Le 26/10/16 à 19:27, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
Probably then it's ready to get released for version 5. I will give it a look the next few days, should be able to make the release by the end of the week. Then after that onward for version 6 ;) PBE is doing great with the help of you guys , porting it to 6 should be relative easy.

I know that I was thinking about the next iteration when I rewrote some parts.
So I will print it and browse to see how it feels.


On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 18:44, stepharo <steph...@free.fr <mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:

    Thanks this is cool to hear that.

    BTW do you know if we finished with UPBE or if there is something
    else to do from a conversion stand point?

    I thought I did a final pass.



    Le 26/10/16 à 01:45, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
    Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000
    Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero.
    Not 100 . Not even 10. Not even 1... zero

    PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me ,
    Stef and Damien.

    This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the
    same issue.

    We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book
    from 1.4 to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after
    I was burned out from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE .
    I literally hated Pharo. Fortunately nothing that a bit of a
    small break could not fix.

    I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of
    documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects
    exist is not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that
    but is true. It's contributors that are the life of the project.

    People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like
    Stef keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what
    users want , I rather attract only contributors and zero just
    users. That's enough to keep Pharo evolving for centuries.

    Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said
    than done. I respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion
    because I said what you say years ago. In the end however if you
    and other users are not willing to help we will remain at zero
    commits at least as far as PBE is concerned .

    It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo.
    On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz
    <vitormc...@gmail.com <mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        *Dimitris:*
        *
        *
        I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still
        possible to make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more
        easy. :)

        Also,
        
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/PharoTour/PharoTour.html
        is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of
        PBE ongoing? I am going to take a look at it.

        Ben:

        Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't
        time to read them yet, but I think what I am looking for is
        something like
        
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740

            "The things we see as important might be a paradigm step
            too far for newcomers."


        I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself
        have already tried to show the paradigm shift along with all
        that must be learn to use Pharo, and it didn't went well. It
        is too much to tackle at once. There is the language, the
        environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much...

        Nicolai:

        The first example from the book provides the first experience
        you have on Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the
        default image (it happened to me a long time ago and with a
        friend more recently). It is frustrating and leave the person
        trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site for
        the book has a link to the image that should be used while
        reading the book, but it is not very visible and I think the
        book don't mention it. From the Getting Started chapter I
        count five pages until some code is executed (Time now). The
        problem here is that people usually don't understand, yet,
        the power of the environment, and are eager to see code and
        execute it, and they often get confused with so many
        different things to learn even before the first "Hello
        World". I can say the first time I got PBE I gave up because
        of this, and I only come back later because I persist to
        learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to
        read it too and give up for exactly the same reason.

        I found the book an excellent reference and source to
        solidify the understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a
        tutorial.


        *-------*

        Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first
        thing it puts in your face is a way to execute code and a
        link to a Tour. I don't even have to think much before I have
        executed the Hello World, my hand just moved the mouse to the
        Run button, and even before I noticed I was doing the tour.

        In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef
        (http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly
        through the language aspects, messages types, comparing to
        other OO languages, showing that operator are just messages,
        then that control flow statements are also just messages,
        creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code as
        she goes on.

        After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using
        the image and showing the download link. When the user
        execute Pharo.exe and loads the default image the first thing
        that appears is the Profstef asking if it is the first time
        he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web (if
        it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and
        starts to use his new fresh image). It could explains
        steadily the workspace, the transcript, the nautilus and how
        to make a very simple web application with tests. After that
        it could explain the image, that objects are stored
        (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the
        running program while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It
        could point to a tutorial like
        
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740,
        the PBE and to the many others resources available.

        The order of things could change and maybe I had missed
        something, but that is what I can think now. Perhaps this
        approach is too slow, I don't know, but the fast one isn't
        working for me :( It don't need to be a tour also, but
        something in these lines, like the medium post above but with
        more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea,
        in general, is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has
        by it's quite different, yet powerful, programming model and
        environment. When I talk to people I know that have tried
        Pharo, that is the biggest problem.

        That is just my two cents. :)

        And thanks for all the new links :)

        Regards,
        Vitor

        On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr
        <mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:



            Le 25/10/16 à 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
            PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look
            to start porting it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git
            tag and make release for 5.

            Thanks.
            Yes it would be an immense help.

            Stef



            On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM p...@highoctane.be
            <mailto:p...@highoctane.be> <p...@highoctane.be
            <mailto:p...@highoctane.be>> wrote:

                There was this book (and some others of the same
                ink) that was provided with my first computer:

                
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf
                
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>

                I actually had the french version.
                
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf
                
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29%20%28French%29.pdf>

                This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I
                guess it keeps me connected to my curious young self
                or something like that).

                I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a
                Pharo-based version of it.

                And something like this one for bytecode sets...

                
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf
                
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>

                Phil


                On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via
                Pharo-users <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
                <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:



                    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                    From: Matteo <matte...@yahoo.it
                    <mailto:matte...@yahoo.it>>
                    To: Any question about pharo is welcome
                    <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
                    <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>

                    Cc:
                    Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200
                    Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate
                    Smalltalk Tutorial
                    +1 for PBE
                    It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial.
                    I'm still using it, as a quick reference.

                    On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty
                    <mon...@programmer.net
                    <mailto:mon...@programmer.net>> wrote:

                        +1 for PBE.


                            Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56
                            AM From: "Nicolai Hess"
                            <nicolaih...@gmail.com
                            <mailto:nicolaih...@gmail.com>> To: "Any
                            question about pharo is welcome"
                            <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
                            <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>
                            Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate
                            Smalltalk Tutorial Am 23.10.2016 3:16
                            nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz"
                            <vitormc...@gmail.com
                            
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>[mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com
                            <mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>]>:

                                I think the MOOC is too much for a
                                tutorial. What I miss today is a
                                good written (no videos! Please!)
                                tutorial that teaches just a little
                                of the language and give a few
                                guidelines on how to do simple stuff
                                with the environment, such as a
                                "Hello World!", creating a class,
tests and run stuff.
                            I thought "pharo by example" provides
                            exactly that. What is missing here, from
                            your perspective? I learned a lot from
                            it and it helped me to get started to
                            learn smalltalk, not only the syntax,
                            but also, doing something the smalltalk
                            way.

                                On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM,
                                horrido <horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
                                
<mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>[mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
                                <mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>]>
                                wrote:

                                    Excellent suggestion! I shall
                                    look into it. Thanks. -- View
                                    this message in context:
                                    
http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html[http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html]
                                    Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk
                                    Users mailing list archive at
                                    Nabble.com <http://Nabble.com>.



-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
                    Please excuse my brevity.





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