Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[Ken Hohhof]

I’d have to go back to my class notes from 5 years ago, I’m not sure they 
stated a maximum.  I’m sure the cloud system that acts as the intermediary 
between us and the SAS (cnMaestro if you’re using Cambium) will reject numbers 
beyond a certain point.

 

There’s no advantage to doing that, it just makes it more likely your grant 
will be denied or terminated.  Also you have to state azimuth, elevation, and 
beamwidth, and those would be invalid if you changed the location or height by 
1 km.

 

Keep in mind that low power or indoor (class A) CBSDs don’t have to register 
with the SAS, only class B.  So a cellphone supporting CBRS would be exempt 
from a CPI inputting all this info.  Life is easier if you’re a cellco.  On the 
other hand, they complain that CBRS is useless because the EIRP limits are 
lower than their preferred C-band.  So they have proposals to increase EIRP 
limits to the same as C-band (this would be harmful to WISPs who would need new 
equipment to use the higher xmt levels), and AT&T is even proposing that the 
CBRS band be cleared so they can have spectrum adjacent to C-band, and that 
WISPs would be kicked to lower in the 3 GHz band (again, new equipment).  We’re 
like Rodney Dangerfield, we don’t get no respect.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

How large can you state the accuracy?  Like 100 meters?  1km?

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 11:48 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

For the lat/lon, yes.  The first few months, I had a Garmin GPS and a TruPuls 
laser rangefinder to determine the parameters onsite.  Pretty quickly, I found 
it was just fine to use Google Earth.  It is wasn’t obvious where the installer 
would mount the CPE radio, I’d have him describe the location to me as he’s 
doing it.  If he says it’s about 17 feet above ground, I take his word for it.  
I usually state the accuracy as 4 meters horizontal, 1 meter vertical.  You 
don’t want to say your height AGL could be 5 meters off, because I assume the 
SAS then adds 5 meters to your height which makes it more likely that you will 
be interfering with a PAL holder.

 

There’s still a bunch more information that needs to be input, and you need to 
pass the test and get the CPI cert to have the credentials to input the 
information.  Just like a PE license, you could pay an outsider to do it, but 
that makes no sense.  BTW, any CPI can update CBSD data, not just the CPI that 
did it originally.  So there isn’t an existential crisis if your CPI dies, 
quits, or gets fired.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:00 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

I would expect that many folks just dry lab’d the SAS info from Google Earth.

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:30 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

If you’re not currently using CBRS, note that someone on your staff will need 
to get certified as a Certified Professional Installer (CPI).  Not a huge 
hurdle, and it’s a misnomer because they don’t necessarily install stuff.  They 
make sure the lat/lon, height, azimuth, frequency, etc. information given to 
the SAS are correct.  You COULD make all your installers CPIs, but more likely 
one of your network engineers.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 36140 
and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s with any 
speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?

 

On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

 

> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
> want that liability.

 

Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower rent 
or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, or 
other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your nightmare.

 

One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
customers 

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[chuck]

Yes, lots of security trailers that have extendable tower masts, cameras, solar 
panels and batts parked all over the place now.  They have blue blinking lights 
on top.  They are becoming so ubiquitous that I have to believe they are 
effective.  

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Dennis Burgess - LTI Support via AF 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:22 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Dennis Burgess - LTI Support 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

Drop in some strobes and/or sirens, when detected, inform customer but the goal 
is to NOT get stuff stolen.   Well that’s the goal anyways.. 😊 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:20 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

 

Owned a RadioShack.  Holiday season meant break ins.  Had lotsa cameras.  
Cameras told you when, what and how it happened.  Never helped us prosecute 
anyone.  So, deterrent if visible seems to work.  But so will fake cameras and 
motion activated lights with signs calling attention to the cameras.  The 
lights are the most valuable upgrade in my opinion.  

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:03 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

 

People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have been 
break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases $50K or 
$100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken into. 
 Especially if they go south for the winter.

 

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?  To 
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?

 

If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some warning 
signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake cameras.

 

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some of 
the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to 
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume 
most burglaries take place).

 

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if they cut 
the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it best to use 
cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?

 

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put in the 
same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a whole 
system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is it key to 
have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a breaking 
and see people on the cameras?

 

I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no 
use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)

 

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just makes 
you feel good?




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[Dev]

Anyone know how much speed you can get through them on a 10MHz channel, and how 
many subs each will handle?

> On Dec 1, 2024, at 6:06 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, the PMP320 should only be using 3650-3700, so if nobody else is using 
> CBRS in the area, 3550-3650 would be unused (that's a big if, obviously). 
> 
> I would definitely consider those 100 subs to be a liability with negative 
> value. 
> 
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 6:16 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
>> I think pre-CBRS with an NN license, we could use 3650-3700.  That’s what we 
>> did with our 450 gear before CBRS, and our one Purewave WiMax basestation.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 450i and 450m APs can do 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 MHz channels although given 
>> CBRS orientation around 10 MHz grants it doesn’t make much sense to use the 
>> channels that don’t align on the standard 10 MHz raster.  The performance is 
>> the same as in 5 GHz, all things being the same.  There are no PALs in 
>> 3650-3700 so it is permanently GAA.  In 3550-3650, the SAS will kick you to 
>> a different channel if a PAL holder goes on the air.  Personally I think it 
>> is risky to assume you can get 3 or 4 contiguous CBRS channels but you can 
>> try.  There is also the issue of coordinating timing with any cellular LTE 
>> operators since they may use all available GAA spectrum and will trash your 
>> upstream.  If you have no other WISPs or cellular companies in your area 
>> using CBRS, life could be good.  But if all your subs are nearby with clear 
>> LOS, 6 GHz could be even better.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Dev
>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 
>> 36140 and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s 
>> with any speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof > > wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> > Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, 
>> > don’t want that liability.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower 
>> rent or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, 
>> or other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your 
>> nightmare.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
>> customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months 
>> of service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase 
>> rather than X% of revenue for Y months.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> > Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical 
>> abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing 
>> out grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a skeptic 
>> ever since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).  Maybe it is 
>> magic, who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Dev
>> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know 
>> what throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these 
>> wherever their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they 
>> can get on their 3.6 450 APs?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
>> want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days? 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much 
>> better than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem 
>> if the old gear is still up.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof > > wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the 
>> performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other 
>> choice and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and 
>> 5G Home Internet and other WISPs the customer base would be dwindling.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> That sounds like the WISP equivalent of a Superfund site.  The value of the 
>> equipment is negative by however much it will cost to decommission and 
>> dispose of the equipment.  I would ask, if you do a buyout, what exactly are 
>> you buying?  Equipment?  Customer list?  Tower sites?  Spectrum licenses?  
>> Fiber feeding the towers?  You might find that 

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Bill Prince]

It probably depends on where you're at.

We live at the end of a 3/4 mile driveway in the middle of nowhere. We 
have a security camera above the driveway about 1100-1200 feet from the 
house (as the driveway drives).


Because of where we're at, if someone saw the camera, they would 
probably shoot it, so we have it painted in camo, and it's hidden up 
high where people would be unlikely to see it. Bottom line is that 
anyone out here is lost, or up to no good. The entrance to the driveway 
has a gate with coded access, so people don't show up here by accident. 
If we called the cops, it typically takes at least an hour unless 
they're coming code 3. So for all intents and purposes, we are on our 
own; we treat the security camera as a very expensive doorbell.


If we were in town somewhere, I'd probably want it to be visible and 
maybe somewhat conspicuous.



bp


On 12/1/2024 11:03 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there 
have been break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some 
cases $50K or $100K worth. This also gets people thinking their houses 
will get broken into.  Especially if they go south for the winter.


So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security 
cameras?  To deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?


If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some 
warning signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some 
fake cameras.


If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least 
some of the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good 
enough to identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night 
(when I assume most burglaries take place).


What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if 
they cut the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is 
it best to use cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?


And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them 
put in the same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you 
can get a whole system with door and window detectors and a monitoring 
service.  Is it key to have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call 
police if they detect a breaking and see people on the cameras?


I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats 
are no use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)


Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what 
just makes you feel good?


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Internet effect on Gen XYZA

[Bill Prince]

We should all understand by now that truth and fairness are not 
valuable. All that matters is your attention. Your attention is gauged 
by your reaction to the algorithm.


So...

            Subvert the algorithm.


bp


On 12/1/2024 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Seems like the algorithms are pushing more and more clickbait articles 
in my face any time I try to use the web.


Looking at some of this content, if I were a teen or 20something, it 
would convince me that my life sucks and it’s everybody else’s fault.  
I wish I were wrong about this, but sadly I suspect I’m right.


I don’t really agree with the Australians that we should ban kids from 
social media, plus I think that’s a naïve approach and won’t work.  
And while I’d like to blame AI for making kids and young adults 
depressed, I suspect it’s actual people doing it, perhaps with the 
help of AI.  You’ll never get a job, own a house, get a girlfriend, 
get married,have kids, get out of debt, have friends, be as successful 
or happy as previous generations, and 
boomers/millennials/GenX/theright/theleft/nazis/antifa/corporations/bigtech/bigpharma 
are conspiring to screw you over.  Now click on this ad from our sponsor.


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[chuck]

I would expect that many folks just dry lab’d the SAS info from Google Earth.



From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

If you’re not currently using CBRS, note that someone on your staff will need 
to get certified as a Certified Professional Installer (CPI).  Not a huge 
hurdle, and it’s a misnomer because they don’t necessarily install stuff.  They 
make sure the lat/lon, height, azimuth, frequency, etc. information given to 
the SAS are correct.  You COULD make all your installers CPIs, but more likely 
one of your network engineers.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 36140 
and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s with any 
speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?





  On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

   

  > Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, 
don’t want that liability.

   

  Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower rent 
or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, or 
other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your nightmare.

   

  One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months of 
service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase rather 
than X% of revenue for Y months.

   

  > Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?

   

  I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical 
abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing out 
grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a skeptic ever 
since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).  Maybe it is magic, 
who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Dev
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

   

  PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know 
what throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these wherever 
their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they can get on 
their 3.6 450 APs?

   

  Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days? 

   

  We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much better 
than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem if the 
old gear is still up.






On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

 

PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the 
performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other choice 
and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and 5G Home 
Internet and other WISPs the customer base would be dwindling.

 

That sounds like the WISP equivalent of a Superfund site.  The value of the 
equipment is negative by however much it will cost to decommission and dispose 
of the equipment.  I would ask, if you do a buyout, what exactly are you 
buying?  Equipment?  Customer list?  Tower sites?  Spectrum licenses?  Fiber 
feeding the towers?  You might find that the value of the assets is zero or 
negative, and you’d be doing the seller a favor by taking it off his hands for 
$1.

 

Given there might be other shady things going on, don’t buy the business, 
do an asset purchase.  Which comes back to the question, are the assets worth 
anything?

 

Could you overbuild him and then come to an agreement where he tells all 
the customers the business is closing at X date and recommends they contact 
this new WISP (you)?  What he gets is a few more months revenue and doesn’t 
have angry customers at his door with torches and pitchforks.

 

And is there a reason why it needs to be done in 3 GHz and not 5 or 6 GHz?  
If there is a valid reason why only 3 GHz is suitable, I guess Cambium 450 
maybe makes sense if you are looking to temporarily collocate sectors using 5 
ms frame.   But otherwise, you could also look at Tarana or LTE.  Of course 
those would be even more expensive.

 

Since they never switched to CBRS, I won’t ask if they bought any PALs.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 9:08 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

Ugh is right.

 

Yes, the

Re: [AFMUG] Internet effect on Gen XYZA

[chuck]

We have arrived: 
https://archive.org/details/galaxymagazine-1954-04/page/n7/mode/2up?view=theater



From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 10:57 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Internet effect on Gen XYZA



We should all understand by now that truth and fairness are not valuable. All 
that matters is your attention. Your attention is gauged by your reaction to 
the algorithm.

So...


Subvert the algorithm.



bp
On 12/1/2024 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Seems like the algorithms are pushing more and more clickbait articles in my 
face any time I try to use the web.

   

  Looking at some of this content, if I were a teen or 20something, it would 
convince me that my life sucks and it’s everybody else’s fault.  I wish I were 
wrong about this, but sadly I suspect I’m right.

   

  I don’t really agree with the Australians that we should ban kids from social 
media, plus I think that’s a naïve approach and won’t work.  And while I’d like 
to blame AI for making kids and young adults depressed, I suspect it’s actual 
people doing it, perhaps with the help of AI.  You’ll never get a job, own a 
house, get a girlfriend, get married,have kids, get out of debt, have friends, 
be as successful or happy as previous generations, and 
boomers/millennials/GenX/theright/theleft/nazis/antifa/corporations/bigtech/bigpharma
 are conspiring to screw you over.  Now click on this ad from our sponsor.


   



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, the PMP320 should only be using 3650-3700, so if nobody else is using
CBRS in the area, 3550-3650 would be unused (that's a big if, obviously).

I would definitely consider those 100 subs to be a liability with negative
value.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 6:16 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I think pre-CBRS with an NN license, we could use 3650-3700.  That’s what
> we did with our 450 gear before CBRS, and our one Purewave WiMax
> basestation.
>
>
>
> 450i and 450m APs can do 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 MHz channels although
> given CBRS orientation around 10 MHz grants it doesn’t make much sense to
> use the channels that don’t align on the standard 10 MHz raster.  The
> performance is the same as in 5 GHz, all things being the same.  There are
> no PALs in 3650-3700 so it is permanently GAA.  In 3550-3650, the SAS will
> kick you to a different channel if a PAL holder goes on the air.
> Personally I think it is risky to assume you can get 3 or 4 contiguous CBRS
> channels but you can try.  There is also the issue of coordinating timing
> with any cellular LTE operators since they may use all available GAA
> spectrum and will trash your upstream.  If you have no other WISPs or
> cellular companies in your area using CBRS, life could be good.  But if all
> your subs are nearby with clear LOS, 6 GHz could be even better.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dev
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works
>
>
>
> According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally
> between 36140 and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run
> 450M’s with any speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses
> anyway?
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on,
> don’t want that liability.
>
>
>
> Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower
> rent or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against
> them, or other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your
> nightmare.
>
>
>
> One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their
> customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6
> months of service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash
> purchase rather than X% of revenue for Y months.
>
>
>
> > Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?
>
>
>
> I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical
> abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing
> out grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a
> skeptic ever since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).
> Maybe it is magic, who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dev
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works
>
>
>
> PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know
> what throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these
> wherever their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they
> can get on their 3.6 450 APs?
>
>
>
> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on,
> don’t want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days?
>
>
>
> We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much
> better than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan
> problem if the old gear is still up.
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>
>
> PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the
> performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other
> choice and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and
> 5G Home Internet and other WISPs the customer base would be dwindling.
>
>
>
> That sounds like the WISP equivalent of a Superfund site.  The value of
> the equipment is negative by however much it will cost to decommission and
> dispose of the equipment.  I would ask, if you do a buyout, what exactly
> are you buying?  Equipment?  Customer list?  Tower sites?  Spectrum
> licenses?  Fiber feeding the towers?  You might find that the value of the
> assets is zero or negative, and you’d be doing the seller a favor by taking
> it off his hands for $1.
>
>
>
> Given there might be other shady things going on, don’t buy the business,
> do an asset purchase.  Which comes back to the question, are the assets
> worth anything?
>
>
>
> Could you overbuild him and then come to an agreement where he tells all
> the customers the business is closing at X date and recommends they contact
> this new WISP (you)?  What he gets is a few more months revenue and doesn’t
> have angry customers at his door with torches and pitchf

[AFMUG] Internet effect on Gen XYZA

[Ken Hohhof]

Seems like the algorithms are pushing more and more clickbait articles in my
face any time I try to use the web.

 

Looking at some of this content, if I were a teen or 20something, it would
convince me that my life sucks and it’s everybody else’s fault.  I wish I
were wrong about this, but sadly I suspect I’m right.

 

I don’t really agree with the Australians that we should ban kids from
social media, plus I think that’s a naïve approach and won’t work.  And
while I’d like to blame AI for making kids and young adults depressed, I
suspect it’s actual people doing it, perhaps with the help of AI.  You’ll
never get a job, own a house, get a girlfriend, get married,have kids, get
out of debt, have friends, be as successful or happy as previous
generations, and
boomers/millennials/GenX/theright/theleft/nazis/antifa/corporations/bigtech/
bigpharma are conspiring to screw you over.  Now click on this ad from our
sponsor.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[chuck]

Owned a RadioShack.  Holiday season meant break ins.  Had lotsa cameras.  
Cameras told you when, what and how it happened.  Never helped us prosecute 
anyone.  So, deterrent if visible seems to work.  But so will fake cameras and 
motion activated lights with signs calling attention to the cameras.  The 
lights are the most valuable upgrade in my opinion.  



From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:03 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have been 
break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases $50K or 
$100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken into. 
 Especially if they go south for the winter.

 

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?  To 
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?

 

If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some warning 
signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake cameras.

 

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some of 
the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to 
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume 
most burglaries take place).

 

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if they cut 
the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it best to use 
cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?

 

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put in the 
same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a whole 
system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is it key to 
have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a breaking 
and see people on the cameras?

 

I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no 
use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)

 

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just makes 
you feel good?




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Dennis Burgess - LTI Support via AF]

Drop in some strobes and/or sirens, when detected, inform customer but the goal 
is to NOT get stuff stolen.   Well that’s the goal anyways.. 😊

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:20 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

Owned a RadioShack.  Holiday season meant break ins.  Had lotsa cameras.  
Cameras told you when, what and how it happened.  Never helped us prosecute 
anyone.  So, deterrent if visible seems to work.  But so will fake cameras and 
motion activated lights with signs calling attention to the cameras.  The 
lights are the most valuable upgrade in my opinion.



From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:03 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have been 
break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases $50K or 
$100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken into. 
 Especially if they go south for the winter.

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?  To 
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?

If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some warning 
signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake cameras.

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some of 
the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to 
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume 
most burglaries take place).

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if they cut 
the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it best to use 
cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put in the 
same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a whole 
system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is it key to 
have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a breaking 
and see people on the cameras?

I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no 
use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just makes 
you feel good?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Zach Underwood]

 "some on-camera AI, 4k resolution, local storage caching "

Interesting you got a make and model. Our AV guy is hopped on eagle eye
networks system but I would like an alternative.

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 2:12 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I can't speak to effectiveness, but we're about to test some on-camera AI,
> 4k resolution, local storage caching in event of network outage, etc.
> cameras. These would mostly be deployed on our fiber network, though.
> They're from a fairly prominent player as well.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:03:33 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] security camera strategy
>
> People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have
> been break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases
> $50K or $100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get
> broken into.  Especially if they go south for the winter.
>
>
>
> So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?
> To deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?
>
>
>
> If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some
> warning signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake
> cameras.
>
>
>
> If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least
> some of the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good
> enough to identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night
> (when I assume most burglaries take place).
>
>
>
> What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if
> they cut the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it
> best to use cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?
>
>
>
> And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put
> in the same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a
> whole system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is
> it key to have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they
> detect a breaking and see people on the cameras?
>
>
>
> I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are
> no use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)
>
>
>
> Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just
> makes you feel good?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[Adam Moffett]

It was advertised as up to 45mbps in a 10mhz channel.  It depends on your TDD 
ratio though.  In real life we were getting 30-35Mbps, but we were fussy about 
getting a minimum target signal level.  I don’t think we could get more than 
12mbps to a single subscriber, and I think that was a limitation of the CPE.  
One other thing is the CPE had two DL chains, but only one UL chain.

I don’t recall the max number of CPE, but it’s irrelevant because you’ll be 
maxing out bandwidth long before you hit that number.


Get Outlook for iOS

From: AF  on behalf of Dev 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 4:28:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

Anyone know how much speed you can get through them on a 10MHz channel, and how 
many subs each will handle?

On Dec 1, 2024, at 6:06 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, the PMP320 should only be using 3650-3700, so if nobody else is using 
CBRS in the area, 3550-3650 would be unused (that's a big if, obviously).

I would definitely consider those 100 subs to be a liability with negative 
value.

On Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 6:16 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote:

I think pre-CBRS with an NN license, we could use 3650-3700.  That’s what we 
did with our 450 gear before CBRS, and our one Purewave WiMax basestation.



450i and 450m APs can do 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 MHz channels although given 
CBRS orientation around 10 MHz grants it doesn’t make much sense to use the 
channels that don’t align on the standard 10 MHz raster.  The performance is 
the same as in 5 GHz, all things being the same.  There are no PALs in 
3650-3700 so it is permanently GAA.  In 3550-3650, the SAS will kick you to a 
different channel if a PAL holder goes on the air.  Personally I think it is 
risky to assume you can get 3 or 4 contiguous CBRS channels but you can try.  
There is also the issue of coordinating timing with any cellular LTE operators 
since they may use all available GAA spectrum and will trash your upstream.  If 
you have no other WISPs or cellular companies in your area using CBRS, life 
could be good.  But if all your subs are nearby with clear LOS, 6 GHz could be 
even better.



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works



According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 36140 
and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s with any 
speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?



On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote:



> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
> want that liability.



Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower rent 
or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, or 
other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your nightmare.



One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months of 
service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase rather 
than X% of revenue for Y months.



> Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?



I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical 
abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing out 
grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a skeptic ever 
since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).  Maybe it is magic, 
who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works



PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know what 
throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these wherever 
their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they can get on 
their 3.6 450 APs?



Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days?



We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much better 
than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem if the 
old gear is still up.




On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote:



PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the 
performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other choice 
and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and 5G Home 
Internet and other WISPs the customer

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Chris Fabien]

We had a couple issues at our office when we first moved in. Caught someone
trying to get into back door, and had cats stolen off two trucks once. Had
some Blink cameras at that time, only useful to confirm that yea, someone
did steal the cats they didn't just disappear, and get a vague vehicle
description.
After that we fenced in the yard with 6ft chainlink with barbed wire, and
installed very good lighting (think car dealer brightness). We also
upgraded cameras to megapixel IP cameras with local DVR.
Haven't had any other issues since the lighting/fencing.
Cameras have been useful for checking up on employees.
Cliff Notes, make it look hard to steal from and most thieves will just
choose an easier target.

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 4:41 PM Zach Underwood  wrote:

> "some on-camera AI, 4k resolution, local storage caching "
>
> Interesting you got a make and model. Our AV guy is hopped on eagle eye
> networks system but I would like an alternative.
>
> On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 2:12 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I can't speak to effectiveness, but we're about to test some on-camera
>> AI, 4k resolution, local storage caching in event of network outage, etc.
>> cameras. These would mostly be deployed on our fiber network, though.
>> They're from a fairly prominent player as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:03:33 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] security camera strategy
>>
>> People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have
>> been break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases
>> $50K or $100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get
>> broken into.  Especially if they go south for the winter.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?
>> To deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?
>>
>>
>>
>> If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some
>> warning signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake
>> cameras.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least
>> some of the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good
>> enough to identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night
>> (when I assume most burglaries take place).
>>
>>
>>
>> What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if
>> they cut the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it
>> best to use cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?
>>
>>
>>
>> And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put
>> in the same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a
>> whole system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is
>> it key to have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they
>> detect a breaking and see people on the cameras?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are
>> no use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just
>> makes you feel good?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Ken Hohhof]

They stole felines?  Or excavators?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 6:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

 

We had a couple issues at our office when we first moved in. Caught someone 
trying to get into back door, and had cats stolen off two trucks once. Had some 
Blink cameras at that time, only useful to confirm that yea, someone did steal 
the cats they didn't just disappear, and get a vague vehicle description. 

After that we fenced in the yard with 6ft chainlink with barbed wire, and 
installed very good lighting (think car dealer brightness). We also upgraded 
cameras to megapixel IP cameras with local DVR.

Haven't had any other issues since the lighting/fencing. 

Cameras have been useful for checking up on employees. 

Cliff Notes, make it look hard to steal from and most thieves will just choose 
an easier target. 

 

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 4:41 PM Zach Underwood mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

"some on-camera AI, 4k resolution, local storage caching "

 

Interesting you got a make and model. Our AV guy is hopped on eagle eye 
networks system but I would like an alternative.

 

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 2:12 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I can't speak to effectiveness, but we're about to test some on-camera AI, 4k 
resolution, local storage caching in event of network outage, etc. cameras. 
These would mostly be deployed on our fiber network, though. They're from a 
fairly prominent player as well.

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:03:33 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have been 
break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases $50K or 
$100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken into. 
 Especially if they go south for the winter.

 

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?  To 
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?

 

If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some warning 
signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake cameras.

 

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some of 
the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to 
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume 
most burglaries take place).

 

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if they cut 
the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it best to use 
cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?

 

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I’ve seen them put in the 
same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a whole 
system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is it key to 
have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a breaking 
and see people on the cameras?

 

I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no 
use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)

 

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just makes 
you feel good?


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website  

advance-networking.com  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[Ken Hohhof]

For the lat/lon, yes.  The first few months, I had a Garmin GPS and a TruPuls 
laser rangefinder to determine the parameters onsite.  Pretty quickly, I found 
it was just fine to use Google Earth.  It is wasn’t obvious where the installer 
would mount the CPE radio, I’d have him describe the location to me as he’s 
doing it.  If he says it’s about 17 feet above ground, I take his word for it.  
I usually state the accuracy as 4 meters horizontal, 1 meter vertical.  You 
don’t want to say your height AGL could be 5 meters off, because I assume the 
SAS then adds 5 meters to your height which makes it more likely that you will 
be interfering with a PAL holder.

 

There’s still a bunch more information that needs to be input, and you need to 
pass the test and get the CPI cert to have the credentials to input the 
information.  Just like a PE license, you could pay an outsider to do it, but 
that makes no sense.  BTW, any CPI can update CBSD data, not just the CPI that 
did it originally.  So there isn’t an existential crisis if your CPI dies, 
quits, or gets fired.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:00 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

I would expect that many folks just dry lab’d the SAS info from Google Earth.

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:30 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

If you’re not currently using CBRS, note that someone on your staff will need 
to get certified as a Certified Professional Installer (CPI).  Not a huge 
hurdle, and it’s a misnomer because they don’t necessarily install stuff.  They 
make sure the lat/lon, height, azimuth, frequency, etc. information given to 
the SAS are correct.  You COULD make all your installers CPIs, but more likely 
one of your network engineers.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 36140 
and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s with any 
speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?

 

On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

 

> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
> want that liability.

 

Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower rent 
or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, or 
other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your nightmare.

 

One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months of 
service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase rather 
than X% of revenue for Y months.

 

> Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?

 

I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical 
abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing out 
grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a skeptic ever 
since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).  Maybe it is magic, 
who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know what 
throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these wherever 
their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they can get on 
their 3.6 450 APs?

 

Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days? 

 

We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much better 
than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem if the 
old gear is still up.





On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

 

PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the 
performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other choice 
and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and 5G Home 
Internet and other WISPs the customer base would be dwindling.

 

That sounds like the WISP equivalent of a Superfund site.  The value of the 
equipment is negative by however much it will cost to decommission and dispose 
of the equipment.  I would ask, if you do a buyout, what exactly are you 
buying?  Equipment?  Customer l

Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

[chuck]

How large can you state the accuracy?  Like 100 meters?  1km?

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 11:48 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

For the lat/lon, yes.  The first few months, I had a Garmin GPS and a TruPuls 
laser rangefinder to determine the parameters onsite.  Pretty quickly, I found 
it was just fine to use Google Earth.  It is wasn’t obvious where the installer 
would mount the CPE radio, I’d have him describe the location to me as he’s 
doing it.  If he says it’s about 17 feet above ground, I take his word for it.  
I usually state the accuracy as 4 meters horizontal, 1 meter vertical.  You 
don’t want to say your height AGL could be 5 meters off, because I assume the 
SAS then adds 5 meters to your height which makes it more likely that you will 
be interfering with a PAL holder.

 

There’s still a bunch more information that needs to be input, and you need to 
pass the test and get the CPI cert to have the credentials to input the 
information.  Just like a PE license, you could pay an outsider to do it, but 
that makes no sense.  BTW, any CPI can update CBSD data, not just the CPI that 
did it originally.  So there isn’t an existential crisis if your CPI dies, 
quits, or gets fired.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:00 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

I would expect that many folks just dry lab’d the SAS info from Google Earth.

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:30 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

If you’re not currently using CBRS, note that someone on your staff will need 
to get certified as a Certified Professional Installer (CPI).  Not a huge 
hurdle, and it’s a misnomer because they don’t necessarily install stuff.  They 
make sure the lat/lon, height, azimuth, frequency, etc. information given to 
the SAS are correct.  You COULD make all your installers CPIs, but more likely 
one of your network engineers.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dev
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

 

According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between 36140 
and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s with any 
speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway?

 

  On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

   

  > Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, 
don’t want that liability.

   

  Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower rent 
or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, or 
other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your nightmare.

   

  One other thing to watch out for is prepays.  If they got most of their 
customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months of 
service for no revenue.  This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase rather 
than X% of revenue for Y months.

   

  > Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6?

   

  I have no personal knowledge.  If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical 
abilities.  One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing out 
grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber.  I’m a skeptic ever 
since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though).  Maybe it is magic, 
who knows, not me.  Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Dev
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works

   

  PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know 
what throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these wherever 
their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they can get on 
their 3.6 450 APs?

   

  Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t 
want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days? 

   

  We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much better 
than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem if the 
old gear is still up.





On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

 

PMP320 was WiMax, right?  How many years has that been EOL?  I suspect the 
performance isn’t that great either.  Do those customers have no other choice 
and that’s why they haven’t switched?  Seems like with Starlink and 5G Home 
Internet and ot

[AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Ken Hohhof]

People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have
been break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools.  In some cases $50K
or $100K worth.  This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken
into.  Especially if they go south for the winter.

 

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras?  To
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators?

 

If it's a deterrent, you'd want the cameras to be visible, maybe some
warning signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake
cameras.

 

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some
of the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume
most burglaries take place).

 

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks?  What if they
cut the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer?  Is it best to
use cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras?

 

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT?  I've seen them put in
the same consumer grade cameras you'd buy at Walmart, but you can get a
whole system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service.  Is it
key to have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a
breaking and see people on the cameras?

 

I guess you could get a dog.  I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no
use.  (against mice yes, burglars no)

 

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just
makes you feel good?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] security camera strategy

[Mike Hammett]

I can't speak to effectiveness, but we're about to test some on-camera AI, 4k 
resolution, local storage caching in event of network outage, etc. cameras. 
These would mostly be deployed on our fiber network, though. They're from a 
fairly prominent player as well. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 1:03:33 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] security camera strategy 



People in our rural areas are saying they need cameras because there have been 
break-ins, typically shop buildings to steal tools. In some cases $50K or $100K 
worth. This also gets people thinking their houses will get broken into. 
Especially if they go south for the winter. 

So I often wonder, what is the intended purpose of the security cameras? To 
deter theft, or to catch the perpetrators? 

If it’s a deterrent, you’d want the cameras to be visible, maybe some warning 
signs, maybe a motion activated floodlight, maybe even some fake cameras. 

If the idea is to catch the criminals, maybe you want to hide at least some of 
the cameras, but you want to make sure the resolution is good enough to 
identify faces and license plates, even by IR light at night (when I assume 
most burglaries take place). 

What if burglars obscure their license plates and wear masks? What if they cut 
the cables to the security cameras or use a WiFi jammer? Is it best to use 
cloud storage, a local NVR, or SDR cards in the cameras? 

And is there any worth in hiring a company like ADT? I’ve seen them put in the 
same consumer grade cameras you’d buy at Walmart, but you can get a whole 
system with door and window detectors and a monitoring service. Is it key to 
have a 24x7 monitoring service that will call police if they detect a breaking 
and see people on the cameras? 

I guess you could get a dog. I do have anecdotal evidence that cats are no use. 
(against mice yes, burglars no) 

Does anyone here have real world experience in what works and what just makes 
you feel good? 
-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com