Anyone know how much speed you can get through them on a 10MHz channel, and how many subs each will handle?
> On Dec 1, 2024, at 6:06 AM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yeah, the PMP320 should only be using 3650-3700, so if nobody else is using > CBRS in the area, 3550-3650 would be unused (that's a big if, obviously). > > I would definitely consider those 100 subs to be a liability with negative > value. > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 6:16 PM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com > <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote: >> I think pre-CBRS with an NN license, we could use 3650-3700. That’s what we >> did with our 450 gear before CBRS, and our one Purewave WiMax basestation. >> >> >> >> 450i and 450m APs can do 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 or 40 MHz channels although given >> CBRS orientation around 10 MHz grants it doesn’t make much sense to use the >> channels that don’t align on the standard 10 MHz raster. The performance is >> the same as in 5 GHz, all things being the same. There are no PALs in >> 3650-3700 so it is permanently GAA. In 3550-3650, the SAS will kick you to >> a different channel if a PAL holder goes on the air. Personally I think it >> is risky to assume you can get 3 or 4 contiguous CBRS channels but you can >> try. There is also the issue of coordinating timing with any cellular LTE >> operators since they may use all available GAA spectrum and will trash your >> upstream. If you have no other WISPs or cellular companies in your area >> using CBRS, life could be good. But if all your subs are nearby with clear >> LOS, 6 GHz could be even better. >> >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Dev >> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 5:50 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> >> >> According to one data sheet for the 320s, they operate normally between >> 36140 and 36740 (if I’m reading that right), is there space to run 450M’s >> with any speed outside of those frequencies with CBRS GA licenses anyway? >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 30, 2024, at 2:10 PM, Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com >> <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, >> > don’t want that liability. >> >> >> >> Reason why not to buy the company is in case they didn’t pay their tower >> rent or taxes for years, or they have general liability claims against them, >> or other things that could come out of the woodwork and become your >> nightmare. >> >> >> >> One other thing to watch out for is prepays. If they got most of their >> customers to prepay annually, then on average you will be providing 6 months >> of service for no revenue. This is a bigger risk if you do a cash purchase >> rather than X% of revenue for Y months. >> >> >> >> > Is Tarana THAT much better than 450 AP’s in 3.6? >> >> >> >> I have no personal knowledge. If you ask Tarana, it has almost magical >> abilities. One of those seems to be convincing government agencies handing >> out grants that you can deliver 100/20 service without fiber. I’m a skeptic >> ever since I got burned on the WiMax hype (not PMP320 though). Maybe it is >> magic, who knows, not me. Ask a Tigger, not an Eeyore. >> >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Dev >> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 2:59 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> >> >> PMP 320 with 10MHz channels, is that still even possibly legal? Don’t know >> what throughput you can get from that. I also think that running these >> wherever their 10MHz channel would have to cut into the channel widths they >> can get on their 3.6 450 APs? >> >> >> >> Asset sale indeed, very creative accounting I think has been going on, don’t >> want that liability. How much are 450m subs in 3.6 these days? >> >> >> >> We’ve already used most of the 5GHz, looking at 6. Is Tarana THAT much >> better than 450 AP’s in 3.6? Also, I still might have a channel plan problem >> if the old gear is still up. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 30, 2024, at 9:14 AM, Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com >> <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> PMP320 was WiMax, right? How many years has that been EOL? I suspect the >> performance isn’t that great either. Do those customers have no other >> choice and that’s why they haven’t switched? Seems like with Starlink and >> 5G Home Internet and other WISPs the customer base would be dwindling. >> >> >> >> That sounds like the WISP equivalent of a Superfund site. The value of the >> equipment is negative by however much it will cost to decommission and >> dispose of the equipment. I would ask, if you do a buyout, what exactly are >> you buying? Equipment? Customer list? Tower sites? Spectrum licenses? >> Fiber feeding the towers? You might find that the value of the assets is >> zero or negative, and you’d be doing the seller a favor by taking it off his >> hands for $1. >> >> >> >> Given there might be other shady things going on, don’t buy the business, do >> an asset purchase. Which comes back to the question, are the assets worth >> anything? >> >> >> >> Could you overbuild him and then come to an agreement where he tells all the >> customers the business is closing at X date and recommends they contact this >> new WISP (you)? What he gets is a few more months revenue and doesn’t have >> angry customers at his door with torches and pitchforks. >> >> >> >> And is there a reason why it needs to be done in 3 GHz and not 5 or 6 GHz? >> If there is a valid reason why only 3 GHz is suitable, I guess Cambium 450 >> maybe makes sense if you are looking to temporarily collocate sectors using >> 5 ms frame. But otherwise, you could also look at Tarana or LTE. Of >> course those would be even more expensive. >> >> >> >> Since they never switched to CBRS, I won’t ask if they bought any PALs. >> >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick - Lists >> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2024 9:08 AM >> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >> Cc: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> >> >> Ugh is right. >> >> >> >> Yes, they are not operating legally in CBRS. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> Jeff Broadwick >> >> CTIconnect >> >> 312-205-2519 Office >> >> 574-220-7826 Cell >> >> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com <mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 29, 2024, at 9:46 PM, Dev <d...@logicalwebhost.com >> <mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com>> wrote: >> >> So they have around 100 old 3.6 subs sitting out there, even if you did a >> swap to 450 subs in the 3.6 that’s still around $30K in swaps plus labor, >> ugh, assuming you have enough 450 APs to handle all the subs. >> >> >> >> Did someone say liability? Oh, also, if anyone complains they’d have to come >> off the air right away, no? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 23, 2024, at 9:34 AM, <ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>> >> <ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Wow, access servers. Now that takes me back. Maybe 1991. I decided to >> use a MC68360 mcu to receive a T1 and some kind of Rockwell DSP to receive >> the data stream and be a modem. It would have been a 24 circuit dial up >> modem fed with a T1, the 360 was the first MCI I knew of with a native >> hardware ethernet port. I shelved it in favor of building some fax spy >> hardware (using the same chips but converting to E1) for some French semi >> intelligence related outfit to be used in Northern Africa and the middle >> ease. I loved the project. But I should have finished the modem. Others >> eventually did the same thing and were very successful. >> >> >> >> From: Ken Hohhof >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 10:23 AM >> >> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> >> >> Regarding dialup, we had 3 or 4 Ascend MAX4000 servers in Chicago and one in >> our WISP service area. We kept that one for awhile and gave free accounts >> to WISP customers as a backup in case of an outage, but abandoned that plan >> because nobody used it. 56 kbps was considered so slow as to be useless, >> people would drive into town and use WiFi at a coffee shop rather than use >> dialup. >> >> >> >> It’s getting that way now if one of our licensed backhauls goes down or has >> rain fade, it doesn’t make sense to fall back to a 5 GHz backup link with >> less capacity. If people can’t stream, in their view they have no Internet. >> Almost better not to use the backup link. Plus of course everybody starts >> running speedtests and making things worse. >> >> >> >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of castarritt >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 9:32 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> >> >> Yeah, 50 subs on a 900 and 100+ on a 2.4 FSK was perfectly fine, then >> Netflix decided to change their business model from mailing DVDs to >> streaming. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 8:02 PM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com >> <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com>> wrote: >> >> I hope they were doing wholesale dialup, not running their own access >> servers. We dumped dialup in 2009. It was a race to the bottom, the going >> price I think was $6.95/mo and if you were at $6.96 you got no customers. >> And you had to spend half your revenue on Google ads to get the customers. >> >> I think we still have 2 900 MHz customers on one Cambium AP. I can't >> believe WISPs used to have like 50 subs per 900 MHz AP, at like $50/mo ARPU. >> And those weren't even the 450i APs, they were FSK or Ubiquiti. Well, >> smartgrid took care of that. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On >> Behalf Of Dev >> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2024 6:05 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> The good news is they recently retired the two last dial-up customers! I >> didn’t know that still existed. >> >> They finally migrated the last customer off their 900MHz, I think. >> >> The rest of the diligence should be a fun-filled mystery I’m guessing. >> >> > On Nov 22, 2024, at 3:59 PM, t...@3dsc.co <mailto:t...@3dsc.co> wrote: >> > >> > Yeah almost all the 450 except some of the very first versions are CBRs >> > capable. If they still have pmp320s install there is a small chance that >> > it is running legaly, but not likely I had a customer that had an extended >> > grandfatherd license that was allowed to continue for a period of time >> > while they were transitioning. However its not likely. >> > >> > In this situation I would typicaly value these customers as negative for >> > asuming the liability or at least they would be removed from the valuation >> > I would recomend requireing them to be disabled before closing the deal. >> > >> > >> > On 11/22/24 5:48 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com >> > <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I'm fairly certain that all 450 hardware is CBRS capable, so that's just >> >> going to be a matter of upgrading firmware and getting everything >> >> properly configured and registered. >> >> I don't think any wimax gear is CBRS capable. >> >> At least some (probably most) LTE stuff can be upgraded to CBRS. >> >> If it's a couple of old wimax APs with a small number of customers, it's >> >> probably not that big of a deal, if it's hundreds of customers... yikes. >> >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024, 3:57 PM Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com >> >> <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com >> >> <mailto:khoh...@kwom.com%C2%A0%3cmailto:khoh...@kwom.com>>> wrote: >> >> If it is Cambium 450, we switched all of ours from Part 90 / NN to >> >> CBRS and I don't remember having to change any hardware. Other 3.65 >> >> equipment like a Purewave WIMAX system and some Ubiquiti stuff and >> >> another brand I don't recall, those were forklift upgrades. >> >> That was like 5 years ago though. I know because my CPI cert is >> >> about to expire. >> >> ---- Original Message ---- >> >> From: "Dev" __ >> >> Sent: 11/22/2024 3:35:58 PM >> >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" __ >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Valuing obsolete equipment that still works >> >> Also, we’d have to figure out how long it would take to swap them, >> >> trying to get a count of how much of a job this might be, i.e. how >> >> many subs. >> >> > On Nov 22, 2024, at 1:31?PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists >> >> > <jeffl...@att.net <mailto:jeffl...@att.net >> >> > <mailto:jeffl...@att.net%C2%A0%3cmailto:jeffl...@att.net>>> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > If it’s 3.65 that isn’t SAS capable, you are buying a large legal >> >> > liability. >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Jeff >> >> > >> >> > Jeff Broadwick >> >> > CTIconnect >> >> > 312-205-2519 Office >> >> > 574-220-7826 Cell >> >> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com <mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com> >> >> > <mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com> >> >> > >> >> >> On Nov 22, 2024, at 4:26?PM, Dev <d...@logicalwebhost.com >> <mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com%0b>>> >> >> <mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> ?I think some may be in the old 3.6GHz, which is more of an issue >> >> >> because it gets in the way of the new 450 3.6GHz radio channel >> >> >> plan, so hoping not too many subs out there. >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 22, 2024, at 12:11?PM, Steve Jones >> >> >>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >> >> >>> <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com%C2%A0%3cmailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> 0 value on equipment >> >> >>> acquisition value on customer >> >> >>> cost of doing business on swap >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 12:32?PM Dev <d...@logicalwebhost.com >> <mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com%0b>>> >>> >> <mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Looking at purchasing a WISP that has old wireless equipment >> >> >>> that’s no longer supported but happy customers connected to >> >> >>> it. How do you set a value on a customer you know you’re >> >> >>> going to have to swap client radios on and point to a >> >> >>> different AP, hopefully on the same tower? >> >> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >> >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> >>> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >> >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com <http:// >> <http://%0b/>>> >>> af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> >> >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com <http:// >> <http://%0b/>>> >> af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> >> >> > -- > AF mailing list >> >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com <http:// >> <http://%0b/>>> > af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> >> >> -- AF mailing list >> >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com <http:// >> <http://%0b/>>> af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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