On 2016-12-09, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Le 07/12/2016 à 18:49, Guenter Milde a écrit :
>> The current behaviour of "insert-quote" LFUN is usually called "smart
>> quotes". This can be done without Quote insets.
> Sure. What the Quote inset brings us, as Juergen pointed out already, is
> some semantics. But it is not semantics that we really exploit now.
Yes, this is why I asked whether we could simplify LyX by using Unicode
instead of an inset or want to keep the inset for future wishlist
features.
If the decision is to keep the inset, I have some suggestions (see below).
>> Only if we want to keep the type of quotes configurable also after
>> insertion, "dynamic" Quote insets are required.
>> But even then, the existing "static" Quote insets should be converted to
>> Unicode in the source files with lyx2lyx.
> I am not so sure about that.
Nor am I any more.
> The example of inner spacein french quotes is interesting in this
> repect. Sure, we can take the lazy approach and add inde spaces by
> hand.
I would not add the spaces by hand but via the quote-insert function.
The quote style determines what is inserted:
1. set the quote-style to "french"
2. press " (Shift-2 on my keyboard)
(BTW: should there be spaces also with single quillemets? Polyglossia with
LuaTeX adds them, Babel only adds spaces to double ones.)
> This lead french text to be full of ugly grey
> rectangles (the spaces) on screen in word processors.
Not in my LyX, there the space has the same background color as the rest.
> But it is not really a quote and a space. In some sense the space is
> part of the quote, like the spacing in math typesetting.
With my idea of inserting quote and space via "quote-insert", this would
them be 2 characters, i.e. deleting would require 2 keypresses ...
With a quote inset you can delete this in one press.
OTOH, you can search for a text part with quoted words if the quotes are
characters but not if they are insets.
> And pardon me for failing to be impressed by the modernity of people
> having unicode keyboards (how many keys does your keyboard have?)
105
> and selection of a character in a list or 65535 others in some GUI
> where I have to guess what is the category of the character I am
> looking for.
In my text-editor, I search in the "Unicode 9.0.0 final names list" which is
just 48771 lines long.
But as I said above, I won't abadon the quote-insert LFUN and its "smart
quotes" feature, where one common keybinding can be used for all types of
typographical quotes.
In case the quote inset is to stay:
Suggestion for an improved Quote inset
======================================
Arguments and values
level: primary # "regular" (in English double) quotes
secondary # "inner" (in English single) quotes
function: opening # left in LTR and right in RTL languages
closing # right in LTR and left in RTL languages
style: default # use document-wide setting (\quote_language)
# auto # use language-dependent style
straight # or neutral or dumb ASCII quotes ("" '')
english #
german
...
* values can be changed via context menu
* "style" describes sets of 4 strings for primary-opening,
primary-closing, secondary-opening, secondary-closing, e.g.
'german': ('„', '“', '‚', '‘'),
'french': ('« ', ' »', '‹ ', ' ›'), # with narrow no-break space
...
* use Unicode characters for GUI rendering and export (copy to external,
HTML export, LaTeX export)
* visual clue (color, frame, or similar) in the GUI to mark it as inset.
Günter
