Great info. Are there any AGS out there that can communicate with Pytes or other batteries via RS-485 and trigger based on battery SOC rather than using raw voltage? That would solve one issue.
Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an > external AGS Start relay. There are many customers using big > generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to > modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in. > > On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can fully >> use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at all >> times, but you will lose the AGS..." >> >> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told me >> no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed. >> >> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still >> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS >> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator starts, >> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat >> itself in a loop? >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce < >> wlbr...@pineridgeproducts.com> wrote: >> >>> Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the >>> questions. >>> >>> Midnite Solar does not currently have an official poster for the >>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep >>> to work with the installers as we always have. >>> >>> To address the questions that were fielded: >>> >>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the >>> inverter if needed. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power, >>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when you >>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby. >>> >>> >>> >>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart (Via >>> PV input) UNLESS the "Min Initiation Startup (off Grid)" setting is not >>> reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached then turn >>> on the inverter. >>> >>> >>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some other >>> critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected. You >>> can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL >>> certifications. >>> >>> >>> >>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And yes >>> as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the generator is >>> not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before it closes. The >>> reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at the same time. >>> But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if the PV exceeds >>> the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect? No, it needs >>> some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work. >>> >>> >>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is >>> available at all times, but you will lose the AGS. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current AIO's >>> (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China >>> supported inverters. >>> >>> >>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made, >>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like some >>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie >>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and >>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self >>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the cloud. >>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address >>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated >>> inhouse, and components origins verified. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing and >>> not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have something great >>> to offer. We are going back to our Roots (Trace, Outback, and Magnum, >>> can all be linked back to this team). >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> On behalf of Midnite Solar >>> >>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed (i.e.out >>>> of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution. >>>> >>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled with >>>> a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The generator >>>> input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it should be able >>>> to charge the battery without user intervention. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter >>>>> gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have closed >>>>> loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first Midnite >>>>> AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work with >>>>> that yet. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That has not been my experience. I have had to manually reboot >>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid. If there is snow on the array or >>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then >>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off. This >>>>>> would >>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, but >>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming >>>>>> back. >>>>>> >>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark: its really >>>>>> not clear what the different settings do, and how they interact. I'm >>>>>> sure >>>>>> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At least >>>>>> you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't have to >>>>>> get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated, >>>>>> 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming? Planned >>>>>> Obsolescence? That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job..... >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid clients. >>>>>> In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in the >>>>>> background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the >>>>>> next >>>>>> day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output. >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc. >>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile >>>>>> 707-884-1862 office >>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com >>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always >>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power >>>>>> supply >>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in >>>>>> my >>>>>> aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have >>>>>> enough >>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the >>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too. No special trip out. >>>>>> >>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and >>>>>> wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the >>>>>> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self >>>>>> healing >>>>>> like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount >>>>>> of >>>>>> new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. (Danger Will >>>>>> Robinson) >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send >>>>>> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For >>>>>> retrofits, >>>>>> sometimes there can be space limitations, however. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical >>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the >>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the >>>>>> default >>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage >>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the >>>>>> inverter back on automatically. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen >>>>>>> to bypass the inverter and power loads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>>>> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>>>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net> >>>>>>> text 209 813 0060* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in >>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike >>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input >>>>>>> in an >>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is >>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that >>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> in my limited experience. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low >>>>>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON >>>>>>> for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to >>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current >>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to >>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the >>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in >>>>>>> an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn >>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON >>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And >>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, >>>>>>> non-intuitive, >>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the >>>>>>> inverter >>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state. >>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of >>>>>>> the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is >>>>>>> on, >>>>>>> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or >>>>>>> Generator >>>>>>> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is >>>>>>> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery >>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is >>>>>>> met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong >>>>>>> about how this works? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer >>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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