Stus-List survey

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -0300
> From: Robert Abbott 
> To: Brent Driedger ,
"cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
>
> Subject: Stus-List Overpriced?
> Message-ID: <544e676a.5000...@eastlink.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> There is a buyer for everything, at the right price.
> 
> When we were looking for a boat in 2005-06, there were three (3) C&C 
> 32's for sale here in Halifax, N.S...looked at them all.  Looked 
> at a C&C 30 MKI and Mirage 32 here as well.
> 
> Ended up buying our boat from Racine Riverside Marina, Racine, 
> Wisconsin.one owner, professionally maintained, adequately 
> equipped, fresh water boat.  The purchase price, exchange rate and 
> transportation cost to truck it here cost us approx. $8,000 less than 
> what we would have paid for any of the local boats.  We also got a new

> 10' Zodiac thrown in.  And I have sold 3 sails that came with the boat

> that I will never use.
> 
> I never traveled to Racine to view the boat.paid a surveyor about
> $350 USD for a 23 page reportthat was the selling point, the
survey. 
>  I would do that no matter where I was buying a boat.
> 
> I understand many buyers would never do what we did, buy a boat unseen

> so far away.  Would I do it again, absolutely.
> 
> I wish this 32 seller well.if he gets close to his asking price, 
> it bodes well for all us C&C owners.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2014/10/26 10:54 PM, Brent Driedger wrote:
>> I'll chime in on this as Bowline Yachts was the broker for my boat
backwhen I bought it and I know the owner well. At first glance the
prices they ask seem high and become the frequent talk at the club but
with respect to the company's owner I'll provide a little insight to
explain thoughnot necessarily justify the prices.
>> In central Canada here there is not much option for buying used 
>> sailboats. The market is not saturated by any means and the stock of 
>> quality used boats available is thin. This usually means pay what the

>> owner wants oroutsource to the south and pay for exchange, shipping, 
>> border brokerage, flights to and from the location, permits and lots 
>> of survey charges. When you total it all up the prices end up being 
>> fairly close to what Bowline typically charges. Then add to that 
>> there is the comfort level of knowing the history of the local boats,

>> their owners and background. Furtherto that, our season is short so 
>> all of these boats are out of water for 7 months of the year. The 
>> boats are in fresh water the remaining 5 and onLake of the Woods 
>> there's little swell to speak of even in storms. The biggest hazard 
>> is grounding and unfortunately most sailboats there have touched 
>> bottom.  The remainder will some day. The rigs although 30 plus years

>> old show 

Re: Stus-List survey

[dwight via CnC-List]

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think he
does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey Alianna
twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was there and
saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks everything,
including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull valves,
electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of photos in the
report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes his work but I
believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he often finds too many
problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -0300
> From: Robert Abbott 
> To: Brent Driedger ,
"cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
>
> Subject: Stus-List Overpriced?
> Message-ID: <544e676a.5000...@eastlink.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> There is a buyer for everything, at the right price.
> 
> When we were looking for a boat in 2005-06, there were three (3) C&C 
> 32's for sale here in Halifax, N.S...looked at them all.  Looked 
> at a C&C 30 MKI and Mirage 32 here as well.
> 
> Ended up buying our boat from Racine Riverside Marina, Racine, 
> Wisconsin.one owner, professionally maintained, adequately 
> equipped, fresh water boat.  The purchase price, exchange rate and 
> transportation cost to truck it here cost us approx. $8,000 less than 
> what we would have paid for any of the local boats.  We also got a new

> 10' Zodiac thrown in.  And I have sold 3 sails that came with the boat

> that I will never use.
> 
> I never traveled to Racine to view the boat.paid a surveyor about
> $350 USD for a 23 page reportthat was the selling point, the
survey. 
>  I would do that no matter where I was buying a boat.
> 
> I understand many buyers would never do what we did, buy a boat unseen

> so far away.  Would I do it again, absolutely.
> 
> I wish this 32 seller well.if he gets close to his asking price, 
> it bodes well for all us C&C owners.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2014/10/26 10:54 PM, Brent Driedger wrote:
>> I'll chime in on this as Bowline Yachts was the broker for my boat
backwhen I bought it and I know the owner well. At first glance the
prices they ask seem high and become the frequent talk at the club but
with respect to the company's owner I'll provide a little insight to
explain thoughnot necessarily justify the prices.
>> In central Canada here ther

Re: Stus-List Another desperate attempt to maintain my dignity to weather

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

And last night it was blowin' 62 knots at 
Solander Island, near Brooks Peninsula, with gusts to 78 knots.

It's kinda damp here on the Wet Coast.

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1
east side, Vancouver Island

At 08:37 PM 27/10/2014, you wrote:

It's raining.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 27 October 2014 19:28, Steve Thomas via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Frost along the north shore of Lake Erie last 
night, but warm and windy tonight.


- Original Message - From: "Wally Bryant 
via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>

To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:41 PM
Subject: Stus-List Another desperate attempt to maintain my dignity



Yes, I'm aware that is is so hot that the sweat 
running off my scalp has actually started to 
drip off my nose.But I'm still a nice guy...  (baby


___
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Re: Stus-List One of C&C's initial designs

[Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List]

I like the A/C installation, using that method would have saved me many a
boat buck over the current Cruise Air system. However, I would have just
stuck the A/C unit in the companionway for a more a Southern yachtsman
look..

Jack Fitzgerald
C&C 39 TM
HONEY
Savannah, GA USA



On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> And I thought some of us had "old" boats.  Take a peek at this:
>
> <
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1962/C%26C-Canadian-Northern-Hull-%2310-2743930/Mobile/AL/United-States#.VE7zJhZNfh8
> >
>
> Note the "Star" on the bow cove stripe.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
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Re: Stus-List One of C&C's initial designs

[Robert Mazza via CnC-List]

The first six were built by Kurt Beister, on the East Frisian Islands in
northern Germany. Most likely designed by Henry Gruber, but modified for
North American requirements by Cuthbertson and Cassian with the addition of
a CCA type yawl rig and the modification of the ballast casting to add more
lead. CN35 Hull #1, *Ca Va*, was owned by Ian Morch, who would go on to
found Belleville Marine and become the first President of C&C Yachts. Ian
just passed away about two weeks ago. Hull #6, Carousel. the first to be
built by Cliff Richardson in Ontario, but finished by Dick Kneulman at
Ontario Yachts, was owned by Perry Connolly, who, of course would soon
commission Cuthbertson and Cassian to design a 40 footer named *Red Jacket*.
Amazing to see hull #10 available. A truly historic vessel.

Rob Mazza

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> And I thought some of us had "old" boats.  Take a peek at this:
>
> <
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1962/C%26C-Canadian-Northern-Hull-%2310-2743930/Mobile/AL/United-States#.VE7zJhZNfh8
> >
>
> Note the "Star" on the bow cove stripe.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of
> page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___
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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page 
at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List survey

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from and 
use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think he
does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey Alianna
twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was there and
saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks everything,
including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull valves,
electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of photos in the
report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes his work but I
believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he often finds too many
problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -0300
> From: Robert Abbott 
> To: Brent Driedger ,
"cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
>
> Subject: Stus-List Overpriced?
> Message-ID: <544e676a.5000...@eastlink.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> There is a buyer for everything, at the right price.
> 
> When we were looking for a boat in 2005-06, there were three (3) C&C 
> 32's for sale here in Halifax, N.S...looked at them all.  Looked 
> at a C&C 30 MKI and Mirage 32 here as well.
> 
> Ended up buying our boat from Racine Riverside Marina, Racine, 
> Wisconsin.one owner, professionally maintained, adequately 
> equipped, fresh water boat.  The purchase price, exchange rate and 
> transportation cost to truck it here cost us approx. $8,000 less than 
> what we would have paid for any of the local boats.  We also got a new

> 10' Zodiac thrown in.  And I have sold 3 sails that came with the boat

> that I will never use.
> 
> I never traveled to Racine to view the boat.paid a surveyor about
> $350 USD for a 23 page reportthat was the selling point, the
survey. 
>  I would do that no matter where I was buying a boat.
> 
> I understand many buyers would never do what we did, buy a boat unseen

> so far away.  Would I do it again, absolutely.
> 
> I wish this 32 seller well.if he gets close to his asking price, 
> it bodes well for all us C&C owners.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2014/10/26 10:54 PM, Brent Driedger wrote:
>> I'll chime in on this as Bowline Yachts was the broker for my 

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find
your own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we
purchased Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right
next door.  My broker contacted the listing broker and between them took
care of many details that it would be difficult for me to do since the
boat was nearly 1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing
broker and buyers broker split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own
interests and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have
helped him as well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from
and use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think
he does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey
Alianna twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was
there and saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks
everything, including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull
valves, electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of
photos in the report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes
his work but I believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he
often finds too many problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -0300
> From: Robert Abbott 
> To: Brent Driedger ,
"cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
>
> Subject: Stus-List Overpriced?
> Message-ID: <544e676a.5000...@eastlink.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> There is a buyer for everything, at the right price.
> 
> When we were looking for a boat in 2005-06, there were three (3) C&C 
> 32's for sale here in Halifax, N.S...looked at them all.  Looked 
> at a C&C 30 MKI and Mirage 32 here as well.
> 
> Ended up buying our boat from Racine Riverside Marina, Racine, 
> Wisconsin.one owner, professionally maintained, adequately 
> e

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I guess in some markets this is doable. Personally, I could not find one, 
where I needed him (her). But the surveyors were available. In fact,  I 
interviewed three of them before selecting one.


Marek
s/v Legato
Ottawa

-Original Message- 
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:26 AM
To: Danny Haughey ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find
your own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we
purchased Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right
next door.  My broker contacted the listing broker and between them took
care of many details that it would be difficult for me to do since the
boat was nearly 1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing
broker and buyers broker split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own
interests and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have
helped him as well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from
and use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think
he does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey
Alianna twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was
there and saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks
everything, including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull
valves, electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of
photos in the report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes
his work but I believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he
often finds too many problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
   cnc-list@cnc-list.com

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than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -0300
From: Robert Abbott 
To: Brent Driedger ,

"cnc-list@cnc-list.com"

   
Subject: Stus-List Overpriced?
Message-ID: <544e676a.5000...@eastlink.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

There is a buyer for everything, at the rig

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Really,

I thought they would all represent a buyer, just like real estate brokers.  
They may not advertise as a *buyers* broker but, I'm willing to bet most 
brokers would be happy to help find you a boat for a cut of the commission.

Danny
-- Original Message --
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: "Hoyt, Mike" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:34:28 -0400

I guess in some markets this is doable. Personally, I could not find one, 
where I needed him (her). But the surveyors were available. In fact,  I 
interviewed three of them before selecting one.

Marek
s/v Legato
Ottawa

-Original Message- 
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:26 AM
To: Danny Haughey ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find
your own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we
purchased Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right
next door.  My broker contacted the listing broker and between them took
care of many details that it would be difficult for me to do since the
boat was nearly 1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing
broker and buyers broker split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own
interests and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have
helped him as well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from
and use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think
he does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey
Alianna twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was
there and saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks
everything, including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull
valves, electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of
photos in the report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes
his work but I believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he
often finds too many problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
moral of the story is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Buyers brokers have become common both in real estate and floating estate
here in the states. Like any broker, they can be very valuable and helpful
or bordering on fraudulent and everywhere in between. Good luck.

Burt

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:39 AM
To: dziedzi...@hotmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers


Really,

I thought they would all represent a buyer, just like real estate brokers.
They may not advertise as a *buyers* broker but, I'm willing to bet most
brokers would be happy to help find you a boat for a cut of the commission.

Danny
-- Original Message --
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: "Hoyt, Mike" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:34:28 -0400

I guess in some markets this is doable. Personally, I could not find one,
where I needed him (her). But the surveyors were available. In fact,  I
interviewed three of them before selecting one.

Marek
s/v Legato
Ottawa

-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:26 AM
To: Danny Haughey ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find your
own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we purchased
Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right next door.  My
broker contacted the listing broker and between them took care of many
details that it would be difficult for me to do since the boat was nearly
1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing broker and buyers broker
split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own interests
and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have helped him as
well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from and
use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think he
does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey Alianna
twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was there and
saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks everything,
including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull valves,
electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of photos in the
report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes his work but I
believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he often finds too many
problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey commissioned
and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an insurance survey
commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for insurance purposes.  The
buyers survey is usually more detailed and is there to point out the
potential issues as well as strengths of the boat.  An insurance survey does
not always record everything to the same level of detail and is designed to
put a valuation on the boat for insurance purposes.  I have had both done.
I like my insurance company to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However
when buying I like to know potential expenses I will incur in order to
determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had the
seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been honest, I
could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The moral of the story
is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Send Cn

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Danny

When I list my boat with a broker he is representing me the same as a
real estate agent selling my house would.  I am his customer.

However when I found a boat I wanted I contacted a local broker to help
me put the deal together.  He also handled customs and everything else
for me including finding a surveyor in the area where the boat was
located etc ...  He is not in fact a "Buyer's broker" but is a broker
like every other that has boats listed for sale.  He is also very
knowledgeable in what is needed to buy a boat out of province and out of
country and who to contact in those areas   

I used the same broker to list my boat.

Yes.  He would be happy to find a boat for me or anyone else and would
have preferred me to buy one he had listed.

Another interesting thing is this list.  When I was looking at the boat
as a potential purchase Harry Hallgring form this list (and formerly
with Cukoo Voodoo a J27) looked at the boat for me.  This list has so
many contacts in so many locations that make it so great.  Having Harry
step aboard the boat gave me a perspective outside of that of a surveyor
that was really nice.  Things like odours and overall impressions that
surveys do not always convey were the things that Harry passed along.

Anyway 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:39 AM
To: dziedzi...@hotmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers


Really,

I thought they would all represent a buyer, just like real estate
brokers.  They may not advertise as a *buyers* broker but, I'm willing
to bet most brokers would be happy to help find you a boat for a cut of
the commission.

Danny
-- Original Message --
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: "Hoyt, Mike" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:34:28 -0400

I guess in some markets this is doable. Personally, I could not find
one, where I needed him (her). But the surveyors were available. In
fact,  I interviewed three of them before selecting one.

Marek
s/v Legato
Ottawa

-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:26 AM
To: Danny Haughey ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find
your own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we
purchased Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right
next door.  My broker contacted the listing broker and between them took
care of many details that it would be difficult for me to do since the
boat was nearly 1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing
broker and buyers broker split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own
interests and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have
helped him as well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from
and use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think
he does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey
Alianna twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was
there and saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks
everything, including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull
valves, electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of
photos in the report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes
his work but I believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he
often finds too many problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
boat.  An insurance survey does 

Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

We did the same when we bought our boat 1800 km away from home in Toronto
in 2010.

We are in Cape Breton.  We used a Halifax Broker to represent our interest
and hired a surveyor in Toronto to go over the boat in detail before we
purchased it.  We did fly up to view the boat and do a sea trial before
closing the deal.

Ken H.

On 28 October 2014 11:26, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find
> your own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we
> purchased Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right
> next door.  My broker contacted the listing broker and between them took
> care of many details that it would be difficult for me to do since the
> boat was nearly 1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing
> broker and buyers broker split the commission down the middle.
>
> I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own
> interests and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have
> helped him as well.
>
> This arrangement was great for me
>
> Mike
> Persistence
> 1987 Frers 33
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
> Haughey via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
> To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
>
> Dwight said;
>  problems,>
>
> There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from
> and use that as your short list!!  LOL
>
> Danny
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: dwight via CnC-List 
> To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300
>
> Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
> surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think
> he does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey
> Alianna twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was
> there and saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks
> everything, including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull
> valves, electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of
> photos in the report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes
> his work but I believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he
> often finds too many problems, some of which might discourage a buyer
>
> Dwight Veinot
> C&C 35MKII, Alianna
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
> Mike via CnC-List
> Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
> To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List survey
>
> Jon
>
> Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?
>
> There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey
> commissioned and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an
> insurance survey commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for
> insurance purposes.  The buyers survey is usually more detailed and is
> there to point out the potential issues as well as strengths of the
> boat.  An insurance survey does not always record everything to the same
> level of detail and is designed to put a valuation on the boat for
> insurance purposes.  I have had both done.  I like my insurance company
> to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However when buying I like to
> know potential expenses I will incur in order to determine a fair price
>
> So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
> Tasker via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76
>
> I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
> recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had
> the seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been
> honest, I could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The
> moral of the story is do your own survey.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> >
> > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
> >cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1.  Overpriced? (Robert Abbott)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:40:26 -

Stus-List Photos from 2014, 2013 and 2012 Northeast C&C Rendezvous

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Listers,

Does anyone have any photos from last month’s rendezvous in Newport? 
Would also like any shots from 2013 and 2012 too. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
___
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Re: Stus-List Overpriced now surveyors

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

Rob,

If your surveyor "Peter K" was from Sheboygan, he surveyed Calypso before we 
made an offer.  He used that line "picking fly sh*t out of pepper" on me when I 
interrogated him on several issues / differences between what I observed during 
my inspection and what he reported.

He did prepare a detailed report that assisted in making the purchased 
decision.  He looked to be in his 70's back in 1998.  When did you use him?

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 7:36 PM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Overpriced

Jon,
Maybe the difference in our experiences buying a boat was that you said you 
received a survey "from a recommended surveyor". Recommended by whomthe 
seller's broker?

My surveyor was 'not recommended'..I chose him myself. When I notified the 
seller's broker, the broker said to me on the telephone "Oh no, tell me I don't 
have to deal with Peter Kth, he can pick pepper out of fly sh_t".  I chose 
the surveyor myself from the US Accredited Marine Surveyors (probably got their 
association name wrong, but you all know what I am talking about) .

I had a completely different experience than you did, maybe because my surveyor 
'did not have the seller's interest in mind'.

My surveyor had my interests in mind.  I made sure of that! Sounds like yours 
did not.  Sorry to hear that, you will know better next time around.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

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Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

[David Jacobs via CnC-List]

I was very hesitant to pay someone to help me purchase a boat but I ended up
using a broker, Bill Shaw in Barrington, RI when I purchased Saltaire. 

Bill did a great job. He suggested that I reduce my offer to what was even
further lower than market value and saved me several thousand dollars. He
also connected me to people who did some necessary work on the boat for what
turned out to be extremely competitive prices.

Actually, Bill and I have become good friends and often sail/race together.
Given my experience I'd certainly suggest entertaining the idea of using a
broker to represent you.

Dave J
Saltaire
C&C 35Mk3

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:34 AM
To: Hoyt, Mike; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I guess in some markets this is doable. Personally, I could not find one,
where I needed him (her). But the surveyors were available. In fact,  I
interviewed three of them before selecting one.

Marek
s/v Legato
Ottawa

-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:26 AM
To: Danny Haughey ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey now brokers

I am not sure if everybody realizes but a common practice is to find your
own buyers broker to represent your interest.  I did that when we purchased
Persistence because I knew and trusted him and he is right next door.  My
broker contacted the listing broker and between them took care of many
details that it would be difficult for me to do since the boat was nearly
1000km from here by road.  Financially the listing broker and buyers broker
split the commission down the middle.

I really liked this arrangement because it really helped my own interests
and in a situation such as Jon mentioned would probably have helped him as
well.

This arrangement was great for me

Mike
Persistence
1987 Frers 33

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: dwight...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey

Dwight said;


There is a good point!  Ask the broker which surveyors to stay away from and
use that as your short list!!  LOL

Danny

-- Original Message --
From: dwight via CnC-List 
To: "'Hoyt, Mike'" , 
Subject: Re: Stus-List survey
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:57:37 -0300

Not sure I agree with you there Mike, I think it depends on the
surveyor...around here if TBoats (Iain Tulloch) is your surveyor I think he
does the same detailed inspection every time...I have had him survey Alianna
twice, 5 years apart for insurance purposes and each time I was there and
saw him go over the boat with a fine tooth comb...he checks everything,
including rig, deck, hull and rudder moisture content, hull valves,
electrical wiring, fuel lines, etc. and he includes lots of photos in the
report...my insuance company, Royal Sun Alliance, likes his work but I
believe the brokers don't share that feeling because he often finds too many
problems, some of which might discourage a buyer

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: October 28, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List survey

Jon

Was the survey done for you?  Did you pay for it?

There are two types of surveys.  There is a pre-purchase survey commissioned
and paid for by the potential buyer and there is an insurance survey
commissioned and paid for by the existing owner for insurance purposes.  The
buyers survey is usually more detailed and is there to point out the
potential issues as well as strengths of the boat.  An insurance survey does
not always record everything to the same level of detail and is designed to
put a valuation on the boat for insurance purposes.  I have had both done.
I like my insurance company to have a very high opinion of my boat.  However
when buying I like to know potential expenses I will incur in order to
determine a fair price

So back to the original question.  Who paid for the survey?

Mike

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jon
Tasker via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 105, Issue 76

I also bought my boat in Racine and got a multi-page report from the
recommended surveyor. The survey was dishonest from start to finish, had the
seller's interest in mind and future survey business. Had it been honest, I
could have gotten another $10,000 off the sell price. The moral of the story
is do your own survey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Send CnC-List mailing list 

Stus-List Overpriced now surveyors

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Martin:

We are probably referring to the same surveyor, Peter Knonich (if my 
spelling is correct, probably not)...former US Naval Officer, naval 
architect. from Sheboygan.  He surveyed our boat in March 2006.  The 
seller's broker said he was 'older than dirt' but could 'pick pepper out 
of fly s__t'.  The surveyor even went to a sail loft to inventory and 
inspect the sails listed which he did not have to do.  I had a good 
feeling I had chosen a surveyor that was going to tell me what I needed 
to hear not what I wanted to hear.


I traded several emails and spoke with him on the telephone several 
times.  In very simple terms, he told me that the boat had no 
significant issues.  As his reputation would have it (pick pepper out of 
fly s__t) he said a switch in the engine compartment was missing the red 
plastic tip.


And I would like to put this out there, there are honest sellers' 
broker(s).  The seller's broker in Racine I dealt with would not 
recommend a surveyor to me... I admit it, I was stupid and asked him 
for one..he refused...said get your own.gave me the website for 
the US Accredited Marine Surveyors' looked at those close to Racine 
and the CV of Peter Kronich  looked good to me.


When our boat arrived by truck from Racine to Hfx. (actually via Chester 
first, don't ask) late on Friday afternoon and I met it and climbed 
aboard for the first time, my $350 USD survey fee was well worth it.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


4/10/28 2:40 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote:

Rob,

If your surveyor "Peter K" was from Sheboygan, he surveyed Calypso before we made an 
offer.  He used that line "picking fly sh*t out of pepper" on me when I interrogated him 
on several issues / differences between what I observed during my inspection and what he reported.

He did prepare a detailed report that assisted in making the purchased 
decision.  He looked to be in his 70's back in 1998.  When did you use him?

Martin
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
Abbott via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 7:36 PM
To: Jon Tasker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Overpriced

Jon,
Maybe the difference in our experiences buying a boat was that you said you received a 
survey "from a recommended surveyor". Recommended by whomthe seller's 
broker?

My surveyor was 'not recommended'..I chose him myself. When I notified the seller's 
broker, the broker said to me on the telephone "Oh no, tell me I don't have to deal 
with Peter Kth, he can pick pepper out of fly sh_t".  I chose the surveyor 
myself from the US Accredited Marine Surveyors (probably got their association name 
wrong, but you all know what I am talking about) .

I had a completely different experience than you did, maybe because my surveyor 
'did not have the seller's interest in mind'.

My surveyor had my interests in mind.  I made sure of that! Sounds like yours 
did not.  Sorry to hear that, you will know better next time around.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.






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