The weather cooperated yesterday at 53 degrees and I was able to get out on the Sam for my 10 mile loop but this time I kept it in either the 36/14 combination (66.9") or the 46/18 (66.4") for the trip. Funny but despite the proximity of these two gearings, the 36/14 seemed a little easier from a start/stop, and I think I've found a reasonable target (65-66") for my first set of rings and cogs.
If I go with the White Track Hubset, which is not quick release, I doubt I will be wrenching the hubs to move the chain on a DOS ENO. In that setup I might go with a ENO single freewheel (flip) and add a fixed cog (flop). A crank that really interest me is the IRD Defiant with its classic look and single ring. However, it is a 46t ring / 144 BCD and somewhat limited in choice of ring replacement. IRD recommends a 110mm BB to achieve 42mm chainline, but I wonder about the 46t ring clearance of the chainstay. The 46t ring and 18t freewheel would duplicate the setup noted earlier. On Saturday, March 8, 2014 1:49:51 AM UTC-5, ted wrote: > > White Industries does indeed seem to make great stuff, and since they make > what you want you don't need access to other options and being non standard > shouldn't present any problems for you. The bottom brackets they do seem > interesting too. > Though perhaps not as pretty the MKS urban pedals are a more affordable > option for something sort of similar to the White Industries ones, and of > course there are also the GR9 and gR10. > Strictly speaking the 46-18 on your Sam is not going to be a 69" gear > because the roll out on those 650b wheels isn't going to be 27*pi. But it > should be a very good simulation of what you would experience on the QB > since its also 650B. The only diff would come from the size of the tires > you use. > Good luck with the weather this weekend. > > On Friday, March 7, 2014 7:23:19 PM UTC-8, djbardwil wrote: >> >> Two is too many tees - my apologies. Funny you mention the Sam because I >> did just that after I finished the last post. The Sugino triple on the Sam >> with 170 arms has a 46t top ring and in the 18t cog, 69" is achieved. Not >> being in top shape at the end of winter while riding it in a circle in my >> basement is not the best test environment. Tomorrow we may jump to the 50s >> so we'll give it a whirl on the street! >> >> The White Industries product line seems top notch with great reviews, but >> I hear your concern over proprietary rings. Maybe you pick up an extra, >> once you hone in on size, and add it to the pile of "bike stuff I bought >> that seemed like a good idea at the time". The pedals are pricey but >> intense! >> >> I am lucky to have found the frame and RBWOB to help - bike building >> keeps my sanity in check this time of year. >> >> >> >> On Friday, March 7, 2014 9:02:22 PM UTC-5, ted wrote: >>> >>> I think Tom is in Philadelphia. I (Ted) am out on the west coast. >>> Actually not far from where White Industries is located, and even closer to >>> RBW. >>> Sounds like you are going to have a real White Industries theme going >>> there. Should be really great. Though personally I would avoid the >>> proprietary non standard rings and fixed cogs, I understand many people >>> aren't concerned by that sort of thing. >>> While you are at it their urban pedals are very cool too, and if you are >>> going to experiment with a fixed cog, well some folks think clips and >>> straps are a good idea for that. If you do loose the pedals on a fixed gear >>> that egg beater down there could be hard on your ankles. >>> I think you mentioned having a 48 Sam, (which I believe would also have >>> 650b wheels) so you can get a good idea what gear you want by noticing what >>> you use on your Sam for rolling along in gentle terrain. Like if you have a >>> 48-18 combination available on your Sam, that would be fairly close to what >>> the 42-16 option gives you (~68 and ~67 respectively). >>> It is a lucky man you are to have such a fun project to while away the >>> remains of winter with. >>> >>> On Friday, March 7, 2014 3:54:50 PM UTC-8, djbardwil wrote: >>>> >>>> ted - >>>> Another stunner and you are not too far from me in location - I am in >>>> central NJ about 45 minutes north of Philadelphia. I wondered about the >>>> longevity of those hubs and its good to hear they can go the distance. >>>> >>>> Tom - >>>> Choices are endless and I can see why GP speaks of that as an issue. I >>>> have a bike with 165 and one with 170 but they serve different purposes >>>> and >>>> have a different feel. I do recall seeing a set of 167.5 and would also >>>> consider that - it just seems like I keep splitting the differences. >>>> Chainrings are a perfect example....46t is common, the QB came with >>>> Sugino >>>> 40t / 26t and an 18 tooth cog resulting in a relatively low 39" and 60". >>>> So I honed in on White Industries' 44t or 42t with a DOS ENO 16/18 or >>>> 17/19 to get mid 60"s to 70"...at the moment. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, March 7, 2014 11:34:39 AM UTC-5, ted wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I expect the white hubs are very nice. You will want to be sure you >>>>> get the flip/flop fixed/free version if you are going to use a fw (the >>>>> link >>>>> you gave is for that kind). I expect you noticed that they don't take >>>>> normal fixed cogs like the ones from Soma, EAI, or Surly (including >>>>> surly's >>>>> Dingle), but that is something to think about. Paul also makes high >>>>> flange >>>>> track hubs that look nice, though I think their chain line is slightly >>>>> non >>>>> standard (not that that maters a lot). If you are having your wheels >>>>> built >>>>> the builder may have good advice on hubs to use. >>>>> >>>>> Over the years spacing and terminology have changed a bit. Two or >>>>> three decades back a track bike was a fixed gear with no brakes that you >>>>> rode on a velodrome, and a fixed gear was either a track bike with a >>>>> front >>>>> brake mounted (by drilling the fork crown), or a road bike with a track >>>>> hub >>>>> rear wheel fitted to it. The old school racing schtick included riding >>>>> fixed gear in the winter. Back then I think most bikes had 120 rear >>>>> spacing. Then came 126 for road bikes, then 130 and 135. Track bikes >>>>> stayed >>>>> 120 and I think most fixed gear hubs are still 120. If people are >>>>> starting >>>>> to differentiate "track hubs" from "fixed hubs" based on 120 vs 130 OLD >>>>> they are probably thinking "fixed gear" means adapted road bike (130 >>>>> being >>>>> the typical non touring road bike spacing now). My view is that a fixed >>>>> gear hub is one that has left handed lock ring threads on it for proper >>>>> mounting of fixed cogs, that track hubs are fixed gear hubs, and that >>>>> with >>>>> all hubs you need to pay attention to OLD and your frames spacing. What >>>>> with single sided, flip flop fixed-fixed, flip flop fixed-free, >>>>> proprietary >>>>> fixed cog mounts, and who knows what all OLDs, its a mine field out there. >>>>> >>>>> On the crank front, at the risk of suggesting too many choices I will >>>>> mention that there are 167.5 track cranks in the world. Back in the day >>>>> folks would tell you short cranks are better if you are more of a spinner >>>>> and long cranks were good if you were a masher. I have a 170 track set >>>>> that >>>>> I have had for decades on my Simple One now, and that has always seemed >>>>> fine. When I bought a bike that came with 165s on it that worked great. I >>>>> had 172.5 on my "race bike" but eventually went back to 170 and I think I >>>>> prefer it that way. If I had built my SO up from from scratch with no >>>>> stuff >>>>> on hand I probably would have gone with 165 or 167.5. I think you won't >>>>> know what you like until you try some variations. >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, March 7, 2014 4:26:01 AM UTC-8, djbardwil wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Good call on checking the BB ted and I may go to 170 on the crank for >>>>>> the smidge of leverage gain. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also found this slick new White Industries Track Hubset which would >>>>>> mate well with the DOS ENO: >>>>>> https://www.benscycle.com/p-1524-white-industries-track-hubset-fixfree-32h-120mm.aspx<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.benscycle.com%2Fp-1524-white-industries-track-hubset-fixfree-32h-120mm.aspx&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGthDg6vCqdmZcPcTpFwjdadpBdfQ> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> From what I can tell, it seems that Fixed Gear hubs are >>>>>> differentiated from Track hubs based on rear spacing of 130 vs 120 (the >>>>>> QB >>>>>> span) respectively. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, March 7, 2014 12:33:13 AM UTC-5, ted wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All sounds very nice. >>>>>>> Shorter cranks are traditional track gear. Where 175 may be normal >>>>>>> for mtn bikes and 170 normal for road bikes, 165 is sort of normal for >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> track bike. >>>>>>> With a single ring and normal single speed chain line you shouldn't >>>>>>> have any trouble with clearance between the ring and frame. If you are >>>>>>> using standard geared bike ring and chain, chain line is not really all >>>>>>> that critical. If you do want to get chain line just so, the phil bb >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> its two ended adjustment is real handy. Mounting your chosen crank on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> bb that came in your frame will let you decide what length bb you want >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. Just measure the line you get with the one thats already there, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> adjust accordingly before ordering a new one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 7:20:38 PM UTC-8, djbardwil wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am blocked at work from checking the RBW postings and tonight I >>>>>>>> found I couldn't wait to get home to check - thanks Patrick (dig the >>>>>>>> shirt >>>>>>>> much), ted, Pudge, David and Minh for your perspectives. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And with that, the order by which to choose components and >>>>>>>> considerations seems: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) Crankset - single ring makes sense; modest number of teeth, >>>>>>>> between 40 and 46; I like the Sugino RD and it comes in 165mm arm (I >>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>> short legged being), with choice of 46t or 48t. Many of you have a >>>>>>>> lower # >>>>>>>> of teeth but I need to start somewhere. Not sure of the RD's >>>>>>>> chainline >>>>>>>> (i've seen conflicting 44 or 42) but as close to the rear hub / cog >>>>>>>> chainline as possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) Bottom bracket - my QB came with a 113mm but each crankset has >>>>>>>> its own recommended BB mm. The Sugino RD, with 130 BCD, is coupled >>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>> 103mm BB. If I go with Sugino's recommended 103mm, which is lower >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> Riv's 110mm general recommendation, must I worry about ring clearance >>>>>>>> against the frame? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3) Hubs - Not sure which brand to go with. I saw these on Ben's: >>>>>>>> https://www.benscycle.com/p-3458-milwaukee-bicycle-co-hubset-32h-fixfree.aspx >>>>>>>> They achieve a 42mm chainline and have a classic look without >>>>>>>> breaking the bank, but i am not wedded to these. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4) Rims Velocity Synergy 650b with DT double butted spokes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5) Cog - with a 46t ring, a 17t cog achieves 70". Again - a good >>>>>>>> place to start. I live in an area that is pretty flat with a few >>>>>>>> rolling >>>>>>>> hills but nothing too steep. I really like the WI DOS ENO 2-Speed >>>>>>>> 17/19 >>>>>>>> from a quality and versatility perspective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The fact that, for a lot of you, the QB is your favorite among many >>>>>>>> other great Rivendells (I have a Custom, Atlantis and Sam) is exciting >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> each of mine serves a different purpose and I never get tired of them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you again for your help! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 9:09:06 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.comwrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a WI 17/19 on mine, and really like that option. Gives just >>>>>>>>> enough difference at times. But I rarely go to the 32T front >>>>>>>>> chainring. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J < >>>>>>>>> thomas.a...@skadden.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree with Minh that when you’re on a SS, it changes your >>>>>>>>>> perspective. I just don’t mind walking if the need arises – just >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> pleasant way to get where I’m going. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto: >>>>>>>>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Minh >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 06, 2014 4:50 PM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Mini-Beam >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My QB came with the 40x26, ended up moving it to my SH as i never >>>>>>>>>> bothered shifting to the 26. I now use a single 42, it may depend >>>>>>>>>> on your >>>>>>>>>> terrain, but i can handle hills fine, and those i can't i just get >>>>>>>>>> off and >>>>>>>>>> walk, it's not that big a deal. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> i have a WI Dos FW 17/19, and even that i rarely switch. a >>>>>>>>>> single-speed changes your perspective, it's hard to understand >>>>>>>>>> coming from >>>>>>>>>> a multi-gear bike. i strongly suggest you get the bike rideable as >>>>>>>>>> soon as >>>>>>>>>> possible and see what works for you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> i ride 42/17, i'm not the strongest rider but it works for me! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> also concur with Tom, QB is my favorite bike in the bunch. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:14:40 PM UTC-5, djbardwil wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The more I hear about the fixed gear bicycle experience, the more >>>>>>>>>> it seems that putting on a 2 speed kickback hub is missing the >>>>>>>>>> point. It >>>>>>>>>> seems that dialing in on the gearing is half the fun - it's a bike >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> tinkerers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My QB originally had the Sugino XD Double; does the double >>>>>>>>>> chainring typically get used in both rings or do most just keep it >>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>> larger 40 ring with the 26 ring for the rare occasion? I'm >>>>>>>>>> wondering if a >>>>>>>>>> single crank like the Sugino RD with either a 46 or 48 ring is best. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 12:48:51 PM UTC-5, Esteban wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh, yea. I have a QB too. Had one years ago, too big. This one, >>>>>>>>>> just right. 40x16 free 15 fixed. 68" gets me up almost any hill in >>>>>>>>>> town >>>>>>>>>> (with some zig zag), and I try to spin out on flats for "exercise." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Its a fantastic bike. You'll love it. Everyone should have one :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> San Diego, Calif. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 27, 2014 12:04:36 PM UTC-8, Philip >>>>>>>>>> Williamson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a Quickbeam. I'm obsessed with gearing, and always come >>>>>>>>>> back to about a 72". Currently I'm re-enamored of fixed gear riding, >>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>> single 44t ring, a 15t cog and a 17/21 dingle cog. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do have a Sachs Automatic wheel with a coaster brake, and I >>>>>>>>>> agree that the coaster brake messes up my mojo. I have considered >>>>>>>>>> the S2 >>>>>>>>>> (no C) hub, and will probably build one at some point. The Quickbeam >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> great - I'd ride mine anywhere, in any terrain, on any surface. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Philip >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> www.biketinker.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:42:58 AM UTC-8, djbardwil wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pudge - If I go with the SA 2 speed, it would be without coaster >>>>>>>>>> brake. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Minh - You are right on the argument. Simple and pure is what I >>>>>>>>>> want with this build as well as a new perspective on riding. A >>>>>>>>>> broadening >>>>>>>>>> of horizons.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:37:38 AM UTC-5, Minh wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just a thought, when i got my QB, i also was (unnecessarily) >>>>>>>>>> worried about gearing, additional speeds and now that i've had it i >>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>> both switching in the rear (WI DUO) and switched to a single-ring >>>>>>>>>> front. >>>>>>>>>> if you have the wheels already to get it on the road, you might be >>>>>>>>>> surprised at how fast you adjust to a single gear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> nothing wrong if you really want to mess with the SA 2 speeds, >>>>>>>>>> but there is something pure about a single-speed QB that changes >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> perspective on riding. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:54:23 PM UTC-5, djbardwil >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, I am thrilled to be the very lucky winner of the auction >>>>>>>>>> and admit my addiction to Rivendell. I was a bit surprised that >>>>>>>>>> only one >>>>>>>>>> bid came through but it is a small frame and the dead of winter so >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> audience may have been limited. Apparently, there are only 30 of >>>>>>>>>> these 50 >>>>>>>>>> cm QBs. It should be a great project and I intend to take it slowly >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> thoughtfully as I've never built up a non-derailleur bicycle. >>>>>>>>>> Initial >>>>>>>>>> thought was to possibly try out the Sturmey-Archer 2-speed Kickback >>>>>>>>>> hub as >>>>>>>>>> the basis of a wheel build and possibly a Sturmey-Archer crankset >>>>>>>>>> but I'll >>>>>>>>>> need to do some homework on gearing, spacing, chainline etc. >>>>>>>>>> Nothing is >>>>>>>>>> set in stone at the moment and each component will be a new decision >>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>> but, barring the possible S-A components, it will clearly be a >>>>>>>>>> Rivendell >>>>>>>>>> build when it's done. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I enjoy this group very much and value your input, stories, and >>>>>>>>>> camaraderie. Photos will prove the project is underway! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-own...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> **************************************************** >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we >>>>>>>>>> advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal >>>>>>>>>> tax >>>>>>>>>> advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be >>>>>>>>>> used, >>>>>>>>>> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related >>>>>>>>>> penalties >>>>>>>>>> under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law >>>>>>>>>> provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another >>>>>>>>>> party >>>>>>>>>> any tax-related matters addressed herein. >>>>>>>>>> **************************************************** >>>>>>>>>> **************************************************** >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use >>>>>>>>>> by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged >>>>>>>>>> and/or >>>>>>>>>> confidential information. 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