I would use Concorde VRLA batteries. They can take a very fast charge.
In certain conditions they can charge at C X 5 instead of C/5.
---
On 2020-05-25 18:13, Jay wrote:
You might check out discover batteries.
I'm a big fan of companies they make their equipment, they do, one of the very few in the lithium world.
And while the original question specifically asked about Lithium, what you're requiring is perfectly suited for VRLA float service batteries.
Long life, much lower cost.
Jay
Peltz power.
On May 25, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net>
wrote:
Jay knows about these and I won't name them just because I use them. They are the perfect size for most offgrid and scalable.
I have a client in Texas who left them for 14 months off, and maybe they lost 1%. The best part of them for me, is all a client has to do is enter the date in the system control panel and all of the rest is done. True plug and play. Built by a company that has made locomotive batteries for decades. I asked them Jay on linkedin. He said do what you want with Soc. Don't worry about any of that. Just know that we have you covered. Below is from their latest webinar.
For a solar installation to pass final inspection, the batteries must have been tested and approved to UL 1973. Not just the cell but the battery. So, before making a final selection, verify that the battery selection you make has you covered. These LiFePO4 batteries meet this certification, so you can be confident that your customers batteries are safe and pass inspection. Our commitment to safety, reliability and certification also delivers the following.
* Safe and Maintenance Free
* Sophisticated High Current BMS
* Field Serviceable BMS
* IP 55 Rated
* IEC 62133 Safety
* UL 1973 Safety Certified
* UN 38.3 Transport Certified
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On Sun, 24 May 2020 21:05:06 -0700, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
It may take a little bit as it wrapped up just over 2 years ago, most of the research stayed at the lab. I do recall V2 did not survive the cycling test, it was unable to restart from 99% dod. There is no substitute for a multi-level battery management structure when it comes to Li tech. I have priced simplify dirt to keys and it cost more then Blue did and required more space. There was another one that came in near the end and was built in what appeared to be a 66" tall chemical storage cabinet just to make it fire rated, maybe it's just me but batteries that can catch fire may not be the best choice but hey I'm funny like that. Anyone installing any batteries needs to read the very fine print that talks about "what to do in case of" and that can be a deciding factor right there.
Way back when all FLA's had to be in a pan to catch the acid before it did damage, that was 20 years ago by now it should be safer not more dangerous.
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 8:36 PM jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
HI Jerry,
Most impressive.
Would you be willing to tell us which ones didn't meet this test, if not publicly, then off list?
thanks
jay
On May 24, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrenches
Again not all batteries are the same, Chemistry, recharge rate or intelligence of the BMS, l have personally tested Blue planet batteries, l have let them sit at 100% SOC for 10 weeks, ran them at 30% SOC for 6 months, l have performed 100% to 0% cycling up to 4 times a day. This is the same tests l ran on a variety of Li tech batteries and BluePlanet is the only one that survived this testing. It's ore then spec sheets and cost, it comes down to success or failure, personally l like success and being able to pass or fail batteries without having my customers pay the price is a good thing. Blue Planet has 8000 cycles life and a 15 year warranty at 70% compare that to anything out there but again that's just me.
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 1:32 PM Darryl Thayer <darylsol...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have spoken with a li battery
researcher. Do not charge over 85% of battery full charge voltage and they will last over 25 years. But go above or below bottom and trouble
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:27 AM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
One question I have for those more versed than me in lithium is, I'm under the impression that having a lithium battery in float for years isn't good for it. Or at the very least it has to be cycled with some regularity.
I'd like to hear data on that
Thx
Jay
Peltz power.
On May 23, 2020, at 10:08 PM, Ray <r...@solarray.com> wrote:
I suggest starting with a very simple look at the continuous output rating of the battery and match that to the inverter continuous rating. This ends up with quite a bit more battery than you might think at first. However, if the customer paid the big bucks for a battery backup system, they should at least get enough battery to operate the inverter at its rated power. Anything less, I would consider poor design. The same goes for lead acid batteries, they just don't work well, even on grid, when the battery is undersized. Even lead acid batteries have maximum current output ratings that should at least be matched to the inverter rating.
If you WERE going to under size the battery, then you should keep it safe by reducing the
size of the inverter battery breaker as well. I know this "micro battery for
GTB" is becoming a trend, but it doesn't mean its right.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 5/23/20 5:48 PM, Mick Abraham wrote:
Greetings, All~ Mark Frye had asked: "...with a 4000w Outback Radian, AC coupled with 2000w of PV, what is the smallest Li battery I would want for stable operation?"
Mick's reply: In the lithium arena, one often finds the ratings in kilowatt-hours rather than in amp-hours. This is an easy conversion for us energy nerds to make, so below I'm mainly using watts & watt-hours with occasional conversions to amp-hours.
I suggest that you start with the spec sheet (of whichever brand lithium battery is on your radar), & see what the manufacturer says about "allowable rate of recharge". You may find that C/2 is an acceptable rate with several manufacturers, Mark--much faster than what we're accustomed to with typical lead-acid batteries. Let's assume:
* ...that your AC coupled PV array crests around 1800 watts to the battery when there are no loads
* ...that the battery is below 100% state of charge, and
* ...that the solar conditions are optimal.
Let's further assume that those conditions represent your battery's highest energy rate in either direction.
1800w X two hours = 3,600 watt-hours dividing by 48v nominal = 75 amp-hours in the above hypothetical situation.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The rate at which a battery can receive energy is (usually) also the rate at which it can comfortably deplete, so let's briefly look at the flip side: Assuming the battery mfr. wants the watt-hours to be no less than two times the maximum wattage, a 3600 watt-hour (C/2) battery should not be depleted faster than 1800 watts. Your 4kW Radian, Mark, could exceed that if the loads demand it--& maybe your loads don't. Motor starting surges should probably be part of the thinking & it wouldn't hurt to ask the mfr.'s opinion about short term surges which briefly deplete the battery faster than the hypothetical two hour rate.
By approaching this question based on the battery manufacturer do's & don'ts, one improves the chance of getting warranty coverage should it later be needed. "What the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away."
The Wrench List is the Bomb!
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com [3]
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