Yeah I must admit I look at my keyboard when I’m typing but then I can look at themonitor as well either way I can’t see anything
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John JD Denning Sent: Sunday, 18 September 2016 1:30 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes I do, and have always done the same thing. I used to be a photographer and darkroom technician for the city of San Jose Police Department. I could be working with film in total darkness. And I'd be staring right at what I'm doing. Even though I knew I was doing it I couldn't not do it. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 17, 2016, at 09:27, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: You know, it's a funny thing. I have some vision, but not enough to read large print or anything like that. I can see colors, identify objects, stuff like that. But even though I can see little more than the lighting and some colors on my phone screen, I always look at my phone when I'm using it. It occurred to me once that that was kind of silly, so I tried looking away. It felt very odd, and I was unable to keep it up without thinking about it. Now you all have me curious about whether I can draw a straight line. I'm guessing probably not, but I'm going to have to try. lol Cheers, Donna On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:14 AM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net<mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote: David, as I understand it this is a very profound brain issue in the different ways we process things with out vision. People who lose vision early have much more difficulty with spacial issues and understanding physical space and direction than folks who had vision later or still do. On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:43 PM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: It was a sighted person who pointed this out to me. When a person has vision, they use the vision to direct where they are touching. For those without vision, and who have never had vision, things are significantly different. First, it is much more difficult to move in a straight line. In fact, it is almost impossible to do so. Second, without vision, people's movements are considerably larger. The first time I attempted to use a mouse was with a sighted friend. He said he would tell me when to stop. I moved the mouse what I believed was a small amount. And, the mouse pointer disappeared from the screen. After the third try, he put his hand over mine and used my hand to move the mouse. It took several attempts before I was able to feel the tiny movements. In point of fact, this is the largest complaint blind people have when they are first learning to explore the screen. I tell people to move your finger as though you haven't really moved it. So yes, your usable vision makes absolutely all the difference. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 17/09/2016, at 14:39, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote: I have been using threading in iOS for sometime, mostly because I get a tremendous amount of list mail, and I do tend to delete entire thread depending on the subject line and the list. It's so much faster to delete a list of 10 or 11 messages that you know you don't care about because of the subject line. The problem I have with the new system is that once you are into messages, and you're moving from one to the next hitting delete, all of a sudden you go to delete something and it says trash messages. So you have moved into a thread which you didn't know about. So now you can't trash all the messages. Then you have to go back and see what is there. It's just not fluid in that respect. I guess nothings perfect. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: Hi David, The thing that has kept me from adopting threaded view is that even within a thread I'll see a message from someone who I know writes good posts, and I'll decide to read it. So, while on the one hand it seems like a very efficient way to organize mail, I think I would miss out on some messages that I end up reading and appreciating. Cheers, Donna On Sep 16, 2016, at 6:05 PM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: I, on the other hand, love threaded mail, now that I have figured out how it works. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 17/09/2016, at 09:41, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: I'm liking IOS 10, as well, though I don't use threaded view in Mail. Cheers, Donna On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote: Personally I think this is probly one of the most stable IOS updates I have seen. I haven’t found any of the issues with mail others are reporting. Although I wasn’t able to move a couple of emails from one in box to another location in a second mail account, but hell it’s not a big issue, Reporting the issues to apple goes along way to getting things corrected quickly and they do appreciate it. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016 11:35 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes You know what would be nice too, is if we were less anal about the public beta and discussed these major changes openly so people aren’t surprised. The Cheree’s of the world could elect not to update for example until a satisfactory alternative presents itself or not update at all putting the control in their hands instead of jumping in with out all the facts to make an informed decision. It would also be nice if Apple could unbundle the security updates from the OS updates so again folks not wanting to update could apply security patches and stay safe with out introducing new features. That might undo some of the apple advantage though but I’m definitely not against putting more choice in to the hands of the end user. On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:13 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think where Apple could do better would be in releasing some documentation regarding how voiceover users are supposed to deal with things that have substantially changed. I don't agree that things have to stay the same. And David's discussion of how to deal with the email was very good. I think that Apple should do that. I also think that Apple should update their documentation on commands, Bluetooth, braille display etc. One of the things about making a commitment to accessibility is to realize that for people who can. See, dealing with the changes to the interface may be a lot easier then for people who can't. That's why they need to employ people who get that, since your average designer doesn't. There are a lot of things that become immediately clear decided people because they can take in the entire interface at once and understand how to deal with it. That's not so easy if you can't do that. Mary Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:47 PM, Cheree Heppe <che...@dogsc4me.com<mailto:che...@dogsc4me.com>> wrote: That's nonsense. I pay exactly the same amount for my Apple products as anyone else. Apple claims universal design. When design changes or functional alterations lose the way, that isn't about somebody pays more, that's about somebody misunderstanding universal design. Luckily, not all sighted people think as you and some others have quoted, or the disabled and blind would still be sitting by coal scuttles and weaving baskets to the tune of you are a minority and don't count. Drop the doctored rehab drivel and embrace universal design, not change for its own sake. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:40, michael babcock <michael.babcoc...@gmail.com<mailto:michael.babcoc...@gmail.com>> wrote: Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone. All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means nothing honestly. Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone business and the people who do like there products and services obviously pay more. What is a Mac in most cases? A PC… A Personal Computer … But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will continue paying for them. I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there updates, and just had to say, so what… Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc. #choices. And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He didn’t know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released helped me a lot. Thanks for reading my rant. Best. On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com<mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>> wrote: Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself. Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called Applevis. How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it sure outruns Windows. >From E.T.'s Keyboard... Are We Alone in the Universe? ancient.ali...@icloud.com<mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote: It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, namely OS. If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS. The iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted. Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users. If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative. This mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make simpler, to add features. My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion. No release notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or easily usable. It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs. It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round. Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements. There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good. I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing something that could and did change the world for us. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote: Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail. When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen. If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used to this new system. I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com><mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com<mailto:philh...@gmail.com> <mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote: message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. 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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
