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On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:07:07 AM UTC-7, HappyCamper wrote:
>
> You can say that every post on this group ever has been splitting hairs. 
> It's part of the fun :)
>
> - Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:03:07 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
> Cyclery wrote:
>>
>> MichaelH illustrates how little difference it makes. Three minutes is his 
>> largest variation in his 18 mile ride on a variety of different tires with 
>> different bikes, and that variation wasn't even reproducible in a second 
>> trial. I spent seven years in grad school doing science, so I can see that 
>> there are confounding factors in Michael's research that muddy the waters. 
>> But his over all consistency from tire to tire and bike to bike suggests 
>> (if not proves) that tire differences play much less role than, say, the 
>> rider's day to day energy level and attitude, wind direction, and countless 
>> other factors. Comparing one lightweight 700x28 tire to another is really 
>> splitting hairs. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:16:05 PM UTC-5, MichaelH wrote:
>>>
>>> Another single data point.
>>>
>>> Along with the post on where the Rambouillet fit in the Riv line up, I 
>>> rode an 18 mile loop from my home on my Ram with a pair of Continental GP4, 
>>> 23 mm tires.  (A gift).  The course has 900 feet of climbing and includes 
>>> 4-5 miles of dirt roads, with the rest equally divided among good pavement, 
>>> bad pavement, and atrocious pavement.  After the ride I recorded my time & 
>>> subjective impressions (painful).  I also discovered a cut  in the sidewall 
>>> of the rear tire, so I decide to replicate the ride with a variety of bikes 
>>> and ties.  I rode it twice on my Ebisu with Jack Browns.  The first ride 
>>> was 3 minutes slower but the second was identical, although a lot more 
>>> comfortable. I rode it once with my Trek & T Serve  (30mm actual).  My time 
>>> was right between the faster and slower rides & the comfort just a nudge 
>>> below the JB.  Now the wind has shifted around from the south to the west ( 
>>> it has been blowing at 20 -25 mph, making this very real world test) and 
>>> the dirt road has been graded, leaving it's surface full of rocks and loose 
>>> sand, so it's really hard going now.  Hard to make comparisons.  I'm in 
>>> Boston for the weekend and heavy rain forecasted for next week so this test 
>>> will be suspended for a while.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure where this leaves me.  I'd like to put the Grand Bois Green 
>>> on my ram but am wondering if the perceived advantage is worth the added 
>>> flats.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:29:48 PM UTC-4, William wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the same boat with Pari-Motos.  I flat almost every ride with 
>>>> Pari-Motos, and almost never with anything else.  I've put them back on 
>>>> with Foss tubes to try again.  I like the ride of them, but the flat 
>>>> record 
>>>> is pretty bad for me.  For me it's been glass.  
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:06 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Prompted by this thread I changed out the Rolly Poly/Ruffy Tuffy 
>>>>> front/rear combo on my road bike wheels to the pair of (what I have 
>>>>> considered to be special event) Grand Bois Cerf 28mm tires. I rode them 
>>>>> for 
>>>>> 25 mountainy miles yesterday and enjoyed their feel immensely. Today I 
>>>>> got 
>>>>> a front goathead flat. This is the 3rd flat I have had on these tires in 
>>>>> about a dozen rides. This is by far the worst flat record of any tire I 
>>>>> have used, ever. I understand I cannot say this will be the flat record 
>>>>> for 
>>>>> me in the future or for you in your environment, but my faith in the tire 
>>>>> is shaken and it affects the enjoyment of my ride. I am putting more 
>>>>> effort 
>>>>> into scanning the road or trying to stay off the dirtier portions of the 
>>>>> road instead of enjoying the view or thinking my deep thoughts. {~; 
>>>>> .
>>>>> When I got home I fixed the flat, pulled the GB Cerfs and replaced 
>>>>> them with the RP/RT combo. As I was changing them, I weighed them on my 
>>>>> Park digital spring scale. To the nearest ounce, the Cerf was 10oz, Rolly 
>>>>> Poly 11oz, Ruffy Tuffy 13oz, Jack Brown Green 33mm was 12-13oz. All of 
>>>>> these tires are made by Panasonic. Now I believe Jan Heine's rollout tire 
>>>>> comparisons are valid. But for me to flat every second or third ride is 
>>>>> just not worth the lower rolling resistance or an ounce or two of 
>>>>> rotating 
>>>>> weight. 
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>

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