If anything, road buzz makes a bike seem slower to me. I guess because I've
always associated noise and vibration with inefficiency.
On Apr 18, 2012, at 13:15, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BUT! Jan's hypothesis that skinny tires feel faster because they
> vibrate more seems to me to be very questionable. Doubtless when,
> after six months, I return to my slightly-sub-18-lb gofast fixie after
> riding the 30+ lb Fargo, the 30- trike and the 25lb errand Riv, and
> find it "fast," this is due to a myriad of factors that cannot, or
> only with more expertise and energy than is worth expending, be
> reduced to scientifically identified causes. But (1) it does *feel*
> faster; (2) it is no slower in concrete-like reality; and (3) all of
> this has absolutely nuthin', repeat nothing, to do with road buzz.
>
> In fact, reducing the question to a crudely empirical estimate of
> crank rpm in the higher gear (75" comp to, respectively, 69", 70" and
> 72"), I *am* going faster. Again, no buzz factor.
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> agreed. Even Jan Heine admits that the perception of speed is far stronger
>> than any measurable speed difference in this hair-splitting area. He rides
>> quality fat tires because he knows empirically that they are no slower at
>> worst and slightly faster at best. He concedes that narrow tires feel
>> faster despite the measurable fact that they are not. I remember that every
>> time I see a post "I rode those tires for a while, but they were sluggish
>> and slow". 19 times out of 20, that's a qualitative judgement, not a
>> quantitative one.
>>
>> I've been tempted to ask Jan since going fast is fun (for the most part),
>> but since going slow is safe (for the most part), shouldn't he run skinny
>> tires, since they feel fast but are slow? I know, I'm a jerk, and a smart
>> aleck.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:03:07 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> MichaelH illustrates how little difference it makes. Three minutes is his
>>> largest variation in his 18 mile ride on a variety of different tires with
>>> different bikes, and that variation wasn't even reproducible in a second
>>> trial. I spent seven years in grad school doing science, so I can see that
>>> there are confounding factors in Michael's research that muddy the waters.
>>> But his over all consistency from tire to tire and bike to bike suggests (if
>>> not proves) that tire differences play much less role than, say, the rider's
>>> day to day energy level and attitude, wind direction, and countless other
>>> factors. Comparing one lightweight 700x28 tire to another is really
>>> splitting hairs.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:16:05 PM UTC-5, MichaelH wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Another single data point.
>>>>
>>>> Along with the post on where the Rambouillet fit in the Riv line up, I
>>>> rode an 18 mile loop from my home on my Ram with a pair of Continental GP4,
>>>> 23 mm tires. (A gift). The course has 900 feet of climbing and includes
>>>> 4-5 miles of dirt roads, with the rest equally divided among good pavement,
>>>> bad pavement, and atrocious pavement. After the ride I recorded my time &
>>>> subjective impressions (painful). I also discovered a cut in the sidewall
>>>> of the rear tire, so I decide to replicate the ride with a variety of bikes
>>>> and ties. I rode it twice on my Ebisu with Jack Browns. The first ride
>>>> was
>>>> 3 minutes slower but the second was identical, although a lot more
>>>> comfortable. I rode it once with my Trek & T Serve (30mm actual). My time
>>>> was right between the faster and slower rides & the comfort just a nudge
>>>> below the JB. Now the wind has shifted around from the south to the west (
>>>> it has been blowing at 20 -25 mph, making this very real world test) and
>>>> the
>>>> dirt road has been graded, leaving it's surface full of rocks and loose
>>>> sand, so it's really hard going now. Hard to make comparisons. I'm in
>>>> Boston for the weekend and heavy rain forecasted for next week so this test
>>>> will be suspended for a while.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure where this leaves me. I'd like to put the Grand Bois Green
>>>> on my ram but am wondering if the perceived advantage is worth the added
>>>> flats.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:29:48 PM UTC-4, William wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the same boat with Pari-Motos. I flat almost every ride with
>>>>> Pari-Motos, and almost never with anything else. I've put them back on
>>>>> with
>>>>> Foss tubes to try again. I like the ride of them, but the flat record is
>>>>> pretty bad for me. For me it's been glass.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:06 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Prompted by this thread I changed out the Rolly Poly/Ruffy Tuffy
>>>>>> front/rear combo on my road bike wheels to the pair of (what I have
>>>>>> considered to be special event) Grand Bois Cerf 28mm tires. I rode them
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> 25 mountainy miles yesterday and enjoyed their feel immensely. Today I
>>>>>> got a
>>>>>> front goathead flat. This is the 3rd flat I have had on these tires in
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> a dozen rides. This is by far the worst flat record of any tire I have
>>>>>> used,
>>>>>> ever. I understand I cannot say this will be the flat record for me in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> future or for you in your environment, but my faith in the tire is shaken
>>>>>> and it affects the enjoyment of my ride. I am putting more effort into
>>>>>> scanning the road or trying to stay off the dirtier portions of the road
>>>>>> instead of enjoying the view or thinking my deep thoughts. {~;
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> When I got home I fixed the flat, pulled the GB Cerfs and replaced them
>>>>>> with the RP/RT combo. As I was changing them, I weighed them on my Park
>>>>>> digital spring scale. To the nearest ounce, the Cerf was 10oz, Rolly
>>>>>> Poly 11oz, Ruffy Tuffy 13oz, Jack Brown Green 33mm was 12-13oz. All of
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> tires are made by Panasonic. Now I believe Jan Heine's rollout tire
>>>>>> comparisons are valid. But for me to flat every second or third ride is
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> not worth the lower rolling resistance or an ounce or two of rotating
>>>>>> weight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/OcFprdpgA48J.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> -------------------------
>
> A billion stars go spinning through the night
> Blazing high above your head;
> But in you is the Presence that will be
> When all the stars are dead.
>
> Ranier Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW
Owners Bunch" group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
