Laura, indeed, much of what you say makes a lot of sense to me, and frankly, is why I'm so eager to make the switch.
in terms of iTunes, I think that this is a misconception from years gone by, in the old days, with JAWS 8 and earlier, it was terrible with iTunes, leading to developments such as jTunes,etc.... however, with JAWS 11 there's no such issue, JAWS quickly and very efficiently handles iTunes. using the F6 key I can very quickly jump around it and its stable and reliable. Twitter @neilbarnfather Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Laura M Sent: 11 October 2010 14:24 To: MacVisionaries Subject: Re: Can keyboard only navigation ever be... Ricardo, exactly. iTunes is one of the programs I was thinking about last night, because the efficiency gains are so pronounced. I also really like it on webpages like the New York Times, where articles often have a whole lot of extra links and pictures placed in between the text. Even with JAWS, there was no keystroke that would automatically jump through all of that, but it's only a drag of my finger on the trackpad to bypass it now. Neil, I think you use an iPhone, and the gestures to operate the trackpad are almost exactly the same. You can flick between items, or just touch what you want if you know where it is, and if it's an actionable item you're touching, you just double tap. The rotor also works in the same way as it does on the iPhone, so you could navigate a website using one finger with the trackpad, just as easily as you could with the arrow keys. I know you've just been asking about navigation, and I'm definitely not advocating that you switch if you still feel like VO doesn't cut it for you in that regard, but one of the other things I really like about being on a Mac right now is that because of the iPhone, there's a lot of Voiceover development going on and getting tested even before Mac updates. I really like the way both technologies are merging; there's stuff on the iPhone I recognise from the Mac, and I don't doubt that when 10.7 arrives, some of the new stuff I've seen on the iPhone will have migrated there, just as it did in 10.6. I don't have any axe to grind against JAWS--it gave me access I wouldn't have had for many, many years, but at the moment, VO is the platform that seems to be doing the innovative stuff. There are, of course, disadvantages in picking the newer technology (as I mentioned last night, there's some customisation options I'd really like Voiceover to implement) but the more I use Voiceover, in all its forms, the more I feel that it's getting far closer to really putting us on a level playing field. Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hi Neil, > > Correct. If your in an application or web page and someone gives you the physical placement of an item, you can find it on the track pad which gives you the layout similar to what a sighted person sees on the screen. Just like on the iPhone. This leads me into my comment. I don't think moving your hand from a keyboard to a trackpad to a number pad necessarily makes you slower. For example, If I'm in iTunes and I want to reach an item using JFW I might have to tab 4, 5, maybe 6 times. If I know the layout of iTunes on a Mac, I can just touch that location on my track pad. If your in an environment where you have to work side by side with sighted people this can really clear some communication hurdles. I thought just like you when I first made the switch. "Why do I have to press 4 keys to accomplish the same task the only took 1 finger with Jaws?" And it annoyed me. But then I realized that the number of keys 1 must press doesn't have a direct relationship to speed and or productivity. I also didn't like the concept of interacting with elements. This is before I completely understood it's advantages. Again, I use iTunes as an example. If you have your IOS device hooked up to your windows PC you go to the sources list and arrow down to your device. Same with the Mac. Then, on Windows, you tab and tab and tab. Then when you've reached the button you want like music, you select then tab a whole lot more. On the Mac, I could use the iTem chooser to find music and it takes me right to it. Lets say for some reason I did want to press VO right arrow instead of using the item chooser. Once I've reached music and selected it, I can keep going until I reached the scroll areas that contain the information for the button I've selected. If I don't want to view them I don't have to. You don't have this choice on windows. Your forced to pass every element which takes up time when you know what your looking for. > On Oct 11, 2010, at 3:47 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > > > Laura, > > > > good post, appreciated reading it... > > > > can I ask, you and others have mentioned simply targeting an area of the > > screen, such as in your example where you say top right of a page etc. > > > > how is this achieved? using the touch pad presumably but how? are you > > meaning you drag the mouse up there, or that the touch pad in some way > > represents the screen? > > > > thanks. > > > > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > > > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. 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