Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. /P On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: > Cctalk'ers, > > Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now > runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion > announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: > http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! > > - Evan
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
Will they build spaceships? :D 2015-10-14 4:11 GMT-03:00 Pontus Pihlgren : > I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. > > But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. > Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. > > Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. > > /P > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: > > Cctalk'ers, > > > > Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now > > runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion > > announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: > > http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! > > > > - Evan >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
I agree that it's good to have secondary companion designs just for things like stitched patches. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. > > But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. > Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. > > Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. > > /P > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: > > Cctalk'ers, > > > > Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now > > runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion > > announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: > > http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! > > > > - Evan >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 04:16:43AM -0300, Alexandre Souza wrote: > Will they build spaceships? :D Probably, otherwise they would have made a more "wormy" logo :) /P > > 2015-10-14 4:11 GMT-03:00 Pontus Pihlgren : > > > I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. > > > > But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. > > Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. > > > > Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. > > > > /P > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: > > > Cctalk'ers, > > > > > > Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now > > > runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion > > > announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: > > > http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! > > > > > > - Evan > >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
Where is the vintage computer! I cant see one Rod On 14/10/2015 08:11, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. /P On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: Cctalk'ers, Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! - Evan -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
There are circumstantial / companion versions logo, stand by Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Oct 14, 2015 4:39 AM, "Rod Smallwood" wrote: > Where is the vintage computer! I cant see one > > Rod > > > > On 14/10/2015 08:11, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > >> I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. >> >> But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. >> Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. >> >> Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. >> >> /P >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: >> >>> Cctalk'ers, >>> >>> Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now >>> runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion >>> announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: >>> http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! >>> >>> - Evan >>> >> > -- > Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330 >
Re: VAX in action
On 13 October 2015 at 02:33, Sean Caron wrote: > I will also lay the blame for my lack of inline quoting at the > feet of same; GMail makes a total hash of it. No it doesn't; it works perfectly. Either hit Ctrl-A to expand all, then trim as required, or if that's too hard, go into Settings and the Labs tab and enable: «Quote selected text Ryan A Quote the text you have selected when you reply to a message. (Now works with the mouse too!) » It does proper quoting as well or better than any offline MUA. I'm using it right now. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
[ASR33] > This is a very delicate mechanical device. In spite of the fabulous shipping > crate, the bolts > installed to secure the printer, the shipping guys let us down. The thing > had very rough > handling, sheared off the shipping bolts, the printer was totally shook up > and Wayne and > I are working on it to bring it back. A general point. The 'Typing Unit' -- that is the main chassis with the motor, carriage, platen, punch, in fact everything apart from the keyboard, tape reader and electronic unit is not normally bolted down. It rests on rubber mounts. If you are shipping an Model 33, you must either put in a shipping screw, or preferably remove the typing unit (it's just some electrical connections and the H-plate link to the keyboard trip linkage) and pack it separately. Otherwise you will have damage. If it;s a real Teletype as opposed to, say a Data Dynamics 390 (which is Teletype mechanicals in a Data Dynamics case) then note that the plastic cover is likely to have gone very brittle with age. Take care. > You need to understand, and be prepared for handling a mechanical marvel, > that there are > virtually no replacement parts. You will have to be pretty good with your > hands, have tools > and a shop. This is a totally mechanical device, and the innovation in it, > how it works is so > clever you will not get it without some help. All I can say is YMMV (and mine certainly did). I rebuilt my first Model 33 when I was still at what you would call high school. Back then there was no WWW, no places to get manuals, no lists like this one. And I didn't have the paper manuals. I took the whole thing apart down to the last nut and bolt. And got it running. You need a good hand tool kit, but not that much more unless you need to make parts. Perhaps because I had a mis-spent childhood but I had no problems figuring out how it all works. It's not that complicated, it follows very logical principles. > Lots of patience, and when things go wrong (they will) you will need the > perseverance to > stick with it. That I will agree with. My first one, working without manuals, took about 6 weeks of tinkering in the evenings after school and at weekends to get going. And it certainly didn't work first time (it almost did, I had misunderstood the print suppression linkage). -tony
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
I'll throw my two-cents in as I have a fairly modest collection of teletypes. A nice feature of the 32/33 is that the tape punch/reader is built-in, but understand that these were cost-reduced models that can be fairly finicky to get going and keep running. The issue right now is that the market for 33's is pretty hot due to computer folks looking to resurrect their minis, and the buyers usually have deep pockets to match (just check out completed auctions on ebay). I've had pretty good success searching out Craigslist for the generic 'teletype', and one in a while one will pop up. If you're willing to drive, all the better. And if you happen across a model 35 you'll be the envy of many a collector. This is the 8-level version of the 28 and was designed for 24/7 service. Absolutely bullet-proof, but you'll need an outboard punch and reader unless you happen across an ASR model. Check out youtube for a period video of one in action on the Dartmouth TSS. -C On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Brad wrote: > I've been watching a lot of vintage computer videos put up by enthusiasts > (thanks so much for that). I have been really fascinated lately by the > Altair and teletypes, paper tape readers and so on. Just watching one > fellow load BASIC into his Altair. you just felt the history and the > connection to Bill Gates and all the pioneers of an era that was happening > just as I was being born. > > > > I only ever see teletypes for sale on ebay, only in the US, and of course I > don't bite because of shipping costs, plus usually people ask insane prices > for them. I am wondering what a reasonable price should be for a unit with > a paper tape reader, and any tips on how I might go about finding one > beyond > Craigs, etc, up here in Canada. And anything I should watch out for and so > on. > > > > Thanks muchly, > > > Brad > > > >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> From: Ben Franchuk > I would get rid of the outer leaves I think I might agree - they don't add much, for the amount of space and complexity they add. Very clever to make them out of PCB traces, though! Noel
Re: RK11-C (was Re: H960 logo panel)
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Paul Anderson wrote: > I have two backplanes, some boards somewhere ,but no panels, at least yet. > Also a Diablo 30 or 31. I had a Diablo 30 but I lost it in a flood 25 years ago. :-( -ethan
The Burroughs B5900 and E-Mode
I don't know if this memoir is well-known or not, but I thought it might interest. « The Burroughs B5900 and E-Mode A bridge to 21st Century Computing By Jack Allweiss Copyright 2010 My name is Jack A. Allweiss, also known as “The Father of the B5900 System”. I did not give myself that title, my friends and co-workers at Burroughs Corporation did, and I consider it a great honor. This true story is about the B5900, and why it was an important milestone for Burroughs and later Unisys, as well as the computer industry in general. » http://jack.hoa.org/hoajaa/BurrMain.html -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
> Also for reading in paper tape, a high speed punch and paper tape reader > is often wanted. Yes, IMHO the ASR33 reader is an interesting thing to have, but it's only 10cps, and it is not kind to the tapes. A good capstan-fed optical paper tape reader will do between 300 and 1000cps [1] and will not damage the tapes. Well worth trying to track one down as well as the Teletype [1] I have a soft spot for Trend paper tape readers. I have several HSR500s (bidirectional, 500cps) and UDR700s (unidirectional, 700 cps). The nice thing about them is that the automatically set the read threshold level, they can thus work with partically transparent tape, are unaffected by changed in the lamp brightness and are a doddle to set up. -tony
Re: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
> On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:02 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > > Do you remember Carrol Touch terminals made in the area? I just picked up 2 > still in the box! Really? PLATO terminals? Or some other kind? I have a Carroll PLATO terminal at home. If you have one, you can connect it to the cyber1 PLATO system. paul
RE: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
> Yes, I had a bunch of Versatec 1200A's with the Tektronix > hard copy feature. the Versatec was the greatest graphics > printer until laser printers came out, then they became > instant boat anchors. Here's the process. Only in the sense that a PDP11, or a VAX, or a PERQ, or a is a boatanchor. My view is that a computer is a lot more than the processor, and that the peripherals should be preserved too. Yes the processor runs the old software, but emulators do that too, If you are interested (as I am) in the hardware then the peripherals are as interesting as the processor in a lot of cases > There is a double-sided PC board that touches the face of > the paper end-on, so the traces just come to the end of the That's it. IIRC that was the 'Nib electrode' in Versatec manuals. Somewhere I have a spare one for the V80 series. > board and make contact with the paper. On the 1200A, that > was a 200 DPI printer, so each side of the PC board had 100 > traces/inch, and they were interleaved, so you got to paint > 200 raster lines/inch along the axis of the paper. The back > side of the paper had wide electrodes that defined zones. > One of these backplate electrodes was charged at a time to > the opposite polarity of the front electrodes. I seem to > remember there were +800, -200 and -800 V power supplies. It's been a long time since I looked at the manuals, but IIRC the width of the back electrodes was half what you might expect -- half the 'repeat distance' of the nibs. The reason was to prevent edge effects between nibs and the adjacent back electrodes. > The raster line was written about one inch at a time across > the page, then the next backplate was charged and the next > inch was written, etc. Once the whole line was written > electrostatically on the paper, a stepper motor advanced the > paper and the next line was written. About an inch from the Was it a stepper motor? I am sure mine uses a permanent magnet DC motor. I do remember that the paper feed roller is in 2 parts with a differential gear between them. > writing electrodes, there was a toner applicator that > produced a fountain of this hydrocarbon-smelling solventy > stuff with the carbon toner suspended in it. The charge on It's called the 'toner fountain' in the manuals, but it actually works below atmospheric pressure. The results are that (a) the paper is sucked down onto the toner fountain and (b) if the paper is torn or runs out you don't get toner sprayed all over the machine room. The toner is circulated by a little electromangnetic pump. The toner system tends to block, I found that what we call 'white spirit' was a suitable solvent to unblock it. One time I tried the old 'suck it and see' method to get the pump valves working and found that the toner tastes horrible! [...] > We did have a TEK hard copy unit before the Versatecs. That > was a pretty awful unit. it had a line-scan CRT with a > fiber optic faceplate that exposed the image onto > thermal-developing silver paper-film that rolled past the > CRT. It also made bad smells, and the paper came out brown > with dark brown images on them. In normal fluorescent > lighting, the hard copies started turning totally brown > after just a day or two. Also, the silver paper was QUITE > expensive, maybe close to a Dollar a page or something, even > back in the 1970's. I don't have a Tektronix hard copy unit (one of the few oddball printers I've not managed to obtain) but I am told that the paper goes off with time, and that it unlikely there's any useable paper left for them ;-( -tony
Re: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
> On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > >>> ... > Yes, I had a bunch of Versatec 1200A's with the Tektronix hard copy feature. > the Versatec was the greatest graphics printer until laser printers came out, > then they became instant boat anchors. Here's the process. > > ... And, with the Tek hardcopy board, it could hardcopy a Tek storage tube > terminal in less than 30 seconds. Ok, but for screen hardcopy, the question is how the image on the screen is read out so it can be fed to the printer. For the Tek storage tube case, that presumably is done by scanning the screen with the beam, which will produce the stored image in the same way as a TV camera tube works. But how would you do that in a plasma panel? paul
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Rod Smallwood On 14/10/2015 11:57, william degnan wrote: There are circumstantial / companion versions logo, stand by Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Oct 14, 2015 4:39 AM, "Rod Smallwood" wrote: Where is the vintage computer! I cant see one Rod On 14/10/2015 08:11, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: I like it, especially the digital take on the laurel wreath. But as others have said, complex logos are not always a good choice. Especially not if you intend to use it in print or on clothing. Perhaps you alreade have a less complex companion logo planned. /P On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:13:08PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote: Cctalk'ers, Vintage Computer Federation -- the new 501(c)3 non-profit that now runs the MARCH museum, and which will soon make some major expansion announcements -- has a very cool new logo. Here's a preview: http://www.snarc.net/vcf-logo-preview.png. Hoping everyone likes it! - Evan -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330 -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Rod Smallwood As time goes on more computers become vintage. -- Ethan O'Toole
Re: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
On 10/14/2015 08:55 AM, tony duell wrote: Was it a stepper motor? I am sure mine uses a permanent magnet DC motor. I do remember that the paper feed roller is in 2 parts with a differential gear between them. Yes, absolutely, on the Versatec 1200A. I put those motors in a milling machine. Big, round case stepper motors, with a ghastly resistor-transistor drive. writing electrodes, there was a toner applicator that produced a fountain of this hydrocarbon-smelling solventy stuff with the carbon toner suspended in it. The charge on It's called the 'toner fountain' in the manuals, but it actually works below atmospheric pressure. The results are that (a) the paper is sucked down onto the toner fountain and (b) if the paper is torn or runs out you don't get toner sprayed all over the machine room. The 1200A did not have any mechanism for negative pressure that I know of. The fountain was in the middle, then there was a larger, rectangular region around it that returned the fluid to the container. You could activate the pump while the lid was open, with a button on the machine. The toner would not overflow even with the paper away from the fountain. Now, there was ONE way to make it spill. If you opened or closed the lid while the drain space around the fountain was still filled, the drying blower would spray some of the toner. So, when the paper tore or some other mishap occurred, you had to wait 10 seconds or so before opening the cover. The toner is circulated by a little electromangnetic pump. The toner system tends to block, I found that what we call 'white spirit' was a suitable solvent to unblock it. One time I tried the old 'suck it and see' method to get the pump valves working and found that the toner tastes horrible! How could you do that??? Just the smell of the stuff should have been adequate warning. We did have a TEK hard copy unit before the Versatecs. That was a pretty awful unit. it had a line-scan CRT with a fiber optic faceplate that exposed the image onto thermal-developing silver paper-film that rolled past the CRT. It also made bad smells, and the paper came out brown with dark brown images on them. In normal fluorescent lighting, the hard copies started turning totally brown after just a day or two. Also, the silver paper was QUITE expensive, maybe close to a Dollar a page or something, even back in the 1970's. I don't have a Tektronix hard copy unit (one of the few oddball printers I've not managed to obtain) but I am told that the paper goes off with time, and that it unlikely there's any useable paper left for them ;-( The fact that the paper turned brown within a day or so just sitting on the desk makes me think there would certainly be no paper remaining usable for this printer. The same type of system was used for some years after for making medical quick copies on ultrasound and similar machines. Usually, these were on about 5" wide paper, though. Jon
Re: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
On 10/14/2015 09:00 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Jon Elson wrote: ... Yes, I had a bunch of Versatec 1200A's with the Tektronix hard copy feature. the Versatec was the greatest graphics printer until laser printers came out, then they became instant boat anchors. Here's the process. ... And, with the Tek hardcopy board, it could hardcopy a Tek storage tube terminal in less than 30 seconds. Ok, but for screen hardcopy, the question is how the image on the screen is read out so it can be fed to the printer. For the Tek storage tube case, that presumably is done by scanning the screen with the beam, which will produce the stored image in the same way as a TV camera tube works. But how would you do that in a plasma panel? Actually, the plasma panels used a bistable effect, that was how the screen memory worked. Each pixel would stay lit once the discharge was struck. The drive electronics could scan a pixel and tell whether it was lit or not by the voltage across the pixel. Jon
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 09:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Are you actually restoring a 360? I'd sure like to hear more if you are working on this! Jon
Re: The Burroughs B5900 and E-Mode
> From: Liam Proven > I don't know if this memoir is well-known or not, but I thought it > might interest. > ... > http://jack.hoa.org/hoajaa/BurrMain.html Wow! What a fabulous story/writeup! Highly recommend to everyone. Noel
RE: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
[Versatec paper feed motors] > Yes, absolutely, on the Versatec 1200A. I put those motors > in a milling machine. Big, round case stepper motors, with > a ghastly resistor-transistor drive. You've got me worried now... I have V80. Actually, it's ICL-badged, and has a GPIB adapter board at the back connected to the normal parallel port [1]. I was prepared to swear the motor in that is a normal DC motor, but perhaps I have misremembered it. I really don't want to strip it down tonight, and finding the manuals [2] Is an even bigger job. [1] This is a really odd board. It contains about 4 chips, one is a Fairchild thing that does the GPIB handshake, etc. Another is (IIRC) 48 pins, and is some kind of custom interface chip. I have never found out quite how the thing responds to GPIB data, one day I will set it up with the PERQ (which I have software to drive it on) and my HPIB analyser and take a look... The GPIB cable it came with had a 'barrier box' halfway along it. This was something more commonly used with modems in the UK (in fact when you had to rent the modem from the GPO it was actually required in many cases). A box with 24 inverse-series pairs of zeners and 24 fuses to mke darn sure you coudn't overvoltage any pin on the modem. Quite why it was needed here I don't know... [2] Still unpacking after the housemove a year ago. Need to get the bookshelves up so I can unpack the 100-200 boxes of books... > >> writing electrodes, there was a toner applicator that > >> produced a fountain of this hydrocarbon-smelling solventy > >> stuff with the carbon toner suspended in it. The charge on > > It's called the 'toner fountain' in the manuals, but it actually works > > below atmospheric pressure. The results are that (a) the paper is > > sucked down onto the toner fountain and (b) if the paper is torn > > or runs out you don't get toner sprayed all over the machine room. > The 1200A did not have any mechanism for negative pressure > that I know of. The fountain was in the middle, then there > was a larger, rectangular region around it that returned the > fluid to the container. You could activate the pump while Yes, that's like the V80, but I am pretty sure on that machine the 'fountain' is on the suction side of the pump, that is it sucks from the outer region. When there is paper present this causes toner to flow from the bottle up through the middle bit, then back round the outside to the pump and back to the bottle. Again I might be mis-remembering things... > > The toner is circulated by a little electromangnetic pump. The toner > > system tends to block, I found that what we call 'white spirit' was a > > suitable solvent to unblock it. One time I tried the old 'suck it and > > see' method to get the pump valves working and found that the toner > > tastes horrible! > How could you do that??? Just the smell of the stuff should > have been adequate warning. Got any better ways to unclog the pump? -tony
Re: DG S/130 progress
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Jay West Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:08 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: DG S/130 progress Pictures of the S/130 system I'm building up are at https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02 [... snip long cool progress description ...] Great series of pictures Jay! I planned to work last Saturday on the "dead" PDP-11/10, but got distracted to the NOVA 3 that I have. Probably because I am going to pick up a NOVA 4 (if the description of the guy is correct). After more than a year on a desk, I mounted the 6125 tape drive in the top of the rack with its power supply on the right side next to it. The rest of the system is very much like your system: 6125 tape drive, 6031 single 8" floppy drive, NOVA 3, and in the bottom a 6070 hard disk unit. It would seem that DG didn't believe in anything plugging in to interface boards. Instead, interface boards went in the cpu with no external connectors. Then you wirewrap from the backplane from a given slot to one (of a stack) of paddle boards bolted to the rear of the cpu chassis. Those paddleboards have edge connectors, and that's where you connect the device cable. Fun stuff. Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything. I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally mounted one). My 6125 did power up correctly, but when I mount a tape and press BOT, it spools some tape and then stops. When I press BOT again, it spools again some tape. Did that a few times ... had to manually rewind the tape as REWIND did not work. Could be a missing BOT on the tape, or issues ... So... some progress at least :) Keep posting! I am a "newbie" on DG stuff with a long road ahead. I am not sure whether the NOVA 3 is healthy either. Several bulbs of the console are probably burnt out. I am thinking about a replacement with LEDs as bulbs will continue to die. I have off-line some pages of DG on my website. As this will get more interest (from myself), I will upload them in a moment. At the bottom of the navigation section (left) will be an entry "Data General". Any comment and information is welcome! - Henk
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, et...@757.org wrote: As time goes on more computers become vintage. But, do they all? Are there any that will NEVER be vintage, and still discarded by archeologists thousands of years from now?
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
Sorry old chap just an example. I'm a old DEC guy. My biggest system is a VAX I think the 360 was back in the days when they rented every thing so not much was left behind Mind you I would not turn down a racks worth of AS400 On 14/10/2015 16:05, Jon Elson wrote: On 10/14/2015 09:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Are you actually restoring a 360? I'd sure like to hear more if you are working on this! Jon -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 7:01 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Ben Franchuk > I would get rid of the outer leaves I think I might agree - they don't add much, for the amount of space and complexity they add. Very clever to make them out of PCB traces, though! Noel Now my dumb idea was ... just keep the Video Terminal and have "Vintage Computer..." printed where the keys are as white keys. Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 10:24 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, et...@757.org wrote: As time goes on more computers become vintage. But, do they all? Are there any that will NEVER be vintage, and still discarded by archeologists thousands of years from now? I'm not even sure what "vintage" in the non-wine sense means. Can you press a bunch of Coleco Adams into an alcoholic beverage? --Chuck
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben.
Vintage Computer IBM1130
On 10/14/2015 9:05 AM, Jon Elson wrote: On 10/14/2015 09:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Are you actually restoring a 360? I'd sure like to hear more if you are working on this! Carl has a IBM 1130 http://rescue1130.blogspot.ca/ Jon Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 11:47 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 10/14/2015 10:24 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, et...@757.org wrote: As time goes on more computers become vintage. But, do they all? Are there any that will NEVER be vintage, and still discarded by archeologists thousands of years from now? I'm not even sure what "vintage" in the non-wine sense means. Can you press a bunch of Coleco Adams into an alcoholic beverage? --Chuck Now a Sinclair Z80 computer will hold that door open while you bring that keg of beer...
RE: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben > Sent: 14 October 2015 19:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation > > On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > > OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, > > and Mainframe. > > It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. > > We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of > > system we major in *snip* > > As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. > The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was > it > out in 1975-76? Ben. > > I don't think we got to "Micro, Mini and Mainframe" until we got to 2nd and third generation computers ... 1st generation Valve Computers like the Bendix , Pegasus, EDVAC, Manchester MK1, CSIRAC were just "Computers" and don't conform to the above classes Dave
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX > but was it out in 1975-76? If you mean some specific 74-series part, well, it depends on which one. But, if you mean 74-series logic in general, I think so. Sometime within a year or so of '78, I was working with the stuff, and it was as an undergrad, so I doubt I would have been working with just-released logic. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: DG S/130 progress
On 10/14/2015 11:59 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote: > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Jay West Sent: Wednesday, October > >> It would seem that DG didn't believe in anything plugging in to >> interface boards. Instead, interface boards went in the cpu with no >> external connectors. Then you wirewrap from the backplane from a given >> slot to one (of a stack) of paddle boards bolted to the rear of the >> cpu chassis. Those paddleboards have edge connectors, and that's where >> you connect the device cable. Fun stuff. > > Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything. > I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable > from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable > from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally > mounted one). > On both my Eclipse S/140 and Nova 4 the peripheral cables that go from the backplane to the paddle boards use one or two connectors that slip over the backplane pins instead of wire-wrapping onto the pins. JRJ
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 1:12 PM, Mouse wrote: >> The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX >> but was it out in 1975-76? > > If you mean some specific 74-series part, well, it depends on which > one. > > But, if you mean 74-series logic in general, I think so. Sometime > within a year or so of '78, I was working with the stuff, and it was as > an undergrad, so I doubt I would have been working with just-released > logic. > Absolutely. The TV typewriter was a Sept. 1973 article, and it used 7400 series logic (along with some Signetics stuff). My PDP-8/L, PDP-12 and PDP-11/20 are all chock full of the stuff - mostly SSI but a little MSI. My TI TTL Data Book is copyright 1973, and I have not come across much in the 7400 series TTL that isn't in there. (On the other hand, the EE lab course on computer design was done using DTL logic, with the interconnects using re-purposed IBM unit record machine plugboards). JRJ
RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of tony duell Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:40 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype [ASR33] > This is a very delicate mechanical device. In spite of the fabulous > shipping crate, the bolts installed to secure the printer, the > shipping guys let us down. The thing had very rough handling, sheared > off the shipping bolts, the printer was totally shook up and Wayne and I are working on it to bring it back. A general point. The 'Typing Unit' -- that is the main chassis with the motor, carriage, platen, punch, in fact everything apart from the keyboard, tape reader and electronic unit is not normally bolted down. It rests on rubber mounts. If you are shipping an Model 33, you must either put in a shipping screw, or preferably remove the typing unit (it's just some electrical connections and the H-plate link to the keyboard trip linkage) and pack it separately. Otherwise you will have damage. If it;s a real Teletype as opposed to, say a Data Dynamics 390 (which is Teletype mechanicals in a Data Dynamics case) then note that the plastic cover is likely to have gone very brittle with age. Take care. > You need to understand, and be prepared for handling a mechanical > marvel, that there are virtually no replacement parts. You will have > to be pretty good with your hands, have tools and a shop. This is a > totally mechanical device, and the innovation in it, how it works is so clever you will not get it without some help. All I can say is YMMV (and mine certainly did). I rebuilt my first Model 33 when I was still at what you would call high school. Back then there was no WWW, no places to get manuals, no lists like this one. And I didn't have the paper manuals. I took the whole thing apart down to the last nut and bolt. And got it running. You need a good hand tool kit, but not that much more unless you need to make parts. Perhaps because I had a mis-spent childhood but I had no problems figuring out how it all works. It's not that complicated, it follows very logical principles. > Lots of patience, and when things go wrong (they will) you will need > the perseverance to stick with it. That I will agree with. My first one, working without manuals, took about 6 weeks of tinkering in the evenings after school and at weekends to get going. And it certainly didn't work first time (it almost did, I had misunderstood the print suppression linkage). -tony = - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
I appreciate the advice and I'll keep my eyes out. Vancouver hasn't really been a great place to find these kinds of things; I tend to be totally reliant on ebay, and as mentioned US shipping up to here has skyrocketed (not to mention our CDN dollar tanking). I guess mostly because Vancouver is relatively young and 40-50 years ago would not have been large enough to have a lot of this kind of thing around. I never see anything that vintage in our classifieds/craigs/buysell/etc. -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cory Heisterkamp Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:59 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype I'll throw my two-cents in as I have a fairly modest collection of teletypes. A nice feature of the 32/33 is that the tape punch/reader is built-in, but understand that these were cost-reduced models that can be fairly finicky to get going and keep running. The issue right now is that the market for 33's is pretty hot due to computer folks looking to resurrect their minis, and the buyers usually have deep pockets to match (just check out completed auctions on ebay). I've had pretty good success searching out Craigslist for the generic 'teletype', and one in a while one will pop up. If you're willing to drive, all the better. And if you happen across a model 35 you'll be the envy of many a collector. This is the 8-level version of the 28 and was designed for 24/7 service. Absolutely bullet-proof, but you'll need an outboard punch and reader unless you happen across an ASR model. Check out youtube for a period video of one in action on the Dartmouth TSS. -C On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Brad wrote: > I've been watching a lot of vintage computer videos put up by > enthusiasts (thanks so much for that). I have been really fascinated > lately by the Altair and teletypes, paper tape readers and so on. > Just watching one fellow load BASIC into his Altair. you just felt the > history and the connection to Bill Gates and all the pioneers of an > era that was happening just as I was being born. > > > > I only ever see teletypes for sale on ebay, only in the US, and of > course I don't bite because of shipping costs, plus usually people ask > insane prices for them. I am wondering what a reasonable price should > be for a unit with a paper tape reader, and any tips on how I might go > about finding one beyond Craigs, etc, up here in Canada. And anything > I should watch out for and so on. > > > > Thanks muchly, > > > Brad > > > > - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
Rodents are the enemy of Teletypes. Be sure to check under the hood before you buy! I have a page with some info you can download that covers how to check out a Teletype before you buy it. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Brad wrote: > How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. > That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in > Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of tony > duell > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:40 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Fair price and ways to find a teletype > > > [ASR33] > > > This is a very delicate mechanical device. In spite of the fabulous > > shipping crate, the bolts installed to secure the printer, the > > shipping guys let us down. The thing had very rough handling, sheared > > off the shipping bolts, the printer was totally shook up and Wayne and I > are working on it to bring it back. > > A general point. The 'Typing Unit' -- that is the main chassis with the > motor, carriage, platen, punch, in fact everything apart from the keyboard, > tape reader and electronic unit is not normally bolted down. It rests on > rubber mounts. If you are shipping an Model 33, you must either put in a > shipping screw, or preferably remove the typing unit (it's just some > electrical connections and the H-plate link to the keyboard trip linkage) > and pack it separately. > Otherwise you will have damage. > > If it;s a real Teletype as opposed to, say a Data Dynamics 390 (which is > Teletype mechanicals in a Data Dynamics case) then note that the plastic > cover is likely to have gone very brittle with age. Take care. > > > > You need to understand, and be prepared for handling a mechanical > > marvel, that there are virtually no replacement parts. You will have > > to be pretty good with your hands, have tools and a shop. This is a > > totally mechanical device, and the innovation in it, how it works is so > clever you will not get it without some help. > > All I can say is YMMV (and mine certainly did). I rebuilt my first Model 33 > when I was still at what you would call high school. Back then there was no > WWW, no places to get manuals, no lists like this one. And I didn't have > the > paper manuals. I took the whole thing apart down to the last nut and bolt. > And got it running. You need a good hand tool kit, but not that much more > unless you need to make parts. > > Perhaps because I had a mis-spent childhood but I had no problems figuring > out how it all works. It's not that complicated, it follows very logical > principles. > > > Lots of patience, and when things go wrong (they will) you will need > > the perseverance to stick with it. > > That I will agree with. My first one, working without manuals, took about 6 > weeks of tinkering in the evenings after school and at weekends to get > going. And it certainly didn't work first time (it almost did, I had > misunderstood the print suppression linkage). > > -tony > = > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15 > > -- Bill
RE: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> But, if you mean 74-series logic in general, I think so. Sometime > within a year or so of '78, I was working with the stuff, and it was as > an undergrad, so I doubt I would have been working with just-released > logic. 74xxx logic dates from the late 1960s. There are plenty of production machines from 1970-1972 that are full of it (P850, various PDP11s, HP2100A, HP98x0, etc). So I think the OP must have been thinking of particular parts and their release dates. -tony
Re: Visual 200 (was Visual 100 Terminal - Circuit Diagram Wanted)
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Chote wrote: I know it exists out in the wild somewhere, but I can't find a copy myself. It's for a VT100 clone terminal called the Visual 100 - from around 1982. Mistake on my behalf. Was working on it last night and it's actually the earlier model, the Visual 200. After some basic repairs to the power supply section, I now have a flashing "ON" light on the keyboard which I believe is an error code from the self test (taking queues from the Visual 100 manual). CPU removed - "ON" light stays lit CPU installed - cold start - 3 beeps, then ON light flashes CPU installed - less than 5 minutes since last power up - ON light flashes, no beeps Messing with the Mask ROM in it's socket also created a few scenarios with lots of fast beeps, and the CAPS LOCK key staying lit, but I reseated it and the system returned to the above situation. CRT section doesn't appear to start up, but didn't blow up either, so that's a plus. Have not had a chance to go over it with a scope yet. So if anyone has... - parts list - user guide - circuit diagram - a spare logic board laying around - or remembers anything about these terminals Please let me know! Cheers, Jono
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
On 10/14/2015 12:48 PM, Brad wrote: How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. Well for big things shipping I think it is about the same for the last few years. It is the US mail that is strange ... $3.00* for 3 weeks or $60 for overnight. I expect still cheaper shipping than when new. Note you still need a truck to get from the shippers warehouse. Ben. * I think books still send that way.
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
You can ship these in a box if you detach the pedestal and put it on its side, making sure the main unit is well padded and there is a weight balance to the box, as you never know from what angle the box will sit/fall/land/be carried. I shrink wrap the main TTY to ensure it stays secure, then wrap in layers of bubble wrap and foam. I have shipped five or six that way. You can also use two boxes. It's very easy to re-attach the main unit from the pedestal, many have a reader motor in the pedestal, but you just unscrew it. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, ben wrote: > On 10/14/2015 12:48 PM, Brad wrote: > >> How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. >> That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in >> Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. >> > > Well for big things shipping I think it is about the same for the last few > years. > It is the US mail that is strange ... $3.00* for 3 weeks or $60 for > overnight. I expect still cheaper shipping than when new. Note you still > need a truck to get from the shippers warehouse. > Ben. > * I think books still send that way. > > > > -- Bill
Re: Visual 200 (was Visual 100 Terminal - Circuit Diagram Wanted)
Bare in mind the keyboard keys will likely have to be re-foamed. I had to do that with my Visual 1050, which is the full system version CP/M computer. I'd see if there are similarities to the 1050, I bet the video display circuits would have similarities, you might be able to find 1050 schematics if you can't find exactly what you have. Bill On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Jonathan Chote wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Jonathan Chote > > >> wrote: >> >> I know it exists out in the wild somewhere, but I can't find a copy >>> myself. It's for a VT100 clone terminal called the Visual 100 - from >>> around >>> 1982. >>> >>> >> Mistake on my behalf. Was working on it last night and it's actually the > earlier model, the Visual 200. > > After some basic repairs to the power supply section, I now have a > flashing "ON" light on the keyboard which I believe is an error code from > the self test (taking queues from the Visual 100 manual). > > CPU removed - "ON" light stays lit > CPU installed - cold start - 3 beeps, then ON light flashes > CPU installed - less than 5 minutes since last power up - ON light > flashes, no beeps > > Messing with the Mask ROM in it's socket also created a few scenarios with > lots of fast beeps, and the CAPS LOCK key staying lit, but I reseated it > and the system returned to the above situation. > CRT section doesn't appear to start up, but didn't blow up either, so > that's a plus. Have not had a chance to go over it with a scope yet. > > So if anyone has... > - parts list > - user guide > - circuit diagram > - a spare logic board laying around > - or remembers anything about these terminals > > Please let me know! > > Cheers, > > Jono > -- Bill
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 2015-Oct-14, at 11:12 AM, Mouse wrote: >> The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX >> but was it out in 1975-76? > > If you mean some specific 74-series part, well, it depends on which > one. > > But, if you mean 74-series logic in general, I think so. Sometime > within a year or so of '78, I was working with the stuff, and it was as > an undergrad, so I doubt I would have been working with just-released > logic. From original sources/refs I have kicking around: - The first 54xx devices were introduced by TI in 1965. - 74xx was around by 1966. - H & L was around by 1969. - S was around by 1971. - LS was around by 1973. - ALS was around by 1981. I have a vague recollection of seeing ALS parts with 79 date codes. I suspect ben(OP) was alluding to when now-current or last-current TTL was introduced.
RE: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> > I don't think we got to "Micro, Mini and Mainframe" until we got to 2nd and > third generation computers > > ... 1st generation Valve Computers like the Bendix , Pegasus, EDVAC, > Manchester MK1, CSIRAC were just "Computers" and don't conform to the above > classes > Fred - where are you - come quick! Somebody said 1st generation on this list! Why haven't you got this covered :-) Oh never mind, I'll do it: "What about the Antikythera machine?" Ps: I'm not sure about the logo. It doesn't have the ADM3A ashtray and the keyboard doesn't look wide enough for the ADM5 layout including the numeric keypad on the right. Is/was there such a thing as an ADM4? Pps: I could never fathom the affection felt for the ADM3A - at college we had a lab containing a bunch of ADM5s and a single ADM3A. Everybody would work away on the ADM5s while the ADM3A sat lonely and unloved because most found it difficult to clear the screen on it (switching it off and back on worked if you got stuck!) and couldn't figure out how to get the PF keys when using it to talk to the IBM mainframe in fullscreen mode via 7171 protocol converters. Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
I have in front of me my copy of the TTL databook for Design Engineers Its dated 1973. Its full of 74 series logic. Rod Smallwood On 14/10/2015 19:04, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
Ps: I'm not sure about the logo. It doesn't have the ADM3A ashtray and the keyboard doesn't look wide enough for the ADM5 layout including the numeric keypad on the right. Is/was there such a thing as an ADM4? That part of the image is only meant to * evoke * a terminal -- which it did.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
- Original Message - From: "ben" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:17 AM Subject: Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation > > I would get rid of the outer leaves and put just Vintage Computer > Federation there instead. A tube, transistor and a early DTL? gate ic > could go in the white space between the words Vintage Computer > Federation. K.I.S.S works for logos. > > Ben. > Agreed. I also noticed that the outer circumference (outer most part of the logo) doesn't appear to be a true circle, but more polygonal instead! (look *really* carefully) Was is created using some 3d rendering software???
Vintage Computer TTL
On 10/14/2015 12:12 PM, Mouse wrote: The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? If you mean some specific 74-series part, well, it depends on which one. But, if you mean 74-series logic in general, I think so. Sometime within a year or so of '78, I was working with the stuff, and it was as an undergrad, so I doubt I would have been working with just-released logic. The design uses 74LS for low power and more drive, but nothing off hand not found in regular TTL, since this version uses random logic. A microcoded CPU needs 512 x 8 roms and 5 input Nor's (LS) something not found in the mid 70's I am guessing. Most of timing is ball park but still a good feel for TTL logic. Now pricing is harder to find ... surplus 3 7400's for 10 cents to $30 for prime new chips. Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
>As time goes on more computers become vintage. ...as do their owners... (: Terry (Tez) On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:49 AM, Andrew Burton wrote: > > > - Original Message - > From: "ben" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:17 AM > Subject: Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation > > > > > I would get rid of the outer leaves and put just Vintage Computer > > Federation there instead. A tube, transistor and a early DTL? gate ic > > could go in the white space between the words Vintage Computer > > Federation. K.I.S.S works for logos. > > > > Ben. > > > > > Agreed. > > I also noticed that the outer circumference (outer most part of the logo) > doesn't appear to be a true circle, but more polygonal instead! (look > *really* carefully) > Was is created using some 3d rendering software??? > >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 11:04 AM, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. You forgot "midicomputer". Once a very hot thing, long ago...sigh. --Chuck
Re: The Burroughs B5900 and E-Mode
I stumbled upon that site a few months ago ... It's a great read! I wish he wrote more :O Best, Sean On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > I don't know if this memoir is well-known or not, but I thought it > might interest. > > « > > The Burroughs B5900 and E-Mode > A bridge to 21st Century Computing > > By Jack Allweiss Copyright 2010 > > My name is Jack A. Allweiss, also known as “The Father of the B5900 > System”. I did not give myself that title, my friends and co-workers > at Burroughs Corporation did, and I consider it a great honor. This > true story is about the B5900, and why it was an important milestone > for Burroughs and later Unisys, as well as the computer industry in > general. > » > > http://jack.hoa.org/hoajaa/BurrMain.html > > -- > Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven > MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven > Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR) >
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 1:45 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: From original sources/refs I have kicking around: - The first 54xx devices were introduced by TI in 1965. - 74xx was around by 1966. - H & L was around by 1969. - S was around by 1971. - LS was around by 1973. - ALS was around by 1981. I have a vague recollection of seeing ALS parts with 79 date codes. I suspect ben(OP) was alluding to when now-current or last-current TTL was introduced. I found a Fast databook from ~1980 from bitsavers. It is the odd chips that are harder to find like 6 bit identity comparator. Not that I need one, but it was on a S100 bus board I had once.Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 1:48 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: I have in front of me my copy of the TTL databook for Design Engineers Its dated 1973. Its full of 74 series logic. Rod Smallwood It's on my kindle,PC and tablet in digital form. Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 12:48 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: I have in front of me my copy of the TTL databook for Design Engineers Its dated 1973. Its full of 74 series logic. I have in front of me, the big thick brown "The Microelectronics Data Book" from Motorola, dated 1969. There were already several families of TTL: 5400/7400 (which I assume are copies of the TI SN54/74xx devices). MHTL, MTTL I, II and III (MC500, 2100, 3100 devices), and the MTTL Complex Functions (MC4000 series; 16-bit memory, decoders, parity tree, quad flip-flop). By 1969, there were imitations of the TI line as well as quite a bit of diversity. TTL takes up fully half of the book, with DTL, RTL and ECL bringing up the rear. --Chuck
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 2:36 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 10/14/2015 11:04 AM, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. You forgot "midicomputer". Once a very hot thing, long ago...sigh. What is a midi-computer? --Chuck Ben.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> On Oct 14, 2015, at 4:50 PM, ben wrote: > > On 10/14/2015 2:36 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> On 10/14/2015 11:04 AM, ben wrote: >>> On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in *snip* >>> >>> As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home >>> Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use >>> 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. >> >> You forgot "midicomputer". Once a very hot thing, long ago...sigh. > > What is a midi-computer? >> --Chuck Something a bit bigger than a mini. I think some marketeers tried to use that term for their answer to the VAX. It obviously didn't go very far, given that hardly anyone remembers the term. I'm not sure who specifically used it. Prime, perhaps? paul
HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On a sudden impulse, I put in a bid for an HP1663A logic analyzer for $30 and won for $29. Just got the thing--it's essentially in like-new condition--not even a scratch, no CRT burn and comes with the original set of pods and grabbers. Not so much as a fingerprint anywhere--even the line cord is clean. Must have come from a rental place. I've got the user and programming manuals, but that keyboard jack in the back has me befuddled. It's an RJ45 modular jack with the middle 4 positions populated. The manual only refers to it as a "standard" keyboard and mouse connector. What does that mean, exactly? What kind of signals does this "standard" keyboard use? Thanks, Chuck
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
HP-HIL. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On a sudden impulse, I put in a bid for an HP1663A logic analyzer for $30 > and won for $29. Just got the thing--it's essentially in like-new > condition--not even a scratch, no CRT burn and comes with the original set > of pods and grabbers. Not so much as a fingerprint anywhere--even the line > cord is clean. Must have come from a rental place. > > I've got the user and programming manuals, but that keyboard jack in the > back has me befuddled. It's an RJ45 modular jack with the middle 4 > positions populated. The manual only refers to it as a "standard" keyboard > and mouse connector. What does that mean, exactly? What kind of signals > does this "standard" keyboard use? > > Thanks, > Chuck > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 10/14/2015 11:04 AM, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely > Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three > classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but > it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. You forgot "midicomputer". Once a very hot thing, long ago...sigh. Shouldn't it be microcomputer, minicomputer, midicomputer and maxicomputer? (think skirts) Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
I also noticed that the outer circumference (outer most part of the logo) doesn't appear to be a true circle, but more polygonal instead! (look*really* carefully) Was is created using some 3d rendering software??? Good eye! Yes, we used a 3D CAD program, so that someday we could make models of the logo.
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 01:50 PM, ben wrote: What is a midi-computer? Well, a web search brings up this as the first entry: "An earlier term for a computer with performance and capacity between a minicomputer and a mainframe. " A CW 1979 article about the Association of Computer Users (ACU) it as "a computer costing between $50,000 and $200,000). --Chuck
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
Nice score on the HP 1663A. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321884393529?orig_cvip=true You would probably end up paying more for an HP-HIL keyboard such as an 46021A than you did for the 1663A. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Ian Finder wrote: > HP-HIL. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> On a sudden impulse, I put in a bid for an HP1663A logic analyzer for $30 >> and won for $29. Just got the thing--it's essentially in like-new >> condition--not even a scratch, no CRT burn and comes with the original set >> of pods and grabbers. Not so much as a fingerprint anywhere--even the line >> cord is clean. Must have come from a rental place. >> >> I've got the user and programming manuals, but that keyboard jack in the >> back has me befuddled. It's an RJ45 modular jack with the middle 4 >> positions populated. The manual only refers to it as a "standard" keyboard >> and mouse connector. What does that mean, exactly? What kind of signals >> does this "standard" keyboard use? >> >> Thanks, >> Chuck >> > > > > -- >Ian Finder >(206) 395-MIPS >ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On 10/14/2015 01:57 PM, Ian Finder wrote: HP-HIL. That's what I suspected. Thanks! --Chuck
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 2:57 PM, Mike Loewen wrote: On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 10/14/2015 11:04 AM, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 8:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely > Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three > classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but > it should say what type of system we major in *snip* As I am building a 70's TTL computer in a FPGA, you forgot Home Brew. The hardest part is finding parts for the FPGA, sure I can use 74XXX but was it out in 1975-76? Ben. You forgot "midicomputer". Once a very hot thing, long ago...sigh. Shouldn't it be microcomputer, minicomputer, midicomputer and maxicomputer? (think skirts) Mike Loewenmloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/ Where do sign up for the Vintage Mini-skirt list ...
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 3:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 10/14/2015 01:50 PM, ben wrote: What is a midi-computer? Well, a web search brings up this as the first entry: "An earlier term for a computer with performance and capacity between a minicomputer and a mainframe. " A CW 1979 article about the Association of Computer Users (ACU) it as "a computer costing between $50,000 and $200,000). Oh! an APPLE I found on ebay. --Chuck
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On 10/14/2015 3:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On a sudden impulse, I put in a bid for an HP1663A logic analyzer for > $30 and won for $29. Just got the thing--it's essentially in like-new > condition--not even a scratch, no CRT burn and comes with the original > set of pods and grabbers. Not so much as a fingerprint anywhere--even > the line cord is clean. Must have come from a rental place. > > I've got the user and programming manuals, but that keyboard jack in the > back has me befuddled. It's an RJ45 modular jack with the middle 4 > positions populated. The manual only refers to it as a "standard" > keyboard and mouse connector. What does that mean, exactly? What kind > of signals does this "standard" keyboard use? > > Thanks, > Chuck > HP HIL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIL_bus That is why I held out for my 1672 - it has PS/2 keyboard and mouse, and Ethernet. JRJ
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 01:53 PM, Paul Koning wrote: Something a bit bigger than a mini. I think some marketeers tried to use that term for their answer to the VAX. It obviously didn't go very far, given that hardly anyone remembers the term. I'm not sure who specifically used it. Prime, perhaps? Harris, for one. A quick google through CW shows an early mention in 1975 and a late one in 1984. So longer, apparently, that most people think. --Chuck
8" hard sector (Was DG S/130 status)
I found a company selling new 8" 32-sector hard sector floppies. http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html Item # 47-0801 They want $150 per box of 10. That's a pretty hefty pricetag... but in the absence of other suppliers I may just have to break down and buy a box from them. J
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On 10/14/2015 02:08 PM, Glen Slick wrote: Nice score on the HP 1663A. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321884393529?orig_cvip=true You would probably end up paying more for an HP-HIL keyboard such as an 46021A than you did for the 1663A. A quick check on prices for a HP A4220-62001, adapter seems to show that they aren't terribly expensive. --Chuck
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: Well, a web search brings up this as the first entry: "An earlier term for a computer with performance and capacity between a minicomputer and a mainframe. " A CW 1979 article about the Association of Computer Users (ACU) it as "a computer costing between $50,000 and $200,000). It requires a crew to move it, but they don't have to be union. You can lose a screw or a jumper in a Micro You can lose a multimeter in a Mini you can lose a scope in a Midi you can lose a technician in a Mainframe.
RE: DG S/130 progress
Henk wrote... >Great series of pictures Jay! Thanks! Most of those pics are "so I don't forget where wires go", but some of them are presentable :) >After more than a year on a desk, I mounted the 6125 tape drive in the top of the rack with its power supply on the right side next to it. I went to mount my 6125 today, but alas I may have to get creative. My 6125 was in a "desktop" stand, and when I remove the power supply and also look at the DG Installation docs - it appears that they used a different sheet metal backing to mount the 6125 in a rack (on the side, as you say) rather than on the desktop unit. I was sooo hoping to just remove and mount. Well, either they used different metal or my vertical posts are spaced different than expected. I don't think it's the latter, because all the measurements matched with the installation guide for the cpu and the 6030 disk unit. Hu.. looking at pictures... it's the former. The sheet metal the PS is mounted on is definitely shorter (left to right) on mine than what is pictured. I guess I now have a use for the metal brake that I just bought yesterday that is still in my car ;) >Indeed! I feel like being spoiled by DEC with connectors for everything. Anything I would say to that would probably start a flame-war between DEC and DG enthusiasts, so I'll just leave that one alone ;) >I have the controller board for the 6125, but I do not have the cable from the backplane to the paddle board. I *think* I do have the cable from the paddle board to the pin header on the 6125 board (the horizontally mounted one). As Bruce pointed out to me, there are actually only a few different backplane wirings. Since it hasn't been rackmounted yet, I haven't gone searching all the DG racks to see if I have any of the internal or external or device cables for the 6125. We'll see. I suspect I will have to make all my own cables; all my DG gear came from two collectors in separate acquisitions - with one exception. This 6125 I bought off a shelf at the local electronics haunt years ago, and it had no cables. >My 6125 did power up correctly, but when I mount a tape and press BOT, it spools some tape and then stops. When I press BOT again, it spools again some tape. Did that a few times ... had to manually rewind the tape as REWIND did not work. Could be a missing BOT on the tape, or issues ... If there's no BOT tape on the tape, yeah. If there is, I'd look first at testing the BOT/EOT sensor. I think there's a procedure for that in the manual. ISTR that when it hits the BOT tape, it actually backs up a little so it can get a "running jump". >Keep posting! I am a "newbie" on DG stuff with a long road ahead. Ditto here, new to DG gear as well. Bruce has been a great help, but pouring over docs for hours has been invaluable. Best, J
Re: DG S/130 progress
Jay, have you tried floppydisk.com? Their site only shows 3.5 and 5.25" floppies, but they do have 8" too (although not cheap). Not sure if they'll have the hard-sectored ones but they have SSSD soft-sectored (for my RX01) at $90 for a pack of ten. Going rate on ebay is $25-35 a pack...
Decmate Owner's Guide (or equivalent experience)
Hi Folks, Does anyone have a electronic copy of the original Decmate Owner’s Guide (AA-K330C-TA) that they could share? Alternatively, can anyone describe what can be accomplished (if anything) from the initial “Setup” prompt on a VT278 *without* any disks attached? The situation is that Brent and I are trying to resurrect a Decmate — we’ve plugged in a VT100 keyboard (Thanks, Bill!): - it boots to the “Setup” prompt with the flashing cursor. - the “Power” light on the rear of the unit is steady and the “CPU OK” light is blinking. - the keyboard lights indicate “online" - pressing ‘2’ or ‘PF3’ cause “Setup” to disappear. ‘3’ seems to cause it to perform some self-test like procedure. - most keys cause keyclicks, but ‘space’, ‘M’, and ‘/' don’t. With an oscilloscope, we can see data from the keyboard being sent for the “silent” keys, however. Without disks, what else should we able to do? Eventually, we’d like to find or construct some solution for mass storage, but we’re still at the point of checking out the VT278 itself. Thanks, Rob Ferguson
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
If that's the one I'm thinking of, it's not an active adapter- it was more akin to a breakout- and went to (and *only* to) the HP 715. There's no way to cheat that I know of, you need to find an actual HIL keyboard. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 10/14/2015 02:08 PM, Glen Slick wrote: > >> Nice score on the HP 1663A. >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321884393529?orig_cvip=true >> >> You would probably end up paying more for an HP-HIL keyboard such as >> an 46021A than you did for the 1663A. >> > > A quick check on prices for a HP A4220-62001, adapter seems to show that > they aren't terribly expensive. > > --Chuck > > > > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 3:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Wed, 14 Oct 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: Well, a web search brings up this as the first entry: "An earlier term for a computer with performance and capacity between a minicomputer and a mainframe. " A CW 1979 article about the Association of Computer Users (ACU) it as "a computer costing between $50,000 and $200,000). It requires a crew to move it, but they don't have to be union. You can lose a screw or a jumper in a Micro You can lose a multimeter in a Mini you can lose a scope in a Midi you can lose a technician in a Mainframe. you can lose your lovers with a Cray
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > A quick check on prices for a HP A4220-62001, adapter seems to show that > they aren't terribly expensive. > It has never been clear to me whether those adapter boxes actually do what you would want to do here, i.e. allow you to plug a PS/2 keyboard and/or mouse into an HP-HIL host port and allow the PS/2 devices to function as native HP-HIL devices. Some references on the net indicate that at least some of those adapter boxes were really just passive breakout boxes where the host natively supported both HP-HIL and PS/2 protocols but just had a proprietary connector that needed to be broken out into HP-HIL and PS/2 connectors.
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Glen Slick wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > > > A quick check on prices for a HP A4220-62001, adapter seems to show that > > they aren't terribly expensive. > > > > It has never been clear to me whether those adapter boxes actually do > what you would want to do here, i.e. allow you to plug a PS/2 keyboard > and/or mouse into an HP-HIL host port and allow the PS/2 devices to > function as native HP-HIL devices. > > Some references on the net indicate that at least some of those > adapter boxes were really just passive breakout boxes where the host > natively supported both HP-HIL and PS/2 protocols but just had a > proprietary connector that needed to be broken out into HP-HIL and > PS/2 connectors. > I have one sitting in a drawer at home, I can crack it open tonight if anyone's curious what's inside ;). - Josh
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On 10/14/15 3:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: I have one sitting in a drawer at home, I can crack it open tonight if anyone's curious what's inside ;). Did that a while ago, and they are passive. They are designed to work with a PA-RISC workstation that can deal with either kind of keyboard on the same connector
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
I'm curious to see for sure. In fact I may need one for my HP 715. But I'm also 99.9% sure it is not useful for what Chuck has in mind. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Glen Slick wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > > > > > A quick check on prices for a HP A4220-62001, adapter seems to show > that > > > they aren't terribly expensive. > > > > > > > It has never been clear to me whether those adapter boxes actually do > > what you would want to do here, i.e. allow you to plug a PS/2 keyboard > > and/or mouse into an HP-HIL host port and allow the PS/2 devices to > > function as native HP-HIL devices. > > > > Some references on the net indicate that at least some of those > > adapter boxes were really just passive breakout boxes where the host > > natively supported both HP-HIL and PS/2 protocols but just had a > > proprietary connector that needed to be broken out into HP-HIL and > > PS/2 connectors. > > > > I have one sitting in a drawer at home, I can crack it open tonight if > anyone's curious what's inside ;). > > - Josh > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: > OK so if we agree there are three classes computer > Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. > It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. A man in a black suit and skinny tie came by and asked that we not forget the Midrange (System/3, System/3x, AS/400...)
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
> A man in a black suit and skinny tie came by and asked that we not > forget the Midrange (System/3, System/3x, AS/400…) I do not think IBM ever really did black suits. Navy blue and dark grey, although the skinny tie era was before these machines (maybe the fat, good-for-eatin'-ribs ties of the 1970s would work). Anyway, "midrange" was a dumb marketing term that they forced on us. They are all really minis, no matter who does not want to admit it. -- Will
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
Brad, A few montns ago, with a fair bit of help of the folks on this list, I did up an Altair 8800 rebuild. And apparently you & I both saw the same videos, as I got all hot and bothered about getting an ASR33 and using it to load software - BASIC, for starters - into the Altair. And again, on members' suggestion, I joined the Greenkeys list. Too bad, but I was totally +shocked+ at the 'value' placed on ASR33 these days!! Thousand dollars and more, not all all unusual.. and my resources just can't justify that level of expenditure for what is generally a 'cheap' DIY hobby of sorts. Meanwhile, a Greenkeys member in St. Louis, MO popped up with a very nice M15 (ex-Bell) that was Free to Good Home. I have (or at least had, ha!) a good friend in St. Louis, and he was able to take care of the pickup for me - and several months later, i arranged to have it delivered to my house by a relative. Now the M15 isn't a 33ASR, and lacks the paper tape punch & reader (though devices do exist). But what it is, is a truly fantastic piece of electro-mechanical engineering that borders on the "tight metal" genre of some earlier business machines, such as the Felt & Tarrant Comptometer. If you have general mechanical experience, I'd say the M15 is roughly on a par with a 2-spd or even 3-spd automatic transmission, in terms of mechanical complexity (the the tranny will have a higher parts count.. I think!). So while they can be worked with, and documentation is plentiful, they are a bit intimidating the first time you see one in action - or inaction, as it may be - and they do NOT respond kindly to false moves or other ham-fistery. But they are well worth learning, and don't yet seem to have joined their later progeny in the financial stratosphere. -Bill On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:39 PM, william degnan wrote: > You can ship these in a box if you detach the pedestal and put it on its > side, making sure the main unit is well padded and there is a weight > balance to the box, as you never know from what angle the box will > sit/fall/land/be carried. I shrink wrap the main TTY to ensure it stays > secure, then wrap in layers of bubble wrap and foam. I have shipped five > or six that way. You can also use two boxes. It's very easy to re-attach > the main unit from the pedestal, many have a reader motor in the pedestal, > but you just unscrew it. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, ben wrote: > > > On 10/14/2015 12:48 PM, Brad wrote: > > > >> How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. > >> That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in > >> Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. > >> > > > > Well for big things shipping I think it is about the same for the last > few > > years. > > It is the US mail that is strange ... $3.00* for 3 weeks or $60 for > > overnight. I expect still cheaper shipping than when new. Note you still > > need a truck to get from the shippers warehouse. > > Ben. > > * I think books still send that way. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Bill >
Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype
Be patient. 75 dollar 33s still exist Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: "drlegendre ." Date: 10/14/2015 16:34 (GMT-07:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Fair price and ways to find a teletype Brad, A few montns ago, with a fair bit of help of the folks on this list, I did up an Altair 8800 rebuild. And apparently you & I both saw the same videos, as I got all hot and bothered about getting an ASR33 and using it to load software - BASIC, for starters - into the Altair. And again, on members' suggestion, I joined the Greenkeys list. Too bad, but I was totally +shocked+ at the 'value' placed on ASR33 these days!! Thousand dollars and more, not all all unusual.. and my resources just can't justify that level of expenditure for what is generally a 'cheap' DIY hobby of sorts. Meanwhile, a Greenkeys member in St. Louis, MO popped up with a very nice M15 (ex-Bell) that was Free to Good Home. I have (or at least had, ha!) a good friend in St. Louis, and he was able to take care of the pickup for me - and several months later, i arranged to have it delivered to my house by a relative. Now the M15 isn't a 33ASR, and lacks the paper tape punch & reader (though devices do exist). But what it is, is a truly fantastic piece of electro-mechanical engineering that borders on the "tight metal" genre of some earlier business machines, such as the Felt & Tarrant Comptometer. If you have general mechanical experience, I'd say the M15 is roughly on a par with a 2-spd or even 3-spd automatic transmission, in terms of mechanical complexity (the the tranny will have a higher parts count.. I think!). So while they can be worked with, and documentation is plentiful, they are a bit intimidating the first time you see one in action - or inaction, as it may be - and they do NOT respond kindly to false moves or other ham-fistery. But they are well worth learning, and don't yet seem to have joined their later progeny in the financial stratosphere. -Bill On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:39 PM, william degnan wrote: > You can ship these in a box if you detach the pedestal and put it on its > side, making sure the main unit is well padded and there is a weight > balance to the box, as you never know from what angle the box will > sit/fall/land/be carried. I shrink wrap the main TTY to ensure it stays > secure, then wrap in layers of bubble wrap and foam. I have shipped five > or six that way. You can also use two boxes. It's very easy to re-attach > the main unit from the pedestal, many have a reader motor in the pedestal, > but you just unscrew it. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:28 PM, ben wrote: > > > On 10/14/2015 12:48 PM, Brad wrote: > > > >> How heavy are these things? They look like solid steel in pictures. > >> That's one of the things that presents a big problem for me up here in > >> Canada... shipping from the US has gotten outrageously expensive. > >> > > > > Well for big things shipping I think it is about the same for the last > few > > years. > > It is the US mail that is strange ... $3.00* for 3 weeks or $60 for > > overnight. I expect still cheaper shipping than when new. Note you still > > need a truck to get from the shippers warehouse. > > Ben. > > * I think books still send that way. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Bill >
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
On 10/14/2015 03:58 PM, Ian Finder wrote: I'm curious to see for sure. In fact I may need one for my HP 715. But I'm also 99.9% sure it is not useful for what Chuck has in mind. I think you're right. Check out the conversation here: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.rescue/19389 Note the post by Brian Wheeler giving the pinout. Clearly, in this case, the 715 supports both and it's just a matter of passive connections. That's not the case for the 1663 logic analyzer. Ah, well. --Chuck
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:32 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > I do not think IBM ever really did black suits. Navy blue and dark > grey, although the skinny tie era was before these machines (maybe the > fat, good-for-eatin'-ribs ties of the 1970s would work). Ah yeah, but I imagined stodgy IBM never giving in to trends on the tie issue. And you're right, black would be too elegant. Business-grey is the way. > Anyway, "midrange" was a dumb marketing term that they forced on us. > They are all really minis, no matter who does not want to admit it. That's the way I took it - IBM insisting on their own lexicon. Was Midrange ever used by anyone else?
IBM 029
Someone on FB pointed out that the 029 was announced this day in 1964. I've got one as well as a 129. I didn't realize they were that old of a product. The 029 was the first keypunch I used in school. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV4002.html Thanks Jim
Re: HP 1663A Logic Analyzer keyboard
ons 2015-10-14 klockan 13:57 -0700 skrev Ian Finder: > HP-HIL. > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Chuck Guzis > wrote: The HP HCL speaks about a HIL-only host (SPU) to PS/2-keyboard adapter from mic.com The 9000/715 (and 725/100) computers had a special HIL-port (SMD-10) which required an break-out box. It seems to exist a PS/2 (system)-to-HIL (keyboard/mouse) for those who likes their old HIL keyboards. OR have sw which requires the identity HIL dongle.
Re: VT52s, VT61s lots of DEC and DG keyboards- return trip through Maine, MA, NY, PA, OH, IN to IL
On 10/14/2015 11:46 AM, tony duell wrote: [Versatec paper feed motors] Yes, absolutely, on the Versatec 1200A. I put those motors in a milling machine. Big, round case stepper motors, with a ghastly resistor-transistor drive. You've got me worried now... I have V80. Actually, it's ICL-badged, and has a GPIB adapter board at the back connected to the normal parallel port [1]. I was prepared to swear the motor in that is a normal DC motor, but perhaps I have misremembered it. I really don't want to strip it down tonight, and finding the manuals [2] Is an even bigger job. Versatec made a lot of stuff, and went through a whole bunch of iterations. But, a stepper seems MOST logical to advance the paper every time the line has been written. A stepper is great to start and stop on a dime, and otherwise stay perfectly in synch with intermittent data from the computer. The motor drive is inside the hinged top of the printer, but no telling if the V80 was built the same way. Yes, that's like the V80, but I am pretty sure on that machine the 'fountain' is on the suction side of the pump, that is it sucks from the outer region. I can absolutely say the 1200A did not work that way, as you could manually start the fountain pump with the cover open. Now that I think about it more, I don't think you were supposed to be able to do that, but you could push a relay manually to do it. Without the paper there, it could overflow if you let the pump run too long. When there is paper present this causes toner to flow from the bottle up through the middle bit, then back round the outside to the pump and back to the bottle. Again I might be mis-remembering things... That makes some sense, as it makes it pretty impossible to cause a spill. But, it probably takes a lot longer to get the fountain started that way. How could you do that??? Just the smell of the stuff should have been adequate warning. Got any better ways to unclog the pump? We never, ever had the pump clog. Sometimes we needed to clean gunk out of the fountain area, but the pumps were never a problem. The pump ran filled with the toner, and was below toner level in the bottle. Sometimes if you hadn't printed in a while, the first page would come out partially blank, but then it would get going and work fine. Not sure if the V80 worked the same way, it sounds like maybe it was allowed to drip down and go dry when not printing. That might have been the cause of the clogging. Jon
Re: New logo: Vintage Computer Federation
On 10/14/2015 12:34 PM, Rod Smallwood wrote: Sorry old chap just an example. I'm a old DEC guy. My biggest system is a VAX I think the 360 was back in the days when they rented every thing so not much was left behind Mind you I would not turn down a racks worth of AS400 In the EARLY days of the 360, that was true, but in later days many people owned their machines. Washington University rented their 360/50, but then bought a used 360/65, and then added two used 370/145s. Despite the number of 360s made, there are REALLY few left, and I'm not sure anybody has any that run. (Of course, with the SLT modules, spares would be a REAL problem.) Yup, for sentimental reasons, I still have my MicroVAX-II here. Jon
Re: Vintage Computer IBM1130
On 10/14/2015 01:07 PM, ben wrote: On 10/14/2015 9:05 AM, Jon Elson wrote: On 10/14/2015 09:15 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: OK so if we agree there are three classes computer Namely Micro,Mini, and Mainframe. It follows that there must be three classes of vintage computer. We dont need patches with pictures but it should say what type of system we major in For example Rod's Retro Restorations - IBM360 Are you actually restoring a 360? I'd sure like to hear more if you are working on this! Carl has a IBM 1130 http://rescue1130.blogspot.ca/ Fascinating! And, of course, with discrete transistors, it should not be that hard to keep the electronics running. The mechanicals look like a pretty major repair project, though! Jon
Re: Vintage Computer IBM1130
On 10/14/2015 9:21 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Carl has a IBM 1130 http://rescue1130.blogspot.ca/ Fascinating! And, of course, with discrete transistors, it should not be that hard to keep the electronics running. The mechanicals look like a pretty major repair project, though! NO TRANSISTORS ... IBM's special logic for 1965. Jon
Re: 8" hard sector (Was DG S/130 status)
I could spare one - but probably only one. JRJ On 10/14/2015 4:17 PM, Jay West wrote: > I found a company selling new 8" 32-sector hard sector floppies. > > http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html Item # 47-0801 > > They want $150 per box of 10. That's a pretty hefty pricetag... but in the > absence of other suppliers I may just have to break down and buy a box from > them. > > J > > >
Re: 8" hard sector (Was DG S/130 status)
On 10/14/2015 9:39 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: I could spare one - but probably only one. JRJ Did they ever make punch to make your own? Ben.
Re: DG S/130 progress
Hello, I'm almost sure that the DG dual 8" uses hard-sectored floppies with 32 sectors (33 holes). The internal logic will generate sync signals for 8 sectors starting from the 32 on the floppy. So industry standard hard-sectored floppies should be fine. You need to use formatted disks, DG supplied floppies already formatted, and the OS cannot format it. But: the drive itself has a format mode, so using a special formatter program (available at least on paper tape), you can format disks. Interesting thing (I think): as I have a Nova 3 with 6030 floppy, which I would restore when time will allow me to, and as I have no media to start the machine from, I searched a way to write new media from PC. Then I developed a tool to connect it to PC via serial, using the console port; this tool is somehow similar to VTserver for PDP11 realm, but more expandable. Basically, you can do memory transfers between Nova and PC (both directions), and execute almost *ANY* I/O instruction on the Nova, under the strict direction of the PC. On the PC, a tool developed in Python is used to bootstrap a special binary program (using Program Load feature on Nova), and then to execute special scripts, prepared for particular disk and/or tape peripherals, to dump a device to image file (compatible with SIMH), dump an image file to device, format a disk, and so on... As all these procedures are controlled remotely by the PC, on the Nova always sits the very same small binary code, thus supporting new peripherals should be very easy, once one understands how the whole stuff works. I already developed (and debugged using an emulated Nova3 on SIMH) all is needed to read/write/format disks on 6030. I think the very same code should work on the S/130, so if you want you could give a try. Interested? Andrea
Re: PDP8 / ETOS
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:06:25AM -0600, Joe wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 09:56:36AM -0600, Joe wrote: > Thanks for the response. I guess not to many people have messed around with > Multos8 or ETOS. > You using my copy or do you have your own? Using emulator or real machine? > I'm trying to add an OS/8 disk pack so I can mess around with the > timesharing on two terminals. > Using SIMH since I only have one RK05 on the machine right now. [djg@laptop BIN]$ ./pdp8 PDP-8 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: d4720d35 sim> att rk0 etosv5b-demo.rk05 sim> att rk1 diagpack2.rk05 sim> set tsc enabled sim> bo rk0 .R ETOS ETOS V5B OPTION?T ?LOGIN PLEASE !LOGIN ETOS V5B AT 00:00:00 A.M. ON TUE 01-JAN-75 ACCOUNT? 0,4 PASSWORD? JOB 3 LOGGED IN ON CONSOLE 0 WELCOME TO DAVID GESSWEIN'S ETOS SYSTEM TYPE HELP TO OBTAIN ASSISTANCE .^VS !ASSIGN DK1 !CONT .^VS !LOOKUP 5=DK1:,0 !CONT .DIR CHN5: 01-JAN-75 ABSLDR.SV 6 04-JAN-73 CCL .SV 31 04-JAN-73 DIRECT.SV 7 04-JAN-73 PIP .SV 11 04-JAN-73 FOTP .SV 8 04-JAN-73 ...
Re: DG S/130 progress
On 10/14/2015 3:44 PM, shad wrote: > Then I developed a tool to connect it to PC via serial, using the > console port; > this tool is somehow similar to VTserver for PDP11 realm, but more > expandable. > Basically, you can do memory transfers between Nova and PC (both > directions), and > execute almost *ANY* I/O instruction on the Nova, under the strict > direction of the PC. > On the PC, a tool developed in Python is used to bootstrap a special > binary program (using Program Load feature on Nova), > and then to execute special scripts, prepared for particular disk and/or > tape peripherals, to dump a device to image file (compatible with SIMH), > dump an image file to device, format a disk, and so on... > As all these procedures are controlled remotely by the PC, on the Nova > always sits the very same small binary code, > thus supporting new peripherals should be very easy, once one > understands how the whole stuff works. > > I already developed (and debugged using an emulated Nova3 on SIMH) all > is needed to read/write/format disks on 6030. > I think the very same code should work on the S/130, so if you want you > could give a try. > I'd love a copy of that for my archives, in case I ever need to do anything like that. JRJ
RE: DG S/130 progress
Shadoo wrote... - Then I developed a tool to connect it to PC via serial, using the console port; this tool is somehow similar to VTserver for PDP11 realm, but more expandable. Basically, you can do memory transfers between Nova and PC (both directions), and execute almost *ANY* I/O instruction on the Nova, under the strict direction of the PC. On the PC, a tool developed in Python is used to bootstrap a special binary program (using Program Load feature on Nova), and then to execute special scripts, prepared for particular disk and/or tape peripherals, to dump a device to image file (compatible with SIMH), dump an image file to device, format a disk, and so on... As all these procedures are controlled remotely by the PC, on the Nova always sits the very same small binary code, thus supporting new peripherals should be very easy, once one understands how the whole stuff works. I already developed (and debugged using an emulated Nova3 on SIMH) all is needed to read/write/format disks on 6030. I think the very same code should work on the S/130, so if you want you could give a try. Interested? - YES. Send me details off-list. Also, you wouldn't happen to have a bootable diskette for the 6030 you could send me would you? I'd just like one that is bootable (don't care what it boots) for testing purposes! J
