Hello, I haven’t been following this thread but I’m sure the terminal commands work. So move VO to the end simply press ctrl + e you can use ctrl + a for the beginning etc. Just tried it then used VO left arrow to read the file extension then again to read filename.
Regards. Gena > On 18 Feb 2015, at 14:46, Dionipher Presas Herrera <dionip...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > i sorry to interrupt you with this topic, i just wonder how you could edit > the terminal, since i posted some commands there for viewing hidden folders > and pasted again a command to hide the folders back. > On 17 Feb 2015, at 09:37 am, Barry Hadder <bhad...@gmail.com > <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> Sean, >> >> I believe we were on the same page. I don’t think that you read my entire >> post however. I refer to this: >> >> As far as reviewing output written to the console, you can move vo to the >> line above the one you want to review than vo-right will put you at the >> beginning of the line in question. You can then review it with >> vo-right/left or vo-shift-right/left. >> >> I didn’t know exactly what you were talking about so I just covered all of >> the bases. >> When you move vo up a line in the console, it is all ready at the end of the >> line because it scanned through it real quick so it could read it back. All >> you have to do to read the file is vo-left. So, I’m not understanding way >> you feel you need an end of line command for vo. I should also point out >> that it might be more productive to pipe ls through less and hitting / to >> search for a particular file if there are hundreds. >> Your wording was to the affect that one could not move vo to the beginning >> or end of a line. That was not correct. I think that more care should be >> taken when reporting problems to Apple. If you feel that the method I >> suggested above to move to the beginning is not workable, than we are just >> going to have to disagree and I’m not interested in arguing over that. Yu >> have to decide what system you feel more comfortable and productive with. >> If you are saying that you feel that Voiceover should have a command to move >> to the ends of the line, then that is your opinion. I personally think that >> is a silly standard but that’s find to report to Apple as far as I’m >> concerned as that is very different than claiming that vo can’t move to the >> ends of the lines. However, Voiceover doesn’t work under that premise. >> >> On Feb 16, 2015, at 11:30 PM, Sean Murphy <mhysnm1...@gmail.com >> <mailto:mhysnm1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Barry, >> >> I agree we are not on the same page. Below are the steps to reproduce the >> issue I have outlined. >> >> 1. Open terminal and interact with the text area of the terminal. >> 2. Issue a ls -l on a directory with a lot of files/directories. Lets say >> over 25 files. >> 3. Now use vo-up arrow to move up the screen. Keep going for at least 5 to 6 >> lines. >> 7. You want to go to the end of the line so you can read out the file name. >> There is no keystroke to do this. Since VO cannot move you to the end of the >> current line. You have to either move by word towards the right or move down >> the line and move left by word. >> >> When I refer to the history buffer, I was not referring to the command >> history buffer. But the history of the previous information being displayed. >> Only way to review this information is via the VO cursor. I review a lot of >> log outputs from devices that I connect to via the terminal. Thus the >> information scrolls off the screen and you can use the VO cursor to move to >> the beginning of a output that shows over 100 lines of info. It would be >> really nice if you could jump to the beginning and end of the current line >> that you are currently reviewing when you have moved up the screen using the >> VO cursor. You do not want to move the insert cursor when you do this. It is >> like a pre-view of past displayed information. >> >> >> >> >>> On 16 Feb 2015, at 10:16 am, Barry Hadder <bhad...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Sean, >>> >>> I’m not sure what you’re having trouble with here. It appears that we are >>> not communicating. >>> As I pointed out, the vo cursor tracks with the insertion point. >>> There is no specific vo command to move vo to the beginning of a line. You >>> move the insertion point and if vo doesn’t track, then you rout vo to it. >>> I explained how to read the output console where there isn’t an insertion >>> point. It will put vo at the beginning of a line for review. >>> >>> You scrole through the command history buffer with up and doun arrows. >>> >>> On Feb 15, 2015, at 4:31 PM, Sean Murphy <mhysnm1...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:mhysnm1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Barry >>> >>> I am not talking about moving the insert cursor rather the Voice-Over >>> cursor to the beginning of the line. CTRL A and like commands only move the >>> insert cursor there is no command to move the Voice-Over cursor to the >>> beginning of the line when you are reveiwing the history buffer. >>> >>> My experience is the part >>> >>> On 16 Feb 2015, at 2:33 am, Barry Hadder <bhad...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> What do you mean by saying you can’t move to the beginning of a line in >>>> terminal? >>>> On the command line or in a text editor such as emacs , do the following: >>>> control-a moves the insertion to the beginning of a line and Voiceover >>>> tracks. >>>> control-e moves to the end of a line. >>>> option-f move forward a word. >>>> option-b moves backwards a word. >>>> Note that you need to go into terminal options/profiles/keyboard and make >>>> sure the use option as meta key is checked to some of those commands to >>>> work. >>>> >>>> As far as reviewing output written to the console, you can move vo to the >>>> line above the one you want to review than vo-right will put you at the >>>> begining of the line in question. You can then review it with >>>> vo-right/left or vo-shift-right/left. >>>> >>>> On Feb 15, 2015, at 12:21 AM, Sean Murphy <mhysnm1...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:mhysnm1...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> David and all, >>>> >>>> I agree with your approach. As a user of technology for over 30 years now. >>>> There is no one solution. If you lock yourself into one solution, then you >>>> will find down the track at some time your lack of knowledge and expertise >>>> has left you behind requiring a major re-learning. >>>> >>>> Is the Mac platform without problems? No. Is it apples fault or the >>>> vendors fault. Both. If the product has lack of accessibility and comes >>>> from the Vendor like Microsoft. Then the issue lies in their court. But if >>>> there is features that could make your life easier on the Mac platform >>>> then that lies in apples court. Some areas of improvement I would like to >>>> see and have send to accessi...@apple.com <mailto:accessi...@apple.com> >>>> are: >>>> >>>> Improved access to terminal. As yet, you cannot move to the beginning of a >>>> line in Terminal. You can go to the top of the window, to the first line >>>> of the visible text, but not to the beginning of the line you are >>>> reviewing with VO. This feature would be very useful when reviewing >>>> information in any program. >>>> >>>> The challenge with bugs that are reported is how Apple rank them to be >>>> fixed. I do not know how much weighting they give to Voice-Over style >>>> bugs. The other challenge is the period between fixes. If a bug is >>>> reported and verified on the Mac Platform. It could take years before it >>>> is fixed. While bugs on Windows screen readers do take a lot shorter >>>> period of time to get fix. some bugs on both platforms never get fixed >>>> because they might not be able to validate the bug, to complex, breaks to >>>> many other features, Product management slates more important features to >>>> be address and the poor old developer hasn’t got time to address the bug, >>>> etc. this is the nature of the beast when using a major main stream vendor >>>> vs small vendors. Normally small vendors are faster to respond to issues >>>> then larger because of their internal processes and competing other >>>> priorities in the organisation. >>>> >>>> On the iPhone I will admit 8.xx version of iOS is the worst release I have >>>> seen from Apple. crashes of Voice-Over, Voice-over being stuck on elements >>>> within Audible and other programs, Voice-over not responding to taps, When >>>> swiping through a app VO jus to different areas of the app, not the next >>>> item and so on. Everything I have outlined here has not been seen in 7.xx >>>> and it is just to much hassle to role back. I have reported some of the >>>> issues I have found and the response from apple was not very encouraging. >>>> EG: We have forwarded your issue on to the product owner. That means >>>> nothing and far as I am concern they have passed on the buck to someone >>>> else and the issue has gone into a black hole. Their customer management >>>> could improve greatly. Then I am a customer of them and a small one at >>>> that. Thus if I walk, it doesn’t hurt them. this is the problem when a >>>> company is the favour of the year and is growing like apple. Microsoft >>>> and other large companies when they were on the up swing of market growth >>>> went through the same problems. So it isn’t anything new what I have >>>> outlined. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 13 Feb 2015, at 11:31 am, David Griffith <daj.griff...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I too must confess that I am not a braille user on the Mac so cannot >>>>> comment on how frustrating this is. however there do seem to be a lot of >>>>> people using Braille happily on the MacVisionaries list so perhaps there >>>>> is some expertise you can tap into there to get support. Apart from that >>>>> I agree with all >>>>> Barry has said. I also agree that there are areas that the experience on >>>>> the Mac can improve but equally I could compile a much longer list of >>>>> complaints / disappointments with Windows and the various Screenreaders >>>>> and Windows OS problems. . . Only today I was experiencing the >>>>> frustration of Jaw’s inability to accurately copy and paste text to and >>>>> from ,html content. This is a long standing annoyance at what should be >>>>> a basic function which has existed for me since Jaws 14 and shows no sign >>>>> of being resolved in 16. >>>>> I can work around it by using NVDA but this and other deficiencies >>>>> definitely exist on Windows. I still prefer the Mac overwhelmingly for >>>>> many functions, including web browsing. >>>>> The Mac also provides for free a voice dictation and command interface >>>>> which for me personally outperforms anything I have bought on the >>>>> Windows platform, including Dragon Naturally Speaking. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that there is a problem with the implementation of advance Office >>>>> support on the Mac. However this is to a large extent about the lack of >>>>> depth in the compilation of strategies compared to the information, >>>>> tutorials and guides available on the Windows side. Apple has relatively >>>>> little interest in promoting Microsoft Office and will pay lip service >>>>> only to supporting this format in many cases. This is understandable >>>>> given the competing nature of their suites. >>>>> Hopefully there is a lot to look forward to when the allegedly fully >>>>> Voiceover accessible version of Microsoft Office is released later this >>>>> year. >>>>> >>>>> I am in the fortunate position of having access to Mac and Windows. For >>>>> some things only Windows will do. For example Safari seems to fall over >>>>> with my bank web site. Equally there are things I will always if given a >>>>> preference will do on the Mac side. In general for me as long as it >>>>> works, I prefer doing things on the Mac now. >>>>> >>>>> However I want to advance my capability on all platforms. I try to learn >>>>> as much as I can about not just Windows and Mac OS, but also iOS and >>>>> Android. Unfortunately I have never been able to get a Linux/vinux >>>>> environment working properly otherwise I would be delving into that as >>>>> well. Some might see this as a geeky approach but my view in the >>>>> struggle to overcome visual impairment we should, if we can afford it, >>>>> utilise every useful option open to us. >>>>> >>>>> In the spectrum of options available I think both MacOs and iOS have >>>>> defensible and honourable records. >>>>> >>>>> David Griffith >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 12 Feb 2015, at 23:29, Barry Hadder <bhad...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, as I don’t use braille, I will not comment to much on that except >>>>>> just to say that I think it’s a little odd to seemingly not egknolege >>>>>> the significance of an off the shelf system with braille support out of >>>>>> the box and not find away to make good use of it. >>>>>> With that said, there are some problems with some of your assertions >>>>>> that I feel need to be addrest since nobody else has done so yet. I >>>>>> Also should point out that it is unclear to me at times whether or not >>>>>> your points are in reference to braille or speech. So, there may be >>>>>> some occasional misunderstanding on my part. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Third party icons on the status bar are accessible with Voiceover. >>>>>> Specifically the Dropbox app. Any problems that may occur will be more >>>>>> to due with the third party developer rather than Apple. I don’t >>>>>> understand why you said they can’t be accessed with Voiceover. >>>>>> 2. The idea that there should be some kind of constant indicator that >>>>>> quicknav is turned on is your opinion. It is not an accessibility >>>>>> issue. This could be classified as a feature request however. >>>>>> 3. What do you mean by network stations? I have no idea what button in >>>>>> finder that you are referring to that connects to all available network >>>>>> shares at once. I know of no such button nor have I found any reference >>>>>> to this function in the help documentation. Finding and connecting to >>>>>> network shares in finder is quite easy to do with voiceover and if you >>>>>> want OS X to automatically connect to shares on your network, you can >>>>>> easily set this up in user preferences. So, I see no accessibility >>>>>> issue here. It’s possible however that I’m not understanding what you >>>>>> are referring to, but in any event I fail to see how this one thing >>>>>> could impact the usability of OS X for blind people to the extent that >>>>>> one would email Tim Cook. >>>>>> 4. Your subject is quality of osx with voiceover for people with >>>>>> dissablities. However, I don’t see how iWork compatibility with MS >>>>>> office has anything to do spasifically with blind people being able to >>>>>> use OS X. >>>>>> 5. With regard to manipulating the mouse with vo, there are some valid >>>>>> concerns that need to be addressed, but emailing Tim Cook is not the >>>>>> correct way to do that. I think it should also be said that flooding >>>>>> Apple with invalid complaints will increase the risk that the valid ones >>>>>> will go unnoticed or be ignored. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, it’s good to hope for and expect new innovations including ones >>>>>> for disabilities, but it is also necessary to egknolege what has been >>>>>> done which I think is considerable and to be willing to make good use of >>>>>> what we have. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 11, 2015, at 4:38 PM, William Windels <william.wind...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:william.wind...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am writing to you since the progress of the accessibility features are >>>>>> really pour in the last releases of osx 10.10.2. >>>>>> The mac is still missing some important features against windows with a >>>>>> commercial screenreader, and this after more 6 years of voiceover as >>>>>> built-in screenreader. >>>>>> Ok, voiceover is still a free, built-in screenreader but on windows , >>>>>> there are 2 free screenreader for the windows platform that are better >>>>>> in some cases than voiceover. >>>>>> >>>>>> Braille is still very basicnin osx: >>>>>> Some daily problems I discover with voiceover: >>>>>> I can’t follow courses with only braille output (without speech) during >>>>>> colleges. >>>>>> I mean: there is some important information missing on the braille >>>>>> display that’s only available with speech. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is missing: >>>>>>>> 1- no option for word wrapping: this can be useful for fast reading >>>>>>>> (loudly); >>>>>>>> 2- no different modes line, structured, speech (like in jaws): >>>>>>>> specialy structured mode in jaws is configurable, type of controls is >>>>>>>> shown, interaction-levels could be shown on this way. >>>>>>>> It’s e.g. very frustrating if you are in a text area and you can read >>>>>>>> all with the braille-line but you can’t edit or simply move the cursor >>>>>>>> to any position that is visible on the braille display. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3- to know if quicknav is on/off before moving isn’t possible also. >>>>>>>> On this way , it’s very easy to lose your position in a text-area or a >>>>>>>> window. >>>>>>>> The quick-nav option has also some bugs in general but is sometimes >>>>>>>> very useful for navigation (and specially on a macbook). >>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4- In some cases, the text that’s in the voiceover cursor is (always) >>>>>>>> underlineed with dots 7-8. On this way , no other attributes are shown >>>>>>>> and the cursor isn’t shown. If dots 7,8 are turned off, the cursor >>>>>>>> isn’t visible at all and capitals aren’t shown also. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5- When i put the cursor on a letter in a text I delete a .(dot) sign >>>>>>>> on the left sign of the cursor and voiceover says sometimes something >>>>>>>> else. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> further braille bugs: >>>>>> cursor routing on the first sign of the braille-display: the text on the >>>>>> display is gone; >>>>>> when composing a message to multiple recipients , while the speech is >>>>>> saying correctly the contact that has the focus, the braille display >>>>>> isn’t following. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Further: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Some bugs since 10.9 aren’t fixed: >>>>>> the icons in the statusbar like the third party app dropbox can’t be >>>>>> accessed with voiceover from there. >>>>>> The drag and drop-function with voiceover is not improved since the >>>>>> introduction in osx 10.7 and gives not the same possibilities for blind >>>>>> users as for sighted users. >>>>>> The button to mount all external (network)-stations at once in finder is >>>>>> not accessible with voiceover; >>>>>> >>>>>> And some different points: >>>>>> Ibooks was basically accessible with voiceover after one update from osx >>>>>> 10.9 to osx 10.10. >>>>>> >>>>>> iWork’s is mainly accessible but is still missing some important >>>>>> compatibility options to work together with ms office. >>>>>> (most of the people that work in a administrative job, use windows with >>>>>> ms office). >>>>>> >>>>>> I still love the mac because of some intuïtive features like the >>>>>> trackpad with voiceover, time-machine, the possibility to maintain the >>>>>> system as blind user on my own. >>>>>> But , I don’t know if the newest features for blind users are good and >>>>>> innovative enough to spend that much money on. >>>>>> >>>>>> With so great financial results the last weeks that where announced from >>>>>> Apple, I should hope that more innovation is coming for people with >>>>>> disabilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> Keep on the work that Steve Jobs has started. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> William Windels >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Barry Hadder >>>>>> bhad...@gmail.com <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> Barry Hadder >>>> bhad...@gmail.com <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> Barry Hadder >>> bhad...@gmail.com <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> Barry Hadder >> bhad...@gmail.com <mailto:bhad...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 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