The "Force Charge " function will start the charger from the generator port or the Grid port (if Grid charging is enabled) It might take up to 5 min to qualify the power but you can manually start a charge cycle anytime with this function.
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:50 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: > Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how it works myself. My understanding is > that if the inverter is OFF due to a low voltage disconnect or otherwise, > incoming voltage on the generator smart load port will not close the relay > and start to charge the battery and power the loads. That defeats > the purpose of a dedicated generator input. > > I do not have a workaround. On one site, I have the battery BMS > controlling generator start/stop, with the generator on the AIO's grid > inputs. This is less than ideal, but with no closed-loop communication with > the inverter for this battery, it's the best option right now. I would > love to have the AIO start the generator at a voltage that is close to > 20%, but then also have the battery AGS start the generator as a failsafe > if the SOC becomes dangerously low (if the inverter doesn't trigger the AGS > based on voltage early enough). > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:19 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> This seems like a big problem. Curious if you have found a manual work >> around for this? >> >> Is it possible to force the inverter on, even briefly to start accepting >> a charge from the generator? It would be nice if the gen relay would latch >> to incoming voltage but the hardware may not allow that. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 5:40 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Is there any update on functionality to use the AIO's AGS when the >>> generator is on the Grid input? >>> >>> This is really needed. The fact that the generator smart load input >>> doesn't turn the inverters on and charge the batteries when a generator is >>> present after a low voltage cutout is really problematic. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an >>>> external AGS Start relay. There are many customers using big >>>> generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to >>>> modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in. >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can >>>>> fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at >>>>> all times, but you will lose the AGS..." >>>>> >>>>> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told >>>>> me no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed. >>>>> >>>>> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still >>>>> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS >>>>> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator >>>>> starts, >>>>> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat >>>>> itself in a loop? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the >>>>>> questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Midnite Solar does not currently have an official poster for the >>>>>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep >>>>>> to work with the installers as we always have. >>>>>> >>>>>> To address the questions that were fielded: >>>>>> >>>>>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the >>>>>> inverter if needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power, >>>>>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when >>>>>> you >>>>>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart >>>>>> (Via PV input) UNLESS the "Min Initiation Startup (off Grid)" setting >>>>>> is >>>>>> not reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached >>>>>> then >>>>>> turn on the inverter. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some other >>>>>> critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected. You >>>>>> can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL >>>>>> certifications. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And >>>>>> yes as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the >>>>>> generator is not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before >>>>>> it >>>>>> closes. The reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at >>>>>> the >>>>>> same time. But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if >>>>>> the >>>>>> PV exceeds the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect? >>>>>> No, it needs some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is >>>>>> available at all times, but you will lose the AGS. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current >>>>>> AIO's (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China >>>>>> supported inverters. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made, >>>>>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like >>>>>> some >>>>>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie >>>>>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and >>>>>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self >>>>>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the >>>>>> cloud. >>>>>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address >>>>>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated >>>>>> inhouse, and components origins verified. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing >>>>>> and not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have something >>>>>> great to offer. We are going back to our Roots (Trace, Outback, and >>>>>> Magnum, can all be linked back to this team). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On behalf of Midnite Solar >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed >>>>>>> (i.e.out of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled >>>>>>> with a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The >>>>>>> generator input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it >>>>>>> should be able to charge the battery without user intervention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason, >>>>>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the >>>>>>>> inverter gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> closed loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my >>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>> Midnite AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> with that yet. >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That has not been my experience. I have had to manually reboot >>>>>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid. If there is snow on the array >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off. This >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not >>>>>>>>> coming >>>>>>>>> back. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark: its >>>>>>>>> really not clear what the different settings do, and how they >>>>>>>>> interact. >>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech >>>>>>>>> support. At >>>>>>>>> least you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> have to get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App >>>>>>>>> updated, 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming? >>>>>>>>> Planned >>>>>>>>> Obsolescence? That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its >>>>>>>>> job..... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid >>>>>>>>> clients. In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc. >>>>>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile >>>>>>>>> 707-884-1862 office >>>>>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com >>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always >>>>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power >>>>>>>>> supply >>>>>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain >>>>>>>>> in my >>>>>>>>> aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have >>>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too. No special trip out. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and >>>>>>>>> wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self >>>>>>>>> healing >>>>>>>>> like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing >>>>>>>>> amount of >>>>>>>>> new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. (Danger Will >>>>>>>>> Robinson) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and >>>>>>>>> send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For >>>>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical >>>>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the >>>>>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the >>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC >>>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the >>>>>>>>> inverter back on automatically. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>>>>>>> RE-wrenches <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the >>>>>>>>>> gen to bypass the inverter and power loads. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>>>>>>> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>>>>>>> e-mail [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in >>>>>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. >>>>>>>>>> Unlike >>>>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid >>>>>>>>>> input in an >>>>>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems >>>>>>>>>> to work >>>>>>>>>> in my limited experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the >>>>>>>>>> low voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the >>>>>>>>>> inverter >>>>>>>>>> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would >>>>>>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the >>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS >>>>>>>>>> fails to >>>>>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is >>>>>>>>>> in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn >>>>>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON >>>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. >>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, >>>>>>>>>> non-intuitive, >>>>>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if >>>>>>>>>> you can >>>>>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the >>>>>>>>>> battery is >>>>>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the >>>>>>>>>> inverter >>>>>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state. >>>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one >>>>>>>>>> of the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 >>>>>>>>>> 18kPV >>>>>>>>>> will both immediately power loads and start charging when the >>>>>>>>>> generator is >>>>>>>>>> on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or >>>>>>>>>> Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the >>>>>>>>>> loads. This >>>>>>>>>> is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is >>>>>>>>>> met, >>>>>>>>>> and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery >>>>>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff >>>>>>>>>> is met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am >>>>>>>>>> I wrong >>>>>>>>>> about how this works? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer >>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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