Re: PDP-11/03, LSI-11 KEV11-C CIS option

[Eric Smith]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 10:24 PM, John Wilson  wrote:
>>I'd really like to get the F11 base instruction set control (part of
>>the DCF11 hybrid) and the KEF11-B CIS (six chip hybrid spanning two
>>40-pin DIP sockets) to be dumped in this way, but only if someone is
>>willing to sacrifice them. Given that the KEF11-B is fairly uncommon,
>>I'm not holding my breath...
>
> I'd certainly want to see something mostly just like it successfully
> read, before offering mine up to be next in line.  But, the beauty of
> computers is doing useful work, not hanging on the wall and being
> pretty ... so I feel like the "museum piece" mindset can easily be
> taken too far.

The MCP1600 chipset used in the LSI-11, WD16 (Alpha Micro AM100), and
WD9000 Pascal Microengine uses microcode ROMs that really are just
ROMs, so I was able to read them electrically. The trick with those is
that the control chip (CP1621 for LSI-11, CP1661 for WD16, CP2161 for
Pascal Microengine) contain two PLAs that can cause microcode jumps
based on the current microPC and the contents of the interrupt and
translation registers. The contents of the microcode ROMs themselves
are thus quite difficult to interpret without having the contents of
the PLAs.

John McMaster took photomicrographs of the CP2161 and stitched them together:
https://siliconpr0n.org/map/wd/cp2161/mz_mit20x/
I was able to successfully extract the contents of the translation
PLAs by inspection:

I processed the PLA dumps with Python scripts into two forms, one
somewhat suitable to be human-readable, and one useful as input to a
simulator:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/wd/microengine/microcode/

I used the former to annotate my microcode disasssembly, and put the
latter and the microcode ROM dumps into a simulator which has now
successfully executed the first 30 macroinstructions (UCSD p-code
instructions) from a PDQ-3 boot ROM.

A CP1621 control chip from an LSI-11 has been provided to John, and
once he has a stitched photomicrograph of that, I'll do the same with
it.  I've already disassembled the LSI-11 microcode (base, and KEV11-A
EIS/FIS), so I should be able to make progress on that quickly once
the control PLAs are extracted. I plan to simulate it as well.

Obviously I'd want to do the delid and photomicrograph of the F11 base
instruction set control chip, which is nowhere near as rare, and
verify that the contents can be extracted and make sense, before doing
the same to the KEF11-B.  I don't have any 11/23 (or 11/24) modules on
hand, or I'd be happy to sacrifice a DCF11 to do that.  If anyone
would care to sacrifice one...

Re: Looking for Solaris 8 patches

[Mark J. Blair]

I have been sent the patches that I needed, and I have Firefox 2 running on my 
Ultra 60 under Solaris 8 now. Thanks!


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Unidentified DEC gear available, NSW-AU

[Paul Anderson]

I recognized a few things when you posted the pics, bet can't remember what
they are. I will look at some reference material this week.

I do know they aren't DEC racks.

Should be great!

Paul


On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Jay West  wrote:

> DEC Gear available. Unlike most dec gear, I must admit that I can't
> identify
> exactly what this is. Several racks, I was guessing AFT or Instrumentation
> Testing. Looks like one or more cpu or expansion cabinets in some of the
> racks, and some DEC AD/DA interface stuff. I was left with the impression
> that there may be one or more racks that are not shown in the pictures
> provided. I was told that racks are in "several different buildings on the
> estate" (residential). The first rack looks to be in very bad shape
> (perhaps
> a power supply), but the other racks don't look so bad.
>
> I am not sure that I can get more pictures from the owner, but will try. I
> think that in order to get pictures of the fronts (what we all probably
> want
> to see), the owner would have to move stuff (and them) and would rather
> not.
> The equipment is located in NSW, Australia. It sound like they just want it
> to go to a good home.
>
> If someone is local to NSW Australia and wants to spearhead going onsite to
> take a closer look for others and/or pick up the gear themselves, let me
> know offlist and I'll give you the contact info.
>
> To those on the list that aren't down under - any ideas what this is?
>
> Pics are temporarily at http://www.ezwind.net/nsw-au
>
> Best,
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>

HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[Martin.Hepperle]

While I was reading through the HP 200/300 BASIC Manual I came across some
interesting points I hadn't considered in the past.

I thought HP manuals were dry and hard to read, but I was wrong. See for
yourself...


Installing, Using, and Maintaining the BASIC 5.0 System
=
Loading BASIC, page 1-16
---
If You See Nothing on the Monitor Screen
Here are some possible explanations:
- The monitor's brightness is not turned all the way up.
- The monitor is not plugged in.
- The computer is not plugged in.
- Your eyes are not pointed in the right direction, or are obscured by your
eyelids.


Other Maintenance Tasks, page 17-1

The following list mentions some things users take for granted or tend to
forget.
...
- ...
- ...
- Rotate your tires and otherwise examine your system to see that it is
performing nicely.


Maybe the author had a good friend in final quality control of the manuals.

Martin

ISIS-II disks with PLM80 and ICE80 software.

[Mattis Lind]

While browsing various 8 inch floppies I have found a couple of disks that
seems to contain ISIS-II stuff.

I discovered a document specifying the format of the disk and managed to
extract the contents:

Disk1:
arbetsrumsdatorn:ISIS mattis_lind$ ls UNKN2
ATTRIB DSPERR ICE80.OV1 ISIS.LAB PLM80.OV0 PLMCOD.CSD
COPY EDIT ICE80.OV2 ISIS.MAP PLM80.OV1 PLMNOC.CSD
DELETE FORMAT ISIS.BIN ISIS.T0 PLM80.OV2 RENAME
DIR ICE80 ISIS.CLI PLM80 PLM80.OV3 SUBMIT
DSP ICE80.OV0 ISIS.DIR PLM80.LIB PLM80.OV4 SYSTEM.LIB

Disk2:
arbetsrumsdatorn:ISIS mattis_lind$ ls DISK2
ALIAS DEBUG EXEC LINK RELEAS TTY
ALLOC DELETE FORMAT MDUP REMAP TXT
ANALYZ DGEN FRAPP MEMDMP RENAME TXW
ASM DIR HEXBIN MOVE RESCUE XREF
ASSIGN DIRPAC INIT MYLOAD SEDIT
ATTRIB DROP ISIS.DIR O SYS
DCONVA DRSTC ISIS.ERR PAGE SYSTEM
DCOPY EDIT ISIS.LAB PROM T2
DDUMC ETX ISIS.MAP RASM TPGEN

If someone is interested in these I put them here:
http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/isis-ii-floppy-disks

There were also a DSDD format on some disks which seemed a little bit
different. The ISIS.DIR used 32 byte entries rather than 16 byte entries
and the directory linkage block structure seemed to be different. I didn't
spend any time other than recognize the difference.

Is there any documentation that specify the various ISIS disk formats there
is?

/Mattis

Re: BA23 fan noise

[Warner Losh]

In general with fans, there's two things that make them loud. 1 is the
size. All you can do about that is to get a smaller fan that can turn more
slowly. 2nd is some kind of lube problem. Sometimes you can fix these with
proper lubrication. Others, you have to replace the fan.

You really want to move the same amount of air through the system. Smaller
fans have to spin faster to move the same volume of air through the system,
and will be much louder. Larger fans can spin more slowly, while still
supplying the right amount of air.

With the BA23 cabinet, your options may be limited as to what you can do
w/o modifications to sheet metal to accommodate larger fans.

Less air flow is risky business for this old gear that has fewer heat sinks
on the parts, relying on the air flow to carry the heat away.

Warner

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 01/31/2016 08:42 PM, Mark G. Thomas wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions for figuring out how much airflow I
>> actually need, and achieving it with either stock fans at further reduced
>> voltage, or some kind of replacements? I don't need an accurate solution,
>> or something with complicated compensation for varying temperature,
>> just something quieter, moving less air, but still enough air.
>>
>>
>> I may have cooked some peripheral boards in my homebrew uVAX cabinet.
> The KA630 seems pretty robust, it ran for 21 years continuously under these
> conditions.  I got an EBM motorized impeller and made up my own plenum.
> The AC motor ran it WAY too fast, so I cobbled an 8" floppy brushless motor
> onto the original impeller, and I could adjust the speed.  My main test was
> to let it run an hour and see if the air coming out seemed too warm.  This
> was pretty unscientific.  The only boards that croaked were Dilog and such
> 3rd party boards.  I did have a thermal safety system that would cut power
> if the cooling failed (which it never did).  I later got a tangential
> blower for the expansion backplane, and it was a good deal quieter, but
> maybe didn't move enough air.
>
> Jon
>

Re: Last call: free machines in Sweden

[Glen Slick]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
>
> A 4000/300, the first 4000 QBus machine I believe. And the only one that
> doesn't have a separate memory bus.
>
> (I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong though :)

Not that it really matters, but the M7626 / KA660 / 4000-200 was the
only modular VAX 4000 series CPU that plugged directly into a regular
Q22/CD QBus slot, for example in a BA215 or BA430 chassis.

All of the other modular VAX 4000 series CPUs plugged into a dedicated
CPU slot in a BA440 (or BA441 rack mount version) chassis.
L4000-BA / KA670 / 4000-300
L4002-CA / KA675 / 4000-400
L4002-BA / KA680 / 4000-500
L4005-BA / KA681 / 4000-500A
L4002-AA / KA690 / 4000-600
L4005-AA / KA691 / 4000-600A
L4006-AA / KA692 / 4000-700A
L4006-BA / KA694 / 4000-705A

RE: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[tony duell]

> I thought HP manuals were dry and hard to read, but I was wrong. See for
> yourself...

I've found more jokes in technical/service manuals.

Take a look at the HP1311B XY display manual, the EHT power supply section : 
page 151 of the pdf on hpmuseum.net. 

-tony

Re: PDP-11/03, LSI-11 KEV11-C CIS option

[Henk Gooijen]

-Oorspronkelijk bericht- 
From: Pete Lancashire 
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:22 PM 
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: PDP-11/03, LSI-11 KEV11-C CIS option 


Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in a
very strong box. I've actually
had EPROMs show up cracked in half

-pete

-
Of course Pete!  I would never put the chip "as-is" in a bubble-wrap
envelop, for several reasons.
To ship ICs, I have small hard-carton boxes, stuffed inside with
conducting foam (ESD countermeasure). These boxes are quite strong.

But I guess it is no longer needed. I will take a few pics anyway,
but that will be next weekend.
-Henk

RE: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[Rik Bos]

You, should read the article series "Liebson on IO" about the HP 98X5 IO.
And processor manual from the BPC on HP9825.NET.


-Rik

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "tony duell" 
Verzonden: ‎1-‎2-‎2016 17:52
Aan: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
Onderwerp: RE: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?



> I thought HP manuals were dry and hard to read, but I was wrong. See for
> yourself...

I've found more jokes in technical/service manuals.

Take a look at the HP1311B XY display manual, the EHT power supply section : 
page 151 of the pdf on hpmuseum.net. 

-tony

USPS: Re: PDP-11/03, LSI-11 KEV11-C CIS option

[Ken Seefried]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Henk Gooijen  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in a
>> very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half
>
>Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are not
>gentle on parcels.
>

I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period.  In the last 6
months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or
shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web
site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before
magically showing up.  Glad it wasn't perishable.

KJ

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Ken Seefried  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Henk Gooijen  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in a
>>> very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half
>> 
>> Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are not
>> gentle on parcels.
>> 
> 
> I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period.  In the last 6
> months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or
> shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web
> site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before
> magically showing up.  Glad it wasn't perishable.
> 

I’ve had failures with *all* of the major shippers.

UPS tracking is a *joke*.  It tells you not where the package is but where
it’s supposed to be.  I was tracking an IBM 3278 terminal and it wasn’t
until the tracking said it was “on the truck for delivery” that they realized
there was a problem.  There was not one “physical” scan of the package
and they had no idea where it was.

TTFN - Guy

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Norman Jaffe]

I've had even more fun with UPS - there was a big hole punched in the side of a 
tape library that was shipped to me, completely destroying the library. 
The hole matched the fork on a forklift truck. 
UPS insisted that the hole existed before they shipped it - until it was 
pointed out that the hole was right through their shipping documents. 
- Original Message -

From: "Guy Sotomayor"  
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:43:40 AM 
Subject: Re: USPS: Shipping 


> On Feb 1, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Ken Seefried  wrote: 
> 
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote: 
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Henk Gooijen  
>>> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in a 
>>> very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half 
>> 
>> Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are not 
>> gentle on parcels. 
>> 
> 
> I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period. In the last 6 
> months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or 
> shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web 
> site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before 
> magically showing up. Glad it wasn't perishable. 
> 

I’ve had failures with *all* of the major shippers. 

UPS tracking is a *joke*. It tells you not where the package is but where 
it’s supposed to be. I was tracking an IBM 3278 terminal and it wasn’t 
until the tracking said it was “on the truck for delivery” that they realized 
there was a problem. There was not one “physical” scan of the package 
and they had no idea where it was. 

TTFN - Guy 

RE: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[tony duell]

> 
> You, should read the article series "Liebson on IO" about the HP 98X5 IO.
> And processor manual from the BPC on HP9825.NET.

Do not forget the HP75C ROM source code... 

-tony

Re: BA23 fan noise

[Steven M Jones]

On 02/01/2016 08:22, Warner Losh wrote:
> [...] All you can do about that is to get a smaller fan that can turn more
> slowly. 

If you couldn't tell from the rest of his post, Warner meant "get a
larger fan," not "smaller."

This is why main PC case fans can now be had in excess of 5" / 12cm. The
lurid neon colors are also effective at smoothing out the
noise-producing turbulence... ;)


> With the BA23 cabinet, your options may be limited as to what you can do
> w/o modifications to sheet metal to accommodate larger fans.
>
> Less air flow is risky business for this old gear that has fewer heat sinks
> on the parts, relying on the air flow to carry the heat away.

Might be interesting to grab some of the 10mm X 10mm heat sinks commonly
sold with adhesive/thermal paste on eBay and strategically place them if
they'll clear the board spacing, just to help extend the service life of
the ICs...

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Norman Jaffe  wrote:
> 
> I've had even more fun with UPS - there was a big hole punched in the side of 
> a tape library that was shipped to me, completely destroying the library. 
> The hole matched the fork on a forklift truck. 
> UPS insisted that the hole existed before they shipped it - until it was 
> pointed out that the hole was right through their shipping documents. 

Yea, they’re response when I was talking to them, was “Well just have the 
shipper
send another one”.  Yea, right.  It’s hard to get them to appreciate that some 
of this
stuff *is no longer manufactured*.  I guess the only other way is to put such a 
high
value on it (with insurance) that they sit up and take notice if it goes 
missing.

TTFN - Guy


> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Guy Sotomayor"  
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
>  
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:43:40 AM 
> Subject: Re: USPS: Shipping 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Ken Seefried  wrote: 
>> 
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote: 
 On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Henk Gooijen  
 wrote: 
 
 Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in a 
 very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half 
>>> 
>>> Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are not 
>>> gentle on parcels. 
>>> 
>> 
>> I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period. In the last 6 
>> months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or 
>> shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web 
>> site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before 
>> magically showing up. Glad it wasn't perishable. 
>> 
> 
> I’ve had failures with *all* of the major shippers. 
> 
> UPS tracking is a *joke*. It tells you not where the package is but where 
> it’s supposed to be. I was tracking an IBM 3278 terminal and it wasn’t 
> until the tracking said it was “on the truck for delivery” that they realized 
> there was a problem. There was not one “physical” scan of the package 
> and they had no idea where it was. 
> 
> TTFN - Guy 
> 
> 

Re: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> You, should read the article series "Liebson on IO" about the HP 98X5 IO.
> And processor manual from the BPC on HP9825.NET.

Has anyone scanned the "How They Do Dat Manual"?

Vintage Computer Collectors - TV Special Inquiry (fwd)

[Sellam Abraham]

Does anyone want to have their children exploited for profit and 
entertainment?

"I'm currently Producing a show for TLC that features children who have a 
passion for collecting. I was wondering if you know any kids who have a 
sizable collection of vintage computers? If you can think of anyone who 
would be interested in appearing on our show, I would greatly appreciate 
it if you could connect me with their parents to discuss the show 
further."

If anyone is interested e-mail me privately and I'll give you all the 
contact details for this producer.

--

Sellam Abraham VintageTech
--
International Man of Intrigue and Dangerhttp://www.vintagetech.com

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.  The truth is always simple.


   * * * NOTICE * * *

Due to the insecure nature of the medium over which this message has
been transmitted, no statement made in this writing may be considered 
reliable for any purpose either express or implied.  The contents of
this message are appropriate for entertainment and/or informational 
purposes only.  The right of the people to be secure in their papers
against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Ian S. King]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 1, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Norman Jaffe  wrote:
> >
> > I've had even more fun with UPS - there was a big hole punched in the
> side of a tape library that was shipped to me, completely destroying the
> library.
> > The hole matched the fork on a forklift truck.
> > UPS insisted that the hole existed before they shipped it - until it was
> pointed out that the hole was right through their shipping documents.
>
> Yea, they’re response when I was talking to them, was “Well just have the
> shipper
> send another one”.  Yea, right.  It’s hard to get them to appreciate that
> some of this
> stuff *is no longer manufactured*.  I guess the only other way is to put
> such a high
> value on it (with insurance) that they sit up and take notice if it goes
> missing.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > From: "Guy Sotomayor" 
> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:43:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: USPS: Shipping
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 1, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Ken Seefried  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>  On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Henk Gooijen <
> henk.gooi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in
> a
>  very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half
> >>>
> >>> Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are
> not
> >>> gentle on parcels.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period. In the last 6
> >> months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or
> >> shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web
> >> site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before
> >> magically showing up. Glad it wasn't perishable.
> >>
> >
> > I’ve had failures with *all* of the major shippers.
> >
> > UPS tracking is a *joke*. It tells you not where the package is but where
> > it’s supposed to be. I was tracking an IBM 3278 terminal and it wasn’t
> > until the tracking said it was “on the truck for delivery” that they
> realized
> > there was a problem. There was not one “physical” scan of the package
> > and they had no idea where it was.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
> >
> >
>
>
Useless Parcel Service - there's a reason the trucks are brown.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Last call: free machines in Sweden

[Ian S. King]

I really like my 4000/300 - and it warms the room quite nicely.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Pontus Pihlgren 
> wrote:
> >
> > A 4000/300, the first 4000 QBus machine I believe. And the only one that
> > doesn't have a separate memory bus.
> >
> > (I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong though :)
>
> Not that it really matters, but the M7626 / KA660 / 4000-200 was the
> only modular VAX 4000 series CPU that plugged directly into a regular
> Q22/CD QBus slot, for example in a BA215 or BA430 chassis.
>
> All of the other modular VAX 4000 series CPUs plugged into a dedicated
> CPU slot in a BA440 (or BA441 rack mount version) chassis.
> L4000-BA / KA670 / 4000-300
> L4002-CA / KA675 / 4000-400
> L4002-BA / KA680 / 4000-500
> L4005-BA / KA681 / 4000-500A
> L4002-AA / KA690 / 4000-600
> L4005-AA / KA691 / 4000-600A
> L4006-AA / KA692 / 4000-700A
> L4006-BA / KA694 / 4000-705A
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: Come watch me install Linux on the IBM z890 Mainframe!

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Neil Cherry  wrote:
> On 01/31/2016 06:05 PM, Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
>>
>> Come one come all!
>> Its the day of reckoning.
>> I finally have some storage on loan from a company called Funsoft!
>> Hopefully by the end of the night I will have Linux installed and a portal
>> to the internet
>> to which people can connect and play on it!
>
>
> Dang can't watch, but do tell us how it goes. I'm interested in how it goes.
> I also hope your recorded it.

Yes - please keep us posted. BTW, does this twitch thing have a proper
video backend? (ie. not flash)


-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

Big-Board II & Micro Cornucopia User Group Disks

[Jim Simpson]

Thanks very much to all who posted a reply.  The BBII disk files was
something I didn't have, and the CD image had some very interesting stuff.
I did go and download the bitsaver files also.  

Thanks again!

AIX for IBM system 370

[devin davison]

I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an emulated
system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
working system for download online.

Is there a good place to get the install media?

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 3:10 PM, devin davison  wrote:
> 
> I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
> wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an emulated
> system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
> working system for download online.
> 
> Is there a good place to get the install media?

I’ve never seen a set.  It would have been released on 9-track tapes.

I used to work on AIX PS/2 which was a required companion product to AIX/370.  

Good luck in finding media for AIX PS/2.  As far as I know, it was never 
released on
CDROM and the last version I had was ~53 3.5” floppies (long gone now 
unfortunately)
and *only* worked on specific PS/2 hardware (no BIOS — all drivers went straight
to the “metal”).

TTFN - Guy

RE: AIX for IBM system 370

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Do you recall which specific PS/2 hardware?  You're talking AIX 1.3 for PS/2, 
right?
I thought you might even be able to run it on an LX40...  There are at least 
reports of people getting it to run in older versions of VirtualPC.

Thanks!

-Ben


From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Guy Sotomayor 
[g...@shiresoft.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 3:16 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AIX for IBM system 370

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 3:10 PM, devin davison  wrote:
>
> I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
> wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an emulated
> system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
> working system for download online.
>
> Is there a good place to get the install media?

I’ve never seen a set.  It would have been released on 9-track tapes.

I used to work on AIX PS/2 which was a required companion product to AIX/370.

Good luck in finding media for AIX PS/2.  As far as I know, it was never 
released on
CDROM and the last version I had was ~53 3.5” floppies (long gone now 
unfortunately)
and *only* worked on specific PS/2 hardware (no BIOS — all drivers went straight
to the “metal”).

TTFN - Guy

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

From what I recall, microchannel PS/2’s with a 386, 486 or Pentium.  I don’t 
recall if it was
ever run on an ISA based PS/2.

AIX PS/2 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and it’s final release 1.3 (which at the end had 
quarterly updates that added
new HW support in each update…but I don’t recall how those were labelled).

TTFN - Guy

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 3:19 PM, Benjamin Huntsman 
>  wrote:
> 
> Do you recall which specific PS/2 hardware?  You're talking AIX 1.3 for PS/2, 
> right?
> I thought you might even be able to run it on an LX40...  There are at least 
> reports of people getting it to run in older versions of VirtualPC.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Ben
> 
> 
> From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Guy Sotomayor 
> [g...@shiresoft.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 3:16 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: AIX for IBM system 370
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 3:10 PM, devin davison  wrote:
>> 
>> I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
>> wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an emulated
>> system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
>> working system for download online.
>> 
>> Is there a good place to get the install media?
> 
> I’ve never seen a set.  It would have been released on 9-track tapes.
> 
> I used to work on AIX PS/2 which was a required companion product to AIX/370.
> 
> Good luck in finding media for AIX PS/2.  As far as I know, it was never 
> released on
> CDROM and the last version I had was ~53 3.5” floppies (long gone now 
> unfortunately)
> and *only* worked on specific PS/2 hardware (no BIOS — all drivers went 
> straight
> to the “metal”).
> 
> TTFN - Guy
> 

RE: AIX for IBM system 370

[Dave Wade]

As I said on the Hercules list, its licenced materials so probably not 
available anywhere, and IBM is pretty protective about its intellectual 
property. 
It wasn't widely used, and it wasn't popular where it was used. There was also 
Amdahl UTS but again licenced.

Dave
G4UGM

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
> davison
> Sent: 01 February 2016 23:11
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: AIX for IBM system 370
> 
> I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
> wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an emulated
> system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
> working system for download online.
> 
> Is there a good place to get the install media?

Still wanted: Symbolics Gear

[Seth Morabito]

Hi folks,

This is as always a tremendous long shot, but I figured I would put
it out there anyway.

I am still eagerly looking for any and all Symbolics systems.  I know
very well how rare these things are, and how much money they are
worth.  

If you have any systems you would be willing to let go of,
let's talk.  I'm happy to entertain trades if that's something
you're interested in, but I'm also happy just to pay fair market
prices.

For reference, I am located near Seattle, WA.

Best Wishes,

-Seth

P.S.: I also know how difficult they are to care for and keep running!
I'm all too familiar with dying ESDI drives and bad power supplies. 

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[devin davison]

Darn. I figured as much as far as being licenced, but figured I would ask.
I really wanted to take a look at the AIX version of unix.
I don't have any of the original hardware, I assume there was a straight
unix port for the system 370, but i have enough native hardware that runs
unix i might as well not bother with it in emulation.

There are a bunch of software kits for the emulator online, ill take a look
at some of the ibm specific software to see what it is like.

Thanks
--Devin

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Dave Wade  wrote:

> As I said on the Hercules list, its licenced materials so probably not
> available anywhere, and IBM is pretty protective about its intellectual
> property.
> It wasn't widely used, and it wasn't popular where it was used. There was
> also Amdahl UTS but again licenced.
>
> Dave
> G4UGM
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
> > davison
> > Sent: 01 February 2016 23:11
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: AIX for IBM system 370
> >
> > I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
> > wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an
> emulated
> > system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
> > working system for download online.
> >
> > Is there a good place to get the install media?
>
>

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

If you want a "Unix" experience on the mainframe, the easiest/best way 
at this point

is Linux.

TTFN - Guy

On 2/1/16 7:09 PM, devin davison wrote:

Darn. I figured as much as far as being licenced, but figured I would ask.
I really wanted to take a look at the AIX version of unix.
I don't have any of the original hardware, I assume there was a straight
unix port for the system 370, but i have enough native hardware that runs
unix i might as well not bother with it in emulation.

There are a bunch of software kits for the emulator online, ill take a look
at some of the ibm specific software to see what it is like.

Thanks
--Devin

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Dave Wade  wrote:


As I said on the Hercules list, its licenced materials so probably not
available anywhere, and IBM is pretty protective about its intellectual
property.
It wasn't widely used, and it wasn't popular where it was used. There was
also Amdahl UTS but again licenced.

Dave
G4UGM


-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
davison
Sent: 01 February 2016 23:11
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

Subject: AIX for IBM system 370

I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an

emulated

system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
working system for download online.

Is there a good place to get the install media?

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[devin davison]

What machine would you recommend for the Linux route. The idea being to run
the oldest machine possible.

I was looking at AIX because it ran on one of the oldest ibm machines i
could find.

I see the big S/390 machines have pretty good linux support, but god, ill
never find one around here. Pretty interesting big machines though.

--Devin

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:

> If you want a "Unix" experience on the mainframe, the easiest/best way at
> this point
> is Linux.
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>
> On 2/1/16 7:09 PM, devin davison wrote:
>
>> Darn. I figured as much as far as being licenced, but figured I would ask.
>> I really wanted to take a look at the AIX version of unix.
>> I don't have any of the original hardware, I assume there was a straight
>> unix port for the system 370, but i have enough native hardware that runs
>> unix i might as well not bother with it in emulation.
>>
>> There are a bunch of software kits for the emulator online, ill take a
>> look
>> at some of the ibm specific software to see what it is like.
>>
>> Thanks
>> --Devin
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Dave Wade  wrote:
>>
>> As I said on the Hercules list, its licenced materials so probably not
>>> available anywhere, and IBM is pretty protective about its intellectual
>>> property.
>>> It wasn't widely used, and it wasn't popular where it was used. There was
>>> also Amdahl UTS but again licenced.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>> G4UGM
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
 From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
 davison
 Sent: 01 February 2016 23:11
 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
 
 Subject: AIX for IBM system 370

 I have been messing with the Hercules emulator, and have really been
 wanting to take a look at ibm AIX, and get a working install on an

>>> emulated
>>>
 system 370. I have found no mention of install media or disk images of a
 working system for download online.

 Is there a good place to get the install media?

>>>
>>>
>

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Fred Cisin]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016, devin davison wrote:

What machine would you recommend for the Linux route. The idea being to run
the oldest machine possible.
I was looking at AIX because it ran on one of the oldest ibm machines i
could find.


Howzbout Xenix?
Could run it on a 286 AT.
Maybe even on an XT?  Although I think that you'd want more than 10MB, so 
need to jumper the controller to run a 26MB drive.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:09 PM, devin davison  wrote:
> I really wanted to take a look at the AIX version of unix.
> I don't have any of the original hardware, I assume there was a straight
> unix port for the system 370,

There may be a "straight unix port" for the System/370, but AIX ain't
it. The earlier IX/370 product may be closer to a straight port, but
is probably even less easily found than AIX/370.

"AIX looks like it was implemented by a pretty smart space alien who
heard Unix described to him by a different space alien, but they had
to gesture a lot because their universal translators were broken."
--unknown, but often misattributed to Paul Tomblin

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Tothwolf]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016, Norman Jaffe wrote:

I've had even more fun with UPS - there was a big hole punched in the 
side of a tape library that was shipped to me, completely destroying the 
library.

The hole matched the fork on a forklift truck.
UPS insisted that the hole existed before they shipped it - until it was 
pointed out that the hole was right through their shipping documents.


The very same thing happened to me with a washing machine sized box which 
contained a computer rack. The hole was large enough where one of the 
packages of mounting hardware/brackets got lost. The seller was 
non-responsive and hadn't insured it and it took me ~3 months to get $100 
out of UPS.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Richard Loken]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016, devin davison wrote:


What machine would you recommend for the Linux route. The idea being to run
the oldest machine possible.

I was looking at AIX because it ran on one of the oldest ibm machines i
could find.


Way back, circa 1980, Unix V6 was ported to the 370, a bit later Amdahl 
marketed UTS, and a bit more later IBM marketed IX/370.  All of this was 
prior to 1986 I think.  As far as I know, all of them ran under the VM 
hypervisor way back when Linus Torvald was still wearing diapers and 
decades before some linux weenie thought he invented the vm hypervisor.


--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: USPS: Shipping

[Tothwolf]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016, Guy Sotomayor wrote:

On Feb 1, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Ken Seefried  wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Tothwolf wrote:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Spend the extra few dollars (or what your currency is) and pack it in 
very strong box. I've actually had EPROMs show up cracked in half


Seconded. The machines the USPS uses for automated sorting of mail are 
not gentle on parcels.


I'd rather strongly suggest you not us the USPS period.  In the last 6 
months or so they've flat out lost 4 items either destined to or 
shipped by me, and one item apparently (according to the tracking web 
site) sat in a sorting facility in Utah for nearly a month before 
magically showing up.  Glad it wasn't perishable.


I’ve had failures with *all* of the major shippers.

UPS tracking is a *joke*.  It tells you not where the package is but 
where it’s supposed to be.  I was tracking an IBM 3278 terminal and it 
wasn’t until the tracking said it was “on the truck for delivery” that 
they realized there was a problem.  There was not one “physical” scan of 
the package and they had no idea where it was.


I recently bought a vacuum tube tester and whatever USPS carrier happened 
to be on duty scanned it as delivered but it was nowhere to be found. 
After calling the USPS and getting the branch manager involved, it 
magically appeared the next day. Someone at the USPS had also marked out 
the tracking barcode on the label.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 2/1/16 7:58 PM, devin davison wrote:

What machine would you recommend for the Linux route. The idea being to run
the oldest machine possible.

I was looking at AIX because it ran on one of the oldest ibm machines i
could find.

I see the big S/390 machines have pretty good linux support, but god, ill
never find one around here. Pretty interesting big machines though.


The MP3000 had linux support.  They even had an option for the CPU to 
run linux.  It was
cheaper than the "normal" CPUs because it was configured to not be able 
to run the IBM OS's.


TTFN - Guy

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 2/1/16 8:11 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:09 PM, devin davison  wrote:

I really wanted to take a look at the AIX version of unix.
I don't have any of the original hardware, I assume there was a straight
unix port for the system 370,

There may be a "straight unix port" for the System/370, but AIX ain't
it. The earlier IX/370 product may be closer to a straight port, but
is probably even less easily found than AIX/370.

"AIX looks like it was implemented by a pretty smart space alien who
heard Unix described to him by a different space alien, but they had
to gesture a lot because their universal translators were broken."
 --unknown, but often misattributed to Paul Tomblin
You have to remember that IBM called all of it's UNIX products AIX 
regardless of where

they came from.

IX/370 was prior to the AIX naming and if I recall, that was done by 
Interactive.  AIX/370
and AIX PS/2 actually were the same code base (as opposed to AIX RT and 
AIX 3...RS/6000).

Those code bases were from Locus Computer Corporation.

The AIX in the quote was regarding AIX for the RS/6000.  The kernel for 
AIX on the
RS/6000 bore no real resemblance to any other Unix kernel.  That was 
mainly due to
the size of the virtual address space of the Power processors.  At the 
time (32-bits)
the Power CPU supported a 52-bit virtual address space and with 256MB 
segments,
it was possible to map the 4GB address with 16 segment registers also 
because
Power used "inverted page tables", there was no real notion of reloading 
the page
tables.  The page table described the full 52-bit address space.  So to 
do an address
space switch, you just needed to reload a significant set of the segment 
registers

(actually quite fast).

What the kernel did was to allocate each data structure as an array and 
pointed a
segment register at it.  Since at that point, virtual addresses were 
"free", it was just
point a segment register at the array and away you go.  Pretty much 
everything in
the kernel was an index into an array.  Which array, was determined by 
the segment

register.

Yes, it was alien (vs traditional Unix kernels) but it was simple and 
quite fast.


TTFN - Guy

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
> The AIX in the quote was regarding AIX for the RS/6000.  The kernel for AIX
> on the
> RS/6000 bore no real resemblance to any other Unix kernel.
[...]
> Yes, it was alien (vs traditional Unix kernels) but it was simple and quite
> fast.

Am I misremembering, or doesn't AIX use substantially different
commands for managing things, rather than the commands typically found
in /sbin and/or /usr/sbin on "normal" Unix systems?  I thought that
was another motivation for the "space alien" quote, rather than only
the kernel.

I haven't actually used AIX/370. I used AIX for the RS/6000 only long
enough to get disgusted and get an illicit copy of AOS, which was BSD
4.3, which I knew how to use.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Phil Budne]

My favorite quote (by my one-time boss at BU, Barry Shein):
"AIX, it will remind you of Unix"

Eric Smith wrote:
> Am I misremembering, or doesn't AIX use substantially different
> commands for managing things, rather than the commands typically found
> in /sbin and/or /usr/sbin on "normal" Unix systems?

Configuration was stored in a "Object Database" (so forget anything
you ever knew about the /etc directory).  System administration for
mortals was done with a GUI called "SMIT".  It showed an animation of
a person running.  If the command failed, they fell down face first.
But, SMIT *DID* show you the commands it was using, so you could learn
from the mistake of ever running it.

Everything was reworded in IBM standard english,
ie; DASD instead of Disk.

No doubt there are other horrors I've put out of my mind.

Here's a memory I couldn't suppress: Device drivers couldn't have
persistent mapping of devices into the kernel address space: you had
to remap the device each time you entered the driver!

ISTR the kernel was SVR3 based.  The streams implementation
was different, but not as bad as the one I remember on HP-UX.

PDP-11/84 (KDJ11-B) and Error 61

[Ulrich Tagge]

Hi List,

I have a working 11/84, and I have decidec, to test some of my spare 
cards, starting with: KDJ11-B.


I see the following error, when powering up the system, which points me 
to the Clock.



>>
Error 61
M8190 clock Error

See troubleshooting documentation


CommandDescription

   1   Rerun test
   2   Loop on test


Type a command then press the RETURN key:
>>

Any hints, what the problem could be? Is the clock in this new PDP's 
still generated out of the line frequency? Could it by, that the KDJ11-B 
is configured to a wrong HZ value?


Many Greetings
Ulrich

Re: Equipment Available, DEC

[Ulrich Tagge]

Hi Jay,

You should have received my mail.
The distance from me to Switzerland is not to high, and I'm quite often 
there, so maybe I can pick-up them, and extend my collection.


Many Greetings
Ulrich


 

Re: HP Manuals - where's your sense of humor?

[Pete Lancashire]

Tektronix up in Oregon also let a few doodles escape

http://www.reprise.com/host/tektronix/humor/

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:51 AM, tony duell  wrote:

>
>
> > I thought HP manuals were dry and hard to read, but I was wrong. See for
> > yourself...
>
> I've found more jokes in technical/service manuals.
>
> Take a look at the HP1311B XY display manual, the EHT power supply section
> :
> page 151 of the pdf on hpmuseum.net.
>
> -tony
>
>

Re: PDP-11/84 (KDJ11-B) and Error 61

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I have a working 11/84, and I have decidec, to test some of my spare cards,
> starting with: KDJ11-B.
>
> I see the following error, when powering up the system, which points me to
> the Clock.
>
>>>
> Error 61
> M8190 clock Error
>
> Any hints, what the problem could be? Is the clock in this new PDP's still
> generated out of the line frequency? Could it by, that the KDJ11-B is
> configured to a wrong HZ value?

If you have one M8190 KDJ11-B which works fine and another one which
has this error when swapped into the same system you should check the
EEPROM configuration options between the two and see if the LTC
options are configured differently between the two.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1173/EK-KDJ1B-UG_KDJ11-B_Nov86.pdf

2.3 EEPROM CONFIGURATION PARAMETERS
Table 2-6 Configuration Parameters
H - Disable clock CSR (0)=No (1)=Yes
I - Force clock interrupts (0)=No (1)=Yes
J - Clock frequency (0)=Power supply (1)=50Hz (2)=60Hz (3)=800Hz

If the LTC parameters are configured differently between the two try
changing the parameters of the non working one to match the parameters
of the working one.

Circuit Design Aids / Unix Circuit Design System

[Mark Kahrs]

In the original Unix BSTJ of 1978 Sandy Fraser described a system he called
"Circuit Design Aids".  Schematic capture was done on a 4014 and conversion
went all the way to wire wrap.

CDA was rehabbed and rewritten by many people over the years.  It became
known as the Unix Circuit Design System (UCDS) and it was available from
Bell Labs under a separate
license as I recall.  UCDS was used to design many projects including the
5620, Belle and others.

When Plan9 arrived, UCDS was converted to Plan9 (not too hard...) and
renamed back to CDA.  The code was released in the first Plan9 CDROM.

So.  It occurred to me that I could back port it to Linux.  I did so with
help from H. Trickey and the Plan9 compatibility library.  I put all of
this code on https://github.com/kahrs/cda.

The interested and curious can find it there.  I make no promises about
full functionality, however, it is available for those who want to tinker.

Re: AIX for IBM system 370

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 2/1/16 10:05 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:

The AIX in the quote was regarding AIX for the RS/6000.  The kernel for AIX
on the
RS/6000 bore no real resemblance to any other Unix kernel.

[...]

Yes, it was alien (vs traditional Unix kernels) but it was simple and quite
fast.

Am I misremembering, or doesn't AIX use substantially different
commands for managing things, rather than the commands typically found
in /sbin and/or /usr/sbin on "normal" Unix systems?  I thought that
was another motivation for the "space alien" quote, rather than only
the kernel.


Yea, all of the management was done through smit (I think that's the 
command).  Menu

driven and everything was kept in a database.

I think in later versions IBM relented and allowed things to be managed 
through "normal"

Unix commands and files.


I haven't actually used AIX/370. I used AIX for the RS/6000 only long
enough to get disgusted and get an illicit copy of AOS, which was BSD
4.3, which I knew how to use.


I used  AIX (I think it was 3.2.5)  for quite a while as a build 
environment for other systems

(since it tended to be the fastest thing around...at IBM anyway).

TTFN - Guy

Re: Last call: free machines in Sweden

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Mon, Feb 01, 2016 at 08:34:21AM -0800, Glen Slick wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
> >
> > A 4000/300, the first 4000 QBus machine I believe. And the only one that
> > doesn't have a separate memory bus.
> >
> > (I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong though :)
> 
> Not that it really matters, but the M7626 / KA660 / 4000-200 was the
> only modular VAX 4000 series CPU that plugged directly into a regular
> Q22/CD QBus slot, for example in a BA215 or BA430 chassis.

You are right, the chassis reads 4000-200. I just got the number wrong.

/P