On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 12:12:51 UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:46:29 UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:34:06 AM UTC-7, Bill Hart wrote: >>> >>> I don't disagree. But none of that is realistic. >>> >>> I think $100k annual is more realistically the market rate. But then you >>> get to be pushed around every day, have 9-5 working hours and deadlines. >>> I've turned down offers to interview for such positions because I prefer >>> the flexibility of academic work. >>> >>> There's no chance of tenure at any academic institution if you are >>> employed as a software engineer. So that's unrealistic. >>> >> >> I was a research programmer for a year at Utrecht University (on CGAL); >> IMHO >> it didn't hurt my tenure prospects (not that I have a tenure now, but I'm >> still around in academia :-)) >> And it was with 9-5 (and more) working hours and deadlines, and I was >> pushed around quite a bit. >> > > Sorry to hear that. We don't push people around at my institution. > > >> >> >>> And we are a mathematics dept. So hiring someone as a mathematics >>> postdoc isn't going to get this job done. >>> >> >> No, why? Are you serious? Are you yourself a tenured professor now? >> > > Because a mathematics postdoc is expected to publish mathematics, not > write software. This is part of the reason the ODK project has focused so > much on software engineers. We need them, but mathematics postdocs have > entirely different skill sets and aspirations. > > >> >> >>> I do accept the premise that higher compensation might feasibly attract >>> applicants. It's not possible though. It looks to me like the position may >>> go unfilled. >>> >> >> you have to re-package it as a postdoc; after all it's probably >> publishable work, to get something working the way you want... >> > > Umm what!? >
call these jobs WIMI (that's the right German abbreviation for a research fellow, IIRC), and not engineer. And let these people continue doing publishable research on their own, if they wish, for 20-25% of their time. And ask them to publish on stuff they'd get to work on in your project, not merely code. This way you might have a fighting chance to get CS/maths people who are potentially interested in academic career in CS/maths. IMHO, it's hopeless to attract people who are just interested in a career in industry with what you offer. > > >> >> Or/and offer part-time and/or remore work. >> > > We can't do that locally. I've asked. > > Bill. > > > >> >> Dima >> >> >>> Bill. >>> >>> On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:23:46 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 4:55:29 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We have the money. We know what needs to be done. But we have zero >>>>> applicants. There is a lack of talent, not a lack of money in some areas. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You are looking for an expert in compilers / optimization who happens >>>> to have a math graduate degree. Those obviously exist, the problem is that >>>> that this is a valuable skillset. I'm guessing to the tune of $200k annual >>>> if you work for one of the tech giants. Since you can't pay with stock >>>> options that means either >>>> >>>> a) offer market rate (and 200k for one year only is less attractive >>>> than 200k every year) >>>> >>>> b) offer flexibility (remote work etc.) >>>> >>>> c) offer a chance at tenure (long postdoc, prestigious institution, >>>> famous adviser) >>>> >>>> Its basic economics: If you didn't get any applications then your >>>> compensation is inadequate. >>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
