Dear Habib,
Run the silicon crystal diffraction without the Ni filter, you will confirm
Kleeberg's explanation.
Best regards,
Roberto de Avillez
Em seg., 4 de set. de 2023 às 07:20, Habib Boughzala <
habib.boughz...@ipein.rnu.tn> escreveu:
> Many thanks Reinhard,
>
> That's exactly what I wanted to say by "I can assure that our Bruker D8
> is clean and optimized!"
> Otherwise, in some other cases of well conditioned thin film no similar
> phenomenon is observed!
> So, yes, it's obviously possible that your point of view is right.
>
> Regards
> Habib
>
>
> ------ Message d'origine ------
> De "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>
> À "Habib Boughzala" <boughz...@yahoo.com>
> Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Date 04/09/2023 11:07:50
> Objet Re: Re[2]: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>
> Dear Habib,
> the phenomenom "satellites or edges" originates from the diffraction
> process. The critical parameters are:
> - spectral pureness of the primary beam (primary beam monochromator, tube
> spectral contamination like W...)
> - the use of K beta absorbtion filter (and its thickness)
> - the energy resolution ("window") of the detector system.
> Even a D8 system may be equipped with different types of detectors, slits
> and energy limits can be set differently for an identical configuration,
> and quite often satellite peaks may appear later in the time of use (aging
> of the tube produces more W L, Fe filters may corrode and get
> perforated...). So it is strictly recommended to check the instrument
> peridically, by measuring a full pattern of a profile standard (LaB6 or Si
> or similar).
> Greetings
> Reinhard
>
> Zitat von Habib Boughzala <boughz...@yahoo.com>:
>
>
> Dear all,
> I would like to send you my witness related to this kind of observation.
> I can assure that our Bruker D8 is clean and optimized!
>
> In many cases of well conditioned thin film (spin coating or controlled
> diffusion) material this kind of phenomenon is visible around the highest
> reflection, especially when the preferred orientation is drastically
> present.
>
> So, in my opinion, Reinhard and Alan are right, and what is observed is
> just like reflections broadening, asymmetry, shifting ...etc ... and can be
> related to the material behavior.
> Now, what is the physical (crystallographic!) property responsible of this
> phenomenon? let's open the floor for a large discussion.
>
>
> Habib
>
>
> ------ Message d'origine ------
> De "Alan W Hewat" <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
> À "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>
> Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Date 04/09/2023 09:29:08
> Objet Re: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>
>
> Reinhard is right that it is best to improve the instrument to produce
> cleaner data. I'm concerned about the advice to model all kinds of features
> whose origin is not fully understood, simply to obtain a better fit. Shay
> has told us nothing about his instrument or his conditions of data
> collection. He asks "Is it a sample preparation problem", to which the
> obvious reply is "Do you see this with other samples or different
> materials" ? Only he can answer that. If the answer is yes, he might try
> modifying his instrument (remove filters etc) to see what effect that has
> on the pattern from a simple well characterised material. Again only he can
> do that. Data collection is an experimental science, and data refinement
> should not be reduced to a "black box" computer program where extra
> parameters can be added to reduce the R-factor.
> Alan.
>
> On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 08:18, Reinhard Kleeberg <
> kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de> wrote:
>
> Can be modeled in the BGMN peak profile model as well, by modifying
> the *.lam file by a series of additional Lorentzians on the 1/lambda
> scale, see figure.
> The same can be done for other spectral impurities, e.g. W L
> satellites. Also "electronic effects" on the wavelength distribution
> profile like the "edges" from the ROI settings of Si drift detectors
> can be modelled in such a convolution based approach.
> However, better to have a pure/simple wavelength distribution (clear
> alpha1/2 doublet) by a monochromator or high energy resolution
> detector, as any satellites make trouble in trace phase analysis and
> do cause prolonged calculation time in complicated Rietveld refinements.
>
> Reinhard
>
>
>
> Zitat von Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> Topas can model them quite well. The functionality was introduced in
> version 5.
>
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023, 00:54 Kurt Leinenweber, <ku...@asu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Are these things modeled in Rietveld programs, by chance? It seems
> like a lot of baggage to put in a refinement but if it makes the results
> better…
>
>
>
> - Kurt
>
>
>
> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> *On Behalf
> Of *Thomas Gegan
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 9:16 AM
> *To:* Bish, David L <b...@indiana.edu>; Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>;
> Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
> *Subject:* RE: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>
>
>
> I agree with a Ni absorption edge, possibly with a Kβ peak around 38° 2θ.
>
>
>
> *Tom Gegan*
> Chemist III
>
>
>
> Phone: +1 732 205-5111, Email: tom.ge...@basf.com
> Postal Address: BASF Corporation, , 25 Middlesex Essex Turnpike, 08830
> Iselin, United States
>
>
>
> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> *On Behalf
> Of *Bish, David L
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 7:08 AM
> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>; Fernando Igoa <
> fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline
>
>
>
> Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> b...@indiana.edu. Learn why this is important
> <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fFhSHn4S5iEzkW-O9lvWG-OzoqK_2SKhRniGa71nxuOL3GcxiyD83i2mnNN0Z48HPkn4zjKqH-aqqA$
> >
>
> Hello Shay,
>
> I think it is probably related to "tube tails". You can read about this in
> the literature (e.g., on the BGMN web site) and you can model it in some
> Rietveld software such as Topas. You don't normally notice this but it
> becomes apparent with higher-intensity peaks.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf
> of Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 3:06 AM
> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr) <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
> *Subject:* [External] Re: Step-like basline
>
>
>
> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when
> clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>
>
>
> Hey Shay,
>
>
>
> Are you using a motorized slit during the measurement? These may open up
> abruptly to compensate for the angular dependence of the footprint and thus
> generate an abrupt increase in the intensity.
>
>
>
> Hope it helps :)
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 8:50 AM Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Rietvelders
>
> I am attaching a zoom-in on a diffraction profile.
>
> My question is what is the origin of the step-like profile next to a very
> large reflection peak?
>
> Is it a sample preparation problem?
>
> Is it part of the baseline?
>
> Thanks
>
> Shay
>
> --
>
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> --
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> Dr. R. Kleeberg
> Mineralogisches Labor
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> ______________________________________________
> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
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> ______________________________________________
>
>
>
> -- TU Bergakademie Freiberg
> Dr. R. Kleeberg
> Mineralogisches Labor
> Brennhausgasse 14
> D-09596 Freiberg
>
> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244
> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129
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