[cctalk] Re: Excellent CHM Article on Apple Lisa Software (Apple Archive)
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, skogkatt...@yahoo.com wrote: Companies don't care about history. It does not affect the next quarter's sales. I had serial number 1 of a Radio Shack shortwave receiver and offered it to them. I got a reply back, 'I'm sorry, we no longer support that model.' cheers, Nigel Chris: PLEASE LEARN HOW TO QUOTE ! Christian
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
Regarding the 1940s high school yearbook article I mentioned: I think it was 1942 - so the war was still hot. The two boys dropped the typing class since they had signed up for the Service and had other training commitments. On the next page was a list of those who had recently signed up, along with a list of recent graduates who had already been KIA (and on which front it was - Pacific vs Eastern). I'll try to remember next time I'm back home, to get a photocopy of that article - maybe post it at the CHM forum as an interesting reminder about the past. I remember chuckling that the 20wpm wasn't too much to be proud of. But, do have to consider the context: they probably didn't have typewriters at home, not sure how the requested content to type was presented (projected onto a wall or on a lettersheet next to them?), and what equipment they had. And just had a thought: if we could find 20-30 working condition type writers today, I wonder how modern high school students would do in a "typing contest" in that equipment -- would they type too fast and jam the things up, ruining both their accuracy and wpm average? :) Hmmm! On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:15 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > It seems as though MOST of us chose the typing class elective. > Disproportionately more than the general population. > > > We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging > this shit around does build up some strength. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > > >
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 11:10:42 PM EST, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the ability to type in programs faster. Sellam C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very flawed typist. Iow I suck.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Friday, January 27, 2023, 12:42:46 AM EST, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:15 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging > this shit around does build up some strength. > Ahem. I was league champion in shotput in 10th grade (43+ feet with an 8lb shot). But yes, mongering vintage computers builds core strength. Sellam C: there never was a person worse at sports then me. Despite my height I was the worst at basketball. Can't stand the game anyway. I suppose I could whack a softball pretty far if I managed to hit it. My shining moment was in 3rd grade when me and another kid won the blue ribbon in the 3 legged race. And won it handily I might add. Whooped everyone else on the field. I won a lot of cred that day also.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:53 AM Chris via cctalk wrote: > C: there never was a person worse at sports then me. You have not met me! If I manage to kick or throw a ball, it will go about +/- 1 radian of where I would like it to go. I can run 100m in about 10 minutes. Get the idea? I''ll stick to getting my exercise by putting minicomputers into racks and carrying so-called portable computers on public transport. The only 'exercisers' in use here are the ones for disk drives and the like. -tony
[cctalk] Re: in need of 2.5" disks
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 at 20:38, Angel M Alganza via cctalk wrote: > > On 2023-01-23 20:59, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > > There was the Amstrad floppy. I think it was 3". Hopefully didn't get > > out > > of the UK. > > Why would you say such a thing? Of course it got out of the UK and came > into Europe, where I could get them, use them, and enjoy them Exactly so! They were a good design. Exceptionally robust, and designed to be posted directly, without an envelope, as the shutter can't be opened by hand, only by the drive. Hitachi's mechanical design was IMHO superior to Sony's of the 3½" diskette. > I was never lucky enough to own a PCW, but I still haven't lost the hope > to get one some day. I need to check some boxes but I think I have 2 PCW9512s. I could be persuaded to part with one. But you'd save money driving to Prague to collect it, rather than shipping the 3 large boxes! -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: the mouse vs. touch sensitive devices
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 at 21:59, Angel M Alganza via cctalk wrote: > > Well, nobody teaches that... At least, nobody has taught me that, nor > have I ever seen anybody do that. In the early days, Apple did when it first introduced them, and some of the 1st PC laptops with them played little tutorial videos. But that was last century now. > And I have seen many people > complaining about how useless they are... Me too, but more seem to like than dislike them. :-( And they are solid-state and take no maintenance or cleaning, so they save manufacturers money. :-( Also, they support gestures, for people weaned on touchscreens, so I think their grip will not easily be broken. I dislike gestures and turn them off. As I type, on a circa 14 year old Thinkpad, which got a RAM upgrade yesterday, my trackpad is disabled and I have only a CLIT mouse. (Centrally Located Input Tool, of course.) > Now, for the first time in my life, have I access to this extremely > important information. :-D > Acceptably by which measurement? I hate them! I hate them! I hate them > with all my might! I disable them in all laptops when possible, either > by hardware or by software. > > But I'm trying one right now and, for the first time in many years, > thanks to this very email of yours, I'm seeing the point of this > freaking thing. I might even start to use it now instead of reaching for > a mouse when keyboard shortcuts don't cut it (almost exclusively while > browsing some very badly designed or heavily graphics loaded web sites). > > Thank you! Oh, well, great. I am very happy I was able to help! -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (CRT Risk)
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 21:26, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > >This Subject: line is damaging my brain. It's such an old name, the 2nd E has worn right out of it. I mean it is the most commonly-used letter. It was always likely to fail first. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/26/23 16:10, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: In college, for a while, I did some temp work keypunching. I was not a fast typist, but I managed to outperform many of the other keypunchers simply becaause the first thing that I did was to look at the card format, and punch a drum card. For some reason many keypunchers think that drum cards are too technical for them to do! One of the things from high school that has proved to be of immense value was the summer I took a typing class. Legendless keys Underwood standard office typewriter. THIS! I took a typing class my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls and IBM Selectrics. :D g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
Sophomore year of high school for me in 1978. My mother thought it would be a good idea. She was right! Standard size Olympia manual typewriters. Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -Original Message- From: geneb via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 6:41 AM To: Chuck Guzis via cctalk Cc: geneb Subject: [cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man THIS! I took a typing class my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls and IBM Selectrics. :D g.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very flawed typist. Iow I suck. Hm. I took typing in 7th grade and was able to type at a solid 70 words per minute. And it's the only class I flunked in. Reason: We had selectrics with all the letters wiped off the keyboards to encourage us to type properly. I couldn't do it, so instead I simply memorized the keyboard layout, then did 3 finger+2 thumb hunt and peck through the class. When the teacher realized this she was furious. Zero.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 6:56 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Hm. I took typing in 7th grade and was able to type at a solid 70 words > per minute. And it's the only class I flunked in. > > Reason: We had selectrics with all the letters wiped off the keyboards > to encourage us to type properly. I couldn't do it, so instead I simply > memorized the keyboard layout, then did 3 finger+2 thumb hunt and peck > through the class. > Roughly similar with me. But in my case, I found the "proper" finger and wrist posture that was enforced to be extremely unnatural and uncomfortable (and probably why Carpal Tunnel Syndrome became a thing). So I developed my own style that involves basically 2-3 fingers on the left hand, 1-2 fingers on the right, plus thumbs (usually the left one) for space. When I'm in the zone I can easily achieve around 80WPM with high accuracy. Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: > > > > ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy > in a room full of girls ... > > g. > And the downside of this was...? Will
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... g. And the downside of this was...? They never shut up. EVER. It was like trying to read in the middle of a car accident. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 2023-01-27 8:19 a.m., Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 01/27/2023 8:41 AM CST geneb via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... g. And the downside of this was...? Will no TIME OF COURSE. :)
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/26/23 19:13, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jan 26, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their electrostatic printer: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X163.83A I know that Lawrence Livermore had one and used it quite a bit back in the day. --Chuck I worked with one of those on the PLATO system in 1976, where it was used in bitmap graphics mode to print music scores. That at first worked very badly because the paper transport was chain driven, with enough slack in the drive that if you'd stop and start it, you'd get irregular paper feeding with as a result gaps in the graphics. I fixed this by writing a new driver that was designed to stream, so it would never stop in mid-job. Interesting. I maintained a bunch of Versatec 1200A printers at work, and ended up with a couple of them at home. horrible paper, like a dirty chalkboard, smelly toner, if the paper was handled before it dried the toner could come off on your hands, etc. But, I had never seen the issue with gaps in graphics, and our drivers, especially on the Nat Semi 16032 system was VERY slow in graphics mode. When laser printers came out, I was VERRRY glad to move into the future! Jon
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. >> > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > ability to type in programs faster. > > Sellam > > C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, > in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican > girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very > flawed typist. Iow I suck. I took typing as an elective in summer school before my senior year of high school, in preparation for typing papers at college. I failed the class because I would backspace and overtype the wrong character. In college I used UCSD Pascal on Terak’s. So I could backspace to my hearts content. Still not a very good typist, and at least now the backspace doesn’t screw up what I send out. (I took care to count the number of times I had to backspace while typing this message: 5) David
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
In high school I had signed up for an electronics class and then my family transferred to another city. In the high school that I then enrolled in, there was no electronics class so I was given the option of another class - I chose typing, which turned out to be a great choice. Since I had started the class mid-semester I wasn't required to pass any proficiency test, so it didn't matter how fast I was. At the same time, I learned to touch-type which was perfect when I became involved with computers, as all the other programmers were doing hunt-and-peck! From: "David Barto via cctalk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: skogkatt...@yahoo.com, "David Barto" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 9:15:48 AM Subject: [cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school > On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. >> > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > ability to type in programs faster. > > Sellam > > C: i took typing as a senior in 1985. The lady was a former military officer, > in her 60s or later. Everyone was scared shirtless of her. 1 puerto rican > girl who sat up front could do 90wpm. Me, I sat in the back. I'm still a very > flawed typist. Iow I suck. I took typing as an elective in summer school before my senior year of high school, in preparation for typing papers at college. I failed the class because I would backspace and overtype the wrong character. In college I used UCSD Pascal on Terak’s. So I could backspace to my hearts content. Still not a very good typist, and at least now the backspace doesn’t screw up what I send out. (I took care to count the number of times I had to backspace while typing this message: 5) David
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
How could I forget to mention. Procured a copy of Mavis Beacon for the Tandy 1000 a number of years ago. Always wanted to hone my decrepit skills. I want to say I scanned the short manual and imaged the disk. I can't swear to it though. I want to write a book. You know on the puter. Type it. Need that program.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/26/2023 11:15 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: It seems as though MOST of us chose the typing class elective. Disproportionately more than the general population. We also probably don't have very many athletes here. Although lugging this shit around does build up some strength. I fit into both categories. Took typing in 1967/1968. Was an athlete, but not in high school. Us poor kids weren't allowed in that clique. But I did become an athlete in later years and still do CrossFit today. bill
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> On Jan 27, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > On 1/26/23 19:13, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On Jan 26, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> I take that back about Versatec, CHM has a document from 1970 on their >>> electrostatic printer: >>> >>> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X163.83A >>> >>> I know that Lawrence Livermore had one and used it quite a bit back in >>> the day. >>> >>> --Chuck >> I worked with one of those on the PLATO system in 1976, where it was used in >> bitmap graphics mode to print music scores. That at first worked very badly >> because the paper transport was chain driven, with enough slack in the >> drive that if you'd stop and start it, you'd get irregular paper feeding >> with as a result gaps in the graphics. I fixed this by writing a new driver >> that was designed to stream, so it would never stop in mid-job. > Interesting. I maintained a bunch of Versatec 1200A printers at work, and > ended up with a couple of them at home. horrible paper, like a dirty > chalkboard, smelly toner, if the paper was handled before it dried the toner > could come off on your hands, etc. But, I had never seen the issue with gaps > in graphics, and our drivers, especially on the Nat Semi 16032 system was > VERY slow in graphics mode. Perhaps it was misalignment, or maybe a different model. I definitely remember the chain drive, and the play it had, and the defective printout. The solution was to run in "streaming mode" -- non-stop data. Hard to do given that the mainframe ran a bunch of high priority real time jobs: the PLATO components. Solution: do the entire job in a peripheral processor, using the CPU only to provide an I/O buffer area for reading the file being printed. I remember the funny paper, not so much the smelly toner. It wasn't as bad as the screen capture printer we had one floor down, made (I think) by Varian -- it somehow captured the image on the orange dot plasma panel display using strange paper and nasty liquid toner. The process used is a mystery to me; it had to be some optical magic because you can't, as far as I know, read out the state of a PLATO terminal plasma panel electronically. Those panels are bistable, the pixels are actual memory cells, but I can't think of a way to sense electrically whether one is on or off. > When laser printers came out, I was VERRRY glad to move into the future! > > Jon Definitely. paul
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Chris via cctalk wrote: can't swear to it though. I want to write a book. You know on the puter. Type it. Need that program. First draft of my Honda book was on my father's WWII manual portable typewriter. Then my co-author would edit and pay somebody to re-type, and the publisher (JMP in Santa Fe) would edit and re-type. For the nest round, I used Electric Pencil. I had a DTC-300 (Hi-Type I daisy wheel that I traded a Honda 600 for). I printed 8" wide on 15" paper. I printed two copies, 8" centered for the editor, and 8" left justified for the artist (Peter Ashwanden, the best automotive illustrator in the business). At the time, I could get 15" paper with tear off for the pin-feeds, AND perforation to tear off at 8.5" wide! They both loved the space for comments or doodles, and were quite willing to send back marked copy for me to incorporate the changes, with the artist tearing off and keeping the right side with his sketches. It wasn't until late in the project that I finally got the publisher to get a computer. They still printed out and gave printouts to their typist (150WPM!) to key into the Linoterm. I was unable at the time to write to the Linotern 8" disks. But, one time that I visited them, I connected TRS80 with Rochester Dynatyper, and did a "printout" by having the Dynatyper beat on the keys of the Linoterm. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
THIS! I took a typing class my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls and IBM Selectrics. :D On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: ... my freshman year of HS. I was the only guy in a room full of girls ... And the downside of this was...? When quoting, you left off his big grin! and the Selectrics. Computer printers for early microcomputers were hideously expensive. There were a couple of outfits (one in Walnut Creek), who made kits to convert Selectrics into computer printers! There were also the Rochester DynaTyper and the KGS-80 that consisted of a box of solenoids to set on top of the keyboard! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On 2023-01-27 10:48 a.m., Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: In high school I had signed up for an electronics class and then my family transferred to another city. In the high school that I then enrolled in, there was no electronics class so I was given the option of another class - I chose typing, which turned out to be a great choice. Since I had started the class mid-semester I wasn't required to pass any proficiency test, so it didn't matter how fast I was. At the same time, I learned to touch-type which was perfect when I became involved with computers, as all the other programmers were doing hunt-and-peck! PECK PECK HUNT PECK HUNT Still am, but I like a good key board.Ben.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/27/2023 2:22 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Computer printers for early microcomputers were hideously expensive. There were a couple of outfits (one in Walnut Creek), who made kits to convert Selectrics into computer printers! There were also the Rochester DynaTyper and the KGS-80 that consisted of a box of solenoids to set on top of the keyboard! My first computer printer for use on my TRS-80 was a Lorenz LO15. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49329523523_61d7a79b55_b.jpg bill
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
Speaking of good keyboards, my typing class used IBM Selectrics for the lucky people but we also had some older Underwoods and Royals in the class. You got those when you irritated the teacher. I took Typing I & II and it's worked out great as every job I've had since required lots of typing. On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 2:41 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2023-01-27 10:48 a.m., Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: > > In high school I had signed up for an electronics class and then my > family transferred to another city. > > In the high school that I then enrolled in, there was no electronics > class so I was given the option of another class - I chose typing, which > turned out to be a great choice. > > Since I had started the class mid-semester I wasn't required to pass any > proficiency test, so it didn't matter how fast I was. > > At the same time, I learned to touch-type which was perfect when I > became involved with computers, as all the other programmers were doing > hunt-and-peck! > > > PECK PECK HUNT PECK HUNT > Still am, but I like a good key board.Ben. > > >
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
>> >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. >> > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > ability to type in programs faster. > I took typing class in High School all four years. Because I had developed an interest in typing when I was much younger, one of my relatives had given me an old Royal typewriter when I was something like 6 years old. I was proficient with the alphabet and had a pretty good vocabulary for my age, so I started to use the typewriter to write out my ideas for various inventions that I thought up(most of which were completely impossible, but I actually did make some of them). Of course, I typed in a way that was my own creation. It was at first hunt and peck, and evolved as I got more familiar with the layout of the keyboard into my own version of touch typing. I started using a Teletype 33ASR in sixth grade for learning programming on the HP 2000C timeshared BASIC system that the county school system owned, and the familiarity with a typewriter keyboard meant that I got pretty good at typing on the Teletype - being able to type on it about as fast as the mechanism would allow. Since the vocabulary for typing in BASIC programs was fairly limited, my fingers got muscle memory on the various keywords and I could rip them out such that the interlock on the keyboard held back the pressure of the finger to type the next character in a keyword that when the mechanism finished printing, that key would immediately be depressed. About the only place I slowed down a little was typing literal text in PRINT statements, math expressions, and print formats in IMAGE statements. By the time I got to the High School typing class, I could easily type 70-80 WPM with very low error rates for extended periods of time, and could burst up to 110WPM. But, I typed in a way that was completely incorrect as far as the formal way of typing goes. After the first few weeks of class, it became apparent to the instructor that I could type quite well, as well as quite quickly, but I did it all wrong. I was the second fastest typist in the class (there was a girl in the class who was faster), but I had the lowest error rate in sustained high-speed typing. The teacher was a great guy. He was constantly on me to type the right way out of due diligence, but didn't press it, and I'd constantly ignore him. He would stand over me and watch me type, and would shake his head in both disgust, and in marvel that I could type as fast as I did using a completely bizarre method. He often told me that it was a wonder that I didn't tie my fingers into knots typing the way that I did. When it came time to grade my performance in the class, he was torn. He told me that he wanted to give me a failing grade because I did not learn the proper way to type, but at the same time because I could type all of the material very accurately and quickly, he could not help but give me an A because I performed better than the vast majority of the students in the class despite the bizarre way that I typed. I still use this strange way of typing to this day (many decades later), and can still type pretty darned fast, although my error rate has crept up quite a bit due to arthritis in my fingers, as well as general neurological degradation due to age. It works for me, and in the end, I got all As in typing class for all four years. I took the class after my Freshman year even though it was no longer required (it was required for all students to pass at least one year of typing in order to graduate, which was quite forward-thinking for those days) because I really liked the teacher, and the practice was good for keeping my speed up and error rate down, which proved very helpful for writing papers later on in High School, as well as in my computer programming classes and work after I graduated. It's always interesting to study the unusual methods that get used when people (especially young people) come up with their own ways of doing things out of interest or necessity versus what is the traditionally-trained way. I think in a lot of cases as people get into the school systems, their unique ways of doing things get trained out of them, even though their unique methods had evolved into a superior means of accomplishing something. I had a great deal of respect for this typing teacher for realizing that my unique way of typing worked very well for me, didn't affect the results of what was required, and thus left me alone and didn't try to force the "correct" way on me. It is unfortunate that the insight that this teacher had is not more common in the educational realm. RIP Al Yanzic! -Rick -- Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum https://oldcalculatormuseum.com Beavercreek, Oregon
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
@ Fred - " ...in Walnut Creek..." C: any affiation to WC CD-ROM? Wiki says they were around in ms-dos says.
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: I was proficient with the alphabet and had a pretty good vocabulary for my age, so I started to use the typewriter to write out my ideas for various inventions that I thought up(most of which were completely impossible, but I actually did make some of them). You can only actually make them if you don't know that they are impossible until after you have made them. (Wile E. Coyote principle)
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 12:01 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > > I was proficient with the alphabet and had a pretty good vocabulary for > > my age, so I started to use the typewriter to write out my ideas for > > various inventions that I thought up(most of which were completely > > impossible, but I actually did make some of them). > > You can only actually make them if you don't know that they are impossible > until after you have made them. (Wile E. Coyote principle) > Some of the most amazing inventions came about because the inventor never got the memo saying it was impossible. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
I took typing in summer school before high school freshman. After 2 weeks I was at 20 WPM. At the end of the semester, I was at 20 WPM. 🙁 I have since resorted to index and thumb on both hands. Dwight From: Rick Bensene via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 11:41 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Rick Bensene Subject: [cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school >> >> And, yes, even as a male I had typing in high school. >> > > I had typing as an elective class in 7th grade in 1984. It gave me the > ability to type in programs faster. > I took typing class in High School all four years. Because I had developed an interest in typing when I was much younger, one of my relatives had given me an old Royal typewriter when I was something like 6 years old. I was proficient with the alphabet and had a pretty good vocabulary for my age, so I started to use the typewriter to write out my ideas for various inventions that I thought up(most of which were completely impossible, but I actually did make some of them). Of course, I typed in a way that was my own creation. It was at first hunt and peck, and evolved as I got more familiar with the layout of the keyboard into my own version of touch typing. I started using a Teletype 33ASR in sixth grade for learning programming on the HP 2000C timeshared BASIC system that the county school system owned, and the familiarity with a typewriter keyboard meant that I got pretty good at typing on the Teletype - being able to type on it about as fast as the mechanism would allow. Since the vocabulary for typing in BASIC programs was fairly limited, my fingers got muscle memory on the various keywords and I could rip them out such that the interlock on the keyboard held back the pressure of the finger to type the next character in a keyword that when the mechanism finished printing, that key would immediately be depressed. About the only place I slowed down a little was typing literal text in PRINT statements, math expressions, and print formats in IMAGE statements. By the time I got to the High School typing class, I could easily type 70-80 WPM with very low error rates for extended periods of time, and could burst up to 110WPM. But, I typed in a way that was completely incorrect as far as the formal way of typing goes. After the first few weeks of class, it became apparent to the instructor that I could type quite well, as well as quite quickly, but I did it all wrong. I was the second fastest typist in the class (there was a girl in the class who was faster), but I had the lowest error rate in sustained high-speed typing. The teacher was a great guy. He was constantly on me to type the right way out of due diligence, but didn't press it, and I'd constantly ignore him. He would stand over me and watch me type, and would shake his head in both disgust, and in marvel that I could type as fast as I did using a completely bizarre method. He often told me that it was a wonder that I didn't tie my fingers into knots typing the way that I did. When it came time to grade my performance in the class, he was torn. He told me that he wanted to give me a failing grade because I did not learn the proper way to type, but at the same time because I could type all of the material very accurately and quickly, he could not help but give me an A because I performed better than the vast majority of the students in the class despite the bizarre way that I typed. I still use this strange way of typing to this day (many decades later), and can still type pretty darned fast, although my error rate has crept up quite a bit due to arthritis in my fingers, as well as general neurological degradation due to age. It works for me, and in the end, I got all As in typing class for all four years. I took the class after my Freshman year even though it was no longer required (it was required for all students to pass at least one year of typing in order to graduate, which was quite forward-thinking for those days) because I really liked the teacher, and the practice was good for keeping my speed up and error rate down, which proved very helpful for writing papers later on in High School, as well as in my computer programming classes and work after I graduated. It's always interesting to study the unusual methods that get used when people (especially young people) come up with their own ways of doing things out of interest or necessity versus what is the traditionally-trained way. I think in a lot of cases as people get into the school systems, their unique ways of doing things get trained out of them, even though their unique methods had evolved into a superior means of accomplishing something. I had a great deal of respect for this typing teacher for realizing that my unique way of typing worked very well for me, didn't affect the results of what was required, and thus left
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
There were a couple of outfits (one in Walnut Creek), who made kits to convert Selectrics into computer printers! On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Chris via cctalk wrote: @ Fred - " ...in Walnut Creek..." C: any affiation to WC CD-ROM? Wiki says they were around in ms-dos says. No, not related. The Escon typewriter conversion kits were long gone before CD-ROMs, possibly before 5150!And, by that time, Tandy offered more affordable printers, and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, so there was no longer need desperate enough to convert Selectrics. https://vintagecomputer.ca/escon-selectric-kit/ https://vintagecomputer.ca/files/Escon/ It is unlikely, but not impossible, that there could be overlap of people involved. The company official address (and corporation) was listed as San Ramon, but warranty service was in Pleasant Hill, and there were retail sales out of Walnut Creek. Walnut Creek CD-ROM started in 1991 The first official MS-DOS support of CD-ROMs was 1984? in DOS 3.10 (that is "three point ten", not "three point one" (Int 21, function 30h returns 3 in AL and 0Ah in AH)) It included MSCDEX and used redirection; since MS-DOS did not support drives larger than 32MB until 3.31, the "redirector" made the CD-ROM look like a remote drive "on the network". Try doing a CHKDSK of a CD-ROM. MSCDEX was supported on 3.10 on, but was not included in MS-DOS distribution until 6.x, and/or Win3.11 (Win setup/install for 3.00 and 3.10 were eventually available on CD-ROM!) MSCDEX aparently uses the [undocumented] Int 2Fh network redirestor. It can be patched to work with DOS 3.00, and a few people did claim to have created programs to access CD-ROMs in DOS from 2.00 on! In addition to MSCDEX, DOS also needed drivers to access the CD-ROM drive. Those were specific to the controller card. ASPI simplified SCSI access. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/27/2023 3:46 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, Yes, I always got a kick out of these. Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA". The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. bill
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Yes, I always got a kick out of these. Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA". The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. So, it was honest to label the box, "Made in USA"?
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/27/2023 3:53 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Yes, I always got a kick out of these. Came in an IBM box labeled "Made in USA". The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. So, it was honest to label the box, "Made in USA"? Apparently. They did it for years until Epson started manufacturing over here. bill
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> On 01/27/2023 3:00 PM CST Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > On 1/27/2023 3:53 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >>> and IBM sold what seems to be a re-badged Epson MX-80, > > > > On Fri, 27 Jan 2023, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > Yes, I always got a kick out of these. Came in an IBM box labeled > > > "Made in > > > USA". The only thing "Made in USA" was the box. > > So, it was honest to label the box, "Made in USA"? > > Apparently. They did it for years until Epson started manufacturing > over here. > > > bill That was a common practice in those days. I remember seeing news stories about it. I "think" a law was passed in late 80s forbidding that. A lot of products now say "this box was (proudly) made in the USA. Will
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> That was a common practice in those days. I remember seeing news stories > about it. I "think" a law was passed in late 80s forbidding that. A lot of > products now say "this box was (proudly) made in the USA. > Will https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard#qualified Third example under. U.S. origin claims for specific processes or parts Apparently passed in 1997. Will
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
On 1/27/23 11:47, Brian Marstella via cctalk wrote: > Speaking of good keyboards, my typing class used IBM Selectrics for the > lucky people but we also had some older Underwoods and Royals in the class. > You got those when you irritated the teacher. I took Typing I & II and it's > worked out great as every job I've had since required lots of typing. > Speaking of keyboards, were there any computer keyboards or typewriter keyboards with interposer mechanisms such as used on IBM keypunches? I recall that was one thing that had a very different "feel" from a typewriter keyboard. It changed my keyboarding style. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
It was thus said that the Great Steve Lewis via cctalk once stated: > Regarding the 1940s high school yearbook article I mentioned: I think it > was 1942 - so the war was still hot. The two boys dropped the typing class > since they had signed up for the Service and had other training > commitments. My grandfather, who served in WWII [1], knew I had an interest in computers, so he got me a portable typewriter (which I still have) and a typing book (first published in 1923) so that I may learn how to type. He said that not only would it serve me well with computers, but also in the military. [2]. I do recall there being typing classes, both in middle and high school, but never took it as a class. -spc [1] He served in the Navy, on a sub, in the Pacific. He never did talk much about his service, although I do know that at least one sub he served on was sunk by Japan. [2] He probably felt that knowing how to type would keep me from the front lines and most likely safe. Can't blame him on that logic.
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
Trimble! I believe that was my drill seargent typing teacher's name was. My idiot friend who sat in front (maybe even in a different class) would call her Ms. Tremble. Because she made him do that.
[cctalk] DEC VR14 TO-3 heat-sink socket?
I finally got around to replace the dead TO-3 power transistors in my VR-14. They are mounted on the power supply regulator heat sink using TO-3 sockets made by AUGAT. Unfortunately one of the sockets has been broken by somebody in the past by over-tightening the transistor mounting screws. This may have been the root cause of the power supply failure as one transistor was doing all the work with the second transistor's collector lead having poor or no connection. There are two NPN transistors in parallel to double the power which is not a very good design anyway. I am trying to find the original Augat sockets. Here are some links to photos showing a closeup of the socket and the threaded insert with the originally crimped collector tab which broke out of the bakelite socket: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MXclwHLDmoz_P2ub7tPc9oqSgrDbnTzR/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XJ7DpGA5Zx0ZSqDVL_gdBSWYuKdFHLlR/view?usp=sharing I would be grateful for any help trying to source these AUGAT made TO-3 sockets. I had no luck finding stock of these with Google and Ebay. Thanks and best regards Tom
[cctalk] Re: Typing class in high school
I took typing as a high school elective in like 1979. I never learned to type. To this day, I can type really fast and accurately as long as I don't think about what I'm doing. G. On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 5:42 PM Chris via cctalk wrote: > > Trimble! I believe that was my drill seargent typing teacher's name was. My > idiot friend who sat in front (maybe even in a different class) would call > her Ms. Tremble. Because she made him do that.
[cctalk] cctalk archives not updating
It appears that the cctalk archives stopped updating in July 2022. See the link below: https://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ Could the new list admin please re-enable the archive feature of the mailing list and if possible fill in the missing months since July 2022. Thanks and best regards Tom
