting any water which gets inside the mast into the bilge is best. 
Maybe to reduce corrosion ...


Ed

Prime Interest
1982 Landfall 38

On Mar 2, 2015 11:55 AM, "PME via CnC-List" > wrote:


Hi,


I will be stepping my mast within the next week or two.  One of
the folks at my marina asked if I was going to slather the bottom
of the mast with Dolfinite.  I have never heard of this stuff
before.   I looked into it and it looks reasonable.  What do other
apply or use when stepping their mast?   I already have the silver
dollar I found under the mast back in place


Thanks for any insight.



-
Paul Eugenio
1981 C&C 38 Landfall
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL




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Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Paul,

I guess that’s where I’m confused. When the alternator throws out 14+ 
volts, the ACR combines the batteries so they all get the charge. They become, 
essentially, one big battery. Therefore the regulator won’t stop the charging 
until everything is a full capacity, right? 

I’ve never seen my alternator kick out less than 13 volts. When the 
engine is running, the ACR will always be in combination mode. 

So, why the “best practice” to run the alternator output to the house 
bank when the ACR will combine them anyway? 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> On Mar 2, 2015, at 1:25 PM, PME  wrote:
> 
>> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest 
>> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why. 
> 
> Hi Edd, 
> 
> Here is my understanding.  The ACR will combine a second battery while there 
> is a voltage present on the first battery.  The alternator's voltage 
> regulator  will shut off the charging when the first battery is full.  The 
> second battery may still need some charging.   Therefore it is better to have 
> the alternator charge  the battery which is being drained the most, i.e. the 
> house battery.
> 
> On the same note, most starters draw about 150Amps for less than 10 seconds.  
> This amounts to 150A*10s*1hr/3600s = 0.4 A*hr which  should be restored 
> within a minute of charging.  
> 
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C&C Landfall 38
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Carrabelle, FL
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2015, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 13:21:04 -0500
>> From: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
>> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
>> Subject: Stus-List Alternator Output Question
>> Message-ID: <5a4d6fa4-5e07-41c8-8468-ab498e809...@schillay.com 
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Listers,
>> 
>> As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery 
>> configuration. 
>> 
>> On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only side 
>> without access is the side with the starter and the alternator. 
>> 
>> From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the 
>> starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best 
>> practice is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a 
>> new wire from the alternator output to the house bank. 
>> 
>> This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which is 
>> a little out of my comfort zone given the access. 
>> 
>> I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo 
>> charger (planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The 
>> charge from the alternator would go to the starting battery and then, 
>> through the ACR, charge the house bank. 
>> 
>> The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways. 
>> 
>> My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up (Trojan 
>> flooded). 
>> 
>> I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest 
>> bank, but can't find any explanation as to why. 
>> 
>> So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is 
>> or do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if 
>> the latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises? 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
> 

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Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The idea is that the house bank will need about 95% of the charging. The engine 
start battery will usually be very close to full unless you have issues with 
the engine. Therefore you are running the most current straight to the house 
bank and only taking minor charging current through the ACR.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 2:20 PM
To: C&C List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Alternator Output Question

Paul,

I guess that’s where I’m confused. When the alternator throws out 
14+ volts, the ACR combines the batteries so they all get the charge. They 
become, essentially, one big battery. Therefore the regulator won’t stop the 
charging until everything is a full capacity, right?

I’ve never seen my alternator kick out less than 13 volts. When the 
engine is running, the ACR will always be in combination mode.

So, why the “best practice” to run the alternator output to the 
house bank when the ACR will combine them anyway?


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log

On Mar 2, 2015, at 1:25 PM, PME mailto:dre...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest bank, 
but can't find any explanation as to why.

Hi Edd,

Here is my understanding.  The ACR will combine a second battery while there is 
a voltage present on the first battery.  The alternator's voltage regulator  
will shut off the charging when the first battery is full.  The second battery 
may still need some charging.   Therefore it is better to have the alternator 
charge  the battery which is being drained the most, i.e. the house battery.

On the same note, most starters draw about 150Amps for less than 10 seconds.  
This amounts to 150A*10s*1hr/3600s = 0.4 A*hr which  should be restored within 
a minute of charging.


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL




On Mar 2, 2015, at 12:00 PM, 
cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 13:21:04 -0500
From: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Alternator Output Question
Message-ID: 
<5a4d6fa4-5e07-41c8-8468-ab498e809...@schillay.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Listers,

As you know, I'm planning a rewire to a house and starting battery 
configuration.

On the C&C 37+, I have access to three sides of the engine -- the only side 
without access is the side with the starter and the alternator.

From the diagrams I can find, the alternator output is connected to the 
starter, which then runs back to the batteries. I understand the best practice 
is to disconnect that wire (as well as the Orange one) and run a new wire from 
the alternator output to the house bank.

This would mean removing, rewiring, and reattaching the alternator, which is a 
little out of my comfort zone given the access.

I recently read on a forum that if you have an ACR instead of an Echo charger 
(planning to have an ACR), then you can leave the setup as is. The charge from 
the alternator would go to the starting battery and then, through the ACR, 
charge the house bank.

The ACR auto senses from each side and works both ways.

My starter battery and house bank will be the same chemical make-up (Trojan 
flooded).

I've read that it's a "best practice" to run the charging to the biggest bank, 
but can't find any explanation as to why.

So, the question is, with the ACR, can I leave the alternator output as is or 
do I really need to do some "engine surgery" to run a new cable? And if the 
latter, why can't the system work the way that the ACR advertises?


All the best,

Edd


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Re: Stus-List List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[PME via CnC-List]

Rob:

The idea was to coat the bottom of outer and inner mast shell for added 
corrosion protection, not to bond or pot the mast into the step.  It was 
explained to me that “everyone” does it, but from the responses so far, it 
seems not to be true.   


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL




> On Mar 2, 2015, at 3:09 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:06:12 -0400
> From: robert mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Stus-List List stepping mast 38 Landfall
> Message-ID: <54f4b4a4.2090...@eastlink.ca 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Paul:
> 
> Quite honestly, I have never seen a mast bonded to the mast step, 
> whether 'keel stepped' or 'deck stepped'.  If the mast bottom is 
> 'bonded', what happens to the water that undoubtedly makes its way down 
> the inside of the mast?
> 
> I'm with Ed on this one.why would you even consider applying an 
> 'adhesive' to the bottom of the mast?  I have stepped masts, my own and 
> others, and have never seen the need to bond the bottom of the mast.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 1984
> Halifax, N.S.

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Re: Stus-List stepping mast 38 Landfall

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

When I rebuilt my rig I made sure that there were a couple of 1/4" half 
moons bored into the aft edges of the mast, to allow water to drain.  
The rigger thought I was crazy.  I also insisted that the new mast step 
have holes drilled to allow water to drain to the bilge.  The rigger 
thought I was crazy.


He said 'how was it done before' and I said that the mast step was 
cracked and water went everywhere.  That shut him up.


14 years later everything is cool.  I've pulled the rig once since then, 
and it was as perfect as when I put it together.


Forty years ago, when I was broke, I bought a used toilet from a retired 
70 year old plumber who had an entire back yard full of old porcelain 
stuff.  I was going to install it in my cabin in the mountains.  He said 
'remember, sh__t runs downhill.'


That works for water in the boat, too.

Wal

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Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

[Peter Fell via CnC-List]

An update

The seller posted up a price ... $400 !!! I discussed it with him, armed with 
the info provided via this forum (especially Dennis ... thanks) and offered 
$150. He had a mild heart attack and went away ... came back later at $200. I 
went to look at the boom vang and it was missing the 3 “external” blocks + one 
of the sheaves was broken on the vang itself (not exactly the “excellent” 
condition that was described in the ad!)  The seller swore up and down that 
there never were any blocks with it and that he had paid $1200 for it in 2005 
and that it wasn’t a Garhauer. Well it definitely is an older model RV20-1 
model. 2-inch diameter tube and the length (uncompressed) is the same as the 
length of my current (soft) vang. I think there is a good possibility that the 
boom plate would fit my boom ... not so sure on the mast plate since the C&C 30 
mast is wider and the 27 has the sail groove that stands proud from the mast. 
However I had checked with Garhauer who said: 1) shouldn’t be any problems with 
spring tension between a 27 and a 30’'; and 2) new mast and boom plates would 
be $80 (US) or $40 each ... if only one is needed.  Regardless  I walked 
away, considering the missing blocks and broken sheave.

Well today the seller phoned me back ... he’s found the blocks and put the boom 
vang up for consignment at a local store. Not sure what they are asking at this 
point.

Question I have is after checking this thing out it seems to me to be probably 
1 size larger than what is really needed and would work best for the C&C 27.  
Just checking out the differences between 27 booms and 30 booms in the marina 
... the 30’s boom is much larger. The RV20-1 is meant for 28 – 44ft boat (as is 
the current RV20-1 SL model). I’m thinking a RV6 (aluminum, up to 32ft boat) or 
RV18-1 (28-36ft boat with a tube diameter 1-3/4") would be a better fit. So I 
think I’ve effectively talked myself out of this particular unit.

Anyone out there with a C&C 27 recall what model they are using? Any experience 
with the aluminum vs. the stainless versions? By the way, Garhauer has a 10% 
off sale right now till the end of March ... softens the blow a wee bit!

Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
Cygnet
C&C 27 MkIII


From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:44 AM
To: Peter Fell ; CnClist 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

I sell lots of used boat stuff on eBay.  I find 25-30% of new is common for 
marine items in very good condition.  Items in excellent to new condition might 
fetch 50%+ of new. 

Remember to make a $$ adjustment for the brackets.  You may need to have 
Garhauer make you new brackets.  That shouldn't cost much.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Peter Fell via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Thanks ... current model pricing is $495 (US), I highly doubt that would 
apply to a 10+ year old boom vang. Hard to determine a used value  not 
something that comes up for sale very often as far as I can see so that’s why 
I’m asking.

  From: RAYMOND SHIBE 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 10:40 AM
  To: Peter Fell 
  Subject: RE: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

  Call Garhauer or go on their website for pricing.


  On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 04:56 AM, Peter Fell via CnC-List wrote:


I’m talking to a fellow here that has a Garhauer rigid vang for sale, from 
a C&C 30. Matching it up to info online I think it’s a RV20-1 ... an older 
model, not the current one.

I’m trying to get more specifics on this actual unit, but I’ve seen 
references online dated 2002 and 2006, so it’s at least in that age range.

I realize there may have to be some mods to adapt the boom and mast tangs 
to the 27’s mast.

Anyone got any clue what the boom vang might be worth?

Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
Cygnet
C&C 27 MkIII




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Stus-List mast step drainage

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

FWIW, Our OEM mast step is made of 1/2" thick aluminum plate with 4" high sides 
of the same material all welded together to form a box. The mast sits forward 
in this box and wooden wedges fill the box to lock the position. Originally the 
step had only one 1/2" drain hole in the middle and it was clogged and the 
wooden wedges always looked wet. While the mast was out of the boat I drilled a 
couple 3/8" holes through the bottom of the step and carved the middle out of 
the bottom edge of all the wedges so water can drain better into the bilge. One 
hole is inside the mast oval. It seems to work better as the wooden wedges stay 
dry now. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Wally Bryant via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 5:12:14 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List stepping mast 38 Landfall 

When I rebuilt my rig I made sure that there were a couple of 1/4" half 
moons bored into the aft edges of the mast, to allow water to drain. 
The rigger thought I was crazy. I also insisted that the new mast step 
have holes drilled to allow water to drain to the bilge. The rigger 
thought I was crazy. 

He said 'how was it done before' and I said that the mast step was 
cracked and water went everywhere. That shut him up. 

14 years later everything is cool. I've pulled the rig once since then, 
and it was as perfect as when I put it together. 

Forty years ago, when I was broke, I bought a used toilet from a retired 
70 year old plumber who had an entire back yard full of old porcelain 
stuff. I was going to install it in my cabin in the mountains. He said 
'remember, sh__t runs downhill.' 

That works for water in the boat, too. 

Wal 

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine EV-100 C&C 38

[Joseph Scott via CnC-List]

Thanks to everyone. With all this in mind I think ill be holding off on the 
autopilot for a bit.  The under deck units are much more expensive and seem 
like much more involved to install.  With this going to be our first full 
season with the new boat there are many other things that will take priority 
over the autopilot.  More questions from me will follow:)

Thanks all

Joe

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 28, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Graham Collins  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Joe
> Depends on what you want to use it for, I would doubt the EV-100 would 
> suffice in any strong weather conditions, you would be at the upper limit of 
> its capabilities.  The EV-200 would be a better fit.
> 
> The other consideration is integration with whatever other electronics you 
> have or are contemplating.  I've got an EV-200 and an A7 plotter, they play 
> nicely together and allow me to do the software updates to the system 
> (usually requires a same brand plotter).  If I had a Garmin plotter some 
> things would not work together.
> 
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
> 
>> On 2015-02-28 9:45 PM, Joe Scott via CnC-List wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have been reading stuff on here for a while but this is my first email.  
>> We got our 1976 C&C 38 at the end of last summer and have been looking for 
>> (among a bunch of other stuff:) an Autopilot.  Anyone have any experience 
>> with the Ev-100 on a boat this size?  From the specs I’d say its close to 
>> being not enough.  If it’s not enough, anyone have a recommendation?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Joe Scott
>> 1976 C&C 38
>> Ashtabula Oh
>> ___
>> 
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>> of page at:
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> 

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Re: Stus-List Raymarine EV-100 C&C 38

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Wise decision.
On Mar 2, 2015 9:08 PM, "Joseph Scott via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Thanks to everyone. With all this in mind I think ill be holding off on
> the autopilot for a bit.  The under deck units are much more expensive and
> seem like much more involved to install.  With this going to be our first
> full season with the new boat there are many other things that will take
> priority over the autopilot.  More questions from me will follow:)
>
> Thanks all
>
> Joe
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 28, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Graham Collins 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Joe
> > Depends on what you want to use it for, I would doubt the EV-100 would
> suffice in any strong weather conditions, you would be at the upper limit
> of its capabilities.  The EV-200 would be a better fit.
> >
> > The other consideration is integration with whatever other electronics
> you have or are contemplating.  I've got an EV-200 and an A7 plotter, they
> play nicely together and allow me to do the software updates to the system
> (usually requires a same brand plotter).  If I had a Garmin plotter some
> things would not work together.
> >
> > Graham Collins
> > Secret Plans
> > C&C 35-III #11
> >
> >> On 2015-02-28 9:45 PM, Joe Scott via CnC-List wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I have been reading stuff on here for a while but this is my first
> email.  We got our 1976 C&C 38 at the end of last summer and have been
> looking for (among a bunch of other stuff:) an Autopilot.  Anyone have any
> experience with the Ev-100 on a boat this size?  From the specs I'd say its
> close to being not enough.  If it's not enough, anyone have a
> recommendation?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Joe Scott
> >> 1976 C&C 38
> >> Ashtabula Oh
> >> ___
> >>
> >> Email address:
> >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> >> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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> >
>
> ___
>
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>
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Stus-List Autohelm and raymarine

[Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List]

Well I was over to see the boat today, brought the Autohelm 4000 control box 
home with me. Appears like its an original so there will be no chance of 
communication going on between it and the new stuff. :(( no trace of anything 
other than "Autohelm4000" and made in England so it's got to be as old as dirt! 

Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
from my iPad!
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Re: Stus-List Autohelm and raymarine

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Bradley,

Wouldn't you know it, I have one of those at my boat. Pre-Raytheon 
days. I'm not sure mine even works anymore.


I say "at my boat" because I took it off during a boat work period 
some time ago and never got around to reinstalling. So I believe 
you're on the right path to use the boat for a couple of season 
before committing to an autopilot upgrade.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 07:15 PM 02/03/2015, you wrote:
Well I was over to see the boat today, brought the Autohelm 4000 
control box home with me. Appears like its an original so there will 
be no chance of communication going on between it and the new stuff. 
:(( no trace of anything other than "Autohelm4000" and made in 
England so it's got to be as old as dirt!


Sent, miraculously through cyberspace,
from my iPad!
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Re: Stus-List Autohelm and raymarine

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Bradley- My two bits for what it is worth- I would put money into an 
autopilot before many of the systems on my boat. In fact, I just bought a new 
one (Raymarine wheel pilot) because the old one was becoming unreliable and I 
want to know it will work when I need it.   I sail short handed or single 
handed most of the time, and I use the autopilot all the time.  I did not think 
it was a big deal before I bought my first boat, but it has turned out to be 
really useful.  If I need to adjust something, I like being able to set the 
autopilot so I can be distracted from steering for a few minutes.  My wife 
loves it because she doesn’t have to steer when I need to do something.  I had 
a hydraulic on my last boat and it was great.  The wheel pilot is not nearly as 
nice to use, but a whole lot cheaper.Each time you activate a wheel pilot 
you have to move the lever to lock it on and then push the set button. Two 
things in two different places.  Reverse to deactivate.  The hydraulic you just 
push the control button to activate/deactivate.  Doesn’t seem like much, but 
the difference for me is having to think about it for the wheel pilot and just 
doing it at any time on the hydraulic.  And then there are the large number of 
times that when things get hectic, I deactivate the control box but forget to 
unlock the lever and have to take a second to figure out why the wheel is 
locked. Or activate the control box and forget to lock the wheel pilot.   
Unfortunately, no one seemed to think they could fit a hydraulic in the space 
available on my current boat.  Dave
  
On Mar 2, 2015, at 10:15 PM, Bradley Lumgair via CnC-List 
 wrote:

> Well I was over to see the boat today, brought the Autohelm 4000 control box 
> home with me. Appears like its an original so there will be no chance of 
> communication going on between it and the new stuff. :(( no trace of anything 
> other than "Autohelm4000" and made in England so it's got to be as old as 
> dirt! 
> 
> Sent, miraculously through cyberspace, 
> from my iPad!
> ___
> 
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> 

Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Just go with the appropriate new Garhauer.

-Original Message-
From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List" 
Sent: ‎2015-‎03-‎02 7:24 PM
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

An update
 
The seller posted up a price ... $400 !!! I discussed it with him, armed with 
the info provided via this forum (especially Dennis ... thanks) and offered 
$150. He had a mild heart attack and went away ... came back later at $200. I 
went to look at the boom vang and it was missing the 3 “external” blocks + one 
of the sheaves was broken on the vang itself (not exactly the “excellent” 
condition that was described in the ad!)  The seller swore up and down that 
there never were any blocks with it and that he had paid $1200 for it in 2005 
and that it wasn’t a Garhauer. Well it definitely is an older model RV20-1 
model. 2-inch diameter tube and the length (uncompressed) is the same as the 
length of my current (soft) vang. I think there is a good possibility that the 
boom plate would fit my boom ... not so sure on the mast plate since the C&C 30 
mast is wider and the 27 has the sail groove that stands proud from the mast. 
However I had checked with Garhauer who said: 1) shouldn’t be any problems with 
spring tension between a 27 and a 30’'; and 2) new mast and boom plates would 
be $80 (US) or $40 each ... if only one is needed.  Regardless  I walked 
away, considering the missing blocks and broken sheave.
 
Well today the seller phoned me back ... he’s found the blocks and put the boom 
vang up for consignment at a local store. Not sure what they are asking at this 
point.
 
Question I have is after checking this thing out it seems to me to be probably 
1 size larger than what is really needed and would work best for the C&C 27.  
Just checking out the differences between 27 booms and 30 booms in the marina 
... the 30’s boom is much larger. The RV20-1 is meant for 28 – 44ft boat (as is 
the current RV20-1 SL model). I’m thinking a RV6 (aluminum, up to 32ft boat) or 
RV18-1 (28-36ft boat with a tube diameter 1-3/4") would be a better fit. So I 
think I’ve effectively talked myself out of this particular unit.
 
Anyone out there with a C&C 27 recall what model they are using? Any experience 
with the aluminum vs. the stainless versions? By the way, Garhauer has a 10% 
off sale right now till the end of March ... softens the blow a wee bit!
 
Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
Cygnet
C&C 27 MkIII
 
 
From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:44 AM
To: Peter Fell ; CnClist 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang
 
I sell lots of used boat stuff on eBay.  I find 25-30% of new is common for 
marine items in very good condition.  Items in excellent to new condition might 
fetch 50%+ of new. 
 
Remember to make a $$ adjustment for the brackets.  You may need to have 
Garhauer make you new brackets.  That shouldn't cost much.
 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
 
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Peter Fell via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Thanks ... current model pricing is $495 (US), I highly doubt that would apply 
to a 10+ year old boom vang. Hard to determine a used value  not something 
that comes up for sale very often as far as I can see so that’s why I’m asking.
 
From: RAYMOND SHIBE 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 10:40 AM
To: Peter Fell 
Subject: RE: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang
 
Call Garhauer or go on their website for pricing.


On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 04:56 AM, Peter Fell via CnC-List wrote:


I’m talking to a fellow here that has a Garhauer rigid vang for sale, from a 
C&C 30. Matching it up to info online I think it’s a RV20-1 ... an older model, 
not the current one.
 
I’m trying to get more specifics on this actual unit, but I’ve seen references 
online dated 2002 and 2006, so it’s at least in that age range.
 
I realize there may have to be some mods to adapt the boom and mast tangs to 
the 27’s mast.
 
Anyone got any clue what the boom vang might be worth?
 
Peter Fell
Sidney, BC
Cygnet
C&C 27 MkIII
 
 


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Re: Stus-List Raymarine EV-100 C&C 38

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Autopilot should be your first priority! 
It will make sailing your boat so much more fun. You won't be a slave to the 
helm and can tend to sailtrim or serving your guests. We use it to steer while 
hoisting sails or dropping sails. It's the first bit of gear I added to my 
boats. It's also something you can work on and get 100% in the cold winter we 
are having. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List"  
To: "Joseph Scott" , "C&C List" 
 
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 9:41:34 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Raymarine EV-100 C&C 38 



Wise decision. 
On Mar 2, 2015 9:08 PM, "Joseph Scott via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
wrote: 


Thanks to everyone. With all this in mind I think ill be holding off on the 
autopilot for a bit. The under deck units are much more expensive and seem like 
much more involved to install. With this going to be our first full season with 
the new boat there are many other things that will take priority over the 
autopilot. More questions from me will follow:) 

Thanks all 

Joe 

Sent from my iPad 

> On Feb 28, 2015, at 8:37 PM, Graham Collins < cnclistforw...@hotmail.com > 
> wrote: 
> 
> Hi Joe 
> Depends on what you want to use it for, I would doubt the EV-100 would 
> suffice in any strong weather conditions, you would be at the upper limit of 
> its capabilities. The EV-200 would be a better fit. 
> 
> The other consideration is integration with whatever other electronics you 
> have or are contemplating. I've got an EV-200 and an A7 plotter, they play 
> nicely together and allow me to do the software updates to the system 
> (usually requires a same brand plotter). If I had a Garmin plotter some 
> things would not work together. 
> 
> Graham Collins 
> Secret Plans 
> C&C 35-III #11 
> 
>> On 2015-02-28 9:45 PM, Joe Scott via CnC-List wrote: 
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> I have been reading stuff on here for a while but this is my first email. We 
>> got our 1976 C&C 38 at the end of last summer and have been looking for 
>> (among a bunch of other stuff:) an Autopilot. Anyone have any experience 
>> with the Ev-100 on a boat this size? From the specs I’d say its close to 
>> being not enough. If it’s not enough, anyone have a recommendation? 
>> 
>> Thanks, 
>> 
>> Joe Scott 
>> 1976 C&C 38 
>> Ashtabula Oh 
>> ___ 
>> 
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> 

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Re: Stus-List Garhauer Rigid Boom Vang

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Roger that.



John  wrote:

Just go with the appropriate new Garhauer.



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Re: Stus-List Raymarine EV-100 C&C 38

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Sails?  Balance?

Peace love and understanding?

y9u wrote:

Autopilot should be your first priority!



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