agreed. Even Jan Heine admits that the perception of speed is far stronger
than any measurable speed difference in this hair-splitting area. He rides
quality fat tires because he knows empirically that they are no slower at
worst and slightly faster at best. He concedes that narrow tires feel
faster despite the measurable fact that they are not. I remember that
every time I see a post "I rode those tires for a while, but they were
sluggish and slow". 19 times out of 20, that's a qualitative judgement,
not a quantitative one.
I've been tempted to ask Jan since going fast is fun (for the most part),
but since going slow is safe (for the most part), shouldn't he run skinny
tires, since they feel fast but are slow? I know, I'm a jerk, and a smart
aleck.
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:03:07 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha
Cyclery wrote:
>
> MichaelH illustrates how little difference it makes. Three minutes is his
> largest variation in his 18 mile ride on a variety of different tires with
> different bikes, and that variation wasn't even reproducible in a second
> trial. I spent seven years in grad school doing science, so I can see that
> there are confounding factors in Michael's research that muddy the waters.
> But his over all consistency from tire to tire and bike to bike suggests
> (if not proves) that tire differences play much less role than, say, the
> rider's day to day energy level and attitude, wind direction, and countless
> other factors. Comparing one lightweight 700x28 tire to another is really
> splitting hairs.
>
> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:16:05 PM UTC-5, MichaelH wrote:
>>
>> Another single data point.
>>
>> Along with the post on where the Rambouillet fit in the Riv line up, I
>> rode an 18 mile loop from my home on my Ram with a pair of Continental GP4,
>> 23 mm tires. (A gift). The course has 900 feet of climbing and includes
>> 4-5 miles of dirt roads, with the rest equally divided among good pavement,
>> bad pavement, and atrocious pavement. After the ride I recorded my time &
>> subjective impressions (painful). I also discovered a cut in the sidewall
>> of the rear tire, so I decide to replicate the ride with a variety of bikes
>> and ties. I rode it twice on my Ebisu with Jack Browns. The first ride
>> was 3 minutes slower but the second was identical, although a lot more
>> comfortable. I rode it once with my Trek & T Serve (30mm actual). My time
>> was right between the faster and slower rides & the comfort just a nudge
>> below the JB. Now the wind has shifted around from the south to the west (
>> it has been blowing at 20 -25 mph, making this very real world test) and
>> the dirt road has been graded, leaving it's surface full of rocks and loose
>> sand, so it's really hard going now. Hard to make comparisons. I'm in
>> Boston for the weekend and heavy rain forecasted for next week so this test
>> will be suspended for a while.
>>
>> I'm not sure where this leaves me. I'd like to put the Grand Bois Green
>> on my ram but am wondering if the perceived advantage is worth the added
>> flats.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:29:48 PM UTC-4, William wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in the same boat with Pari-Motos. I flat almost every ride with
>>> Pari-Motos, and almost never with anything else. I've put them back on
>>> with Foss tubes to try again. I like the ride of them, but the flat record
>>> is pretty bad for me. For me it's been glass.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:06 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Prompted by this thread I changed out the Rolly Poly/Ruffy Tuffy
>>>> front/rear combo on my road bike wheels to the pair of (what I have
>>>> considered to be special event) Grand Bois Cerf 28mm tires. I rode them
>>>> for
>>>> 25 mountainy miles yesterday and enjoyed their feel immensely. Today I got
>>>> a front goathead flat. This is the 3rd flat I have had on these tires in
>>>> about a dozen rides. This is by far the worst flat record of any tire I
>>>> have used, ever. I understand I cannot say this will be the flat record
>>>> for
>>>> me in the future or for you in your environment, but my faith in the tire
>>>> is shaken and it affects the enjoyment of my ride. I am putting more
>>>> effort
>>>> into scanning the road or trying to stay off the dirtier portions of the
>>>> road instead of enjoying the view or thinking my deep thoughts. {~;
>>>> .
>>>> When I got home I fixed the flat, pulled the GB Cerfs and replaced them
>>>> with the RP/RT combo. As I was changing them, I weighed them on my Park
>>>> digital spring scale. To the nearest ounce, the Cerf was 10oz, Rolly
>>>> Poly 11oz, Ruffy Tuffy 13oz, Jack Brown Green 33mm was 12-13oz. All of
>>>> these tires are made by Panasonic. Now I believe Jan Heine's rollout tire
>>>> comparisons are valid. But for me to flat every second or third ride is
>>>> just not worth the lower rolling resistance or an ounce or two of rotating
>>>> weight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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