Aloha All, >From the Midnite Manual:
Page 3 Solar PV+/PV- are UNGROUNDED. Note, you may ground PV Racking/Mounts, but doing so directly to the MIDNITE will likely result in damage in the case of a direct lightning strike to the PV array. Ground the PV racking directly to earth ground. Page 11 It is required per code in the US and Canada to ground the mounting frame from the PV array to an external grounding system. >From the Sol-Ark 15K Manual Page 5 Solar PV+/PV- are UNGROUNDED. Note, you may ground PV Racking/Mounts, but doing so directly to the Sol-Ark will likely result in damage in the case of a direct lightning strike to the PV array. Aloha, Lou Russo Owner l...@spreesolarsystems.com Office - 808 345 6762 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 8:33 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Same with the Midnite AIO. They are very explicit in the instruction > manual. > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 9:23 AM James Jarvis via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> There isn't. It's a cultural thing. All of our Japanese machines have >> completely different grounding schemes that they want because that is >> standard in Japan. That's my two cents >> >> thank you, >> >> -James Jefferson Jarvis >> APRS World, LLC >> +1-507-454-2727 >> >> (apologies for the brevity and spelling...from my phone) >> >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024, 11:02 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Can someone/s offer up any solid electrical engineering reason for that? >>> >>> >>> Makes no sense to me. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> On Nov 10, 2024, at 9:12 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> SolArk tech support told us that the PV array ground shouldn’t land on >>> the inverter ground bar. But instead should be run to its own local >>> electrode. or if you're grid tied it can land on the ground bar at the >>> Main AC >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 6:27 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> This is very valuable information. The homeowner sourced these four >>>> inverters from someone else before I got involved. Three of the four >>>> inverters have a Savant sticker on the front of them. The one without the >>>> Savant sticker is NOT the one that is having the problem, but it is >>>> adjacent to it. The stickerless inverter is #2 (first slave), but the >>>> problem inverter is #3 (second slave). I am assuming the three with the >>>> stickers are the same (#1, #3, and #4), but perhaps the one without the >>>> sticker has different hardware. I will do a visual inspection the next time >>>> I am out there. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 4:33 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We've noticed a compatability issue with the limitless 15k units and >>>>> the newest incarnation of the same(limitless 15k) inverter(additional >>>>> circuitry in the wiring compartment associated with the pv inputs is the >>>>> one way I'm aware of to tell the difference)..the older units and the >>>>> newer >>>>> units don't seem to play nice with each other though they work fine >>>>> independently. The problem we had was one was throwing an arc fault error >>>>> and the other parallel faulting in response. The ultimate fix was >>>>> replacing >>>>> the older one with a newer one to match. Not sure if that's what is >>>>> happening at your site but after extensive troubleshooting our conclusion >>>>> was one inverter was sensing something in the other inverter. May be worth >>>>> checking to see if they are all the exact same hardware. >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 8:46 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I agree with that diagnosis. I did a visual inspection of the boards >>>>>> and ribbon cables, and everything seems to be okay. It's strange that the >>>>>> inverter worked fine in standalone mode. That points to something in the >>>>>> paralleling circuitry or software. Getting past Tier 1 tech support can >>>>>> be >>>>>> agonizing, but at least I have an established case now. As a customer >>>>>> service gesture, I'm prepared to take a new unit off my shelf and fight >>>>>> with Sol-Ark later to get this system back up and running as the quad >>>>>> setup >>>>>> that my customer purchased. This should have been a clear cut RMA by >>>>>> Tier 1 >>>>>> support in my opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 11:33 AM Jerry Shafer < >>>>>> jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason, >>>>>>> Everything points to a internal issue maybe with a CT, ribbon >>>>>>> connection or just a bad board, regardless a new inverter is the key and >>>>>>> solark should really want to investigate the issue themselves anyway. >>>>>>> Fun times >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 7:16 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system >>>>>>>> that was shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four >>>>>>>> inverters >>>>>>>> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The >>>>>>>> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent >>>>>>>> faults on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire >>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>> down due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC >>>>>>>> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four >>>>>>>> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's >>>>>>>> strong >>>>>>>> suit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four >>>>>>>> load breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the >>>>>>>> GEN >>>>>>>> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others >>>>>>>> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an >>>>>>>> internal fault. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off >>>>>>>> all inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation >>>>>>>> mode. >>>>>>>> As a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire >>>>>>>> house >>>>>>>> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation >>>>>>>> again >>>>>>>> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long >>>>>>>> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault >>>>>>>> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it >>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can >>>>>>>> only be >>>>>>>> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of >>>>>>>> suspect components or the whole unit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad >>>>>>>> inverter out of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> down would work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. >>>>>>>> When >>>>>>>> turning it off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the >>>>>>>> 4th >>>>>>>> inverter would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not >>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>> relayed, but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> continue working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> battery disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> on/off button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> #2 to #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then >>>>>>>> everything >>>>>>>> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to >>>>>>>> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this >>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a >>>>>>>> Cat5 splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did >>>>>>>> successfully >>>>>>>> to jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still >>>>>>>> would not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the >>>>>>>> Modbus >>>>>>>> address from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> sequential for it to work. Once I did this, I was able to get the >>>>>>>> system up >>>>>>>> and running again as a triple-inverter parallel setup. No faults were >>>>>>>> observed. So the theory was proven that #3 has an issue internally. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, bottom line, I am disappointed at how one inverter fault >>>>>>>> takes down the whole paralleled system, and also how taking a faulted >>>>>>>> inverter out of the system requires physical and programming changes. >>>>>>>> Turning it off should be sufficient. This is a very poor way to >>>>>>>> implement a >>>>>>>> parallel system that should provide the peace of mind that redundancy >>>>>>>> implies. Now I have a customer who thought they were getting a system >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> failsafe redundancy that actually requires a service call every time >>>>>>>> one of >>>>>>>> the paralleled units decides it does not want to play nicely with >>>>>>>> others. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmornings...@gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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