I sent Ben a long-ish email with some specific information and suggestions. And I say this as someone who does delivery for a living. These types of complaints and “whining time” are wholly inappropriate for mailop.
laura > On 28 Dec 2018, at 10:09, Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com> wrote: > > Hi Michael and others, > > So I did something I usually don't do: I switched to other IPs (the client > has dedicated IPs, we switched to shared ones to send to Outlook.com > <http://outlook.com/>), and while a previous test wasn't conclusive a few > weeks before, this time it worked: messages were delivered in inbox and > stayed there. > That lasted for two weeks, now we're getting the same issue of dest:I, then > moved to Junk after a few seconds. The Support still doesn't answer to this, > but I didn't receive a "ticket is closed thxbye" notification for > SRX1448704980ID so far. > I don't plan to play switching to other IPs again, that's not how we roll and > the fact that a big receiver would "force" a good sender to do so leaves me > speechless. I know it's (probably) not on purpose, but there's apparently a > flaw in the bug reporting process. > > ANYWAY, I didn't came back _solely_ to complain, I also have a new element to > add: I added the sending domain in whitelist of my @outlook.com personal > account. I sent myself a test. Result: dest:I, then moved to junk. > > Apparently I'm not the only one: > https://outlook.uservoice.com/forums/601444/suggestions/34103461 > <https://outlook.uservoice.com/forums/601444/suggestions/34103461> > > Michael, if you have colleagues to poke, I'm of course at your disposal to > provide any relevant data or feedback they'd need. > > Cheers, and happy few last days of 2018! > > -- > Benjamin > > > From: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com > <mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> > Sent: jeudi 6 décembre 2018 20:17 > To: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com <mailto:bbil...@splio.com>>; Al > Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com <mailto:aliver...@aliverson.com>>; mailop > <mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> > Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com <http://outlook.com/> Support (whining time) > > > That sounds like, “TimeTravel”. Hmm. > That’s what we call retroactively moving things to Junk if it looks too much > like a spam campaign in the eyes of the machine. > > I’ll forward this to others who are in a better position to investigate it. > All I can go on, usually, is the Dest:I or J. > > Aloha, > Michael. > -- > Michael J Wise > Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis > "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." > Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool > <http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ? > > From: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com <mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:15 AM > To: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com > <mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>>; Al Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com > <mailto:aliver...@aliverson.com>>; mailop <mailop@mailop.org > <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> > Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com <http://outlook.com/> Support (whining time) > > Hi Michael, > > When you say the wording is very important, do you mean that "please > escalate" isn't correct? I just tried the word "escalation" (I checked, I > didn't use this one exactly yet), we'll see. If there's another wording to > use ... I'd love to know it =) > > The "proof" I have that emails are reaching inbox is that I can reproduce and > see it happening right in front of me. It's in inbox, then disappears after a > few seconds, popping in junk. Headers show dest:I, and not dest:J like other > messages I could find in Junk folder. > > Cheers, > -- > Benjamin > > > From: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com > <mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> > Sent: mardi 4 décembre 2018 21:52 > To: Al Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com <mailto:aliver...@aliverson.com>>; > Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com <mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> > Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> > Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com <http://outlook.com/> Support (whining time) > > > Oops. > Please understand that the wording is VERY important. > The email may in fact be getting to the mailbox SERVER, but there is no > guarantee that it is not in fact being delivered to junk. > > And if that was me, sorry, been crazy busy recovering from Thanksgiving > Madness. > > Aloha, > Michael. > -- > Michael J Wise > Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis > "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." > Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fdetails.aspx%3Fid%3D18275&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832134756&sdata=zNfzyPQ4G49%2FNVVvqTHABlTSf%2Ft30LBHaRPT%2Fht4W%2FQ%3D&reserved=0> > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org <mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> > On Behalf Of Al Iverson > Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:27 AM > To: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com <mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> > Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> > Subject: Re: [mailop] Outlook.com <http://outlook.com/> Support (whining time) > > Hey Benjamin, I am having similar (I think) problems over here where I > request mitigation or feedback regarding junk folder delivery and no matter > what I say, MS sender support says everything is fine, even though the mail > is clearly not going to the inbox. > > I would even be happy to get a response that says "this mail is going to the > junk folder appropriately based on sending reputation" but nothing like that > comes. It is always, "we see no issue and don't understand what you're > asking." I keep asking to escalate as well, to no avail. > > I am wondering if perhaps some filtering at Microsoft could be broken. > I reached out to one Microsoft contact last week, and have gotten no > response. I emailed them again, and a second contact, today but have yet to > hear back. > > Cheers, > Al Iverson > On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 1:04 PM Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com > <mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > > > > > > > It's understood and proven, Outlook.com <http://outlook.com/> can accept > > emails, deliver them to inbox, then move them to Junk folder a few seconds > > later. > > > > This a posteriori moving makes sense to clean users' inboxes from scams, > > phishing or spams that have been spotted a little too late. > > > > > > > > My case (SRX1448704980ID) of course is far from these contexts, and yet I > > couldn't get any sensible answer. The keyword "escalation" seems broken ... > > > > I had other, unrelated cases fixed in a breeze (or two). > > > > > > > > So, I'm keeping the ticket open by asking for news every few days, but I > > just can't stop thinking there's something abnormal here, and I apparently > > can't wave enough for this to be noticed. > > > > I (non-secretly) hope the Microsoft folks in the list would be able to poke > > around internally, but I'm still convinced this is not how this should be > > handled. > > > > > > > > Side notes: > > > > I _did_ see changes in the Support process recently. Now there's a > > templated confirmation email sent, subject lines and some URLs have been > > updated (copy/pasted part are still pointing to > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.live.com%2Fsnds%2FFAQ.aspx&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=GFLyEbpnrZRlEWQLw7a7MHALa2PJ7%2BxHX8QRECkl2yo%3D&reserved=0 > > > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.live.com%2Fsnds%2FFAQ.aspx&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832144764&sdata=FxzF5oCgeErvnzQTLt5K9isc2EkwSw82JLUlE9qc4J4%3D&reserved=0>and > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.msn.com%2Fsnds%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=dQHkuD1d7XcG5CChto%2F20Jaiy%2BH27VWfoxSGtY7AF%2FU%3D&reserved=0 > > > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.msn.com%2Fsnds%2F&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832144764&sdata=STRRl3aud%2B14Rxb3KLRR6fzfwaBmUq%2BfaKzecp%2F6fh8%3D&reserved=0>though), > > so I _know_ there are people working there, and this is greatly > > appreciated. > > Do not put List-unsubscribe URLs in your emails with the Support (when > > providing samples of headers, for instance), as something, somewhere, > > apparently checks what's behind the link. By "clicking" on it. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > -- > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mailop mailing list > > mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchill > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchill> > > i.nosignal.org > > <http://i.nosignal.org/>%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C0 > > 1%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com > > <http://40microsoft.com/>%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C > > 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdat > > a=iDjQxAnbOX4FDqKabyiSx8wv0mrksM3nHGU3rAGSACY%3D&reserved=0 > > > > -- > al iverson // 312-725-0130 // miami > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliverson.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=Tzj6jvR%2BMNW5EsSksrR0itsCZbljG4P1Nh4ghIb%2BQtc%3D&reserved=0 > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliverson.com&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832154773&sdata=rX1ts%2BjGNziMzelaP%2FhhNfiWUyka3EWB7sgPlMlZsEs%3D&reserved=0> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spamresource.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=LMZwrPyYfUEpDJ9v%2FO8s8dgiDkHSUEoXXK%2BkVPJ5%2Bp8%3D&reserved=0 > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spamresource.com&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832164781&sdata=wPuSvxkUlzO8pnsIMiSB67y%2BrfoOPOPGukO8FYymGbQ%3D&reserved=0> > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=iDjQxAnbOX4FDqKabyiSx8wv0mrksM3nHGU3rAGSACY%3D&reserved=0 > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832164781&sdata=Pk93piX7Y6mYrxgJqk%2FAAQj2LxZchdSQgZqLXfutctQ%3D&reserved=0>_______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org <mailto:mailop@mailop.org> > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > <https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop> -- Having an Email Crisis? We can help! 800 823-9674 Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com (650) 437-0741 Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog
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