[AFMUG] how to buy a wisp/fisp?

[Dev]

Anyone know of any repositories of example docs to purchase another wisp/fisp? 
Hate to make it up when there’s got to be boilerplate somewhere.


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Re: [AFMUG] Xfinity NOW

[Ken Hohhof]

With FCC/NTIA constantly harping on availability and speed, I’m struck by how 
many people have almost too many broadband options.  And I’m convinced price is 
a much bigger issue with consumers than speed.  But price regulation is the 
third rail for govt, so they talk about availability and speed.  And broadband 
labels.

 

I keep wondering if their real goal is to create enough competition to drive 
down prices, without explicitly regulating prices.  But what BEAD may actually 
do is create local fiber monopolies.  I’m not sure where all this is going, but 
there may be unintended consequences.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2024 4:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Xfinity NOW

 

On the Facebook groups, they're regularly recommending people call Comcast and 
threaten to leave to get a lower price.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2024 3:23:06 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Xfinity NOW


Does anyone understand how this works, from the customer perspective?  Does it 
assume you have a live but unused Xfinity coax connection in your house or 
apartment somewhere?

 

What I’ve gleaned from poking around the Internet is:

 

- Intended to counter low price 5G Home Internet competition

- 100 Mbps for $30, 200 Mbps for $45

- month-to-month prepaid service, no term contract

- DIY install and activation

- they send you a refurbished gateway

- if you cancel, they don’t want the gateway back

- you have to cancel regular Xfinity before you can get Xfinity NOW

 

The part they don’t seem to explain at all is what you plug the gateway into, 
and what if you don’t have an active Xfinity drop and inside wiring?  If I’m 
confused, I’d assume a lot of prospective customers are also.

 

If their logic is to use this mainly for their customer retention department 
and explain it to customers who are switching to T-Mobile or Verizon Home 
Internet, I think that’s a bad plan.  My experience is these days, people don’t 
call until they’ve already made the switch, you don’t really get a chance at 
“customer retention”.  It’s like finding out your spouse is unhappy when they 
serve you with divorce papers.  Or in my view, Internet has become a commodity 
and people make spur of the moment decision.  It’s not like buying a car where 
you research alternatives for months, go back to dealers to see if you can get 
a better offer, etc.  It’s like buying a candy bar at the mini mart, or a party 
dress at Ross.


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Re: [AFMUG] Cellular console server

[dbernardi]

Not that device in particular but the number of locations and RS-232 
ports per device may drive you in a certain direction.


I've been looking for a new solution as well.  With 100's of locations I 
find you need some sort of dashboard to track and manage devices, 
whether home-grown or from a provider.


We originally used Opengear 3G console servers but had to replace them 
as Verizon phased out 3G service so we put together our own RPi with a 
Verizon 4G USB cellular modem and a Startech USB/RS-232 adapter with 
appropriate number of ports.  That <$200 solution worked pretty well but 
if you don't pay attention to tunnel management (make sure it switches 
back to on-net link) it's easy to rack up a 5 figure Verizon bill even 
with a M2M type service.


So if you have a lot of devices to manage having visibility into them 
and/or cellular is key.  Tunnels become less important if you are 
willing to pay for static IPv4 or stable IPv6 addresses from the carrier 
but you still have to monitor them.


I looked at some ~$1500+ devices but at scale it becomes a pretty 
significant capital project and I consider tunnel/cellular management 
more important anyhow.


I tested the Digi Connect IT-4 with Hologram and it worked well but they 
didn't have Verizon as a carrier at the time (they do now for additional 
fee).  We provide cellular backhaul to many T-Mobile and AT&T sites so 
in the event our PoP/cabinet becomes isolated the concern is that same 
towers we provide backhaul to would be how we would gain out-of-band 
access to our equipment said outage.  Point being in our case having 
primary access to Verizon is important.


I'm currently looking to test Symetry (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T)+ Peplink 
router.  Peplink has a what looks like a very nice tunnel service 
dashboard (InTouch @ ~$40/year/device) but their hardware is lacking 
console ports so you still need some type console/RS-232 server if you 
need more than 1 port.  I'm considering leaving the RPi and Startech in 
place as a terminal server (works well) but using the Peplink+Intouch 
for cellular access/tunnel management (where we struggled).


There's also consideration of what you are planning to do with RS-232 
access.  Are you just doing occasional "show interface" commands when 
you lose in-band access, uploading firmware/bootloaders, or collecting 
telemetry.


Anyhow, based on what I looked at so far, I think most of the integrated 
rack mount console servers are pretty similar in features, cost and 
reliability but your cellular related requirements may matter (eSIM or 
multiple carrier support for example).  Some also seemed to differ in 
tunnel options as well if that's a consideration.


So if the cellular console server meets your needs and cost (scale) is 
not as important, I think you'll find they all pretty much the same.




On 11/1/2024 3:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Has anyone used this product?  Does it suck?
https://www.wti.com/products/dsm-8dcnm-e-gige-console-server-8-port- 
rj45-dual-ethernet 


I got spam from this company recently, and purely by chance I was 
researching a cellular OOB management option so I got the manual and dug 
into it a bit.  It has exactly the features I'm looking for.   I'm 
wondering if by chance anyone here has already bought from this company 
and maybe you can save me the trouble of finding out the hard way that 
they're terrible.






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Re: [AFMUG] Cellular console server

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Sorry to hijack the thread.

I've been considering developing a few different products to broaden my
product line so it isn't so WISP focused.   One of the things I've looked
at is a terminal server device since the existing ones seem so rediculous
for the price.

BUT..  to meet the price target I'd want to hit,  cellular connectivity
would be out of the question, due to the excessive cost of the testing that
the cellular networks require to permit connection to their network.  This
is probably why the existing products which have cellular connectivity cost
so much.

I was sort of under the impression that it was pretty typical for out of
band cellular access to use one of the off the shelf wireless
routers/hotspots to provide management-only ip connectivity.  That way,
you can connect to the management interface on every device.  Is this
not the case?

On Sun, Nov 3, 2024, 6:55 AM dbernardi  wrote:

>
> Not that device in particular but the number of locations and RS-232
> ports per device may drive you in a certain direction.
>
> I've been looking for a new solution as well.  With 100's of locations I
> find you need some sort of dashboard to track and manage devices,
> whether home-grown or from a provider.
>
> We originally used Opengear 3G console servers but had to replace them
> as Verizon phased out 3G service so we put together our own RPi with a
> Verizon 4G USB cellular modem and a Startech USB/RS-232 adapter with
> appropriate number of ports.  That <$200 solution worked pretty well but
> if you don't pay attention to tunnel management (make sure it switches
> back to on-net link) it's easy to rack up a 5 figure Verizon bill even
> with a M2M type service.
>
> So if you have a lot of devices to manage having visibility into them
> and/or cellular is key.  Tunnels become less important if you are
> willing to pay for static IPv4 or stable IPv6 addresses from the carrier
> but you still have to monitor them.
>
> I looked at some ~$1500+ devices but at scale it becomes a pretty
> significant capital project and I consider tunnel/cellular management
> more important anyhow.
>
> I tested the Digi Connect IT-4 with Hologram and it worked well but they
> didn't have Verizon as a carrier at the time (they do now for additional
> fee).  We provide cellular backhaul to many T-Mobile and AT&T sites so
> in the event our PoP/cabinet becomes isolated the concern is that same
> towers we provide backhaul to would be how we would gain out-of-band
> access to our equipment said outage.  Point being in our case having
> primary access to Verizon is important.
>
> I'm currently looking to test Symetry (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T)+ Peplink
> router.  Peplink has a what looks like a very nice tunnel service
> dashboard (InTouch @ ~$40/year/device) but their hardware is lacking
> console ports so you still need some type console/RS-232 server if you
> need more than 1 port.  I'm considering leaving the RPi and Startech in
> place as a terminal server (works well) but using the Peplink+Intouch
> for cellular access/tunnel management (where we struggled).
>
> There's also consideration of what you are planning to do with RS-232
> access.  Are you just doing occasional "show interface" commands when
> you lose in-band access, uploading firmware/bootloaders, or collecting
> telemetry.
>
> Anyhow, based on what I looked at so far, I think most of the integrated
> rack mount console servers are pretty similar in features, cost and
> reliability but your cellular related requirements may matter (eSIM or
> multiple carrier support for example).  Some also seemed to differ in
> tunnel options as well if that's a consideration.
>
> So if the cellular console server meets your needs and cost (scale) is
> not as important, I think you'll find they all pretty much the same.
>
>
>
> On 11/1/2024 3:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone used this product?  Does it suck?
> > https://www.wti.com/products/dsm-8dcnm-e-gige-console-server-8-port-
> > rj45-dual-ethernet  > console-server-8-port-rj45-dual-ethernet>
> >
> > I got spam from this company recently, and purely by chance I was
> > researching a cellular OOB management option so I got the manual and dug
> > into it a bit.  It has exactly the features I'm looking for.   I'm
> > wondering if by chance anyone here has already bought from this company
> > and maybe you can save me the trouble of finding out the hard way that
> > they're terrible.
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cellular console server

[Mike Hammett]

That's what I would do... out of band management network where a serial console 
(and other things) reside. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2024 2:39:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular console server 


Sorry to hijack the thread. 


I've been considering developing a few different products to broaden my product 
line so it isn't so WISP focused. One of the things I've looked at is a 
terminal server device since the existing ones seem so rediculous for the 
price. 


BUT.. to meet the price target I'd want to hit, cellular connectivity would be 
out of the question, due to the excessive cost of the testing that the cellular 
networks require to permit connection to their network. This is probably why 
the existing products which have cellular connectivity cost so much. 


I was sort of under the impression that it was pretty typical for out of band 
cellular access to use one of the off the shelf wireless routers/hotspots to 
provide management-only ip connectivity. That way, you can connect to the 
management interface on every device. Is this not the case? 


On Sun, Nov 3, 2024, 6:55 AM dbernardi < dberna...@zitomedia.net > wrote: 



Not that device in particular but the number of locations and RS-232 
ports per device may drive you in a certain direction. 

I've been looking for a new solution as well. With 100's of locations I 
find you need some sort of dashboard to track and manage devices, 
whether home-grown or from a provider. 

We originally used Opengear 3G console servers but had to replace them 
as Verizon phased out 3G service so we put together our own RPi with a 
Verizon 4G USB cellular modem and a Startech USB/RS-232 adapter with 
appropriate number of ports. That <$200 solution worked pretty well but 
if you don't pay attention to tunnel management (make sure it switches 
back to on-net link) it's easy to rack up a 5 figure Verizon bill even 
with a M2M type service. 

So if you have a lot of devices to manage having visibility into them 
and/or cellular is key. Tunnels become less important if you are 
willing to pay for static IPv4 or stable IPv6 addresses from the carrier 
but you still have to monitor them. 

I looked at some ~$1500+ devices but at scale it becomes a pretty 
significant capital project and I consider tunnel/cellular management 
more important anyhow. 

I tested the Digi Connect IT-4 with Hologram and it worked well but they 
didn't have Verizon as a carrier at the time (they do now for additional 
fee). We provide cellular backhaul to many T-Mobile and AT&T sites so 
in the event our PoP/cabinet becomes isolated the concern is that same 
towers we provide backhaul to would be how we would gain out-of-band 
access to our equipment said outage. Point being in our case having 
primary access to Verizon is important. 

I'm currently looking to test Symetry (Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T)+ Peplink 
router. Peplink has a what looks like a very nice tunnel service 
dashboard (InTouch @ ~$40/year/device) but their hardware is lacking 
console ports so you still need some type console/RS-232 server if you 
need more than 1 port. I'm considering leaving the RPi and Startech in 
place as a terminal server (works well) but using the Peplink+Intouch 
for cellular access/tunnel management (where we struggled). 

There's also consideration of what you are planning to do with RS-232 
access. Are you just doing occasional "show interface" commands when 
you lose in-band access, uploading firmware/bootloaders, or collecting 
telemetry. 

Anyhow, based on what I looked at so far, I think most of the integrated 
rack mount console servers are pretty similar in features, cost and 
reliability but your cellular related requirements may matter (eSIM or 
multiple carrier support for example). Some also seemed to differ in 
tunnel options as well if that's a consideration. 

So if the cellular console server meets your needs and cost (scale) is 
not as important, I think you'll find they all pretty much the same. 



On 11/1/2024 3:14 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
> 
> Has anyone used this product? Does it suck? 
> https://www.wti.com/products/dsm-8dcnm-e-gige-console-server-8-port- 
> rj45-dual-ethernet < https://www.wti.com/products/dsm-8dcnm-e-gige- 
> console-server-8-port-rj45-dual-ethernet> 
> 
> I got spam from this company recently, and purely by chance I was 
> researching a cellular OOB management option so I got the manual and dug 
> into it a bit. It has exactly the features I'm looking for. I'm 
> wondering if by chance anyone here has already bought from this company 
> and maybe you can save me the trouble of finding out the hard way that 
> they're terrible. 
> 
> 


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Re: [AFMUG] Xfinity NOW

[Mike Hammett]

On the Facebook groups, they're regularly recommending people call Comcast and 
threaten to leave to get a lower price. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2024 3:23:06 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Xfinity NOW 




Does anyone understand how this works, from the customer perspective? Does it 
assume you have a live but unused Xfinity coax connection in your house or 
apartment somewhere? 

What I’ve gleaned from poking around the Internet is: 

- Intended to counter low price 5G Home Internet competition 
- 100 Mbps for $30, 200 Mbps for $45 
- month-to-month prepaid service, no term contract 
- DIY install and activation 
- they send you a refurbished gateway 
- if you cancel, they don’t want the gateway back 
- you have to cancel regular Xfinity before you can get Xfinity NOW 

The part they don’t seem to explain at all is what you plug the gateway into, 
and what if you don’t have an active Xfinity drop and inside wiring? If I’m 
confused, I’d assume a lot of prospective customers are also. 

If their logic is to use this mainly for their customer retention department 
and explain it to customers who are switching to T-Mobile or Verizon Home 
Internet, I think that’s a bad plan. My experience is these days, people don’t 
call until they’ve already made the switch, you don’t really get a chance at 
“customer retention”. It’s like finding out your spouse is unhappy when they 
serve you with divorce papers. Or in my view, Internet has become a commodity 
and people make spur of the moment decision. It’s not like buying a car where 
you research alternatives for months, go back to dealers to see if you can get 
a better offer, etc. It’s like buying a candy bar at the mini mart, or a party 
dress at Ross. 
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[AFMUG] Xfinity NOW

[Ken Hohhof]

Does anyone understand how this works, from the customer perspective?  Does
it assume you have a live but unused Xfinity coax connection in your house
or apartment somewhere?

 

What I've gleaned from poking around the Internet is:

 

- Intended to counter low price 5G Home Internet competition

- 100 Mbps for $30, 200 Mbps for $45

- month-to-month prepaid service, no term contract

- DIY install and activation

- they send you a refurbished gateway

- if you cancel, they don't want the gateway back

- you have to cancel regular Xfinity before you can get Xfinity NOW

 

The part they don't seem to explain at all is what you plug the gateway
into, and what if you don't have an active Xfinity drop and inside wiring?
If I'm confused, I'd assume a lot of prospective customers are also.

 

If their logic is to use this mainly for their customer retention department
and explain it to customers who are switching to T-Mobile or Verizon Home
Internet, I think that's a bad plan.  My experience is these days, people
don't call until they've already made the switch, you don't really get a
chance at "customer retention".  It's like finding out your spouse is
unhappy when they serve you with divorce papers.  Or in my view, Internet
has become a commodity and people make spur of the moment decision.  It's
not like buying a car where you research alternatives for months, go back to
dealers to see if you can get a better offer, etc.  It's like buying a candy
bar at the mini mart, or a party dress at Ross.

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