Interesting, because that has not been my experience, and Solark
confirmed that when the inverter shuts down, the PV charging does too.
Maybe that has changed in a firmware update. Or possibly, the inverter
went through LBCO on the output as you mentioned, then dropped further
through the night to shut down completely by the next morning. Either
way, the system has required manually resetting to start charging again.
Ray Walters
On 10/11/2024 3:57 PM, Chris Sparadeo wrote:
Hi Ray,
I don’t think your understanding of the Sol Ark’s PV and LBCO
relationship reflects actual functionality. Technically, Sol Ark
doesn’t have a formal LBCO, but it has a “shut down” setting that cuts
out AC output and can be programmed to cut off and cut back in at
selected SOC or voltage settings, but as long as the battery is
connected, the Sol Ark sees that voltage and PV production if
available, solar production will recharge batteries, regardless of AC
output.
But yes, I agrees that AIO’s could use a healthy dose of redundancy to
allow for less fickle output.
-Chris
On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 5:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Another reason to do separate charge controllers is Low battery.
If the AIO inverter hits its LBCO, then it takes out the PV input
as well. Then the draw of the BCM takes what's left in the
battery, and you're into a dark start. Generator won't even
help. AIOs are easy to install, but not as full proof as DC
coupled PV systems. Also, the inter communication is a major
issue. I've seen inter connected charge controllers take each
other out, which really defeats the redundancy of having multiple
units. I'm sure many on the list will question my wisdom; but I
usually don't interconnect any of the equipment from a comms stand
point. I use open loop charging based on voltage.
I once had a pinched temp sensor, that thought the batteries were
at 5000 deg Kelvin. It shut all 4 inverters down. My most
reliable multiple inverter setup is a four SW4048 system that is
now 24 years old. Each inverter feeds one leg of two load
centers. No comms, No 240 vac loads. No shut downs. That is the
gold standard, and none of the AIO stuff, nor the module level
rapid shutdown etc, can even get close to the level of reliability
we had in the past. In the off grid world, shut downs can be life
threatening, and all the additional "safety" stuff added to the
code since, has actually made my off grid customers less safe.
You have to think what happens if the battery gets low, and no one
is home? Can it recover on its own, like a traditional DC coupled
Lead acid system? Basically, If the system can't hit LBCO,
recharge the next day, and automatically turn loads back on, we've
gone backwards in our designs, and equipment selection. AIOs are
inferior if they can't achieve this basic functionality. If UL
standards are causing this, then those standards are incorrect for
critical off grid and backup applications.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 10/10/2024 4:02 PM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote:
Install stand-alone charge controllers. That is the only way to
get redundancy.
Eric Smiley (he/him) - Design Manager
250.703.6004
e...@vecoop.ca
888.386.0116
3-4997 Polkey Rd, Duncan BC, V9L 6W3
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/4997+Polkey+Rd,%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++Duncan+BC,+V9L+6W3?entry=gmail&source=g>
viridiansolar.ca
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://viridiansolar.ca&source=gmail-html&ust=1702155901939000&usg=AOvVaw3SHpXB-WRSlzWmjpz4htqG>
Viridian Solar honours the ancestral grounds on which we live and
provide services, recognising that these lands are unceded
Indigenous territory. We are steadfast in our commitment to
reconciliation and acknowledge the rich history and traditions
that characterise this land that we all consider home.
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 at 14:59, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Aloha All,
Thank you Jason. This is a huge and surprising issue. So much
so that I dropped what I was doing and called Sol-Ark to
confirm. Mind you this was level 1 support, but I was told
this is what the Sol-Arks are supposed to do and it is a
feature not a bug. Their take is if there is any fault on any
one string, the Sol-Ark assumes the worst and shuts
everything down.
I wonder what solutions could be implemented on future
installs to prevent this from happening?
Aloha,
Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
Office - 808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322
On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 11:45 AM Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
I think it's more likely water in a J-box or possibly
physical damage, but someone passed by the property and
did not observe any physical damage to the array.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 5:41 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Jason
What’s the possibllity it was a lighting strike?
Jay
On Oct 10, 2024, at 2:57 PM, Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
We have been talking a lot recently about
all-in-ones. I just had a massive fail during
Hurricane Milton with a quad Sol-Ark 15K off-grid
system that deserves some discussion about whether
AIO is a good idea if it can't build in some
resilience to errors. I'm not sure if the new
Midnite unit is better in this respect, but this is
what happened to the Sol-Ark system...
Four inverters, each with 4 strings of PV paralleled
to 2 MPPT per inverter. One of the slave units
developed some sort of PV DC fault during the storm.
This caused the slave inverter to shut down and
throw an error, which in turn caused a parallel
fault across all four inverters. Power output ceases
at that point. Apparently the system keeps resetting
because I have a cell modem that uploads data to
Sol-Ark, but that cell modem is powered by the
inverter outputs, so it must be getting power at
least intermittently. The rest of the loads are
basically flatlined according to the Sol-Ark data.
It's mostly air conditioners, so they probably can't
turn on fast enough before the PV fault causes
another shutdown.
So, in essence, one of 16 strings of PV develops a
fault, and that causes all four inverters to
malfunction? What is the point of redundancy if a
fault of one results in a fault of all?! If there is
a true PV input fault, shouldn't that just shut down
that MPPT, or perhaps all of the PV DC input to that
inverter? And why can't this inverter continue to
invert power from the batteries and charge from a
generator when there is a DC input fault that could
be programmatically isolated and ignored?
This is a bad design in my opinion, and something I
hadn't considered. If the faulted inverter can't
function with a DC input fault, it should just take
itself out of the game. (This is 120/240 split
phase, BTW). Is this how all AIO inverters work? One
inverter fault on the DC side kills all paralleled
units' AC output? Not good.
This is a completely off-grid system on a remote
island with no vehicle access, so it's not exactly
easy to do a "truck roll" on this one, especially
post-hurricane. To make matters worse, the generator
was running at the time of the fault, as it was
being signaled to run because the battery had
reached the assigned charge voltage. The fault also
killed the 2-wire start signal from the master, so
the system also stopped passing through generator
power to the loads. The house is dark.
Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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