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Daniel Ouellet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I find this to be an interesting statement here. I hope I miss > understood it. You totally misunderstood it. > So, you may run OpenBSD, I assume this as you are on > OpenBSD list, so your choice of OS is then based on it's merit for > security most likely, but at the same time, you kind of promote to > use buggy software and fell to justify it access to private data, etc > that it really have no business doing by the fact that it is widely > use and as such you can't run something else? Nope. I neither use Skype, nor do I promote it. It's just that I made the experience that most users use Skype and are unwilling to try something else because all of their friends also use it. Same for Jabber. I really prefer Jabber, but still I have to use the ICQ Gateway since there are too many people who I can't convince to switch over to Jabber. And so this is with Skype. Most users are unwilling to change or too inexperienced to use something else, because it's different from what they know. And I have never said that it's ok to access private data, please stop stating that I have said that, because I clearly haven't. > I find this very disturbing at best? > > So, it's OK to run virus, bad software, compromise stuff because they > are in wide spread and alternative would at the moment less > convenient until others see the light as well and ditch it? Again: I never said it's ok to run it. Some might not have another choice since all their friends use Skype. And if you would have read a little more of my answer, you'd have come to the point where I've recommended not running it outside of a chroot. > No wonder there is so many compromise computers and servers on the > Internet with attitude like that and that it is so hard to fight > against BLOB and required to get good quality and bug free software. You really start to piss me off. I never advertised the use of BLOBs, but sometimes there just isn't an alternative. For example, I'm against BLOBs, but still I use the proprietary NVidia drivers on Linux since I need 3D support. And - again - if you would've read my other reply as well, you'd have seen that I care about security and recommended to run Skype *ONLY* in chroot or vm. > No intention to offend you in anyway really, that's not my point at > all, but honestly I don't get it! Well, then stop implying things I've never said. > The situation at large will only change if you make the choice > knowing to force it to change and simply do not accept it to start > with. It helps a lot if you cancel all your social contacts just to promote alternatives, yes, really. I once tried this with ICQ, I just dropped the account. Well, a few users changed to Jabber, but the majority didn't, and sooner or later I had to get a new ICQ account. > SO, it's ok for anyone at Skype, partners and anyone that compromise > Skype software to have access to all your data, private informations, > motherboard BIOS, etc and know everything you did in the pass and > everything you will do in the future? Where the fuck should I have said this? I never said this, please stop accusing me of having that said. > If that's really the point of convenience you make, may as well run > Windows and have no security setup, but let everything open, at a > minimum, you wouldn't pretend to try to be secure and protect your > privacy, but would knowingly make it public to anyone that care to > see it. Yes, sometimes I have to use windows. And you know what? I even try to keep that as secure as possible, which means that it only has connection to the internet if really necessary and always behind a PF-firewalled gateway. > Again, nothing personal to you or anything like that. It's not my > intention at all and if you take it as such, I sure apologies ahead > of time. You should stop accusing other of having said something which they clearly haven't if you don't want to offend somebody. > My point is this attitude at large that we see way to often. You totally got my attitude wrong. I use free software and open standards wherever I can, but since I have a lot of friends who use ICQ and Skype, I'm forced to use it as well as many of them are unwilling to switch to something else. > As long as this attitude stay and we do not say no to this kind of > practice, it will never stop and trying to built secure OS OpenBSD or > the like, and stop the BLOB is pointless unless users put their > integrity together and will use software, hardware and OS that are > fit together and respect the same goal. Well, the real problem is that "I don't care" attitude many of my friends have. They don't care if ICQ logs messages or if Skype spys. And that's why I'm having so big problems to make them switch to Jabber/SIP and because I don't want to cancel all my social contacts, I use ICQ via the Jabber Gateway and Skype in a VM. > If you run OpenBSD, then I assume may be wrongly, but you want > security, so stay in the path and reject anything else including > hardware that don't provide documentations and BLOB and software that > you can't trust. Yeah, sure, I win a lot if I have a decent 3D card and can't use it just because I don't want to use a BLOB. If I want 3D, I can't have it at all just because there's no BLOB-free driver. Thus, I use the BLOB driver until nouveau gets usable. You have to balance between ideology and use. I don't win anything if I can't use my 3D card at all, but I do win something if I try nouveau and report bugs from time to time, so that I eventually don't need the blob anymore. And I don't win anything if I can't contact my friends anymore, either. To go even further: Some need Skype for their work. You might argue that it's time to change the job then, but finding another isn't that easy these days. > > Pretending to do different is a liar. > > Hope this provide something to think about. > > Best, > > Daniel - -- Jonathan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGVAwUBR1L8Dkab4FbSWhEgAQOo9gv+PSzaDajMb1zyv6iUzAFCRBtCHAfKp2RO Fd2YxCpbinogi+xMehKgZY8pGlAKadhJ41gGS2cubTjZPhxOUcxdfNVRXajtzXuC sSAY/VwUv8UgYurAugtm80G43aA1NZP5+hP5Koim4Z3L6sCEucH8Iie4BmSu9VQK nr7F4yfKlwvmXnhnRazIAhL8VSM+2lNVWc4VuKYABEaPcAAC9F5kf4Wr23fihcoW EvBJg+EF7dpIr95XjsENTlrim54FF/GR2HtORGhYOC3UJzcQ9mNAoBahxgbnjE6q I8AMlC+haFYadOa2LQLxwi5uzZbf2A0YW35bhRUiVRoRnRHWek3dQH3E4xTR/Bfr CV9HhjOsokhrcpW85gScGNU9aiKkBmaeppqaFncOzv4VA6UeoUs69j4wlgBR6rPq bPK59kGfRVz/cfi+ntVTB5tXtpZIBiNpVLEkSeMFVw7Ycl9jplWkHvFHzm9Z5Aii nDsL9K5YJKHswWBV+WgIQsRn0BX/oGdi =S3Y1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
