After swearing off brand X I did a XW system this last spring. The customer needed two AC inputs and unfortunately the GVFX topology still only has one. On the single occasion I called Xantrex to ask how to raise the sell (grid support) voltage the "tech support" person told me to do what I already had done and hadn't worked. When I asked for other suggestions he said he had none. The issue is still unresolved. I was unimpressed and expect far better from tech support then this.
Todd On Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:09pm, "Drake Chamberlin" <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> said: Hi Peter, Do you need the extra fan? The VFX has an internal fan. Arethere a lot of heavy loads that push the limits of the Outback? Ifnot, take out the fan or swap it for a cover with no fan. Many VFXinverters didn't come with cover fans. I don't know if they arestandard now, or not. Or, have the fan go on whenever the direct grid tie inverter is beingcalled on to charge batteries instead of feed the grid. If loadsare not real heavy, battery charging, by back feeding the AC Out, may bethe time when the fan is needed the most. Before inverters started controlling generators, we used a device calledthe Simple Switch, which was a voltage controlled contact. (We'duse it with a GenWiz). I'm not sure what is out there these days.You could use the Atkinson GSCM, generator start module, which senses thevoltage. If you need this solution, I'd call AEE. Thanks for the heads up on the Xantrex. I just heard another horrorstory about the Xantrex 6024 system. According to the installer,the owner shut off an AC switch and the array cooked a bank of Surrette25CS 25 PS batteries. I don't know the new Xantrex line and don'tunderstand how this could happen. Is this really possible? -Drake At 06:43 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote: HiDrake (and everyone else interested in this thread), Armed with the information from my esteemed colleagues, we went ahead andpurchased a SunWise “Solar Ready-Grid Tie Battery System”, a SRB3.6 to beexact. The heart of the system is a GVFX3648. I ordered it without theCharge controller and purchased a SB3000 and 3150 Wdc of PV to go withit. I also purchased a Grainger 2P2T relay with a 12 V coil in a NCconfiguration (to disconnect the SB when the batteries are fully chargedin off-grid mode) and an Outback PSX-240 to transform the 240 Vac to 120Vac (in order to interface with the GVFX3648. When we looked into hooking the relay up to the AUX-OUT of the GVFX3648,we discovered that it was already dedicated to the fan… So it looks like we will need to put something together to sense thebattery voltage and energize the relay coil, when we exceed thethreshold. Any recommendations for a add-on HVD? And exactly whatthreshold voltage should we use for 8ea 6V 305 Ah (C/24) AGMbatteries? And for Drake: I gravitated away from Xantrex because of a veryunsatisfactory experience with a XW6048. The system failed to workproperly and Xantrex “hemmed and hawed” for over six months. Bottom line:we made six service calls, two firmware upgrades and probably two dozencalls to largely clueless group tech supporters. Through it all, I lostthe customer’s confidence and he chose another integrator to do a followon commercial project. The last part of course was the worst part of theexperience. - Peter Hi Peter, The Outback inverter will not regulate battery charge while ACcoupled. The SMA is the only system designed to give a regulatedcharge to batteries in the AC coupled mode. The Outback auxiliary relaycan be used to drive a relay that will disconnect the input to theinverter, to regulate battery charge when grid is down. I like an"Ice Cube Rely" (such as Idec) to control a contactor. The coil of the Idec uses very little power. Why did you gravitate toward Xantrex from Outback? Drake At 09:25 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote: I wouldlike to start a thread on AC-coupled grid tied battery backup systems. Wedo a fair number of GTBBSs (four to five a year) and I have gravitatedfrom the Outback solution to the Xantrex XW solution. I am not happy withthe XW product and especially not happy with Xantrexs post salestechnical support. I know I have more to learn about these puppies ingeneral, so I am genuinely disappointed with the uneven TS fromXantrex. I also had this nagging feeling that theheart of a GTBBS should be the tried and true high voltage inverter.Enter the SunPower positive ground requirement, and now an AC coupledsystem seems the best solution. >From the white paper that Outback sent me, there was no mention of aheavy duty >relay. Doesnt the Outback inverter regulate the battery chargecontrol? Has anyone tried to order a SunWize Solar Ready Battery Assemblywithoutthe charge controller (e.g. P/N SRB3.6). It would seem that this is anice package for small energy needs (13 to 26 kWh of batterybackup). - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com] peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax323-258-8885 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf OfWilliam Miller Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:55 PM To: jry...@netscape.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem Jeff: I have a spare. They are not kept in the socket but are loose in abag. Send me your mailing address off list. I leave tomorrowfor a week, so I hope I see your address before I go. William At 04:59 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote: Just completed a large residential grid/gen/solar/battery system using aXW6048 inverter. We are using a SunnyBoy inverter at the array and doing an AC coupledbackfeed. To do this we have installed a heavy duty relay in theoutput of the SunnyBoy, and are using the aux. relay contacts on the XWunit to close this relay when battery voltage is at high limit (during noload power outage to prevent over-charging) Not sure if we lost it during installation, if it shook loose in shipmentand fell out, or was missing to begin with, but to connect to the aux.contacts in th XW requires a very small green flat 5-pin connector whichis missing. I contacted multiple people at Xantrex and their service center, wadedthrough their web site, and finally talked to a service tech. Headvised that "he was looking for an extra one of these connectors 6months ago and still has not received it, as these compoments are madeand assembled in China and they do not stock anything that is consideredan assembly part used in China to build their units." First, I did not realize these inverters were being assembled in China,and second, who ever heard of not stocking a replacement part justbecause its made in China. If that were true, 95% of everythingsold today in US would not be able to order replacement parts. Anybody out their know if there is a Radio Shack type supplier where Ican order a bag of these and get on with the system startup and mylife? Thanks, Jeff Yago _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:[http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/] www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -[http://www.avg.com/] www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2281 - Release Date:08/04/09 05:57:00 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 Fax:805-438-4607 email: will...@millersolar.com [http://millersolar.com/] http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:[http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/] www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:[http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/] www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648
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