This has been a super interesting conversation and a similar struggle that I've found myself with a slacker seat tube bike!
My general observations seem to be, as the seat tube slackens, I seem to want to hunch forward more. pushing my body forward, making me want to reach much much further. Reading further, I think I may have short femurs. My squats tend to keep me quite upright, which is also a good indicator of femur lengths. The higher my bars go, the further I want to reach. I used some bosco-moose bars and found the 120 to feel ridiculously close. I felt like I could have used a 160mm stem to get them where I would ideally want them. When I push my seat forward the ETT shortened so much it also felt a little short, especially with high bars. I ended up trying the losco with a medium height (approximately bar height) with the seat forward biased, but not slammed. It seemed to get good hip flexor and core engagement, reasonably light upper body engagement, surprisingly so. It reminded me of a Rivendell reader where reach is discussed as the bars go up, the reach shortens literally as well as our physiology (arms lengthen) creating a longer physical reach but making the bike feel shorter. Lowering the bars not only lowers the bars, it also creates a longer reach. Which, makes sense in some situations. For those struggling with the front of the bike feeling disproportionally short, I wonder if lowering the bars to closer to saddle height would bring the arms in closer to the body creating a physical longer reach. That's what seemed to happen for myself, which has been very positive especially in regards to my neck and shoulder injury that is very sensitive. I love chatting bike geometry. One of my favorite builder (WZRD BIKES from victoria) is doing the opposite of rivendell and using downhill inspired geometry working with looooonnng top tubes, slack steering, short stems, and quite steep seat tubes (74-76ish) for hilly climbing for back country adventure riding with rigid frames. I see some merit to this position since I seem to find myself more comfortable in the 73-74* zone. It seems there's many ways to approach fit, and it's great seeing people push fit (comfort, distance, endurance, fun) outside of racing specific tropes which seems very limited. On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 2:53:08 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote: > While the printed specs say 23mm for the Nitto and 24mm for the Kalloy, if > the Kalloy uses a similar head to their other posts it's also considerably > shorter in length than the Nitto.(measure the raid head front to back) What > that means is the Nitto having a longer clamp will feel more solid than a > seapost with a shorter clamp. I recall the difference between a Kalloy head > and a Campy head being something 10mm overall. So while the Kalloy can > thus fit further back giving the effect of more setback, it also > concentrates the stress on the rails to a notably smaller area. It's like > trying to grab a rod with 4 fingers rather than 3, see which one is more > stable from a rocking motion. I won't buy any seatpost with a small clamp > ! > On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 4:11:09 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: > >> Fun fact I discovered during a short window of time when I had a Nitto >> S65, S83 *and *the stock MIT Kalloy that comes on production Rivs: the >> Kalloy has more setback than both Nittos 🤔 >> >> Joe Bernard, Rocket Scientist >> >> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 12:47:06 PM UTC-8 Tim Baldwin wrote: >> >>> Thanks for taking initiative on the 26.8 lugged seatpost Leah! I'll take >>> two! >>> >>> That is one ugly expensive seatpost Garth! >>> >>> What I really want is to be about 1cm back from where an S83 post >>> places me. I'm guessing the majority of the interested folks are in a >>> similar boat. I don't need all the extreme setback of the SR MTE-100 or IRD >>> seatposts but it gets me where I want to be. I would much prefer a fixed >>> two bolt clamp design with the clamp set further back. A 26.8 S84 would do >>> just while also being one of the best looking seatposts around. >>> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 12:55:36 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: >>> >>>> "it's not rocket science" >>>> >>>> It's a 26.8 post but 27.2 at the top and one bolt holds the saddle but >>>> you gotta get it really tight or it'll slip no that's not tight enough you >>>> need grease or Blue Loctite or maybe valve grinding compound also a long >>>> wrench good luck. >>>> >>>> It's rocket science. >>>> >>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 11:13:36 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> >>>>> It *would *be nice to see that S84 in 26.8. Since most Rivs come that >>>>> way now. Hey Grant! >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:26:56 PM UTC-8 Ryan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ugh...that's a drag. I wonder if it's worth contacting IRD? Maybe >>>>>> this is a defect they should address. Or even better maybe Riv has a >>>>>> hack >>>>>> they can suggest. I know they would be happy to help you, Leah. Or the >>>>>> wisdom of ROB? The other nice post with lots of setback and 2 bolts is >>>>>> Paul's Tall and Handsome...but it's not available in 26.8. And, of >>>>>> course, >>>>>> not cheap...north of $200 , say $220? Anyway, somebody, can't remember >>>>>> who, said it's not exactly plug-and-play with seat posts and it looks >>>>>> like >>>>>> they weren't wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway...I do hope for your sake a solution can be found. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 8:51:49 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding >>>>>> Ding! wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ryan, this could be the case. I took the bike out for another 11 >>>>>>> miles tonight. I made sure to put my weight on it on bumps to see if I >>>>>>> could loosen that bolt/clamp. I have a pretty fast mile descent with >>>>>>> lots >>>>>>> of bumps. It did come loose. I periodically jumped off to make minor >>>>>>> adjustments and check the bolt, and often, it was coming loose. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By the time I got home there was a ticking noise in the saddle. I >>>>>>> tightened everything having anything to do with that seat post and >>>>>>> saddle. >>>>>>> I will see what tomorrow brings but it’s not looking good for this seat >>>>>>> post. Which is unfortunate, because I really loved the setback and the >>>>>>> little measurement tool on the side. Great ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At this point I may go back to the annoying stock seat post (which >>>>>>> has a tiny bit more setback than the S83) and maybe get the stem in a >>>>>>> 100. >>>>>>> That’s as long of a reach as they make in that tall stem. Sigh. So sad. >>>>>>> L >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 6:33 PM, Ryan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> you're right about that Joe, of course. If you're running a >>>>>>> saddlebag. If Leah's IRD is loosening and going out of adjustment for >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> good reason....that's ugly..and potentially dangerous. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Google turned up this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1.0 out of 5 stars Heavy, expensive, and it slips... *The clamp >>>>>>> mechanism is poorly designed. It will clamp the saddle securely at the >>>>>>> desired angle, however the clamp mechanism will migrate to the rear of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> setback slot and not hold its position. *This in spite of proper >>>>>>> installation--grease and required torquing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds like this is what Leah talked about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I feel like a 2-bolt design is more robust...and since I am not as >>>>>>> svelte as I would like, I feel more secure with the 2-bolter S83's >>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:16:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The lugged post is lovely and I recommend it for the setback, but >>>>>>>> we all need to remember one thing when deciding if a post is ugly or >>>>>>>> pretty: Most of us put a strap around the dang things and block it >>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>> saddlebag, then our legs do the rest. No one can see the post! 🤣 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 2:55:28 PM UTC-8 Ryan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That bolt? Was wondering that myself. A solution in search of a >>>>>>>>> problem? Leah, that sucks that your seatpost didn't hold your >>>>>>>>> adjustment. >>>>>>>>> I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest because I think >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> custom I bought in 2016 needs a seatpost with more setback; right now >>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>> using the S83. But I feel too far forward with the mixte geometry ; >>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>> like to be butt back and pivoting a little more forward. I don't >>>>>>>>> love that >>>>>>>>> IRD, it's ugly IMO. Maybe the lugged Nitto is the answer. I quickly >>>>>>>>> checked >>>>>>>>> the build list for my mixte...and yes, it's a frame tht takes a 27.2 >>>>>>>>> seatpost. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 3:17:23 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Always be learning, right Joe!" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even after all these decades of fiddling with bikes. It never in >>>>>>>>>> a million years would have occurred to me that a 26.8 post would be >>>>>>>>>> 27.2 at >>>>>>>>>> the top. Or have a screw in it. What IS this contraption??! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:06:25 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> One would think, hey I'll buy another seatpost, plug and play. >>>>>>>>>>> But, no, there are always complications with bike parts. I hope you >>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>> the answer but I have no suggestions although I am following the >>>>>>>>>>> discussion >>>>>>>>>>> to learn. Always be learning, right Joe! >>>>>>>>>>> Doug >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 5:39 AM Nick Payne <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Nitto S84 lugged seatpost has more setback than their >>>>>>>>>>>> aluminium seatposts... >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: 111368887233_691ba91b48_b[1].jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/DDqsLDEcIi4/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7827626e-354a-49c9-a2ab-37b97a43ec10n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7827626e-354a-49c9-a2ab-37b97a43ec10n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/DDqsLDEcIi4/unsubscribe >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ec6b6e31-02a2-4ce4-bac5-f9d09af32a9bn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ec6b6e31-02a2-4ce4-bac5-f9d09af32a9bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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