Re: Commodore C2N datasette belts (was Re: Classics long overdue a Boot.)

[drlegendre .]

@ All

I'm working on a deal for a batch of these.. so hold on to your hats /
wallets for a little while, and we should have something to work with.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Jason T  wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Ethan Dicks 
> wrote:
> > Thanks for your offer of assistance.  That seems to be a very good way
> > to do it.  Write me back off-line and I'm willing to throw money at
> > you for a dozen belts or so and take what I don't need to VCFmw this
> > Fall (if folks on the list don't snap them up first).  I'm sure
> > there'll be folks in Chicago who want C2N belts.
>
> For sure, especially with our Commodore-heavy attendance.  I know the
> cassette drive in my PET2001 is shot.  For the C2N, I just grab them
> off the big pile until I find a working one :)
>
> j
>

RE: Monster 6502

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent
> Hilpert
> Sent: 29 May 2016 02:50
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

> Subject: Re: Monster 6502
> 
> On 2016-May-28, at 6:22 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
> >
> > Could someone also clarify what is meant by "gates" in this sense? Are
> > we talking about the gates (G) of a FET, as in Gate, Drain and Source
> > - or are we referring to the composite logic gates (NAND, etc.), built
> > up of multiple bipolar - or MOS - transistors?
> 
> Yes, they're talking FET gates, the internal registers would operate under
the
> same basic principle as DRAM does.
> 
> Other early microprocs used dynamic registers, I forget which, perhaps
others
> can list them.
> 
> Far from the first time a processor had dynamic registers.
> I've been told that the IBM 709 used inductive (rather than capacitive)
storage
> for the main registers.

Many early computers used "Dynamic" store for their registers. Certainly the
Manchester Baby and Mk1 computers used Williams Tubes which need continual
refresh. Not sure about the IBM 701 which used also used Williams Tubes for
Main Store. Many early computers used either Williams Tubes or Delay Line
type store, even for main registers. Pegasus was built like this

Dave

RE: Mystery IBM processor

[Malcolm Macleod]

Mike / Dave / Paul,

Thanks for the responses.  It does look a lot like the processor photo on Jim 
Austin's IBM 3084 page.

I can't see any FRU numbers on any of the modules, so this is probably as far 
as we can go in chasing it down for the time being.  I might be able to get 
some more clues from the markings on the shipping case. 

Malcolm.

Re: Monster 6502

[Mike Ross]

On May 29, 2016 2:44 PM, "Noel Chiappa"  wrote:
>
> > From: drlegendre
>
> > Gawd, what a lovely piece of work that man hath wrought!
>
> I love the term he invented for it: "dis-integrated circuit"! :-)
>
>
> Good FAQ page here:
>
>   http://www.monster6502.com/
>
> My favourite entry:
>
> "Q: Are you nuts?
> A: Probably."
>
> Clearly a person after our own hearts! :-)
>
> Noel

I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire CPU as discrete
components on an even larger size... there were racks of the thing; it took
up most of a room.

But I can't find the link

Mike

Re: PC/AT "power good" problems

[Richard Cini]

Chuck –

My wording was probably less than precise, but “never comes out of 
reset” means that it never POSTs. Nothing on the screen. No cursor. No boot 
message. No BASIC. Keyboard does reset though (I see the three LEDs blink on, 
then off). I watched for a good 5 minutes before giving up. It’s been a long 
time since I worked with this machine but I’m pretty sure there is a sign-on 
banner or something.

For comparison, I pulled my old original PC (64k/256k mobo) with 
expansion unit and 10mb HD and it took an excruciatingly long time to boot, but 
it did have a blinking underline cursor on the screen while it thought about 
booting.

Rich

--
Rich Cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

On 5/28/16, 10:30 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Chuck Guzis" 
 wrote:

>On 05/28/2016 07:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
>> Bear in mind that the PC AT BIOS during POST goes through some
>> rather arcane protected-mode memory tests, using the CMOS "why did I
>> get here" byte when coming out of reset.
>
>...which reminds me--check the status of the "programmed reset" line
>coming from the keyboard controller.
>
>--Chuck
>

Re: Monster 6502

[dwight]

DRam is technically no slower to read than static. It is the house
keeping functions that cost time. Typically the floating nets are
designed to hold data for over 2 milliseconds. At todays higher
speed processors, the refresh time is hardly noticed.
As for the processors of this time, the primary concern was cost.
Not so much silicon size but yield. Bigger ICs had lower yields,
raising cost. Today yields are much better.
Also, in the days of the 6502, complementary CMOS was not only
expensive, it was slow. Making extra logic and gates required more
power as every data inversion required a pull up resistance in single
process designs.
Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Mike Ross 

Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:13:07 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Monster 6502

On May 29, 2016 2:44 PM, "Noel Chiappa"  wrote:
>
> > From: drlegendre
>
> > Gawd, what a lovely piece of work that man hath wrought!
>
> I love the term he invented for it: "dis-integrated circuit"! :-)
>
>
> Good FAQ page here:
>
>   http://www.monster6502.com/
>
> My favourite entry:
>
> "Q: Are you nuts?
> A: Probably."
>
> Clearly a person after our own hearts! :-)
>
> Noel

I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire CPU as discrete
components on an even larger size... there were racks of the thing; it took
up most of a room.

But I can't find the link

Mike

Re: PC/AT "power good" problems

[dwight]

Power to a load tester is not the same as power in a system.
It is likely that one of the other voltages, other than 5V is
being loaded down with a shorted tantalum capacitor in
the system.
I doubt there is a problem with the supply.
Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Richard Cini 

Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 4:16:15 AM
To: CCTalk
Subject: Re: PC/AT "power good" problems

Chuck –

My wording was probably less than precise, but “never comes out of 
reset” means that it never POSTs. Nothing on the screen. No cursor. No boot 
message. No BASIC. Keyboard does reset though (I see the three LEDs blink on, 
then off). I watched for a good 5 minutes before giving up. It’s been a long 
time since I worked with this machine but I’m pretty sure there is a sign-on 
banner or something.

For comparison, I pulled my old original PC (64k/256k mobo) with 
expansion unit and 10mb HD and it took an excruciatingly long time to boot, but 
it did have a blinking underline cursor on the screen while it thought about 
booting.

Rich

--
Rich Cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

On 5/28/16, 10:30 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Chuck Guzis" 
 wrote:

>On 05/28/2016 07:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>
>> Bear in mind that the PC AT BIOS during POST goes through some
>> rather arcane protected-mode memory tests, using the CMOS "why did I
>> get here" byte when coming out of reset.
>
>...which reminds me--check the status of the "programmed reset" line
>coming from the keyboard controller.
>
>--Chuck
>

Re: PC/AT "power good" problems

[Dale H. Cook]

At 10:30 AM 5/29/2016, Dwight wrote:

>Power to a load tester is not the same as power in a system.

That is why I never use a load tester. I built a system with a set of adaptors 
that lets me measure voltage and current, and check for ripple and noise with 
an oscilloscope, for each output of a power supply while it is supplying the 
target system.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: PC/AT "power good" problems

[Richard Cini]

Thanks guys. Looks like some detailed work to do on the mobo. 

Anyone want to buy a lost tester cheap?

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Dale H. Cook  wrote:
> 
> At 10:30 AM 5/29/2016, Dwight wrote:
> 
>> Power to a load tester is not the same as power in a system.
> 
> That is why I never use a load tester. I built a system with a set of 
> adaptors that lets me measure voltage and current, and check for ripple and 
> noise with an oscilloscope, for each output of a power supply while it is 
> supplying the target system.
> 
> Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
> Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
> http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 
> 

Re: AT&T 5620 (Blit/DMD) software

[Al Kossow]

"Shattered" has been working on this. I assume you know about his SIMH simulator
and how he's getting frustrated with nothing being available.

http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=105737&Searchpage=1&Main=7894&Words=shattered&Search=true#Post105737

On 5/28/16 2:15 PM, Seth Morabito wrote:
> Hey folks,
> 
> I recently picked up an AT&T 5620 terminal, the WE32K version of the
> Blit, and I've been tracking down software to run on my 3B2.
> 
> It looks like there are two separate packages which provide the
> 'layers' windowing system:
> 
> 1. A package named "AT&T Windowing Utilities", on one floppy disk.
> 
> 2. A package named "DMD Core Utilities 2.0", on a set of three floppy
>disks.
> 
> The DMD Core Utilities set comes with a lot of demos and source code.
> It installs 'layers' as /usr/dmd/bin/layers.
> 
> The one-disk AT&T Windowing Utilities has no demos, and installs
> 'layers' as /usr/bin/layers.
> 
> Can anyone elaborate on the difference between these two? Are
> they both appropriate to use with the 5620, and should I favor
> the DMD Core Utilities over the AT&T Windowing Utilities? Or
> are they both needed?
> 
> Confused and lacking documentation,
> 
> -Seth
> 

Re: Monster 6502

[Liam Proven]

On 29 May 2016 at 11:13, Mike Ross  wrote:
> I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire CPU as discrete
> components on an even larger size... there were racks of the thing; it took
> up most of a room.
>
> But I can't find the link


http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/

...?

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Mystery IBM processor

[Jon Elson]

On 05/28/2016 05:45 PM, Malcolm Macleod wrote:

Mike / Dave / Paul,

Thanks for the responses.  It does look a lot like the processor photo on Jim 
Austin's IBM 3084 page.


Wow, this has to have cost IBM $250K or more.  Maybe MUCH 
more, as it is the WHOLE processor system.
I wonder if anybody is still running any of these and needs 
spares?


Jon

Re: Monster 6502

[Jon Elson]

On 05/29/2016 04:13 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire 
CPU as discrete components on an even larger size... there 
were racks of the thing; it took up most of a room. But I 
can't find the link Mike 
There's a guy in Germany who did one, using all SMT parts.  
Here's another (at least I think this one is different):

http://www.megaprocessor.com/homebrew.html

I did this Google search and found pages of links to such 
projects :

homebrew discrete transistor CPU

Jon

Re: Monster 6502

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-May-29, at 2:13 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
> On May 29, 2016 2:44 PM, "Noel Chiappa"  wrote:
>> 
>>> From: drlegendre
>> 
>>> Gawd, what a lovely piece of work that man hath wrought!
>> 
>> I love the term he invented for it: "dis-integrated circuit"! :-)
>> 
>> 
>> Good FAQ page here:
>> 
>>  http://www.monster6502.com/
>> 
>> My favourite entry:
>> 
>> "Q: Are you nuts?
>> A: Probably."
>> 
>> Clearly a person after our own hearts! :-)
>> 
>>Noel
> 
> I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire CPU as discrete
> components on an even larger size... there were racks of the thing; it took
> up most of a room.
> 
> But I can't find the link

This one?:
http://megaprocessor.com/index.html

Re: Front panel switches - what did they do?

[Lionel Johnson]

On 28/05/2016 11:27 AM, Paul Anderson wrote:

Thanks Lionel,

You just helped me start a new list!



Hi Paul, and others
 You have stimulated me to drag out a couple more useful programs - 
basic stuff,  I used
them to demo to students, and get them started. Also the practical side 
to check console printers and screens.
I have retired, and left these systems behind, but they were marvellous 
gear.


 CONSOLE OUTPUT PROGRAM
 --
012737  000104  177566  A:  MOV #104, OUTPUT
012700  10  MOV #10, R0
005300  B:  DEC R0
001376  BNE B
000770  BR A

THIS PROGRAM OUTPUTS A CHAR TO THE CONSOLE. THE REGISTER
CAN BE CHANGED TO TEST ANOTHER DEVICE.

KEYBOARD ECHO TEST
--
105737  177560   LOOP:   TSTB @#177560
100375   BPL LOOP
013700  177562   MOV INPUT,R0
010037  177566   MOV R0,OUTPUT
000770   BR LOOP

THIS PROGRAM WAITS FOR A KEY DOWN, THEN OUTPUTS IT BACK TO
THE TERMINAL PRINT BUFFER.

   FULL DISPLAY EXERCISER
   --

013700  177562   START: MOV @#177562,R0
012701  000124  MOV #80,R1
105737  177564   A: TSTB @#177564
100375  BPL A
010037  177566  MOV R0,@#177566
005301  DEC R1
001371  BNE A
105737  177564   B: TSTB @#177564
100375  BPL B
012737  15  177566  MOV #15,@#177566
105737  177564   C: TSTB @#177564
100375  BPL C
012737  12  177566  MOV #12,@#177566
000750  BR START

THIS PROGRAM MONITORS KBD IN AND REPEATS THE CHARACTER TO
THE SCREEN UNTIL THE NEXT KEY IS PRESSED.

TO TEST LA36 ETC LINE 2 READS 012701  000204   MOV #132, R1

   TO DISABLE CACHE - SLOWS PROGRAM DOWN
   -
012737  14  177746  MOV #14, CCR
000137  XX  JMP @ A ( XX IS A: ADDRESS)

Lionel.

Re: TI Professional Computer (TIPC) Service Manual?

[Al Kossow]

On 5/28/16 1:42 PM, Martin Peters wrote:

> The TIPC is an early, not really compatible clone of the IBM PC 5150. I
> wonder if I need to do some reengineering and/or disassembling or if
> there is a service manual out there.
> 

I bought a copy last year. It doesn't look like I've scanned it yet but I have
seen it withing the last 6 months, so I'll try to find it.

TU58 yet one more time.

[Mattis Lind]

I have been fiddling with a TU58-EX device, dual TU58 drives in a small box.

The capstans is replaced. I used silicone tubing which I glued on and then
sanded down a bit. PVC tubing in a  size that would fit seems to be
unavailable in Sweden.

The two capstans were a little bit different in diameter at first. Drive
one closer to 17 mm but drive zero around 16.5mm. Drive zero read 5 of 8
tapes (two more tapes had belt breakage). One tape gave "Invalid Directory"
in RT11 the two other gave "Error reading directory". On drive one just one
tape was readable.

So the decision was to get closer to the nominal 5/8" (which I read was the
OD in a post by Tony Duell). With both drives at 16mm drive zero still read
the same amount of tapes and drive one read the same tapes plus one more
which was not readable on drive zero.

Highly annoying. So I decided to read more on the TU58. The spec says that
the bit time is 41.2 us. When I measure I get reading of between 42 and 44
us. (Yes I should have measured before trimming the capstans). So now the
tape is too slow. Although the OD is slightly above the nominal.

Is silicone tubing too soft?

Having been working on a project to recover a tape from a Zilog S8000
machine together with AJ (http://mightyframe.blogspot.se/) I just thought
that it might be possible to read the TU58 and HP DC100 tapes with some
other hardware doing post processing in a regular Linux box.

Would it be possible to use a Floppy Tape (QIC-117) tape drive to read
them? It appears that the tapes are not identical in size. A DC1000 is 0.25
" while the DC100 is 0.15". The capstan position would also differ. Are
there other physical differences that I am not aware off?

Since the TU58 drive is not able to format a tape it could be useful to
also write a new tape with TU58 format. But I guess that there are
difference in coercivity between different tapes.

I have read that Rik Bos successfully converted HP85 drives to take DC1000
tapes by modifying the capstan and changing the write current.

Before I go ahead buying some old Colorado T1000 drive dirt cheap I just
like to ask if this project is doomed because of whatever reason.

/Mattis

NEC ProSpeed 386

[Chris Hanson]

I just acquired an NEC ProSpeed 386 portable from WeirdStuff.

http://imgur.com/a/vUTvd 

The system boots fine off floppy, and after running the setup program—that can 
still be downloaded from NEC America’s FTP site!—I was able to boot DOS and 
Windows 3.11 from the internal HD that WeirdStuff didn’t think it had. The 
machine is actually quite zippy once booted too, it’s obviously a desktop 
replacement, it even has a goddamn mechanical keyboard!

Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be all that much useful information about 
this system online. Does anyone have any pointers?

What I’d like to do most is get into it and down to the motherboard, since the 
CMOS battery obviously needs replacing, and I could see whether there’s any 
damage that needs to be cleaned up. I tried to disassemble it this morning but 
unfortunately I couldn’t find any release latches and the plastic is old enough 
to be a little brittle so I didn’t want to work it too hard.

As for what else I’ll do with it, I might consider replacing the drive with a 
larger one (or a larger CF card via an IDE/CF adaptor), adding the 8MB memory 
upgrade if I could ever find it, and adding an 80387 if I could ever find one 
and if there’s actually a socket for it. And if there’s any sort of network 
card for its weird-ass expansion slots of course I’d be all over that.

I also expect the battery is quite sketchy at this point, being a 
discharged-for-decades NiCd. The system won’t boot without the battery pack 
attached though, so I’ll have to figure out how to bypass that. (I expect I can 
just install some sort of jumper at the battery port, or wire in a bypass.) And 
the system ports are obscured by the battery pack too.

Nonetheless, not bad for well under the $60 sticker price when you consider 
that they also threw in the Griffin iMate I was also getting for that price!

  -- Chris

Re: TI Professional Computer (TIPC) Service Manual?

[Martin Peters]

Hi Al!

Al Kossow:
>
> On 5/28/16 1:42 PM, Martin Peters wrote:
> 
> > The TIPC is an early, not really compatible clone of the IBM PC 5150. I
> > wonder if I need to do some reengineering and/or disassembling or if
> > there is a service manual out there.
> 
> I bought a copy last year. It doesn't look like I've scanned it yet but I have
> seen it withing the last 6 months, so I'll try to find it.

Thanks. Technical Documentation of the TIPC seems to be rare.

greetings,
Martin
-- 
Martin Peters
mar...@shackspace.de

Re: TU58 yet one more time.

[Al Kossow]

On 5/29/16 10:03 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:

> Would it be possible to use a Floppy Tape (QIC-117) tape drive to read
> them?

No. The heads are movable on floppy tapes, and the format is completely 
different.

If you send me your address, I can send you a chunk of tubing that Brad Parker 
and I
have used to repair the drive wheels.

Re: TU58 yet one more time.

[Mark J. Blair]

My first attempt to use silicone tubing to repair my TU58 rollers was also 
unsuccessful. Maybe the material I used is too soft? Your experience suggests 
to me that I should hook up an oscilloscope to measure bit timing, and then 
adjust the roller composition and diameter to arrive close to the correct bit 
length.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: TU58 yet one more time.

[Al Kossow]

On 5/29/16 11:34 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
> My first attempt to use silicone tubing to repair my TU58 rollers was also 
> unsuccessful. Maybe the material I used is too soft? Your experience suggests 
> to me that I should hook up an oscilloscope to measure bit timing, and then 
> adjust the roller composition and diameter to arrive close to the correct bit 
> length.
> 
> 

dug this up from the cctlk archive


--

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23485
It just says "norprene A-60-F" the outside.  It measures 3/8" I.D.

I think other's have said 7/16" i.d., but I could not find that.  I know I 
bought it from US Plastics and it's A-60-F.
You have to buy 10' but its not very expensive.

-brad

Re: TU58 yet one more time.

[Mattis Lind]

2016-05-29 20:10 GMT+02:00 Al Kossow :

>
>
> On 5/29/16 10:03 AM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> > Would it be possible to use a Floppy Tape (QIC-117) tape drive to read
> > them?
>
> No. The heads are movable on floppy tapes, and the format is completely
> different.
>

Yes. I am aware of that. But that also means that the head can be moved
into the spot where the information is recorded. My quick reading of the
QIC-117 spec give that the one control the drive with a quite weird
interface consisting of the STEP, TRACK ZERO and INDEX lines.

The READ DATA is supposed to be the actual flux transitions. Likewise is
WRITE DATA.

What is not yet clear to me is whether that the QIC-117 drive is rather
dumb and leaves most work to the FDC or if it includes a lot of logic to
handle the reading process.
http://www.qic.org/html/standards/11x.x/qic117j.pdf

The QIC36 drive that was used to recover the information stored on the
Zilog S8000 tapes is completely stupid. The read data just reflected the
flux transitions which AJ recorded using a logic analyzer so that it was
possible to decode the MFM data stream in software. The tracks of course
also differed since the QIC36 drive was 9 track while the DEI drive used
for recording the S8000 tapes used four (fixed) heads. But nevertheless it
was possible to recover the entire tape thanks to the circuitry that AJ
devised to control the head position. Using a more modern SCSI drive it
will not be possible to read these tapes since they only handle GCR
encoding (as does QIC02 drives)


Could this kind of operation be done with a QIC-117. I.e. is the drive
stupid enough? Reading more of the spec may indicate that "segment" concept
might be the culprit that makes it non-feasible. It could be that the drive
keeps track of the segments somehow.

Of course there is always the possibility of "hacking" the drive. But then
it would help with schematics which is probably not available for these
quite "modern" things.

All input appreciated!


> If you send me your address, I can send you a chunk of tubing that Brad
> Parker and I
> have used to repair the drive wheels.
>

That would be very nice. Send you a message off-list.

/Mattis

RE: TU58 yet one more time.

[Paul Birkel]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 3:00 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: TU58 yet one more time.

On 5/29/16 11:34 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
> My first attempt to use silicone tubing to repair my TU58 rollers was also
unsuccessful. Maybe the material I used is too soft? Your experience
suggests to me that I should hook up an oscilloscope to measure bit timing,
and then adjust the roller composition and diameter to arrive close to the
correct bit length.
> 
> 

dug this up from the cctlk archive


--

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23485
It just says "norprene A-60-F" the outside.  It measures 3/8" I.D.

I think other's have said 7/16" i.d., but I could not find that.  I know I
bought it from US Plastics and it's A-60-F.
You have to buy 10' but its not very expensive.

-brad

-

"A-60-F" would be here?
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23886  $26.95 for 10 foot
length.  Ouch!

3/8" ID x 5/8" OD x 1/8" Wall TygonR A-60-F Hot Food & Beverage Tubing

-

Re: TU58 yet one more time.

[Mattis Lind]

2016-05-29 20:34 GMT+02:00 Mark J. Blair :

> My first attempt to use silicone tubing to repair my TU58 rollers was also
> unsuccessful. Maybe the material I used is too soft? Your experience
> suggests to me that I should hook up an oscilloscope to measure bit timing,
> and then adjust the roller composition and diameter to arrive close to the
> correct bit length.
>

It might be too soft. But the capstan doesn't look to flat when the tape is
inserted. So I am not sure.  Pin 5 on the 8085 has the read data and pin 7
is the strobe data.

Another question is how sensitive it is to speed variations. Apparently it
is. Or my tapes are bad. But I cannot tell for sure since I have no working
reference.

The encoding scheme is rather simple. And decoding is done by some analogue
electronics doing integration. Since it is a fixed capacitor value used it
can be problematic.

/Mattis



>
>
> --
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
>
>

Re: AT&T 5620 (Blit/DMD) software

[Seth Morabito]

If I may follow up to my own post here, I've done some experiments,
and made some discoveries.

I first installed "DMD Core Utilities 2.0". The demo programs all work
beautifully in stand-alone mode (not running under Layers).  But when
I try to fire up /usr/dmd/bin/layers, the 3B2 crashes _hard_.  It does
not like the version of 'layers' installed by DMD Core.

So, I installed "AT&T Windowing Utilities" from SVR3.1, and confirmed
that both of them can live together side-by-side, since they write
their files to different locations. I was able to run /usr/bin/layers
without any problem. All of the programs, utilities, and demos
installed by "DMD Core Utilities 2.0" function fine under the version
of layers installed by "AT&T Windowing Utilities".

See: http://imgur.com/QlNOIBf

So, that's my current setup. I run /usr/bin/layers, and then run the
apps from /usr/dmd/bin


-Seth

Re: AT&T 5620 (Blit/DMD) software

[Seth Morabito]

* On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 08:18:13AM -0700, Al Kossow  
wrote:
> "Shattered" has been working on this. I assume you know about his SIMH 
> simulator
> and how he's getting frustrated with nothing being available.

Absolutely, he's been contributing patches back to my 3B2 simulator project.

His work is very impressive, I hope we can figure out how to get the 3B2
simulator working in a state where we can actually run layers on it.

-Seth

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[wulfman]

http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:

http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view
--
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.


Did you have anything to say about it?
Or are you just dumping a URL on us?

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 5/29/2016 7:02 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view 


--
The contents of this e-mail and any 
attachments are intended solely for 
the use of the named addressee(s) and 
may contain confidential and/or 
privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use, copying, 
disclosure, or distribution of the 
contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by the sender and may be 
unlawful. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete this e-mail.


Did you have anything to say about it?
Or are you just dumping a URL on us?


That might be confidential, Fred.

Wulf: this link would have worked as well :
"http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century";


Tangent: is it true as written that 
*all*   "teletypes speak 5-bit ITA2 code 
"? 



- J.

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[wulfman]

I figured some of you might have had an interest. Excuse me if i was wrong.



On 5/29/2016 5:02 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
>> http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view
>>
>> -- 
>> The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely
>> for the use of the named
>> addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> information. Any unauthorized use,
>> copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail
>> is strictly prohibited by
>> the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please notify the sender
>> immediately and delete this e-mail.
>
> Did you have anything to say about it?
> Or are you just dumping a URL on us?
>
>
>


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.

Re: Monster 6502

[Mike Ross]

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 3:42 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> On 05/29/2016 04:13 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure I read of someone who was implementing an entire CPU as discrete
>> components on an even larger size... there were racks of the thing; it took
>> up most of a room. But I can't find the link Mike
>
> There's a guy in Germany who did one, using all SMT parts.  Here's another
> (at least I think this one is different):
> http://www.megaprocessor.com/homebrew.html
>
> I did this Google search and found pages of links to such projects :
> homebrew discrete transistor CPU

Megaprocessor! That's the one I was thinking of. Barking mad. Thanks!

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:

I figured some of you might have had an interest. Excuse me if i was wrong.


WITH a sentence or so of commentary.

An email with NO content other than a URL and an impersonal signature, 
but no personal description, and with a subject line of the URL looks 
more like a malware offer than a mention of interesting content.


We need SOMETHING to indicate that it is from YOU, rather than from 
crypto-locker.(and not just "Click on this!")

Do you trust Thunderbird to reliably block those kinds of emails?

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Evan Koblentz]

http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view


Did you have anything to say about it?
Or are you just dumping a URL on us?


Oh come on. He didn't do anything wrong. The link is clearly on-topic 
and directly relevant to our hobby.


Yeesh.

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Fred Cisin]

http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

Did you have anything to say about it?
Or are you just dumping a URL on us?


On Sun, 29 May 2016, Evan Koblentz wrote:
Oh come on. He didn't do anything wrong. The link is clearly on-topic and 
directly relevant to our hobby.

Yeesh.


1) It was formatted as a malware offer, not as a discussion item,
with NO apparent human generated content.
Am I the only one here who receives emails that consist of malware links?


2) I am not reading my email in a web browser.  It is not much difficulty 
to copy the URL into a browser, but I'd like a mention of what it is 
before being told to "go there".



It only takes a few words to explain why we would be interested in it,
and some sign that it is from our friend, not a bot generated spoof to
get people to a hijacked site.   (ransomware upped the stakes on such 
things)

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[wulfman]

You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the
difference between a malware link and a real link OR
both.

Now go back to your worrying about the 0.1% of links that contain
malware.



On 5/29/2016 5:48 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
 http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

>>> Did you have anything to say about it?
>>> Or are you just dumping a URL on us?
>
> On Sun, 29 May 2016, Evan Koblentz wrote:
>> Oh come on. He didn't do anything wrong. The link is clearly on-topic
>> and directly relevant to our hobby.
>> Yeesh.
>
> 1) It was formatted as a malware offer, not as a discussion item,
> with NO apparent human generated content.
> Am I the only one here who receives emails that consist of malware links?
>
>
> 2) I am not reading my email in a web browser.  It is not much
> difficulty to copy the URL into a browser, but I'd like a mention of
> what it is before being told to "go there".
>
>
> It only takes a few words to explain why we would be interested in it,
> and some sign that it is from our friend, not a bot generated spoof to
> get people to a hijacked site.   (ransomware upped the stakes on such
> things)
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:

You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the
difference between a malware link and a real link OR
both.
Now go back to your worrying about the 0.1% of links that contain
malware.


I'm glad to hear it.

OK, initially, I was glad that you've never encountered it.
But, your current rude behavior changes that, to being glad
that you have that perception of it.

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[jwsmobile]

On 5/29/2016 5:15 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:


Wulf: this link would have worked as well :
"http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century";


Tangent: is it true as written that *all* "teletypes speak 5-bit ITA2 
code "?
I actually need to figure if I can use such a setup to be a terminal for 
systems with current loop I/O.  I have a Microdata 1600 with an 
integrated TTY port for the console device, and I'd love to have an 
adapter which had USB serial (and for what it's worth, actual RS232 
serial levels to a connector.


This is from what I see attempting to run a TTY from a system.

As to the second, the tangent the author puts in is wrong, I don't know 
if an ASR33 can run 5 level easily, but all I've ever used are ascii 8 
bit machines.


thanks
Jim

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[wulfman]

I did not start the fire.


On 5/29/2016 6:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
>> You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the
>> difference between a malware link and a real link OR
>> both.
>> Now go back to your worrying about the 0.1% of links that contain
>> malware.
>
> I'm glad to hear it.
>
> OK, initially, I was glad that you've never encountered it.
> But, your current rude behavior changes that, to being glad
> that you have that perception of it.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use 
of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any 
unauthorized use,
copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited by
the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail.

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?...

[COURYHOUSE]

I will  comment...  make anything talk to a tty.
The designer is  wonderful. Keep him encouraged.
 
I like to see people actually  doing something !
 
We are implementing thee boards in  some of our in house   displays at the 
SMECC museum 
and  several offsite journalism displays incorporatingteletype 
machines.. 
 
Eric implemented  several  features we suggested that we  needed  for our 
mission.
 
Glad to see the designer  getting  some credit.
 
ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 5/29/2016 5:32:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

On Sun,  29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
> I figured some of you might have had an  interest. Excuse me if i was 
wrong.

WITH a sentence or so of  commentary.

An email with NO content other than a URL and an impersonal  signature, 
but no personal description, and with a subject line of the URL  looks 
more like a malware offer than a mention of interesting  content.

We need SOMETHING to indicate that it is from YOU, rather than  from 
crypto-locker.(and not just "Click on this!")
Do you  trust Thunderbird to reliably block those kinds of  emails?

Finally! Opened my TeleVideo TPC-1

[Ian S. King]

Hi all,

A while back I asked if anyone knew how to open the case of this early
luggable, and there were crickets. Well, I pulled it out today with the
intention of poking and prodding, and I magically got it to open!

There's a top piece that is fastened to the front bezel with two apparent
screws. But it is also snapped in to the rear cover in a manner that is not
readily apparent or discernable. If one removes two screws at either end of
the rear cover, the rear piece will cantilever back ever so slightly, and
the latching of the plastic pieces will separate without damage.

The power supply assembly is fastened to the bottom of the case with a
couple of screws that come up from below/outside, so I'd already removed
those.  It should be relatively simple to rotate the assembly so that I can
remove the screws holding the PCB to a backpiece, providing access to the
PCB so I can replace the 30+ year old electrolytics.  Given the symptoms,
this seems like the most likely root casuse -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[COURYHOUSE]

it converts  codes send and recv... 5  to  8   8  to 5?  
 
can preprogram messages in stand alone  mode and more...
 
when I see  things like this and giant 6502my faith  in things is 
renewed
 
 
ed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 5/29/2016 6:52:04 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
j...@jwsss.com writes:


This  is from what I see attempting to run a TTY from a system.

As to the  second, the tangent the author puts in is wrong, I don't know 
if an ASR33  can run 5 level easily, but all I've ever used are ascii 8 
bit  machines.

thanks
Jim

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[Jon Elson]

On 05/29/2016 08:52 PM, jwsmobile wrote:



On 5/29/2016 5:15 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:


Wulf: this link would have worked as well :
"http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century"; 




Tangent: is it true as written that *all* "teletypes 
speak 5-bit ITA2 code 
"?
No, certainly not.  There are ASCII (7-bit) and other 
varsions that probably spoke EIA code.
I actually need to figure if I can use such a setup to be 
a terminal for systems with current loop I/O.  I have a 
Microdata 1600 with an integrated TTY port for the console 
device, and I'd love to have an adapter which had USB 
serial (and for what it's worth, actual RS232 serial 
levels to a connector.


This is from what I see attempting to run a TTY from a 
system.


As to the second, the tangent the author puts in is wrong, 
I don't know if an ASR33 can run 5 level easily, but all 
I've ever used are ascii 8 bit machines.



ASR33 is an 8-bit machine.

Jon

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Adrian Stoness]

brilliant :) thanks

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 8:54 PM, wulfman  wrote:

> I did not start the fire.
>
>
> On 5/29/2016 6:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> > On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
> >> You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the
> >> difference between a malware link and a real link OR
> >> both.
> >> Now go back to your worrying about the 0.1% of links that contain
> >> malware.
> >
> > I'm glad to hear it.
> >
> > OK, initially, I was glad that you've never encountered it.
> > But, your current rude behavior changes that, to being glad
> > that you have that perception of it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for
> the use of the named
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
> Any unauthorized use,
> copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited by
> the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender
> immediately and delete this e-mail.
>
>

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Jason Scott]

If rockets ran on butthurt, we be colonizing Mars. And I'd have some
awesome candidates for the first round.
On May 30, 2016 09:32, "Evan Koblentz"  wrote:

>
>>> http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view
>>>
>>
>> Did you have anything to say about it?
>> Or are you just dumping a URL on us?
>>
>
> Oh come on. He didn't do anything wrong. The link is clearly on-topic and
> directly relevant to our hobby.
>
> Yeesh.
>

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[William Donzelli]

> You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the
> difference between a malware link and a real link OR
> both.

There are a lot of ways that malware links can slip through.

My eyes are getting old and failing, so that some m's and look like n's.

or

There is a smudge on my screen, so that some k's look like h's.

or

Its 4:30 AM, I am plowing through email, and all the characters are
starting to blur.

Malware authors count on some of these situations coming up, with some
smart people with stickless asses falling into them, clicking,
and...well, maybe someone's day gets ruined. Remember, malware authors
expect very low yields, so even my somewhat outlandish examples might
be fruitful.

Basically, posting lone URL's like you did is really bad form in this
age - even on lists of trusted friends (which this is not!). I can
total respect Fred's issue.

In the future, please state the subject clearly.

--
Will

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[Chuck Guzis]

On 05/29/2016 07:09 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

> ASR33 is an 8-bit machine.

The 5-level machine is a 32.  Used lots for sending Telex and whatnot
back in the day.   Conversion between 7-level and 5-level is a bit
messy; the LTRS/FIGS thing.

--Chuck

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Jason Scott]

Special shout-out to the two well-meaning buttercups who emailed me off
list to mansplain me about how to conduct myself in an arena that appears
to have the emotional stability of a brain-damaged toddler.
On May 30, 2016 11:28, "Jason Scott"  wrote:

> If rockets ran on butthurt, we be colonizing Mars. And I'd have some
> awesome candidates for the first round.
> On May 30, 2016 09:32, "Evan Koblentz"  wrote:
>
>>
 http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

>>>
>>> Did you have anything to say about it?
>>> Or are you just dumping a URL on us?
>>>
>>
>> Oh come on. He didn't do anything wrong. The link is clearly on-topic and
>> directly relevant to our hobby.
>>
>> Yeesh.
>>
>

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Jay West]

Top posting because

It takes two (at least) to start it, and you certainly played your part.

While it is not "forbidden" to just post a URL without any explanation, it
would be a good idea to include something with it so that we know if we want
to click on it or not. Otherwise, it's going to just be skipped by a lot of
people that might have had an interest but weren't interested in going there
blindly.

Regardless of if one agrees with fred or not, I think he stated his concerns
without being rude. Let's keep the namecalling and rudeness out of it.

Nuff said.

J

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of wulfman
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 8:55 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re:
http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm
_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28H
ack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

I did not start the fire.


On 5/29/2016 6:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2016, wulfman wrote:
>> You either have a stick up your ass, are too stupid to know the 
>> difference between a malware link and a real link OR both.
>> Now go back to your worrying about the 0.1% of links that contain 
>> malware.
>
> I'm glad to hear it.
>
> OK, initially, I was glad that you've never encountered it.
> But, your current rude behavior changes that, to being glad that you 
> have that perception of it.
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the
use of the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any
unauthorized use, copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of
this e-mail is strictly prohibited by the sender and may be unlawful. If you
are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and
delete this e-mail.

cctalk@classiccmp.org

[Jay West]

Keep it friendly. The last few posts on this do not comply.

Last warning

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jason Scott
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 10:39 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: 
http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

Special shout-out to the two well-meaning buttercups who emailed me off list to 
mansplain me about how to conduct myself in an arena that appears to have the 
emotional stability of a brain-damaged toddler.
On May 30, 2016 11:28, "Jason Scott"  wrote:

Re: vintage computers in active use

[Alan Perry]

On 5/27/16 7:17 PM, Jon Elson wrote:


   It hasn't
   seen battle yet (and I hope it doesn't have to) but I'm a little 
worried
   about the fact that it's beaten (badly) in simulations and 
exercises with

   much older fighter aircraft with much more "primitive" tech, including
   Russian aircraft, too.


Oh, just to add more, the F35 is not a "fighter" despite its 
designation.  It is an air superiority platform that is never supposed 
to get into a dogfight.  It is supposed to be in a network of planes, 
and agressors will be shot down by missile from 50 miles away.  The 
F22 is supposed to be the dogfighter.




And it wasn't supposed to even be the F-35. It was a misstatement at the 
announcement and should have been F-24.


alan

Xerox Star install floppies

[David Griffith]

Over the past six months or so, I've been selling install floppies for the 
Xerox 8010 Star.  I had no idea if I had a full set or not.  I'd just put 
together a set of as many unique floppies that I could find from my stash. 
Then last week I was asked if I had a full set.  This person then stated 
that Al Kossow might or might not have a full set.  In any case, it's not 
on Bitsavers.  Al expressed interest in a set that I offered a couple 
months ago, but he never followed up on that.  So, would someone please 
confirm the existance of a full set of install floppy images for the Xerox 
8010 Star somewhere?


The floppies I have left are these:

ViewPoint 1.1 (file check)
ViewPoint 1.1 (essential applications)
ViewPoint 1.1.6 Common Software
ViewPoint 1.1.2 Local RS232C Communications Access

--
David Griffith
d...@661.org

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Re: http://hackaday.com/2016/05/29/dragging-teletypes-into-the-21st-century

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 29 May 2016 at 20:15, j...@cimmeri.com  wrote:
> Tangent: is it true as written that *all*   "teletypes speak 5-bit ITA2 code
> "?
>
As Ed, Jon, and Chuck said; no not *all* teletypes speak 5-bit code.
The "most common" machines in the classic computing community of the
Model 33 family (ASR and KSR) speak 7-bit ASCII 1963 with a parity bit
(either marking parity, or even parity; usually).

The 5-bit equivalent to the Model 33 is the Model 32, as Chuck
mentioned. Similarly, there are other ASCII machines, the Model 35
family, for one is absolutely beautiful; it's based on the mechanisms
of the older (and tank-like) Model 28 family. In fact if I recall what
was said on the Greenkeys list, the Model 35 parts all have the same
names as their corresponding Model 28 parts, except with an '8' in the
name. But ask an actual expert.


Also, just to be slightly nit-picky, many 5-bit code speaking Teletype
machines made in/for the US speak the similar, but not quite the same
USTTY code. It only differs in the figure shift, where the bell and
apostrophe characters swap places (bell is on J in the standard, S in
USTTY), WRU (figure shift of D) is replaced with a normal printing
character (dollar sign), and the "national use" characters of F, G,
and H are defined as the excalamation mark, ampersand, and number
sign. The remaining figure shift characters are completely compatible
(and the letter shift doesn't differ at all).

Hence why in the ACPs that deal with teletype communications the
acceptable characters for use include only those which are held common
between the two versions of ITA2 and USTTY. And also why the bell code
for Flash precedence messages is JS (so that no
matter if the message ends up in Europe or the US, the machine's bell
will ring). (See: ACP-127(G), paragraph 137.e.)


Also, being I'm a process engineering student: The article makes it
seem like current loop signalling is a weird dead interface standard;
it's not. Current loop isn't that confusing a thing to deal with. We
still use it for whenever we need to have electrical signalling that
is more noise resistant or goes a longer distance than voltage level
signalling. Problem is that current loop converters cost way too damn
much. Also, unlike the generic "RS-232C on one end, 20mA current loop
on the other" converter boxes that are dumb as a bag of hammers, the
board in question has some active electronics for conversion "stuff";
which makes the board infinitely more cool.


Cheers,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: Monster 6502

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 10:42:30AM -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
>
> There's a guy in Germany who did one, using all SMT parts.  

Could it be Dieters MT15 you are thinking of? Quite inspiring project:

http://6502.org/users/dieter/mt15/mt15.htm

http://6502.org/users/dieter/mt15/mt15_cpu_front.jpg

/P