Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[Mike Brannon]

My observation on Virginia Lee is that with about 20 deg angle of heel and 
being at boat speed with the boat balanced my cockpit drain is below the 
waterline and my feet are in water (1-2") if I sit on the leeward side.  If I 
am overpowered and the bow is digging in, the drain isn't under water and my 
feet are dry.  

When I bought the boat the original hoses were still installed and they did not 
cross.   I didn't think of crossing them when they were replaced.   As crowded 
as everything is in that that area I'm not sure I could.   

Mike
Virginia Lee 93295
C&C 36 CB
Virginia Beach, VA



Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 13, 2013, at 17:17, Alex Giannelia  wrote:
> 
> Back to me,  I went on another site, one for designers etc, and basically, 
> the skinny is that of course if the angle of heel is too great (needs to be 
> calculated on a boat by boat basis) it would not drain, but imagine a 2 foot 
> wide cockpit with a one foot depth to the DWL so using simplified trig, a 
> less than 28 degree heel would mean that the lower cockpit side would still 
> drain to the other side through the seacock.
> 
> OF COURSE with a higher degree of heel it will be buried, but 30 degrees is a 
> big number especially when the boat optimally sails at 15...
> 
> I note Dwight's comment that his are crossed.
> 
> Cheers
> Alex Giannelia
> CC 35-II 1974 to be renamed after re-launch
> TORONTO, Ontario
> 
> ag@@airsensing.com
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> Sent: October-13-13 9:35 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 93, Issue 40
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
> Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  34R hull (Andrew Burton)
>   2.  COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not? (Alex Giannelia)
>   3.  TV bracket (Chuck S)
>   4. Re:  COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not? (dwight veinot)
>   5. Re:  TV bracket (Knowles Rich)
>   6. Re:  TV bracket (Aaron Rouhi)
>   7. Re:  TV bracket (Knowles Rich)
>   8.  Fw:  TV bracket (Persuasion)
>   9. Re:  COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not? (j...@svpaws.net)
>  10. Re:  Annapolis Boat Show (Monty Schumpert)
>  11. Re:  TV bracket (Jim Watts)
>  12. Re:  C&C 33 Mkii 1985 - Bildge/Power (Colin Kilgour)
>  13.  Wind based VMG - long and technical (Dennis C.)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:08:53 -0400
> From: Andrew Burton 
> To: j...@dellabarba.com, "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 34R hull
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Joe, please don't think I was making that accusation! You're obviously a man 
> of impeccable taste, as show by the boat you sail.
> 
> Andy
> Peregrine
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Joe Della Barba wrote:
> 
>> Didn?t say I **liked them**, just that if any boat was ever built to
>> hit things, that one would be it!
>> 
>> ** **
>> 
>> ** **
>> 
>> Joe Della Barba
>> 
>> j...@dellabarba.com
>> 
>> *From:* Andrew Burton [mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2013 11:02 AM
>> *To:* j...@dellabarba.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List 34R hull
>> 
>> ** **
>> 
>> Joe after beating an old Out House 41 with a busted engine up the
>> Chesapeake for 65 hours, tacking through 120+ degrees and making a ton
>> of leeway, I know which boat I'd rather sail. Those OI 41s are like
>> Cadillacs; they looked good coming off the showroom floor, but boy did
>> they go downhill fast and start looking like hell in a hurry! I can't
>> believe anyone has a soft spot in their heart for them, but some
>> people do. I'll stick with my beautiful C&C that sails like a witch,
>> thank you!
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> C&C 40
>> 
>> Peregrine
>> 
>> ** **
>> 
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Joe Della Barba 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Owning an old 35 MK I, I wouldn?t say the old boats were
>> indestructible tanks like an Out Island. The build weight of a 35 was
>> supposed to be
>> 10,500 pounds, which was kind of light for a 35 foot boat back in the day.
>> I will say the boat has held up for 40 years of now of some very heavy
>> use, so obviously the boat is strong enough. The hull does work in a heavy 
>> sea ?
>> unlike many newer boats a lot of the internal structure is kind of
>> floating in the liner and doesn?t really reinforce the boat. T

Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[dwight veinot]

Has never been a problem on my 35 MKII but I can't remember having much
water in the cockpit at any time


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:32 PM, j...@svpaws.net  wrote:

> Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  If crossed over, how would the cockpit ever
> completely drain when heeled?
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 13, 2013, at 1:59 PM, dwight veinot  wrote:
>
> The aft ones are crossed over on my 35 MKII...no problem
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Alex Giannelia  wrote:
>
>> As I have now finally installed the cover to my Oddisey battery box, I
>> can deal with the issue of my cockpit drains.  Like all 35-2's I have 4
>> scuppers leading into 2 seacocks and while the original rig was to drain
>> port for port and starboard for starboard, I was reading in a boat design
>> and construction manual that for sailboats it is best to cross them over,
>> so when heeling, you still drain the cockpit.
>>
>> What says the crew on this list?
>>
>> Alex Giannelia
>> CC 35-II 1974 to be renamed after re-launch
>> TORONTO, Ontario
>>
>> ag@@airsensing.com
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List C&C 33 Mkii 1985 - Bildge/Power

[Derek Leck]

Yes you are correct.

Thanks for clarifying.





: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :

Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299

Get Involved!
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-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin Kilgour
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 33 Mkii 1985 - Bildge/Power

Derek Leck - I think you're thinking of me (Colin) not Collins, no?



On 10/12/13, Derek Leck  wrote:
> Yeah I was told it could be either but understand you had one of these
> boats and wasn't it you who told me about you repairs to the same?
>
>>
>
> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>
> Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
> METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
> 419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299
>
> Get Involved!
> http://www.metzgers.com/social-media
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:08 AM, "Graham Collins"
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Derek (s)
>> I can tell you it is not a balsa core, the keel sump under the mast
>> step is filled with a high density foam of some sort.  Still smells bad tho'
>>
>> Graham Collins
>> Secret Plans
>> C&C 35-III #11
>>
>>> On 2013-10-12 8:49 AM, Derek Leck wrote:
>>> What a coincidence Derek. My name is Derek and I have the exact same
>>> boat and exact same problem. Apparently our boats have a defective keel 
>>> sump.
>>> This is the area under the mast step.  What I have learned is that
>>> there is a balsa wood core within the keel sump area. After years of
>>> use, especially the stresses of racing, grounding etc. the
>>> fiberglass structure of the keel sump becomes soft.  Now here comes
>>> the part you really don't want to hear. When this sump area gets
>>> weak the entire load of your rig, mast weight, stay tension, sailing
>>> loads etc, are no longer dispersed. Instead, all this force is
>>> directed in a very vulnerable area which is where the keel stub
>>> meets the hull. When you pull the boat you will most likely find a
>>> crack in your hull in this area. Just in front of the keel. This is
>>> why you are getting water in the bilge. The nasty water is due to the balsa 
>>> wood core rotting. I know it can smell terrible!
>>>
>>> The fix is substantial and that exterior crack is the least of our
>>> worries. ( This year will be the third attempt to  correct my issue).
>>> Previous attempts were a wast of time since they were merely
>>> cosmetic. As I understand the keel will need to be dropped, keel
>>> sump area has to be cut out and rebuilt. The entire area beneath the
>>> mast step should be reinforced with additional glass work and
>>> possibly aluminum or stainless plates.  My boat comes out this
>>> Monday and we'll find out exactly the extent of damages and cost to repair.
>>>
>>> I will keep you informed of my progress and I would like to hear
>>> about yours.  Feel free to reach out to me anytime.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> P.S.  Love my boat!  (When it's not leaking).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>>> :
>>>
>>> Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
>>> METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
>>> 419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299
>>> [http://www.metzgers.com/misc/EmailSig.jpg]>> social-media>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2013, at 12:36 AM, "Derek Stanger"
>>> mailto:derek.stan...@yahoo.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello to all.  My first post.
>>>
>>> I'm the new owner of a previously well loved C&C 33 mkii 1985.  I'm
>>> going through I think the normal new boat
>>> challenges/headaches/expenses...but
>>> in particular a couple that I'd like some advice on:
>>>
>>> 1.  Upon cleaning a really smelly,slimy bilge today (salt water,
>>> Vancouver BC) I noticed water spraying into the bilge from an old
>>> screw hole (low in the bilge, on forward side, used for holding bilge line).
>>> It stopped spraying/dribbling after approx. 10 min (and a bit of a
>>> panic).  I'm assuming the "putty" fill (as shown in the owners
>>> manual) forward of the bilge wall might have voids that fill with
>>> the raising water in the bilge?  When the bilge is emptied the water
>>> forward has some head to it and comes back into the bilge.  Does this all 
>>> make sense?
>>> Should I be concerned?  What can I do?
>>>
>>> 2.  With winter arriving, I've been trying to plug into shore power.
>>> Unfortunately our service is only 15 Amps.  All I have running is a
>>> smart charger (drawing 5 amps at 120V) and a saucer heater drawing 0.7 amps.
>>> The breaker on the shore panel keeps tripping.  I checked the
>>> charger by plugging it in direct...and all fine.  I bought a new
>>> cable with a more positive connection to the pigtail.  To no avail.
>>> So, I think I have a problem on the boat.  Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.  Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>
>>> Derek Stanger
>>> __

Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[wwadjo...@aol.com]

H maybe I do this I won't get the gurgling and occasional water I get.now. 
Bill Walker
CnC 36

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Alex Giannelia" 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?
Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 12:29 PM

As I have now finally installed the cover to my Oddisey battery box, I can deal 
with the issue of my cockpit drains.  Like all 35-2's I have 4 scuppers leading 
into 2 seacocks and while the original rig was to drain port for port and 
starboard for starboard, I was reading in a boat design and construction manual 
that for sailboats it is best to cross them over, so when heeling, you still 
drain the cockpit.

What says the crew on this list?

Alex Giannelia
CC 35-II 1974 to be renamed after re-launch
TORONTO, Ontario

ag@@airsensing.com


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Re: Stus-List Wind based VMG - long and technical

[Ken Heaton]

Great summary Dennis, thanks for that.

Ken H.


On 13 October 2013 22:35, Dennis C.  wrote:

> Did some more scratching around on wind based VMG.  I hope I'm correct on
> all this.  :)
>
> First, let's define some terms and abbreviations
>
>
>- VMG - Velocity Made Good.  Velocity directly up or down wind
>- WCV - Waypoint Closure Velocity.  Velocity towards a waypoint.
>(Shows on GPS as VMG)
>- TWA - True Wind Angle.  The angle of the boat to the true wind.
>- TWS - True Wind Speed.  The speed of the wind across the water
>- AWA - Apparent Wind Angle.  The angle of the wind across the boat**
>- AWS - Apparent Wind Speed.  The speed of the wind across the boat**
>- BSP - Boat Speed.  The speed of the boat through the water**
>
> Note: The only one of the above that requires a GPS is WCV.  The remainder
> require either a wind sensor, a knot transducer or both.  The ones marked
> ** are observed, the rest are calculated.
>
> Also note that TWA should not be confused with true wind direction, a
> compass bearing.  None of the above require a compass.
>
> The calculation of VMG is a bit obtuse.
>
> In order for your instrument system to calculate VMG it must first
> calculate TWA.  It does this from BSP, AWA. and AWS (apparent wind speed).
> It's vector addition or trigonometry.
>
> Here is a decent explanation and calculator with diagrams.
>
> http://www.sailingcourse.com/keelboat/true_wind_calculator.htm
>
> Next, it calculates VMG.  Simply put,
>
> VMG = BSP x cosine (TWA)
>
> Here is another site which may help visualize it.
>
> http://lagoon-inside.com/2012/01/faster-thanks-to-the-vmg-concept/
>
> Now, let's point out that VMG does not consider current.  It does,
> however, contain leeway because of the apparent wind component.
>
> Now let's look at WCV.  Many GPS units display VMG.  This is really WCV.
> It is the velocity at which the boat is approaching the active waypoint set
> in the GPS.  A stand alone GPS has no idea what the wind is and therefore
> can not calculate wind based VMG.  WCV will work at the start of a race or
> cruising leg, but will become less useful as the boat sails up the course.
> This becomes apparent as the boat approaches the windward or leeward
> laylines and the racing mark has been set as the active waypoint.  As you
> approach the laylines, WCV will tend to zero as you are sailing past the
> waypoint at a 90 degree angle and are no longer closing on the waypoint.
> In fact, many GPS units will display negative WCV once you have overstood
> the layline.  A useful tool if you also have instruments that calculate VMG.
>
> So how do you use your GPS to approximate VMG for a windward/leeward
> race?  Simple.  Before the race begins, turn head to wind and observe the
> true wind direction.  Next, enter a waypoint in your GPS that is 20+ miles
> beyond, and directly upwind of the windward turning mark.
>
> Now sail your race maximizing WCV.  In some ways, this may be better than
> maximizing wind based VMG because it accounts for current.
>
> Darn, my brain is tired.  I need to go chat with my friend Johnnie Walker.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List C&C 33 Mkii 1985 - Bildge/Power

[Derek Stanger]

To all.  Thanks for the insight and consideration.  Apologies for delay in 
response, we've had family visiting for Cdn. Thanksgiving.  

Re. sump.  Derek L, good luck on Monday with the haul out/keel drop.  I'd 
really appreciate it if you could advise your findings and perhaps a photo or 
two.     I'm hoping that Graham's 2" void is the more likely scenario for both 
of us.  Let's stay in touch.  

Re. power tripping.  Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm still at a loss.  Next 
time at boat, I think I'll bring my portable heater right to the boxthen at 
least I know the problem is the boat.  I just learned the previous owner never 
used the shore power cockpit plug in 20+ years...so, perhaps corroded or 
defective.

Derek



On Monday, October 14, 2013 5:00:40 AM, Derek Leck  
wrote:
  
Yes you are correct.

Thanks for clarifying.





: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :

Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299

Get Involved!
http://www.metzgers.com/social-media
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin Kilgour
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 33 Mkii 1985 - Bildge/Power

Derek Leck - I think you're thinking of me (Colin) not Collins, no?



On 10/12/13, Derek Leck  wrote:
> Yeah I was told it could be either but understand you had one of these
> boats and wasn't it you who told me about you repairs to the same?
>
>>
>
> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>
> Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
> METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
> 419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299
>
> Get Involved!
> http://www.metzgers.com/social-media
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:08 AM, "Graham Collins"
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Derek (s)
>> I can tell you it is not a balsa core, the keel sump under the mast
>> step is filled with a high density foam of some sort.  Still smells bad tho'
>>
>> Graham Collins
>> Secret Plans
>> C&C 35-III #11
>>
>>> On 2013-10-12 8:49 AM, Derek Leck wrote:
>>> What a coincidence Derek. My name is Derek and I have the exact same
>>> boat and exact same problem. Apparently our boats have a defective keel 
>>> sump.
>>> This is the area under the mast step.  What I have learned is that
>>> there is a balsa wood core within the keel sump area. After years of
>>> use, especially the stresses of racing, grounding etc. the
>>> fiberglass structure of the keel sump becomes soft.  Now here comes
>>> the part you really don't want to hear. When this sump area gets
>>> weak the entire load of your rig, mast weight, stay tension, sailing
>>> loads etc, are no longer dispersed. Instead, all this force is
>>> directed in a very vulnerable area which is where the keel stub
>>> meets the hull. When you pull the boat you will most likely find a
>>> crack in your hull in this area. Just in front of the keel. This is
>>> why you are getting water in the bilge. The nasty water is due to the balsa 
>>> wood core rotting. I know it can smell terrible!
>>>
>>> The fix is substantial and that exterior crack is the least of our
>>> worries. ( This year will be the third attempt to  correct my issue).
>>> Previous attempts were a wast of time since they were merely
>>> cosmetic. As I understand the keel will need to be dropped, keel
>>> sump area has to be cut out and rebuilt. The entire area beneath the
>>> mast step should be reinforced with additional glass work and
>>> possibly aluminum or stainless plates.  My boat comes out this
>>> Monday and we'll find out exactly the extent of damages and cost to repair.
>>>
>>> I will keep you informed of my progress and I would like to hear
>>> about yours.  Feel free to reach out to me anytime.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> P.S.  Love my boat!  (When it's not leaking).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>>> :
>>>
>>> Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
>>> METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
>>> 419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299
>>> [http://www.metzgers.com/misc/EmailSig.jpg]>> social-media>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2013, at 12:36 AM, "Derek Stanger"
>>> mailto:derek.stan...@yahoo.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello to all.  My first post.
>>>
>>> I'm the new owner of a previously well loved C&C 33 mkii 1985.  I'm
>>> going through I think the normal new boat
>>> challenges/headaches/expenses...but
>>> in particular a couple that I'd like some advice on:
>>>
>>> 1.  Upon cleaning a really smelly,slimy bilge today (salt water,
>>> Vancouver BC) I noticed water spraying into the bilge from an old
>>> screw hole (low in the bilge, on forward side, used for holding bilge line).
>>> It stopped spraying/dribbling after approx. 10 min (and a bit of a
>>> panic).  I'm assuming the "putty" fill (as shown in the owners
>>> manual) forward of the bilge wall might have vo

Re: Stus-List TV bracket

[J.P.]

I actually went and got an articulated arm that folds flat. $39 at Walmart. 
Works great for my little 32” TV on a 34’… Have it on the port bulkhead… folds 
flat, yet gives me 180 degrees of movement…and articulates up and down too.


JP

Gabriela 

C&C 34

Clarkston Wa.

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 10:39 AM
To: cnc-list CNC boat owners
Subject: Stus-List TV bracket

 

I am mounting a flat screen TV on my boat.  Can I hang it on an articulating 
arm, or does it need to be flat against a wall? 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

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Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[Rick Brass]

As a matter of policy, it’s probably best that the scupper drains always be 
crossed. That way there is little chance of water getting into the cockpit when 
heeled over.

 

As a matter of practicality, I think it depends on the boat.

 

My 25 mk1 was plumbed port to port. The cockpit sole is about 6” above the 
waterline and the scuppers are about 18” off the centerline; and the boat has a 
beam less than 9 feet. At heel angles of 15 degrees or so you had wet feet. 
When I redid the seacocks (replacing the old gate valves) and replaced hoses, I 
crossed the lines.

 

My Newport 28 (A C&C design) had scuppers aft that drained through the transom 
just above the waterline. When motoring, the transom squatted down and your 
feet got wet. No point is crossing the hoses, so I learned to steer from 
forward in the cockpit.

 

On my 38, there are 4 scuppers plumbed to 2 seacocks, with the port scuppers 
going to the port seacock. But the cockpit sole is 12 to 16 inches above the 
waterline, the scuppers are about 18” off center, and the beam is over 12 feet. 
So the boat would need to heel to almost 45 degree for the scuppers to be below 
the waterline, and that takes a LOT of wind (plus it’s SLOW). There is almost 
no room back there to cross the hoses. And I need to be able to take the 
starboard hose out in order to access the steering and some of the other stuff 
in the “basement”. So I have no plans to reroute the hoses.

 

Alex, you probably need to look at the geography of your boat and do what seems 
to work best for you.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 
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Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats

[Rick Brass]

There's a solution for the "snake nest" of lines: Sheet Bags.

 

I have a total of 8 lines led back to my cockpit winches: 2 genoa and 2 spin
halyards, main halyard, winch end of mainsheet, vang and Cunningham. I
bought 2 big sheet bags, made from Sunbrella and mesh netting, on EBay. Had
them sized to go on the bulkhead on either side of the companionway. Line
tails go in the bags and make a nice backrest when lounging in the cockpit,
and keep the snakes off the cockpit floor when cruising. I also have a
smaller bag mounted below the bridgedeck to keep the traveler end of the
mainsheet off the cockpit sole, and will shortly be installing two
appropriately sized bags against the sides of the cockpit for the tails of
the genoa sheets (when cruising or lounging.)

 

Regarding Antionne's comment about the effort required to hoist the main
from the cockpit - several years ago I invested relatively short money in
installing a Tides Marine Strong Track for my main. I can hoist the main (46
feet of it) to within a foot of the top without using the winch - even with
the added friction of clutch and turning blocks. The Strong Track is
certainly in the running for the "Best $500 I ever spent on the boat" award.

 

As far as reefing goes, the point of reefing when is cruiser mode is to put
in the reef early, before the boat starts bouncing around. I still need to
go to the mast to hook in the  reef cringle, tighten the reef outhaul, and
tie in the reef lines around the boom. But it's a brief trip and I can stay
hooked into the jacklines while I'm on the cabin top.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Godwin
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats

 

And I will be quite glad to get the snake nest of lines out of the dodger
area.

 

Dave

1982 C"&C 37 - "Ronin"

 

 

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Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats

[David Knecht]

I considered adding the Tides Strong Track system this year and if it was a 
$500 upgrade I would have done it without further thought.  But unless I am 
missing something, at $30/ft for the track alone, not including the sail mods 
to attach the batten cars, you are talking about closer to $1500.  Dave

On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:01 PM, "Rick Brass"  wrote:

> There’s a solution for the “snake nest” of lines: Sheet Bags.
>  
> I have a total of 8 lines led back to my cockpit winches: 2 genoa and 2 spin 
> halyards, main halyard, winch end of mainsheet, vang and Cunningham. I bought 
> 2 big sheet bags, made from Sunbrella and mesh netting, on EBay. Had them 
> sized to go on the bulkhead on either side of the companionway. Line tails go 
> in the bags and make a nice backrest when lounging in the cockpit, and keep 
> the snakes off the cockpit floor when cruising. I also have a smaller bag 
> mounted below the bridgedeck to keep the traveler end of the mainsheet off 
> the cockpit sole, and will shortly be installing two appropriately sized bags 
> against the sides of the cockpit for the tails of the genoa sheets (when 
> cruising or lounging.)
>  
> Regarding Antionne’s comment about the effort required to hoist the main from 
> the cockpit – several years ago I invested relatively short money in 
> installing a Tides Marine Strong Track for my main. I can hoist the main (46 
> feet of it) to within a foot of the top without using the winch – even with 
> the added friction of clutch and turning blocks. The Strong Track is 
> certainly in the running for the “Best $500 I ever spent on the boat” award.
>  
> As far as reefing goes, the point of reefing when is cruiser mode is to put 
> in the reef early, before the boat starts bouncing around. I still need to go 
> to the mast to hook in the  reef cringle, tighten the reef outhaul, and tie 
> in the reef lines around the boom. But it’s a brief trip and I can stay 
> hooked into the jacklines while I’m on the cabin top.
>  
>  
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin
> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:52 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats
>  
> And I will be quite glad to get the snake nest of lines out of the dodger 
> area.
>  
> Dave
> 1982 C"&C 37 - "Ronin"
>  
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

David Knecht, Ph.D.
Professor and Head of Microscopy Facility
Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
U-3125
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
University of Connecticut
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200
860-486-4331 (fax)




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Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats

[Andrew Burton]

Peregrine came with the strong track and I have to admit that I am really 
impressed with it. I've used the Antal and Harken offerings and they are 
better, but you pay much more.
Andy
C&C 40 
Peregrine


Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Oct 14, 2013, at 17:11, David Knecht  wrote:

> I considered adding the Tides Strong Track system this year and if it was a 
> $500 upgrade I would have done it without further thought.  But unless I am 
> missing something, at $30/ft for the track alone, not including the sail mods 
> to attach the batten cars, you are talking about closer to $1500.  Dave
> 
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:01 PM, "Rick Brass"  wrote:
> 
>> There’s a solution for the “snake nest” of lines: Sheet Bags.
>>  
>> I have a total of 8 lines led back to my cockpit winches: 2 genoa and 2 spin 
>> halyards, main halyard, winch end of mainsheet, vang and Cunningham. I 
>> bought 2 big sheet bags, made from Sunbrella and mesh netting, on EBay. Had 
>> them sized to go on the bulkhead on either side of the companionway. Line 
>> tails go in the bags and make a nice backrest when lounging in the cockpit, 
>> and keep the snakes off the cockpit floor when cruising. I also have a 
>> smaller bag mounted below the bridgedeck to keep the traveler end of the 
>> mainsheet off the cockpit sole, and will shortly be installing two 
>> appropriately sized bags against the sides of the cockpit for the tails of 
>> the genoa sheets (when cruising or lounging.)
>>  
>> Regarding Antionne’s comment about the effort required to hoist the main 
>> from the cockpit – several years ago I invested relatively short money in 
>> installing a Tides Marine Strong Track for my main. I can hoist the main (46 
>> feet of it) to within a foot of the top without using the winch – even with 
>> the added friction of clutch and turning blocks. The Strong Track is 
>> certainly in the running for the “Best $500 I ever spent on the boat” award.
>>  
>> As far as reefing goes, the point of reefing when is cruiser mode is to put 
>> in the reef early, before the boat starts bouncing around. I still need to 
>> go to the mast to hook in the  reef cringle, tighten the reef outhaul, and 
>> tie in the reef lines around the boom. But it’s a brief trip and I can stay 
>> hooked into the jacklines while I’m on the cabin top.
>>  
>>  
>> Rick Brass
>> Washington, NC
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
>> Godwin
>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:52 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats
>>  
>> And I will be quite glad to get the snake nest of lines out of the dodger 
>> area.
>>  
>> Dave
>> 1982 C"&C 37 - "Ronin"
>>  
>>  
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> David Knecht, Ph.D.
> Professor and Head of Microscopy Facility
> Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
> U-3125
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
> University of Connecticut
> Storrs, CT 06269
> 860-486-2200
> 860-486-4331 (fax)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Stus-List islandpacketrac...@gmail.com

[Mike Casey]

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Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[Mark G]

Rick,

That is really interesting because I've had my '73 25 heeled over to 40 degrees 
and have never had water in the cockpit.  What could account for the 
difference?  Drains are port-to-port, stbd-to-stbd.  At some time in the life 
of my boat prior to me the gate valves were replaced.  The cockpit floor also 
had an extensive repair and it's possible but unlikely the drains were moved.  
I think my thru-hulls are closer to 12" off centerline but I haven't looked 
lately.  

You race your 25, right?  How many do you typically have on board... 5 or 6?  
I've never had more than 4 and some were kids.  With a smaller boat, that may 
be the difference.  When I sailed at the Boston Harbor Sailing Club, they had 
converted Solings with a different deck.  The cockpits were self-bailing only 
when they were unmanned sitting on the mooring.  To go sailing one person would 
climb aboard and close the valves before the others got on board otherwise 
you'd have an inch of water in the cockpit.  Of course you had to remember to 
open the valves when you got off.

Mark

- Original Message -From: Rick Brass To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.comSent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:13:18 - (UTC)Subject: Re: 
Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?


As a matter of policy, it’s probably best that the scupper drains always 
be crossed. That way there is little chance of water getting into the cockpit 
when heeled over.
 
As a matter of practicality, I think it depends on the boat.
 
My 25 mk1 was plumbed port to port. The cockpit sole is about 6” above 
the waterline and the scuppers are about 18” off the centerline; and the 
boat has a beam less than 9 feet. At heel angles of 15 degrees or so you had 
wet feet. When I redid the seacocks (replacing the old gate valves) and 
replaced hoses, I crossed the lines.
 
My Newport 28 (A C&C design) had scuppers aft that drained through the transom 
just above the waterline. When motoring, the transom squatted down and your 
feet got wet. No point is crossing the hoses, so I learned to steer from 
forward in the cockpit.
 
On my 38, there are 4 scuppers plumbed to 2 seacocks, with the port scuppers 
going to the port seacock. But the cockpit sole is 12 to 16 inches above the 
waterline, the scuppers are about 18” off center, and the beam is over 12 
feet. So the boat would need to heel to almost 45 degree for the scuppers to be 
below the waterline, and that takes a LOT of wind (plus it’s SLOW). There 
is almost no room back there to cross the hoses. And I need to be able to take 
the starboard hose out in order to access the steering and some of the other 
stuff in the “basement”. So I have no plans to reroute the hoses.
 
Alex, you probably need to look at the geography of your boat and do what seems 
to work best for you.
 
 
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
 
 
 

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Re: Stus-List islandpacketrac...@gmail.com

[coltrek]

Wild Bill

 Original message 
From: Mike Casey  
Date: 10/14/2013  7:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List islandpacketrac...@gmail.com 
 
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Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[Ken Heaton]

I had a friend who had a Paceship Bluejacket 23, "Morcee" version (MORC)
with a self bailing cockpit.  Like the Soling mentioned above, it was only
self bailing if no one was aboard.  First job on getting aboard was
shutting the cockpit drain valves.  You could usually open them again once
you got some speed on if needed.

Ken H.


On 14 October 2013 21:25, Mark G  wrote:

> Rick,
>  That is really interesting because I've had my '73 25 heeled over to 40
> degrees and have never had water in the cockpit.  What could account for
> the difference?  Drains are port-to-port, stbd-to-stbd.  At some time in
> the life of my boat prior to me the gate valves were replaced.  The cockpit
> floor also had an extensive repair and it's possible but unlikely the
> drains were moved.  I think my thru-hulls are closer to 12" off centerline
> but I haven't looked lately.
>  You race your 25, right?  How many do you typically have on board... 5
> or 6?  I've never had more than 4 and some were kids.  With a smaller boat,
> that may be the difference.  When I sailed at the Boston Harbor Sailing
> Club, they had converted Solings with a different deck.  The cockpits were
> self-bailing only when they were unmanned sitting on the mooring.  To go
> sailing one person would climb aboard and close the valves before the
> others got on board otherwise you'd have an inch of water in the cockpit.
>  Of course you had to remember to open the valves when you got off.
>  Mark
>  - Original Message -
> From: Rick Brass 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:13:18 - (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?
>
> As a matter of policy, it’s probably best that the scupper drains always
> be crossed. That way there is little chance of water getting into the
> cockpit when heeled over.
>
>
>
> As a matter of practicality, I think it depends on the boat.
>
>
>
> My 25 mk1 was plumbed port to port. The cockpit sole is about 6” above the
> waterline and the scuppers are about 18” off the centerline; and the boat
> has a beam less than 9 feet. At heel angles of 15 degrees or so you had wet
> feet. When I redid the seacocks (replacing the old gate valves) and
> replaced hoses, I crossed the lines.
>
>
>
> My Newport 28 (A C&C design) had scuppers aft that drained through the
> transom just above the waterline. When motoring, the transom squatted down
> and your feet got wet. No point is crossing the hoses, so I learned to
> steer from forward in the cockpit.
>
>
>
> On my 38, there are 4 scuppers plumbed to 2 seacocks, with the port
> scuppers going to the port seacock. But the cockpit sole is 12 to 16 inches
> above the waterline, the scuppers are about 18” off center, and the beam is
> over 12 feet. So the boat would need to heel to almost 45 degree for the
> scuppers to be below the waterline, and that takes a LOT of wind (plus it’s
> SLOW). There is almost no room back there to cross the hoses. And I need to
> be able to take the starboard hose out in order to access the steering and
> some of the other stuff in the “basement”. So I have no plans to reroute
> the hoses.
>
>
>
> Alex, you probably need to look at the geography of your boat and do what
> seems to work best for you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
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Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats

[Colin Kilgour]

I also prefer halyards at the mast.  Both for hoisting but also - and
more significantly - for reefing.  I can reef Bojangles (a 50 footer)
by myself in about a minute.  Shaking out a reef is about the same.

And while spaghetti in the cockpit is cool when racing, dropping lines
down the companionway gets old fast when you're cruising.

I singlehand Bojangles (officially) as often as I can and unofficially
(ie: other people on board, but not actively crewing) just about all
the time I go sailing.  The boat has the traveler and main sheet right
behind the helm seat and the primary winches (self tailers of course)
also at the helm seat.  The mizzen sheet winch is also within reach of
the helm. So, once you're clear of the harbour, it's really a dead
easy boat to single hand.  (Note: lazy jacks and good furling gear
help immensely)

Depending on the harbour and its layout, docking the boat single
handed can range from dead easy to darn right impossible.
Fortunately, we haven't used a dock regularly since 2009 and we're
either picking up a ball or - most often - dropping a hook, both of
which are fairly easy to do singlehanded.

People think bigger boats are tougher to sail shorthanded, but if
they're laid out right, it can be easy.  Also, if the boat weighs
close to 40,000 pounds, as mine does, the deck provides a pretty
stable platform when you need to go up there, and if you stop the boat
to pick up a mooring or drop a hook, it doesn't get immediately blown
all over the place while you're running forward.

Cheers
Colin





On 10/14/13, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> Peregrine came with the strong track and I have to admit that I am really
> impressed with it. I've used the Antal and Harken offerings and they are
> better, but you pay much more.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 17:11, David Knecht  wrote:
>
>> I considered adding the Tides Strong Track system this year and if it was
>> a $500 upgrade I would have done it without further thought.  But unless I
>> am missing something, at $30/ft for the track alone, not including the
>> sail mods to attach the batten cars, you are talking about closer to
>> $1500.  Dave
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:01 PM, "Rick Brass" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There’s a solution for the “snake nest” of lines: Sheet Bags.
>>>
>>> I have a total of 8 lines led back to my cockpit winches: 2 genoa and 2
>>> spin halyards, main halyard, winch end of mainsheet, vang and Cunningham.
>>> I bought 2 big sheet bags, made from Sunbrella and mesh netting, on EBay.
>>> Had them sized to go on the bulkhead on either side of the companionway.
>>> Line tails go in the bags and make a nice backrest when lounging in the
>>> cockpit, and keep the snakes off the cockpit floor when cruising. I also
>>> have a smaller bag mounted below the bridgedeck to keep the traveler end
>>> of the mainsheet off the cockpit sole, and will shortly be installing two
>>> appropriately sized bags against the sides of the cockpit for the tails
>>> of the genoa sheets (when cruising or lounging.)
>>>
>>> Regarding Antionne’s comment about the effort required to hoist the main
>>> from the cockpit – several years ago I invested relatively short money in
>>> installing a Tides Marine Strong Track for my main. I can hoist the main
>>> (46 feet of it) to within a foot of the top without using the winch –
>>> even with the added friction of clutch and turning blocks. The Strong
>>> Track is certainly in the running for the “Best $500 I ever spent on the
>>> boat” award.
>>>
>>> As far as reefing goes, the point of reefing when is cruiser mode is to
>>> put in the reef early, before the boat starts bouncing around. I still
>>> need to go to the mast to hook in the  reef cringle, tighten the reef
>>> outhaul, and tie in the reef lines around the boom. But it’s a brief trip
>>> and I can stay hooked into the jacklines while I’m on the cabin top.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Brass
>>> Washington, NC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>>> Godwin
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:52 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List singlehanding bigger boats
>>>
>>> And I will be quite glad to get the snake nest of lines out of the dodger
>>> area.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> 1982 C"&C 37 - "Ronin"
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>> David Knecht, Ph.D.
>> Professor and Head of Microscopy Facility
>> Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
>> U-3125
>> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
>> University of Connecticut
>> Storrs, CT 06269
>> 860-486-2200
>> 860-486-4331 (fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>

Stus-List COCKPIT DRAINS - Criss - Cross or not?

[Alex Giannelia]

stay tension, sailing
>>> loads etc, are no longer dispersed. Instead, all this force is
>>> directed in a very vulnerable area which is where the keel stub
>>> meets the hull. When you pull the boat you will most likely find a
>>> crack in your hull in this area. Just in front of the keel. This is
>>> why you are getting water in the bilge. The nasty water is due to the balsa 
>>> wood core rotting. I know it can smell terrible!
>>>
>>> The fix is substantial and that exterior crack is the least of our
>>> worries. ( This year will be the third attempt to? correct my issue).
>>> Previous attempts were a wast of time since they were merely
>>> cosmetic. As I understand the keel will need to be dropped, keel
>>> sump area has to be cut out and rebuilt. The entire area beneath the
>>> mast step should be reinforced with additional glass work and
>>> possibly aluminum or stainless plates.? My boat comes out this
>>> Monday and we'll find out exactly the extent of damages and cost to repair.
>>>
>>> I will keep you informed of my progress and I would like to hear
>>> about yours.? Feel free to reach out to me anytime.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>> P.S.? Love my boat!? (When it's not leaking).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>>> :
>>>
>>> Derek Leck? : :? Account Manager
>>> METZGERS? : :? www.metzgers.com<http://www.metzgers.com/>
>>> 419.861.8611 x4824? : :? fax: 419.861.3299
>>> [http://www.metzgers.com/misc/EmailSig.jpg]<http://www.metzgers.com/
>>> social-media>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2013, at 12:36 AM, "Derek Stanger"
>>> mailto:derek.stan...@yahoo.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello to all.? My first post.
>>>
>>> I'm the new owner of a previously well loved C&C 33 mkii 1985.? I'm
>>> going through I think the normal new boat
>>> challenges/headaches/expenses...but
>>> in particular a couple that I'd like some advice on:
>>>
>>> 1.? Upon cleaning a really smelly,slimy bilge today (salt water,
>>> Vancouver BC) I noticed water spraying into the bilge from an old
>>> screw hole (low in the bilge, on forward side, used for holding bilge line).
>>> It stopped spraying/dribbling after approx. 10 min (and a bit of a
>>> panic).? I'm assuming the "putty" fill (as shown in the owners
>>> manual) forward of the bilge wall might have voids that fill with
>>> the raising water in the bilge?? When the bilge is emptied the water
>>> forward has some head to it and comes back into the bilge.? Does this all 
>>> make sense?
>>> Should I be concerned?? What can I do?
>>>
>>> 2.? With winter arriving, I've been trying to plug into shore power.
>>> Unfortunately our service is only 15 Amps.? All I have running is a
>>> smart charger (drawing 5 amps at 120V) and a saucer heater drawing 0.7 amps.
>>> The breaker on the shore panel keeps tripping.? I checked the
>>> charger by plugging it in direct...and all fine.? I bought a new
>>> cable with a more positive connection to the pigtail.? To no avail.
>>> So, I think I have a problem on the boat.? Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.? Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>
>>> Derek Stanger
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
>>> ___
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>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
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--
Sent from my mobile device


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Re: Stus-List Fw: TV bracket

[Chuck S]

Yes, I'd like to see a picture of your arrangement thanks. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: "Persuasion"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:10:34 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Fw: TV bracket 




Chuck 

I’ve had a 22” mount on an articulating arm since ‘09. I took 2 pieces of wood 
and routed a slot in the middle to wrap around the stainless tube at the nav 
table. The tv can be turned to any angle. I run my chart plotting through my 
laptop and turn the tv so I can see it at the helm. For movie night I swing it 
out into the salon so there are no cheap seats. If you want I could take a pic 
and send it to you. 

Mike 
S/V Persuasion 
C&C 37 Keel/CB 
Long Sault 




From: Chuck S 
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 1:39 PM 
To: cnc-list CNC boat owners 
Subject: Stus-List TV bracket 


I am mounting a flat screen TV on my boat. Can I hang it on an articulating 
arm, or does it need to be flat against a wall? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 



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