Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000
Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero.
Not 100 . Not even 10. Not even 1... zero
PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me ,
Stef and Damien.
This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the
same issue.
We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book
from 1.4 to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after
I was burned out from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE .
I literally hated Pharo. Fortunately nothing that a bit of a
small break could not fix.
I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of
documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects
exist is not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that
but is true. It's contributors that are the life of the project.
People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like
Stef keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what
users want , I rather attract only contributors and zero just
users. That's enough to keep Pharo evolving for centuries.
Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said
than done. I respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion
because I said what you say years ago. In the end however if you
and other users are not willing to help we will remain at zero
commits at least as far as PBE is concerned .
It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo.
On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz
<vitormc...@gmail.com <mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
*Dimitris:*
*
*
I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still
possible to make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more
easy. :)
Also,
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/PharoTour/PharoTour.html
is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of
PBE ongoing? I am going to take a look at it.
Ben:
Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't
time to read them yet, but I think what I am looking for is
something like
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740
"The things we see as important might be a paradigm step
too far for newcomers."
I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself
have already tried to show the paradigm shift along with all
that must be learn to use Pharo, and it didn't went well. It
is too much to tackle at once. There is the language, the
environment, the IDE, the paradigm shift, too much...
Nicolai:
The first example from the book provides the first experience
you have on Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the
default image (it happened to me a long time ago and with a
friend more recently). It is frustrating and leave the person
trying to learn suspicious. I see that the current site for
the book has a link to the image that should be used while
reading the book, but it is not very visible and I think the
book don't mention it. From the Getting Started chapter I
count five pages until some code is executed (Time now). The
problem here is that people usually don't understand, yet,
the power of the environment, and are eager to see code and
execute it, and they often get confused with so many
different things to learn even before the first "Hello
World". I can say the first time I got PBE I gave up because
of this, and I only come back later because I persist to
learn Smalltalk, and I know some other people who tried to
read it too and give up for exactly the same reason.
I found the book an excellent reference and source to
solidify the understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a
tutorial.
*-------*
Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first
thing it puts in your face is a way to execute code and a
link to a Tour. I don't even have to think much before I have
executed the Hello World, my hand just moved the mouse to the
Run button, and even before I noticed I was doing the tour.
In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef
(http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly
through the language aspects, messages types, comparing to
other OO languages, showing that operator are just messages,
then that control flow statements are also just messages,
creating classes etc, always letting the user execute code as
she goes on.
After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using
the image and showing the download link. When the user
execute Pharo.exe and loads the default image the first thing
that appears is the Profstef asking if it is the first time
he is there and if he is continuing the tour from the web (if
it is someone used to Pharo, he just closes the windows and
starts to use his new fresh image). It could explains
steadily the workspace, the transcript, the nautilus and how
to make a very simple web application with tests. After that
it could explain the image, that objects are stored
(serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the
running program while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It
could point to a tutorial like
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740,
the PBE and to the many others resources available.
The order of things could change and maybe I had missed
something, but that is what I can think now. Perhaps this
approach is too slow, I don't know, but the fast one isn't
working for me :( It don't need to be a tour also, but
something in these lines, like the medium post above but with
more parts, each describing a little more of Pharo. The idea,
in general, is to easy the entrance barriers that Pharo has
by it's quite different, yet powerful, programming model and
environment. When I talk to people I know that have tried
Pharo, that is the biggest problem.
That is just my two cents. :)
And thanks for all the new links :)
Regards,
Vitor
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr
<mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:
Le 25/10/16 à 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look
to start porting it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git
tag and make release for 5.
Thanks.
Yes it would be an immense help.
Stef
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM p...@highoctane.be
<mailto:p...@highoctane.be> <p...@highoctane.be
<mailto:p...@highoctane.be>> wrote:
There was this book (and some others of the same
ink) that was provided with my first computer:
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>
I actually had the french version.
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29%20%28French%29.pdf>
This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I
guess it keeps me connected to my curious young self
or something like that).
I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a
Pharo-based version of it.
And something like this one for bytecode sets...
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>
Phil
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via
Pharo-users <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matteo <matte...@yahoo.it
<mailto:matte...@yahoo.it>>
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>
Cc:
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate
Smalltalk Tutorial
+1 for PBE
It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial.
I'm still using it, as a quick reference.
On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty
<mon...@programmer.net
<mailto:mon...@programmer.net>> wrote:
+1 for PBE.
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56
AM From: "Nicolai Hess"
<nicolaih...@gmail.com
<mailto:nicolaih...@gmail.com>> To: "Any
question about pharo is welcome"
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate
Smalltalk Tutorial Am 23.10.2016 3:16
nachm. schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz"
<vitormc...@gmail.com
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>[mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>]>:
I think the MOOC is too much for a
tutorial. What I miss today is a
good written (no videos! Please!)
tutorial that teaches just a little
of the language and give a few
guidelines on how to do simple stuff
with the environment, such as a
"Hello World!", creating a class,
tests and run stuff.
I thought "pharo by example" provides
exactly that. What is missing here, from
your perspective? I learned a lot from
it and it helped me to get started to
learn smalltalk, not only the syntax,
but also, doing something the smalltalk
way.
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM,
horrido <horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
<mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>[mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
<mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>]>
wrote:
Excellent suggestion! I shall
look into it. Thanks. -- View
this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html[http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html]
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk
Users mailing list archive at
Nabble.com <http://Nabble.com>.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.
Please excuse my brevity.
