Do you know how many unique views had PBE last 5 months ? 1000
Do you know how many contributions PBE had last 5 months ? Zero. Not
100 . Not even 10. Not even 1... zero
PBE would be still in Pharo version 1.4 if it was not for me , Stef
and Damien.
This is not a Pharo problem, all open source software has the same issue.
We need more people helping, I ported the first 1/3rd of the book from
1.4 to Pharo 4 just by myself and the other two joined after I was
burned out from the pain. I was disgusted working on PBE . I literally
hated Pharo. Fortunately nothing that a bit of a small break could not
fix.
I was and still I am the most loud critic about the state of
documentation. In the end however what makes open source projects
exist is not users. Users are insignificant. Sorry to say that but is
true. It's contributors that are the life of the project.
People like Stef made Pharo and even Squeak possible. People like Stef
keep Smalltalk alive. Personally I don't give a damn what users want ,
I rather attract only contributors and zero just users. That's enough
to keep Pharo evolving for centuries.
Stef says that "Pharo is yours" , apparently this easier said than
done. I respect your opinion, I agree with your opinion because I said
what you say years ago. In the end however if you and other users are
not willing to help we will remain at zero commits at least as far as
PBE is concerned .
It's pretty much the same for the other areas of Pharo.
On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 at 01:26, Vitor Medina Cruz <vitormc...@gmail.com
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
*Dimitris:*
*
*
I agree with much of what you said, but I think it is still
possible to make step 0 and follow the Pharo path with more easy. :)
Also,
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/PharoTour/PharoTour.html
is nice too, I didn't know of it. It is the new version of PBE
ongoing? I am going to take a look at it.
Ben:
Thanks for the links, two of them I didn't know of. I hadn't time
to read them yet, but I think what I am looking for is something
like
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740
"The things we see as important might be a paradigm step too
far for newcomers."
I think the problem for Step 0 it is exactly that. I myself have
already tried to show the paradigm shift along with all that must
be learn to use Pharo, and it didn't went well. It is too much to
tackle at once. There is the language, the environment, the IDE,
the paradigm shift, too much...
Nicolai:
The first example from the book provides the first experience you
have on Pharo, and it uses stuff that is not on the default image
(it happened to me a long time ago and with a friend more
recently). It is frustrating and leave the person trying to learn
suspicious. I see that the current site for the book has a link to
the image that should be used while reading the book, but it is
not very visible and I think the book don't mention it. From the
Getting Started chapter I count five pages until some code is
executed (Time now). The problem here is that people usually don't
understand, yet, the power of the environment, and are eager to
see code and execute it, and they often get confused with so many
different things to learn even before the first "Hello World". I
can say the first time I got PBE I gave up because of this, and I
only come back later because I persist to learn Smalltalk, and I
know some other people who tried to read it too and give up for
exactly the same reason.
I found the book an excellent reference and source to solidify the
understanding of Pharo, but I don't like it as a tutorial.
*-------*
Look at the Go language site: https://golang.org/, the first thing
it puts in your face is a way to execute code and a link to a
Tour. I don't even have to think much before I have executed the
Hello World, my hand just moved the mouse to the Run button, and
even before I noticed I was doing the tour.
In my opinion, a good Step 0 would be something like Profstef
(http://amber-lang.net/learn.html) as a Tour, going slowly through
the language aspects, messages types, comparing to other OO
languages, showing that operator are just messages, then that
control flow statements are also just messages, creating classes
etc, always letting the user execute code as she goes on.
After that, the Tour could tell its user to continue it using the
image and showing the download link. When the user execute
Pharo.exe and loads the default image the first thing that appears
is the Profstef asking if it is the first time he is there and if
he is continuing the tour from the web (if it is someone used to
Pharo, he just closes the windows and starts to use his new fresh
image). It could explains steadily the workspace, the transcript,
the nautilus and how to make a very simple web application with
tests. After that it could explain the image, that objects are
stored (serialized) into it and the image itself consists of the
running program while the Pharo.exe is the VM. In the end It could
point to a tutorial like
https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/reddit-st-in-10-cool-pharo-classes-1b5327ca0740,
the PBE and to the many others resources available.
The order of things could change and maybe I had missed something,
but that is what I can think now. Perhaps this approach is too
slow, I don't know, but the fast one isn't working for me :( It
don't need to be a tour also, but something in these lines, like
the medium post above but with more parts, each describing a
little more of Pharo. The idea, in general, is to easy the
entrance barriers that Pharo has by it's quite different, yet
powerful, programming model and environment. When I talk to people
I know that have tried Pharo, that is the biggest problem.
That is just my two cents. :)
And thanks for all the new links :)
Regards,
Vitor
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:05 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr
<mailto:steph...@free.fr>> wrote:
Le 25/10/16 à 15:05, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
PBE is for Pharo version 5, I will give it another look to
start porting it to Pharo version 6. Will add a git tag and
make release for 5.
Thanks.
Yes it would be an immense help.
Stef
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM p...@highoctane.be
<mailto:p...@highoctane.be> <p...@highoctane.be
<mailto:p...@highoctane.be>> wrote:
There was this book (and some others of the same ink)
that was provided with my first computer:
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20(Tandy).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Getting%20Started%20With%20Extended%20Color%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>
I actually had the french version.
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20(Tandy)%20(French).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Hardware/Color%20Computer%203%20Exended%20Basic%20%28Tandy%29%20%28French%29.pdf>
This thing is still sitting near my desk today (I guess
it keeps me connected to my curious young self or
something like that).
I keep on thinking that it would be great to have a
Pharo-based version of it.
And something like this one for bytecode sets...
http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20(Tandy).pdf
<http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Manuals/Programming/EDTASM+%20With%20ZBUG%20%28Tandy%29.pdf>
Phil
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Matteo via Pharo-users
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matteo <matte...@yahoo.it
<mailto:matte...@yahoo.it>>
To: Any question about pharo is welcome
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>
Cc:
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:08:21 +0200
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate Smalltalk
Tutorial
+1 for PBE
It has been my first smalltalk/Pharo tutorial.
I'm still using it, as a quick reference.
On October 25, 2016 6:25:08 AM GMT+02:00, monty
<mon...@programmer.net
<mailto:mon...@programmer.net>> wrote:
+1 for PBE.
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:56 AM
From: "Nicolai Hess" <nicolaih...@gmail.com
<mailto:nicolaih...@gmail.com>> To: "Any
question about pharo is welcome"
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] The Ultimate
Smalltalk Tutorial Am 23.10.2016 3:16 nachm.
schrieb "Vitor Medina Cruz"
<vitormc...@gmail.com
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>[mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com
<mailto:vitormc...@gmail.com>]>:
I think the MOOC is too much for a
tutorial. What I miss today is a good
written (no videos! Please!) tutorial
that teaches just a little of the
language and give a few guidelines on how
to do simple stuff with the environment,
such as a "Hello World!", creating a
class, tests and run stuff.
I thought "pharo by example" provides exactly
that. What is missing here, from your
perspective? I learned a lot from it and it
helped me to get started to learn smalltalk,
not only the syntax, but also, doing
something the smalltalk way.
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:15 PM, horrido
<horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
<mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>[mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com
<mailto:horrido.hobb...@gmail.com>]> wrote:
Excellent suggestion! I shall look
into it. Thanks. -- View this message
in context:
http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html[http://forum.world.st/The-Ultimate-Smalltalk-Tutorial-tp4918859p4918930.html]
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users
mailing list archive at Nabble.com
<http://Nabble.com>.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please
excuse my brevity.
