I just wanted to agree with both of you here. I am certainly OK with Office, though I haven't used it in a few years because I don't own a windows machine and an outragiously priced screen reader. I achieve the same functionality with my mac, and I hope that eventually, office for the mac will become accessible, but I won't go back to windows, myself unless I am forced to use a PC at work, and, if this is the case, I really hope someone will shell out the price for jaws, or the like. Olivia On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:31 AM, marie Howarth wrote:
> I also want to thank Nick for his lengthy response, you said almost > everything I would have said. I think the confusion lies with the ITunes > lawsuit. Apple did have a few years without accessibility I believe. > Outspoken was discontinued and voice over was brought in and I believe this > was due to a state in the US wanting macs for all of its schools during the > early 2000s. However, there was no solution for visually impaired users and > their was a federal legal issue with the disability discrimination act. Apple > said that although they didn't have anything at that present time, they > assured the government that something was coming. And indeed they did. > > Anyone who thinks Apple will just stop progressing with voice over really > needs their head testing. If it was a pure ploy to quiet the legislation from > suing the company for breaching the DDA, [or whatever it is called in the > US], then they clearly have not followed anything Apple has done since Tiger. > Not only has it kept developing voice over for the mac, but it has introduced > a fully functional built in screen reader on all of its touch devices when it > has been technically possible. The IPod nanos, the IPhone, the touch, shuffle > and now the IPad all have voice over. The fact they not only updated their > operating system last august for mac and implemented "new" features with the > rotor and such, they continually are developing the IPhone OS too. Why would > a company plough not only financial revenue but technical expertise to just > "forget" it later on. It doesn't make sense. > > Every day I hear another person switching to the mac and I honestly feel > relief for that person. the days of turning my computer on and it just > working makes life easier. As I said in another post on this list, while > writing my CV, someone who was helping me from an agency pointed out that I > should be "adequate" in MS office. How? When MS isn't adequate for me as a > user? I get a lot of businesses supposedly use MS but gradually the market > will shift and with more third party developers seeing the potential of the > mac platform, it will be definitely a two horse race. I think its tragic we > live in a world where visually impaired people are expected to use windows, > and expected to use it solely. Granted, some of you need windows for your > jobs and your school stuff, but at this moment I am not forced to retreat to > an operating system that crashed halfway through writing essays or > researching. > > Here in the UK, the university system is slowly seeing the advantage for > students, if they choose to to use a mac. And really, in the vast technology > era we live in, it should be about what makes us as individuals more > productive. And Apple's continual production of voice over and giving us more > features, fixing bugs when we request it, shows how dedicated they are to all > of their users, not just the mainstream market. > > And I just did a very long post lol > > On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> *grins* Sure do. I've got a coffee thermos next to me in my classroom. I'm >> supposed to be diligently taking notes, but really, I'm writing blog posts, >> tweeting, on seven messaging accounts, and browsing the web while taking >> notes. >> >> That said, James has a point here. NFB did retract their statement, although >> their statement still was really bias. It said they wanted to open it up for >> dialog, yet they continue to trash Apple in the same post. >> >> It just saddens me why this has to happen. I love what Apple has done, and I >> know they'll keep it up. I've never sent so many text messages from my >> iPhone, never enjoyed a computer this much as a Mac, and had this much fun. >> That's because I don't have to worry about any third-party installed screen >> reading access software crashing, not starting up, giving me script errors, >> and so-on. >> >> I've really found the accessibility team, regardless of my issue, extremely >> responsive. The longest time I have waited for a reply to either a >> suggestion, comment or issue is a full day. Not longer than that. They've >> replied to all my e-mails except one, and I have sent quite a few of them. >> But despite that, the feature I asked for was implemented. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Cody wrote: >> >>> Is laughing >>> >>> We got early morning coffee drinkers I see, this list is really jumpin >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" <rmlambert1...@gmail.com> >>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:27 AM >>> Subject: Re: What do you think? >>> >>> >>>> I saw they did and was surprised, and happy, to see that. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:22 AM, "James & Nash" >>>> <james.austin1...@googlemail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Although i've already posted on this, I just wanted to add that despite >>>>> the criticism that has been levelled at NFB - and rightly, they have >>>>> commended Apple's commitment to accesibility on the IPad. >>>>> TC >>>>> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >>>>> On 15 Apr 2010, at 09:16, Rob wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your input, Nic. Much appreciated. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Charlie Doremus <giantdolp...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I would also like to thank you, Nic, for saving my bacon. Like Anne I >>>>>>> was going to take issue with NFB and others who love to gripe for the >>>>>>> sake of griping. You saved me from being called tactless twice in the >>>>>>> same week. Even though I don't use Jaws the idea of uninstall, >>>>>>> install, uninstall, install, no matter what program, gives me the >>>>>>> creeps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from the iPad I wish I had >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Nic, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for this post. You've just saved me from going on a major >>>>>>>> rant along the same lines. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anne >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I seriously doubt that is the case. Apple accessibility has been >>>>>>>>> around for six years now, not three. I doubt NFB had anything to do >>>>>>>>> with it. Apple is going to keep it up because they are committed. >>>>>>>>> The article about the lawsuit doesn't actually mention Apple much. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is actually a very good point of view. Apple poses a threat to >>>>>>>>> the NFB of taking over the technical market. This is why NFB did not >>>>>>>>> sue Skype, but Apple. Agreement or not, I'm pretty sure they >>>>>>>>> listened to users using Outspoken and such, rather than an >>>>>>>>> organization that can't even review the product properly when it is >>>>>>>>> out. Apple has done far more than anyone for accessibility >>>>>>>>> improvements. Apple said they had something in store, and they sure >>>>>>>>> did. I of course realize that it is a pretty serious statement. Of >>>>>>>>> course, I am not particularly a fan of the NFB at all. Saying that, >>>>>>>>> NFB has made some seriously inaccurate statements as well, far >>>>>>>>> outweighing mine. NFB actually has no reason to sue Apple. What >>>>>>>>> would they sue them for, exactly? Because their products are >>>>>>>>> accessible, and they want everyone to pay more than what a Macbook >>>>>>>>> costs for assistive technology? That wouldn't actually surprise me >>>>>>>>> much. It's all about competition. If they think they're about to be >>>>>>>>> kicked out, of course they would consider Apple a threat. Because >>>>>>>>> Apple has done something Microsoft has not. All these things sound >>>>>>>>> really twisted and disgusting to me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apple can hardly be sued for their effort. Their lawsuit had to do >>>>>>>>> with iTunes on the Windows side. Fair enough, but that is a pretty >>>>>>>>> ridiculous suit if it really is based on accessibility. That is not >>>>>>>>> the case, however, as there are plenty of other useful programs for >>>>>>>>> PCs that are not anywhere near as accessible as iTunes 9. And NFB >>>>>>>>> doesn't care about that. Which, again, leads me to believe that, >>>>>>>>> because NFB is scared of being kicked out, they do everything they >>>>>>>>> can to stop people buying their product. That would make sense. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Windows users rely on scripts all the time to use any application. I >>>>>>>>> suggest you look through your jAWS folder to see what I mean. Have >>>>>>>>> you even seen just the download size of a JAWS installation? It's >>>>>>>>> outrageous. People who moan about iTunes not being accessible just >>>>>>>>> because the interface accidentally broke, just need to use scripts >>>>>>>>> like they do for everything else. I'm surprised that wasn't their >>>>>>>>> first complaint. JAWS, or just Windows in general, isn't even that >>>>>>>>> stable. If JAWS crashes, it's stupidly difficult most of the time to >>>>>>>>> reload the product. Even if you manage to do so, you will probably >>>>>>>>> run into the screen not being read correctly when reading list boxes >>>>>>>>> or with the cursor. Or, the worst-case scenario. You have to >>>>>>>>> uninstall JAWS 11 after attempting to install Video Intercept, >>>>>>>>> reinstall JAWS 10, install VIdeo Intercept, uninstall JAWS 10 then >>>>>>>>> reinstall JAWS 11. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm slamming the NFB a bit, but really, they need a kick in >>>>>>>>> the ass. I'm just happy the Danish blindness organizations are not >>>>>>>>> this corrupt and twisted, and they actually review fairly and take a >>>>>>>>> proper look at what a company offers before suing them. I'll always >>>>>>>>> be negative about the NFB, though I am actually being neutral when >>>>>>>>> talking about the actual lawsuit itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Say what you want to, it won't change my mind. Even if it is someone >>>>>>>>> from NFB saying it. Some NFB people are great. Some do incredibly >>>>>>>>> good reviews. Some don't. And in whole, I think the organization >>>>>>>>> just sucks for filing unnecessary lawsuits for nothing. Maybe I'm >>>>>>>>> going on a childish tantrum here, perhaps. But once in a while, you >>>>>>>>> need to. A company is trying to provide great accessibility for >>>>>>>>> their products, and they are sued because of one problem. iTunes is >>>>>>>>> actually still useful on the Windows side, people. Quit your darn >>>>>>>>> nitpicking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Nic >>>>>>>>> Skype: Kvalme >>>>>>>>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >>>>>>>>> AIM: cincinster >>>>>>>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>>>>>>>> Facebook Profile >>>>>>>>> My Twitter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2010, at 8:08 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just got wind, from a friend of mine, that the only reason Apple >>>>>>>>>> is accessible to us is because of a lawsuit by the NFB. The term of >>>>>>>>>> the agreement was for accessibility improvements for three years. >>>>>>>>>> Here's a question. First, what's your side of this ordeal? Second, >>>>>>>>>> who thinks Apple will keep up with the accessibility improvements >>>>>>>>>> after this three year term is up? I apologize for making smooth >>>>>>>>>> waters mirky, I just wanted to know what your take on this was. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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