Actually, it isn't illegal to copy something from TV or the radio to listen to or watch later. The US Supreme Court ruled that time shifting is covered under fair use. Note that this decision didn't cover creating libraries of material, using it to share with others or making copies.
I agree that there's a distinction between what's wrong and what's illegal, but just because you feel something isn't wrong doesn't mean it isn't illegal. I try to avoid what's right and wrong on these mailing lists and just answer the question of legality. I think each person has to decide what is right and what is wrong for themselves. I agree that RIAA is fighting a losing battle and needs to change their ways. You talk about how much money the music publishers take, and I agree it doesn't seem fair. However, there are musicians who sign with these record companies and they deserve to be paid for their work. Just because they sign with a record company doesn't mean they deserve to have their work stolen. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:17 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I've said it before, but it deserves to be said again. Just because it's illegal does not, under any circumstances, mean it's wrong. It just means that the RIAA and MPAA have been successful in lobbying governments to give them more money. In actuality, if you want to stick with the list of things that aren't likely to be challenged in court, it is still illegal for you to tape something off the radio, or off your TV. Television programs, particularly live broadcasts, make it a point of pointing that out on at least one occasion during the broadcast. Do people still do it? Of course. Will it be challenged? Probably not. Would the MPAA throw every single person who's done it in jail if they thought they had a remote chance of getting away with it? In a heartbeat. Same with the RIAA. Why do you think you're not allowed to bring a video camera into a movie theater? It may only be for personal use, but it's still illegal. And in that case, people have actually been arrested for piracy as a result of it. Heck, Warner Brothers just got finnished suing a talk show because the 30-second clips of music that show played were supposedly not paid for, and the show was effectively branded an advocate of piracy in court. Now, I'm not sure if the suit actually got anywhere, but the point is, it's a 30-second music clip. 30 whole seconds. And the RIAA was up in arms because it wasn't paid for. Keeping in mind that, even had it been paid for, the artists responsible for those clips probably wouldn't see nearly half of the payment anyway. In another instance, a band posted a video of one of its songs on Youtube, hoping that people would take that video, post it on other websites, get more people to watch it, which would translate to more money for them in the long run. The band was Okay Go. Once the RIAA caught wind of it, they forced Youtube to shut down the video. When the video was finally brought back, the ability to post it on any website that wasn't Youtube was removed, and it came with advertisements that delivered a kickback to the RIAA. Shortly thereafter, the band pretty much informed the RIAA where they could put their advertisements. There are a ton and a half more situations like this, where it's not about what's legal but rather about more money for the RIAA and the MPAA. Most of today's musicians probably don't care how their music gets listened to, so long as it translates into more money for them. And, since they make most of their money from performances and other items that aren't necessarily CD's, they're not losing very significant funds if someone decides not to pay the $20 for an album when they only like one song from it. Especially if they're more likely to pay $50 for a concert ticket, most if not all of which goes right into the band's pocket rather than the record lable anyway. -----Original Message----- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 18, 2010 6:18 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing A few points. Copying someone else's CD's is illegal. If someone gives you a CD then that is not illegal. It's my understanding that sometimes special CD's can be distributed to broadcasters with the agreement that they not be redistributed. I obviously have no idea if that's what's going on in this case. Copying something you purchased or owned for your own personal use is not illegal, although there's some grey area here, it's generally assumed that no one will challenge the fair use laws. Making analog copies of material broadcast on TV or radio has always been permitted, but again, this is for your own personal use and not to be redistributed. Obviously, this has become more problematic for publishers with digital broadcasts and copies, although it still seems to be allowed for personal use. Obviously, you're clearly crossing the line by redistributing this material. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:52 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Hello James and others, I was accused by Tom of stealing because I make copies of CD's that my boss orders for his radio station. Sometimes, he orders more CD's then we really need. He lets us pick and choose what we want and take them home with us. I am telling you all right out, that my boss gives us CD's. So if he's giving them to us, then how are we stealing them from him? And precise, everybody has taped music off the radio and movies and other shows off the TV using tape recorders and VCR's. Tom, you're guilty of this too, so you don't really have anything to say about it. There isn't a person on the face of this earth that hasn't done it. People have been doing it for ages, and we are still doing it. The only thing that has changed about it, is the digital recorders have pretty much replaced the analog recorders. This day and age, you can record a song off the radio using your cell phone to do it. People are doing that too as well. I reiterate, my boss gives me the green light to do it. I do ask! But let the truth be told, some of my coworkers will bring in their Zoom and or iPod touch and load them up with music from the mane computer in the control room. And the boss doesn't know they're doing it! Their attitude is, if it's there, then why not help yourself to it? But in and of myself, if I want something, I'll ask for it. If I ask for it, and it is given to me, then I can't be stealing it. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Homuth" <ja...@the-jdh.com> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > Well, then, folks are just going to have to look for alternatives. > Which means more of that stuff you call stealing. Either way, the > government still gets it wrong and BARD only further proves why 20th > century business practices don't work in a 21st century industry. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org > [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] > On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell > Sent: April 18, 2010 11:52 AM > To: PC Audio Discussion List > Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing > > But Bard is funded by Congress, not exactly the most liberal or > understanding of organizations. If they hear from their "constituants" > not > generally us, they'll pull the plug. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Homuth" <ja...@the-jdh.com> > To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM > Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > > >> Sure, if you believe BARD. Unfortunately, they're borrowing talking >> points from the recording industry. And those talking points have >> been debunked 6 ways from Sunday. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:42 AM >> To: PC Audio Discussion List >> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >> >> Actually, the consequences of wide spread piracy from outlets like >> Bard will be the elimination of the service. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "James Homuth" <ja...@the-jdh.com> >> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:36 AM >> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >> >> >>> Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried >>> limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc >>> on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the >>> exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get >>> your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or >>> not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. >>> Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your >>> Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn >>> that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has >>> decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access >>> to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. >>> Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people >>> should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest >>> of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with >>> their acquisitions. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM >>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify >>> for their service by being blind and having a player that they >>> authroize. >>> There >>> is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare >>> type services. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "mitchell" <mitchellgre...@gmail.com> >>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM >>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> >>>> I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use >>>> bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. >>>> Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am >>>> concerned. >>>> Mitchell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>> On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM >>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing." >>>> Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you >>>> download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? >>>> Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and >>>> audio books without having to pay a dime for it. >>>> Explain that one to me, if you can! >>>> John. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom" <t...@pc-audio.org> >>>> To: <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM >>>> Subject: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> >>>>> It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission >>>>> to copy it. >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** >>>>> >High Tom, >>>>> >I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to >>>>> do it. >>>>> >If he says yes, then I do it. >>>>> >But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. 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