Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 14/08/2016 06:57, Ian Finder wrote:

Registering interest for 11/40! Also, one comment after playing with my
panels...

We should laquer the back of them to prevent the black back-coating from
scratching off...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:


Hi Guys

 Well my panels made to VCF. I have had some feedback and I
expect more.

Currently I have stock of PDP-8/e (Types A and B) , PDP-8/f and PDP-8/m.

PDP-8/i should be out of manufacturing by now. Next up is PDP-8/L.

  -++ Order the above now ++

Due to our house remodeling and holidays at the silk screen studio it was
quiet up until this week..

However now things have started up again. I'm about to revisit the PDP-8
bezel project.

The prototype had a few issues but nothing major. I should have a painted
example shortly.

Once the PDP-8/L batch are safely in the stock room it will be time to
start on PDP-11 panels.

+++  Please register interest in bezels and PDP-11
panels 

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood









All panels now have a new anti chip coating over the black on the black.

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Ian Finder]

Amazing! Thanks, Rod. You're really on top of this.

On Sunday, August 14, 2016, Rod Smallwood 
wrote:

>
>
> On 14/08/2016 06:57, Ian Finder wrote:
>
>> Registering interest for 11/40! Also, one comment after playing with my
>> panels...
>>
>> We should laquer the back of them to prevent the black back-coating from
>> scratching off...
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rod Smallwood <
>> rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>>  Well my panels made to VCF. I have had some feedback
>>> and I
>>> expect more.
>>>
>>> Currently I have stock of PDP-8/e (Types A and B) , PDP-8/f and PDP-8/m.
>>>
>>> PDP-8/i should be out of manufacturing by now. Next up is PDP-8/L.
>>>
>>>   -++ Order the above now ++
>>>
>>> Due to our house remodeling and holidays at the silk screen studio it was
>>> quiet up until this week..
>>>
>>> However now things have started up again. I'm about to revisit the PDP-8
>>> bezel project.
>>>
>>> The prototype had a few issues but nothing major. I should have a painted
>>> example shortly.
>>>
>>> Once the PDP-8/L batch are safely in the stock room it will be time to
>>> start on PDP-11 panels.
>>>
>>> +++  Please register interest in bezels and PDP-11
>>> panels 
>>>
>>> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All panels now have a new anti chip coating over the black on the black.
>>
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
appears to have 4 partitions on it.

 

For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II, net boot
the MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a SIMH
tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?

 

Second, I would like to find an emulator for the Rainbow. I did a quick
search of the web and it seems like MESS/MAME may be the only option. I have
never used MESS/MAME, has anyone ever emulated the Rainbow successfully with
this software?

 

Regards

 

Rob

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
> before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
> appears to have 4 partitions on it.
>
> For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II, net boot
> the MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a SIMH
> tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?
>

I believe there are tools for dealing with BACKUP/IMAGE savesets on other
platforms but I'm not sure whether they cope with savesets from BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
You might have to restore the saveset using VMS running on SIMH onto an RD51
emulated by SIMH, assuming such a thing exists.  From there, it should be
easier to change it into an image suitable for another emulator if necessary.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob
Jarratt
> Sent: 14 August 2016 11:55
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> 
> I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
> before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
> appears to have 4 partitions on it.
> 
> 
> 
> For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II, net
boot the
> MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a
> SIMH tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?
> 

Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:

%MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format

So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.

What options do I have to image this disk?

Regards

Rob

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Alexandre Souza]

Linux, using dd?

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel

Em 14/08/2016 09:22, "Rob Jarratt"  escreveu:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob
> Jarratt
> > Sent: 14 August 2016 11:55
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> >
> > I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
> > before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
> > appears to have 4 partitions on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II, net
> boot the
> > MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a
> > SIMH tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?
> >
>
> Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:
>
> %MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
>
> So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
>
> What options do I have to image this disk?
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
>

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Dave Wade]

Looking at 

http://www.vaxarchive.org/hardware/mfm/index.html

the RD51 is a 10Mb Seagate ST412 disk with a DEC label on it. I think you
should therefore be able to image it with one of these:-

http://www.vaxarchive.org/hardware/mfm/index.html

Now I have two bare boards for these obtained at great expense because of
the Royal Mail charging me £8.00 (about $10.00) for collecting the VAT which
just about doubled the cost.
I also have a Beagle Board which is needed to run the thing, but I haven’t
obtained any of the other parts needed to build them, and I am not going to
get one built before (insert movable deadline)...
... perhaps we could get the bits an build one at Dec Legacy.. Assuming I
get there

Dave Wade
EA7 KAE (& G4UGM)



> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob
Jarratt
> Sent: 14 August 2016 13:23
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> 
> Subject: RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob
> Jarratt
> > Sent: 14 August 2016 11:55
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> >
> > I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the
> > disk before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51
> > and appears to have 4 partitions on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II,
> > net
> boot the
> > MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a
> > SIMH tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?
> >
> 
> Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:
> 
>   %MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
> 
> So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
> 
> What options do I have to image this disk?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre
> Souza
> Sent: 14 August 2016 13:40
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> ; r...@jarratt.me.uk
> Subject: RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> 
> Linux, using dd?
> 

This did cross my mind. I suppose I am not sure how to get Linux onto the 
machine. With VMS I know I can netboot, I don't have enough Unix knowledge to 
netboot a MicroVAX II. I will try to research how to do it, but if anyone has 
any nice pointers that would be great.

Regards

Rob

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> > 
> > For imaging my first thought is to put the disk into a MicroVAX II, net 
> > boot the
> > MicroVAX into VMS and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL, copying the image to a
> > SIMH tap file.  There shouldn't be any issues with this I assume?
> > 
>
> Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:
>
>   %MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
>
> So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
>
> What options do I have to image this disk?
>
>

It appears that the format used by the Rainbow disk controller is not
compatible with the format used by the controller in the MVII :-(

It looks likely you will have to run something on the Rainbow itself to do
this unless it is possible to extract the disk controller from the Rainbow
and put it into something else that can cope with it.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> > 
> > Linux, using dd?
> > 
>
> This did cross my mind. I suppose I am not sure how to get Linux onto the
> machine. With VMS I know I can netboot, I don't have enough Unix knowledge
> to netboot a MicroVAX II. I will try to research how to do it, but if anyone
> has any nice pointers that would be great.
>

I suspect Linux (does Linux run on an MVII - maybe some bsd variant?) on the
MVII is going to have the same problem VMS is having seeing the RD51 if the
format used by the MVII controller is different to the format used by the
controller in the Rainbow.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[John H. Reinhardt]

I think I've registered with you before, but I'm interested in a PDP-11/70 
panel and if you do them, a bezel for it.

John H. Reinhardt


On 8/12/2016 4:49 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Hi Guys

Well my panels made to VCF. I have had some feedback and I 
expect more.

Currently I have stock of PDP-8/e (Types A and B) , PDP-8/f and PDP-8/m.

PDP-8/i should be out of manufacturing by now. Next up is PDP-8/L.

 -++ Order the above now ++

Due to our house remodeling and holidays at the silk screen studio it was quiet 
up until this week..

However now things have started up again. I'm about to revisit the PDP-8 bezel 
project.

The prototype had a few issues but nothing major. I should have a painted 
example shortly.

Once the PDP-8/L batch are safely in the stock room it will be time to start on 
PDP-11 panels.

+++  Please register interest in bezels and PDP-11 panels 


Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Wade [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 14 August 2016 13:42
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> 
> Subject: RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> 
> Looking at
> 
> http://www.vaxarchive.org/hardware/mfm/index.html
> 
> the RD51 is a 10Mb Seagate ST412 disk with a DEC label on it. I think you
> should therefore be able to image it with one of these:-
> 
> http://www.vaxarchive.org/hardware/mfm/index.html
> 

Dave,

That second link is the same as the first one, did you intend a different
link?

Regards

Rob

Re: Kermit version compatibility.

[Phil Budne]

I ran into (possibly whenthis trying to send some files to the LCM TOPS-10).

Found this:
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckcbwr.html

 C-Kermit 7.0 is the first release of C-Kermit to use fast (rather than 
robust and therefore slow) protocol defaults: long packets, sliding windows, 
control-character unprefixing, and streaming where possible. This makes most 
transfers (partner willing) dramatically faster "out of the box" but might 
break some combinations that worked before. If transfers with C-Kermit 7.0 or 
later fail where transfers worked with earlier C-Kermit versions, try the 
following (one at a time, in this order):

  1.  SET PREFIXING ALL: Disables control-character unprefixing.
  2.  SET STREAMING OFF: Disables streaming.
  3.  CAUTIOUS: Selects medium but cautious protocol settings.
  4.  ROBUST: this command reverts to the most conservative protocol 
settings. 

Execution of multiple file transfers by C-Kermit from a command file when 
in remote mode might exhibit long delays between each transfer. To avoid this, 
just include the command "SET DELAY 0" in your command file before any of the 
file-transfer commands. 

My (vague) recall is that I had to:
Disable windowing
Possibly limit max packet size
Manually start the transfer on the remote end

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Al Kossow]

On 8/14/16 3:55 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
> I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
> before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
> appears to have 4 partitions on it.
>

MAME supports it. It was a bear to get working correctly.

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Al Kossow]

If it's running MS-DOS, you should be able to find/write something to do a raw 
image
dump out the serial port.

That reminds me, I need to image some Rainbow floppies I have.

I would think someone would have already written this in the MS-DOS world.

On 8/14/16 8:54 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/14/16 3:55 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>> I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
>> before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
>> appears to have 4 partitions on it.
>>
> 
> MAME supports it. It was a bear to get working correctly.
> 
> 

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[curiousmarc3]

Thanks!
Marc

> On Aug 13, 2016, at 1:19 PM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> 
> Marc,
> 
> Building a crowbar is easy, just take a Zener a little higher than the psu
> voltage eg 5.2V for 5V rail put a resistor of 1k in series take a Thyristor
> big enough to take about 150% of the schort current and connect it to the
> zener through a small resistor. I suppose you can do the math  ;) 
> Be sure to put a crowbar on both the +12V and +5V and you could consider one
> on the -12V rail but that voltage doesn't have a pass transistor but a 320K
> voltage regulator which has a reasonable protection for over voltage.
> The -5V is connected to the -12V through a zener.
> Tony reverse engineered the schematics, you can download them a the HP
> Museum website or become a member of the HPCC and order the CD with all
> Tony's diagrams (a lot of eexcellent work).
> 
> -Rik
> 
>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>> Van: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens
>> curiousma...@gmail.com
>> Verzonden: zaterdag 13 augustus 2016 12:15
>> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
>> Onderwerp: Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825
>> 
>> Thanks for the info. Any schematics of the modification?
>> Marc
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2016, at 2:37 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
>>> The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
>>> transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
>>> On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form
>>> factor and almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with
>> crowbars added.
>>> It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825
>>> supply because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators
>>> don't have the eternal life.
>>> And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open
>>> circuit, I found out the hard way several years ago.
>>> 
>>> -Rik
> 

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Michael Thompson]

>
> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 09:20:13 -0400
> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove 
> Subject: Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels -
> PDP-11
>
> There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
> E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
> systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right).
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>

The RICM has a brown CSI PDP-11/70 front panel.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 14/08/2016 12:48, Michael Thompson wrote:

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 09:20:13 -0400
From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove 
Subject: Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels -
 PDP-11

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right).

Cheers,
Christian


The RICM has a brown CSI PDP-11/70 front panel.


Sheesh!  Its going to take me a while to catalog all that lot!!

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: VAX file format conversion

[Douglas Taylor]

On 8/13/2016 3:14 PM, Peter Coghlan wrote:



Oh and if you are doing serial transfers, yes, keeping the baud rate
low is a good strategy.
I had to spend some time working on the DECnet-DOS DDCMP driver
developing better character overrun recovery strategies. Yes, you may
be coming in via a terminal line, but that line can hiccup from time to time.


Additionally, I would suggest using any terminal line other than the
console line (OPA0:) to do any sort of serial file transfers, even for
cutting and pasting groups of lines into a terminal emulator running in
a window on some other system.  It is very easy to overrun the console
and to end up getting it hung requiring a reboot or even a poweroff to
clear it.  I suspect there is no flow control at all on the console
terminal line and error recover is poorer than on ordinary terminal lines.

If you can only log in on the console due to lack of licensing, I would
suggest manually typing in just the VAX-VMS hobbyist license (and maybe a
license for a networking product) on the console, then logging on using
another terminal or over the network to transfer the other licenses.

If you can't avoid cutting and pasting into a terminal emulator attached
to the console line, do no more than groups of one or two lines at a time.


The console line is different than other serial ports on the VAX when it 
comes to flow
control, I seem to remember using the other lines for transfer without 
these problems.


I was too lazy to type in the one PAK by hand, although I seem to 
remember doing that in

the past.




Is Hyperterminal screwing things up?


Hyperterminal and/or any of the so-called VT100 emulators bundled with
Windows are of little use to connect to anything that makes more than
the simplest use of a VT100 terminal or later generations of same.  It
will work ok for entering line mode commands but if you start up an
editor or another fullscreen application of moderate complexity, it
will fail spectacularly and leave you with a garbled mess on the screen.
The problem is that Hyperterminal et al do not implement scrolling
regions correctly or maybe at all.

If Hyperterminal purports to provide kermit file transfer, there may be
an option somewhere to specify text rather than binary file transfer or
it may be that this is not required at that end.


Is there a linux program that will do the serial terminal 
emulation/logging ?  I have a laptop
that I am using as the console I am thinking of changing it over to 
Debian Linux.  I was

using an old Dell Mini but the keys were way to small for typing accurately.

Doug

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[fritz_chwo...@web.de]

Am 14.08.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
appears to have 4 partitions on it.


Regards

  


Rob


I can't help but you make me remembering some files for the rainbow I 
got from a nice guy in australia whos's playing mostly with his os/2 
stuff ;-)


http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/rainbow/index.html

for my own CP/M systems I got a MFM Hard Disk Reader/Emulator from 
http://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml.


It isn't useful for your part but with it I managed to replace my 
MFM-Drive and store it in a saver place.



 Australia

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> > Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:
> >
> > %MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
> >
> > So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
> >
> > What options do I have to image this disk?
> >
> >
> 
> It appears that the format used by the Rainbow disk controller is not
> compatible with the format used by the controller in the MVII :-(
> 
> It looks likely you will have to run something on the Rainbow itself to do
this
> unless it is possible to extract the disk controller from the Rainbow and
put it
> into something else that can cope with it.
> 

I should have thought of that. I think my options are either on-box, or
David Gesswein's MFM reader/emulator. My inclination is the latter because I
actually bought the original board but then never actually built it because
at the time I was enjoying the challenge of attempting to create my own such
reader/emulator using an FPGA. My project faltered and I never found the
energy to build David's, but I think I will now.

Regards

Rob

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

Thanks for that link with the files, that looks really useful. Is there a
zip of the whole lot anywhere or an FTP site, to make it easier to download?

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: fritz_chwo...@web.de [mailto:fritz_chwo...@t-online.de] 
Sent: 14 August 2016 17:27
To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

Subject: Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

 

Am 14.08.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
appears to have 4 partitions on it.
 
 
Regards
 
 
 
Rob
 
 

I can't help but you make me remembering some files for the rainbow I got
from a nice guy in australia whos's playing mostly with his os/2 stuff ;-)

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/rainbow/inde
x.html

for my own CP/M systems I got a MFM Hard Disk Reader/Emulator from
http://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml.

It isn't useful for your part but with it I managed to replace my MFM-Drive
and store it in a saver place.

 


Australia


 

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Warner Losh]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Rob Jarratt
 wrote:
>
>
>> > Oh dear. VMS would not let me MOUNT/FOREIGN, it said:
>> >
>> > %MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format
>> >
>> > So I couldn't mount it to do the BACKUP/PHYSICAL.
>> >
>> > What options do I have to image this disk?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> It appears that the format used by the Rainbow disk controller is not
>> compatible with the format used by the controller in the MVII :-(
>>
>> It looks likely you will have to run something on the Rainbow itself to do
> this
>> unless it is possible to extract the disk controller from the Rainbow and
> put it
>> into something else that can cope with it.
>>
>
> I should have thought of that. I think my options are either on-box, or
> David Gesswein's MFM reader/emulator. My inclination is the latter because I
> actually bought the original board but then never actually built it because
> at the time I was enjoying the challenge of attempting to create my own such
> reader/emulator using an FPGA. My project faltered and I never found the
> energy to build David's, but I think I will now.

The format used by the Rainbow and the MVII are the same. The low-level, bits
on the disk format. However, the Rainbow and the MVII use radically
different meta
data to describe the disks (both in terms of how tracks are
constructed and some other
bits). The source to the Rainbow hard disk partitioning and formatting
utility is
available in the various Rainbow archives. You'd need to start there.
It has extensive
documentation about all the details of how things are put down onto
the drive to 'format'
it.

I've successfully read, but not written rainbow hard drives with an
ancient version
of FreeBSD that supported the ST-504 interface and the WD8002
controller. FreeBSD
killed that code a long time ago, but I think it may still be alive in
Linux. It's been so
long I don't recall if it was a simple dd, or if I had to hack
something together to read
the raw bytes off each track...  Looking just now, I can't find the
images I created, but
I still have my Rainbow 100B (upgraded to a 100+) in the basement.

Warner

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/14/2016 08:59 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> If it's running MS-DOS, you should be able to find/write something to
> do a raw image dump out the serial port.
> 
> That reminds me, I need to image some Rainbow floppies I have.
> 
> I would think someone would have already written this in the MS-DOS
> world.

They have.  Back in 1987, I wrote something for the PC called "RAINDOS"
for Rainbow floppies.  I'm sure it's on SIMTEL20.

There are various similarly ancient hard disk backup utilities that use
MSDOS Int 23H/24H for imaging hard drives.  They'll work fine on the
Rainbow, IIRC.


--Chuck

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Warner Losh]

I've read Rainbow disks with both Linux and FreeBSD's floppy drivers. However,
the track layout is 'weird' and I never hacked together anything to cope so that
mount and friends would be able to read the disks.

There was a raindrive.sys, iirc, that did this well enough for DOS to access the
files, but I can't find any copies of it now.

Warner

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> If it's running MS-DOS, you should be able to find/write something to do a 
> raw image
> dump out the serial port.
>
> That reminds me, I need to image some Rainbow floppies I have.
>
> I would think someone would have already written this in the MS-DOS world.
>
> On 8/14/16 8:54 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/14/16 3:55 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
>>> before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
>>> appears to have 4 partitions on it.
>>>
>>
>> MAME supports it. It was a bear to get working correctly.
>>
>>
>

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[fritz_chwo...@web.de]

Am 14.08.2016 um 19:38 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

Thanks for that link with the files, that looks really useful. Is there a
zip of the whole lot anywhere or an FTP site, to make it easier to download?

  


Regards

  


Rob

  


From: fritz_chwo...@web.de [mailto:fritz_chwo...@t-online.de]
Sent: 14 August 2016 17:27
To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

Subject: Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

  


Am 14.08.2016 um 12:55 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

I have a Rainbow 100+ with a working hard disk. I want to image the disk
before it fails and then emulate the Rainbow. The disk is an RD51 and
appears to have 4 partitions on it.
  
  
Regards
  
  
  
Rob
  
  


I can't help but you make me remembering some files for the rainbow I got
from a nice guy in australia whos's playing mostly with his os/2 stuff ;-)

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/sw/dec/rainbow/inde
x.html

for my own CP/M systems I got a MFM Hard Disk Reader/Emulator from
http://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml.

It isn't useful for your part but with it I managed to replace my MFM-Drive
and store it in a saver place.


Hi rob

I can make a zip, for Rainbow or for all the dec stuff?

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[fritz_chwo...@web.de]

Am 14.08.2016 um 19:38 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

Thanks for that link with the files, that looks really useful. Is there a
zip of the whole lot anywhere or an FTP site, to make it easier to download?

  


Regards

  


Rob



Hope it works...

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/!komplete_dec-stuff_from_os2site.zip

Front Panel update - Catalog

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi Guys

I'd like to catalog my growing list of  panels  etc. and 
the data I have on them.


   Some of course I may never make and others I will.

  A number of you are connected to museums and would have come 
across this issue.


  Perhaps you could advise.

  Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: Front Panel update - Catalog

[Ian Finder]

My preference: KISS principle; keep it simple, stupid.

Set up an HTTP server or a web host that does directory listings, and and
dump all the stuff into a sensible folder structure a-la Bitsavers.

When you get more stuff just file it accordingly.

No need for wikis or CMSes or any of that junk.

Cheers,

- Ian

On Sunday, August 14, 2016, Rod Smallwood 
wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> I'd like to catalog my growing list of  panels  etc. and the
> data I have on them.
>
>Some of course I may never make and others I will.
>
>   A number of you are connected to museums and would have come
> across this issue.
>
>   Perhaps you could advise.
>
>   Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>
>
>

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> fritz_chwo...@web.de
> Sent: 14 August 2016 19:14
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow
> 
> Am 14.08.2016 um 19:38 schrieb Rob Jarratt:
> > Thanks for that link with the files, that looks really useful. Is
> > there a zip of the whole lot anywhere or an FTP site, to make it easier
to
> download?
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob
> 
> 
> Hope it works...
> 
> http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/!komplete_dec-
> stuff_from_os2site.zip

Thanks, I got that!

I noticed you have a Pro folder as well, any chance you could zip that too?

Regards

Rob

Re: Front Panel update - Catalog

[Rod Smallwood]

Thanks that's interesting

Rod

On 14/08/2016 20:04, Ian Finder wrote:

My preference: KISS principle; keep it simple, stupid.

Set up an HTTP server or a web host that does directory listings, and and
dump all the stuff into a sensible folder structure a-la Bitsavers.

When you get more stuff just file it accordingly.

No need for wikis or CMSes or any of that junk.

Cheers,

- Ian

On Sunday, August 14, 2016, Rod Smallwood 
wrote:


Hi Guys

 I'd like to catalog my growing list of  panels  etc. and the
data I have on them.

Some of course I may never make and others I will.

   A number of you are connected to museums and would have come
across this issue.

   Perhaps you could advise.

   Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

RE: Front Panel update - Catalog

[Jay West]

I had already offered to host the panels... I just didn't want to create full 
blow web content as that's not my bag.

But if you want just directory listing format - I can do that easily.

J

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod Smallwood
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 2:27 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Front Panel update - Catalog

Thanks that's interesting

Rod

On 14/08/2016 20:04, Ian Finder wrote:
> My preference: KISS principle; keep it simple, stupid.
>
> Set up an HTTP server or a web host that does directory listings, and 
> and dump all the stuff into a sensible folder structure a-la Bitsavers.
>
> When you get more stuff just file it accordingly.
>
> No need for wikis or CMSes or any of that junk.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Ian
>
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016, Rod Smallwood 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>>  I'd like to catalog my growing list of  panels  etc. and 
>> the data I have on them.
>>
>> Some of course I may never make and others I will.
>>
>>A number of you are connected to museums and would have 
>> come across this issue.
>>
>>Perhaps you could advise.
>>
>>Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: Front Panel update - Catalog

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Jay West

> I had already offered to host the panels... I just didn't want to
> create full blow web content

I'd be happy to create some Web V0.1 content for it - similar to my other
simple Web pages, e.g.:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html

Let me know.

Noel

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Ian S. King]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:09 PM, ben  wrote:

> On 8/12/2016 9:15 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2016, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:
>>
>>> It was not enough to have mishandled vms, and killed palm. Now they
>>> want to destroy also what's left of SGI ?
>>> Better I don't say what I'm really thinking...
>>>
>>
>> "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for men of good conscience to
>> remain silent."
>>
>>
>> Apollo, DEC, Compaq, Ericsson, Palm, . . .
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Hewlett-Packard
>>
>>
>> If HP and Microsoft merged, would it put an end to computers?
>>
>
> HP-BOX now runs all the games and windows* too. Ben.
> * Game of upgrading every 9 months.
>
>
Grab all the SGI docs/bits you can, before HP sends them to /dev/null and
404

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Paul Anderson]

Does this mean you don't want to know about the 8 and 11 blue and red
industrial control panels?

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 14/08/2016 12:48, Michael Thompson wrote:
>
>> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 09:20:13 -0400
>>> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove 
>>> Subject: Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels -
>>>  PDP-11
>>>
>>> There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
>>> E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
>>> systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> The RICM has a brown CSI PDP-11/70 front panel.
>>
>> Sheesh!  Its going to take me a while to catalog all that lot!!
>
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[fritz_chwo...@web.de]

Am 14.08.2016 um 21:07 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
fritz_chwo...@web.de
Sent: 14 August 2016 19:14
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

Am 14.08.2016 um 19:38 schrieb Rob Jarratt:

Thanks for that link with the files, that looks really useful. Is
there a zip of the whole lot anywhere or an FTP site, to make it easier

to

download?



Regards



Rob


Hope it works...

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/mirror/os2site/!komplete_dec-
stuff_from_os2site.zip

Thanks, I got that!

I noticed you have a Pro folder as well, any chance you could zip that too?

Regards

Rob



I zipped all so you have it .


Greetings

fritz

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 14/08/2016 21:25, Paul Anderson wrote:

Does this mean you don't want to know about the 8 and 11 blue and red
industrial control panels?

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:



On 14/08/2016 12:48, Michael Thompson wrote:


Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 09:20:13 -0400

From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove 
Subject: Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels -
  PDP-11

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right).

Cheers,
Christian

The RICM has a brown CSI PDP-11/70 front panel.

Sheesh!  Its going to take me a while to catalog all that lot!!

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood



Good Grief ! No I need all the data I can get.
Rod

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Curious Marc]

Would you pictures of it and where it sits in the machine by any chance?
Marc

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> 
> It is a small extra pcb( with hp logo). Both my machines are build in 
> Germany, which is logic because I’m living in the Netherlands and aquired 
> both in Europe.
> So it could be a local modification made by the Boeblingen factory or even HP 
> Netherlands.
> I’m happy with it😉
> 
> -Rik
> 
> Van: Paul Berger

Re: VAX file format conversion

[Paul Koning]

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Douglas Taylor  wrote:
> 
> ...
> Is there a linux program that will do the serial terminal emulation/logging ? 
>  I have a laptop
> that I am using as the console I am thinking of changing it over to Debian 
> Linux.  I was
> using an old Dell Mini but the keys were way to small for typing accurately.

I've used minicom for that.  Seemed to work well. 

paul

RE: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Rik Bos]

Paul,

It is a small extra pcb( with hp logo). Both my machines are build in Germany, 
which is logic because I’m living in the Netherlands and aquired both in Europe.
So it could be a local modification made by the Boeblingen factory or even HP 
Netherlands.
I’m happy with it😉

-Rik

Van: Paul Berger

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Steven M Jones]

On 08/14/2016 13:08, Ian S. King wrote:
> 
> Grab all the SGI docs/bits you can, before HP sends them to /dev/null and
> 404

SGI "retired" their excellent TechPubs system not very long ago when
they outsourced customer support, thereby removing all the docs and
patches that still covered many of the MIPS-based products of the
original company. There are a couple mirrors around in various states of
functionality, the one I've been referring folks to is at
http://techpubs.jurassic.nl, with thanks to Jan-Jaap.

In HP(e)'s defense, they have so far kept an awful lot of DEC and Compaq
material online. Perhaps that's by accident as much as intent, but I'm
not complaining either way... For instance, I was just perusing (and
saving) the DEC Tech Journal from 1991 - 1998, which is archived under
the HP Journal (http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/journal.html) and
alongside the Tandem Systems Review.

--S.

VCF West - news, pictures, videos

[Evan Koblentz]

VCF West last weekend saw more than 1,000 attendees. Huge thank-you to 
everyone!!!


We are processing the videos and will post links here when they're ready.

Meanwhile there are some excellent pictures / articles / etc. already 
online. A few are here:


- TechRepublic (by me): 
[url]http://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/photos-homebrew-cpus-ibm-mainframes-amazing-replicas-and-more-from-vintage-computer-festival-west-xi/[/url]


- TechCrunch's pictures: 
[url]https://techcrunch.com/gallery/how-far-weve-come-the-top-5-retro-gadgets-from-the-vintage-computer-festival/[/url]


- San Jose Mercury News: 
[url]http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_30214923/vintage-computer-festival-west-returns-after-nine-year[/url]


- SD Times: 
[url]http://sdtimes.com/vintage-computer-festival-highlights-decades-history/[/url]


- Bill Deg.'s pictures: [url]http://vintagecomputer.net/VCFWest_2016/[/url]

- Jim S.'s videos: 
[url]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5NK70kdq3-JGwb_8GXFN5SqDtbTKtLi7[/url]


- Same Jim S. has pictures, too: 
[url]https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOpZ5hCd-eBPF69CLb2lCSD3wdU5-3AOG1NeQ4ttwBm8v7kn5zEGwX-AJvFxxWBHg?key=Nl92ek1Lb2V0dWx6cVJocFVEV3FqWUtldVhrMURB[/url]


- Marc V.'s video: 
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bbsgfanbE0&feature=youtu.be[/url]


- Who's this weird-looking dude holding the prototype Apple 1 and taking 
a selfie with Al Alcorn? :)


http://snarc.net/evan_celebration1.jpg

http://snarc.net/evan_alcorn.jpg

Re: Front Panel update - Catalog

[Al Kossow]

On 8/14/16 12:04 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

> No need for wikis or CMSes or any of that junk.
>

Such things are useful, Richard's RSS feed of bitsavers, for example
but they can be added later.

I am a VERY strong believer in keeping the content flat and not dynamically 
served, so that it can be rsynced
exactly as it is stored.

can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[Al Kossow]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172299367709 (kb)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172290512799 (pcb)

I think it may be a Courier. I bought the pcb, which has "C8080" on the sn label
so I'm guessing it's Courier. Quite unusual with build-in modem. Will be dumping
the eproms soon, hopefully some text strings in there. The seller ripped the 
terminals
apart years ago for the 8080s and didn't rember the make/model, only that the 
case was
two-tone.

He got a pretty penny for the crappy probably dead Keytronic foil/foam keyboard 
($80)

Weird thing is it looks like a Lear-Sieger pcb design, with the Molex power 
connectors
and the color/font of the markings on the silk-screen.

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[COURYHOUSE]

Hi Al - if they are  itt courier  was  after my   days of buying scrap 
there.
 
I am looking for the old  green terminals  we used to call green  frogs and 
would scap as  fast as we ended up with them...  now as a  memento some of 
wish we had saved one of the old  evil things...
 
 
also looking  for  ITT asciiscope  with the amber   screen and the acoustic 
coupler on the  top.
 
Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) 
 
 
 
In a message dated 8/14/2016 2:30:04 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
a...@bitsavers.org writes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172299367709  (kb)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172290512799 (pcb)

I think it may be a  Courier. I bought the pcb, which has "C8080" on the sn 
label
so I'm  guessing it's Courier. Quite unusual with build-in modem. Will be  
dumping
the eproms soon, hopefully some text strings in there. The seller  ripped 
the terminals
apart years ago for the 8080s and didn't rember the  make/model, only that 
the case was
two-tone.

He got a pretty penny  for the crappy probably dead Keytronic foil/foam 
keyboard ($80)

Weird  thing is it looks like a Lear-Sieger pcb design, with the Molex 
power  connectors
and the color/font of the markings on the  silk-screen.

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[Al Kossow]

On 8/14/16 2:35 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

> I am looking for the old  green terminals  we used to call green  frogs


we got one a couple years ago

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102716411

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Jules Richardson]

On 08/14/2016 10:59 AM, Al Kossow wrote:

If it's running MS-DOS, you should be able to find/write something to do a raw 
image
dump out the serial port.

That reminds me, I need to image some Rainbow floppies I have.

I would think someone would have already written this in the MS-DOS world.


Indeed. I got as far as hacking something to sector-dump chunks of data 
from the hard disk to floppy, then sneakernetting that across to a modern 
PC for reassembly (~20MB is a little painful, but not too bad, writing to 
one disk while reading from another).


My initial intention was to polish the code a bit and add serial support, 
but that was immediately followed by the thought of "surely someone else 
has done this already?", at which point I'd done what I immediately needed 
to do anyway, and so never did anything more with the code.


If anyone knows of an x86 DOS util which does sector dumps over rs232, I'd 
be interested to hear about it (particularly if the transfer protocol is 
something supported by any old comms program). I do have various '80s-era 
PCs with ST506/412-type drives which could benefit from a backup.


cheers

Jules

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Steve Bez]

Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine tries all
un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing certain
machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of watch it
like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of things
you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or group
paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
IBM?

On Sunday, August 14, 2016, Steven M Jones  wrote:

> On 08/14/2016 13:08, Ian S. King wrote:
> >
> > Grab all the SGI docs/bits you can, before HP sends them to /dev/null and
> > 404
>
> SGI "retired" their excellent TechPubs system not very long ago when
> they outsourced customer support, thereby removing all the docs and
> patches that still covered many of the MIPS-based products of the
> original company. There are a couple mirrors around in various states of
> functionality, the one I've been referring folks to is at
> http://techpubs.jurassic.nl, with thanks to Jan-Jaap.
>
> In HP(e)'s defense, they have so far kept an awful lot of DEC and Compaq
> material online. Perhaps that's by accident as much as intent, but I'm
> not complaining either way... For instance, I was just perusing (and
> saving) the DEC Tech Journal from 1991 - 1998, which is archived under
> the HP Journal (http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/journal.html) and
> alongside the Tandem Systems Review.
>
> --S.
>
>

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile incognito

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[COURYHOUSE]

Yes Al, That is a green  Frog!  Cool!  gladat  least one still 
exists...  I  am in hopes there  is   still in one of  existing in one the aux  
buildings  here... I  should  display  some Courier  stuff.
 
 

the  later model was all while and  had a detachable  keyboard.

 
We had a surplus  electronics dealer  would   try to  sell them to 
unsuspecting college  students as terminals to be used   with DEC  system on 
campus...  as I  remember they   were  for use  with IBM  systems.
 
ITT ASCIISCOPE  was a good old self  contained   ASCII  terminal and modem 
ALL UPPER CASE... in the early 80s  sold them fast   as we  could  get 
them... I  liked   UPPER CASE  TERMINALS   QUICKER  ---LESS  WORK WHEN YOU 
DO 
NOT HAVE TO  SHIFT! 
 
 
 
All the  electronics scrappers and  the  few  of us  that dealt in computer 
stuff  would  go to the ITT  sales...
 
One of my best things was  the palate loads of power cord  that  were new . 
 I  bid and got and sold  to Bill  Godbout...  -  ah the early 80s! I met 
Bill at a computer show in san  Jose as I remember  run by John Craig that 
had  the  59 el Camino  ( I think I have the name right?  correct me!?))
 
I saved I  think 100 figuring that was as  many as we   would  need  for 
awhile...
 
Courier also   had the  contract to   make the  first  McDonalds   point of 
 order   terminals   all of  us  scrapped  lots of those   too  did 
anyone save one?
 
 
You never know what was  going to be at a Courier  scrap sale...  tools, 
pcbs   terminals, cable on  the wood reels...  
 
This was an interesting era and the early  80s I think I hauled  lots  of 
scrap...  at the   end of  79 started  the  business  with  100 bucks and an 
empty  van.   sold  surplus  dg and dec  stuff piecemeal and  some  
interdata and what ever I  could  drag in..
 
Once  I  got the HP-2000 timeshare system that was  the real  game 
changer...  it  put us in the hp parts biz  to support our  own system and then 
83? 
84  became  HP PC dealers  still  sold  2000 and 1000 stuff and designed  
boards  for  them  got into the 3000 line  ...
 
I suspect the  board you have Al , if  courier, with the plug in  modem,   
was  surplused after I was  going to  sales...   all I ever   got there were 
the while  IBM  ones and the green  frogs  the ASCIISCOPEs  that were  
floating around  town may have come surplus   into the market but  just 
slightly before i was going to auctions there or they were  just   some off 
lease stuff   from some of the lease companies that floated  into consumer 
circle  and we would end up buying one  every once in a  while




In a message dated 8/14/2016 2:45:35 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
a...@bitsavers.org writes:



On 8/14/16 2:35 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

> I  am looking for the old  green terminals  we used to call green   frogs


we got one a couple years  ago

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102716411

RE: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Rob Jarratt]

> > I noticed you have a Pro folder as well, any chance you could zip that
too?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> I zipped all so you have it .
> 

Ah, I hadn't actually opened it to look inside and thought it was just the
Rainbow folder. Thank you very much!

Regards

Rob

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[Mark Linimon]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 05:35:21PM -0400, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> we used to call green frogs and would scrap as fast as we ended up
> with them... now as a memento sort of wish we had saved one of the
> old evil things...

Heh, that sounds like the description of the Hazeltine terminals we
were forced to use on a long-ago project.  The vertical hold ... didn't.
It was plus or minus 2.  After using the monsters for an hour or so you
had to go walk outside until your own vertical hold settled down.

I imagine anyone who easily got seasick could never had used them at all.

mcl

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[COURYHOUSE]

Well the  frogs never  were  usable as a async  ASCII  terminal..
for  some reason I think  they were intended  for   IBM... The  white later 
 ones  with detachable large keyboards  definitely   were  for IBM and were 
used  with a   cluster terminal controller  if  memory is  correct...
 
if they were ASCII  were sync  not async?  My  memory escapes me at this  
point except for the fact none  of  us  could use them and we call scrapped 
them! 
 
 
In a message dated 8/14/2016 3:36:00 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
lini...@lonesome.com writes:

Heh,  that sounds like the description of the Hazeltine terminals we
were forced  to use on a long-ago project.  The vertical hold ... didn't.
It was  plus or minus 2.  After using the monsters for an hour or so you
had  to go walk outside until your own vertical hold settled down.

I imagine  anyone who easily got seasick could never had used them at  all.

mcl

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[Karl-Wilhelm Wacker]

Jules:

 If you don't mind doing a little hardware / software:

 I've been using a module from FTDI that 'talks' TTL level RS232 at
baud rate up to / past? 115Kbaud, and 'talks to' USB thumb drives.

Go to digikey / etc, and look at the 'VDRIVE3' from FTDI.

 It does all the grunt work in handling file creation and reading.

Karl Wacker

- Original Message - 
From: "Jules Richardson" 
To: ; "discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and 
Off-Topic Posts" 

Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow



On 08/14/2016 10:59 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
If it's running MS-DOS, you should be able to find/write something to do 
a raw image

dump out the serial port.

That reminds me, I need to image some Rainbow floppies I have.

I would think someone would have already written this in the MS-DOS 
world.


Indeed. I got as far as hacking something to sector-dump chunks of data 
from the hard disk to floppy, then sneakernetting that across to a modern 
PC for reassembly (~20MB is a little painful, but not too bad, writing to 
one disk while reading from another).


My initial intention was to polish the code a bit and add serial support, 
but that was immediately followed by the thought of "surely someone else 
has done this already?", at which point I'd done what I immediately needed 
to do anyway, and so never did anything more with the code.


If anyone knows of an x86 DOS util which does sector dumps over rs232, I'd 
be interested to hear about it (particularly if the transfer protocol is 
something supported by any old comms program). I do have various '80s-era 
PCs with ST506/412-type drives which could benefit from a backup.


cheers

Jules

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[geneb]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Steve Bez wrote:


Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine tries all
un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing certain
machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of watch it
like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of things
you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or group
paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
IBM?



So what dressing goes best with Word Salad?

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[ben]

On 8/14/2016 6:35 PM, geneb wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Steve Bez wrote:


Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine
tries all
un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing
certain
machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of
watch it
like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of
things
you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or group
paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
IBM?



So what dressing goes best with Word Salad?

g.


Banana!
The random monkeys typing on keyboards need feeding again.

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[Al Kossow]

No manufacturer in the proms, just "C-8080 KEYBOARD/DISPLAY TERMINAL" in the 
setup code.
The modem appears to be Bell 202 1200 half-duplex.

On 8/14/16 2:31 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

> I think it may be a Courier. I bought the pcb, which has "C8080" on the sn 
> label
>

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Fred Cisin]

Could you get that translated into English, please?


On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Steve Bez wrote:


Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine tries all
un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing certain
machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of watch it
like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of things
you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or group
paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
IBM?

k

Re: Imaging and Emulating Rainbow

[jim stephens]

I downloaded the site and the zip file today (in the last 6 hours or so, 
Sunday PDT US  time, I saw your don't mirror warning after i'd taken a 
lot, so continued.


many thanks for the stuff there.  I had some things from the profolder, 
but not the floppy images.


thanks
jim

On 8/14/2016 3:17 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:

I noticed you have a Pro folder as well, any chance you could zip that

too?

Regards

Rob



I zipped all so you have it .


Ah, I hadn't actually opened it to look inside and thought it was just the
Rainbow folder. Thank you very much!

Regards

Rob

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Adrian Stoness]

whats really a shame is our economic system requiring a growth rate of X
percentage no mater how much money u make like a multi billion dallor
company sees 500mill growth from the yr befor  but its shy 2% of what was
expected stock tanks yet it made 500million more in proffit thats whats
wrong what caused the dec take over by compaq and then hp and now this.
messed... and siemes and all these other companies doing this.. comcast
caugh caugh...

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> Could you get that translated into English, please?
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Steve Bez wrote:
>
> Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
>> continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine tries
>> all
>> un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing certain
>> machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of watch it
>> like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
>> after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of
>> things
>> you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or group
>> paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
>> IBM?
>>
> k
>

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 07:43:21PM +0100, Rod Smallwood wrote:
> Thank you all very much. I'm collating all of this most useful data.

I think I have sent you this:

http://pdp8.se/slask/front_paneler

Not complete but it has som odd color variations and OEM version. It has 
the chocolaty csis1170.jpg for instance.

/P

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 15/08/2016 03:25, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 07:43:21PM +0100, Rod Smallwood wrote:

Thank you all very much. I'm collating all of this most useful data.

I think I have sent you this:

http://pdp8.se/slask/front_paneler

Not complete but it has som odd color variations and OEM version. It has
the chocolaty csis1170.jpg for instance.

/P

Hi
  Most interesting.
Thanks
Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/14/2016 06:19 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> Could you get that translated into English, please?

Sure, Fred:

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod
tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim
veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea
commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate
velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint
occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt
mollit anim id est laborum."

i.e., it's just filler text to get through someone's SPAM filter.

--Chuck

Re: VAX file format conversion

[Richard Loken]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2016, Peter Coghlan wrote:


If you are importing files into VMS, you need to become familiar with the
EXCHANGE command.



I was a bit puzzled by this.  I thought the main use of EXCHANGE was to
to copy files to or from disk or tape volumes which are not in a native
VMS format but are in a format native to some other DEC operating system.


On vms say something like this:

$ help analyze
(pay attention to the parts about /rms and /fdl)

$ help convert

build and and edit an fdl file and then say something like:

$ convert /fdl=foo.fdl foo.old foo.new

sigh.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Adrian Stoness]

should work fine u got rca and vga on that card might not be colour but it
should work

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Ali]

"should work fine u got rca and vga on that card might not be colour but it
should work"

Nope. Looks like a CGA card. It may also run in monochrome mode if you set the 
correct dip switches. The composite output can be used w a std TV set.

5150/5151 Video Card??

[Win Heagy]

Does anyone have any info on this video card?  I wasn't able to find much.

https://imgur.com/a/TjIzL

The card came in a 5150, but whatever monitor they were using did not
come with the 5150.  I'd like to see if it's possible to use this card
with a 5151.

Thanks,
Win

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Adrian Stoness wrote:

should work fine u got rca and vga on that card might not be colour but it
should work


??

What card is that?

The IBM 5150 was the PC.

The IBM 5151 was the IBm green screen "Monochrome" monitor.  The card for 
that ("Monichrome Display and Printer Card"), and the various clone MDA 
cards, did NOT have RCA, and were NOT at composite video rates. 
(18.43?KHz horizontal, 50Hz? vertical)
It had a DE9 for the monichrome monitor and a DB25 for printer ("Cenronics 
compatible parallel")
Hercules' video card was an imitation of the MDP, with more RAM, and 
monochrome 720x350 graphics.



On the other hand, the CGA card did have RCA composite video (close to 
RS170), and "RGB" (DE9).   About 15.75KHz? 
It was NOT at the correct frequency for the 5151 monitor!



IBM did not even have sufficient protection in their circuits if you 
plugged a monitor into the wrong card, or set the video card to 
incompatible frequencies!



The IBM EGA card had TWO RCA jacks, but neither were composite output.



What is RCA and VGA??

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/14/2016 06:22 PM, Win Heagy wrote:
> Does anyone have any info on this video card?  I wasn't able to find
> much.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/TjIzL
> 
> The card came in a 5150, but whatever monitor they were using did
> not come with the 5150.  I'd like to see if it's possible to use this
> card with a 5151.

This looks to be your card:

https://th99.bl4ckb0x.de/v/U-Z/50348.htm

In which case, no, it can't be used with a 5151.  Wrong scan
frequencies, among other things.

Monochrome cards should still be pretty common in the wild.  One
distinguishing characteristic is that they usually feature a DB-25F
connector for a printer port.

The exceptions being few, such as the do-both-CGA-and-MDA ATI Small Wonder.

--Chuck

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/14/2016 08:04 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

> What is RCA and VGA??


Didn't RCA make computers?  Don't know who VGA was, though.  Vertical
Gizmo Authority?

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Fred Cisin]

My apologies for my previous post; I have not yet received the original 
post.  Thank you, Matt, for having quoted it.


It does, indeed look like an aftermarket CGA.
The DE connector on there is 9 pin (see solder side), and is probably CGA 
RGB.  (NOT VGA!!)


The "real" OEM IBM CGA does not have that 4PST dip switch block.
That MIGHT be significant.
The "real" OEM IBM CGA also has a 4 pin berg connector, for use with an RF 
modulator (or the 5155 internal composite monitor), and a 6 pin connectoor 
for light pen.



If that board IS CGA (15.75KHz?), then do NOT connect a 5151 to it!
The 5151 is expecting MDA frequency, not CGA.
If that board is CGA, you can connect the RCA to the composite (yellow) 
input of a TV. VCR, or other RS170 device.



OTOH, it might be possible that that switch block might do various things, 
even permitting MDA frequencies?

(The IBM EGA included a similar switch block)





On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Matt Patoray wrote:


Looks to be a later 8 bit CGA card, non IBM.

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 14, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Win Heagy  wrote:

Does anyone have any info on this video card?  I wasn't able to find much.

https://imgur.com/a/TjIzL

The card came in a 5150, but whatever monitor they were using did not
come with the 5150.  I'd like to see if it's possible to use this card
with a 5151.

Thanks,
Win

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[John Willis]

should work fine u got rca and vga on that card might not be colour but it
> should work
>

This board is not likely to be VGA. The card says "CGA-IV", so it's likely
a DE-9 RGB connector.
An FCC ID search reveals it to be a Chinese product, from Yangtech Electric
Co. Ltd.; the FCC action date
is September 1986.

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Matt Patoray]

Looks to be a later 8 bit CGA card, non IBM.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Win Heagy  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any info on this video card?  I wasn't able to find much.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/TjIzL
> 
> The card came in a 5150, but whatever monitor they were using did not
> come with the 5150.  I'd like to see if it's possible to use this card
> with a 5151.
> 
> Thanks,
> Win

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Fred Cisin]

That one has a lightpen connector, which his dorsn't.
Not usually important, but it might have other differences, such as 
different functions for the switchrs.


There were some MDA boards without printer.

Plugging 5151 into CGA could damage the 5151.
Even plugging it into EGA with wrong switch settings could.





On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote:


On 08/14/2016 06:22 PM, Win Heagy wrote:

Does anyone have any info on this video card?  I wasn't able to find
much.

https://imgur.com/a/TjIzL

The card came in a 5150, but whatever monitor they were using did
not come with the 5150.  I'd like to see if it's possible to use this
card with a 5151.


This looks to be your card:

https://th99.bl4ckb0x.de/v/U-Z/50348.htm

In which case, no, it can't be used with a 5151.  Wrong scan
frequencies, among other things.

Monochrome cards should still be pretty common in the wild.  One
distinguishing characteristic is that they usually feature a DB-25F
connector for a printer port.

The exceptions being few, such as the do-both-CGA-and-MDA ATI Small Wonder.

--Chuck

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Steve Bez]

You must be as crazy as listened too yers English tea cheers who Z HAS you
back in nineteenth century standing ON words where you big your LiVV,leper
key Id boss shrink biz kits,yeah?
IBM,the company 5150-Apple NY
No states.
The end
Monkey swing in tree,no nana aka pied pipe York key hill March back hare
rabbit rabbit punch tune eight shun key of C...mug.

On Monday, August 15, 2016, Adrian Stoness  wrote:

> whats really a shame is our economic system requiring a growth rate of X
> percentage no mater how much money u make like a multi billion dallor
> companyyo sees 500mill growth from the yr befor  but its shy 2% of what was
> expected stock tanks yet it made 500million more in proffit thats whats
> wrong what caused the dec take over by compaq and then hp and now this.
> messed... and siemes and all these other companies doing this.. comcast
> caugh caugh...
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Fred Cisin  > wrote:
>
> > Could you get that translated into English, please?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 14 Aug 2016, Steve Bez wrote:
> >
> > Have ideas but inflames the issue as those who might know where or what
> >> continue misinterpreted slang as belief from persons when machine tries
> >> all
> >> un mannered ways too oppo ate ,have sat for few years when knowing
> certain
> >> machine yells like that causing this reaction up too the point of watch
> it
> >> like Telly is actually unknown as herds follow alng so had too give up
> >> after trying chat as goes berserk in convinced non yells are from of
> >> things
> >> you would say as nots with non intentions how then lay it a self or
> group
> >> paranoi bash out of oo,dear there's lots of nasty people etc...
> >> IBM?
> >>
> > k
> >
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile incognito

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Steve Bez]

My English commuter wrote that,I know you won't believe me whatever you
do,but Latin 3 isn't a Television man?
Why ?cape Rozzetta,no GCHQ
Chess us.
Cards got trump ?
Ed


On Monday, August 15, 2016, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 08/14/2016 06:19 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> > Could you get that translated into English, please?
>
> Sure, Fred:
>
> "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod
> tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim
> veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea
> commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate
> velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint
> occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt
> mollit anim id est laborum."
>
> i.e., it's just filler text to get through someone's SPAM filter.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile incognito

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[Al Kossow]

On 8/14/16 10:14 PM, Steve Bez wrote:

My English commuter wrote that


Can someone remove this git off the list, please?