Hi Jason One thought I have about the blowing fuse is to check it with a IR tool.
I suspect a poor connection of the fuse to holder which during higher air temp is causing it to fail. I’m assuming that the correct amp size and slow blow fuse Is installed and that the wire connections are done correctly. But again an IR tool during peak heat would be a good test. About the enphase fix, wow what a head scratcher. But given that it’s fixed it means that it’s not a short, but enough amps going through over enough time to trip it. I wonder if a magnetic hydraulic vs thermal breaker ( CBI vs CH etc) would have worked? Is that breaker box ever in the sun? Is there any Correlation between high ambient temperatures and tripping? It sure would keep me up at night too Jay > On Aug 27, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Jason Szumlanski > <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > > > So the resolution to this is in... But I still have no idea what was wrong. > > The string of 10 offending microinverters was split into 5 and 5. We had a > spare breaker in the IQ Combiner so it was relatively easy to run another > branch circuit. It has been over two months with no recurrence. So the issue > seems to be resolved, but again, no idea why. > > So here we go again... On another system we have a similar problem now. In > this case it is supply side interconnected with a fusible disconnect. The > same fuse (same line) keeps blowing every few to several weeks. We can't find > any home run wiring issues or issues with terminator caps. There are no > apparent faults in the AC Combiner. We have no idea why this is happening. > But in this system, just the fuse blows, not one of the individual branch > circuit breakers. > > This is getting very frustrating. And this is way more serious because fuses > and service calls are expensive and I can't isolate the issue to one branch > circuit. I don't even know where to start. Leaving each circuit disconnected > for several weeks to prove a negative is an untenable suggestion to make to a > client. But I don't see any other good options. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 3:42 PM Jason Szumlanski >> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> Yes, we double-checked that. I have seen that happen before and it's one of >> my early diagnostic steps for something like this. >> >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:18 AM Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> Are you certain that the branch circuits aren't crisscrossed somewhere, >>> meaning that an L1 branch 1, isn't connected to an L2 branch 2? That could >>> explain two different breakers tripping. >>> >>> Good luck >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:07 PM Jason Szumlanski >>>> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>> Undoubtedly, the termination caps are the second thing we check after the >>>> rooftop junction box(es). These are prone to installation errors, even >>>> when the right parts are used. And given the cost, I've thought very long >>>> and hard about abandoning them altogether and terminating strings in small >>>> j-boxes with watertight fittings. But in this case, there was no evidence >>>> of improper installation (we replaced them) and it was not correlated to >>>> rain events. >>>> >>>> We are well equipped with bare Q-cable and field wireables that we could >>>> use for troubleshooting to bypass certain sections, but the intermittent >>>> nature of the problem and unpredictable timeframe between faults is very >>>> frustrating. While this is a rare occurrence, it is definitely a "con" to >>>> consider when comparing string vs. microinverters that I had not strongly >>>> considered in the past. I'm intent on getting to the bottom of this in >>>> order to learn what to look for in the future and how to approach >>>> diagnoses of Enphase branch circuit faults. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:31 PM Amos Post <integrityenergy...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> I was just at a site last week where the Enphase branch circuit breaker, >>>>> outside utility disconnect breaker, and feed breaker in the main panel >>>>> all tripped simultaneously, and it happened about 1 hour before I showed >>>>> up onsite. The customer said it had happened 1 other time last fall but >>>>> that time it was just the 1 branch circuit in the Enphase combiner panel. >>>>> Interestingly the customer mentioned that he had just washed off the >>>>> panels, also about 1 hour before I got there. I went on the roof and >>>>> found that the installing contractor had not put on the Enphase >>>>> termination caps. 1 string was wire-nutted with regular wire nuts and >>>>> sitting on the roof, and the roof was damp right there. This was a fairly >>>>> flat roof. The other micro trunk cable was just cut with no protection >>>>> at all, tied to the rail… >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <IE LOGO 150x78.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Amos Post >>>>> Integrity Energy >>>>> W 802.763.7023 >>>>> C 802.291.2188 >>>>> ienergyVT.com >>>>> Facebook >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The breaker in the main panel IS tripping simultaneously with one of the >>>>>> branch circuit breakers each time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> A question that keeps nagging me is why do these breakers trip and not >>>>>>> the breaker in the main panel? >>>>>>> Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have tripped >>>>>>> at some point that one would have tripped and I can’t understand why >>>>>>> not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wrenches >>>>>>>> Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very >>>>>>>> likely do to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested >>>>>>>> in a previous message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one >>>>>>>> or both legs that trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if >>>>>>>> anything leads up to the failure and when. >>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output >>>>>>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue >>>>>>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to >>>>>>>>> the microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at >>>>>>>>> night? I had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film >>>>>>>>> capacitors on the AC output side, but are these isolated when there >>>>>>>>> is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this would be an issue, but I >>>>>>>>> have seen microinverters reporting a couple of watts at night (in >>>>>>>>> Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH >>>>>>>>> a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? >>>>>>>>> That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, >>>>>>>>> you don't often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder >>>>>>>>> circuit breakers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the >>>>>>>>> BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would >>>>>>>>> think this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are >>>>>>>>> tons of CH feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits >>>>>>>>> downstream. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM >>>>>>>>>> <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the >>>>>>>>>> inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the >>>>>>>>>> grid. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I >>>>>>>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That >>>>>>>>>>> was my first suspicion. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray <r...@solarray.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Is it at all weather related? Rain, or high humidity? High >>>>>>>>>>> temperatures? Do you have any indication what time of day it trips >>>>>>>>>>> off at? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760 >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch >>>>>>>>>>>> circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same >>>>>>>>>>>> branch this time. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which >>>>>>>>>>>> breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for >>>>>>>>>>>> about two weeks and then trip again. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole >>>>>>>>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, >>>>>>>>>>>> I feel that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an >>>>>>>>>>>> expensive proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this >>>>>>>>>>>> point. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>>> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we >>>>>>>>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I >>>>>>>>>>>> doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be >>>>>>>>>>>> the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit >>>>>>>>>>>> breakers were tripping simultaneously with the combined output >>>>>>>>>>>> breaker. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have >>>>>>>>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I >>>>>>>>>>>> have seen many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried >>>>>>>>>>>> early on that I would be replacing fuses constantly, but that has >>>>>>>>>>>> not been an issue whatsoever. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM <scot.a...@solarcentex.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and >>>>>>>>>>>> max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped >>>>>>>>>>>> the string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped >>>>>>>>>>>> again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We >>>>>>>>>>>> suspect the breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've >>>>>>>>>>>> add equally nice days since. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 >>>>>>>>>>>> watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be >>>>>>>>>>>> extra careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the >>>>>>>>>>>> max published... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My story. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Scot >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and >>>>>>>>>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 >>>>>>>>>>>> microinverters each coming into an Enphase AC combiner. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit >>>>>>>>>>>> breakers and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load >>>>>>>>>>>> center have been tripping simultaneously. It has happened about >>>>>>>>>>>> four times in the last 6 months. It was always the same branch >>>>>>>>>>>> circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, checking >>>>>>>>>>>> the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped >>>>>>>>>>>> out the BR220 breaker. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a >>>>>>>>>>>> different branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped >>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously. We checked that branch circuit and could not find >>>>>>>>>>>> any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch circuit breakers >>>>>>>>>>>> would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main >>>>>>>>>>>> breaker in hopes that it is the culprit. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers >>>>>>>>>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on >>>>>>>>>>>> another diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major >>>>>>>>>>>> hassle. One thought I had was to switch to a supply side >>>>>>>>>>>> interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent >>>>>>>>>>>> fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could >>>>>>>>>>>> narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a >>>>>>>>>>>> fault. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase >>>>>>>>>>>> systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One >>>>>>>>>>>> turned out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up >>>>>>>>>>>> and landed on different breakers. Another time we had an inverter >>>>>>>>>>>> with an internal fault which eventually"blew up" with a loud >>>>>>>>>>>> popping noise and smoke billowing out of it. That happened after >>>>>>>>>>>> resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case seems to be >>>>>>>>>>>> unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > > <IE LOGO 150x78.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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