There isn't. It's a cultural thing. All of our Japanese machines have completely different grounding schemes that they want because that is standard in Japan. That's my two cents
thank you, -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 (apologies for the brevity and spelling...from my phone) On Sun, Nov 10, 2024, 11:02 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Can someone/s offer up any solid electrical engineering reason for that? > > Makes no sense to me. > > Jay > > On Nov 10, 2024, at 9:12 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > SolArk tech support told us that the PV array ground shouldn’t land on the > inverter ground bar. But instead should be run to its own local electrode. > or if you're grid tied it can land on the ground bar at the Main AC > > > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 6:27 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> This is very valuable information. The homeowner sourced these four >> inverters from someone else before I got involved. Three of the four >> inverters have a Savant sticker on the front of them. The one without the >> Savant sticker is NOT the one that is having the problem, but it is >> adjacent to it. The stickerless inverter is #2 (first slave), but the >> problem inverter is #3 (second slave). I am assuming the three with the >> stickers are the same (#1, #3, and #4), but perhaps the one without the >> sticker has different hardware. I will do a visual inspection the next time >> I am out there. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 4:33 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> We've noticed a compatability issue with the limitless 15k units and the >>> newest incarnation of the same(limitless 15k) inverter(additional circuitry >>> in the wiring compartment associated with the pv inputs is the one way I'm >>> aware of to tell the difference)..the older units and the newer units don't >>> seem to play nice with each other though they work fine independently. The >>> problem we had was one was throwing an arc fault error and the other >>> parallel faulting in response. The ultimate fix was replacing the older one >>> with a newer one to match. Not sure if that's what is happening at your >>> site but after extensive troubleshooting our conclusion was one inverter >>> was sensing something in the other inverter. May be worth checking to see >>> if they are all the exact same hardware. >>> Good luck. >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 8:46 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with that diagnosis. I did a visual inspection of the boards >>>> and ribbon cables, and everything seems to be okay. It's strange that the >>>> inverter worked fine in standalone mode. That points to something in the >>>> paralleling circuitry or software. Getting past Tier 1 tech support can be >>>> agonizing, but at least I have an established case now. As a customer >>>> service gesture, I'm prepared to take a new unit off my shelf and fight >>>> with Sol-Ark later to get this system back up and running as the quad setup >>>> that my customer purchased. This should have been a clear cut RMA by Tier 1 >>>> support in my opinion. >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 11:33 AM Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> Everything points to a internal issue maybe with a CT, ribbon >>>>> connection or just a bad board, regardless a new inverter is the key and >>>>> solark should really want to investigate the issue themselves anyway. >>>>> Fun times >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 7:16 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that >>>>>> was shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters >>>>>> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The >>>>>> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code. >>>>>> >>>>>> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent >>>>>> faults on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire >>>>>> system >>>>>> down due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC >>>>>> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four >>>>>> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this >>>>>> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's >>>>>> strong >>>>>> suit. >>>>>> >>>>>> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four >>>>>> load breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN >>>>>> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the >>>>>> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others >>>>>> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by >>>>>> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an >>>>>> internal fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off >>>>>> all inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation >>>>>> mode. >>>>>> As a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire >>>>>> house >>>>>> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again >>>>>> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long >>>>>> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault >>>>>> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened >>>>>> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only >>>>>> be >>>>>> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of >>>>>> suspect components or the whole unit. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad inverter >>>>>> out of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it down >>>>>> would >>>>>> work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. When turning >>>>>> it >>>>>> off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the 4th inverter >>>>>> would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not being relayed, >>>>>> but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to also >>>>>> continue >>>>>> working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on the battery >>>>>> disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing the on/off >>>>>> button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal from #2 >>>>>> to >>>>>> #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then everything >>>>>> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to >>>>>> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a Cat5 >>>>>> splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did successfully to >>>>>> jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still >>>>>> would >>>>>> not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the Modbus >>>>>> address >>>>>> from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need to be >>>>>> sequential for it to work. Once I did this, I was able to get the system >>>>>> up >>>>>> and running again as a triple-inverter parallel setup. No faults were >>>>>> observed. So the theory was proven that #3 has an issue internally. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, bottom line, I am disappointed at how one inverter fault >>>>>> takes down the whole paralleled system, and also how taking a faulted >>>>>> inverter out of the system requires physical and programming changes. >>>>>> Turning it off should be sufficient. This is a very poor way to >>>>>> implement a >>>>>> parallel system that should provide the peace of mind that redundancy >>>>>> implies. Now I have a customer who thought they were getting a system >>>>>> with >>>>>> failsafe redundancy that actually requires a service call every time one >>>>>> of >>>>>> the paralleled units decides it does not want to play nicely with others. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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