Hi Michael and others, So I did something I usually don't do: I switched to other IPs (the client has dedicated IPs, we switched to shared ones to send to Outlook.com), and while a previous test wasn't conclusive a few weeks before, this time it worked: messages were delivered in inbox and stayed there. That lasted for two weeks, now we're getting the same issue of dest:I, then moved to Junk after a few seconds. The Support still doesn't answer to this, but I didn't receive a "ticket is closed thxbye" notification for SRX1448704980ID so far. I don't plan to play switching to other IPs again, that's not how we roll and the fact that a big receiver would "force" a good sender to do so leaves me speechless. I know it's (probably) not on purpose, but there's apparently a flaw in the bug reporting process.
ANYWAY, I didn't came back _solely_ to complain, I also have a new element to add: I added the sending domain in whitelist of my @outlook.com personal account. I sent myself a test. Result: dest:I, then moved to junk. Apparently I'm not the only one: https://outlook.uservoice.com/forums/601444/suggestions/34103461 Michael, if you have colleagues to poke, I'm of course at your disposal to provide any relevant data or feedback they'd need. Cheers, and happy few last days of 2018! -- Benjamin From: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com> Sent: jeudi 6 décembre 2018 20:17 To: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com>; Al Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com>; mailop <mailop@mailop.org> Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com Support (whining time) That sounds like, “TimeTravel”. Hmm. That’s what we call retroactively moving things to Junk if it looks too much like a spam campaign in the eyes of the machine. I’ll forward this to others who are in a better position to investigate it. All I can go on, usually, is the Dest:I or J. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ? From: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com<mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:15 AM To: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com<mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>>; Al Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com<mailto:aliver...@aliverson.com>>; mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com Support (whining time) Hi Michael, When you say the wording is very important, do you mean that "please escalate" isn't correct? I just tried the word "escalation" (I checked, I didn't use this one exactly yet), we'll see. If there's another wording to use ... I'd love to know it =) The "proof" I have that emails are reaching inbox is that I can reproduce and see it happening right in front of me. It's in inbox, then disappears after a few seconds, popping in junk. Headers show dest:I, and not dest:J like other messages I could find in Junk folder. Cheers, -- Benjamin From: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com<mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> Sent: mardi 4 décembre 2018 21:52 To: Al Iverson <aliver...@aliverson.com<mailto:aliver...@aliverson.com>>; Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com<mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> Subject: RE: [mailop] Outlook.com Support (whining time) Oops. Please understand that the wording is VERY important. The email may in fact be getting to the mailbox SERVER, but there is no guarantee that it is not in fact being delivered to junk. And if that was me, sorry, been crazy busy recovering from Thanksgiving Madness. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fdetails.aspx%3Fid%3D18275&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832134756&sdata=zNfzyPQ4G49%2FNVVvqTHABlTSf%2Ft30LBHaRPT%2Fht4W%2FQ%3D&reserved=0> ? -----Original Message----- From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org<mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> On Behalf Of Al Iverson Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:27 AM To: Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com<mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>> Subject: Re: [mailop] Outlook.com Support (whining time) Hey Benjamin, I am having similar (I think) problems over here where I request mitigation or feedback regarding junk folder delivery and no matter what I say, MS sender support says everything is fine, even though the mail is clearly not going to the inbox. I would even be happy to get a response that says "this mail is going to the junk folder appropriately based on sending reputation" but nothing like that comes. It is always, "we see no issue and don't understand what you're asking." I keep asking to escalate as well, to no avail. I am wondering if perhaps some filtering at Microsoft could be broken. I reached out to one Microsoft contact last week, and have gotten no response. I emailed them again, and a second contact, today but have yet to hear back. Cheers, Al Iverson On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 1:04 PM Benjamin BILLON <bbil...@splio.com<mailto:bbil...@splio.com>> wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > It's understood and proven, Outlook.com can accept emails, deliver them to > inbox, then move them to Junk folder a few seconds later. > > This a posteriori moving makes sense to clean users' inboxes from scams, > phishing or spams that have been spotted a little too late. > > > > My case (SRX1448704980ID) of course is far from these contexts, and yet I > couldn't get any sensible answer. The keyword "escalation" seems broken ... > > I had other, unrelated cases fixed in a breeze (or two). > > > > So, I'm keeping the ticket open by asking for news every few days, but I just > can't stop thinking there's something abnormal here, and I apparently can't > wave enough for this to be noticed. > > I (non-secretly) hope the Microsoft folks in the list would be able to poke > around internally, but I'm still convinced this is not how this should be > handled. > > > > Side notes: > > I _did_ see changes in the Support process recently. Now there's a templated > confirmation email sent, subject lines and some URLs have been updated > (copy/pasted part are still pointing to > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.live.com%2Fsnds%2FFAQ.aspx&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=GFLyEbpnrZRlEWQLw7a7MHALa2PJ7%2BxHX8QRECkl2yo%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.live.com%2Fsnds%2FFAQ.aspx&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832144764&sdata=FxzF5oCgeErvnzQTLt5K9isc2EkwSw82JLUlE9qc4J4%3D&reserved=0> > and > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.msn.com%2Fsnds%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=dQHkuD1d7XcG5CChto%2F20Jaiy%2BH27VWfoxSGtY7AF%2FU%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpostmaster.msn.com%2Fsnds%2F&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832144764&sdata=STRRl3aud%2B14Rxb3KLRR6fzfwaBmUq%2BfaKzecp%2F6fh8%3D&reserved=0> > though), so I _know_ there are people working there, and this is greatly > appreciated. > Do not put List-unsubscribe URLs in your emails with the Support (when > providing samples of headers, for instance), as something, somewhere, > apparently checks what's behind the link. By "clicking" on it. > > > > Cheers, > > -- > Benjamin > > > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchill > i.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C0 > 1%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C > 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdat > a=iDjQxAnbOX4FDqKabyiSx8wv0mrksM3nHGU3rAGSACY%3D&reserved=0 -- al iverson // 312-725-0130 // miami https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliverson.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=Tzj6jvR%2BMNW5EsSksrR0itsCZbljG4P1Nh4ghIb%2BQtc%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliverson.com&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832154773&sdata=rX1ts%2BjGNziMzelaP%2FhhNfiWUyka3EWB7sgPlMlZsEs%3D&reserved=0> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spamresource.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=LMZwrPyYfUEpDJ9v%2FO8s8dgiDkHSUEoXXK%2BkVPJ5%2Bp8%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spamresource.com&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832164781&sdata=wPuSvxkUlzO8pnsIMiSB67y%2BrfoOPOPGukO8FYymGbQ%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C239bf53035354a07d1bf08d65a1722f1%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636795452753962179&sdata=iDjQxAnbOX4FDqKabyiSx8wv0mrksM3nHGU3rAGSACY%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchilli.nosignal.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailop&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Cc7bcd1fc959549f8cb0708d65b9e4b63%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636797132832164781&sdata=Pk93piX7Y6mYrxgJqk%2FAAQj2LxZchdSQgZqLXfutctQ%3D&reserved=0>
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