Hi Alex. Ooo nice. :-) I love my little MacBook but it needs more USBs. Although I'm afraid I'd be giving up my firewire port and I use that a lot too. I am going to look into getting a new keyboard. Had to get this wireless one as one of the VO keys on macbook's keyboard stopped working a few weeks ago. Thanks for the info. : smile : Best Wishes. Jenny
On 7/9/09, Alex Jurgensen <asquare...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > Genny, > > I have the BT Apple one without numpad, but there is also stand alone > numpads that may come in bt versions. > > For USB hubs, I have a bus powered four-port hub that is about three > inches by three inches if that. > > Cost: Apple BT keyboard: CAD $80; BT numpad: CAD $70-150; USB hub: CAD > $1.00-4.00; > > Regards, > Alex, > > > On 9-Jul-09, at 4:09 PM, Jenny Kennedy wrote: > >> >> Oh goodness. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to cause confusion. No. I >> thought I had read someplace on this list that soneone had thought num >> pad commander was getting scrapped. >> It isn't. Thank goodness because that's what I use now that I have a >> wireless keyboard connected to the macbook... >> >> This leads me to a question though. If SL is going to support >> bluetooth braille displays, would they or is there even, a bluetooth >> keyboard to buy? I'm thinking something along the lines of a small >> desktop sort of bluetooth keyboard. I like the wireless one but it >> takes up one of my two USB ports and my t-drive takes up the other >> when I'm in the bedroom... I need more usb ports and if I could >> scruntch my USB requirements I wouldn't have to look for such a large >> usb hub. >> Best wishes >> Jenny >> >> On 7/9/09, James & Nash <james.austin1...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Ah ok i understand now tahnk you >>> >>> James >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Alex Jurgensen" <asquare...@gmail.com> >>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 4:28 PM >>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>> >>> >>>> >>>> HI, >>>> >>>> No. The older Macbooks used to have a built-in Numpad overlay. The >>>> external numpads and esktop keyboard number pads still work in >>>> Leopard. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Alex, >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9-Jul-09, at 7:06 AM, James & Nash wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alex, are you saying that if I were to buy an ordinary MacBook >>>>> and i >>>>> attached a desktop keyboard to it, I would be unable to use the >>>>> numpad >>>>> commander. Is this also the case for MacBook Pro? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Alex Jurgensen" <asquare...@gmail.com> >>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:20 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI, >>>>>> >>>>>> They scrapped the number pad on the Macbooks,, but as far as >>>>>> anythingelse, I have not heard anyting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9-Jul-09, at 2:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jenny, what gave you the idea they would scrap the Numpad >>>>>>> Commander. >>>>>>> There is nothing that indicates there was any such plan. Did you >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> this somewhere or did someone tell you this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:54 AM, Jenny Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Okay hi. If I remember correctly the num pad commander was >>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> in SL. I thought I read in this thred that it was getting >>>>>>>> scrapped. >>>>>>>> But I don't think it is. >>>>>>>> I know we have to wait 'til September. But that doesn't make it >>>>>>>> easy. >>>>>>>> I think we shoould have demos of the accessibility features just >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> the sighted people get a peak at stuff. But good points have >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> made >>>>>>>> that WWDC is for developers. Although the keynote and demos >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> are made public. So I think it would be nice to have access >>>>>>>> demos. >>>>>>>> But >>>>>>>> understand they may not have enough people to do this or unaware >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> interest is out there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The windows access providers offer demos because that is their >>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>> thing. To move windows access. So of corse they will have demos. >>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>> has all sorts of stuff going on. I'm not mad about it or feel >>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>> lower class of users or anything. I think it is so awesome Apple >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> not only built in access but done such a steller job with what >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> have. It seems that they listen to us when we have trouble as do >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> developers of many software offerings for the mac. So I'm >>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>> cut >>>>>>>> them a little slack. >>>>>>>> Best wishes. >>>>>>>> Jenny >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/8/09, Marshall Scott <sc...@cvrti.utah.edu> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another thing to remember is that WWDC is not intended for the >>>>>>>>> general >>>>>>>>> public. You have to pay to get into the meeting and it's >>>>>>>>> primarily >>>>>>>>> intended for developers. Also, I believe that most of the >>>>>>>>> rest of >>>>>>>>> WWDC is under NDA. I've heard you can actually buy videos of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other sessions but I don't think they're inexpensive. >>>>>>>>> Marsh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't believe there is any problem putting your finger on >>>>>>>>>> it. I >>>>>>>>>> won't disagree that perhaps some demonstration of some >>>>>>>>>> features >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> not hurt and I encourage you to contact >>>>>>>>>> accessibil...@apple.com >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> make the suggestion. It is possible they simply have not >>>>>>>>>> considered >>>>>>>>>> this or it is also possible that do to ongoing efforts to >>>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> insure the enhancements are functioning properly, it may not >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>> to offer a demonstration. Also, it could even be there is >>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> enough staff to even put a demo together. I don't know exactly >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> number of folks dedicated to the accessibility of the os and >>>>>>>>>> apps, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> it may be an issue of resources. I don't disagree it would be >>>>>>>>>> nice >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> see accessibility get a bit more face-time like the other >>>>>>>>>> features >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the os. Where I have an issue is with statements that >>>>>>>>>> indicate an >>>>>>>>>> entitlement and therefore that is why I made the comments I >>>>>>>>>> did. I >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> understand and appreciate the desire to have a preview, we all >>>>>>>>>> want to >>>>>>>>>> know what's coming, but there may very well be reasons for >>>>>>>>>> why it >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> not happen. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 5:41 PM, Justin Harford wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I just got a look at this thread. It seems that, once again, >>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>>> ignorant of how we, as equal citizens with equal legal >>>>>>>>>>> responsibilities should view ourselves as apple customers. I >>>>>>>>>>> wonder >>>>>>>>>>> if someone might please educate me on what is wrong with the >>>>>>>>>>> proposition that we should have some sort of audio >>>>>>>>>>> demonstrations >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> upcoming apple accessibility developments. Please allow me >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> explain >>>>>>>>>>> myself. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course the idea that we are entitled to this information >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> blind people is completely ridiculous, but I still wonder >>>>>>>>>>> why no >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> is bothered that apple don't put out a demo of the technology >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>> to listen to. Scott you said >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "You are not entitled to know any more than your sighted >>>>>>>>>>> counterpart." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree. As it is, our sighted counterparts get to see live >>>>>>>>>>> demonstrations of the technologies in which they will invest >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> money. There was a snow-leopard demo at the last WWDC. When >>>>>>>>>>> Leopard >>>>>>>>>>> came out, there was also a WWDC demo and more demos on >>>>>>>>>>> apple's >>>>>>>>>>> website. When the iPhone 3gs came out, apple offered a >>>>>>>>>>> demonstration >>>>>>>>>>> on their website. When the iPod shuffle came out, apple >>>>>>>>>>> again >>>>>>>>>>> offered >>>>>>>>>>> a demo on their website. In all of these cases, perhaps with >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> exception of the shuffle and maybe the voice control on the >>>>>>>>>>> iPhone if >>>>>>>>>>> you count that as accessibility, there was no demonstration >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> VoiceOver. Of course, the blind as such a small customer >>>>>>>>>>> base >>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>> give apple no occasion to suffer itself to demonstrate VO >>>>>>>>>>> before >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> audience of WWDC developers and customers, who couldn't care >>>>>>>>>>> less, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> is putting up a little audio demonstration on their >>>>>>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>>>>>> page >>>>>>>>>>> really too much to ask? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is true. I'm not entitled to know anything more than my >>>>>>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>>>>>> counterpart, and I guess at this point, that is how things >>>>>>>>>>> are. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> sighted don't know how accessibility works under snow- >>>>>>>>>>> leopard, >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> I don't know. I know that snow-leopard offers the >>>>>>>>>>> capability to >>>>>>>>>>> watch >>>>>>>>>>> movies through finder icons, just as the sighted know. The >>>>>>>>>>> average >>>>>>>>>>> sighted joe does not care about accessibility improvements, >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> as I >>>>>>>>>>> don't care about watching movies through icons. Something >>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>>>>> wrong here, though I'm having trouble putting my finger on >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think that apple customers should be shown the things they >>>>>>>>>>> care >>>>>>>>>>> about. Some people care about photos on the mac, so they >>>>>>>>>>> show >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> Some people care about listening to music and watching >>>>>>>>>>> videos, >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> show it. Some people want to be productive in a business >>>>>>>>>>> setting >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> their macs, so they show productivity. Some people care >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> development tools, so they show those. In our case, we care >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> accessibility, why not show it, not because we are blind >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> looking for concessions or special treatment, but as >>>>>>>>>>> consumers >>>>>>>>>>> spending money on apple products. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have read the descriptions of snow leopard, and am pretty >>>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> I will buy a copy when it comes out, because the >>>>>>>>>>> descriptions on >>>>>>>>>>> apple's website are compelling enough. Even if accessibility >>>>>>>>>>> improvements prove to be minor or non-existent, the >>>>>>>>>>> improvements >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> speed and stability will make it worth the money. So, I >>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>>> the need to raise a scandal over the fact that I can't >>>>>>>>>>> legally >>>>>>>>>>> listen >>>>>>>>>>> to an audio demonstration of VoiceOver 3.0. No problem. >>>>>>>>>>> Nevertheless, the fact that people wanting a little taste of >>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>> apple accessibility developments, like the demonstrations >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts get, are so brusquely talked down and at >>>>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>>>> hunted like criminals and reported to the authorities, >>>>>>>>>>> continues >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> elude me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the view I have of things now. As I stated before, >>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> becoming increasingly obvious that it is out-of-step with the >>>>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>>>> consensus, so I wonder if someone might not come forward and >>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>> why I am wrong. The perspectives and premises we hold in >>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>> profoundly govern the way we carry ourselves in the world. I >>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>> certainly would not want to continue harboring views which >>>>>>>>>>> cause >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> conduct to be excessively abrasive and unpalatable to those >>>>>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>>>>> me. That is why, without sarcasm, I'm asking for a change in >>>>>>>>>>> perspective for me and the others who ignorantly continue in >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> error. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards >>>>>>>>>>> Justin Harford >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, no, you as a blind person do not have a right to know >>>>>>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>>>>>> different than anyone else. You are not entitled to know any >>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>> your sighted counterpart. WHen Apple releases the >>>>>>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> Snow Leopard, you can read and make a decision as to >>>>>>>>>>>> whether or >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> you would want to upgrade, just as anyone else would. Being >>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> not extend any special entitlements and any violation of the >>>>>>>>>>>> NDA >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> was signed is not only breaking a contract between you and >>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> whomever you entered into the agreement with, it also >>>>>>>>>>>> jeopardizes >>>>>>>>>>>> future involvement in other projects. Point is you agreed >>>>>>>>>>>> to a >>>>>>>>>>>> contract and knowing the terms and conditions of that >>>>>>>>>>>> contract, >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> are legally bound and obligated to comply with the >>>>>>>>>>>> agreement. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fair enough though we are all blind and have a right to >>>>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>> be included in my view >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 19:11, Alex Jurgensen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Red flag, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are moving into grey ares. Please keep the posts NDA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> compliant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7-Jul-09, at 10:46 AM, Justin Harford wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:13 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I meant to say was I am not sure if voice over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with voices in italian, greek, arabic, russian polish, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we are still locked down to using acapella >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 18:07, Koumanova Rostislava wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i did not understand this post. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i know that you have to buy the foreign languages. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Il giorno 07/lug/09, alle ore 18:06, william lomas ha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scritto: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it says on the site the quickstart is localised in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eighteen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with nine new ones and with the voices you can hear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but i hope that the eighteen or so work with pre- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> defined >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foreign >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 16:51, Simon Cavendish wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O yes, I entirely agree. They have always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledged >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure they are trying to do their best in Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't be without my Mac now. No regrets switching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best wishes, Simon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 16:44, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear what you're saying Simon. To Apple's credit, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledged my messages and have offered support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like and would continue to use Windows for things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> miss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why I'm going to purchase a new one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Simon Cavendish" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <simon.cavend...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:34 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been e-mailing Apple accessibility regarding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> providing a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broader support in refreshable Braille for other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snow Leopard is going to bring this aspect to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefit from it. It would certainly accelerate my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind altogether. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best wishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 11:50, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well on the Snow Leopard page there is a host of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I remember reading that something - it may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over - was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> localized in about 40 different languages. But I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. However, if you can some way implement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRLTTY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may get native foreign language Braille >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based, so this should not be too difficult. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "william lomas" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lomaswill...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:39 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there a complete list of new features? i.e. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .do we get new language voices i wonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . new braille support in other alnguages? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i guess we will not know these details really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 11:29, James & Nash wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It sounds like Snow Leopard is an upgrade. Is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a copy of 10.5 which I bought last year so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be any problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Howell" <s.how...@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:25 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Voice Over in Snow Leopard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe so, but it will be worth upgrading and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unreal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't make much since to skip this upgrade. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beyond accessibility to upgrade. I can guarantee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very small price to pay for the improvements and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have considered or realized. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:47 AM, william lomas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i doubt we get new voices except maybe the ones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going to wait to upgrade i think, what I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UPgrading won't give us for example, access to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point in me upgrading since a lot of sites I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation which adobe have not yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorporated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safari or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other web browsers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2009, at 02:53, Jenny Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yay! I'm very very glad to hear this wonderful >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bummed I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't have a fancy trackpad. I have heard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gestures just sound so cool and fun. I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old tech. LOL I hope to get an iPhone in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to wait 'til then to try gestures. Unless my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens first. But as this one is still fairly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know by the time it comes time for me to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they'll of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come up with many more new and cool things. : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smiley : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can't wait 'til SL comes out. I know it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds so awesome. Am keen to hear any new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the UK voices. The best thing would be a UK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breths and all. I still think that's uber cool >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny, first only the Aluminum MacBooks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trackpad unless Apple upgrades the MacBook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aluminum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models are now referred to as the MacBook Pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine on your model. The most significant >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel processor since the Power PC chips, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G4/G5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines will not be supported by SL. I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recommend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2Gb ram, but 1Gb will get the job done. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commands, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the trackpad are the same commands you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO. It is another means to interact with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the os >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to say what the future holds for such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trackpad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VO. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point is that if you have heard the iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demos, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of how the trackpad could behave and a little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to speculate what Apple could possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, have no fear and prepare to upgrade, it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Jenny Kennedy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay. So am I to understand that the macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that has this fancy mousepad thing? I got my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 08 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it is the little white one. I adore it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SL to come out. Will SL even work at all on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sort >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macbook? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the os will work but will VO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fancy mousepad thing? Are there keyboard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shortcuts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doable with the mousepad? Sorry to be so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abrupt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gotta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any answers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best wishes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/09, Claude Renaud <cldren...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello James, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sunday, July 5, 2009, 12:31:19 PM, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN> Hi everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JN> I've been reading the new VO features >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leopard. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where di you read this please ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Claude Renaud >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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