date:20220721

Re: [AFMUG] We Want Your Ideas

2022-07-21 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

I have always found it semi humorous that they named the new digital
protocol ATSC.   The old one, NTSC got the moniker "never the same color"
(or some slight variation) due to the fact that no two TV sets seemed to
render colors the same way because of the way that color was transmitted
and interpreted.

I could just imagine the standards committee the day they decided on the
new acronym and official name.   I have no proof, but also no doubt that
someone in that meeting suggested that by replacing the N with an A one
could change "Never" into "Always".

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 4:47 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> They think they do with ATSC 3.0, as if they weren’t already putting the
> screws to the cable and satellite providers enough.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:35 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We Want Your Ideas
>
>
>
> Like OTA television has such a bright future...
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Webster
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 1:31 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We Want Your Ideas
>
>
>
> NAB has done a wonderful job at keeping TVWS so uncertain that
> manufactures gave up on it, which the NAB would probably call a win…..
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick
> - Lists
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:25 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We Want Your Ideas
>
>
>
> TVWS will always be a dog until the database is accurate and kept up.  I
> fear that NAB will never let that happen.
>
>
>
> I’d like to pull it into the SAS program.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2022, at 12:06 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> 
>
> TVWS please!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 7:58 AM Ray Savich via AF  wrote:
>
> Cambium Networks is committed to the success of broadband service
> providers around the world. We are conducting our sixth annual State of the
> Broadband Service Provider Market Survey. The vendor-neutral survey takes
> about 10 minutes to complete. The topics focus on the state of the current
> business and vision of trends and opportunities. On completion of the
> survey, Cambium Networks will be glad to provide you with a complete report
> of the survey results.
>
> Take the Survey
> 
>
> The survey results are expected to be published this summer.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> --
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>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
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>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Josh Luthman

WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
some wins.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
> That is sarcasm
> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>
>> *From:* Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
>> Then the full PE cert is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>>
>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>>
>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the
>> alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>>
>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and
>> design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant
>> experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I requested help under the service providers smaller than 100K will get 
assistance from the commission.  We will see what kind of assistance I get.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  There's 
way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get some wins.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
  That is sarcasm 
  Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
  I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. Then 
the full PE cert is required.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

Starting to look into what I have to do.

Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the 
alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

(ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and 
design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant 
experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.

I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.  

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with free 
access to the internet thrown in...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  There's 
way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get some wins.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
  That is sarcasm 
  Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
  I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. Then 
the full PE cert is required.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

Starting to look into what I have to do.

Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the 
alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

(ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and 
design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant 
experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.

I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.  

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Josh Luthman

Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with
> free access to the internet thrown in...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
> some wins.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>> That is sarcasm
>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>>
>>> *From:* Brian Webster
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
>>> Then the full PE cert is required.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> via AF
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>>>
>>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the
>>> alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>>>
>>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and
>>> design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant
>>> experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Bill Prince


electrons vs photons


bp


On 7/21/2022 11:47 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider
with free access to the internet thrown in...
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want
this.  There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but
we still did get some wins.
On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
That is sarcasm
Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare
what's coming
On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
*From:* Brian Webster
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
*Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC

Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next
18 months. Then the full PE cert is required.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com 

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown
*Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC

Starting to look into what I have to do.

Just read the certification requirements.  This is the
language of the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer
certifier:

(ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network
engineering and design, deployment, and/or performance,
and at least ten years of relevant experience in broadband
network engineering, design, and/or performance.

I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of
qualifications.

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find a 
loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not apply 
to me.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with free 
access to the internet thrown in...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  There's 
way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get some wins.

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
That is sarcasm 
Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

  From: Brian Webster 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

  Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. 
Then the full PE cert is required.

  Thank you,

  Brian Webster

  www.wirelessmapping.com

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown
  Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

  Starting to look into what I have to do.

  Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the 
alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

  (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and 
design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant 
experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.

  I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.  

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Josh Luthman

>Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access
who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find a
> loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
> apply to me.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with
>> free access to the internet thrown in...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
>> some wins.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>>> That is sarcasm
>>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.

 *From:* Brian Webster
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
 *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
 *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC


 Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
 Then the full PE cert is required.



 Thank you,

 Brian Webster

 www.wirelessmapping.com



 *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
 McCown via AF
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
 *To:* af@af.afmug.com
 *Cc:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC



 Starting to look into what I have to do.

 Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the
 alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

 (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and
 design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant
 experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.



 I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

“Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport - only 
then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally connects it to 
layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

>Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access who 
>have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find a 
loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not apply 
to me.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

  On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with 
free access to the internet thrown in...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  
There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get some 
wins.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

  I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
  That is sarcasm 
  Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
  I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. 
Then the full PE cert is required.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via 
AF
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

Starting to look into what I have to do.

Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the 
alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

(ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and 
design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant 
experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance.

I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.  

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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Jason McKemie

I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
with increased requirements?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport -
> only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access
> who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find a
>> loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
>> apply to me.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with
>>> free access to the internet thrown in...
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
>>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
>>> some wins.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
 That is sarcasm
 Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
 I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming

 On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>
> *From:* Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>
>
> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
> Then the full PE cert is required.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
> McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>
>
>
> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>
> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the
> alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>
> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering
> and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of
> relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or
> performance.
>
>
>
> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 7/21/22 7:33 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  
There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did 
get some wins.




Since shutting down the majority of my ISP operations I have literally 5 
street addresses I will continue provide service at. I don't want to 
make a stupid map or have to get some PE to certify anything.


I will happly provide a list of the 5 addresses but anything beyond that 
seems like a clusterfuck of punishment.


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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement with 
> increased requirements?
> 
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport - 
>> only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally 
>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control. 
>>  
>> From: Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>> To: Chuck McCown
>> Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>  
>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access 
>> >who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>  
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find a 
>>> loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not 
>>> apply to me. 
>>>  
>>> From: Josh Luthman
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>  
>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>  
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
>>> wrote:
 I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with 
 free access to the internet thrown in...
  
 From: Josh Luthman
 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC
  
 WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  
 There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get 
 some wins.
  
 On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones  
 wrote:
> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
> That is sarcasm
> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>  
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this. 
>>  
>> From: Brian Webster
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> Cc: 'Chuck McCown'
>> Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>  
>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. 
>> Then the full PE cert is required.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Brian Webster
>> 
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via 
>> AF
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Cc: Chuck McCown
>> Subject: [AFMUG] BDC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>> 
>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of the 
>> alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>> 
>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and 
>> design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of 
>> relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or 
>> performance.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Cameron Crum

We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> 
> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
> with increased requirements?
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport -
>> only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access
>> who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find
>>> a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
>>> apply to me.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with
 free access to the internet thrown in...

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC

 WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
 There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
 some wins.

 On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
> That is sarcasm
> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>
>> *From:* Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
>> Then the full PE cert is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>> McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>>
>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>>
>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of
>> the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>>
>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering
>> and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of
>> relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or
>> performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such a new 
and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at 
www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance. 

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement 
with increased requirements?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport - 
only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally connects 
it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access 
who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022

  On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find 
a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not 
apply to me.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

  I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider 
with free access to the internet thrown in...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.  
There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get some 
wins.

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
That is sarcasm 
Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's 
coming

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

  Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

  From: Brian Webster 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
  Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

  Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 
months. Then the full PE cert is required.

  Thank you,

  Brian Webster

  www.wirelessmapping.com

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck 
McCown via AF
  Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Cc: Chuck McCown
  Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

  Starting to look into what I have to do.

  Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language 
of the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

  (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network 
engineering and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years 
of relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or 
performance.

  I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of 
qualifications.  

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-

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Cameron Crum

Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to put
anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless you
want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the
waiver on the next 3 filings.

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such
> a new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
>> with increased requirements?
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport
>>> - only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet
>>> access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find
 a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
 apply to me.

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Cc:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC

 Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

 On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider
> with free access to the internet thrown in...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
> some wins.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>> That is sarcasm
>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's
>> coming
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>>
>>> *From:* Brian Webster
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18
>>> months. Then the full PE cert is required.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>>> McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>>>
>>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of
>>> the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>>>
>>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering
>>> and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of
>>> relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or
>>> performance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of
>>> qualifications.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

2022-07-21 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

The waiver should be made permanent.  The quality of the data will not suffer.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to put 
anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless you want 
to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the waiver on the 
next 3 filings.  

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such a 
new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.  

  From: Cameron Crum 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at 
www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance. 

  Cameron

  On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.

Sent from my iPhone

  On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement 
with increased requirements?

  On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

“Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport 
- only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally 
connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

>Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet 
access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can 
find a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should 
not apply to me.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

  Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)

  On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider 
with free access to the internet thrown in...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC

WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want 
this.  There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did 
get some wins.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

  I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us 
  That is sarcasm 
  Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
  I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's 
coming

  On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: 'Chuck McCown' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC

Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 
months. Then the full PE cert is required.

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck 
McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: [AFMUG] BDC

Starting to look into what I have to do.

Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language 
of the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:

(ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network 
engineering and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years 
of relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or 
performance.

I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of 
qualifications.  

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