wow the price has basically doubled
> On May 14, 2025, at 10:49 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I will be using a Chargeverter tomorrow to dark start a set of Pytes. I like > the idea of including one of these with every system if the customer will > pony up the money. > > I'm worried that development of the existing AIO is going to take a backseat > to the development of a new US-made model, which could take a significant > amount of time to bring to market. I'm hoping MNS we'll continue to make > improvements and fix some of these deficiencies. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Wed, May 14, 2025, 12:20 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches > <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >> In the case of extra redundancy, I have installed the EG4 Chargeverter and a >> 30A L14-30 Inlet and made the customer a suitable length L14-30 Extension >> Cord that they can use with their manual start secondary / tertiary portable >> generator just in case the primary generator has failed to start. The >> Chargeverter is quite small and can handle about 5kW of charge just in case… >> The charge voltage is programmable as is the current. It is inverter and >> battery agnostic. >> >> The Chargeverter used to be inexpensive compared to what it does. The last >> time I checked it is over $700 and also always seems to be on backorder. >> Still worth it. The Chargeverter has two wire start and can start based on >> voltage and SOC (if that is where the batteries are communicating / not that >> useful for most cases). >> >> If the Chargeverter is the primary generator AC to DC Charger, all AIO >> inverters could benefit from DC Generator = Y / N setting. Reference : >> Available setting on XW and Outback. >> >> For that matter, I am sure there are other suitable chargers that can be >> added as an emergency spare. Ten years ago or more, I added an IOTA charger >> to 24V FX inverter so the customer could use their Honda 2000 to charge the >> battery without the warbling electricity going into the house because FX >> sans PF correction… Remember those fun days? >> >> Grid >> > Inverter / Battery / Solar >> >> Generator >> >>> Generator >> >>>> Candles >> >> >> <IMG_0168.jpeg> >> >> >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. >> • Solar Commander Remote Power >> • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection >> maver...@mavericksolar.com <mailto:maver...@mavericksolar.com> >> 512-460-9825 >> >>> On May 14, 2025, at 8:55 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >>> >>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed (i.e.out of >>> fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution. >>> >>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled with a NO >>> relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The generator input >>> logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it should be able to >>> charge the battery without user intervention. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches >>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >>>> Jason, >>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter gets >>>> to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have closed loop >>>> comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first Midnite AIO >>>> setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work with that >>>> yet. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >>>>> That has not been my experience. I have had to manually reboot Solark >>>>> systems numerous time off grid. If there is snow on the array or >>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then >>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off. This >>>>> would be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full >>>>> time, but for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, >>>>> not coming back. >>>>> >>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark: its really not >>>>> clear what the different settings do, and how they interact. I'm sure >>>>> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At least >>>>> you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't have to >>>>> get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated, 10 >>>>> years from now, and you can't access the programming? Planned >>>>> Obsolescence? That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job..... >>>>> >>>>> Ray Walters >>>>> Remote Solar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid clients. In >>>>>> the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in the >>>>>> background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the >>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc. >>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile >>>>>> 707-884-1862 office >>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com <http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/> >>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>>>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always >>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power >>>>>>> supply to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious >>>>>>> pain in my aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid >>>>>>> would have enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, >>>>>>> and eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No >>>>>>> special trip out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake >>>>>>> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the >>>>>>> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self >>>>>>> healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an >>>>>>> amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. >>>>>>> (Danger Will Robinson) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send >>>>>>>> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For >>>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical >>>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator >>>>>>>> input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default >>>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC >>>>>>>> voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and >>>>>>>> turn the inverter back on automatically. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen >>>>>>>>> to bypass the inverter and power loads. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>>>>>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net> >>>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in >>>>>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. >>>>>>>>>> Unlike some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the >>>>>>>>>> Grid input in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator >>>>>>>>>> smart load breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a >>>>>>>>>> programmable circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a >>>>>>>>>> normally open internal relay that closes only when the inverter is >>>>>>>>>> ON. At least, that's how it seems to work in my limited experience. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low >>>>>>>>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the >>>>>>>>>> inverter ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the >>>>>>>>>> battery, but since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn >>>>>>>>>> on. You would have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff >>>>>>>>>> voltage/SOC below the current battery state. For people who do not >>>>>>>>>> want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to start the generator for any >>>>>>>>>> reason, getting the generator to charge the battery manually is no >>>>>>>>>> easy task. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in >>>>>>>>>> an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the >>>>>>>>>> inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON >>>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. >>>>>>>>>> And since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, >>>>>>>>>> non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is >>>>>>>>>> generator input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can >>>>>>>>>> because the relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see >>>>>>>>>> generator voltage when it is in an OFF state. >>>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of >>>>>>>>>> the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 >>>>>>>>>> 18kPV will both immediately power loads and start charging when the >>>>>>>>>> generator is on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to >>>>>>>>>> the Grid or Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through >>>>>>>>>> to the loads. This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low >>>>>>>>>> battery condition is met, and they simply stop using the battery to >>>>>>>>>> invert power if the battery conditions do not allow it, based on the >>>>>>>>>> settings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is >>>>>>>>>> met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I >>>>>>>>>> wrong about how this works? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer >>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>>> <http://re-wrenches.org/> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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